One of my sisters and her family are coming to town in a few weeks. The thing they're most excited about is catching a Twins game.
Although my sis met her husband in MO, he's a Minnesotan and the biggest twins fan I know. When the Twins would play in St Louis or KC, he'd drive up from Springfield to catch the games.
They moved to Tennessee a few years back and haven't caught a game in a while.
He can't wait to take their kids to the Dome for they've never been to a Twins home game.
Seems to me to make perfect sense to have Milwaukee in our league
MIL went to from the AL "back" (reference milwaukee braves) to the NL in 1998, the first team to do so in the modern era. the switch resulted from the expansion of the AZ diamondbacks, and the subsequent odd amount of teams in both leagues: 15 AL teams & 15 NL teams. had the switch not occurred, it would've required one team in each league be idle every day. while there is inter-league play, it's a cluster to do it other than for the "fun of playing." as a result, the brewers' division (NL Central) is the largest division in MLB with 6 teams; the "standard" is 5 teams. KC was the other team rumored to be in line for the jump to the NL in '98, but because a certain individual was acting commish AND owner/father of the owner of milwaukee at the time, the brewers got the nod. as for a brewers' switch back to the AL, it's just not feasible until there's more expansion. add to that the fact that milwaukee fans loved the old braves and the NL. most are extremely happy to be back in a "purist's game" (no DH) in the same division as the cards and cubbies, myself included. i'll take a 1-0 pitcher's game with sound base running and advancing the runner over a homerun derby any day. the beauty of baseball lies in the fact that it's the only game where the defense controls the ball....
"just don't order hot dogs before the 3rd inning :)"
This city has a massive hot dog jones. It's just nutty with people eating at Twins games. Those obscenely large ones are consumed with abandon. I can't eat hot dogs there any more after seeing the ones that are the size of an adult forearm, covered with everything. You lose your appetite for hot dogs.
People are up and down, and up and down. Some seem oblivious that there is some type of athletic event taking place during their feast. They buy whole pizzas.
'There's a baseball game going here. Interested?'
I heard about a stadium awhile ago (I think it's in the Twins farm system, maybe New Brighton) that have "no eating zones" at the stadium.
What's the big gripe on having a brat and a beer at the game ? Let's face it there's plenty of downtime during the average game. I mean as long as the guy isn't one of the jack in the boxes who's up and down every 2 minutes who cares. I get mine before the game and am done before the National Anthem is ever played.
The Twins just needed to score 3 runs to win last night.
Hope they didn't use up their weekly allotment in scoring 23.
I turned on the TV in the middle of Mark Wholers' time on the mound. I felt sorry for him. He's got great stuff, but when it goes bad, he looks pitiful. He's had a tought time, and he didn't need that. He can take comfort in the fact he wasn't alone, anyway.
Man the Twins opened a can of whoop ass last night on the tribe. Damn that had to be embarrasing. I agree Rick, let's hope they didn't use up their weekly allotment of runs. Then again in cases of the same record doesn't runs for vs. against count in the final standings ? Either way I turned it on during the sixth and it was already 13 to 1 when I flipped it on. I thought it was a wrong box score. WoW. Go Twins. Glad our power seems to be coming back.
in baseball they have a pre-playoff game, luv. i think it was in '87 we ended up having one before the al playoffs because there was a tie in the standings.
Thanks for the education Ares. As I told you I'm not a student of the game, I just enjoy watching it. Thanks.
Rick,
Think there might have been just a touch of downtime at the game lastnight to have a brat or are you still glued to your seat in the 8th when it's 21 to 2 ? :)
but the hotdogs do taste better at the park for some reason.
no doubt. plumpers with secret stadium sauce a packet of carcinogenic mustard. second best treat is the delicate art of chewing seeds while downing a leinie.
second best treat is the delicate balance of chewing a mouthful of seeds while downing a beer.
A delicate process to say the least :) Something about beer and dogs tasting better at the park. Perhaps it's because you've just been duped into paying $9.00 for .38 cents worth of food. You just think it tastes better ;)
Those aisles at the Dome are full enough to look like a fire drill is taking place whether it's 1-0 or 23-2.
But the worst I saw was at the BankOne Ball Park in Phoenix last year at a D-Backs - Braves game. Around the 7th inning, vendors came out with armloads of long, narrow balloons like the kind people form into animals.
For two innings you had to look over a sea of waving ballons. Kids were bopping strangers over the head with them. Finally enough of them broke so the game could actually come into view again.
I'm probably more of a curmudgeon than I need to be. But there must have been a time in history when the game was enough of an attraction.
how's that? one of the alleged sticking points in a new vikes' stadium deal is that mccombs also wants the land that the dome is on, once it's torn down. huuuuuge amount of coin for that downtown land on top of a new stadium. plus he's getting the tube steak & licorice rope income to boot?
I'm probably more of a curmudgeon than I need to be.
negatory. i'll trade cigars and hot dogs at the park for foam fingers and salads any day. the brewers have "mouse pad day" coming up for the kids. what the hell was wrong with club-your-brother bat day, thin-as-paper rain coat day, and good-for-one-sitting seat cushion day?
10th man is gandhi for ring-on-finger/joint checking accout day....
Rick, I admit the baloon thing would have driven me nuts. I would have founsd a pin and had some fun ;)
I try to be courteous about it and always feel guilty even if I have to head to the animal troughs they call a mens bathroom at the dome. Sorry, pardon me, excuse me, sorry, be right back, oops, scuze me, thank you. After 15 or so akward exchanges you're free to walk the steep ailes. You find a restroom and head into those god forsaken long metal animal troughs they call a urinal. Heavan forbid you're at the slanted end where it hit's the drain and it looks like the whitewater raft ride at valley fair. Perhaps i'm being the crumudgeon now but that is about the most disgusting idea in the world. Granted it keeps the line moving but I feel like a head of livestock when I have to go to the bathroom there. Now you're done and you stop and get a refreshment. Only to look down the aisle and know everyone is looking at you going "oh great, he's back and I suppose I have to get up now" Scuze me, sorry, thanks, oops, thank you, Hi, pardon me....
One other rant, other than bathroom breaks etc. they ought to teach standing ettiqutite. I mean c'mon buddy they caught an infield fly, big deal, I don't think we need to stand or start the wave for an infield fly.
Well I'm sure it was hard to sell tickets in the off-season if they weren't even sure there would be a season this year. Talk of a strike doesn't help much either. But with the way they are playing, and school getting out, hopefully attendance will pick up. Oh, and playing teams not named Detroit, Tampa Bay and Kansas City should help too.
There's more than enough disillusionment out there right now to cut into game attendance. But if you like watching baseball, you can now say that you'll see top-notch baseball if you go to the Dome. The Twins can compete with any team that comes to town.
If the Twins hang on, they're going to be a big sports story.
small market, dems da breaks. look, the brewers promised they would draw more people with a new stadium. that increased revenue would allow them to bankroll a competitive team. everybody's done their part, except the brewers. the call-in phones are ringing every night in milwaukee about this. if things don't change, there will be a lynch mob stringing bud'd daughter, wendy, from the rafters of "her" stadium.
Yeah, we all know why. Uncle Bud.
nooooo, it was the new stadium. if pohlad gets it built, minnie will have an all-star game within 2 years of it being operational too.
That's fine and dandy but, you could have built a convention center.
the midwest express center was complete just prior to miller park, along with a new hotel & remodeled mall downtown. the milwaukee art museum had it's incredible
open during the same year as the stadium, and the bradley center (bucks, marquette univ) was also remodeled and expanded for the same amount of $$$ that it cost to build it 15 years ago. i'm sorry thx, but maybe now you've got an idea of why the wisconsin folks roll their eyes at minnesota's stadium dawdling. just get the damn things built.
I don't know much about the dynamics of season ticket sales, but it seems to me that a small yard that seats 35,000 like the one they want to build in the Twin Cities, could be filled pretty often with single game and walk-on purchases and 11,000 season ticket holders.
the real money generators were the boxes, but even that's changed. stadium deals must now include year-round money makers, especially for an NFL team as they only play 8 regular season home games. point in case: GB packers. GB has 56,000+ on their season ticket waiting list, yet still did 2 renovations in the 90's to increase the number of boxes. the current lambeau field renovation not only increases the number of boxes, it also includes an atrium with year-round restaurant and fan shop. miller park also has a TGI Friday's and fan shop. it's great to go grab a dinner on the balcony overlooking the outfield grass in winter.
i'm sorry thx, but maybe now you've got an idea of why the wisconsin folks roll their eyes at minnesota's stadium dawdling.
And now you know why it was a waste of money. 3,000 less season tickets than last year (This in their second season in Miller Park). Estimates of 1,000,000 less tickets sold by seasons end this year.
They're rolling their eyes all right. At how silly they were building a stadium.
just get the damn things built.
Not with my tax dollars. Not if I have anything to do with it.
could be filled pretty often with single game and walk-on purchases and 11,000 season ticket holders.
I think there's a difference between Milwaukee and Minnesota though. We have this small-market thing figured out. The Twins seemt to know how to get talent and develop it. They have a solid young team who plays the game really well in an all-around sense. They are solid offensively, in hitting and baserunning. They are solid defensively also. The Twins minor league system is stocked with talent that could be called upon to make the jump to the big leagues, as well as good talent still developing at the lower levels. The Brewers haven't won anything since the early to mid 80's, as far as I can remember. Recently they've been known mostly for their owner who has connections to the commissioner's office. The stuff off the field, not on the field. Last year they struck out a whole heck of a lot of times, and I don't know that it's changed much lately. Trades and free agents haven't paid off very well. From what I know of it, their roster has a lot of players from other teams. Granted, the Brewers could do like the Twins and develop talent to produce a good team on the field eventually. I just don't know that it will happen though.
The cost of having "having this small-market thing figured out" is years of losing teams as young players mature.
I think the Twins did the best they could with what they had, particularly during the Kelly years. The team seemingly learns and re-learns fundamentals on the job.
"Not with my tax dollars. Not if I have anything to do with it."
I think there's a difference between Milwaukee and Minnesota though. We have this small-market thing figured out.
Trades and free agents haven't paid off very well.
agreed & agreed (machias shaking head). you've hit on the 2 biggest problems with the brewers being a small market team. they've NEVER developed a farm system that's rewarded them with good talent. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! so the crew has tried to do it via trades & FA--ouch. the brewer's new GM is from atlanta. he's finally starting to plant the seeds in the minors that should result in dividends down the line. so yes thx, it's a bad product on the field in MKE and fans aren't coming out to the park because of it. it's also a catch 22: do you build for the future and get a cycle of successful players that rejuvenates itself, or do you get short-term gains via FA when a small market team simply cannot compete that way? both MPLS and MKE should be punching the revenue sharing ticket with both hands, whatever our loyalties.
One year in the future the Brewers will have success. They stadium will have been a settled issue. And all the fair weather Brewers fans will bask in the winning teams.
Success doesn't always happen overnight. And some people have the attention span of a 4-year-old in an amusement park.
I think that a small-market team can't compete solely through FA, but that it will definitely help. Having someone come from the Atlanta organization will help the Brewers, but things need to happen through every level, every position. The Twins had good coaches who liked to teach fundamentals. Kelly may not have been the best with handling young players, but he did a really good job of teaching them how to play the game. He had a certain kind of player in mind that he wanted to play for him. The minor league coaches were good teachers also. The scouts did a pretty good job, working hard to determine who could become a player down the road, assessing these players on their skills. Management needs to do well, knowing who to pick, who to sign in free agency, who to trade and for whom, etc. I remember the lean years, when we had Bob Tewksbury, Roberto Kelly, Butch Huskey. The Twins got veterans to help fill in holes and mentor the younger players, all the while not being extravagently overspent for. Even better, the Twins traded some of these players for younger talent to build around. For the Brewers, they have some talent. I say they shoot for rebuilding. Keep their younger skill players, but don't be afraid to trade them for the right deal. They have some older veteran players who might be tempting for a playoff-contending team. Why not get young talent for the rebuilding process in return for them? If the Brewers are going in a good direction, I think it would be easier for them to get the personnel within the organization they want. They've courted Paul Molitor and other former Brewer greats for management positions. I think it would be more attractive with a good team and good structure. But for now, it's fun to chuckle at how Bud is running MLB and seeing how his beloved Brewers are being run and performing.
I can't remeber where I heard it but someone had a good idea to the revenue sharing thing. Why not put another franchise or two into big market, big money areas ? It would help spread the dough around.
As far as the Twins attendance this year, I think as the season goes on they will see their attendance go up. I have gone to two so far and plan to go to more as time allows. I think part of the problem is two fold, I think the contraction issue and the possiblity of another strike is weighing on people. People are really getting fed up, they will probably not be able to resist if they are still contending in Aguust. But if baseball strikes again it will be another huge blow to baseball. It will probably recover as it always has but ouch, would it be huge and be devastating to baseball for many years. I am really going to be pissed if they do, especially with us having a good year. I have vowed to never go to another game again if they strike. I wonder how many others will ? The park is less important as the product on the field. Put up a good team and they will show up.
it was within the last decade. when we won the series in '91 it was still 2 divisions per league. they were with us then.
Really ? Damn my memory is getting worse, well they say it's the first to go.
I thought they said it was the second thing to go.
I won't mention the first.
hahaha!
One of my sisters and her family are coming to town in a few weeks. The thing they're most excited about is catching a Twins game.
Although my sis met her husband in MO, he's a Minnesotan and the biggest twins fan I know. When the Twins would play in St Louis or KC, he'd drive up from Springfield to catch the games.
They moved to Tennessee a few years back and haven't caught a game in a while.
He can't wait to take their kids to the Dome for they've never been to a Twins home game.
hahaha!
What? I didn't mean you. I mean, I wouldn't know. I mean, I'll shut up now.
just don't order hot dogs before the 3rd inning :)
I'll shut up now.
good idea.
Seems to me to make perfect sense to have Milwaukee in our league
Peekin' through the keyhole, Machias?
:-)
Just playin' with ya, Machias. You're always welcome here.
"just don't order hot dogs before the 3rd inning :)"
This city has a massive hot dog jones. It's just nutty with people eating at Twins games. Those obscenely large ones are consumed with abandon. I can't eat hot dogs there any more after seeing the ones that are the size of an adult forearm, covered with everything. You lose your appetite for hot dogs.
People are up and down, and up and down. Some seem oblivious that there is some type of athletic event taking place during their feast. They buy whole pizzas.
'There's a baseball game going here. Interested?'
I heard about a stadium awhile ago (I think it's in the Twins farm system, maybe New Brighton) that have "no eating zones" at the stadium.
My wife said "I'd go there."
Yes but the hotdogs do taste better at the park for some reason. I can't say why, but they just do.
Baseball isn't interesting enough for some people. So they eat.
Rick,
What's the big gripe on having a brat and a beer at the game ? Let's face it there's plenty of downtime during the average game. I mean as long as the guy isn't one of the jack in the boxes who's up and down every 2 minutes who cares. I get mine before the game and am done before the National Anthem is ever played.
Besides, don't the Twins need the $$$$ from concessions?
I think the $$$$ from concessions goes to the non-profits working the stands.
All I know is if you get somehow get offended by someone eating a brat you have issues.
actually, a lot of it goes to the vikings.
The Twins just needed to score 3 runs to win last night.
Hope they didn't use up their weekly allotment in scoring 23.
I turned on the TV in the middle of Mark Wholers' time on the mound. I felt sorry for him. He's got great stuff, but when it goes bad, he looks pitiful. He's had a tought time, and he didn't need that. He can take comfort in the fact he wasn't alone, anyway.
Man the Twins opened a can of whoop ass last night on the tribe. Damn that had to be embarrasing. I agree Rick, let's hope they didn't use up their weekly allotment of runs. Then again in cases of the same record doesn't runs for vs. against count in the final standings ?
Either way I turned it on during the sixth and it was already 13 to 1 when I flipped it on. I thought it was a wrong box score. WoW. Go Twins. Glad our power seems to be coming back.
in baseball they have a pre-playoff game, luv. i think it was in '87 we ended up having one before the al playoffs because there was a tie in the standings.
Thanks for the education Ares. As I told you I'm not a student of the game, I just enjoy watching it. Thanks.
Rick,
Think there might have been just a touch of downtime at the game lastnight to have a brat or are you still glued to your seat in the 8th when it's 21 to 2 ? :)
but the hotdogs do taste better at the park for some reason.
A delicate process to say the least :) Something about beer and dogs tasting better at the park. Perhaps it's because you've just been duped into paying $9.00 for .38 cents worth of food. You just think it tastes better ;)
Those aisles at the Dome are full enough to look like a fire drill is taking place whether it's 1-0 or 23-2.
But the worst I saw was at the BankOne Ball Park in Phoenix last year at a D-Backs - Braves game. Around the 7th inning, vendors came out with armloads of long, narrow balloons like the kind people form into animals.
For two innings you had to look over a sea of waving ballons. Kids were bopping strangers over the head with them. Finally enough of them broke so the game could actually come into view again.
I'm probably more of a curmudgeon than I need to be. But there must have been a time in history when the game was enough of an attraction.
actually, a lot of it goes to the vikings.
I'm probably more of a curmudgeon than I need to be.
10th man is gandhi for ring-on-finger/joint checking accout day....
Rick,
I admit the baloon thing would have driven me nuts. I would have founsd a pin and had some fun ;)
I try to be courteous about it and always feel guilty even if I have to head to the animal troughs they call a mens bathroom at the dome. Sorry, pardon me, excuse me, sorry, be right back, oops, scuze me, thank you. After 15 or so akward exchanges you're free to walk the steep ailes. You find a restroom and head into those god forsaken long metal animal troughs they call a urinal. Heavan forbid you're at the slanted end where it hit's the drain and it looks like the whitewater raft ride at valley fair. Perhaps i'm being the crumudgeon now but that is about the most disgusting idea in the world. Granted it keeps the line moving but I feel like a head of livestock when I have to go to the bathroom there. Now you're done and you stop and get a refreshment. Only to look down the aisle and know everyone is looking at you going "oh great, he's back and I suppose I have to get up now" Scuze me, sorry, thanks, oops, thank you, Hi, pardon me....
One other rant, other than bathroom breaks etc. they ought to teach standing ettiqutite. I mean c'mon buddy they caught an infield fly, big deal, I don't think we need to stand or start the wave for an infield fly.
machias, that's how i understand the vikings' lease on the dome is written. that particular clause may no longer exist.
Antonio Freeman
If you got time, get ou to a game next week.
Story today in the Strib says they're 60K behind from last year.
No reason for that.
We're going to two games when Atlanta gets to town.
The Tribe ran into a buzz saw this week. They'll be happy to leave Minnesota.
The Twins are a great squad this year. Now that they are assured a 2003 season, I hope the fan support picks up.
Well I'm sure it was hard to sell tickets in the off-season if they weren't even sure there would be a season this year. Talk of a strike doesn't help much either. But with the way they are playing, and school getting out, hopefully attendance will pick up. Oh, and playing teams not named Detroit, Tampa Bay and Kansas City should help too.
There's more than enough disillusionment out there right now to cut into game attendance. But if you like watching baseball, you can now say that you'll see top-notch baseball if you go to the Dome. The Twins can compete with any team that comes to town.
If the Twins hang on, they're going to be a big sports story.
go to the Dome
selig says, "come to milwaukee, and bring the kids!"
I'm sure he does say "Come to Milwaukee" "PLEASE!".
What did I read, at this rate attendence will be down 1,000,000 from last year?
Season ticket sales down 20% from last year.
It goes to show you folks, a new stadium doesn't mean squat.
"a new stadium doesn't mean squat."
But it says home.
Melts your heart.
It's the Twins, people.
a new stadium doesn't mean squat
This is about keeping Major League Baseball in the Twin Cities. The sport has issues. But it's still Major League Baseball.
And that's meaning enough.
it just means the team is staying put,
Who cares if they stay put? 11,000 season ticket holders?
Pppffft!
What about the rest of the population of Milwaukee? It appears they don't give a damn because they don't attend the games.
the all-star game is being hosted,
Yeah, we all know why. Uncle Bud.
and conventioneers are awed by the facility....
That's fine and dandy but, you could have built a convention center. One without a non working retractable roof. LOL!
11,000 season ticket holders?
Yeah, we all know why. Uncle Bud.
That's fine and dandy but, you could have built a convention center.
"11,000 season ticket holders? "
I don't know much about the dynamics of season ticket sales, but it seems to me that a small yard that seats 35,000 like the one they want to build in the Twin Cities, could be filled pretty often with single game and walk-on purchases and 11,000 season ticket holders.
single game and walk-on purchases
i'm sorry thx, but maybe now you've got an idea of why the wisconsin folks roll their eyes at minnesota's stadium dawdling.
And now you know why it was a waste of money. 3,000 less season tickets than last year (This in their second season in Miller Park). Estimates of 1,000,000 less tickets sold by seasons end this year.
They're rolling their eyes all right. At how silly they were building a stadium.
just get the damn things built.
Not with my tax dollars. Not if I have anything to do with it.
could be filled pretty often with single game and walk-on purchases and 11,000 season ticket holders.
It ain't happening in Miwaukee.
I think there's a difference between Milwaukee and Minnesota though. We have this small-market thing figured out. The Twins seemt to know how to get talent and develop it. They have a solid young team who plays the game really well in an all-around sense. They are solid offensively, in hitting and baserunning. They are solid defensively also. The Twins minor league system is stocked with talent that could be called upon to make the jump to the big leagues, as well as good talent still developing at the lower levels. The Brewers haven't won anything since the early to mid 80's, as far as I can remember. Recently they've been known mostly for their owner who has connections to the commissioner's office. The stuff off the field, not on the field. Last year they struck out a whole heck of a lot of times, and I don't know that it's changed much lately. Trades and free agents haven't paid off very well. From what I know of it, their roster has a lot of players from other teams. Granted, the Brewers could do like the Twins and develop talent to produce a good team on the field eventually. I just don't know that it will happen though.
The cost of having "having this small-market thing figured out" is years of losing teams as young players mature.
I think the Twins did the best they could with what they had, particularly during the Kelly years. The team seemingly learns and re-learns fundamentals on the job.
"Not with my tax dollars. Not if I have anything to do with it."
You probably won't. Thank God.
I think there's a difference between Milwaukee and Minnesota though. We have this small-market thing figured out.
Trades and free agents haven't paid off very well.
Is John Shurholz now GM at Milwaukee?
One year in the future the Brewers will have success. They stadium will have been a settled issue. And all the fair weather Brewers fans will bask in the winning teams.
Success doesn't always happen overnight. And some people have the attention span of a 4-year-old in an amusement park.
I think that a small-market team can't compete solely through FA, but that it will definitely help. Having someone come from the Atlanta organization will help the Brewers, but things need to happen through every level, every position. The Twins had good coaches who liked to teach fundamentals. Kelly may not have been the best with handling young players, but he did a really good job of teaching them how to play the game. He had a certain kind of player in mind that he wanted to play for him. The minor league coaches were good teachers also. The scouts did a pretty good job, working hard to determine who could become a player down the road, assessing these players on their skills. Management needs to do well, knowing who to pick, who to sign in free agency, who to trade and for whom, etc. I remember the lean years, when we had Bob Tewksbury, Roberto Kelly, Butch Huskey. The Twins got veterans to help fill in holes and mentor the younger players, all the while not being extravagently overspent for. Even better, the Twins traded some of these players for younger talent to build around. For the Brewers, they have some talent. I say they shoot for rebuilding. Keep their younger skill players, but don't be afraid to trade them for the right deal. They have some older veteran players who might be tempting for a playoff-contending team. Why not get young talent for the rebuilding process in return for them? If the Brewers are going in a good direction, I think it would be easier for them to get the personnel within the organization they want. They've courted Paul Molitor and other former Brewer greats for management positions. I think it would be more attractive with a good team and good structure. But for now, it's fun to chuckle at how Bud is running MLB and seeing how his beloved Brewers are being run and performing.
I can't remeber where I heard it but someone had a good idea to the revenue sharing thing. Why not put another franchise or two into big market, big money areas ? It would help spread the dough around.
As far as the Twins attendance this year, I think as the season goes on they will see their attendance go up. I have gone to two so far and plan to go to more as time allows. I think part of the problem is two fold, I think the contraction issue and the possiblity of another strike is weighing on people. People are really getting fed up, they will probably not be able to resist if they are still contending in Aguust. But if baseball strikes again it will be another huge blow to baseball. It will probably recover as it always has but ouch, would it be huge and be devastating to baseball for many years. I am really going to be pissed if they do, especially with us having a good year. I have vowed to never go to another game again if they strike. I wonder how many others will ? The park is less important as the product on the field. Put up a good team and they will show up.