not really, thx. the establishment clause in the first amendment can't be broken down much simpler than what crabgrass did. especially when you put it in the context that this country was colonised by people who came here to escape persecution back home for their religious beliefs.
especially when you put it in the context that this country was colonised by people who came here to escape persecution back home for their religious beliefs.
The fact is only Congress was prohibited from establishing a religion. At the time the Constitution was passed nine of the 13 colonies, I believe that number is correct, had established religions. I think it was Massachusetts that had an established religion until the 1830's. The fact also remains that the 14th amendment was designed to try to give blacks equal treatment under state laws and that is all. That was the interpretation well into the 20th century. That was until liberals decided they could legislate from the bench.
so, someone can send their kid to public school and have him perform satanic rituals between classes, right?
No. The point has always been that the Constitution does not prohibit religion in schools, only that Congress can't legislate on the matter. That is the plain language of the document. The intent (there is that tricky word again, crabs) of the Constitution was to let the states legislate in this area.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
It was desgined so that there wouldn't be an official religion. It had nothing to do with federal money going to a private school.
if Federal money goes to a private school that is a religion,
No it doesn't.
it establishes a government religion.
If it were only giving it to say Catholic schools and not Jewish ones then I would agree it would be. So as long as it doesn't discriminate then it's not establishing any one religion.
where the official name is actually the church of england, as by law established.
Bingo !
Notice the word "establish" If a religion is already established you can't re-establish it. It was designed so that we couldn't make ip our own state church and prohibit others. Last time I looked you can be any religion in this country and rightfully so.
and if the state reps say "take a flying fuck, your kids will be indoctrinated into Satanism and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it"?
Then a number of things might happen. You could put your kids in private school. You can vote the reps out. But if the majority want satan in the schools that would be the community standard.
you realize that's what has led to a great deal of the strife and war in the world, don't you?
I know that the Constitution was written with the idea that religious matters would be left to the states without federal interference.
fuck that with a big ol' fuck that.
Like I said there is a forum that would welcome you with open arms. They even use the same language. You probably already know that, though. Do YOU have another user name?
fuck people's right to be free from someone else's religion?
Of course not they don't have to go to that school. If the raelians or church of satan want's to have a school and be able to give an education so be it. I might not agree with their views but I pay now for schools that don't support them either or indoctrinate them against my beliefs. The difference you fail miserbly to see is that that way people would actually have a CHOICE where to esnd their children.
You are obviously bitter or upset about something and unable to debate reasonably so I bid you adeiu until next time.
the intent of the framers was varied...the Constitution represents a compromise. A compromise with Religious fundies who wanted to make this a Theocracy.
A compromise with Religious fundies who wanted to make this a Theocracy.
I don't think theocracy was ever an issue, monarchy yes. But the fact remains the religion was left to the states to determine for themselves without federal interference.
yes...and I won't use it to teach your kid MY religion.
Liberal morals (religion in my mind) is being taught this very moment in our public schools.
okay if we teach your kids to want to kill those that don't believe what you want them to?
Of course not, and that's exactly why my children attend private school. That's why parents should have true choice. So they don't have to send their kids to public school.
Liberal morals (religion in my mind) is being taught this very moment in our public schools.
What are "liberal morals?" You mean egalitarianism, basic politeness toward, and tolerance for, those who are different -- that sort of thing? How is this a "religion?"
What are "liberal morals?" You mean egalitarianism, basic politeness toward, and tolerance for, those who are different -- that sort of thing? How is this a "religion?"
Like blaming the Republicans for Paul Wellstone's plane crashing.
Yes, that's very tolerant for those who are different.
Or praising the Wellstone family for uninviting the Vice President.
First of all welcome. I don't believe I've seen you post here before but glad you are and you are certainly welcome.
What are "liberal morals?" You mean egalitarianism, basic politeness toward, and tolerance for, those who are different -- that sort of thing? How is this a "religion?"
I don't think it's a religion and there's nothing wrong with doing so or practicing what you mentioned. I don't like to generalize but in many cases the morals of egalitarinaism and tolerance for those who are different are not displayed sometimes in debate here by some of those who claim to be. I am guilty of is as well so I can't throw stones but I think the responses you are or will see reflect that. I've seen some pretty intolerant things of conservatives AND liberals.
I can't speak for THX but perhaps what he was getting at is some of the "social" aspects that are taught in schools. For example, many people don't like having their kids told that say a gay lifestyle is acceptable. I personally have no problems with it I use it as an example. For instance if you were watching a news story and you found out that a teacher was talking about how bad abortion was or saying that gun control laws are bad I assume you or someone else would take exception to that. Someone would for sure and that I think is the problem. Social issues shouldn't be taught because of the wide array of beliefs. In public schools it should strictly be about reading writing etc. That's the purpose of schools or at least that's what it used to be before we've allowed or burdened schools with also teaching values to our children.
gay rights, teen sex, global warming, the joy of baby butchery, hatred of conservatives, to name a few.
Ah, a straight answer. Thanks, jethro!
Gay rights: you mean tolerance of and basic politeness towards those who are different, I presume.
Teen sex: hmmm, somehow I doubt that our public schools are teaching teen sex. I went to public school, and at no point was I pressured by teachers to give up my virginity.
Global warming: as part of environmental awareness, perhaps. I don't have a problem with that.
The joy of baby butchery: uh-uh ... does not ring true.
Hatred of conservatives: taught in school? Highly doubtful.
But what you've said so far, plus your tagline*, makes me wonder if someone's been teaching you to hate liberals. It's beginning to sound like you've been spending too much time tuned into propaganda (aka hate) radio.
* "Feel the love. And then take responsibility for it instead of trying to butcher it on a whim you corrupt, immoral liberal".
give me time.
is that a technical term?
It means you're grasping for straws.
The question still stands.
not really, thx. the establishment clause in the first amendment can't be broken down much simpler than what crabgrass did. especially when you put it in the context that this country was colonised by people who came here to escape persecution back home for their religious beliefs.
oh..."Fiddle Faddle" is a question?
well, then the answer is " Screaming Yellow Zonkers®"
especially when you put it in the context that this country was colonised by people who came here to escape persecution back home for their religious beliefs.
The fact is only Congress was prohibited from establishing a religion. At the time the Constitution was passed nine of the 13 colonies, I believe that number is correct, had established religions. I think it was Massachusetts that had an established religion until the 1830's. The fact also remains that the 14th amendment was designed to try to give blacks equal treatment under state laws and that is all. That was the interpretation well into the 20th century. That was until liberals decided they could legislate from the bench.
so, someone can send their kid to public school and have him perform satanic rituals between classes, right?
Try to keep up, crabby.
The question was: Where does it say "Separation of church & state"?
It doesn't.
The Liberals have hijacked the amendment, and stretched it to supposedly mean something it was never intended to.
I showed it specifically for you...try to keep up indeed.
so, someone can send their kid to public school and have him perform satanic rituals between classes, right?
No. The point has always been that the Constitution does not prohibit religion in schools, only that Congress can't legislate on the matter. That is the plain language of the document. The intent (there is that tricky word again, crabs) of the Constitution was to let the states legislate in this area.
Congress (State) shall make no law respecting (separate) an establishment of religion (church)
It's a long stretch.
so, as long as the people in control of a State's legislation think it's okay, they can make the kids say "PRaise to Satan" every morning?
swell.
Here it is directly from the bill of rights
Make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
It was desgined so that there wouldn't be an official religion. It had nothing to do with federal money going to a private school.
Or prohibiting the free excercize thereof.
if Federal money goes to a private school that is a religion, it establishes a government religion.
No it doesn't.
If it were only giving it to say Catholic schools and not Jewish ones then I would agree it would be. So as long as it doesn't discriminate then it's not establishing any one religion.
if Federal money goes to a private school that is a religion
That's hogwash and that's why you can use your federal grants at a private religious college.
It was desgined so that there wouldn't be an official religion.
Such as the Church of England.
Give it up Luv, they just don't get it.
Such as the Church of England.
where the official name is actually the church of england, as by law established.
Bingo !
Notice the word "establish" If a religion is already established you can't re-establish it. It was designed so that we couldn't make ip our own state church and prohibit others. Last time I looked you can be any religion in this country and rightfully so.
so, you want to give money to the private Satan School for Toddlers?
swell
oh...and what about those people who are saying they have a human clone, they have a religion...federal monies for their school too, right?
swell
so, as long as the people in control of a State's legislation think it's okay, they can make the kids say "PRaise to Satan" every morning?
If you didn't like you could take it up with your state reps. That is how it is supposed to work.
and if the state reps say "take a flying fuck, your kids will be indoctrinated into Satanism and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it"?
mob rules?
fuck people's right to be free from someone else's religion?
and if the state reps say "take a flying fuck, your kids will be indoctrinated into Satanism and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it"?
Then a number of things might happen. You could put your kids in private school. You can vote the reps out. But if the majority want satan in the schools that would be the community standard.
Community standard is a religion?
you realize that's what has led to a great deal of the strife and war in the world, don't you?
you are advocating forcing your religion on someone else
fuck that with a big ol' fuck that.
you realize that's what has led to a great deal of the strife and war in the world, don't you?
I know that the Constitution was written with the idea that religious matters would be left to the states without federal interference.
fuck that with a big ol' fuck that.
Like I said there is a forum that would welcome you with open arms. They even use the same language. You probably already know that, though. Do YOU have another user name?
so, you want to give money to the private Satan School for Toddlers?
Sure, as long as their curriculum passes the guidlines.
oh...and what about those people who are saying they have a human clone, they have a religion...federal monies for their school too, right?
They have as much right as anyone, as long as their curriculum passes the guidlines.
Thing is, they're doing it now, today in public schools. The religion they're pawning off on children is called political correctness.
no
Of course not they don't have to go to that school. If the raelians or church of satan want's to have a school and be able to give an education so be it. I might not agree with their views but I pay now for schools that don't support them either or indoctrinate them against my beliefs. The difference you fail miserbly to see is that that way people would actually have a CHOICE where to esnd their children.
You are obviously bitter or upset about something and unable to debate reasonably so I bid you adeiu until next time.
and who decides the "curriculum"?
the church?
and you want to teach incorrectness?
wonderful
its PUBLIC SCHOOL we are talking about here.
as much mine as yours.
and who decides the "curriculum"?
The state sets requirements for ALL schools.
If, on top of that, they want to teach Satanism, more power to them.
and you want to teach incorrectness?
Yes, I do.
and who decides the "curriculum"?
Let's see, maybe the school board. How about the parents? How about the school board, teachers and parents working together?
let's see...you two want to have others teach your kids a religion and have others teach your kids to be incorrect
yep, that makes sense.
If it's incorrect to be against politically correct, then yes, I want incorrect.
its PUBLIC SCHOOL we are talking about here.
as much mine as yours.
And as much mine as yours.
You fail to forget that part.
yes...and I won't use it to teach your kid MY religion.
okay?
they teach those kids in Isalamic schools religion
sometimes the religion they teach is "death to the infidels"
okay if we teach your kids to want to kill those that don't believe what you want them to?
yes...and I won't use it to teach your kid MY religion.
Then don't. But the intent of the framers of the Constitution was that those decisions were to be left up to the state and the people.
the intent of the framers was varied...the Constitution represents a compromise. A compromise with Religious fundies who wanted to make this a Theocracy.
A compromise with Religious fundies who wanted to make this a Theocracy.
I don't think theocracy was ever an issue, monarchy yes. But the fact remains the religion was left to the states to determine for themselves without federal interference.
yes...and I won't use it to teach your kid MY religion.
Liberal morals (religion in my mind) is being taught this very moment in our public schools.
okay if we teach your kids to want to kill those that don't believe what you want them to?
Of course not, and that's exactly why my children attend private school. That's why parents should have true choice. So they don't have to send their kids to public school.
What are "liberal morals?" You mean egalitarianism, basic politeness toward, and tolerance for, those who are different -- that sort of thing? How is this a "religion?"
apparently you don't know what liberals preach, susan. It certainly isn't those things that you listed.
Well, perhaps not. What do liberals preach?
What are "liberal morals?" You mean egalitarianism, basic politeness toward, and tolerance for, those who are different -- that sort of thing? How is this a "religion?"
Like blaming the Republicans for Paul Wellstone's plane crashing.
Yes, that's very tolerant for those who are different.
Or praising the Wellstone family for uninviting the Vice President.
Yes, that's very polite.
What do liberals preach?
gay rights, teen sex, global warming, the joy of baby butchery, hatred of conservatives, to name a few.
What are "liberal morals?" [me]
So, THX, are you claiming that this is what is being taught in our public schools?
Susan M,
First of all welcome. I don't believe I've seen you post here before but glad you are and you are certainly welcome.
I don't think it's a religion and there's nothing wrong with doing so or practicing what you mentioned. I don't like to generalize but in many cases the morals of egalitarinaism and tolerance for those who are different are not displayed sometimes in debate here by some of those who claim to be. I am guilty of is as well so I can't throw stones but I think the responses you are or will see reflect that. I've seen some pretty intolerant things of conservatives AND liberals.
I can't speak for THX but perhaps what he was getting at is some of the "social" aspects that are taught in schools. For example, many people don't like having their kids told that say a gay lifestyle is acceptable. I personally have no problems with it I use it as an example. For instance if you were watching a news story and you found out that a teacher was talking about how bad abortion was or saying that gun control laws are bad I assume you or someone else would take exception to that. Someone would for sure and that I think is the problem. Social issues shouldn't be taught because of the wide array of beliefs. In public schools it should strictly be about reading writing etc. That's the purpose of schools or at least that's what it used to be before we've allowed or burdened schools with also teaching values to our children.
Anyway welcome to the little corner here.
Yes, the Liberal agenda is being taught in our public schools.
Ah, a straight answer. Thanks, jethro!
Gay rights: you mean tolerance of and basic politeness towards those who are different, I presume.
Teen sex: hmmm, somehow I doubt that our public schools are teaching teen sex. I went to public school, and at no point was I pressured by teachers to give up my virginity.
Global warming: as part of environmental awareness, perhaps. I don't have a problem with that.
The joy of baby butchery: uh-uh ... does not ring true.
Hatred of conservatives: taught in school? Highly doubtful.
But what you've said so far, plus your tagline*, makes me wonder if someone's been teaching you to hate liberals. It's beginning to sound like you've been spending too much time tuned into propaganda (aka hate) radio.
* "Feel the love. And then take responsibility for it instead of trying to butcher it on a whim you corrupt, immoral liberal".
religion: any specific system of belief, worship, conduct etc., often involving a code of ethics and philosophy.
Sounds like it applies to modern liberalism.