Do you support abortion? A simple yes or no will suffice, but feel free to expand.
And if you really think it is none of your business, then why are you posting about it on an abortion thread? Normally when I think something is none of my business, I don't comment about it at all.
You have asked me several questions this evening. To which are you referring in this post?
I hope that you are right and that they drive that point home. I hear all to often about "safe sex" and to me, that sends the wrong impression to these young people.
The phrase "safe sex" is sorely abused. Maybe it should be called "Safer Sex". Any vaginal sex between a male and a female can end up in pregnancy regardless of contraceptives. Any other type of sex runs the risk of STD regardless of the type of protection involved.
I don't think I have a say in what a woman does with her body or her fetus, so obviously that means that I can't "support" it as that would be making it my business.
Do I think it's a good thing?
no.
it's an awful thing. But there are many awful things people have to deal with and a lot of them are none of my business.
Roe vs. Wade is the current law of the land when it comes to abortion
Roe v Wade overturned a law that used our government to make it other people's business. It insures that people can't use our government to make it their business.
In case you were unaware of the fact; there have been a lot of laws that over turned previous laws. Ever heard of the 18th Amendment? It got over turned by the government.
In case you were unaware of the fact; there have been a lot of laws that over turned previous laws. Ever heard of the 18th Amendment? It got over turned by the government.
how many times do I have to say this?
it was the repeal of a government decision. the only way to get rid of a government decision is with a government decision.
you didn't say anything about asking questions, you said "get on a message board and discuss it". If you aren't going to discuss it, why are you there?
That is part of the problem, Damon. The senses have been numbed over the years. It is sort of like the Holocaust pictures and reports. It was quite a shock to the world when it first was found out, but the bar was then raised quite high. Now, when we hear of the horrors that happened in Rwanda or even the Iraqi mass graves, it does not evoke the same emotions as it did during the second World War. There is little anger against the U.N. for letting this happen and turning a blind eye. There is also little anger over our government turning a blind eye to the deaths of the unborn. It truely is sad.
No, not quite. They were used in similar fashion to how Rich is using them.
Is someone who is so severely retarded that they cannot care for themselves still a human being?
yes, assuming they have been born
Let me ask you this, Damon, if tomarrow there is undisputed scientific proof of life beginning at conception, how would you feel knowing that you did nothing to stop abortions now?
there isn't though, and most likely, never will be, because the definition of life is a subjective one. Which is why abortion should be a personal choice, not a standardized one
So basically you just want less abortions without giving kids the proper tools to combat teen pregnancies.
Won't work, especially with the majority of parents today
That is why I wonder if all this school teaching, free condoms, etc. is such a good idea. Perhaps it is encouraging the behavior that it is meant to control?
Kids are going to have sex whether they are educated or not.
"I'm sorry Rick. I know that you are trying to find a middle ground in this, but I do not believe that there is one."
Well I do. As I said before, functioning societies make decisions like this all the time. But since the issue has beomce hijacked by extremes on both sides, a middle ground approach which would reduce the number of abortions and open up the process for dialogue instead of shouting is probably seen as more evil than the current state of affairs.
As I said before, functioning societies make decisions like this all the time. They do. But make no mistake allowing any abortion is an immoral choice.
If the abortion issue had been put to a vote instead of decreed by judges, the people would decide and there wouldn't be so much arguing about it.
Judicial activism takes decisions out of the hands of the people. Instead of letting voters decide, some groups just try to find judges who will rule their way. In my mind, anyone who does that knows damn well the vote will never go his way so he gets it undemocratically.
The issue never goes away because the people never got a voice.
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:09pm
Ok.
I'll admit that I may have taken a few liberties.
Do you support abortion? A simple yes or no will suffice, but feel free to expand.
And if you really think it is none of your business, then why are you posting about it on an abortion thread? Normally when I think something is none of my business, I don't comment about it at all.
You have asked me several questions this evening. To which are you referring in this post?
I disagree.
I hope that you are right and that they drive that point home. I hear all to often about "safe sex" and to me, that sends the wrong impression to these young people.
Grandpa Dan Zachary 5/4/04 9:16pm
The phrase "safe sex" is sorely abused. Maybe it should be called "Safer Sex". Any vaginal sex between a male and a female can end up in pregnancy regardless of contraceptives. Any other type of sex runs the risk of STD regardless of the type of protection involved.
no.
I don't think I have a say in what a woman does with her body or her fetus, so obviously that means that I can't "support" it as that would be making it my business.
Do I think it's a good thing?
no.
it's an awful thing. But there are many awful things people have to deal with and a lot of them are none of my business.
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:27pm
Ok. If you truely believe it is none of your business, then why are you on an abortion board posting about it?
You made it your business with your 1st post on here IMO.
because other people think it's their business.
I'm not here talking about anyone in specific, nor would I be passing any judgement on someone faced with such an awful decision.
I mean, your sex life is none of my business, but that doesn't mean I can't talk about sex with people, does it?
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:35pm
Why do you care what other people make their business on a subject that is, by your own admitance, none of your business?
because other people are advocating using my government to make it their business.
do I need to explain how "none of my business" works?
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:38pm
Roe vs. Wade is the current law of the land when it comes to abortion. Your government made it that way.
Roe v Wade overturned a law that used our government to make it other people's business. It insures that people can't use our government to make it their business.
do I need to explain how "none of my business" works?
Please do. Because when I truely feel something is "none of my business", I don't get on message boards and discuss it.
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:41pm
Was still a government decision now wasn't it?
really?
what do you consider "none of your business"?
it was the repeal of a government decision.
do you consider my sexual preferences your business?
do you ever talk about sex?
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:43pm
what do you consider "none of your business"?
What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes to name one.
so, you never discuss sex with anyone?
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:43pm
It was still a government decision now wasn't it?
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:45pm
Nope. I've never asked a single person about their sex life.
no...it was the repeal of a government decision.
the only way to get rid of a government decision is with a government decision.
it's a nice little rhetorical argument you got there, but it's bullshit and you know it.
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:44pm
do you consider my sexual preferences your business?
Nope.
and I've never asked a single person about their abortion.
have you ever discussed sex?
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:47pm
I see.
You don't think the SCOTUS ruling on Roe vs. Wade as a government decision.
Ok then.
it was the repeal of a government decision.
the only way to get rid of a government decision is with a government decision.
it's a nice little rhetorical argument you got there, but it's bullshit and you know it.
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:49pm
In case you were unaware of the fact; there have been a lot of laws that over turned previous laws. Ever heard of the 18th Amendment? It got over turned by the government.
how many times do I have to say this?
it was the repeal of a government decision. the only way to get rid of a government decision is with a government decision.
Roe v Wade didn't make abortion it's business...it prevented the government from making it it's business.
crabgrass 5/4/04 9:54pm
It was still a government decision now wasn't it?
Look, this is going no where. I'm not going to comment on it any further.
one more time...
it was the repeal of a government decision. the only way to get rid of a government decision is with a government decision.
Rich T "Doin' it Yourself" 5/4/04 10:03pm
crabgrass 5/4/04 10:16pm
And?
Come on Crabs. Even you can do better than that. Did you see me ask a single question there?
you didn't say anything about asking questions, you said "get on a message board and discuss it". If you aren't going to discuss it, why are you there?
now, can you admit there is a difference between discussing a general subject and making someone's personal decisions your business?
crabgrass 5/4/04 10:22pm
I'll conceed that point.
So you are neither for or against abortion. But you are discussing it on principle.
It's like this Crabs. I think abortion is murder. But I also think that it is the mother's choice.
If it came up to a public vote, I'd vote pro-choice.
The mother's that opt for abortion will have to answer for that come judgement day.
The bible teaches judge not lest yea be judged.
I am quilty of judging and I will have to answer for that when I die and go before GOD.
That is part of the problem, Damon. The senses have been numbed over the years. It is sort of like the Holocaust pictures and reports. It was quite a shock to the world when it first was found out, but the bar was then raised quite high. Now, when we hear of the horrors that happened in Rwanda or even the Iraqi mass graves, it does not evoke the same emotions as it did during the second World War. There is little anger against the U.N. for letting this happen and turning a blind eye. There is also little anger over our government turning a blind eye to the deaths of the unborn. It truely is sad.
No, not quite. They were used in similar fashion to how Rich is using them.
Is someone who is so severely retarded that they cannot care for themselves still a human being?
yes, assuming they have been born
Let me ask you this, Damon, if tomarrow there is undisputed scientific proof of life beginning at conception, how would you feel knowing that you did nothing to stop abortions now?
there isn't though, and most likely, never will be, because the definition of life is a subjective one. Which is why abortion should be a personal choice, not a standardized one
Grandpa Dan Zachary 5/4/04 8:51pm
So basically you just want less abortions without giving kids the proper tools to combat teen pregnancies.
Won't work, especially with the majority of parents today
That is why I wonder if all this school teaching, free condoms, etc. is such a good idea. Perhaps it is encouraging the behavior that it is meant to control?
Kids are going to have sex whether they are educated or not.
Rich T 5/4/04 9:06pm
excellent points
Not if you don't go before god Rich.
"I'm sorry Rick. I know that you are trying to find a middle ground in this, but I do not believe that there is one."
Well I do. As I said before, functioning societies make decisions like this all the time. But since the issue has beomce hijacked by extremes on both sides, a middle ground approach which would reduce the number of abortions and open up the process for dialogue instead of shouting is probably seen as more evil than the current state of affairs.
Rick's ideology is one I have supported for a long time
Cornered? No I find you and your position on abortion disgusting and immoral.
Kids are going to have sex whether they are educated or not.
It isn't surprising that the immoral likes of you have no faith in people.
As I said before, functioning societies make decisions like this all the time. They do. But make no mistake allowing any abortion is an immoral choice.
allowing people like bodine to procreate is an immoral choice
"No. Those are pictures of reality, whether you like it or not. "
Doesn't make them any less out of line.
They are not out of line. Look at them and see what you allow to happen by your support.
allowing people like bodine to procreate is an immoral choice
I knew all along you were a fascist.
I understand your immoral position and it defines your character.
but it is not immoral position, at least for a utilitarian.
Cornered? No I find you and your position on abortion disgusting and immoral.
so instead of debating you throw around words your preacher taught you.
you are useless in any rational discussion
There is no reason to even associate with the likes of you. You are disgusting filth.
yet you still respond
You don't know anything about morality you perverted SOB.
out of the big three moral doctorines, which do you ascribe to?
It isn't surprising that the immoral likes of you have no faith in people.
so teenagers aren't going to have sex? everyone has an idea about what sex is before sex ed.
They are not out of line. Look at them and see what you allow to happen by your support.
we could just as easily post pictures from any war you support
I was mimicking you.
If the abortion issue had been put to a vote instead of decreed by judges, the people would decide and there wouldn't be so much arguing about it.
Judicial activism takes decisions out of the hands of the people. Instead of letting voters decide, some groups just try to find judges who will rule their way. In my mind, anyone who does that knows damn well the vote will never go his way so he gets it undemocratically.
The issue never goes away because the people never got a voice.
No, constitutionality is not the duty of the people