There you go mixing issues and fcts. It was my understanding that Iraq was less religious than most of the other Arab nations, but I may be wrong there.
American gangs will shoot a gun at people that threaten them. Canadian gangs will shoot a hockey puck at people that threaten them. That's the difference
Hmm, one thing I wonder about is the effect of media on this all. Some of think it may be gangs. We've seen things on the news about gang wars, you've got gangsta rap on MTV, the Sopranos and other mafia shows. Some wonder about adultery being a cause. Sounds like something from Maury or Sally Jesse, maybe even Law & Order or CSI. Some of these storylines get sensationalized, or are apparently popular with tv viewers. I'm not saying that tv causes us to get guns and use them, or go out to buy Tide because it works, or that the winner of American Idol will be the next Britney Spears. But it could play on fears of people. Introduce people to knew thoughts and ideas, new fears.
That's the problem is that it's not the number or lack of laws. It all comes down to individuals making decisions. There are around 22,000 laws in different communities regarding guns. The laws have increased as have gun crimes. It's time perhaps to look at the people and what makes someone do such a thing. I recently read somewhere that the TOTAL murder rate in 1890 was 218 for the entire nation. So that included stabbings, beatings etc. Most homes had guns in them and you could buy a repeating (assault) rifle at the dry goods or hardware store. Many people carried them on their person. Kids used to bring their guns to school to go hunting after school. Most kids had guns or got them as gifts at a young age, usually 10 or 11 years old.
Were they going to school and pumping kids full of lead ? Were 13 year olds getting charged with murder or rape ? Was there the level of violence per capita that we see today ? No. Something caused it and it's not a piece of blued steel, it's a person that decides to use it to kill another person. It's something we've had the ability to do easily for the last 100 years. the last 25 of those seeing the most signifigant number of crimes. Is it the number of guns ? Many people own several guns. It only takes one. So lessening the number won't do it. The failure I believe is the misguided effort not to try to find why people are doing these things in the first place. Instead it's too easy and politically expedient to try to demonize an object when we ought to be looking at the person pulling the trigger.
BTW I have several weapons. Some were my great great grandfathers that he got as a youth. All of them happen to be locked in a safe. I don't begrudge the right granted in the constitution to anyone however.
O.K so let's say the person like me who has 7 guns turns them all over to the peoples board of safety. Now I have 1. Let's say they do that to every gun owner. Do you think crime would go down because everybody who owns guns now only has 1 instead of 7 ?
When we say alot of guns per person of course it's going to be high because of the example I just used. I doubt the criminals participated in the survey or registered their handguns.
I wonder if the criminals would abide by that law ?
Here's some facts from the US Dept of justice. Look at the numbers for youth and the number of gang related or deaths that resulted from criminal activity. The numbers are stunning.
Over one-quarter of the victims of gang-related killings are under the age of 18. Juveniles are also unusually involved as victims of family members, sex-related homicides, and homicide by arson or poison. At the other extreme, felony-murder, workplace murder and arson homicides claim a relatively large percentage of older victims. Juveniles are especially implicated as offenders in homicides that involve multiple perpetrators, that are gang-related, and, to a lesser extent, that are felony-related. Â Â
the offending rates for children under age 14 changed little 18-24 year-olds have historically had the highest offending rates and their rates doubled from 1985 to 1993. Since 1993, offending rates for 18-24 year-olds have declined but remain higher than levels prior to the mid 1980's the homicide offending rates of 14-17 year-olds exploded after 1985, surpassing the rates of 25-34 year-olds and 35-49 year-olds. Recently, the offending rates for 14-17 year-olds have fallen below those for 25-34 year-olds To view data, click on the chart. Â Â
These are just some of the numbers at the bottom. Remember this is homicide in total not just gun murders. These numbers posted will make more sense if you look at the whole page.
Circumstances   Felony murder 7.7% 46.4% 21.4% 24.5% 15.6% 72.8% 9.7% 1.9%   Sex related 19.8% 45.5% 15.9% 18.7% 10.9% 74.3% 12.7% 2.1%   Drug related 5.5% 72.2% 19.3% 3.0% 12.0% 75.9% 10.9% 1.1%   Gang related 26.8% 66.2% 5.7% 1.3% 32.8% 65.6% 1.4% .3%   Argument 5.4% 56.6% 26.0% 12.0% 6.9% 60.2% 23.2% 9.8%   Workplace 2.2% 28.4% 31.0% 38.4% 5.1% 51.9% 26.9% 16.0%
Weapon   Gun homicide 7.5% 58.8% 22.5% 11.2% 11.5% 62.4% 17.5% 8.6%   Arson 28.4% 27.2% 18.8% 25.6% 11.8% 58.6% 22.7% 6.9%   Poison 26.8% 25.9% 16.1% 31.2% 3.6% 53.2% 26.5% 16.7%
because we have a disproportionate number of criminals perhaps?
slot machine joe. luv, i've taken to just biting my hand. :)
a Canadian table or an American table.
okay, it's not the gun...but both America and Canada have people, that's not the difference.
What is the difference between us that causes such a disparate number of gun murders?
do I need to ask this four times before you understand the question?
that's not a reason, that's a restating of the problem.
Charlton Heston once hinted that it might have something to do with the number of minoritiesin the US.
But go to Canada and you'll see every race, creed and color.
Alot of those murders are gang related. I am asking because I don't know, does Canada have a gang problem on the scale we do ?
where is the fault in America that causes the disproportionate gun murder.
Moral decay of society, perhaps?
i'd say you're getting close there, luv. and you too, thx.
so...Canadians are more "moral" then us?
I see.
rolls eyes
"Canadians are more "moral" then us? "
They're certainly more liberal!!!!!
maybe if we socialized our medical system, gun murder would drop
maybe if we allowed God in our schools, gun murder would drop
Yea and if we got rid of defense and put it all into education nobody would attack us either. Good thinking Crabs.
allowed God?
you can do that?
even I'm not THAT confident as to say that I allow God something.
look at countries who don't get attacked as much and see if they are well educated
You liberals either don't believe in God or you find Him an impediment to your hedonistic desires.
those people in Iraq believe in a God...a LOT
I'm sure you can provide us with facts for that. Let's see the 9-11 highjackers were mostly middle class well educated and well traveled.
"So Osama, you think we ought to attack Japan ?" >..."Well I would but they are well educated" "I know how about America, there test scores are lower"
those people in Iraq believe in a God...a LOT
There you go mixing issues and fcts. It was my understanding that Iraq was less religious than most of the other Arab nations, but I may be wrong there.
look it up yourself
that IS your line, isn't it?
so let's kill them?
No your line is that hey you said it so you do it, nah nah nah nah boo boo or something sophisticated and articulate as that.
LOL Thanks for the chuckle Crabs
American gangs will shoot a gun at people that threaten them. Canadian gangs will shoot a hockey puck at people that threaten them. That's the difference
The US would do better with a lot more hockey and a lot fewer guns in my opinion.
Hey TMK, How ya doing ?
I'm trying to find some stats on gang violence in Canada. I could be wrong but I would be surprised if it's higher.
800 Joe ! Sorry Rick :)
Just missed the joe
so let's kill them?
Now, crabs, can't you refrain from the dishonesty? Or is it deeply embedded in you?
I seriously doubt that it's gangs that tip the scales against the US.
It's more often: A comes home, finds B in bed with C.
A has a gun generally within arms length of wherever he stands.
A shoots B and C.
Heya luv. Hope you all don't mind my interjecting. Just a little humor to keep things light.
Maybe that should make B and C think twice about getting into bed together.
A fatal mistake, no doubt.
Hmm, one thing I wonder about is the effect of media on this all. Some of think it may be gangs. We've seen things on the news about gang wars, you've got gangsta rap on MTV, the Sopranos and other mafia shows. Some wonder about adultery being a cause. Sounds like something from Maury or Sally Jesse, maybe even Law & Order or CSI. Some of these storylines get sensationalized, or are apparently popular with tv viewers. I'm not saying that tv causes us to get guns and use them, or go out to buy Tide because it works, or that the winner of American Idol will be the next Britney Spears. But it could play on fears of people. Introduce people to knew thoughts and ideas, new fears.
Rick,
That's the problem is that it's not the number or lack of laws. It all comes down to individuals making decisions. There are around 22,000 laws in different communities regarding guns. The laws have increased as have gun crimes. It's time perhaps to look at the people and what makes someone do such a thing. I recently read somewhere that the TOTAL murder rate in 1890 was 218 for the entire nation. So that included stabbings, beatings etc. Most homes had guns in them and you could buy a repeating (assault) rifle at the dry goods or hardware store. Many people carried them on their person. Kids used to bring their guns to school to go hunting after school. Most kids had guns or got them as gifts at a young age, usually 10 or 11 years old.
Were they going to school and pumping kids full of lead ? Were 13 year olds getting charged with murder or rape ? Was there the level of violence per capita that we see today ? No. Something caused it and it's not a piece of blued steel, it's a person that decides to use it to kill another person. It's something we've had the ability to do easily for the last 100 years. the last 25 of those seeing the most signifigant number of crimes. Is it the number of guns ? Many people own several guns. It only takes one. So lessening the number won't do it. The failure I believe is the misguided effort not to try to find why people are doing these things in the first place. Instead it's too easy and politically expedient to try to demonize an object when we ought to be looking at the person pulling the trigger.
BTW I have several weapons. Some were my great great grandfathers that he got as a youth. All of them happen to be locked in a safe. I don't begrudge the right granted in the constitution to anyone however.
Rob:
I'd agree with most of the reasons cited this morning for the appalling murder rates in the United States.
We have it all here in the United States and a lotta guns.
Rick,
O.K so let's say the person like me who has 7 guns turns them all over to the peoples board of safety. Now I have 1. Let's say they do that to every gun owner. Do you think crime would go down because everybody who owns guns now only has 1 instead of 7 ?
When we say alot of guns per person of course it's going to be high because of the example I just used. I doubt the criminals participated in the survey or registered their handguns.
I wonder if the criminals would abide by that law ?
you want honesty...you just said on another thread...
now you are saying "let's kill them" is dishonest?
you do understand that war involves killing them, don't you?
I doubt the criminals participated in the survey or registered their handguns.
they certainly can't be compelled to register them. the supreme court ruled that violates the 5th amendment.
Here's some facts from the US Dept of justice. Look at the numbers for youth and the number of gang related or deaths that resulted from criminal activity. The numbers are stunning.
These are just some of the numbers at the bottom. Remember this is homicide in total not just gun murders. These numbers posted will make more sense if you look at the whole page.
Circumstances
  Felony murder 7.7% 46.4% 21.4% 24.5% 15.6% 72.8% 9.7% 1.9%
  Sex related 19.8% 45.5% 15.9% 18.7% 10.9% 74.3% 12.7% 2.1%
  Drug related 5.5% 72.2% 19.3% 3.0% 12.0% 75.9% 10.9% 1.1%
  Gang related 26.8% 66.2% 5.7% 1.3% 32.8% 65.6% 1.4% .3%
  Argument 5.4% 56.6% 26.0% 12.0% 6.9% 60.2% 23.2% 9.8%
  Workplace 2.2% 28.4% 31.0% 38.4% 5.1% 51.9% 26.9% 16.0%
Weapon
  Gun homicide 7.5% 58.8% 22.5% 11.2% 11.5% 62.4% 17.5% 8.6%
  Arson 28.4% 27.2% 18.8% 25.6% 11.8% 58.6% 22.7% 6.9%
  Poison 26.8% 25.9% 16.1% 31.2% 3.6% 53.2% 26.5% 16.7%
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm
stay on topic, crabs. don't mix issues. some one might think you are scatterbrained.
one might think that this is an attempt to avoid addressing what I said.
I really don't know exactly what it is you said, crabs, you keep mixing issues.
if you don't know what I said, how can you know it was mixing issues?
I've owned guns since I can remember.
I think I was 5 when I got my first BB gun.
I've yet to shoot anyone.
You didn't shoot your eye out ?
BTW, more kids die from drowning accidents then they do firearm accidents. I say ban bathtubs, pools and lakes now damnit. We have too many of them :)
what, you fought off all those rapists and murderers with your bare hands!?
what, you fought off all those rapists and murderers with your bare hands!?
Joke about it all you want. I was glad to have my Glock pointed at some freaks head a few months back when he was trying to get in my house.
Forget it JT, Rhetoric is all that they have. It's much easier to demonize an inanimate object than it is to look at facts.
Wether it's a gun, a car or a coprporation. It doesn't matter one bad one makes them all bad don't you know.
wasn't someone just trying to lecture me on INTENT
what's the INTENT of a car?
what's the INTENT of a bullet?
There's no intent on an inanimate object, unless of course you're trapped in a Disney cartoon.
what was the intent of their being made in the first place.
the INTENT of a swimming pool is to swim in, the INTENT of a car is for transportation.
the INTENT of a handgun is to kill a human being.
if you don't know what I said, how can you know it was mixing issues?
Coherence, crabs, learn it, practice it!