And to be honest, I'm glad I found you all here. I used to post on the veteran's board at the Water Cooler site. When I heard about this I decided to see what it's like. I was pleased to see it's the same. I remember quite a few from there. Being a Korean veteran, I'm glad to see you have a veteran's board here. Who's running this, I mean who funds it?
(Deleted message originally posted by Bud on 06:34am Mar 30, 2002 PST)
NOTE TO SELF: if you're going to slam me, at least clean it up so i get the benefit of seeing it. i know you can do it, because ESPN was able to put your letter online:
Readers' List: Worst choke artists
5. Minnesota Vikings (127 letters)
Although it's easy to point the finger at individuals such as Greg Norman or Bill Buckner, true choking is done on a grander scale when looking at teams, specifically, the Minnesota Vikings.
Not only for their lack of preparation and effort in the 2001 NFC championshipversus the Giants, but more so for their taking a knee in the 1999 NFC championship gameversus an inferior Falcons squad. The most prolific scoring team of all-time in the NFL and you take a knee with 38 seconds to move the ball? Whether taking a knee or choking with both hands firmly around neck, the Minnesota Vikings are the leaders in the team choking category. -Tom Ryan, Lakeville, MN
Because they have always been a top-quality team, but they fail miserablywhenever they get the chance to take the gold ... I'd bet big on these guys to win games, all season long, right up to the final game of the year, whereupon I'd wager all of my total winnings that they would choke, as usual.
Maybe they should get Gov. Ventura to lay some smack down because these guys are a complete embarrassment to the great(?) state of Minnesota. -Tarl Fury, Seattle
Put that "choker" tag on Denny. His woeful record in "big" games earned him that deserving reputation.
BTW, I'm really anxious to see how these "new" Minnesoa Vikings react when a big game comes along their way this year. Even tho they lost to the Ravens in their last game last year, I really appreciated the way the players performed. They could have mailed it in, but they played with energy and excitement. With Daunte back under center, and Carter out of the picture, I expext the same intensity and focus in each and every game this year.
Are the BEARS high? He doesn't even want to play for them.
funny:
The Chicago Bears matched the offer the Vikings made to restricted free agent wide receiver D'Wayne Bates on Wednesday.
The Vikings signed Bates to an offer sheet last Wednesday and Chicago had a week to match it and retain him.
Bates, 26, has 15 receptions in his three-year career for 221 yards (14.7 avg.). He had a career-high nine receptions for 160 yards and one touchdown for Chicago in 2001, and played in 11 games with one start. Bates' top game in 2001 came at Detroit (12/30) when he had four catches for 107 yards and a touchdown. He had four receptions for 42 yards in 2000 and two catches for 19 yards in 1999.
Bates, 6-2, 215, was selected by the Bears in the third round (71st overall) of the 1999 NFL Draft out of Northwestern University. He set Northwestern's career records in receptions (210), yards (3,370), and touchdowns (26). Bates ended his college career second in Big Ten history in both catches and yards. He was an All-Big 10 first-team selection his senior year when he led the conference with 83 catches for 1,245 yards and nine touchdowns. Bates missed his junior season with a leg injury, but was an All-Big 10 first-team selection his sophomore season when he caught 75 passes for 1,196 yards.
Let me see if I have this straight. The Bears match the Vikings offer to Bates. Then try to trade Bates to the Vikings. The Vikings say no, so the Bears waive him? Now the Vikings can get him once he clears waivers. Is there another team that may snag him before the Vikings? I don't know, but I would like to see the Vikings get him.
you got it! what a bunch of maroons. they were banging the jerry angelo drum for all it was worth down in chicago. now it seems the worm has turned in the windy city...
Another reason I like this area is that it's easy to ignore those that are most deserving...
it's funny that the reigning crown prince of stupidity would even bother to respond, if he didn't know that he was being verbally abused. i do appreciate the effort, but i have to laugh at the methodology....
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"It appears there is only one team giving serious consideration to claiming receiver D'Wayne Bates, whom the Vikings hope to land when the waiver period ends Tuesday.
The Buffalo Bills have indicated some interest in Bates as a No. 2 or No. 3 receiver, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
The Bills -- along with Houston, Carolina, Detroit, Dallas and San Diego -- have waiver wire priority over the Vikings.
The Texans are known to be interested in acquiring a receiver but indicated Friday that Bates' $1.1 million salary cap number for 2002 is too high for them. Bates' agents have spread word around the NFL that he strongly prefers to play for the Vikings.
"D'Wayne hasn't wavered," said agent Ben Dogra. "He is so sold on the Vikings. He just wouldn't be happy in any other place."
Here's hoping that the Bills let him slide.
And it seems as if Bates ain't no dummy either. He WANTS to wear the purple. Playing alongside Moss the Boss and catching passes from the gunslinger Culpepper... It doesn't get much better than that.
if he is not picked up by the six teams* ahead of us on the waiver wire.
Houston
Carolina
Detroit
Buffalo
San Diego
Dallas
i would sure think that one of those clubs would at least consider picking him up, but either champ or nadho said that bates had told the other clubs that he only wanted to play for MINN. is that the comment from bates' agent, who's just putting a little shine on his merchandise?
i can't say for sure, but i have yet to see a comment from bates himself. then again, i haven't been keeping an eye on the minny press because it's been so thin on coverage lately. there's nothing like that coming out of CHI, but...
"The embarrassing conclusion for the Bears may yet find Bates winding up with the Vikings, who are eighth in lineto claim Bates, a three-year veteran, off waivers."
i wonder who the other 2 clubs are? are they saying that the bears are eighth, or the vikings? odd!
but yeah, it sure looks like bates *should* be in winter park in 2002. the wild card to me is detroit. they shelled out too much coin for hakim & schroeder, after cutting morton. does millen throw his ugly mug into the fracas and turn this into a 3-team nfc north pi$$in contest? this whole story is so odd, i'll believe any outcome at this point. and i'll believe anything about detroit doing something asinine. the whole story is just plain weird.
Ashley Lelie, Hawaii, 6-2 5/8, 197: Has been bothered much of the spring by a hamstring injury so no team other than Kansas City has seen him run pass routes. Looks skinny on tape but has added about 18 pounds since end of season. Had 157 catches for more than 2,800 yards in the past two seasons and possesses true home-run speed. Hard worker who has improved every season and seems willing to pay the price to succeed at the next level. Added strength should help him get off the jam, but since he played in run-and-shoot offense, he needs work on route adjustments.
Jabar Gaffney, Florida, 6-1 1/8, 193: Showed grit and determination by returning to the Gators without a scholarship in 2000 after being booted off team. Has run decent 40 times but plays a lot faster than his stopwatch speed anyway. At times it seems he's simply gliding to the ball. He might be the best receiver in the entire draft in terms of adjusting to the ball, a function of superb body control and innate balance, and he always catches the ball at its highest point. Like most Gators receivers, looks like he has never been near a weight room, so he might need to add bulk.
Josh Reed, LSU, 5-10¼, 210: Former tailback still flashes some skills from his past position -- will run through tackles; he added nearly 600 yards after the catch in a brilliant 2001 campaign. Still learning the wideout position but runs sharp routes and doesn't have to throttle down going into his cuts. More physical than most of his peers and has inherent sense of how to use his body to shield off defenders. Has answered some skeptics who questioned his quickness, but he does lack pure deep speed and he definitely needs to shed some pounds from his doughboy frame.
Antonio Bryant, Pittsburgh, 6-1¼, 188: Hardly a choir boy off the field and had a disappointing 2001 season on it, often appearing to be just biding time until he could declare for the draft as an underclass player. Some scouts compare his raw ability to that of Randy Moss, and he possesses a similar frame. Lacks deep speed but is a pure receiver who knows how to get open, isn't bashful about going into a crowd after the ball and will make big plays even against double-teams. Some team is going to take him in the first round, and he'll either break its heart or make it look smart.
Reche Caldwell, Florida, 5-11¾, 194: Won't run very fast on the stopwatch, but his game isn't straight line anyway. He definitely has enough competitive speed to succeed in the NFL. He's especially good working between the seams. Even in tough situations, he won't get flustered. Plays every down at a nice, controlled speed and has a deceptive burst to the ball. Not especially explosive coming out of his cuts but is so precise that he tends to get open anyway. Like teammate Jabar Gaffney, will need a little more muscle to run through NFL secondaries.
Javon Walker, Florida State, 6-2¾, 210: Prototype size and knows how to use it, will separate from cornerbacks by pushing off and can use his upper body to muscle defenders off the ball. Suffered through injuries both seasons at FSU, so still needs some work refining his routes and polishing his overall game. But it's hard to ignore such a gifted athlete, a guy who averaged nearly 20 yards per catch. Big hands and can really go up and snatch the ball at its apex. Clocked a sub-4.4 time at the combine but doesn't always play as quick as his stopwatch speed indicates.
Andre Davis, Virginia Tech, 6-1½, 194: Everyone knew this track sprint specialist would run fast at the combine, and he didn't disappoint anyone, blistering the track with a 4.42 in the 40. Good, live body, rarely goes down on initial impact and will almost always add yardage after the catch. Doesn't look like the typical track guy trying to make it as a football player. Didn't always play his best against the top-flight competition and was shut out last season by Miami. Not a natural pass-catcher, he has to work on the small details, such as looking the ball into his hands.
Rising: Former track star Tim Carter of Auburn went from a probable late-round selection to a likely first-day pick with strong performances at the Senior Bowl and the combine. Carter is still a tad raw, but he has improved every season and should be able to contribute as a kickoff return man while learning the intricacies of playing wide receiver.
Declining: Georgia Tech wide receiver Kelly Campbell nearly declared for the draft following the 2000 season, stayed in school but didn't work on the things he needed to improve. He is a frail-looking receiver who is easily jammed, is surprisingly stiff and doesn't run nearly as fast as most of the scouts assumed he would.
Intriguing: Some team is going to grab former Indiana quarterback Antwaan Randle El in about the third round and figure out a zillion ways to use him. His stopwatch times haven't been as good as scouts wanted, but he remains more quick than fast and is impressively elusive. He can be a No. 4 wideout, return punts and work as the emergency quarterback.
Middle-round value: Although he will never develop into a star, Brian Poli-Dixon of UCLA has the kind of size (6-5, 210 pounds) and overall athletic ability that could provide some team a solid return on a mid-round investment. If he ever concentrated and played up to his potential, he could become an effective slot receiver.
Worth a late-round look: Former walk-on R.J. English of Pitt is the classic possession-type guy, blessed with good size (6-2 1/8, 211 pounds) but cursed by a lack of quickness (4.63). But he is an excellent complementary receiver who has good feel for the game and where the holes will be in the secondary, and deserves a shot. Another player worth a look is Wisconsin wideout Nick Davis, who returned five kickoffs for touchdowns in his career.
Super sleeper: Not many scouts travel to Sacred Heart (Conn.) University, but former basketball player DeVeren Johnson is worth a look. The late-blooming wide receiver is 6-4, 212 and had 92 catches for 1,590 yards and 16 touchdowns the past two years. Johnson runs only in the 4.6s, but he catches everything in sight.
Others: Marquise Walker (Michigan); Deion Branch (Louisville); Cliff Russell (Utah); Freddie Milons (Alabama); Ron Johnson (Minnesota); Kendall Newson (Middle Tennessee State); Terry Charles (Portland State); Kahlil Hill (Iowa); Herb Haygood (Michigan State); Darnell Hill (Northern Illinois); Javin Hunter (Notre Dame); Emmett Johnson (Virginia Tech).
Notable: You could assemble a pretty good sprint relay team from the wideouts who ran blazing 40-yard times at the combine. The quartet should include Aaron Lockett of Kansas State (4.31), Auburn's Tim Carter (4.32), Utah's Clifford Russell (4.36) and Javon Walker of Florida State (4.38) ... Carter is related to Hall of Fame tight end Ozzie Newsome and baseball stars Gary Sheffield and Dwight Gooden ... Derrick Gaffney, the father of Florida wideout Jabar Gaffney, was a receiver with the New York Jets ... The father of Kahlil Hill of Iowa is former Buffalo Bills standout J.D. Hill ... Javon Walker of Florida State played two seasons of baseball in the Florida Marlins organization ... Tiny Widener College actually has two prospects, Jim Jones and Michael Coleman, in this draft. It's the same school that produced former Atlanta Falcons star Billy "White Shoes" Johnson ... Aaron Lockett of Kansas State is the younger brother of Washington Redskins wide receiver Kevin Lockett.
His name is sliding but I'd love to see him in a Viking uniform. I guess his speed is a drawback, but he's got everything else. He's just like Keyshawn Johnson.
I personally couldn't care less if we get Bates or not.
but you're looking for a WR to replace CC! i'm sure you'll agree that walsh can't fill a starter's role. is there anybody else currently on the roster that you're excited about seeing in CC's x-slot? i can't believe that there is.
as for the draft, nobody is really worth taking at #7, and it's not too likely they'll pluck a go-to guy in the 2nd round. bates is the best FA with the kind of experience, potential, and health that your club needs right now. that's not only my eval, it's the vikings too.
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Almost two weeks after signing D'Wayne Bates to an offer sheet and having Chicago match it, the Vikings got the wide receiver they wanted via a waiver claim.
The Vikings got the news they have been waiting to hear for almost two weeks. They finally got their man, D'Wayne Bates, signed as a No. 3 receiver.
Bates was signed to a three-year, $2.85 million offer sheet on March 27, but the Bears matched the offer just before the deadline on April 3. However, shortly after matching the offer, the Bears front office made it clear that they were looking to trade Bates or lower his cap number and avoid a $550,000 roster bonus due two days later.
A trade would have allowed Chicago to receive some sort of compensation for the restricted free agent despite a clerical error that hindered that compensation should they have not matched the Vikings' offer to him.
Bates, through his agent, made it clear that he wanted to play for the Vikings after their offer. But the Bears ignored his wishes and manipulated the system to keep the Vikings from having the only chance at him. When Bates refused to restructure the offer sheet the Bears matched last week, the Bears released him before they were required to pay his roster bonus.
Since, the Vikings have been waiting the allotted three business days for Bates to go through waivers before finding out today of their fate with the receiver.
The Vikings have now addressed their need at pass rusher, signing Miami's Lorenzo Bromell Tuesday to give them depth at the position.
Coming into free agency, the Vikings had some concerns on the defensive end position -- among several others.
Those concerns have been allayed, since the Vikings have now invested as much as $30 million over five years in the position. After signing Kenny Mixon last month, the Vikings added Mixon's backup Lorenzo Bromell Tuesday.
Bromell, a pass rush specialist with more than 20 sacks in four years despite just three starts, signed a five-year deal for $11 million, which includes a $2 million signing bonus. With incentives the contract could be worth as much as $15 million.
The Vikings now have Mixon, Bromell, Talance Sawyer and Lance Johnstone signed to play DE.
WEDNESDAY NOTES
The Vikings aren't done looking at free agents. The team is still talking to WR Jerome Pathon and TE Hunter Goodwin and hope to have deals completed this week.
Three more free agents -- DT Grady Jackson (Oakland), OL Roman Oben (Cleveland) and K Doug Brien (last with Tampa Bay) -- are scheduled in this week.
The Vikings hosted rookie DE/LB Kalimba Edwards, CB Quentin Jammer and OT Mike Williams Tuesday with more rookie visits scheduled later this week.
I think Bates will be a good #2 or #3 WR. I like the moves the Vikings have made so far. It will be interesting to see what they do during the draft. Will they stay with the #7 pick or trade down for more picks? Depending on who is available at #7, moving down may not be a bad idea. Especially if the right deal is made.
The signing of defensive end Lorenzo Bromell created somewhat of a logjam at right end, where Bromell, Talance Sawyer, Lance Johnstone and Patrick Chukwurah were all expected to see playing time. One option is to move Chukwurah to outside linebacker, where the Vikings have at least one starting position open.
This is easy, so goodbye to Johnstone and move Chukwurah to LB. Sawyer and Bromell at right DE will be solid.
The Vikings had set their sights on WR Jerome Pathon from the time free agency began but lost out to New Orleans Wednesday, leaving the option open to consider a draft run at a top WR.
The Vikings had hoped to fill the big shoes of Cris Carter with a guy wearing one big shoe -- Colts WR Jerome Pathon, who is recovering from foot surgery.
Pathon had been a target of the Vikings since free agency began, but he opted to turn down an offer from the Vikings to sign with New Orleans late Wednesday.
The Saints had a deal on the table with Pathon last week, but sweetened the pot by increasing his signing bonus to $1 million on a four-year, $10 million contract. With a base salary of just $525,000, Pathon will be a limited risk if it is determined he isn't fully recovered from his injury.
From what VU is being told, the Vikings were a little upset with the development, because they made a similar offer of more than $2 million a season on a four-year deal, but Pathon opted for the deal offered by the Saints. The Vikings had hoped having offensive coordinator Scott Linehan, who coached Pathon in college, would be an incentive to come, but he now joins a growing list of former Vikings in the Big Easy.
THURSDAY NOTES
Oakland DT Grady Jackson will be in town today to meet with the Vikings, along with kicker Doug Brien and OT Roman Oben. Jackson turned down an offer from the Jets Wednesday, which was viewed as a low-ball one-year, $850,000 contract.
Former Viking Brad Badger will likely sign today or tomorrow, either with Oakland or Seattle, for the league minimum. Badger is said to be leaning toward Oakland, but, in an interesting sidebar, his agent contacted the Vikings this week saying Badger was willing to return to the Vikings for the veteran minimum, but the Vikings turned him down.
With Pathon off the block, the future of Saints free agent WR Willie Jackson looks cloudy. He is said to be one of the wideouts the Vikings are interested in.
While word is that Jacksonville WR Keenan McCardell will be one of the veteran WRs released June 1, one that is guaranteed to go is Kansas City's Derrick Alexander. He got a $100,000 bonus to restructure his contract so he can be released by the Chiefs June 1. He has been given permission to shop around the league for potential suitors and the Vikings are said to be one of the teams he and his agent will contact in the near future.
One interesting rumor floating around is that the Vikings are looking for a veteran quarterback to serve with Todd Bouman as backups, and one name that has come up is the ageless Mark Rypien. It's unsure if the two sides will work out a deal, but it's a clear sign the Vikings don't want to risk the bind they found themselves in last year when Daunte Culpepper went down -- two QB's with limited NFL playing experience.
CB Phillip Buchanon visited Winter Park Wednesday, but another player the Vikings might consider with their first pick -- Tennessee WR Donte Stallworth -- apparently won't be able to squeeze the Vikings into his visit schedule before the draft, which could have an adverse effect on the team's consideration of drafting him.
Newsday also reports that the Seattle Seahawks and the Minnesota Vikings were offered the chance to bid on Strahan, but declined. "Not interested," Vikings coach Mike Tice said. "He doesn't fit into what we're doing."Tice recalls that the Giants wanted high draft picks in return for Strahan.
No it would be wasting to much money and draft picks on a team that needs more then one player to help the defense. I like the approach they are using. Sign a bunch of realitively good players and put them in a good coaching scheme. I think they are following the same kind of plan that Chicago used to build up their team. The Vikes defense will be better then last year. Of course that will not take much. =)
I am a life-long Viking fan and I am in complete agreement with many of your assessments.
How do you see the season shaping up?
I have to say, I appreciate your honesty.
Yeah, honesty is always good. Isn't it Bennie?
And to be honest, I'm glad I found you all here. I used to post on the veteran's board at the Water Cooler site. When I heard about this I decided to see what it's like. I was pleased to see it's the same. I remember quite a few from there. Being a Korean veteran, I'm glad to see you have a veteran's board here. Who's running this, I mean who funds it?
bud,
(Deleted message originally posted by Bud on 06:34am Mar 30, 2002 PST)
Readers' List: Worst choke artists
5. Minnesota Vikings (127 letters)
Although it's easy to point the finger at individuals such as Greg Norman or Bill Buckner, true choking is done on a grander scale when looking at teams, specifically, the Minnesota Vikings.
-Tom Ryan, Lakeville, MN
Maybe they should get Gov. Ventura to lay some smack down because these guys are a complete embarrassment to the great(?) state of Minnesota.
-Tarl Fury, Seattle
SOURCE: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/chokes.html
the good news is that the vikes will so far in the nfc north's basement this year, they won't have to worry about *COUGH!* choking, lol!
Confusious has inside information...
And ol' Bennie is not a veteran of Korea or anything else...
I'm telling ya...
Put that "choker" tag on Denny. His woeful record in "big" games earned him that deserving reputation.
BTW, I'm really anxious to see how these "new" Minnesoa Vikings react when a big game comes along their way this year. Even tho they lost to the Ravens in their last game last year, I really appreciated the way the players performed. They could have mailed it in, but they played with energy and excitement. With Daunte back under center, and Carter out of the picture, I expext the same intensity and focus in each and every game this year.
GO VIKINGS!!!
Are the BEARS high? He doesn't even want to play for them.
funny:
The Chicago Bears matched the offer the Vikings made to restricted free agent wide receiver D'Wayne Bates on Wednesday.
The Vikings signed Bates to an offer sheet last Wednesday and Chicago had a week to match it and retain him.
Bates, 26, has 15 receptions in his three-year career for 221 yards (14.7 avg.). He had a career-high nine receptions for 160 yards and one touchdown for Chicago in 2001, and played in 11 games with one start. Bates' top game in 2001 came at Detroit (12/30) when he had four catches for 107 yards and a touchdown. He had four receptions for 42 yards in 2000 and two catches for 19 yards in 1999.
Bates, 6-2, 215, was selected by the Bears in the third round (71st overall) of the 1999 NFL Draft out of Northwestern University. He set Northwestern's career records in receptions (210), yards (3,370), and touchdowns (26). Bates ended his college career second in Big Ten history in both catches and yards. He was an All-Big 10 first-team selection his senior year when he led the conference with 83 catches for 1,245 yards and nine touchdowns. Bates missed his junior season with a leg injury, but was an All-Big 10 first-team selection his sophomore season when he caught 75 passes for 1,196 yards.
BAD IDEA JEANS
Let me see if I have this straight. The Bears match the Vikings offer to Bates. Then try to trade Bates to the Vikings. The Vikings say no, so the Bears waive him? Now the Vikings can get him once he clears waivers. Is there another team that may snag him before the Vikings? I don't know, but I would like to see the Vikings get him.
SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!
wolvie,
Let me see if I have this straight.
View from a Bears Fan
Illinois’ Mark Torres thinks that having Jerry Angelo as GM of the Bears is not a good thing
<LINK: http://chicagosports.com/bears/content/story/0,1984,56080,00.html>
sleepo,
Confusious has inside information...
did you find a gerbil whilst you were busy probing yourself too? or just *another* class ring?
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.........would anybody want to read your worthless crap anyway ?
Reblow = wannabe
GO PACK GO !
Another reason I like this area is that it's easy to ignore those that are most deserving...
it's funny that the reigning crown prince of stupidity would even bother to respond, if he didn't know that he was being verbally abused. i do appreciate the effort, but i have to laugh at the methodology....
Can the Vikings still get Bates or will he end up on another team? Any thoughts on where Bates ends up?
Wolvie
I guess the Vikings can still grab him if he is not picked up by the six teams ahead of us on the waiver wire.
Wolvie
I just found this on the Trib website...
"It appears there is only one team giving serious consideration to claiming receiver D'Wayne Bates, whom the Vikings hope to land when the waiver period ends Tuesday.
The Buffalo Bills have indicated some interest in Bates as a No. 2 or No. 3 receiver, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
The Bills -- along with Houston, Carolina, Detroit, Dallas and San Diego -- have waiver wire priority over the Vikings.
The Texans are known to be interested in acquiring a receiver but indicated Friday that Bates' $1.1 million salary cap number for 2002 is too high for them. Bates' agents have spread word around the NFL that he strongly prefers to play for the Vikings.
"D'Wayne hasn't wavered," said agent Ben Dogra. "He is so sold on the Vikings. He just wouldn't be happy in any other place."
Here's hoping that the Bills let him slide.
And it seems as if Bates ain't no dummy either. He WANTS to wear the purple. Playing alongside Moss the Boss and catching passes from the gunslinger Culpepper... It doesn't get much better than that.
Oh yeah...
GO VIKINGS!!!
it don't get no better than that !
;';'cHUCkle';';
cb & wolvie,
if he is not picked up by the six teams* ahead of us on the waiver wire.
i would sure think that one of those clubs would at least consider picking him up, but either champ or nadho said that bates had told the other clubs that he only wanted to play for MINN. is that the comment from bates' agent, who's just putting a little shine on his merchandise?
i can't say for sure, but i have yet to see a comment from bates himself. then again, i haven't been keeping an eye on the minny press because it's been so thin on coverage lately. there's nothing like that coming out of CHI, but...
"The embarrassing conclusion for the Bears may yet find Bates winding up with the Vikings, who are eighth in lineto claim Bates, a three-year veteran, off waivers."
SOURCE: http://www.chicagosports.com/bears/content/story/0,1984,179481,00.html
i wonder who the other 2 clubs are? are they saying that the bears are eighth, or the vikings? odd!
but yeah, it sure looks like bates *should* be in winter park in 2002. the wild card to me is detroit. they shelled out too much coin for hakim & schroeder, after cutting morton. does millen throw his ugly mug into the fracas and turn this into a 3-team nfc north pi$$in contest? this whole story is so odd, i'll believe any outcome at this point. and i'll believe anything about detroit doing something asinine. the whole story is just plain weird.
Rating the wide receivers
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rating the wide receiver prospects for the April 20-21 draft:
Donté Stallworth, Tennessee, 6-0 1/8, 197: Dazzled scouts with sub-4.3 times in 40-yard dash during his campus workout last month. Explosive speed and can run past double-team coverages. Can turn the game around at any time with a big play. High school sprinter is still learning nuances of the position, but runs fairly precise routes and makes the acrobatic catch. Has had some injuries but played much of the 2001 season with a cast on his wrist. Very fluid and a great jumper. Needs to work on concentration, and some feel he chops his steps a little too much.
Ashley Lelie, Hawaii, 6-2 5/8, 197: Has been bothered much of the spring by a hamstring injury so no team other than Kansas City has seen him run pass routes. Looks skinny on tape but has added about 18 pounds since end of season. Had 157 catches for more than 2,800 yards in the past two seasons and possesses true home-run speed. Hard worker who has improved every season and seems willing to pay the price to succeed at the next level. Added strength should help him get off the jam, but since he played in run-and-shoot offense, he needs work on route adjustments.
Jabar Gaffney, Florida, 6-1 1/8, 193: Showed grit and determination by returning to the Gators without a scholarship in 2000 after being booted off team. Has run decent 40 times but plays a lot faster than his stopwatch speed anyway. At times it seems he's simply gliding to the ball. He might be the best receiver in the entire draft in terms of adjusting to the ball, a function of superb body control and innate balance, and he always catches the ball at its highest point. Like most Gators receivers, looks like he has never been near a weight room, so he might need to add bulk.
Josh Reed, LSU, 5-10¼, 210: Former tailback still flashes some skills from his past position -- will run through tackles; he added nearly 600 yards after the catch in a brilliant 2001 campaign. Still learning the wideout position but runs sharp routes and doesn't have to throttle down going into his cuts. More physical than most of his peers and has inherent sense of how to use his body to shield off defenders. Has answered some skeptics who questioned his quickness, but he does lack pure deep speed and he definitely needs to shed some pounds from his doughboy frame.
Antonio Bryant, Pittsburgh, 6-1¼, 188: Hardly a choir boy off the field and had a disappointing 2001 season on it, often appearing to be just biding time until he could declare for the draft as an underclass player. Some scouts compare his raw ability to that of Randy Moss, and he possesses a similar frame. Lacks deep speed but is a pure receiver who knows how to get open, isn't bashful about going into a crowd after the ball and will make big plays even against double-teams. Some team is going to take him in the first round, and he'll either break its heart or make it look smart.
Reche Caldwell, Florida, 5-11¾, 194: Won't run very fast on the stopwatch, but his game isn't straight line anyway. He definitely has enough competitive speed to succeed in the NFL. He's especially good working between the seams. Even in tough situations, he won't get flustered. Plays every down at a nice, controlled speed and has a deceptive burst to the ball. Not especially explosive coming out of his cuts but is so precise that he tends to get open anyway. Like teammate Jabar Gaffney, will need a little more muscle to run through NFL secondaries.
Javon Walker, Florida State, 6-2¾, 210: Prototype size and knows how to use it, will separate from cornerbacks by pushing off and can use his upper body to muscle defenders off the ball. Suffered through injuries both seasons at FSU, so still needs some work refining his routes and polishing his overall game. But it's hard to ignore such a gifted athlete, a guy who averaged nearly 20 yards per catch. Big hands and can really go up and snatch the ball at its apex. Clocked a sub-4.4 time at the combine but doesn't always play as quick as his stopwatch speed indicates.
Andre Davis, Virginia Tech, 6-1½, 194: Everyone knew this track sprint specialist would run fast at the combine, and he didn't disappoint anyone, blistering the track with a 4.42 in the 40. Good, live body, rarely goes down on initial impact and will almost always add yardage after the catch. Doesn't look like the typical track guy trying to make it as a football player. Didn't always play his best against the top-flight competition and was shut out last season by Miami. Not a natural pass-catcher, he has to work on the small details, such as looking the ball into his hands.
Rising: Former track star Tim Carter of Auburn went from a probable late-round selection to a likely first-day pick with strong performances at the Senior Bowl and the combine. Carter is still a tad raw, but he has improved every season and should be able to contribute as a kickoff return man while learning the intricacies of playing wide receiver.
Declining: Georgia Tech wide receiver Kelly Campbell nearly declared for the draft following the 2000 season, stayed in school but didn't work on the things he needed to improve. He is a frail-looking receiver who is easily jammed, is surprisingly stiff and doesn't run nearly as fast as most of the scouts assumed he would.
Intriguing: Some team is going to grab former Indiana quarterback Antwaan Randle El in about the third round and figure out a zillion ways to use him. His stopwatch times haven't been as good as scouts wanted, but he remains more quick than fast and is impressively elusive. He can be a No. 4 wideout, return punts and work as the emergency quarterback.
Middle-round value: Although he will never develop into a star, Brian Poli-Dixon of UCLA has the kind of size (6-5, 210 pounds) and overall athletic ability that could provide some team a solid return on a mid-round investment. If he ever concentrated and played up to his potential, he could become an effective slot receiver.
Worth a late-round look: Former walk-on R.J. English of Pitt is the classic possession-type guy, blessed with good size (6-2 1/8, 211 pounds) but cursed by a lack of quickness (4.63). But he is an excellent complementary receiver who has good feel for the game and where the holes will be in the secondary, and deserves a shot. Another player worth a look is Wisconsin wideout Nick Davis, who returned five kickoffs for touchdowns in his career.
Super sleeper: Not many scouts travel to Sacred Heart (Conn.) University, but former basketball player DeVeren Johnson is worth a look. The late-blooming wide receiver is 6-4, 212 and had 92 catches for 1,590 yards and 16 touchdowns the past two years. Johnson runs only in the 4.6s, but he catches everything in sight.
Others: Marquise Walker (Michigan); Deion Branch (Louisville); Cliff Russell (Utah); Freddie Milons (Alabama); Ron Johnson (Minnesota); Kendall Newson (Middle Tennessee State); Terry Charles (Portland State); Kahlil Hill (Iowa); Herb Haygood (Michigan State); Darnell Hill (Northern Illinois); Javin Hunter (Notre Dame); Emmett Johnson (Virginia Tech).
Notable: You could assemble a pretty good sprint relay team from the wideouts who ran blazing 40-yard times at the combine. The quartet should include Aaron Lockett of Kansas State (4.31), Auburn's Tim Carter (4.32), Utah's Clifford Russell (4.36) and Javon Walker of Florida State (4.38) ... Carter is related to Hall of Fame tight end Ozzie Newsome and baseball stars Gary Sheffield and Dwight Gooden ... Derrick Gaffney, the father of Florida wideout Jabar Gaffney, was a receiver with the New York Jets ... The father of Kahlil Hill of Iowa is former Buffalo Bills standout J.D. Hill ... Javon Walker of Florida State played two seasons of baseball in the Florida Marlins organization ... Tiny Widener College actually has two prospects, Jim Jones and Michael Coleman, in this draft. It's the same school that produced former Atlanta Falcons star Billy "White Shoes" Johnson ... Aaron Lockett of Kansas State is the younger brother of Washington Redskins wide receiver Kevin Lockett.
Len Pasquarelli is an ESPN.com senior writer.
His name is sliding but I'd love to see him in a Viking uniform. I guess his speed is a drawback, but he's got everything else. He's just like Keyshawn Johnson.
bud,
I personally couldn't care less if we get Bates or not.
but you're looking for a WR to replace CC! i'm sure you'll agree that walsh can't fill a starter's role. is there anybody else currently on the roster that you're excited about seeing in CC's x-slot? i can't believe that there is.
as for the draft, nobody is really worth taking at #7, and it's not too likely they'll pluck a go-to guy in the 2nd round. bates is the best FA with the kind of experience, potential, and health that your club needs right now. that's not only my eval, it's the vikings too.
He's just like Keyshawn Johnson.
i hope you're talking physically and not mentally, lol!
johnson. minnesota. he's a norske, right?
get some MORE offense.........YOU'RE DEFENSE IS REALLY SET.
LMAO !
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sammy,
isn't it cool? we can slam old deephole to kingdom come, and he has to pretend that we're on his ignore list.
gunnery sgt! are your men locked & loaded?
repo wants to join a seminary for the singles scene....
(National Champs, YEAH BABY!)
BATES is the real deal.
check his BIG TEN stats.
BATES is the real deal
...in a game of old maid.
Almost two weeks after signing D'Wayne Bates to an offer sheet and having Chicago match it, the Vikings got the wide receiver they wanted via a waiver claim.
The Vikings got the news they have been waiting to hear for almost two weeks. They finally got their man, D'Wayne Bates, signed as a No. 3 receiver.
Bates was signed to a three-year, $2.85 million offer sheet on March 27, but the Bears matched the offer just before the deadline on April 3. However, shortly after matching the offer, the Bears front office made it clear that they were looking to trade Bates or lower his cap number and avoid a $550,000 roster bonus due two days later.
A trade would have allowed Chicago to receive some sort of compensation for the restricted free agent despite a clerical error that hindered that compensation should they have not matched the Vikings' offer to him.
Bates, through his agent, made it clear that he wanted to play for the Vikings after their offer. But the Bears ignored his wishes and manipulated the system to keep the Vikings from having the only chance at him. When Bates refused to restructure the offer sheet the Bears matched last week, the Bears released him before they were required to pay his roster bonus.
Since, the Vikings have been waiting the allotted three business days for Bates to go through waivers before finding out today of their fate with the receiver.
The Vikings have now addressed their need at pass rusher, signing Miami's Lorenzo Bromell Tuesday to give them depth at the position.
Coming into free agency, the Vikings had some concerns on the defensive end position -- among several others.
Those concerns have been allayed, since the Vikings have now invested as much as $30 million over five years in the position. After signing Kenny Mixon last month, the Vikings added Mixon's backup Lorenzo Bromell Tuesday.
Bromell, a pass rush specialist with more than 20 sacks in four years despite just three starts, signed a five-year deal for $11 million, which includes a $2 million signing bonus. With incentives the contract could be worth as much as $15 million.
The Vikings now have Mixon, Bromell, Talance Sawyer and Lance Johnstone signed to play DE.
WEDNESDAY NOTES
I think Bates will be a good #2 or #3 WR. I like the moves the Vikings have made so far. It will be interesting to see what they do during the draft. Will they stay with the #7 pick or trade down for more picks? Depending on who is available at #7, moving down may not be a bad idea. Especially if the right deal is made.
The signing of defensive end Lorenzo Bromell created somewhat of a logjam
at right end, where Bromell, Talance Sawyer, Lance Johnstone and Patrick
Chukwurah were all expected to see playing time. One option is to move
Chukwurah to outside linebacker, where the Vikings have at least one starting
position open.
This is easy, so goodbye to Johnstone and move Chukwurah to LB. Sawyer and Bromell at right DE will be solid.
The Vikings had set their sights on WR Jerome Pathon from the time free agency began but lost out to New Orleans Wednesday, leaving the option open to consider a draft run at a top WR.
The Vikings had hoped to fill the big shoes of Cris Carter with a guy wearing one big shoe -- Colts WR Jerome Pathon, who is recovering from foot surgery.
Pathon had been a target of the Vikings since free agency began, but he opted to turn down an offer from the Vikings to sign with New Orleans late Wednesday.
The Saints had a deal on the table with Pathon last week, but sweetened the pot by increasing his signing bonus to $1 million on a four-year, $10 million contract. With a base salary of just $525,000, Pathon will be a limited risk if it is determined he isn't fully recovered from his injury.
From what VU is being told, the Vikings were a little upset with the development, because they made a similar offer of more than $2 million a season on a four-year deal, but Pathon opted for the deal offered by the Saints. The Vikings had hoped having offensive coordinator Scott Linehan, who coached Pathon in college, would be an incentive to come, but he now joins a growing list of former Vikings in the Big Easy.
THURSDAY NOTES
Newsday also reports that the Seattle Seahawks and the Minnesota Vikings were offered the chance to bid on Strahan, but declined. "Not interested," Vikings coach Mike Tice said. "He doesn't fit into what we're doing."Tice recalls that the Giants wanted high draft picks in return for Strahan.
SOURCE: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.cfm
doesn't fit in with what you're doing? what's that, stopping the run & getting to the quarterback?
No it would be wasting to much money and draft picks on a team that needs more then one player to help the defense. I like the approach they are using. Sign a bunch of realitively good players and put them in a good coaching scheme. I think they are following the same kind of plan that Chicago used to build up their team. The Vikes defense will be better then last year. Of course that will not take much. =)
Strahan? nah thanks.
(cough) FIX! (cough)
I can see why GREEN BAY fans would like him. Fits in with their QB.
(cough) FIX! (cough)
FAVRE = TAKES PLAYS OFF!
now tice passes up on grady jackson @ DT for
the same coin he dealt to d'wayne bates.
how's that go, 10th?
"stay hot?"