"One of the great American tragedies is to have participated in a just war. It's been possible for politicians and movie-makers to encourage us we're always good guys. The Second World War absolutely had to be fought. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. But we never talk about the people we kill. This is never spoken of."
THX. I had some problems with a certain individual on the old PP site. That person is now reporting to their probation officer 2x a month.
I never would have thought the GOP would have gained so many seats in either the House or Senate. Mainstream America moved past the center to the right. The old liberal agenda and ideas of the Democrats no longer work but they never saw it coming. Now their next leader in the House will be an ultra left-winger? Good Luck.
My county had a 72% turnout. A wonderful election.
THX. I had some problems with a certain individual on the old PP site. That person is now reporting to their probation officer 2x a month.
You're kiddin' right? I remember things being nasty at the old PP but not THAT nasty.
I never would have thought the GOP would have gained so many seats in either the House or Senate.
I don't think anyone expected it.
Mainstream America moved past the center to the right. The old liberal agenda and ideas of the Democrats no longer work but they never saw it coming. Now their next leader in the House will be an ultra left-winger? Good Luck.
I agree however, the Republicans need to keep from going to far right, otherwise the pendulum will swing the other way again.
My county had a 72% turnout. A wonderful election.
No doubt! The states voters rallied and had their voices heard. It's wonderful. :-)
THX, I wish I was kidding. The short of it is that someone gained personal information about me. They did not stop when warned. A bait trail was set up and the person took it.
BTW, some very kind people I know have set up other trails for people to follow if they feel so inclined.
PALM BEACH COUNTY, Fla. -- A jury has awarded the widow of teacher Barry Grunow $1.2 million from a gun distributor. Pam Grunow's lawsuit accused Valor Corp of distributing a gun that was "unsafe, defective and lacked features that would have prevented a minor from using it."
The case stems from the murder of teacher Barry Grunow by one of his students. Nathaniel Brazill shot Grunow to death two years ago in a West Palm Beach classroom.
Pam Grunow's lawyer asked for $76 million. But the jury found gun distributor Valor Corporation 5 percent liable for Grunow's death. The owner of the gun and the school board held the most of the liability, the jury found.
The jury didn't find any liability for Nathanial Brazill,who pulled the trigger. Brazill stole the unloaded gun and bullets from a cookie tin stashed away in a dresser drawer of family friend Elmore McCray.
The jury said Grunow's family should get $24 million from the three parties. The school board was told to pay her $10.8 million, and the family friend was told to pay $12 million.
This is the first lawsuit in the country in which a gun company has in any way been held responsible in a murder.
So a 16 year old steals a gun (illegal), takes it to school (illegal) and shoots a teacher (illegal) and he is not responsible? The legal gun distributor, the school that has rules against such things and the neighbor who legally owned the gun and didn't want the kid to have possession of it are all responsible? She would have sued the legal manufacturer as well, but they went out of business 11 years ago.
What the f**k were those jurors thinking? What ever happened to personal responsibility?
"I wouldn't have killed him if I hadn't stolen the gun. No one prevented me from stealing the gun. No one prevented me from bringing it to school. No one prevented me from shooting my teacher. Therefore it's no my fault, it's all their fault".
A poll conducted in England (by a U.S. Republican strategist) has found that 1 in 3 Britons consider George Bush a greater threat to peace than Saddam Hussein.
And then there's this news item:
US Bishops Overwhelmingly Oppose Bush Over War with Iraq
WASHINGTON -- Saying there is little evidence of an imminent threat to the United States, the nation's Catholic bishops overwhelming approved a resolution Wednesday opposing President Bush's threatened war against Iraq.
By a 228-14 vote, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops said the administration lacked "clear and adequate evidence" that military action against Saddam Hussein would be morally justified.
"We fear that to resort to war, under present circumstances and in light of current public information, would not meet the strict conditions in Catholic teaching for overriding the strong presumption against the use of military force," the prelates said...
--S.F. Chronicle
Finally, in case you weren't paying attention, the series of coordinated Oct. 26 anti-war rallies across America and the world were the largest since Vietnam. During that war, it wasn't until 1967 that protests of that magnitude began to appear.
All of this, and the Iraq war hasn't even begun yet.
There's a mighty big fan and a huge pile of shit that the Bush administration's bellicose obsession are about to bring into unprecedentedly messy merger.
With all that the consequences will mean -- for everything from our prestige to our security -- each of us needs to ask a simple question:
"Can I support attacking Iraq, in good conscience?"
They protest a war that HASN'T happened in Iraq, yet they have no problem maintaining a population of sex offenders as priests. Hmmmm. Their credibility has gone out the window.
Hey, the one family sued the gun makers. Maybe you can sue your desk maker? Do they have any safety features to help prevent you from hitting your head on the desk?
The jury didn't find any liability for Nathanial Brazill, who pulled the trigger. Brazill stole the unloaded gun and bullets from a cookie tin stashed away in a dresser drawer of family friend Elmore McCray.
If the shooter isn't responsible how can anyone be responsible? Is the manufacturer responsible simply because it may have some money?
If the shooter isn't responsible how can anyone be responsible? Is the manufacturer responsible simply because it may have some money?
actually guys, it was the distributor who was found to be responsible, but that's just a technicality. i thought everyone knew that whoever had the most money is the responsible party. always.
The Democrats were singling out anti-abortionists. Although I don't believe groups should be able to use bankruptcy to get out of their debts, the Democrats cannot use the law to single out groups they don't agree with.
President George Bush is seen by a third of Britons as a bigger threat to world safety than Saddam Hussein, according to a new poll conducted by a senior US Republican and due to be broadcast today...
The weighted poll of 3,200 people throughout the country was conducted for Channel 4 by Frank Luntz, a senior Republican strategist, based on the YouGov sample.
Similar polling has been undertaken by Downing Street as it contemplates how to sell a war on Iraq.
The Channel 4 poll found that a third of the British public have no trust at all in Mr Bush, and many actually fear him. In a straight choice between Mr Bush and President Saddam as to who poses the greater threat to world peace, 32% said Mr Bush and 49% said President Saddam. Almost half see Mr Blair as Mr Bush's lapdog, with the figure even higher among the under-30s.
Almost two-thirds of people said the only reason the US has targeted President Saddam is because he threatens US control of the Middle East - only a quarter feel it is because the Iraqi leader is a threat to world peace
Blame for British casualties in a war with Iraq will be placed with Mr Blair himself, according to 21% of those polled...
It's not hypocrisy, Dennis....it's politics. The Democrats (Clinton Administration) gave him the bio samples to make bio-weapons. Now the Republicans are in power. So now we can go in and remove the mistakes of the liberals. Once again, Dennis links to an article that shows it takes Conservative power to repair the harm caused by liberals to the world.
How's the scouting adventure going BTW? I just completed my child protection course. It was good training, but was about an hour too long.
Hey CSC. I missed this post, I just found it now when I did a search on "Scout" to see the post where someone (Dan Zachary I think) had given me a link to some Scouting info.
It's going pretty good. I'm looking for a pack meeting idea for the next pack meeting. It's the only thing I don't like about doing it. I'm not very creative. :-)
Liberals bitched and whined about "regime change" and how it should "begin at home". Well, look now boys, you got what you asked for and are still complaining about it. Conservatives will now control the White House, the Senate, and the House. I must say I totally agree with you guys, "regime change" was a good idea!
My wife has all the great ideas, she is the cubmaster for our pack. I spend most of my time with the older boys in Boy Scouts, I'm just the treasurer for the Cub Scouts. Right now I have most of the older boys busy with their atomic energy badge work. I found lots of 1950's cold war era geiger counters for dirt cheap on ebay. I am going to have them find sources of radiation in everyday places. I have a few radioactive sources for them to scope out.
Did anyone watch that hilarious episode of Everbody Loves Raymond last night?
Where Robert's new girlfriend turned out to be Frog Woman Who Eats Flies?
I laughed so hard I puked.
I was lying in bed, guffawing helplessly, when I upchucked my orange juice from ten minutes earlier.
I haven't seen anything so funny since that old epsiode of Martin where Martin's head swole up and he was walking around, totally deadpan, with this ridiculous, big, bumpy noggin.
"At the conclusion of the process, the foundations of American freedom have been redacted, edited, clipped and round-filed."
Thanks for the article Dennis. I'm sure this is just the start until more people are heard. Unfortunately, the people won't be heard because the government will arrest them as terrorists before they can say Osama...
That'll cost the taxpayer much more to run than the existing format, which would be nicely capable of handling terrorist threats if administered properly and given the right focus.
Tied in with the USA Patriot Act and pronouncements from a secret judicial panel that increased spying on (ordinary) Americans is permissible, this Big Brother behemoth does dangerously more damage than Osama could ever hope to inflict.
Imagine how apoplectic the Right -- paranoid in the extreme over the supposed implications of Waco and Ruby Ridge -- would have gotten if it had been Bill Clinton who engineered this strongarm superagency!
Republicans, who always wax poetic about "freedom", aren't saying boo about this tyrannical threat. Why? Because the only freedom they really care about is their unfettered ability to profitably exploit labor -- and this dreadful measure, with its anti-union facets and overall repressiveness, greatly facilitates that obscene, illicit "liberty".
Oh, and let's not forget those kow-towing favors to business tacked on to the Homeland Security bill, which shield companies from liability and allow them to still get military contracts even if they set up tax dodges overseas.
Typical Republican cronyism and people-shafting.
Meanwhile, Bush stubbornly defies common sense and world opinion to pursue the implementation of American empire across the globe, exponentially triggering more anti-US rage and creating a virtually infinite supply of future terrorists.
And here's the big question?
How do the Republicans intend to pay for this Endless War while cutting taxes even further for the uppercrust dodgers whose current abandonment of patriotic tax responsibility is the prime reason for the existing, worsening budget defecit?
By seizing the rest of humanity's wealth in imperial rip-off to try to make up the difference?
Or by staggeringly socking it to the typical American, by essentially eliminating all vital services upon which millions of us depend, forcing us to pay out of pocket for their "privatized", boss-enriching alternatives?
That'll cost the taxpayer much more to run than the existing format, which would be nicely capable of handling terrorist threats if administered properly and given the right focus. Â Â
WASHINGTON — A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday.
The database is not yet ready and Aldridge said it will not be available for several years. Fake consumer data will be used in development of the database, he said.
When it's ready, Aldridge said individual privacy rights will be protected. But he could not explain how the data would be accessed. In some cases, specific warrants would give law enforcement agencies access, he said. But in other cases the database might flag suspicious activity absent a specific request or warrant, and that suspicious activity could well be relayed to law enforcement or intelligence agencies.
My favorite author turned 80 today.
God bless you Mr. Vonnegut.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,69883,00.html
"One of the great American tragedies is to have participated in a just war. It's been possible for politicians and movie-makers to encourage us we're always good guys. The Second World War absolutely had to be fought. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. But we never talk about the people we kill. This is never spoken of."
I can honestly say I have never seen so many people at the polls. 79% sounds very believeable to me.
I'm back boys and girls.
Hey Torp, where the hell ya been?
Pretty quiet around here since the election.
THX. I had some problems with a certain individual on the old PP site. That person is now reporting to their probation officer 2x a month.
I never would have thought the GOP would have gained so many seats in either the House or Senate. Mainstream America moved past the center to the right. The old liberal agenda and ideas of the Democrats no longer work but they never saw it coming. Now their next leader in the House will be an ultra left-winger? Good Luck.
My county had a 72% turnout. A wonderful election.
THX. I had some problems with a certain individual on the old PP site. That person is now reporting to their probation officer 2x a month.
You're kiddin' right? I remember things being nasty at the old PP but not THAT nasty.
I never would have thought the GOP would have gained so many seats in either the House or Senate.
I don't think anyone expected it.
Mainstream America moved past the center to the right. The old liberal agenda and ideas of the Democrats no longer work but they never saw it coming. Now their next leader in the House will be an ultra left-winger? Good Luck.
I agree however, the Republicans need to keep from going to far right, otherwise the pendulum will swing the other way again.
My county had a 72% turnout. A wonderful election.
No doubt! The states voters rallied and had their voices heard. It's wonderful. :-)
THX, I wish I was kidding. The short of it is that someone gained personal information about me. They did not stop when warned. A bait trail was set up and the person took it.
BTW, some very kind people I know have set up other trails for people to follow if they feel so inclined.
That's why I was gone.
I didn't get to vote until after 9:00 when polls closed a hour earlier. Now I see why. Thanks for the link
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Cross_PLD.asp?M=LG&LD=39
BTW, some very kind people I know have set up other trails for people to follow if they feel so inclined.
Torp, I sent you an "e-gram" look on the left side of the screen for the flashing "New Message".
Hope everything is ok? I didn't know anything got that out of hand.
What has this man done to himself now???? This is an actual photo of him during his court appearance for missing concerts he was signed to appear in.
Oh My God.
What a freak.
as was said in another thread here when someone posted that same picture, what the hell is that on
hisits face?Uh, I think that is his face.
I guess that's what too much cosmetic surgery does to you.
Gun Company Must Pay Teacher's Widow
PALM BEACH COUNTY, Fla. -- A jury has awarded the widow of teacher Barry Grunow $1.2 million from a gun distributor. Pam Grunow's lawsuit accused Valor Corp of distributing a gun that was "unsafe, defective and lacked features that would have prevented a minor from using it."
The case stems from the murder of teacher Barry Grunow by one of his students. Nathaniel Brazill shot Grunow to death two years ago in a West Palm Beach classroom.
Pam Grunow's lawyer asked for $76 million. But the jury found gun distributor Valor Corporation 5 percent liable for Grunow's death. The owner of the gun and the school board held the most of the liability, the jury found.
The jury didn't find any liability for Nathanial Brazill, who pulled the trigger. Brazill stole the unloaded gun and bullets
from a cookie tin stashed away in a dresser drawer of family friend Elmore McCray.
The jury said Grunow's family should get $24 million from the three parties. The school board was told to pay her $10.8 million, and the family friend was told to pay $12 million.
This is the first lawsuit in the country in which a gun company has in any way been held responsible in a murder.
Holy Crap! What da Fuck? Why weren't the parents of the killer kid sued for giving birth to the murder weapon?
I guess it's just another successful story out of Florida.
Amazing!
Sickening is more like it.
What the f**k were those jurors thinking? What ever happened to personal responsibility?
"I wouldn't have killed him if I hadn't stolen the gun. No one prevented me from stealing the gun. No one prevented me from bringing it to school. No one prevented me from shooting my teacher. Therefore it's no my fault, it's all their fault".
It's obvious, he's a victim. Poor kid.
::slams head on desk::
you slam your head on your desk at home too, huh, jt?
How do you get those forehead stains off of the desk, THX? :)
How's the scouting adventure going BTW? I just completed my child protection course. It was good training, but was about an hour too long.
Meanwhile...
A poll conducted in England (by a U.S. Republican strategist) has found that 1 in 3 Britons consider George Bush a greater threat to peace than Saddam Hussein.
And then there's this news item:
US Bishops Overwhelmingly Oppose Bush Over War with Iraq
WASHINGTON -- Saying there is little evidence of an imminent threat to the United States, the nation's Catholic bishops overwhelming approved a resolution Wednesday opposing President Bush's threatened war against Iraq.
By a 228-14 vote, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops said the administration lacked "clear and adequate evidence" that military action against Saddam Hussein would be morally justified.
"We fear that to resort to war, under present circumstances and in light of current public information, would not meet the strict conditions in Catholic teaching for overriding the strong presumption against the use of military force," the prelates said...
--S.F. Chronicle
Finally, in case you weren't paying attention, the series of coordinated Oct. 26 anti-war rallies across America and the world were the largest since Vietnam. During that war, it wasn't until 1967 that protests of that magnitude began to appear.
All of this, and the Iraq war hasn't even begun yet.
There's a mighty big fan and a huge pile of shit that the Bush administration's bellicose obsession are about to bring into
unprecedentedly messy merger.
With all that the consequences will mean -- for everything from our prestige to our security -- each of us needs to ask a simple question:
"Can I support attacking Iraq, in good conscience?"
They protest a war that HASN'T happened in Iraq, yet they have no problem maintaining a population of sex offenders as priests. Hmmmm. Their credibility has gone out the window.
you slam your head on your desk at home too, huh, jt?
Yeah, and it's more dangerous. I'm always hitting picture frames, the cable modem, the telephone.
Those things hurt!
btw: I sent you an e-mail at visi.
Hey, the one family sued the gun makers. Maybe you can sue your desk maker? Do they have any safety features to help prevent you from hitting your head on the desk?
Do they have any safety features to help prevent you from hitting your head on the desk?
LOL TMK!
The jury didn't find any liability for Nathanial Brazill, who pulled the trigger. Brazill stole the unloaded gun and bullets from a cookie tin stashed away in a dresser drawer of family friend Elmore McCray.
If the shooter isn't responsible how can anyone be responsible? Is the manufacturer responsible simply because it may have some money?
If the shooter isn't responsible how can anyone be responsible? Is the manufacturer responsible simply because it may have some money?
actually guys, it was the distributor who was found to be responsible, but that's just a technicality. i thought everyone knew that whoever had the most money is the responsible party. always.
"House Republicans killed bankruptcy for this year," Daschle said. "It's as simple as that."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70499,00.html
No democrats killed the bill by linking abortion politics to the bill.
The Republican's had no other choice.
The Democrats were singling out anti-abortionists. Although I don't believe groups should be able to use bankruptcy to get out of their debts, the Democrats cannot use the law to single out groups they don't agree with.
I love our news.
They have a hot dog taste test on right now on KSTP 5 News.
LOL!
Only in Minnesota would that be considered "News".
1 in 3 SAY BUSH IS BIGGEST THREAT
By Patrick Wintour and Ewen MacAskill
President George Bush is seen by a third of Britons as a bigger threat to world safety than Saddam Hussein, according to a new poll conducted by a senior US Republican and due to be broadcast today...
The weighted poll of 3,200 people throughout the country was conducted for Channel 4 by Frank Luntz, a senior Republican strategist, based on the YouGov sample.
Similar polling has been undertaken by Downing Street as it contemplates how to sell a war on Iraq.
The Channel 4 poll found that a third of the British public have no trust at all in Mr Bush, and many actually fear him. In a straight choice between Mr Bush and President Saddam as to who poses the greater threat to world peace, 32% said Mr Bush and 49% said President Saddam. Almost half see Mr Blair as Mr Bush's lapdog, with the figure even higher among the under-30s.
Almost two-thirds of people said the only reason the US has targeted President Saddam is because he threatens US control of the Middle East - only a quarter feel it is because the Iraqi leader is a threat to world peace
Blame for British casualties in a war with Iraq will be placed with Mr Blair himself, according to 21% of those polled...
--Guardian/UK, Nov. 14, 2002
http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,815693,00.html
Iraq war condemned by Bush's own church...
Sounds like Dennis prefers a leader who gases his own people. Where's the poll from the people of northern Iraq? Oh that's right, THEY'RE DEAD!
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/23/213349.shtml
The U.S. has a sordid record of supporting despots when expedient.
For instance, we ourselves helped Saddam to do much of the worst that we now condemn him for.
Back when he was our useful ally.
If the charges made in the article to which this post is linked are
true, we're taking the pot calling the kettle black to new heights
of hypocrisy.
It's not hypocrisy, Dennis....it's politics. The Democrats (Clinton Administration) gave him the bio samples to make bio-weapons. Now the Republicans are in power. So now we can go in and remove the mistakes of the liberals. Once again, Dennis links to an article that shows it takes Conservative power to repair the harm caused by liberals to the world.
How's the scouting adventure going BTW? I just completed my child protection course. It was good training, but was about an hour too long.
Hey CSC. I missed this post, I just found it now when I did a search on "Scout" to see the post where someone (Dan Zachary I think) had given me a link to some Scouting info.
It's going pretty good. I'm looking for a pack meeting idea for the next pack meeting. It's the only thing I don't like about doing it. I'm not very creative. :-)
Liberals bitched and whined about "regime change" and how it should "begin at home". Well, look now boys, you got what you asked for and are still complaining about it. Conservatives will now control the White House, the Senate, and the House. I must say I totally agree with you guys, "regime change" was a good idea!
THX:
My wife has all the great ideas, she is the cubmaster for our pack. I spend most of my time with the older boys in Boy Scouts, I'm just the treasurer for the Cub Scouts. Right now I have most of the older boys busy with their atomic energy badge work. I found lots of 1950's cold war era geiger counters for dirt cheap on ebay. I am going to have them find sources of radiation in everyday places. I have a few radioactive sources for them to scope out.
Geiger counters? That is so cool!
THX, how about "how to repair your wooden desk from hitting your head on it too much"?
That's a great one! Think a bunch of six year olds could get it back together?
:-)
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14576
OSAMA'S UNDER YOUR BED!
Did anyone watch that hilarious episode of Everbody Loves Raymond
last night?
Where Robert's new girlfriend turned out to be Frog Woman Who Eats
Flies?
I laughed so hard I puked.
I was lying in bed, guffawing helplessly, when I upchucked my orange juice from ten minutes earlier.
I haven't seen anything so funny since that old epsiode of Martin
where Martin's head swole up and he was walking around, totally deadpan, with this ridiculous, big, bumpy noggin.
God, life is good!
Is this a great country, or what?!
OSAMA'S UNDER YOUR BED!
"At the conclusion of the process, the foundations of American freedom have been redacted, edited, clipped and round-filed."
Thanks for the article Dennis. I'm sure this is just the start until more people are heard. Unfortunately, the people won't be heard because the government will arrest them as terrorists before they can say Osama...
Homeland Security.
An unprecedentedly vast, new bureaucracy.
That'll cost the taxpayer much more to run than the
existing format, which would be nicely capable of handling
terrorist threats if administered properly and given the right focus.
Tied in with the USA Patriot Act and pronouncements from a
secret judicial panel that increased spying on (ordinary)
Americans is permissible, this Big Brother behemoth does
dangerously more damage than Osama could ever hope to inflict.
Imagine how apoplectic the Right -- paranoid in the extreme
over the supposed implications of Waco and Ruby Ridge -- would
have gotten if it had been Bill Clinton who engineered this
strongarm superagency!
Republicans, who always wax poetic about "freedom", aren't
saying boo about this tyrannical threat. Why? Because the
only freedom they really care about is their unfettered ability
to profitably exploit labor -- and this dreadful measure, with its anti-union facets and overall repressiveness, greatly facilitates that obscene, illicit "liberty".
Oh, and let's not forget those kow-towing favors to business
tacked on to the Homeland Security bill, which shield companies
from liability and allow them to still get military
contracts even if they set up tax dodges overseas.
Typical Republican cronyism and people-shafting.
Meanwhile, Bush stubbornly defies common sense and world
opinion to pursue the implementation of American empire across
the globe, exponentially triggering more anti-US rage and
creating a virtually infinite supply of future terrorists.
And here's the big question?
How do the Republicans intend to pay for this Endless War
while cutting taxes even further for the uppercrust dodgers
whose current abandonment of patriotic tax responsibility is
the prime reason for the existing, worsening budget defecit?
By seizing the rest of humanity's wealth in imperial rip-off to try to make up the difference?
Or by staggeringly socking it to the typical American, by
essentially eliminating all vital services upon which millions
of us depend, forcing us to pay out of pocket for their
"privatized", boss-enriching alternatives?
What a sham, scam and supremely sinful scandal!
Hi Dennis,
Yea, it worked so well before.
allow them to still get military contracts even if they set up tax dodges overseas.
Is this true?
Is this true?
Yep, it's true.
It's also perfectly legal.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70992,00.html
WASHINGTON — A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday.
The database is not yet ready and Aldridge said it will not be available for several years. Fake consumer data will be used in development of the database, he said.
When it's ready, Aldridge said individual privacy rights will be protected. But he could not explain how the data would be accessed. In some cases, specific warrants would give law enforcement agencies access, he said. But in other cases the database might flag suspicious activity absent a specific request or warrant, and that suspicious activity could well be relayed to law enforcement or intelligence agencies.
Wait until Komrade Ashcroft gets hold of this.
No one should panic or worry, I doubt if they will be monitoring porn purchases!