Jesus is in favor of war, or supports war in any way.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
ok, inevitable-God has a plan and it includes wars. Our futures are already 'mapped' out but we are given our own minds to make dicissions that can change our future -at the same time 'the end' will happen no matter what-we cant change that. That is a hard concept for most to grasp at. I can not see Jesus wanting war or supporting war, but during this time I believe Jesus will protect his flock. Some will die, maybe even me, but it all has purpose. I didn't believe I would see 2001. My mom was visited by an angel in 1980 about the 'end of a time frame in biblical proportions'-and before anyone starts in on me about it-bare in mind- if you don't belive just anyone can be visited by an angel you better not be preaching to anyone about faith and believing in God cause you don't believe your self then! What is happening to not only Iraq and the US, but Israel & Palestine -these are huge battles -how can you honestly think these are NOT spiritual. These are gonna happen weather you want it to or not-weather I want it to or not-I don't want it to happen -I love my life!-I love my family! - I love my friends and sunshine and kissing my kids goodnight and wine and treasure hunting and going out for dinners with my husband and shopping and drawing pictures with my kids and sewing and walking on the bluffs and watching movies and the stars and sunsets at the lake and having dinner parties and watching football and drinking coffee and raking leaves and rain and smelling pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving and DisneyWorld and taking showers and talking to friends on-line and singing in the truck on the way to pick my husband up from work and reading and dancing and Christmas and candy and and and and I don't want war-who really does? people who hate -who hate freedom-who hate that we are not under their control-why do you think they hate us? My 6 year old asked me last week why Saddam & Osama hates her-what did she do that made him feel that way-what makes people feel so much negativity that they they don't even give you a choice between living under their rules or death--but then again -is that the choice we are given? What do you think Osama was telling you when he conspired and blew up the trade center? you think he won't come after you? me? He's coming back weather we like it or not-now what are we gonna do to stop him? I am guessing you don't want to stop him and let him kill you?
me2- Do you honestly believe that God is controlling earth, and human will? I believe that God gave us free will, and this is, in part the reason for war. For if we did not have the choice of war, peace and love would have no value. I cannot say that the God that I have learned about and love would ever "plan" war. It is something that happens do to freewill of humans, and perhaps it will always be a part of human life. However, I believe this is waht Jesus is saying to the disciples, there is going to be war, know that this is NOT the end of the world, and stay faithful to what I have taught you. So when war may happen, I believe that as a Christian it is not my role to support the war, but to share why peace is so important. Even though war may be inevitable, I am not going to just sit here and watch, I may not stop the war, but hopefully I will be able to reach maybe just one person and that person will forever have love in their heart, and that one person will be more peaceful.
at the same time 'the end' will happen no matter what-we cant change that. That is a hard concept for most to grasp at.
I agree totally, however sometimes I struggle with the term "the end", for we as Christians know that when our life on earth is over it is only the beginning of eternal life in Heaven. My problem is you say that most people struggle with this concept, and I find it hard to believe that you have it tackled. If you were completely fine with the idea of death, you would not have fear, for you would know that as a faithful follower of Christ you have eternal life. You would still enjoy the things you do in life, but you would realise that all of the joys on earth are nothing compared to the joys of heaven. Once we get past our fears, we are better prepared to make a difference in the world.
"And I think that we in our family, we don't need guns, to destroy or to bring peace-just get together, love one another, bring that peace, that joy, that strength of presence of each other in the home. And we will be able to overcome all that is evil in the world" - Mother Teresa, Nobel Peace Laureate, 1979
God don't wear no Calvin Klein's, uh-huh God don't wear no Calvin Klein's, uh-huh God don't wear no Calvin Klein's Just raggedy Rustlers all the time God don't wear no Calvin Klein's, uh-huh
Angels, they don't fly or fall, uh-huh Angels, they don't fly or fall, uh-huh Angels, they don't fly or fall But they sure play some mean baseball! Angels, they don't fly or fall, uh-huh
Moses, he don't own no gun, uh-huh Moses, he don't own no gun, uh-huh Moses, he don't own no gun Just plays Ring Toss when he wants some fun Moses, he don't own no gun, uh-huh
Mary M. had a secret tryst, uh-huh Mary M. had a secret tryst, uh-huh Mary M. had a secret tryst Then gave up men to become a feminist Mary M. had a secret tryst, uh-uh
Judas gave his coins away, uh-huh Judas gave his coins away, uh-huh Judas gave his coins away Instead of having Hell to pay Judas gave his coins away, uh-huh
See those homeless 'neath that bridge, uh-huh See those homeless 'neath that bridge, uh-huh See those homeless 'neath that bridge That's the worst kind of sacrilege Help those homeless 'neath that bridge, uh-huh
Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq, uh-huh Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq, uh-huh Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq He preaches peace and walks the walk Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq, uh-huh
Me2- I agree with Tim, and think he put it very well. Death is not final and "The End" is just a new beginning. This "spiritual war" is within all of us- a catalyst- to change for the better or fall for the worst, and is fought on a personal level everyday by ordinary people. It may be manifest in this world as war, but winning the physical war doesn't mean winning the spiritual war. The spiritual war is won when people choose not to perpetuate hate (I was taught that two wrongs don't make it right), choose to make the effort to understand and overcome hate, and choose to live in peace.
people who hate -who hate freedom-who hate that we are not under their control-why do you think they hate us?
Why does anyone hate anyone? Fear, jealousy and insecurity are just a few reasons, there are many more. It happens everyday, in every country, The mid east is not the only place it happens.
My 6 year old asked me last week why Saddam & Osama hates her-what did she do that made him feel that way-
I hope you explained to her that they doesn't hate "her" and that "she" didn't do anything. That they are disturbed(bad) men with fanatic(crazy) followers and that they do not represent the majority of Muslims/Arabs. Hatred is a hard thing to explain to children, and unfortunately its something we all have to deal with in life.
a choice between living under their rules or death--but then again -is that the choice we are given?
I don't believe those are the only choices we were given, even the people in their countrys have more choices than that. We can defend ourselves, we can try to understand "why", we can educate people, we can organize people to stand up for themselves, or we can leave. Those are just a few choices we have.
What do you think Osama was telling you when he conspired and blew up the trade center? you think he won't come after you? me? He's coming back weather we like it or not-now what are we gonna do to stop him?
I think its more about power and control, trying to make us fear him. No I don't think he's coming back, after me or you, but if he does I am not afraid of him nor of death. But tell me this, how is going to war with Saadamgoing to stop Osamafrom committing more acts of terror?
All I can say is that it's pretty pathetic when you can realistically hold an entire country hostage with just a few strategically placed sharp shooters and a couple of anthrax scares. We have become unbelievably unaware of the real world around us. Because of that, it is extremely easy to use our own paranoid vulnerability against us. How the hell could the entire mighty United States function if it was hit as often as Israel? It couldn't. We could not 'go on with our normal lives' as it was proposed after 9/11 by Bush. Hopefully we can just move on some day but unfortunately it's going to take a bit more tolerance of the BS before that happens. As it is now, I don't know how the people of Jerusalem carry on with any kind of daily life. That's all.
...Easy for both our "government" and the "terrorists"...
Very true. Although I think that our government has been using it against it's own people for way longer than the terrorists. Unfortunately for them, they will be held more accountable now that more people are watching their every step. Unfortunately, a lot of the country still doesn't give a shit about anything other than if Ross and Rachael will ever get married. And that's where this 'big strong' country of ours shows it's weak underbelly. It's really sad that unless there are more actual attacks on U.S. soil, the public as a whole won't care about much more than what's on E.T.
very good points cm and artemis, I agree that the government and politions use the publics fear to their advantage. in my opinion, this is the one major reason why the republicans swept these past elections, people that dont really spend the time to resaerch the canidates know that republicans on the whole will spend more money than democrats on the military, they are scared so they voted republican.
I am not saying this is the only reason, but I do think it swayed the people in the middle, and the people who have no particular party affiliation, and people who believe in single issue politics...
Lampsos saw bin Laden at Saddam's palace in the 1980s, she said, and claimed Saddam's son Oday told her his father met with bin Laden again in the mid-1990s and gave him money.........
Even when relaxing, Saddam's brutal side could come out, she said. According to Lampsos, Saddam loved watching The Godfather, listening to "Strangers in the Night"by Frank Sinatra, or seeing videos of his enemies being tortured. He sometimes donned a cowboy hat, sipped whiskey on the rocks and puffed on a cigar as he watched the torture
Scores of people, including possible prisoners of conscience and armed forces officers suspected of planning to overthrow the government, were executed. Scores of suspected anti-government opponents, including people suspected of having contacts with opposition groups in exile, were arrested. The fate and whereabouts of most of those arrested, including those detained in previous years, remained unknown. Several people were given lengthy prison terms after grossly unfair trials before special courts. Torture and ill-treatment of political prisoners and detainees were systematic. The two Kurdish political parties controlling Iraqi Kurdistan detained prisoners of conscience, and armed political groups were reportedly responsible for abductions and killings.
In the body of the report, AI said Iraqi authorities also are said to use such methods as forcing broken bottles and other objects into the anus of victims, extinguishing cigarettes on various parts of the body, extracting fingernails and toenails and piercing the hands with an electric drill. Victims also have been subjected to mock executions and rape, AI said...............
Relatives who do not report deserters may lose their ration cards for purchasing government-controlled food supplies, be evicted from their residences, or face the arrest of other family members. The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq reported in October and December 1999 that authorities denied food ration cards to families that failed to send their young sons to the "Saddam's Cubs" compulsory weapons training camps.
Hitler ignored the surrender agreements Germany signed after World War I. He flaunted the Versailles Peace Treaty and the League of Nations, which was formed to maintain world peace. He occupied the Rhineland and invaded Austria. No one tried to stop him. Nations turned the other way rather than face war.
The Iraqi regime has consistently demonstrated its callous disregard for the dictates of international law and for the sanctity of human life. Saddam has employed weapons of mass destruction against his neighbors and his own people. After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the United Nations Security Council passed 16 resolutions in an effort to curtail Saddam's weapons programs and to bring Iraq back into the community of nations. Sixteen times he defied those resolutions.
For the first time ever, scientists have been able to prove the use of chemical weapons through the analysis of environmental residues taken years after such an attack occurred. In a development that could have far-reaching consequences for the enforcement of the chemical weapons treaty, soil samples taken from bomb craters near a Kurdish village in northern Iraq by a team of forensic scientists have been found to contain trace evidence of nerve gas, GB, also known as Sarin, as well as mustard gas.
Think of the power those weapons inspectors will have. If Sadam's goons so much as sneeze out of turn, it could easily be the start of WWIII. I guess the big compromise now is what the UN and US can agree on that constitutes noncompliance. I'm sure Bush will say that if we find an unaccounted firecracker, it's bye bye time. Where the HR thinking UN will wait until they stumble across a H bomb. It may be awhile until a common resolution is set in place, so don't start buying those fatigues just yet.
In case you haven't noticed, we are in a world wide war. The Islamic radicals are determined to achieve world domination under Islamic law. They do not care who they kill in the process. Women, children, non-combatants, their own people, are all targets of theirs. It does not matter to them as long as they control the world.
My dear Muslim brother and Sisters today Humanitystands at the crossroad, with but two options available for the inhabitants of this earth.Either to remain in this grieving and sad state of affairs that we find ourselves in today under the tentacles of Capitalism or to accept Islam as an ideological alternative to Capitalist exploitation and hegemony and as the only and true last hope for mankind.
Today we live in a world, where the lethal cocktail of freedoms, individualism and benefit leaves its scars on society be it through the kidnapping, rape and murder of preteen school girls, the rape of a helpless 90 year old women lying on makeshift bed in a hospital corridor awaiting treatment, the senseless stabbing of a boy simply because he speaks differently or the murder of a father by his two 13 & 14 year old sons who took a bat to his head because he disallowed them to play computer games late at night.
Today we live in a world, where there is little value given to human life in pursuit of economic and political gains be it the bombing of innocent civilians or the crippling of nations through globalisation.
Indeed today there is much hardship and oppression in the world that reflects the absence of justice, just men, and just systems. Much anguish and suffering that reflects the flawed politics, flawed governments, flawed values and flawed principles that shape the political landscapes of the earthand regulate the affairs of man.
Dan Handelman is haunted by two images of Iraq that most Americans never see on television.
One is a frail two-year-old slowly dying of dehydration in a Basra hospital while his mother sits next to him, helpless to stop the ravages of diarrhea and infection. He is, according the World Health Agency, one of the 5,000 Iraqi children who die of water-borne diseases and malnutrition each month.
The other is a group of children begging in the streets. "There were no beggars in Baghdad before the Gulf War, and now many of them have to beg rather than be in school," he says. Indeed, Iraq used to have the highest literacy rate in the Arab world--95%--but according to UNICEF, 30% of its children no longer attend school.
Handleman, a member of Friends of Voices in the Wilderness, is from Portland, Oregon, and along with a handful of other Americans, has traveled to Iraq to witness first hand the ravages of war and sanctions-- and to record what is being done in our name.
The young boy in Basra is dying because the U.S. systematically targeted water purification plants and electrical generators in the 1991 Gulf War. We certainly didn't bomb those targets by accident. According to Col. John Warden, the deputy director of strategy, doctrine, and plans for the U.S. Air Force, the purpose of the attacks was "to accelerate the effects of [economic] sanctions" and increase "long-term leverage."
The bombing knocked out almost 97% of the country's electrical capacity, a disaster in a highly mechanized and electricity dependent society like Iraq. In the first eight months following the war, 47,000 children died of diseases like cholera, typhoid, and gastroenteritis. More than a half million have followed them in the past decade, and infant mortality has tripled.
Much of the responsibility for this rests on the shoulders of the Clinton administration, which knew what was happening to Iraq's children. In 1996, Leslie Stahl of CBS asked Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but price, we think the price is worth it."
Such bombing is in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, which explicitly states that "It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove, or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies, and irrigation works."
There is a cruelty in all this that most Americans would recoil from. "The sanctions let water pumps in," says Handleman (which are essential for combating water-borne diseases), "but not the ball bearings that they need to function." He adds the sanctions let in syringes, "but not needles. You can get IV (intravenous) bags for combating dehydration, but not the needles that allow you to put the fluids into a child."
The so-called "Food for Oil" program has been a flat-out failure, and not, according to the UN, because of the Hussein government. "The magnitude of the humanitarian needs is such," states a 1999 UN report, "that they cannot be met within the parameters set forth in Resolution 986,"(the Security Council resolution that set up Food for Oil).
Malnutrition is spreading, in large part according to the UN, because of the "massive deterioration of the basic infrastructure, particularly in the water supply and disposal system." Besides the deliberate destruction of the civilian infrastructure, the backwash of war also continues to take a steady toll on Iraqi civilians. Southern Iraq was saturated with almost a million rounds of Depleted Uranium Ammunition, which has raised radioactive levels 150 to 200 times over background levels.
Basra Hospital Director Akram Abed Hassan says, "Our cancer incidence has increased 10 times during the past few years. Before, we had very few patients under 30, now we're operating on 10-year-old girls with breast cancer." Leukemia and kidney failure rates have also risen sharply.
The Bush administration says we are after Saddam Hussein, but for the past 10 years, as Handelman points out, the victims have been "the 23 million people of Iraq." A new war, he argues, will immeasurably worsen an already terrible situation.
Iraq lost several thousand civilians in Gulf War I, and the Pentagon Projects Gulf War II will kill another 10,000, not counting those who will die from the consequences of bombing. Of course, in a sense, we are already at war with Iraq. The U.S. and Britain have dropped more bombs on Iraq since 1999 than were dropped on Serbia in the Kosovo War, and have sharply stepped up the air campaign over the past two weeks.
That bombing has taken a steady toll on civilians, as it has in Afghanistan. For all the hype about "smart bombs" and "surgical strikes," more than 3,000 Afghan civilians have died from U.S, bombs, and it is scary to contemplate what an aerial assault on Baghdad, a city of five million, will do.
All of this will be carried out in our name unless Americans do something to stop it. "A time has come when silence is betrayal," Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. said about Vietnam, another war that targeted civilians, "that time is now."
The foregoing post, by a fellow Finnish-American progressive, reveals some of the grisly realities -- the criminal horrors -- our bipartisan policy of hostility toward Iraq has entailed for more than a decade.
By rights, it's Iraq that could make a compelling case for attacking America, in righteous revenge.
Not the U.S. overthrowing its government, by invasive aggression, to put into power a Karzai-style puppet who'll give Bush/Cheney the same oil control they got through pipeline concessions in Afghanistan.
By the way, there's a panhandler in Duluth who's using a related political approach to get some spare change.
My wife tells me she was approached by a fellow who asked her, "Would you want to see your boy killed in a war for oil?"
She emphatically replied, "No!"
He then asked if she'd be kind enough to help a veteran down on his luck.
A shockingly high number of our country's homeless are veterans, many from the Vietnam era.
So...how's about creating a whole new slew of returning veterans, to try to deal with all their trauma in an economy ruined by guns-before-butter priorities?
No thanks.
Count me as a conscientious objector on this entire, cruel folly.
Finally, have you noticed how all Muslims are becoming scapegoats for an increasingly rightwing (in many ways crypto-fascistic) U.S. power structure, and its conservative allies in the general populace?
Shades of Nazi Germany's castigation/persecution of Jews to divert attention from fascism's true, vicious, monopoly-serving intent.
My problem is you say that most people struggle with this concept, and I find it hard to believe that you have it tackled. If you were completely fine with the idea of death, you would not have fear, for you would know that as a faithful follower of Christ you have eternal life. You would still enjoy the things you do in life, but you would realise that all of the joys on earth are nothing compared to the joys of heaven.
I don't think I have said at any time that I had a problem with death-I do love life and I do love what will happen to me after I die, I look forward to it-BUT-I don't like that I may not see some friends or family when it happens-I don't recall if it's Biblical or not but I was told years ago that we will not remember the 'non-believers' after going to Heaven. That they would look up from hell and see us but we would never see them. If anyone know anything on this I am interested to hear it. Tim, I do however agree with most of this particular post of yours. That was your best post yet :) - I do have trouble however grasping that a human can have so much hatred and want that much control. We will not be able to change his mind even if we didn't go into Iraq-he wants full control-I understand showing people peace-in the same breath, Saddam or Bin Laden will be sending bombs to Britian or the US and we will have to defend ourselves- ooor? will you not defend yourself? just wondering. ooor, do you think Bin Laden or Saddam will back down and not torture people or hurt people in the USA? If George W Bush says "hey, lets just pull our troops out and drop everything-let him do what he wants to do in his country and to ours'... what do you think will happen? Is that what you want George to do? -just wondering
either way someone dies :(
Bin Laden doesn't want peace- This isn't just about the US-cause even if Bin Laden trusted the USA he still wants control-not just of his country but the world.
Ah-and I agree with a lot of what Timmers says too -I just have a slight different view on defense. Maybe it's selfish-??-I worry too much about what will happen to some of the people I love that have not said 'Jesus, I give my life to you' --I am still working on them and don't want to fall short of missing anyone before Bin Laden 'takes us out' I guess... if we don't defend ourselves.
Israel looks on their own (who is siding with Israel?) USA wants Israel to give land to Palestine Russia and China say to USA-don't mess with Iraq - cause Russia/China & Iraq are hooking up?
I understand the British anti-war movement intends to take Blair to court, on the basis of international law, to try to prevent him from launching Britain into aggressive war against Iraq.
o On March 3, 1995, the House of Representatives' Terrorism Task Force issued a warning that Mideast terrorists were planning attacks on the "heart of the U.S.," identifying twelve cities as potential targets, including Oklahoma City. It reported that the terrorists had recruited two "lily whites" -- individuals with no criminal history or obvious connections to the perpetrating organization -- to carry out the bombing of an American federal building.
o Six months prior to the bombing, an Oklahoma City-based Palestinian immigrant who had previously served time for a felony fraud conviction, hired a handful of former Iraqi soldiers to do maintenance work on some of the $4 million in rental property he owned. American co-workers reported their horror as these soldiers "expressed prideful excitement" at initial reports that Islamic extremists had taken credit for the Murrah bombing and "exuberently pledged their allegiance to Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein." Witnesses have put McVeigh and his convicted co-conspirator, Terry Nichols, in the company of these soldiers on one or more occasions.
o Importantly, Ms. Davis has determined that one of these soldiers, Hussain Alhussaini, closely matches the composite picture of "John Doe 2" drawn on the basis of numerous eye-witnesses who claim to have seen such a heavy-set, dark-complexioned Middle Eastern man: in the Ryder truck used to destroy the Murrah Building minutes before the attack; putting diesel fuel -- which, together with fertilizer, powered the explosion -- into the vehicle that morning, (even though the truck's own engine used unleaded fuel); at the scene of the crime getting out of the truck seconds before it blew up; and/or fleeing the site in a brown Chevy pickup. Other witnesses had previously seen such a truck parked at the Palestinian's real estate offices before the attack.
Dan, I could easily substitute the word "Christ" for "Islam" and find a paper written by Christian TV dinks like Pat Robertson, or that fat-ass Jerry Falwell, using the exact same ideological doublespeak, to sway their masses.
Well then, Fold, please show us. I do not follow Robertson or Falwell, but I doubt that they are calling for any shaping of political landscapes or regulating the affairs of men.
The practical method of propagating Islam as the basis for foreign policy is the declaration of Jihad. This was the method of the Messenger (p.b.u.h) as soon as the Islamic State established its roots in Medina. It must be stressed that the Muslims do not - and did not start fighting the enemy without first presenting them with the opportunity to accept Islam and become Muslims, thus becoming part of the Islamic State. If this offer is turned down, they are asked to pay 'Jizya' (head tax), and to be part of the State. They would be treated as 'Dhimmis' 1.e the State would be responsible for their protection. They would be ruled by the Islamic Shari'a and their land would be considered as Foreign POLICY of the Islamic State Muslim land i.e. Dar Islam (Domain of Islam). Any hindrance of their wealth and property, as well as their blood, will be an act of transgression. If the enemy, on the other hand, refuses both options, namely Islam or Jizya, the Muslims are then allowed to declare war on them. All the scholars agree that Muslims are not allowed to fight the enemy unless they are called to Islam in the first instance
Al-Fajr Magazine
Please show us where Robertson or Falwell are saying it is alright for us to overthough anyone simply because they will not convert to Christianity.
I do not follow Robertson or Falwell, but I doubt that they are calling for any shaping of political landscapes or regulating the affairs of men.
Ignorance can be bliss--- but it is still so unbecoming: Here is a link--- since Don seems to base everything he believes on internet links--- straight from the horse's ass' mouth:
since Don seems to base everything he believes on internet links--- straight from the horse's ass' mouth:
Since there is no "Don" here, I assume you are talking to me.
As I said, I do not follow Robertson or the others, so pick away at them if you wish.
Big difference between trying to get people to elect you based on your beliefs rather than scaring them into giving into you. Muslims prefer strapping bombs around the young people and blowing up crowds if they do not convert.
I take it that you see as a bad thing that he would not put muslims in government. Well, who was it that crashed planes into buildings on 9/11? Are these the people you wish to have governing us? Not me.
How you got that I base my beliefs on internet links is beyond me. I did ask for some type of proof of his statement. If internet links were truthful, then you must have been arrested at today, which I doubt has ever happened. Click hereto see what I am talking about.
Fostering bigotry against a whole people/religion via crude generalizations and stereotypes, eh, Dan?
This from the man who believes that the Republicans are there for the use of big buisiness.
Muslims are from all racial backgrounds, Dennis, so trying to make me look like a racist is absurd. Look at what they preach to their own people in their own words Dennis, not some LiberalSlant.com piece. Link
What would Jesus say?
I thought that you were an athiest? I could have you mixed up with someone else though.
I think that Jesus would say that these people are an abomination and we should have nothing to do with them, but who knows for sure?
one of the problems is they won't leave us alone! I feel like that old phrase-'shue fly don't bother me' but they won't go away! they just keep buzzing around! ::SWAT:: 'squash you like a bug'....oooops, sorry Ares- don't hurt them there so cute! ggeeesh.
I am watching Ghandi with my 6 & 11 year old---watched 1/2 last night-the rest tonight. So far he says he is for peace. Britian set laws on India but Ghandi/India is not gonna abide the new laws...and he said he would allow Britian to protect India during war. BUT - I thought we are supposed to follow our government laws no matter how stupid or inappropriate they are- Maybe I will understand more when I watch the 2nd half.
Ghandi started protest campaigns and organized provocating demonstrations, but never used violence. His philosophy was to never fight back against the atrocities, but still never retreat. This, he said, would decrease the hate against him and his fellow believers, and increase the respect felt towards him. Gandhi's one aim was that everybody - hindues, muslims, sikhs, jews, christians, black and white - could live together in peace and harmony.
Never fight back with violence-that would be wonderful--BUT, Back then- British Soldiers were not gonna blow themselves up to kill as many Indian people as they could---Bin Laden will never have respect for Americans :(
Dan, do you feel Christianity is an a battle with Islam for the future of humanity, and that we're the "good guys"?
Not by the choice of the Christians or America which they perceive as being Christian. It can be proven by the words that the Islamic extremist preach and by their actions as well. 9/11 being the most infamous.
Previous riots in Kaduna, a largely Muslim city with a sizable Christian minority, have escalated into religious battles that killed hundreds since civilian government replaced military rule in 1999. link
At least 36 people have been killed and about 100 injured in several violent attacks this year against Christian and western targets.
In the attack on Wednesday, two gunmen entered the third-floor offices of the Institute for Peace and Justice (IPJ) and shot their victims in the head, before escaping. link
Some of history's bloodiest wars and destructive biases have been perpetrated by zealots from one Godly belief system or another designating followers of a different, competing spirituality..."infidels".
Jews vs. Muslims. Muslims vs. Hindus. Christianity, with a Bible in one hand and a sword in the other, out to "convert" the world. It's been sordid and ugly, and continues to be to this very day.
Nevertheless, our species has a spiritual craving that needs to be met.
I believe in ecumenism and tolerance, a celebration of diversity, and strict avoidance of the arrogant folly which sees one religion as the Only True Way and all others as irrelevant at best, and Satanic at worst.
That's also the best approach regarding politics and economy. There should be no forceful effort by those who happen to have the most strength at any given time (America and Bush, now) to impose a single "model" on humankind. Capitalism, socialism, and experimentative mixtures of both should all be peacefully striving to win adherents, based on performance, without efforts to scuttle the others' activities.
As an activist in one of the two great coalitions that resisted the Vietnam War, I personally worked with Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc., all in respectful harmony. Capitalist professionals and Communist organizers would strategize together, and convivially break bread afterward. We attempted to get Republican California Congressman Paul McCluskey to run for president, shifting to George McGovern as he became the more viable option.
In April of 1971, along with 250,000 people of all persuasions, backgrounds and races, I marched down Constitution Avenue, a Midwestern Finlander holding one end of a "Vive Puerto Rico Libre" banner that stretched entirely across that wide street.
As our varied contingents passed the front window of a second-floor dance studio, little Black girls in matching costumes and choreography pressed the peace sign against the glass, to our resounding cheers. At that instant we knew we had the cohesive unity to eventually prevail, and that Richard Nixon was a doomed man.
I won't engage in attacking others with whom I know I can find common ground, when there are individuals, institutions and polices in our own country that collectively inflict greater damage on the peoples of the world -- and the planet itself -- than anyone else could even remotely inflict on us, even if the vilest slanders against them were true...and that were their actual, mass intent.
If we broadly unite to remedy what's wrong and evil in our midst, we'll obviate the basis for escalating animosity toward America around the globe.
That's how we'll ultimately triumph over terrorism.
That's well and good Dennis, but most people don't agree with you on whom or what is the evil in our midst.
THIS, shows again, how far you once were off, from the truth. We did not know our ownself. We hated Black and loved white, for we did not KNOW either one, Black or white!
But, the white man had called us to come obey and follow him.
Now, it has taken us 400 years to learn that we were following the devil; and not following the God of Truth and Righteousness, although we claimed to be from the God of Truth and Righteousness!
WE, the Black People are righteous, by nature. The devil is wicked by nature. There is much that I am teaching you from our Lord, that is so good for you, that you are now beginning to recognize it.
BUT, to seek a way to satisfy our evil open enemy, the devil -- this puts you in the position to be made ashamed, disgraced and to be punished.
I EVEN ask you all day long and all night long to COME, FOLLOW ME! PUT YOURSELF IN HEAVEN AT ONCE! You are begging the devils to give you a place among them. You want to be honored by the enemy of God and man (Black Man).
THE Judgment is now come to the enemy of Righteous. TRUTH IS CONFIRMED! The arch-deceiver is made manifest to be none other than the white race. Truth also makes manifest the Black lovers of the devil!
JOIN ONTO YOUR OWN BLACK KIND, OR SUFFER DESTRUCTION WITH HELL FIRE...TRUTH IS CONFIRMED!
It is time to seriously consider if all of western civilization is at war with Islam.
Another stupid comment from the king of stupid. fold, you are one of a kind, thank GOD.
Jesus is in favor of war, or supports war in any way.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
ok, inevitable-God has a plan and it includes wars. Our futures are already 'mapped' out but we are given our own minds to make dicissions that can change our future -at the same time 'the end' will happen no matter what-we cant change that. That is a hard concept for most to grasp at. I can not see Jesus wanting war or supporting war, but during this time I believe Jesus will protect his flock. Some will die, maybe even me, but it all has purpose. I didn't believe I would see 2001. My mom was visited by an angel in 1980 about the 'end of a time frame in biblical proportions'-and before anyone starts in on me about it-bare in mind- if you don't belive just anyone can be visited by an angel you better not be preaching to anyone about faith and believing in God cause you don't believe your self then! What is happening to not only Iraq and the US, but Israel & Palestine -these are huge battles -how can you honestly think these are NOT spiritual. These are gonna happen weather you want it to or not-weather I want it to or not-I don't want it to happen -I love my life!-I love my family! - I love my friends and sunshine and kissing my kids goodnight and wine and treasure hunting and going out for dinners with my husband and shopping and drawing pictures with my kids and sewing and walking on the bluffs and watching movies and the stars and sunsets at the lake and having dinner parties and watching football and drinking coffee and raking leaves and rain and smelling pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving and DisneyWorld and taking showers and talking to friends on-line and singing in the truck on the way to pick my husband up from work and reading and dancing and Christmas and candy and and and and I don't want war-who really does? people who hate -who hate freedom-who hate that we are not under their control-why do you think they hate us? My 6 year old asked me last week why Saddam & Osama hates her-what did she do that made him feel that way-what makes people feel so much negativity that they they don't even give you a choice between living under their rules or death--but then again -is that the choice we are given? What do you think Osama was telling you when he conspired and blew up the trade center? you think he won't come after you? me? He's coming back weather we like it or not-now what are we gonna do to stop him? I am guessing you don't want to stop him and let him kill you?
me2- Do you honestly believe that God is controlling earth, and human will? I believe that God gave us free will, and this is, in part the reason for war. For if we did not have the choice of war, peace and love would have no value. I cannot say that the God that I have learned about and love would ever "plan" war. It is something that happens do to freewill of humans, and perhaps it will always be a part of human life. However, I believe this is waht Jesus is saying to the disciples, there is going to be war, know that this is NOT the end of the world, and stay faithful to what I have taught you. So when war may happen, I believe that as a Christian it is not my role to support the war, but to share why peace is so important. Even though war may be inevitable, I am not going to just sit here and watch, I may not stop the war, but hopefully I will be able to reach maybe just one person and that person will forever have love in their heart, and that one person will be more peaceful.
at the same time 'the end' will happen no matter what-we cant change that. That is a hard concept for most to grasp at.
I agree totally, however sometimes I struggle with the term "the end", for we as Christians know that when our life on earth is over it is only the beginning of eternal life in Heaven. My problem is you say that most people struggle with this concept, and I find it hard to believe that you have it tackled. If you were completely fine with the idea of death, you would not have fear, for you would know that as a faithful follower of Christ you have eternal life. You would still enjoy the things you do in life, but you would realise that all of the joys on earth are nothing compared to the joys of heaven. Once we get past our fears, we are better prepared to make a difference in the world.
"And I think that we in our family, we don't need guns, to destroy or to bring peace-just get together, love one another, bring that peace, that joy, that strength of presence of each other in the home. And we will be able to overcome all that is evil in the world" - Mother Teresa, Nobel Peace Laureate, 1979
THE HOLY TRUTH (And Nothing But)
God don't wear no Calvin Klein's, uh-huh
God don't wear no Calvin Klein's, uh-huh
God don't wear no Calvin Klein's
Just raggedy Rustlers all the time
God don't wear no Calvin Klein's, uh-huh
Angels, they don't fly or fall, uh-huh
Angels, they don't fly or fall, uh-huh
Angels, they don't fly or fall
But they sure play some mean baseball!
Angels, they don't fly or fall, uh-huh
Moses, he don't own no gun, uh-huh
Moses, he don't own no gun, uh-huh
Moses, he don't own no gun
Just plays Ring Toss when he wants some fun
Moses, he don't own no gun, uh-huh
Mary M. had a secret tryst, uh-huh
Mary M. had a secret tryst, uh-huh
Mary M. had a secret tryst
Then gave up men to become a feminist
Mary M. had a secret tryst, uh-uh
Judas gave his coins away, uh-huh
Judas gave his coins away, uh-huh
Judas gave his coins away
Instead of having Hell to pay
Judas gave his coins away, uh-huh
See those homeless 'neath that bridge, uh-huh
See those homeless 'neath that bridge, uh-huh
See those homeless 'neath that bridge
That's the worst kind of sacrilege
Help those homeless 'neath that bridge, uh-huh
Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq, uh-huh
Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq, uh-huh
Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq
He preaches peace and walks the walk
Jesus, He won't bomb Iraq, uh-huh
Dennis- Did you write that?
Me2- I agree with Tim, and think he put it very well. Death is not final and "The End" is just a new beginning. This "spiritual war" is within all of us- a catalyst- to change for the better or fall for the worst, and is fought on a personal level everyday by ordinary people. It may be manifest in this world as war, but winning the physical war doesn't mean winning the spiritual war. The spiritual war is won when people choose not to perpetuate hate (I was taught that two wrongs don't make it right), choose to make the effort to understand and overcome hate, and choose to live in peace.
people who hate -who hate freedom-who hate that we are not under their control-why do you think they hate us?
Why does anyone hate anyone? Fear, jealousy and insecurity are just a few reasons, there are many more. It happens everyday, in every country, The mid east is not the only place it happens.
My 6 year old asked me last week why Saddam & Osama hates her-what did she do that made him feel that way-
I hope you explained to her that they doesn't hate "her" and that "she" didn't do anything. That they are disturbed(bad) men with fanatic(crazy) followers and that they do not represent the majority of Muslims/Arabs. Hatred is a hard thing to explain to children, and unfortunately its something we all have to deal with in life.
a choice between living under their rules or death--but then again -is that the choice we are given?
I don't believe those are the only choices we were given, even the people in their countrys have more choices than that. We can defend ourselves, we can try to understand "why", we can educate people, we can organize people to stand up for themselves, or we can leave. Those are just a few choices we have.
What do you think Osama was telling you when he conspired and blew up the trade center? you think he won't come after you? me? He's coming back weather we like it or not-now what are we gonna do to stop him?
I think its more about power and control, trying to make us fear him. No I don't think he's coming back, after me or you, but if he does I am not afraid of him nor of death. But tell me this, how is going to war with Saadamgoing to stop Osamafrom committing more acts of terror?
All I can say is that it's pretty pathetic when you can realistically hold an entire country hostage with just a few strategically placed sharp shooters and a couple of anthrax scares. We have become unbelievably unaware of the real world around us. Because of that, it is extremely easy to use our own paranoid vulnerability against us. How the hell could the entire mighty United States function if it was hit as often as Israel? It couldn't. We could not 'go on with our normal lives' as it was proposed after 9/11 by Bush. Hopefully we can just move on some day but unfortunately it's going to take a bit more tolerance of the BS before that happens. As it is now, I don't know how the people of Jerusalem carry on with any kind of daily life. That's all.
Buzzed and out.
2/3 Satan Joe
We have become unbelievably unaware of the real world around us.
That's true CM, and probably one of the reasons that "they" hate "us".
Because of that, it is extremely easy to use our own paranoid vulnerability against us.
Easy for both our "government" and the "terrorists"...
CM- Love the new magic mushroom avatar!
...Easy for both our "government" and the "terrorists"...
Very true. Although I think that our government has been using it against it's own people for way longer than the terrorists. Unfortunately for them, they will be held more accountable now that more people are watching their every step. Unfortunately, a lot of the country still doesn't give a shit about anything other than if Ross and Rachael will ever get married. And that's where this 'big strong' country of ours shows it's weak underbelly. It's really sad that unless there are more actual attacks on U.S. soil, the public as a whole won't care about much more than what's on E.T.
Glad ya like the schroooooooooooom ;-)
How the hell could the entire mighty United States function if it was hit as often as Israel? It couldn't.
Maybe at first, but we would get used to it and carry on just like Israel.
very good points cm and artemis, I agree that the government and politions use the publics fear to their advantage. in my opinion, this is the one major reason why the republicans swept these past elections, people that dont really spend the time to resaerch the canidates know that republicans on the whole will spend more money than democrats on the military, they are scared so they voted republican.
I am not saying this is the only reason, but I do think it swayed the people in the middle, and the people who have no particular party affiliation, and people who believe in single issue politics...
I also am a fan of the schrooooooooom!
Reasons to kill Saddam:
Saddam's former mistress:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/iraq_saddam_mistress020908.html
Lampsos saw bin Laden at Saddam's palace in the 1980s, she said, and claimed Saddam's son Oday told her his father met with bin Laden again in the mid-1990s and gave him money.........
Even when relaxing, Saddam's brutal side could come out, she said. According to Lampsos, Saddam loved watching The Godfather, listening to "Strangers in the Night"by Frank Sinatra, or seeing videos of his enemies being tortured. He sometimes donned a cowboy hat, sipped whiskey on the rocks and puffed on a cigar as he watched the torture
Amnesty International annual reports:
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/mde/iraq!Open
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/aireport/ar99/mde14.htm
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/aireport/ar98/mde14.htm
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/aireport/ar97/MDE14.htm
Scores of people, including possible prisoners of conscience and armed forces officers suspected of planning to overthrow the government, were executed. Scores of suspected anti-government opponents, including people suspected of having contacts with opposition groups in exile, were arrested. The fate and whereabouts of most of those arrested, including those detained in previous years, remained unknown. Several people were given lengthy prison terms after grossly unfair trials before special courts. Torture and ill-treatment of political prisoners and detainees were systematic. The two Kurdish political parties controlling Iraqi Kurdistan detained prisoners of conscience, and armed political groups were reportedly responsible for abductions and killings.
Iraq's weapons of mass destruction:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/
Recent Amnesty International press release:
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/offtxts/amnestyint0821.htm
In the body of the report, AI said Iraqi authorities also are said to use such methods as forcing broken bottles and other objects into the anus of victims, extinguishing cigarettes on various parts of the body, extracting fingernails and toenails and piercing the hands with an electric drill. Victims also have been subjected to mock executions and rape, AI said...............
From the White House:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html
Relatives who do not report deserters may lose their ration cards for purchasing government-controlled food supplies, be evicted from their residences, or face the arrest of other family members. The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq reported in October and December 1999 that authorities denied food ration cards to families that failed to send their young sons to the "Saddam's Cubs" compulsory weapons training camps.
Saddam, our modern day Hitler?
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/press/1015hitler.htm
Hitler ignored the surrender agreements Germany signed after World War I. He flaunted the Versailles Peace Treaty and the League of Nations, which was formed to maintain world peace. He occupied the Rhineland and invaded Austria. No one tried to stop him. Nations turned the other way rather than face war.
The Iraqi regime has consistently demonstrated its callous disregard for the dictates of international law and for the sanctity of human life. Saddam has employed weapons of mass destruction against his neighbors and his own people. After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the United Nations Security Council passed 16 resolutions in an effort to curtail Saddam's weapons programs and to bring Iraq back into the community of nations. Sixteen times he defied those resolutions.
Human Rights Watch Reports on Iraq:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/world/iraq-pubs.php
For the first time ever, scientists have been able to prove the use of chemical weapons through the analysis of environmental residues taken years after such an attack occurred. In a development that could have far-reaching consequences for the enforcement of the chemical weapons treaty, soil samples taken from bomb craters near a Kurdish village in northern Iraq by a team of forensic scientists have been found to contain trace evidence of nerve gas, GB, also known as Sarin, as well as mustard gas.
Think of the power those weapons inspectors will have. If Sadam's goons so much as sneeze out of turn, it could easily be the start of WWIII. I guess the big compromise now is what the UN and US can agree on that constitutes noncompliance. I'm sure Bush will say that if we find an unaccounted firecracker, it's bye bye time. Where the HR thinking UN will wait until they stumble across a H bomb. It may be awhile until a common resolution is set in place, so don't start buying those fatigues just yet.
We'll play cat and mouse for awhile, but eventually we'll be going into Iraq.
Saddam has proven time and again that he has no intention of abiding by any agreement he makes.
it could easily be the start of WWIII
In case you haven't noticed, we are in a world wide war. The Islamic radicals are determined to achieve world domination under Islamic law. They do not care who they kill in the process. Women, children, non-combatants, their own people, are all targets of theirs. It does not matter to them as long as they control the world.
Oh and may I add SCREW the U.N. As far as I am concerned they are useless.
For those who will be calling me a liar and asking for proof, here you go.
Islam the Last Hope for Mankind
My dear Muslim brother and Sisters today Humanitystands at the crossroad, with but two options available for the inhabitants of this earth.Either to remain in this grieving and sad state of affairs that we find ourselves in today under the tentacles of Capitalism or to accept Islam as an ideological alternative to Capitalist exploitation and hegemony and as the only and true last hope for mankind.
Today we live in a world, where the lethal cocktail of freedoms, individualism and benefit leaves its scars on society be it through the kidnapping, rape and murder of preteen school girls, the rape of a helpless 90 year old women lying on makeshift bed in a hospital corridor awaiting treatment, the senseless stabbing of a boy simply because he speaks differently or the murder of a father by his two 13 & 14 year old sons who took a bat to his head because he disallowed them to play computer games late at night.
Today we live in a world, where there is little value given to human life in pursuit of economic and political gains be it the bombing of innocent civilians or the crippling of nations through globalisation.
Indeed today there is much hardship and oppression in the world that reflects the absence of justice, just men, and just systems. Much anguish and suffering that reflects the flawed politics, flawed governments, flawed values and flawed principles that shape the political landscapes of the earthand regulate the affairs of man.
It time for a fundamental change
It is time for Islam
In case you haven't noticed, we are in a world wide war
We haven't even touched the surface of what a real war would be now in the 21st century.
SILENCE IS BETRAYAL
Dan Handelman is haunted by two images of Iraq that most Americans never see on television.
One is a frail two-year-old slowly dying of dehydration in a Basra hospital while his mother sits next to him, helpless to stop the ravages of diarrhea and infection. He is, according the World Health Agency, one of the 5,000 Iraqi children who die of water-borne diseases and malnutrition each month.
The other is a group of children begging in the streets. "There were no beggars in Baghdad before the Gulf War, and now many of them have to beg rather than be in school," he says. Indeed, Iraq used to have the highest literacy rate in the Arab world--95%--but according to UNICEF, 30% of its children no longer attend school.
Handleman, a member of Friends of Voices in the Wilderness, is from Portland, Oregon, and along with a handful of other Americans, has traveled to Iraq to witness first hand the ravages of war and sanctions-- and to record what is being done in our name.
The young boy in Basra is dying because the U.S. systematically targeted water purification plants and electrical generators in the 1991 Gulf War. We certainly didn't bomb those targets by accident. According to Col. John Warden, the deputy director of strategy, doctrine, and plans for the U.S. Air Force, the purpose of the attacks was "to accelerate the effects of [economic] sanctions" and increase "long-term leverage."
The bombing knocked out almost 97% of the country's electrical capacity, a disaster in a highly mechanized and electricity dependent society like Iraq. In the first eight months following the war, 47,000 children died of diseases like cholera, typhoid, and gastroenteritis. More than a half million have followed them in the past decade, and infant mortality has tripled.
Much of the responsibility for this rests on the shoulders of the Clinton administration, which knew what was happening to Iraq's children. In 1996, Leslie Stahl of CBS asked Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but price, we think the price is worth it."
Such bombing is in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, which explicitly states that "It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove, or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies, and irrigation works."
There is a cruelty in all this that most Americans would recoil from. "The sanctions let water pumps in," says Handleman (which are essential for combating water-borne diseases), "but not the ball bearings that they need to function." He adds the sanctions let in syringes, "but not needles. You can get IV (intravenous) bags for combating dehydration, but not the needles that allow you to put the fluids into a child."
The so-called "Food for Oil" program has been a flat-out failure, and not, according to the UN, because of the Hussein government. "The magnitude of the humanitarian needs is such," states a 1999 UN report, "that they cannot be met within the parameters set forth in Resolution 986,"(the Security Council resolution that set up Food for Oil).
Malnutrition is spreading, in large part according to the UN, because of the "massive deterioration of the basic infrastructure, particularly in the water supply and disposal system." Besides the deliberate destruction of the civilian infrastructure, the backwash of war also continues to take a steady toll on Iraqi civilians. Southern Iraq was saturated with almost a million rounds of Depleted Uranium Ammunition, which has raised radioactive levels 150 to 200 times over background levels.
Basra Hospital Director Akram Abed Hassan says, "Our cancer incidence has increased 10 times during the past few years. Before, we had very few patients under 30, now we're operating on 10-year-old girls with breast cancer." Leukemia and kidney failure rates have also risen sharply.
The Bush administration says we are after Saddam Hussein, but for the past 10 years, as Handelman points out, the victims have been "the 23 million people of Iraq." A new war, he argues, will immeasurably worsen an already terrible situation.
Iraq lost several thousand civilians in Gulf War I, and the Pentagon Projects Gulf War II will kill another 10,000, not counting those who will die from the consequences of bombing. Of course, in a sense, we are already at war with Iraq. The U.S. and Britain have dropped more bombs on Iraq since 1999 than were dropped on Serbia in the Kosovo War, and have sharply stepped up the air campaign over the past two weeks.
That bombing has taken a steady toll on civilians, as it has in Afghanistan. For all the hype about "smart bombs" and "surgical strikes," more than 3,000 Afghan civilians have died from U.S, bombs, and it is scary to contemplate what an aerial assault on Baghdad, a city of five million, will do.
All of this will be carried out in our name unless Americans do something to stop it. "A time has come when silence is betrayal," Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. said about Vietnam, another war that targeted civilians, "that time is now."
--Conn Hallinan, Z Net
The foregoing post, by a fellow Finnish-American progressive, reveals some of the grisly realities -- the criminal horrors -- our bipartisan policy of hostility toward Iraq has entailed for more than a decade.
By rights, it's Iraq that could make a compelling case for attacking America, in righteous revenge.
Not the U.S. overthrowing its government, by invasive aggression, to
put into power a Karzai-style puppet who'll give Bush/Cheney the same
oil control they got through pipeline concessions in Afghanistan.
By the way, there's a panhandler in Duluth who's using a related political approach to get some spare change.
My wife tells me she was approached by a fellow who asked her, "Would
you want to see your boy killed in a war for oil?"
She emphatically replied, "No!"
He then asked if she'd be kind enough to help a veteran down on his luck.
A shockingly high number of our country's homeless are veterans, many from the Vietnam era.
So...how's about creating a whole new slew of returning veterans, to try to deal with all their trauma in an economy ruined by guns-before-butter priorities?
No thanks.
Count me as a conscientious objector on this entire, cruel folly.
Finally, have you noticed how all Muslims are becoming scapegoats for an increasingly rightwing (in many ways crypto-fascistic) U.S. power structure, and its conservative allies in the general populace?
Shades of Nazi Germany's castigation/persecution of Jews to divert attention from fascism's true, vicious, monopoly-serving intent.
So many disturbing parallels.
Freedoms vanishing, militarism rampant.
All that orchestrated, flag-waving jingoism...
My problem is you say that most people struggle with this concept, and I find it hard to believe that you have it tackled. If you were completely fine with the idea of death, you would not have fear, for you would know that as a faithful follower of Christ you have eternal life. You would still enjoy the things you do in life, but you would realise that all of the joys on earth are nothing compared to the joys of heaven.
I don't think I have said at any time that I had a problem with death-I do love life and I do love what will happen to me after I die, I look forward to it-BUT-I don't like that I may not see some friends or family when it happens-I don't recall if it's Biblical or not but I was told years ago that we will not remember the 'non-believers' after going to Heaven. That they would look up from hell and see us but we would never see them. If anyone know anything on this I am interested to hear it. Tim, I do however agree with most of this particular post of yours. That was your best post yet :) - I do have trouble however grasping that a human can have so much hatred and want that much control. We will not be able to change his mind even if we didn't go into Iraq-he wants full control-I understand showing people peace-in the same breath, Saddam or Bin Laden will be sending bombs to Britian or the US and we will have to defend ourselves-
ooor? will you not defend yourself? just wondering. ooor, do you think Bin Laden or Saddam will back down and not torture people or hurt people in the USA? If George W Bush says "hey, lets just pull our troops out and drop everything-let him do what he wants to do in his country and to ours'... what do you think will happen? Is that what you want George to do? -just wondering
either way someone dies :(
Bin Laden doesn't want peace- This isn't just about the US-cause even if Bin Laden trusted the USA he still wants control-not just of his country but the world.
Ah-and I agree with a lot of what Timmers says too -I just have a slight different view on defense. Maybe it's selfish-??-I worry too much about what will happen to some of the people I love that have not said 'Jesus, I give my life to you' --I am still working on them and don't want to fall short of missing anyone before Bin Laden 'takes us out' I guess... if we don't defend ourselves.
Israel looks on their own (who is siding with Israel?)
USA wants Israel to give land to Palestine
Russia and China say to USA-don't mess with Iraq - cause Russia/China & Iraq are hooking up?
A Peace Rally You Can Really Get Behind
A Peace Rally You Can Really Get Behind
What a bunch of maroons.
maroon MILF's that is. (except for that one in the 'E' though)
I understand the British anti-war movement intends to take Blair to court, on the basis of international law, to try to prevent him from launching Britain into aggressive war against Iraq.
Make sure you let us know how that turns out.
o While Timothy McVeigh, the man executed for his role in the bombing, was widely portrayed as no more than a disgruntled Army veteran, he expressed to friends and at least once publicly (on "60 Minutes") his sympathy for Middle Eastern peoples he felt were victimized by American foreign policy. Shortly after McVeigh's arrest, one of his acquaintances from the military told ABC's "Prime Time Live" that "Tim always wanted to become a mercenary" preferably for a Mideast country because they "paid the best."
o On March 3, 1995, the House of Representatives' Terrorism Task Force issued a warning that Mideast terrorists were planning attacks on the "heart of the U.S.," identifying twelve cities as potential targets, including Oklahoma City. It reported that the terrorists had recruited two "lily whites" -- individuals with no criminal history or obvious connections to the perpetrating organization -- to carry out the bombing of an American federal building.
o Six months prior to the bombing, an Oklahoma City-based Palestinian immigrant who had previously served time for a felony fraud conviction, hired a handful of former Iraqi soldiers to do maintenance work on some of the $4 million in rental property he owned. American co-workers reported their horror as these soldiers "expressed prideful excitement" at initial reports that Islamic extremists had taken credit for the Murrah bombing and "exuberently pledged their allegiance to Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein." Witnesses have put McVeigh and his convicted co-conspirator, Terry Nichols, in the company of these soldiers on one or more occasions.
o Importantly, Ms. Davis has determined that one of these soldiers, Hussain Alhussaini, closely matches the composite picture of "John Doe 2" drawn on the basis of numerous eye-witnesses who claim to have seen such a heavy-set, dark-complexioned Middle Eastern man: in the Ryder truck used to destroy the Murrah Building minutes before the attack; putting diesel fuel -- which, together with fertilizer, powered the explosion -- into the vehicle that morning, (even though the truck's own engine used unleaded fuel); at the scene of the crime getting out of the truck seconds before it blew up; and/or fleeing the site in a brown Chevy pickup. Other witnesses had previously seen such a truck parked at the Palestinian's real estate offices before the attack.
Dan, I could easily substitute the word "Christ" for "Islam" and find a paper written by Christian TV dinks like Pat Robertson, or that fat-ass Jerry Falwell, using the exact same ideological doublespeak, to sway their masses.
Well then, Fold, please show us. I do not follow Robertson or Falwell, but I doubt that they are calling for any shaping of political landscapes or regulating the affairs of men.
Here's another one for you:
Please show us where Robertson or Falwell are saying it is alright for us to overthough anyone simply because they will not convert to Christianity.
Look at that, Dan.
Try www.liberalscannotbackuptheiroutrageousstatements.org
thisisafungame.net
http://commondreams.org/views02/1120-04.htm
War OK? Listen to veterans.
Ignorance can be bliss--- but it is still so unbecoming: Here is a link--- since Don seems to base everything he believes on internet links--- straight from the horse's ass' mouth:
I founded the Christian Coalition as pro-family citizen action organization to impact public policy on a local, state, and national level. The Coalition also serves to teach Christians effective citizenship, and to promote Christian values in government. During the last decade the Christian Coalition of America has proven repeatedly to be the leading voice advocating the pro-family agenda at every level of government.
Here's more from an anti-Robertson site which is probably considered irrelevant to Don because it is biased although it quotes the man's own words anyway. "When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'"
-from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218
Ignorance--- it's a great thing isn't it Don?
since Don seems to base everything he believes on internet links--- straight from the horse's ass' mouth:
Since there is no "Don" here, I assume you are talking to me.
As I said, I do not follow Robertson or the others, so pick away at them if you wish.
Big difference between trying to get people to elect you based on your beliefs rather than scaring them into giving into you. Muslims prefer strapping bombs around the young people and blowing up crowds if they do not convert.
I take it that you see as a bad thing that he would not put muslims in government. Well, who was it that crashed planes into buildings on 9/11? Are these the people you wish to have governing us? Not me.
How you got that I base my beliefs on internet links is beyond me. I did ask for some type of proof of his statement. If internet links were truthful, then you must have been arrested at today, which I doubt has ever happened. Click hereto see what I am talking about.
Fostering bigotry against a whole people/religion
via crude generalizations and stereotypes, eh, Dan?
What would Jesus say?
Fostering bigotry against a whole people/religion via crude generalizations and stereotypes, eh, Dan?
This from the man who believes that the Republicans are there for the use of big buisiness.
Muslims are from all racial backgrounds, Dennis, so trying to make me look like a racist is absurd. Look at what they preach to their own people in their own words Dennis, not some LiberalSlant.com piece. Link
What would Jesus say?
I thought that you were an athiest? I could have you mixed up with someone else though.
I think that Jesus would say that these people are an abomination and we should have nothing to do with them, but who knows for sure?
we should have nothing to do with them
one of the problems is they won't leave us alone!
I feel like that old phrase-'shue fly don't bother me' but they won't go away! they just keep buzzing around! ::SWAT:: 'squash you like a bug'....oooops, sorry Ares- don't hurt them there so cute! ggeeesh.
I am watching Ghandi with my 6 & 11 year old---watched 1/2 last night-the rest tonight. So far he says he is for peace. Britian set laws on India but Ghandi/India is not gonna abide the new laws...and he said he would allow Britian to protect India during war. BUT - I thought we are supposed to follow our government laws no matter how stupid or inappropriate they are- Maybe I will understand more when I watch the 2nd half.
Ghandi started protest campaigns and organized provocating demonstrations, but never used violence. His philosophy was to never fight back against the atrocities, but still never retreat. This, he said, would decrease the hate against him and his fellow believers, and increase the respect felt towards him. Gandhi's one aim was that everybody - hindues, muslims, sikhs, jews, christians, black and white - could live together in peace and harmony.
Never fight back with violence-that would be wonderful--BUT, Back then- British Soldiers were not gonna blow themselves up to kill as many Indian people as they could---Bin Laden will never have respect for Americans :(
oooops, sorry Ares- don't hurt them there so cute!
sorry, dear, but although they might be cute, crickets are damn annoying.
Dan, do you feel Christianity is an a battle with Islam for the future of humanity, and that we're the "good guys"?
Dan, do you feel Christianity is an a battle with Islam for the future of humanity, and that we're the "good guys"?
Not by the choice of the Christians or America which they perceive as being Christian. It can be proven by the words that the Islamic extremist preach and by their actions as well. 9/11 being the most infamous.
I'm not aware of any religious groups in the U.S., calling for the destruction of say Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, or even Iraq.
Some of history's bloodiest wars and destructive biases have been perpetrated by zealots from one Godly belief system or another designating followers of a different, competing spirituality..."infidels".
Jews vs. Muslims. Muslims vs. Hindus. Christianity, with a Bible in one hand and a sword in the other, out to "convert" the world. It's been sordid and ugly, and continues to be to this very day.
Nevertheless, our species has a spiritual craving that needs to be met.
I believe in ecumenism and tolerance, a celebration of diversity, and
strict avoidance of the arrogant folly which sees one religion as the Only True Way and all others as irrelevant at best, and Satanic at worst.
That's also the best approach regarding politics and economy. There should be no forceful effort by those who happen to have the most strength at any given time (America and Bush, now) to impose a single "model" on humankind. Capitalism, socialism, and experimentative mixtures of both should all be peacefully striving to win adherents, based on performance, without efforts to scuttle the others' activities.
As an activist in one of the two great coalitions that resisted the Vietnam War, I personally worked with Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc., all in respectful harmony. Capitalist professionals and Communist organizers would strategize together, and convivially break bread afterward. We attempted to get Republican California Congressman Paul McCluskey to run for president, shifting to George McGovern as he became the more viable option.
In April of 1971, along with 250,000 people of all persuasions, backgrounds and races, I marched down Constitution Avenue, a Midwestern Finlander holding one end of a "Vive Puerto Rico Libre" banner that stretched entirely across that wide street.
As our varied contingents passed the front window of a second-floor dance studio, little Black girls in matching costumes and choreography pressed the peace sign against the glass, to our resounding cheers. At that instant we knew we had the cohesive unity to eventually prevail, and that Richard Nixon was a doomed man.
I won't engage in attacking others with whom I know I can find common ground, when there are individuals, institutions and polices in our own country that collectively inflict greater damage on the peoples of the world -- and the planet itself -- than anyone else could even remotely inflict on us, even if the vilest slanders against them were true...and that were their actual, mass intent.
If we broadly unite to remedy what's wrong and evil in our midst, we'll obviate the basis for escalating animosity toward America around the globe.
That's how we'll ultimately triumph over terrorism.
If we broadly unite to remedy what's wrong and evil in our midst....
That's well and good Dennis, but most people don't agree with you on whom or what is the evil in our midst.
That's well and good Dennis, but most people don't agree with you on whom or what is the evil in our midst.
link
These are his words from a site that follows his teachings.
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/11/18/tomo/story.jpg
Pinned down at last!
The realreason why we're going to war...