The difference is those guys plead GUILTY and got CONVICTED, Clinton lied, plead guilty, and got a slap on the wrist by our unbiased Senate. If you or I go to court and plea guilty to something, I bet the judge doesn't say "well, I guess you said you were sorry; no punishment is needed".
Oh and yes, ALL those guys on the list are good AMERICANS, even Clinton. They all got broke the law, anybody here have a speeding ticket? Breaking the law doesn't make you a "bad american".
She couldn't. The "except in cases of impeachment" applies. But if it were possible to pardon him then yes. Receiving a pardon means there was no crime.
That is the sole power of the President. If you receive the pardon, the crime never happened. Does it mean that some slime bags get off without a hitch sometimes, yes. But I like the power of the pardon, its a show of mercy and is beyond the law.
That's why the framers trusted this power to the President. It is supposed to be an honorable position held by an honorable person. Even if a President abuses the power of the pardon, the pardon itself stands.
After Trent Lott, R-Miss., made remarks widely perceived as stupid and racially insensitive, his career as Senate majority leader went supernova. Question: What happens now to Sen. Patty Murray's, D-Wash., career, after statements made at a Washington high school, in which she offered her analysis of Osama bin Laden's popularity and the Arab world's anti-Americanism?
"We've got to ask," said Murray, "why is this man so popular around the world? Why are people so supportive of him in many countries that are riddled with poverty?" The answer, according to Murray, lies in bin Laden's charity, generosity and concern. For bin Laden has been "out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day care facilities, building health care facilities, and the people are extremely grateful. We haven't done that. How would they look at us today if we had been there helping them with some of that rather than just being the people who are going to bomb in Iraq and go to Afghanistan?"
Really?
Take Egypt, where 76 percent view America unfavorably. America gives substantial aid to Egypt, nearly $2 billion a year, making Egypt the second largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid.
America used its military to save Muslims in Kuwait, Somalia, Kosovo and Bosnia. Yet in a post-Gulf War poll, 74 percent of Kuwaitis called Osama bin Laden a hero, with 36 percent calling the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks justified.
Osama bin Laden builds infrastructure, schools and day care facilities? Well, yes, but he also supported regimes like the Taliban and the Sudanese government in exchange for safe havens for his terrorist training camps. In the Sudan, bin Laden receives income from the drug trade, a business that utilizes slave labor. According to Brig. Katumba Wamala, commander of the Ugandan forces fighting the rebels, "We know that large numbers of children abducted by the Lord's Resistance Army are being sold into slavery in Sudan. Bin Laden is the main buyer of these children. He has very big marijuana farms in Sudan and he buys the children as slave labourers." Schools? The senator, perhaps, means madrasas, or down-with-the-infidel-hate-America indoctrination centers.
The scope of Murray's ignorance, naivete and dangerously foolish worldview simply leaves one speechless. The senator refuses to recognize flat-out contempt, assumes that with good money and a kind heart, one can simply melt the hearts of terrorists who, in their own words, urge the destruction of America.
A post-Sept. 11th poll showed that much of the Arab world simply despises America, a view unlikely to change no matter the American hand-wringing, self-flagellation and "atonement." Under Sen. Murray's theory of the world, President George W. Bush simply writes a check, and, voila, hostilities cease. Why didn't he think of that?
So call Sen. Lott's "racially insensitive" remarks -- made at a birthday celebration -- stupid. But Sen. Patty Murray's romantic, thoughtless brand of brain-dead, let's-all-hold-hands-together-and-sing worldview truly threatens national security.
"This has nothing, nothing to do with race and everything to do with the ideology of a few liberal Democrats who oppose a man who has bipartisan support," said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer.
because Jones' lawyers, before he was questioned, enforced a definition of "sex" on Clinton that said "sex" meant intercourse. Under that definition, he didn't lie.
Bill committed perjury, subornation of perjury and obstruction of justice. Deal with it and move on with your life.
about a blow job...I've given it up a long time ago...
but your denial about that happened in the basement of the Reagan WHite House is really amazing
a BUNCH of guys can plead guilty to all of the above and you act like it never happened (or worse, you think that subverting the Constitution is a good thing), but a guy lies about getting a blowjob and you think it's the worst thing in the world.
Robert C. McFarlane: pleaded guilty to four counts of withholding information from Congress;
Oliver L. North: convicted of altering and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity, and aiding and abetting in the obstruction of Congress
John M. Poindexter: convicted of conspiracy, false statements, destruction and removal of records, and obstruction of Congress
Richard V. Secord: pleaded guilty to making false statements to Congress
Albert Hakim: pleaded guilty to supplementing the salary of North
Thomas G. Clines: convicted of four counts of tax-related offenses for failing to report income from the operations
Carl R. Channell: pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States
Richard R. Miller: pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States
Clair E. George: convicted of false statements and perjury before Congress
Duane R. Clarridge: indicted on seven counts of perjury and false statements; pardoned before trial by President Bush
Alan D. Fiers, Jr.: pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress
Joseph F. Fernandez: indicted on four counts of obstruction and false statements; case dismissed when Attorney General Richard L. Thornburgh refused to declassify information needed for his defense
Elliott Abrams: pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress
Caspar W. Weinberger: charged with four counts of false statements and perjury; pardoned before trial by President Bush.
Depends on what the meaning of the word is,....is.
Perjury: To knowingly give FALSE or MISLEADING testimony under oath.
If you can't admit that he didn't there's no point. If the sky is blue but the other person insists it's magenta while looking directly at it there's not much chance for reasoned debate.
So apparently you can pick and choose when it's o.k to lie under oath just because you don't like it. I wasn't very political in the Iran Contra days but do I think guns for hostages was a good deal. Especially if you were one of the hostages. However!, if they lied under oath I wouldn't excuse it just because he's my "guy"! I don't think it's o.k anytime to lie under oath no matter whom is doing it nor which party they are from. You apparently don't have the same problem because he was from your team. That's fine and the double standard is well noted. I also think Lott should have got the boot by the way and that was for mere words and he was under no oath it was merely a horrid thing to say. I'd rather be principaled than look the other way because they might do some other things I agree with.
Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations
John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China
Paula Jonesgate:
William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him sign a statement admitting to his deception
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
Education: 1 2 3 4 (Circle highest grade completed) If you obtained a higher education what was your major? [_] 5th grade [_] 6th grade
Do you [_] own or [_] rent your mobile home?
Vehicles you own and where you keep them: ___ Total number of vehicles you own ___ Number of vehicles that still crank ___ Number of vehicles in front yard ___ Number of vehicles in back yard ___ Number of vehicles on cement blocks
Age you started drivin ______ (If over 10 are you still slow lerrnin ? [_] Yes [_] No)
Firearms you own and where you keep them: ____ truck ____ kitchen ____ bedroom ____ bathroom/outhouse ____ shed ____ pawnshop
Model and year of your pickup: 194_ 195_ 196_ 197_
Do you have a gun rack? [_] Yes [_] No; If no, please explain:
Newspapers/magazines you subscribe to: [_] The National Enquirer [_] The Globe [_] TV Guide [_] Soap Opera Digest [_] Guns and Ammo [_] Bassmasters
___ Number of times you've seen a UFO ___ Number of times you've seen Elvis ___ Number of times you've seen Elvis in a UFO
How often do you bathe: [_] Weekly [_] Monthly [_] Not Applicable
How many teeth in YOUR mouth? ___ Color of teeth: [_] Yellow [_] Brownish-Yellow [_] Brown [_] Black [_] N/A
Brand of chewing tobacco or snuff you prefer: [_] Red-Man [_] Skoal [_] Levi-Garrett [_] Copenhagen [_] Days Work [_] Garrett Sweet Snuff [_] Cannon Ball
How far is your home from a paved road? [_] 1 mile [_] 2 miles [_] don't know
The central question in this debate is not whether government should decide how much money it will allow us to keep. Rather, it is how much of our money we will allow the government to spend.
We don't teach such things anymore. Instead, we (or at least those institutions reflecting the Democrats' philosophy) teach that anyone who is rich is robbing the poor, implying they came by their money dishonestly.
We teach that the poor are victims who cannot be expected to become un-poor, much less rich. Never should they have faith they can free themselves from their present condition, lest they not need Democratic programs and thus start voting for Republicans whose policies are more likely to emancipate the poor from their poverty, along with their own initiative.
The difference is those guys plead GUILTY and got CONVICTED, Clinton lied, plead guilty, and got a slap on the wrist by our unbiased Senate. If you or I go to court and plea guilty to something, I bet the judge doesn't say "well, I guess you said you were sorry; no punishment is needed".
Oh and yes, ALL those guys on the list are good AMERICANS, even Clinton. They all got broke the law, anybody here have a speeding ticket? Breaking the law doesn't make you a "bad american".
THEY PLEAD GUILTY OF LYING TO CONGRESS
and if you didn't like the sentance Bill got, a lot of those other guys got...some of those guys got pardoned by Bush before they even went to trial.
a reasonable person can interpret what some of those guys did a treason.
as subversion of the Constitution
as head of Homeland Security?
these guys didn't get a slap on the wrist, they got REWARDED...for undermining the Constitution of The United States.
It is within the Constitution to pardon:
The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
– Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution.
Speaking of Pardons......... :)
what's your point?
I'm not accusing Bush of breaking the Constituion by pardoning someone
These guys still did what they did
If Hillary became President and pardoned Bill, would you admit he didn't lie? Of course not.
She couldn't. The "except in cases of impeachment" applies. But if it were possible to pardon him then yes. Receiving a pardon means there was no crime.
So, you are saying that the Constitution doesn't allow the Senate to give a slap on the wrist
did they go back in time and change history or what?
so...let me get this straight...
blowjob? happened
Iran-Contra? didn't happen
wow...how can you not win?
That is the sole power of the President. If you receive the pardon, the crime never happened. Does it mean that some slime bags get off without a hitch sometimes, yes. But I like the power of the pardon, its a show of mercy and is beyond the law.
so, you can commit treason and if one of your gang can get elected, the law no longer exists?
swell
That's why the framers trusted this power to the President. It is supposed to be an honorable position held by an honorable person. Even if a President abuses the power of the pardon, the pardon itself stands.
Crabby, I'm one conservative that was disgusted with the Iran Contra affair.
jethro bodine "Iran Contra" 3/20/02 11:42am
I'm still just as disgusted with Clinton.
Hey Crabby, When is it o.k to lie under oath ?
THEY PLEAD GUILTY OF LYING TO CONGRESS
What's the big deal? they lie to us all the time.
treason...what's the big deal?
well, it's not a blow job.
I know of no treason committed by anyone in the Reagan administration.
waging a covert war without letting Congress know about it is treasonous. subverting the Constitution is treasonous.
The US wasn't waging war only assisting freedom fighters and protecting national security.
Tell that to the campsino peasants whose villages were shot up by the brave freedom fighters.
I don't think the villagers cared much about the politics of the Contras. But they probably would have liked them to stop shooting up their village.
war is hell.
Think all of that skullduggery was necessary in Nicaragua, jethro?
Do you think it wasn't? If so, why wasn't it?
Hey Crabby, When is it o.k to lie under oath ?
Maybe he's waiting for you to put him under oath first?
It's a question about being under oath not taking one.
BTW, TMK that was very Jethroian of you :)
Crap. Now I feel like I have to take myself behind the woodshed and teach myself a lesson.
If we were only more like Bin Laden.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/le20030109.shtml
"This has nothing, nothing to do with race and everything to do with the ideology of a few liberal Democrats who oppose a man who has bipartisan support," said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75116,00.html
define "lie"
because Jones' lawyers, before he was questioned, enforced a definition of "sex" on Clinton that said "sex" meant intercourse. Under that definition, he didn't lie.
Ask Scaife when it's okay to tell the truth
I wonder what Clinton had ever done to Scaife to make him want to bring him down?
give it up crabs. Bill committed perjury, subornation of perjury and obstruction of justice. Deal with it and move on with your life.
about a blow job...I've given it up a long time ago...
but your denial about that happened in the basement of the Reagan WHite House is really amazing
a BUNCH of guys can plead guilty to all of the above and you act like it never happened (or worse, you think that subverting the Constitution is a good thing), but a guy lies about getting a blowjob and you think it's the worst thing in the world.
you think that a group of people lying to Congress, destroying evidence and waging an unConstitutional war is the same as lying about a blowjob?
Hey Luv2, when IS it okay to lie?
Robert C. McFarlane: pleaded guilty to four counts of withholding information from Congress;
Oliver L. North: convicted of altering and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity, and aiding and abetting in the obstruction of Congress
John M. Poindexter: convicted of conspiracy, false statements, destruction and removal of records, and obstruction of Congress
Richard V. Secord: pleaded guilty to making false statements to Congress
Albert Hakim: pleaded guilty to supplementing the salary of North
Thomas G. Clines: convicted of four counts of tax-related offenses for failing to report income from the operations
Carl R. Channell: pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States
Richard R. Miller: pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States
Clair E. George: convicted of false statements and perjury before Congress
Duane R. Clarridge: indicted on seven counts of perjury and false statements; pardoned before trial by President Bush
Alan D. Fiers, Jr.: pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress
Joseph F. Fernandez: indicted on four counts of obstruction and false statements; case dismissed when Attorney General Richard L. Thornburgh refused to declassify information needed for his defense
Elliott Abrams: pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress
Caspar W. Weinberger: charged with four counts of false statements and perjury; pardoned before trial by President Bush.
thanks for pointing out that Bush wasn't an honorable person and that he abused his power of pardon. I agree with that.
about a blow job...I've given it up a long time ago... Yeah that must be why you can't let it go.
you are the one who keeps bringing it up
what's to let go?
he finished his term, he's building his library
looks like life is good for ol Bill
for example...you didn't let it go here
I could go and find all the examples of where you keep bringing it up and not letting it go, but I don't have the years to spare
no, #$@*&^(!, you keep bringing it up. Now take a deep breath. Say everything will be fine if everyone does not love Bill. Now isn't that better?
no, in that example, we were taking about the Catholic church and you brought it up
I rarely ever think about it unless I talk to a guy like you who insists on shoving into the conversation every chance they get.
Hey Crabby, When is it o.k to lie under oath ?
Depends on what the meaning of the word is,....is.
Perjury: To knowingly give FALSE or MISLEADING testimony under oath.
If you can't admit that he didn't there's no point. If the sky is blue but the other person insists it's magenta while looking directly at it there's not much chance for reasoned debate.
So apparently you can pick and choose when it's o.k to lie under oath just because you don't like it. I wasn't very political in the Iran Contra days but do I think guns for hostages was a good deal. Especially if you were one of the hostages. However!, if they lied under oath I wouldn't excuse it just because he's my "guy"! I don't think it's o.k anytime to lie under oath no matter whom is doing it nor which party they are from. You apparently don't have the same problem because he was from your team. That's fine and the double standard is well noted. I also think Lott should have got the boot by the way and that was for mere words and he was under no oath it was merely a horrid thing to say. I'd rather be principaled than look the other way because they might do some other things I agree with.
AK Gov. Jim Guy Tucker - fraud felony convictions - 3 counts (Tucker resigned facing impeachment)
Jim McDougal - fraud and conspiracy felony convictions - 18 counts
Susan McDougal - felony - 4 counts (pardoned during Clinton's last minute pardongate payoffs)
William J. Marks Sr - conspiracy
Stephen Smith - conspiracy
Larry Kuca - Fraud
Neal Ainley - 2 misdemeanors for embezzlement
David Hale - guilty plea - conspiracy
Chris Wade - felony - Whitewater real-estate investor
John Haley - fraud
Robert Palmer - felony for conspiracy
Charles Matthews - guilty plea for bribery
Eugene Fitzhugh - Whitewater - bribery
Webster Hubbell - #2 ranking Justice Dept. Official - felony for embezzlement and fraud
John Latham - CEO of Madison Bank - bank fraud
Campaign Finance:
Johnny Chung - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China
Gene Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC
Nora Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC
Howard Glicken - guilty plea - 2 midemeanors - funneling foreign donations
Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations
John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China
Paula Jonesgate:
William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him sign a statement admitting to his deception
how many of those people worked in the White House?
the Jones lawyer set the definition.
it was a set-up
now, if you think it's okay to set up a President in order to try to remove him from office, again...we are talking about treason.
now, if you think it's okay to set up a President in order to try to remove him from office, again...we are talking about treason.
No you are not.
U.S. Constitution Art. III, sec.3 Para.1:
It's not Bills fault, he's a victim of his environment.
Arkansaw Drivers License Application
Plez compleet this paper, best ya can.
Last name: ________________
First name:
[_] Billy-Bob
[_] Billy-Joe
[_] Billy-Ray
[_] Billy-Jack
[_] Bubba
Age: ____ (if unsure, guess)
Sex: [_]M [_]F [_]None
Shoe Size: ____ Left ____ Right
Occupation:
[_] Farmer [_] Mechanic
[_] Janitor [_] Still Operator
[_] Un-employed
Spouse's Name: ______________________________
2nd Spouse's Name: __________________________
3rd Spouse's Name: __________________________
Lover's Name: _______________________________
2nd Lover's Name: ____________________________
Relationship with spouse:
[_] Sister
[_] Aunt
[_] Mother
[_] Cousin
[_] Daughter
[_] Pet
Number of children living in household: ___
Number of children living in shed: ___
Number of children that are yours: ___
Mama's Name: ____________________
Daddy's Name: ____________________
Education: 1 2 3 4 (Circle highest grade completed)
If you obtained a higher education what was your
major?
[_] 5th grade [_] 6th grade
Do you [_] own or [_] rent your mobile home?
Vehicles you own and where you keep them:
___ Total number of vehicles you own
___ Number of vehicles that still crank
___ Number of vehicles in front yard
___ Number of vehicles in back yard
___ Number of vehicles on cement blocks
Age you started drivin ______ (If over 10 are you
still slow lerrnin ? [_] Yes [_] No)
Firearms you own and where you keep them:
____ truck ____ kitchen
____ bedroom ____ bathroom/outhouse
____ shed ____ pawnshop
Model and year of your pickup: 194_ 195_ 196_ 197_
Do you have a gun rack?
[_] Yes [_] No; If no, please explain:
Newspapers/magazines you subscribe to:
[_] The National Enquirer [_] The Globe
[_] TV Guide [_] Soap Opera Digest
[_] Guns and Ammo [_] Bassmasters
___ Number of times you've seen a UFO
___ Number of times you've seen Elvis
___ Number of times you've seen Elvis in a UFO
How often do you bathe:
[_] Weekly
[_] Monthly
[_] Not Applicable
How many teeth in YOUR mouth? ___
Color of teeth:
[_] Yellow [_] Brownish-Yellow
[_] Brown [_] Black
[_] N/A
Brand of chewing tobacco or snuff you prefer:
[_] Red-Man [_] Skoal
[_] Levi-Garrett [_] Copenhagen
[_] Days Work [_] Garrett Sweet Snuff
[_] Cannon Ball
How far is your home from a paved road?
[_] 1 mile
[_] 2 miles
[_] don't know
Good Editorial
The central question in this debate is not whether government should decide how much money it will allow us to keep. Rather, it is how much of our money we will allow the government to spend.
We don't teach such things anymore. Instead, we (or at least those institutions reflecting the Democrats' philosophy) teach that anyone who is rich is robbing the poor, implying they came by their money dishonestly.
We teach that the poor are victims who cannot be expected to become un-poor, much less rich. Never should they have faith they can free themselves from their present condition, lest they not need Democratic programs and thus start voting for Republicans whose policies are more likely to emancipate the poor from their poverty, along with their own initiative.