America overall isn't as bright as people may think. We've discussed in other threads how public schools are not doing a very good job. If they were doing a good job, then we would have a nation that was collectively smarter and better informed. Think of some of the shows on tv. "Street Smarts" is based on how stupid some people are in real life. The "Jay-walking" segment on "The Tonight Show" is another part of television where they highlight some of America's stupidity. Listen to how some people talk, or read what they have to write and you can see how bad they grasp English and grammar. I also think that some Americans have a superiority complex, not only over non-Americans but also with regards to other Americans. They feel they are morally or intellectually superior to others. They feel they are right with pretty much every facet of their lives, and won't really consider other arguments or perspectives. There are some major issues that I disagree with Crabgrass on, but I don't think he's stupid. He has some interesting ideas and concepts. I just don't agree with some of his arguments or ideas. He keeps to discussion and debate though, in an intelligent manner. Jethro on the other hand has presented himself as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else on the boards. I don't know if I've ever seen him come close to saying he was wrong or considering someone else's views/perspectives to be valid. There can be some intelligent and civil debate with him, but eventually it turns to name-calling. I think with a medium like this, we can share information and ideas. We can make ourselves and our society better and smarter. I just don't see it happening though.
Jethro on the other hand has presented himself as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else on the boards. I don't know if I've ever seen him come close to saying he was wrong or considering someone else's views/perspectives to be valid. There can be some intelligent and civil debate with him, but eventually it turns to name-calling.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think. I am here to vent and at other times just to have fun. Sometimes they are one and the same. I don't belive that this board can serve any other purpose.
WAR ON TERROR Al-Qaida's doomsday warning to America New tape says next terror onslaught will obliterate memories of Sept. 11
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: September 7, 2003 11:15 p.m. Eastern
A new tape reportedly made by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida and broadcast on al-Arabiyya satellite TV channel threatens a terrorist onslaught against America so devastating it will surpass Sept. 11.
The message, dated Sept. 3, was broadcast today.
"We announce there will be new attacks inside and outside (the U.S.) which would make America forget the attacks of September 11," said an al-Qaida spokesman who identified himself as Abu Abd al-Rahman al-Najdi.
"We assure Muslims that al-Qaida ranks have doubled. ... Our casualties are nothing compared to our (good) conditions now. Our coming martyrdom operations will prove to you what we are saying," he added.
Washington said last week it was on alert for possible attacks by the militant group.
The speaker denied al-Qaida had been involved in the car bombing that killed Ayatollah Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, a leading Shia cleric, in Iraq last month.
"We strongly deny that al-Qaida had any hand in this bombing which killed Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, violated the sanctity of one of God's houses and killed innocent people," the speaker said on the tape. "Our highest aim is to fight the Americans and kill them everywhere on earth and drive them out of Palestine, the Arabian Peninsula and Iraq," he continued.
He accused the U.S. and Israel of orchestrating the attack on Hakim.
"We have no motives. Those who killed Baqr al-Hakim are the Americans and Jews. They wanted to get rid of him because they know that his loyalty was to Iran," he said.
In the tape, al-Qaida insisted bin Laden and Mullah Mohammad Omar, the ousted Taliban leader, were both alive and leading the battle against U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan.
FBI and Homeland Security officials warned last week the United States faces threat of attack from al-Qaida, saying it still targets Americans and has a presence in U.S. cities two years after the Sept. 11 attacks that killed about 3,000 people.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security issued an advisory saying it remained concerned about al-Qaida's "continued efforts to plan multiple attacks against the U.S. and U.S. interests overseas."
But the advisory, based on a review of intelligence ahead of the two-year anniversary of the attacks, said the department had no specific data on individual targets or dates for any attacks.
It's amazing what kind of press any Easterner gets by making a 'scary' tape with a camcorder he looted from inside of one of Sadam's blown up palaces. It's kind of like the jerk off who called in that false bomb threat yesterday. Cowards who like to see their actions in the press. I can't imagine why it continues to happen all the time. Can I do something about it now that I might know some organization might be out to harm us? Don't think so. The government needs to keep some things under wrap to save us from ourselves. The problem lies with where that line is.
The President vowed to stay the course, but noted that it is only recently that America has done so. “During the last few decades the terrorists grew bolder, believing if they hit America hard, America would retreat and back down.”
Perhaps the President had in mind al-Qaeda’s attack on the World Trade Center in 1993, when President Clinton and Al Gore backed down.
Perhaps he had in mind al-Qaeda’s attack on American troops in Somalia, when President Clinton and Al Gore backed down.
Perhaps he had in mind the attack on the Khobar Towers, a dormitory housing American soldiers, where President Clinton and Al Gore backed down.
Perhaps he had in mind the attack on the USS Cole, when President and Al Gore backed down.
Or any number of other Republican-Lead Military-Debacles, such as Vietnam, where Eisenhower left a mess that would eventually claim 58,000 G.I.'s, Dead...?
Oh it was Eisehnhower's fault? Another example of your complete ignorance, fold.
Eisenhower? fold would have gone as far back as he needed to blame Vietnam on a Rebublican President. Can everyone see what a maroon this guy is?...SHEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!
I'm relieved to know that Johnson had nothing to do the "mess".
“For America, there will be no going back to the era before September the 11th, 2001 -- to false comfort in a dangerous world. We have learned that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness. And the surest way to avoid attacks on our own people is to engage the enemy where he lives and plans. We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities.” President George W. Bush, September 7, 2003
In other news, it seems Bush's approval ratings are slipping to new lows.
No not really. See http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htmHis approval seems to be good and similar to his approval rating prior to 9/11. And I am sure the numbers will go up after Sunday's speech. I know you are looking for just about any sign of hope but you might as well give it up.
According to your own link, they are currently the lowest they've been in two years and are only one point off the lowest rate since he took office, and the trend right now is clearly downwards. I don't think a speech is going to make much of a turnaround as more jobs are being lost, budget deficits are reaching new highs, and the Republican mentality of simple answers for everything seems to be failing miserably in Iraq.
Yes they are down from after 9/11. What would you expect? You need to look again because they are not the lowest except in maybe one poll and they are clearly comparable to the numbers prior to 9/11. As for simple answers, at least they are trying. Unlike liberals that have no answers and in fact don't believe in answers. If you want this country to go to hell just elect a liberal. They are completely worthless.
for everything seems to be failing miserably in Iraq.
Yes keep believing that lie. That is what will keep this country great! Things are going fine there for those that had reasonable expectations. But the left keeps lying. They have to lie because the truth means they will never have power in the foreseeable future.
The Democrats aren't going to say, "Things are going as expected in Iraq". They're going to needle and pick at any little issue there is. Lets face it, they can't say anything good about Dubya or his administration because they want Democrats to get elected.
Instead of standing on their own performance or offering solutions, they're going to sit there and rip at the current administration (the competition).
Instead of working with the administration to solve problems, they fight against it to make things worse to give themselves leverage to get elected. Trouble with this little game is, once their elected, it's their problem.
Instead of working with the administration to solve problems, they fight against it to make things worse to give themselves leverage to get elected. Trouble with this little game is, once their elected, it's their problem.
for everything seems to be failing miserably in Iraq.
Except that's not what I said. Let me add some additional punctuation for you.
the Republican mentality (of simple answers for everything) seems to be failing miserably in Iraq. The point being that Bush sold this idea that all we had to do was go in there and achieve a quick military victory and everything would fall into place pretty much on it's own. It's turned out to be much more complex than that, and much more expensive, and the American people are really starting to question now what they bought into.
The Democrats aren't going to say, "Things are going as expected in Iraq". They're going to needle and pick at any little issue there is. Lets face it, they can't say anything good about Dubya or his administration because they want Democrats to get elected.
It's a grave mistake to assume any and all criticism is simply a matter of partisanship. To do so is to put blinders on and opens you up to repeating the same mistakes over and over.
Instead of standing on their own performance or offering solutions, they're going to sit there and rip at the current administration (the competition).
That's about all you can do when the other party controls the White ouse and both houses of Congress. It also seems to me to be entirely appropriate to level such criticisms if you believe the current course of action to be faulty.
As for offering solutions, I've made some suggestions, but most of the conservatives here won't even accept the premises they're based on much less the solution itself.
The difference with SA was that we didn't pull out as a result of an attack. We pulled out because Hussein wasn't around to threaten S.A as he had and did when he attacked them in 91'. We were able to remove troops which was a good thing all around, it depends on the circumstances of how you remove troops. We had no further objectives in SA job done. We have troops in Germany that we'll probably be moving out soon or at least reducing numbers greatly, there's no need for them anymore at least not in those numbers. We set a bad precedence going back to Beirut in 83'. The USS Cole, the African Embassy bobmbings and the World trade center attacks in 93.
As for Dubya's poll numbers. Polls are historically wrong, see Jesse Ventura for proof of that, in fact they have been wrong on many occasions. But let's just say they're correct.
Reagan's poll numbers were about the same at this point in his presidency, 16 months late he won 49 states against Mondale.
the Republican mentality (of simple answers for everything) seems to be failing miserably in Iraq. The point being that Bush sold this idea that all we had to do was go in there and achieve a quick military victory and everything would fall into place pretty much on it's own.
Can I ask where you got that idea from or where he said that in his speeches ?
Yes, but the Iraqi people, I think, did. They are happy to see Saddam gone. I think they are grateful. Things are going better there then what we are told. Remember our news orginizations only focus on bad news. Bad news sells. Most of the problems in Iraq are confined to a very small area.
We can and will stabilize Iraq, and in my opinion we do not need the inept UN involved or helping.
the people who need to stabalize it are the Iraqis, not us.
I agree with that, but it seems to me they need help doing it. They have to get their infrastruture up and running. They need to refield a police and armed forces. They also need to get their oil production going to pay for this. Someone has to pay for this until they can. That is why Bush is asking for the money. When they become self governing, they can then pay back the debt. Eventually the Iraqis will be in charge of themselves, we are just helping them get there.
maybe they would feel a little better about it if the people who are helping them aren't the same people who just killed their friends and relatives and bombed the shit out of them in the first place.
Eventually the Iraqis will be in charge of themselves
you really believe this?
what is more likely is that eventually, we will install another leader (perhaps another leader to help with a war against Iran again) who is our puppet.
Well Mr. Wonderland, A friend of mine and his Engineer's Battalion have built 67 miles of new roads and 3 schools in Iraq since April. I forwarded your failing miserably post. You know. Just to show the liberal support back home.
the same could be said for this board.
America overall isn't as bright as people may think. We've discussed in other threads how public schools are not doing a very good job. If they were doing a good job, then we would have a nation that was collectively smarter and better informed. Think of some of the shows on tv. "Street Smarts" is based on how stupid some people are in real life. The "Jay-walking" segment on "The Tonight Show" is another part of television where they highlight some of America's stupidity. Listen to how some people talk, or read what they have to write and you can see how bad they grasp English and grammar. I also think that some Americans have a superiority complex, not only over non-Americans but also with regards to other Americans. They feel they are morally or intellectually superior to others. They feel they are right with pretty much every facet of their lives, and won't really consider other arguments or perspectives. There are some major issues that I disagree with Crabgrass on, but I don't think he's stupid. He has some interesting ideas and concepts. I just don't agree with some of his arguments or ideas. He keeps to discussion and debate though, in an intelligent manner. Jethro on the other hand has presented himself as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else on the boards. I don't know if I've ever seen him come close to saying he was wrong or considering someone else's views/perspectives to be valid. There can be some intelligent and civil debate with him, but eventually it turns to name-calling. I think with a medium like this, we can share information and ideas. We can make ourselves and our society better and smarter. I just don't see it happening though.
Good post TMK, Well said :) Bravo Sir.
I thought I was the superior being here...damn!
TMK is the superior being here LOL LOL LOL
the same could be said for this board.
You are free to NOT post here as often as you like.
Jethro on the other hand has presented himself as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else on the boards. I don't know if I've ever seen him come close to saying he was wrong or considering someone else's views/perspectives to be valid. There can be some intelligent and civil debate with him, but eventually it turns to name-calling.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think. I am here to vent and at other times just to have fun. Sometimes they are one and the same. I don't belive that this board can serve any other purpose.
did you just now figure this out?
that's quite a grasp of the obvious you have there bodine...impressive
crabs: Your response to could have been a more interesting article if what he had to say involved any sort of anaylsis instead of just name calling
was the same could be said for this board.
My point is that if you don't like it then don't read the posts and do not post yourself. But you knew that, you little dip....
"Hate And Fun"...wasn't that a Clash song?
and now bodine shows that he can not only state the obvious, he can restate the obvious as well!
amazing.
You can call it hate, crabs. But if you do it is just another example of your limited ability to understand basic words.
WAR ON TERROR
Al-Qaida's doomsday
warning to America
New tape says next terror onslaught will obliterate memories of Sept. 11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 7, 2003
11:15 p.m. Eastern
A new tape reportedly made by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida and broadcast on al-Arabiyya satellite TV channel threatens a terrorist onslaught against America so devastating it will surpass Sept. 11.
The message, dated Sept. 3, was broadcast today.
"We announce there will be new attacks inside and outside (the U.S.) which would make America forget the attacks of September 11," said an al-Qaida spokesman who identified himself as Abu Abd al-Rahman al-Najdi.
"We assure Muslims that al-Qaida ranks have doubled. ... Our casualties are nothing compared to our (good) conditions now. Our coming martyrdom operations will prove to you what we are saying," he added.
Washington said last week it was on alert for possible attacks by the militant group.
The speaker denied al-Qaida had been involved in the car bombing that killed Ayatollah Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, a leading Shia cleric, in Iraq last month.
"We strongly deny that al-Qaida had any hand in this bombing which killed Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, violated the sanctity of one of God's houses and killed innocent people," the speaker said on the tape. "Our highest aim is to fight the Americans and kill them everywhere on earth and drive them out of Palestine, the Arabian Peninsula and Iraq," he continued.
He accused the U.S. and Israel of orchestrating the attack on Hakim.
"We have no motives. Those who killed Baqr al-Hakim are the Americans and Jews. They wanted to get rid of him because they know that his loyalty was to Iran," he said.
In the tape, al-Qaida insisted bin Laden and Mullah Mohammad Omar, the ousted Taliban leader, were both alive and leading the battle against U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan.
FBI and Homeland Security officials warned last week the United States faces threat of attack from al-Qaida, saying it still targets Americans and has a presence in U.S. cities two years after the Sept. 11 attacks that killed about 3,000 people.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security issued an advisory saying it remained concerned about al-Qaida's "continued efforts to plan multiple attacks against the U.S. and U.S. interests overseas."
But the advisory, based on a review of intelligence ahead of the two-year anniversary of the attacks, said the department had no specific data on individual targets or dates for any attacks.
It's amazing what kind of press any Easterner gets by making a 'scary' tape with a camcorder he looted from inside of one of Sadam's blown up palaces.
It's kind of like the jerk off who called in that false bomb threat yesterday. Cowards who like to see their actions in the press. I can't imagine why it continues to happen all the time. Can I do something about it now that I might know some organization might be out to harm us? Don't think so. The government needs to keep some things under wrap to save us from ourselves. The problem lies with where that line is.
The President vowed to stay the course, but noted that it is only recently that America has done so. “During the last few decades the terrorists grew bolder, believing if they hit America hard, America would retreat and back down.”
Perhaps the President had in mind al-Qaeda’s attack on the World Trade Center in 1993, when President Clinton and Al Gore backed down.
Perhaps he had in mind al-Qaeda’s attack on American troops in Somalia, when President Clinton and Al Gore backed down.
Perhaps he had in mind the attack on the Khobar Towers, a dormitory housing American soldiers, where President Clinton and Al Gore backed down.
Perhaps he had in mind the attack on the USS Cole, when President and Al Gore backed down.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidhorowitz/dh20030908.shtml
I'm not sure either of you are using the term "backed down" properly.
back down as in giving in to their demands?
like trading arms for hostages?
see Iran-Contra.
of course you can currently find several of the key players in the current administration, appointed by GW to high-level positions.
Or any number of other Republican-Lead Military-Debacles, such as Vietnam, where Eisenhower left a mess that would eventually claim 58,000 G.I.'s, Dead...?
Oh it was Eisehnhower's fault? Another example of your complete ignorance, fold.
Bill,
Vietnam was Eisenhowers fault ? I disagree with the other parts of your post too, but Vietnam ? C'mon Bill.
Yup, Kennedy and LBJ had nothing to do with it, no siree Bob.
Yep It was Bush's fault for getting us into Somolia and it was Willies for pulling us out in that matter.
Eisenhower? fold would have gone as far back as he needed to blame Vietnam on a Rebublican President. Can everyone see what a maroon this guy is?...SHEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!
I'm relieved to know that Johnson had nothing to do the "mess".
“For America, there will be no going back to the era before September the 11th, 2001 -- to false comfort in a dangerous world. We have learned that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness. And the surest way to avoid attacks on our own people is to engage the enemy where he lives and plans. We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities.” President George W. Bush, September 7, 2003
Yes, indeed!
Anyone see Letterman last night, with the footage of Bush hockin a big ass loogy, when he was walkin around outside, someplace?
Can everyone see what a maroon this guy is?...
Oh, the irony.
So would he be Virginia, States, or perhaps St. Charles Place?
In other news, it seems Bush's approval ratings are slipping to new lows.
And wasn't it GW who pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia, just like bin Laden wanted us to?
In other news, it seems Bush's approval ratings are slipping to new lows.
No not really. See http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htmHis approval seems to be good and similar to his approval rating prior to 9/11. And I am sure the numbers will go up after Sunday's speech. I know you are looking for just about any sign of hope but you might as well give it up.
According to your own link, they are currently the lowest they've been in two years and are only one point off the lowest rate since he took office, and the trend right now is clearly downwards. I don't think a speech is going to make much of a turnaround as more jobs are being lost, budget deficits are reaching new highs, and the Republican mentality of simple answers for everything seems to be failing miserably in Iraq.
Yes they are down from after 9/11. What would you expect? You need to look again because they are not the lowest except in maybe one poll and they are clearly comparable to the numbers prior to 9/11. As for simple answers, at least they are trying. Unlike liberals that have no answers and in fact don't believe in answers. If you want this country to go to hell just elect a liberal. They are completely worthless.
for everything seems to be failing miserably in Iraq.
Yes keep believing that lie. That is what will keep this country great! Things are going fine there for those that had reasonable expectations. But the left keeps lying. They have to lie because the truth means they will never have power in the foreseeable future.
The Democrats aren't going to say, "Things are going as expected in Iraq". They're going to needle and pick at any little issue there is. Lets face it, they can't say anything good about Dubya or his administration because they want Democrats to get elected.
Instead of standing on their own performance or offering solutions, they're going to sit there and rip at the current administration (the competition).
Instead of working with the administration to solve problems, they fight against it to make things worse to give themselves leverage to get elected. Trouble with this little game is, once their elected, it's their problem.
If a democrap is elected what will he/she do differently? That is the question that they need to be asked.
Don't hold your breath. Most likely all you'll hear is criticism.
BINGO.
for everything seems to be failing miserably in Iraq.
Except that's not what I said. Let me add some additional punctuation for you.
the Republican mentality (of simple answers for everything) seems to be failing miserably in Iraq. The point being that Bush sold this idea that all we had to do was go in there and achieve a quick military victory and everything would fall into place pretty much on it's own. It's turned out to be much more complex than that, and much more expensive, and the American people are really starting to question now what they bought into.
The Democrats aren't going to say, "Things are going as expected in Iraq". They're going to needle and pick at any little issue there is. Lets face it, they can't say anything good about Dubya or his administration because they want Democrats to get elected.
It's a grave mistake to assume any and all criticism is simply a matter of partisanship. To do so is to put blinders on and opens you up to repeating the same mistakes over and over.
Instead of standing on their own performance or offering solutions, they're going to sit there and rip at the current administration (the competition).
That's about all you can do when the other party controls the White ouse and both houses of Congress. It also seems to me to be entirely appropriate to level such criticisms if you believe the current course of action to be faulty.
As for offering solutions, I've made some suggestions, but most of the conservatives here won't even accept the premises they're based on much less the solution itself.
Alison,
The difference with SA was that we didn't pull out as a result of an attack. We pulled out because Hussein wasn't around to threaten S.A as he had and did when he attacked them in 91'. We were able to remove troops which was a good thing all around, it depends on the circumstances of how you remove troops. We had no further objectives in SA job done. We have troops in Germany that we'll probably be moving out soon or at least reducing numbers greatly, there's no need for them anymore at least not in those numbers. We set a bad precedence going back to Beirut in 83'. The USS Cole, the African Embassy bobmbings and the World trade center attacks in 93.
As for Dubya's poll numbers. Polls are historically wrong, see Jesse Ventura for proof of that, in fact they have been wrong on many occasions. But let's just say they're correct.
Reagan's poll numbers were about the same at this point in his presidency, 16 months late he won 49 states against Mondale.
Can I ask where you got that idea from or where he said that in his speeches ?
But that is all the democraps are doing.
When did Bush say it would be quick and easy in Iraq?
I actually recall him saying the opposite.
It has ONLY been 6 months. My god, lets give it a little time.
And another thing, the 87 billion for Iraq and other things. Do you realize what a small percentage of our economy that is? So give that a rest too.
Good luck on that one Wolvie. 6 months is an eternity to some apparently.
Luv2Fly 9/9/03 2:33pm
We were in Japan for about 7 years after WWII as I recall.
Rich T 9/9/03 3:14pm
Yep,
That was also after 4 years of war too. Good thing people had a bit more realism and patience and perseverance back then.
Luv2Fly 9/9/03 3:17pm
Too many folks are the fast food type. They want it now and they want it cheap.
Rich T 9/9/03 3:22pm
Sadly true.
I didn't want it at all.
Yes, but the Iraqi people, I think, did. They are happy to see Saddam gone. I think they are grateful. Things are going better there then what we are told. Remember our news orginizations only focus on bad news. Bad news sells. Most of the problems in Iraq are confined to a very small area.
We can and will stabilize Iraq, and in my opinion we do not need the inept UN involved or helping.
really?
Every time I turn to Fox, it's like they are cheerleaders for how great everything is.
the people who need to stabalize it are the Iraqis, not us.
the people who need to stabalize it are the Iraqis, not us.
I agree with that, but it seems to me they need help doing it. They have to get their infrastruture up and running. They need to refield a police and armed forces. They also need to get their oil production going to pay for this. Someone has to pay for this until they can. That is why Bush is asking for the money. When they become self governing, they can then pay back the debt. Eventually the Iraqis will be in charge of themselves, we are just helping them get there.
maybe they would feel a little better about it if the people who are helping them aren't the same people who just killed their friends and relatives and bombed the shit out of them in the first place.
you really believe this?
what is more likely is that eventually, we will install another leader (perhaps another leader to help with a war against Iran again) who is our puppet.
Well Mr. Wonderland, A friend of mine and his Engineer's Battalion have built 67 miles of new roads and 3 schools in Iraq since April. I forwarded your failing miserably post. You know. Just to show the liberal support back home.
Keep it up little gurl.