"Does our system, with its domination by reactionary, patriarchial assumptions on the one hand, and Playboy/MTV-inspired hormonal excess on the other, have a realistic capacity for achieving any of the aformentioned requisites? "
Not when you compare it to Europe. "Patriarchial Assumptions" are certainly alive in, say, Italy, and TV is twice as racy as the US. And it's full of sexist stereotypes.
Yet teen pregnancy is a fraction of the US.
"Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland have abortion rates below 10 per 1,000 women of reproductive age; in all other countries of Western Europe and in the United States and Canada, rates are 10-23 per 1,000. "
Source Alan Guttmacher Institute
Seems like Europe has a better handle on this segment of its society. I've always wondered why that is.
One would expect abortion to be lower in more advanced countries.
Those where general social supports are most comprehensive.
And where free, clinic-based education/information and contraceptive availability are an accepted, widespread norm, without American-style stigma imposed from ultraconservative sources.
the question of my immorality will be decided elsewhereby another , jethro - you may stop presuming.
Yes, Europe has fewer and they have more comprehensive social services, but they also pay for it - through the nose. Some of us do not consider money more important than people but there are those among us who do. Taxation must remain the lowest of the developed world ANd to enable us to get away with it, we also have this personal responsibility ethos. As has been gone into before.
Our town's newspaper recently implemented a policy of publishing so-called "commitment announcements" whereby gays publicize their serious relationships with one another in much the same way that straights do when news of their impending marriages appear.
Predictably, conservatives have gone bonkers.
Terminating their subscriptions, threatening boycotts.
To me, the uproar is ridiculous -- and profoundly sad.
Why do we worry so much about how some people love...and so little about how, and why, we war?
There needs to be societal standards. If there are going to be such standards they need to be enforced. That is done by pointing out those that violate them.
Well, if you use the Bible as a guideline, there's also a commandment about bearing false witness against your neighbor that you should consider occasionally before you feel "compelled to say something."
If that's not a guideline, I guess you're free to say whatever you want.
Today before the house we have a bill to ban Partial Birth Abortions. The house committee approved the ban. Now it goes on for the next step. I hope it passes. Partial Birth Abortion is such a horrid, barbaric act!
Pit, Because I do not prefer a women to suffer is precisely why abortion should not be promoted. It has no positive benefits because having an abortion causes a tremendous amount of suffering physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
It is a shame the propoganda of the Abortion movement has so many fooled.
A more reasonable solution is to legally and universally recognize that life begins at conception and therefore should be respected, cherished, and preserved from that moment on.
Again your mythology... hell doesn't exist and you make your god sounds like a mafia don...
Yes and you base your BELIEF that hell doesn't exist is based on what? All I can tell you is that you better pray on your death bed that you are right and I am wrong.
As to me, I'Ll always be for the choice of the ONLY person concerned, the woman... And if she wants to get rid of the parasiote, good for her!
There is another person concerened, the unborn child. You don't have any children do you Pitiricus? If you did you would understand. That is if you give an damn about them that is.
jethro, i assume you're christian and are referring to hell after death. now, i was raised christian, and taught that hell is eternal damnation. however, i've come to not believe that theory. if god is so forgiving, and thw soul lives on after the death of the body, why can the soul not be forgiven after the body dies?
yes it does seem more positive to cherish the life. but just as you can't legislate people out of cars and into buses (at least not in minnesota, as i assume you, paula, are not from around these parts :), you can't legislate the mindset into people that life begins at conception.
"Does our system, with its domination by reactionary, patriarchial assumptions on the one hand, and Playboy/MTV-inspired hormonal excess on the other, have a realistic capacity for achieving any of the aformentioned requisites? "
Not when you compare it to Europe. "Patriarchial Assumptions" are certainly alive in, say, Italy, and TV is twice as racy as the US. And it's full of sexist stereotypes.
Yet teen pregnancy is a fraction of the US.
"Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland have abortion rates below 10 per 1,000 women of reproductive age; in all other countries of Western Europe and in the United States and Canada, rates are 10-23 per 1,000. "
Source Alan Guttmacher Institute
Seems like Europe has a better handle on this segment of its society. I've always wondered why that is.
One would expect abortion to be lower in more advanced countries.
Those where general social supports are most comprehensive.
And where free, clinic-based education/information and contraceptive availability are an accepted, widespread norm, without American-style stigma imposed from ultraconservative sources.
"...without American-style stigma imposed from ultraconservative sources."
Which has led to Europe's Moral Depravity, we'll now probably hear about.
A little shame goes a long way on the right. And a lot of shame goes even further,
You should know, Rick.
jethro:
Have you replaced Sloop as the person who says: Agree with more, or you're immoral.
LOL!
Stupid as usual, fold. Worthless piece of .......!
Come on Jethro, that was funny!
It may have been funny, but it would have been just as funny without his references to me.
I'd agree with you except you both are always at each other.
Carry on..
Oh we will carry on all right.
the question of my immorality will be decided elsewhereby another , jethro - you may stop presuming.
Yes, Europe has fewer and they have more comprehensive social services, but they also pay for it - through the nose. Some of us do not consider money more important than people but there are those among us who do. Taxation must remain the lowest of the developed world ANd to enable us to get away with it, we also have this personal responsibility ethos. As has been gone into before.
So the choice is clear. How do you vote?
A new topic for discussion:
Our town's newspaper recently implemented a policy of publishing
so-called "commitment announcements" whereby gays publicize their
serious relationships with one another in much the same way that
straights do when news of their impending marriages appear.
Predictably, conservatives have gone bonkers.
Terminating their subscriptions, threatening boycotts.
To me, the uproar is ridiculous -- and profoundly sad.
Why do we worry so much about how some people love...and so little about how, and why, we war?
Kit, your immorality has already been proven by your words.
"your immorality has already been proven by your words."
"You have no soul"
"You will die with no honor"
Jethro is reverting to his posts that resemble cruel fortune-cookie messages. 'Course I made up the last two, but they'd fit.
I'd save those and market them, jethro.
Fortune cookies in a sadistric Chinese restaurant.
There needs to be societal standards. If there are going to be such standards they need to be enforced. That is done by pointing out those that violate them.
There are societal standards, Jethro.
You just don't like them.
There are a few standards. But allowing abortion on a whim is not a standard. It is a lack of a societal standard.
You make no sense at all.
Hello THX, Ares, Bill, Luv 2 Fly, Jethro, Dan, Those Medalling Kids, Alice, Kit, and Dennis!
I am back from vacation now.
Hope you all have been well.
Hi Paula, a belated welcome back to you. I must have missed your post.
Bill Fold, that's exactly what I thought when I heard about that story.
Welcome back too Paula, hope your vacation was pleasant.
Bill Fold & THX,
Apparently the guy was to dumb to know that they didn't provide abortions at those clinics.
fold posted the following: MINNESOTA: Shots fired at second clinic BY KERMIT PATTISON
Sounds like an accusation to me.
What a shame abortion is so dangerous for so many.
I wonder if it was a disgruntled customer?
As our President Bush said a few minutes ago "Adoption changes a single life forever".
Promote Adoption!
More than 134,000 children here in the U.S. need stable, loving homes.
call 1-866-USA 0660
or check out the new website sponsored by Bruce Willis and Laura Bush
http://www.adoptuskids.org
You may have to try again due to the heavy traffic at the site. Maybe that is a good sign. :)
Glad to be back. :)
At least Jethro stands for what he believes in despite the heat.
Screwing them both at the same time!
If you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything.
Bush has done well leading our country.
fold, you are hopeless. Your hatred shows again. I thought the post was funny, that's all.
 Can we all agree that "family planning" is a euphemism for "abortion"?
If the Bush administration is interested in population control, then the money should be distributed without strings attached.
But they seem more interested in using the $34 million to make some political point.
In that case, the money should stay in the Treasury. It's the people's money not the Spin Doctor's.
joe
But they seem more interested in using the $34 million to make some political point.
This is the problem with liberals they don't see a difference between politics and morality.
Anyone who claimed to know morality wouldn't say something like that no matter how satisfying and enjoyable they found it to be.
I think anyone that does know morality is compelled to say something like I wrote.
Well, if you use the Bible as a guideline, there's also a commandment about bearing false witness against your neighbor that you should consider occasionally before you feel "compelled to say something."
If that's not a guideline, I guess you're free to say whatever you want.
It wasn't false.
jethro bodine 7/24/02 7:20am
Good article. Thanks for posting it here.
Today before the house we have a bill to ban Partial Birth Abortions. The house committee approved the ban. Now it goes on for the next step. I hope it passes. Partial Birth Abortion is such a horrid, barbaric act!
Paula I 7/24/02 12:20pm
Of course you prefer the woman to suffer...
Well following Rashi, I will say: if needs be the fetus should be dimembered limb by limb!
Well we can see where Pitiricus will be spending eternity.
Pitiricus. 7/24/02 12:21pm
Pit,
Because I do not prefer a women to suffer is precisely why abortion should not be promoted. It has no positive benefits because having an abortion causes a tremendous amount of suffering physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
It is a shame the propoganda of the Abortion movement has so many fooled.
A more reasonable solution is to legally and universally recognize that life begins at conception and therefore should be respected, cherished, and preserved from that moment on.
but then you'd have to get people to agree that life begins at conception, paula. and i don't think that's gonna happen.
btw, welcome back.
but then you'd have to get people to agree that life begins at conception, paula. and i don't think that's gonna happen.
Probably so with the large number of morally obtuse people around.
jethro bodine 7/24/02 12:32pm
Again your mythology... hell doesn't exist and you make your god sounds like a mafia don...
As to me, I'Ll always be for the choice of the ONLY person concerned, the woman... And if she wants to get rid of the parasiote, good for her!
jethro bodine 7/24/02 2:12pm
And given that life doesn't begun at conceptiuon, people won't agree iwth you...
sheesh
another fundie trying to impose his half-baked cred on women's bodies!
Again your mythology... hell doesn't exist and you make your god sounds like a mafia don...
Yes and you base your BELIEF that hell doesn't exist is based on what? All I can tell you is that you better pray on your death bed that you are right and I am wrong.
As to me, I'Ll always be for the choice of the ONLY person concerned, the woman... And if she wants to get rid of the parasiote, good for her!
There is another person concerened, the unborn child. You don't have any children do you Pitiricus? If you did you would understand. That is if you give an damn about them that is.
And given that life doesn't begun at conceptiuon, people won't agree iwth you...
Again that is your BELIEF. And what is it based on? Again you better pray on your death bed that you are right and I am wrong.
another fundie trying to impose his half-baked cred on women's bodies!
No you are one of the morally obtuse people I referred to earlier.
ares 7/24/02 1:43pm
Thanks! :)
In time, perhaps, in time.
If the law was just on my side (and that of most others), they can debate it for centuries to come.
It just seems more positive overall to be able to celebrate and cherish and preserve life from the moment of conception.
jethro, i assume you're christian and are referring to hell after death. now, i was raised christian, and taught that hell is eternal damnation. however, i've come to not believe that theory. if god is so forgiving, and thw soul lives on after the death of the body, why can the soul not be forgiven after the body dies?
yes it does seem more positive to cherish the life. but just as you can't legislate people out of cars and into buses (at least not in minnesota, as i assume you, paula, are not from around these parts :), you can't legislate the mindset into people that life begins at conception.
Paula I 7/24/02 1:40pm
Not according to the APA...http://www.apa.org/releases/abort.html
And not in my experiance... I had an abortion and it was absolutely fine... And my friends who had one also thought it was fine!
jethro bodine 7/24/02 2:24pm
On rationality as well as my religion, quite older than yours, which never believed that god is the monster christians have made of him...
I forgot, also on the authority of the Law and of the rabbis...
Sheesh... You are against abortion? Don't have one... I will if I need one!
jethro bodine 7/24/02 2:24pm
I have children... What has this to do with that..
Nothing!
Paula I 7/24/02 2:36pm
Well don't have an abortion... What another woman decides to do is no business of yours!