A professor at Columbia University in New York is publicly calling for the massacre of American troops in Iraq and praising as heroes those who kill them, reports Newsday.
In a six-hour "teach-in" at the college, Nicholas De Genova, an assistant professor of anthropology, said he would like to see "a million Mogadishus" -- a reference to the city in Somalia where 18 American soldiers were ambushed and killed in 1993.
"The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military," De Genova told the audience of about 3,000. "I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus."
The crowd was pretty much silent in response to the remark, but cheered loudly when he later said, "If we really believe that this war is criminal ... then we have to believe in the victory of the Iraqi people and the defeat of the U.S. war machine."
"A group of Ohio college students who wanted to hang U.S. flags on a school building were told they couldn't because the flags might hurt the feelings of anti-war folks, reports the Ohio News Network."
Hurt their feelings? As if there wasn't a rational reason to oppose this war: ITS AN ILLEGAL WAR OF IMPERIAL AGGRESSION.
'"I was raised to be a firm believer in my country and you know, support what's going on," she said.'
"Even if it is a stupid and blind trashing of international law. After all, I'm a blind drone of the nazi regime" she said.
"The students say they will hang flags outside of their homes instead."
As it should be. That way we'll know which of you are against the constitution that has been betrayed by our unelected president, and by our troops.
Certainly the Aggresors part is accurate. I don't know what else you'd call it. The allies are brutally pounding a nation right now. They took the war to them.
Imperialist? -- Jury's out on that.
Think England wanted an empire? Maybe it became necessary.
Certainly the Aggresors part is accurate. I don't know what else you'd call it. The allies are brutally pounding a nation right now. They took the war to them.
Nonetheless, our side is still the aggressor.
Not unless you compartmentalize the history of U.S. and Iraqi relations. This action is simply a continuation of the prior war in which Saddam invaded Kuwait. When Saddam knew he would lose that war he agreed to a peace settlement. He did not keep his agreement. The current US action is simply a continuation of the prior conflict.
With comrades, he overcame execution fears to run for his life
By Brian Murphy ASSOCIATED PRESS Â Â
KALAK, Iraq, March 31 — The soldier covered his face and wept. It was a deep, sudden sobbing he couldn’t control. His shoulders heaved. Tears wet the frayed cuffs of his green Iraqi army sweater.
HE CRIED because he was alive. He cried because his family may think he’s dead. He cried for his country. He cried because — for him — the war was over. “I’m so sorry. Excuse me. I just can’t stop,” wept the soldier who fled Saddam Hussein’s army and was taken Monday into the hands of U.S.-allied Iraqi Kurdish fighters. “Could this terrible time be over soon? Please, tell me.” The soldier — part of a front-line unit — was among at least >18 Iraqi deserters who staggered into the Kurdish town of Kalak as U.S. warplanes stepped up airstrikes on Iraqi positions near the Kurds’ autonomous region. He agreed to share his story, but with conditions: no details about him or his military service could be revealed. Call him Ali. He feared Saddam loyalists could retaliate against his family. They may have already, he said. “The army knows I ran away. They could come and take >revenge,” he said in the central police barracks in Kalak, about 20 miles northwest of the Kurdish administrative center Irbil. “My only hope is that I’m not alone. There are so many deserters and those who want to run. They cannot attack all these families with a war going on.”  Â
“We knew nothing. We were told only that America was trying to take over Iraq,” Ali said. “But we are not so stupid. We know how Saddam rules the country. We know in our hearts we’d be better off without him.” > Ali was drafted just after the 1991 Gulf War. He remained in the military because his family depended on the small military pay. Anyway, there were few choices for ex-soldiers whose formal education ended in the fourth grade. There were no jobs at home. Ali claimed he would never seek the favors of Saddam’s ruling Baath party.        >“I don’t see Saddam as a hero anymore,” Ali said.  Â
WOUNDED ‘LEFT TO DIE’ U.S. bombs killed at least five members of his unit. About the same number were wounded, he said. “There is no medical help,” he added. “They are left to die.”        Â“The spirit of the soldiers is very low,” he said. “We were not really mad at the Americans. We just want to save our lives.”  Â
He and four other soldiers decided to run. But they had to pick their moment. Their unit and most others include Baathist agents given orders to execute any deserters, he said. “But we decided it was either die from an American bomb or be killed by our own people,” he said. “It was better to run and take our chances.”  Â
Civilians 'Increasingly Willing' to Support Allies in South
CAMP AS SAYLIYAH, Qatar — British forces said they saw signs Tuesday that the tide of the war in southern Iraq may be turning in their favor: Iraqis were starting to warm to their presence in towns firmly under their control, where troops felt safe enough to replace helmets with berets.
Lights flickered on for the first time in months in the port city of Umm Qasr, and schools and shops were reopening. Significantly, more civilians were informing foreign troops about the whereabouts of paramilitary forces and members of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's Baath Party, British officials said.
"Within the southern area of Iraq, we see a large degree of normality starting to appear amongst the Iraqi population," said Group Capt. Al Lockwood, a spokesman for British forces in the Gulf.
Around Nasiriyah, where the coalition has met with stiff resistance, civilians are now helping U.S. special forces find troops loyal to Saddam, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks told reporters Tuesday at a news conference in Kuwait.
Brooks said local Iraqis are "increasingly willing" to aid the U.S. and British forces throughout the main areas of fighting.
Marines were aided by 100 tribal fighters who helped fight Iraqi forces and remove explosives from a bridge north of Nasiriyah. In the western desert, civilians helped Army troops remove explosives from a hospital and check buildings, he added.
Lockwood stressed that tensions were still high in Basra, Iraq's second-largest city where British forces have skirmished almost daily with forces loyal to Saddam while trying to provide humanitarian aid to the city's 1.3 million people.
And military operations continued in the region, including a raid on Baath party members in the town of Safwan, said another British spokesman, Col. Chris Vernon.
But Lockwood said residents were increasingly willing to approach British troops who have ringed Basra to give information about known paramilitaries and other loyalists.
"They realize that we are there to liberate them, not to occupy," he said. "Certainly, there are still military engagements happening with the paramilitary forces, but the aid is flowing into Basra now."
The defilement of Commonwealth war graves in northern France coincided with a poll for The Times which found that 54 per cent of Britons no longer regarded France as a close ally because of its opposition to the war.
Relations will be further rent by a second poll, in Le Monde, showing that only a third of the French felt that they were on the same side as the Americans and British, and that another third desired outright Iraqi victory over “les anglo-saxons”.
SICK French yobs daubed a swastika and vile anti-war slurs at a cemetery for 11,000 British troops.
The showpiece cenotaph at the graveyard in Northern France was smeared in red paint with the words: “Dig up your rubbish. It’s fouling our soil.”
Other slogans at the Etaples cemetery near Boulogne included “Death to the Yankees” and “Saddam Hussein will win and spill your blood.”
And the vandals wrote “Rosbeefs go home” — the French insult for Brits is roast-beefs. Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush were also branded war criminals.
The graffiti was discovered by a shocked gardener and spotted by around 80 visitors. It was cleaned off the same day.
Roy Hemmington — spokesman for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission — said: “We are deeply offended. This is the strongest language and most vile graffiti I have witnessed at a war graves cemetery.
“The suggestion that the bodies of soldiers who died for France should be dug up is particularly foul.”
Most soldiers buried at the cemetery were defending France at the Somme and Ypres during World War I.
Another 122 are troops who died fighting the Nazis in World War II.
Among the dead are a winner of the Victoria Cross, 217 holders of the Military Medal and 69 holders of the Military Cross.
A number had been awarded France’s top military decoration, the Legion d’Honneur.
Roy added: “Almost every British regiment has war dead here. This insults just about the entire British Army.”
Anti-British feeling has been whipped up in France since President Jacques Chirac refused to let the UN back action against Iraq.
Last night Jim Kelleher, chief clerk to the Royal Fusiliers Association, said: “No sane person would do this. It is a disgrace. I have family buried in France and if I could get my hands on whoever did this I’d bury them too.”
Jeremy Lillies, of the Royal British Legion, added: “It is distressing.”
The Sun’s Military Adviser Major-General Perkins said: “It is despicable.”
Appalled local MP Jacques Lang said: “It is an attack on the memory of the British and American soldiers who contributed to the liberation of our soil.”
Police captain Thibault Martin added: “It is sick and cowardly.”
The shocking news comes as a new poll reveals that a third of the French want SADDAM to win the war.
A massive 78 per cent of 1,000 people in the poll by French newspaper Le Monde disapproved of the Allied action.
But 16 per cent “really wish for” a Coalition victory — while 37 per cent said they would prefer one.
I saw that in the story as well Dan. I didn't post it because that action I would write off as a few idiots who have no idea what they are doing. Obviously. What did suprise me was that 1/3 of French people are pulling for Saddamn. Apparently it doesn't matter how horrid a regime it is, they just don't want us doing anything about it. They'd prefer another 25 years of murder. To me it's clear evidence that it has more to do with who's taking action vs. the action itself as I suspect it is in many countries and here as well. I think it's time to re-evaluate or even ask ourselves what does an ally constitute ? At what point are you no longer allies ? Not enemies nessicarily at all but let's face it. We're very very far apart on many issues. To those who defaced those graves I'd say they deserve the fate that befalls them. For the third who is pulling for a murderous dictator I'd say there's a good look into the logic we're dealing with. For those that can defend them or that view fire away. For those that want to write it off as more French bashing it's not. It's beyond a minor disagreement, it's about looking at who your allies really are. This is actual sentiment and many people pulling for your enemey via actions seeming to do what they can to support them.
I didn't post it because that action I would write off as a few idiots who have no idea what they are doing.
I would agree with that since "It was cleaned off the same day." I do not think that their government agrees with such statements that were painted on the site.
As for the allies part, I don't think that we need to make enemies of them, but they seem to have sold some things to the Iraqi's and made some harsh statements. It is a touchy situation to say the least. I do not claim to know the answer, but I guess that's why I am not in charge.
I can tell you that spooks loyal to the elder Bush are going to be turning Iraq upside down looking for the damning evidence of the weapons deals made by Bush sr and Reagan in the 1980's. They will be seeking to eradicate that evidence from history.
1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' We will never "interfere" again.
2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there.
3. We will station troops at our borders. No more sneaking through holes in the fence. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.
4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.
6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy-wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil-producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah, or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair-weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
I wonder what sort of a calamity you could find a third of Americans wishing on France right now.
Don't know Rick, I wish them no harm. I do know that if they were in battle with a murderous brutal dictator I wouldn't be pulling for him to win. It would be akin to rooting for Adolf in 39'. I also know If 1/3 of Americans were pulling for a guy like Saddam I'd take them to task for it instead of trying to deflect the criticism with hypotheticals.
The minister also said that coalition forces were throwing booby traps in the form of pens and pencils into Iraqi villages and townships.
"The authority of the civil defense ... issued a warning to the civilian population not to pick up any of those pencils because they are booby traps," he said, adding that the British and American forces were "immoral mercenaries" and "war criminals" for such behavior.
"I am not talking about the American people and the British people," he said. "I am talking about those mercenaries. ... They have started throwing those pencils, but they are not pencils, they are booby traps to kill the children."
Pencils? Booby trapped pencils? This guys one heck of a nutball.
Smack is one thing Rick, rooting for a piece of crap like Hussein is another. I admitted that perhaps I was being to harsh or generalizing too much, now I think maybe not. I'd expect support like that from the Syrians or Palestinains, not the French. Well I guess I should say now after what I've seen coming from there and there politics I should perhaps expect that from them from now on. Whatever reasons they have for wishing a victory for Hussein shows how far they've come. It might be a microcosm but it points to a larger change. Whatever failures we've had on our part in our relations with the French nothing can excuse that posisition IMO. The Vichy did the same when it had nothing to do with us. Now
I know you are a self confessed Franco file. I think France has made some great contributions to the world. I wish no harm to come to them. There is something going on there that has less to do with us than it does their attitudes on how they see the world or us for that matter. The issue isn't the U.S alone, in their struggle to retain prestige and clout they have alienated themselves or should I say alligned themselves with others. That's their decision. For all the talk about American hegemony or arrogance, France seems to be doing plenty of that on their own. I think they are headed down the wrong path frankly.
That being said, IMO it's gone beyond being defiant or flippant. It's gone way beyond that. When someone calls someone a friend or ally there's a responsiblity or qualifier that must accompany that classifiaction. I think it's time to seriously consider to whom we apply that moniker, saying you are allies is great, there also has to be reciprocal behavior. If France today needed our aid I would have serious considerations about it. It's not about one upsmanship either, when you've been burned enough times and your supposed friend has shown their true charachter you have to reconsider that friendship or the continuation of it.
Oh that's nothing. You should see the nuclear crayolas we have ! And don't forget the highlighters rigged with nerve gas. The pink ones are especially dangerous.
BTW are we dropping pencils over Iraq ?
I can see the headline. "Coalition forces fly endless B-52 sorties today, over 10,000 pounds of pencils were dropped" Kofi Anan was outraged that they were not #2. He was quoted as saying " The Ameicans did that on purpose everyone knows you can't take a test without a #2, Do they know what that will do to their SRA tests ?this is an outrage".
"There is something going on there that has less to do with us than it does their attitudes on how they see the world or us for that matter."
What I think what is "going on" is Bush. They don't like American-style conservatism much either. Maybe the moral certainty reminds them of their colonial days. All this talk about leadership and destiny.
And they know what y'all say about them.
But I also don't think you'll see much change until Chirac is out of office. Then it will be different. I don't know what his game plan is, except what I read in the paper. I wish he took all of this more seriously.
What I think is "going on" is Bush. They don't like American-style conservatism much either. Maybe the moral certainty reminds them of their colonial days. All this talk about leadership and destiny.
So they don't like Bush so they root for a slimebag like Hussein. Can't argue with logic like that. Ahh liberalism, ya gotta love it. I don't like your politics so I'd rather see Hussein win. Damn good thing they liked FDR in 44' I guess, they might have backed Adolf. Oops wait, some did. I've said all along that many of those protesting there or at home are doing so more out of whom is doing it than the action itself. So instead of adressing the issue or taking a close look at the thug we're trying to remove we're mad because we don't like the politics of the person. Great logic.
33% is not a small extremist minority Rick. Deflect or defend it all you wish, it's too easy to simply blame Bush. Well perhaps it's not anymore, heck he probably started this whole SARS thing too, the bastasrd. SARS, booby trapped pencils an all that fricken humanitarin aid too, I hate him.
You don't think that attitude is here is gool 'ol loving US of A?
I realize you see that as a bad thing. I mean it's o.k if the French have national pride but heaven forbid if we do.
Could be but if you were a goalie you'd have a shut out going. Another delfection.
I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the poll, the fact that 33% in the poll are pulling for a piece of bile like Sadddamn Fricken Hussein Rick. It's got ZIP to do with typical knee jerk reactions nor does it have anything to do with some poor lovin the US of A sap whom you seem to look down on. It's about questioning having an ally who's blocked at every turn, who's refused to help before who has a growing number who want to see someone like that win.
A third of the population harboring some kind of wish of calamity? That's what I was talking about and yeah, I think that's a bad thing for either side. I hope it's not the case on the US side, but I don't know.
The well is poisoned. Now you can try to clean the well, or trade recriminations.
The well is poisoned. Now you can try to clean the well, or trade recriminations.
I'm not the one who dirtied it. There's nothing that could justify wishing for Saddamn to win. It's got nothing to do with nationalism or who's the leader of a country. Somethings are just plain wrong.
Great job by the Special Forces and all those involved in getting Lynch back! GOD BLESS THEM! May they have similar luck in getting all the other POW's back.
At this point in time, I don't think I would either.
Maybe I'm just being angry, I don't know. If there was another Hitler in Europe, I'm sure I'd be for sending troops over there, even though they don't deserve our help.
That is sad, and shallow.
Sad? Yes. Shallow? Hardly.
JUST as shallow as the French.
No, see, the French are the ones that have jeopardized our long standing and mutually beneficial relationship, by choosing sides with the likes of Saddam.
It would be one thing if we were truly being imperialistic and invading a peace loving nation. Anyone that is honest with themselves knows that isn't the case in Iraq.
Personally, I would hope that we all would be willing to stand-up for any free Nation, against an attack from any tyranny.
You're right. It's just too bad the French don't see it that way.
I think it was America that would NOT get involved when Britain was struggling to remain free of Nazi Bombs,(And the French were invaded and forced to surrender) and Nazi enslavement, for more than 2 years in fact. We watched from the sidelines while they got all hell bombed out of them, in fact.
You're right, we did stand on the sidelines. You have to remember though, that we were not the America then, that we are today.
Now, we are the closest of allies.
Not now, not with the French.
It pays to stand by your friends and have patience, even when they are wrong.
A graduate student told the Columbia Spectator that Nicholas De Genova and his wife were "fearing for their lives" after receiving some 1,000 threatening phone and e-mail messages. The threats led De Genova to nix his two classes on Tuesday, according to the student newspaper.
De Genova told a campus "teach-in" last Wednesday that he wanted to see the U.S. defeated in Iraq and suffer "a million Mogadishus" — a reference to the 1993 Somalia ambush that left 18 Americans dead.
University President Lee C. Bollinger released a statement distancing himself and the school from De Genova, who was apparently a last-minute add-on to the teach-in lineup.
"I am shocked that someone would make such statements. Because of the university’s tradition of academic freedom, I normally don’t comment about statements made by faculty members. However, this one crosses the line and I really feel the need to say something. I am especially saddened for the families of those whose lives are at risk," Bollinger said in his Friday statement.
Well, at least the President didn't back up this jackass.
German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said Wednesday he hoped Saddam Hussein's government would collapse quickly, marking a stark turnaround from Germany's previous opposition to regime change as a goal of the U.S.-led war.
Singling out Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and the leaders of Saudi Arabia, he said, "We want you nervous. We want you to realize now, for the fourth time in a hundred years, this country and its allies are on the march and that we are on the side of those whom you -- the Mubaraks, the Saudi Royal family -- most fear: We're on the side of your own people."
Mohammed walked out of Nasiriyah along a treacherous road known as "ambush alley" and, hands raised, approached a U.S. Marine.
The Marine asked curtly: "What do you want?" Mohammed offered "important information about woman soldier in hospital."
In the days that followed, Mohammed made several more risky trips to the hospital, which was full of Iraqi security guards, at the request of U.S. officers. He gathered information on the number of troops and made hand-drawn maps of the building's layout and location.
His wife, Iman, filled in other crucial details, including the fact a helicopter could land on the roof, according to USA Today.
Give that man a medal! And anything else he wants.
I don't know the details but on the surface this ticks me off.
We sent him and his family to a refugee camp!
From the story:
Mohammed, talked to the newspapers after he, his wife and daughter were taken to a U.S. military camp in the Iraqi desert. They were to be flown later to a refugee center in Umm Qasr, Iraq's deepwater Persian Gulf port. He withheld his last name to protect his family.
A professor at Columbia University in New York is publicly calling for the massacre of American troops in Iraq and praising as heroes those who kill them, reports Newsday.
In a six-hour "teach-in" at the college, Nicholas De Genova, an assistant professor of anthropology, said he would like to see "a million Mogadishus" -- a reference to the city in Somalia where 18 American soldiers were ambushed and killed in 1993.
"The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military," De Genova told the audience of about 3,000. "I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus."
The crowd was pretty much silent in response to the remark, but cheered loudly when he later said, "If we really believe that this war is criminal ... then we have to believe in the victory of the Iraqi people and the defeat of the U.S. war machine."
"A group of Ohio college students who wanted to hang U.S. flags on a school building were told they couldn't because the flags might hurt the feelings of anti-war folks, reports the Ohio News Network."
Hurt their feelings? As if there wasn't a rational reason to oppose this war: ITS AN ILLEGAL WAR OF IMPERIAL AGGRESSION.
'"I was raised to be a firm believer in my country and you know, support what's going on," she said.'
"Even if it is a stupid and blind trashing of international law. After all, I'm a blind drone of the nazi regime" she said.
"The students say they will hang flags outside of their homes instead."
As it should be. That way we'll know which of you are against the constitution that has been betrayed by our unelected president, and by our troops.
So its OK to be an imperialist aggressor, then?
Imperialist Aggressors
LOL
You crack me up.
Certainly the Aggresors part is accurate. I don't know what else you'd call it. The allies are brutally pounding a nation right now. They took the war to them.
Imperialist? -- Jury's out on that.
Think England wanted an empire? Maybe it became necessary.
Truth is, Saddam should have been taken out last time.
The UN wouldn't allow it.
We gave the UN a decade, they failed.
"Truth is, Saddam should have been taken out last time."
That's Monday morning quarterbacking. There's no way of knowing how it would have turned out. It could have been a disaster.
Nonetheless, our side is still the aggressor.
Certainly the Aggresors part is accurate. I don't know what else you'd call it. The allies are brutally pounding a nation right now. They took the war to them.
Nonetheless, our side is still the aggressor.
Not unless you compartmentalize the history of U.S. and Iraqi relations. This action is simply a continuation of the prior war in which Saddam invaded Kuwait. When Saddam knew he would lose that war he agreed to a peace settlement. He did not keep his agreement. The current US action is simply a continuation of the prior conflict.
Iraqi deserter tells of desperate days
http://msnbc.com/news/893391.asp
Civilians 'Increasingly Willing' to Support Allies in South
You apparently have never read the constitution.
Sorry that was for the village idiot, Taraka Das.
"The only land we have ever sought, is enough to bury the soldiers we left behind".
Excellent quote! I think I found my new tagline.
Nice.
One in three French wants Saddam to win
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-631671,00.html
The Times which found that 54 per cent of Britons no longer regarded France as a close ally because of its opposition to the war.
Come on now, Luv. Haven't you been listening to the news? Everyone in Briton is against the war.
</sarcasm>
I do not know if this is real or a photoshop picture being reported as real.
French smear Brit dead
By SIMON HUGHES
SICK French yobs daubed a swastika and vile anti-war slurs at a cemetery for 11,000 British troops.
The showpiece cenotaph at the graveyard in Northern France was smeared in red paint with the words: “Dig up your rubbish. It’s fouling our soil.”
Other slogans at the Etaples cemetery near Boulogne included “Death to the Yankees” and “Saddam Hussein will win and spill your blood.”
And the vandals wrote “Rosbeefs go home” — the French insult for Brits is roast-beefs. Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush were also branded war criminals.
The graffiti was discovered by a shocked gardener and spotted by around 80 visitors. It was cleaned off the same day.
Roy Hemmington — spokesman for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission — said: “We are deeply offended. This is the strongest language and most vile graffiti I have witnessed at a war graves cemetery.
“The suggestion that the bodies of soldiers who died for France should be dug up is particularly foul.”
Most soldiers buried at the cemetery were defending France at the Somme and Ypres during World War I.
Another 122 are troops who died fighting the Nazis in World War II.
Among the dead are a winner of the Victoria Cross, 217 holders of the Military Medal and 69 holders of the Military Cross.
A number had been awarded France’s top military decoration, the Legion d’Honneur.
Roy added: “Almost every British regiment has war dead here. This insults just about the entire British Army.”
Anti-British feeling has been whipped up in France since President Jacques Chirac refused to let the UN back action against Iraq.
Last night Jim Kelleher, chief clerk to the Royal Fusiliers Association, said: “No sane person would do this. It is a disgrace. I have family buried in France and if I could get my hands on whoever did this I’d bury them too.”
Jeremy Lillies, of the Royal British Legion, added: “It is distressing.”
The Sun’s Military Adviser Major-General Perkins said: “It is despicable.”
Appalled local MP Jacques Lang said: “It is an attack on the memory of the British and American soldiers who contributed to the liberation of our soil.”
Police captain Thibault Martin added: “It is sick and cowardly.”
The shocking news comes as a new poll reveals that a third of the French want SADDAM to win the war.
A massive 78 per cent of 1,000 people in the poll by French newspaper Le Monde disapproved of the Allied action.
But 16 per cent “really wish for” a Coalition victory — while 37 per cent said they would prefer one.
I saw that in the story as well Dan. I didn't post it because that action I would write off as a few idiots who have no idea what they are doing. Obviously. What did suprise me was that 1/3 of French people are pulling for Saddamn. Apparently it doesn't matter how horrid a regime it is, they just don't want us doing anything about it. They'd prefer another 25 years of murder. To me it's clear evidence that it has more to do with who's taking action vs. the action itself as I suspect it is in many countries and here as well. I think it's time to re-evaluate or even ask ourselves what does an ally constitute ? At what point are you no longer allies ? Not enemies nessicarily at all but let's face it. We're very very far apart on many issues. To those who defaced those graves I'd say they deserve the fate that befalls them. For the third who is pulling for a murderous dictator I'd say there's a good look into the logic we're dealing with. For those that can defend them or that view fire away. For those that want to write it off as more French bashing it's not. It's beyond a minor disagreement, it's about looking at who your allies really are. This is actual sentiment and many people pulling for your enemey via actions seeming to do what they can to support them.
I didn't post it because that action I would write off as a few idiots who have no idea what they are doing.
I would agree with that since "It was cleaned off the same day." I do not think that their government agrees with such statements that were painted on the site.
As for the allies part, I don't think that we need to make enemies of them, but they seem to have sold some things to the Iraqi's and made some harsh statements. It is a touchy situation to say the least. I do not claim to know the answer, but I guess that's why I am not in charge.
I can tell you that spooks loyal to the elder Bush are going to be turning Iraq upside down looking for the damning evidence of the weapons deals made by Bush sr and Reagan in the 1980's. They will be seeking to eradicate that evidence from history.
What did suprise me was that 1/3 of French people are pulling for Saddamn.
What the hell happened between us and France for it to come to this?
Where they'd rather and evil bastard like Saddam be victorious.
Do they not think this through all the way?
If Saddam stays in power, what happens after he's gone?
His sons are even more insane than he is.
Even if you don't agree with how we've gotten to this point, how can you hope for Saddam to win.
I'm just dumbfounded.
Bill,
Perhaps we could live in England and commute across the channel, you know, just like we did on June 6th 44' when we freed their country.
THX 1138 4/2/03 5:48am
It's amazing isn't it. Perhaps they're pissed off that Armstrong keeps winning the tour. I don't know what it is but they have issues.
The fact that they would rather see a brutal bastard stay in power is sick.
1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their
affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' We will never "interfere" again.
2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with
Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there.
3. We will station troops at our borders. No more sneaking through holes in the fence. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.
4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.
6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy-wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil-producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah, or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair-weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
I wonder what sort of a calamity you could find a third of Americans wishing on France right now.
Bet it's measurably worse than losing the Tour de France.
Rick 4/2/03 9:12am
Don't know Rick, I wish them no harm. I do know that if they were in battle with a murderous brutal dictator I wouldn't be pulling for him to win. It would be akin to rooting for Adolf in 39'. I also know If 1/3 of Americans were pulling for a guy like Saddam I'd take them to task for it instead of trying to deflect the criticism with hypotheticals.
See point #3 above.
I know, too that poll like that is snapshot in time. I fail to see what good the smack that comes from both countries is doing.
I wish nothing upon the French.
However, should they need our help sometime, I'd probably be against it.
What the fu....
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/02/sprj.irq.sahaf/index.html
The minister also said that coalition forces were throwing booby traps in the form of pens and pencils into Iraqi villages and townships.
"The authority of the civil defense ... issued a warning to the civilian population not to pick up any of those pencils because they are booby traps," he said, adding that the British and American forces were "immoral mercenaries" and "war criminals" for such behavior.
"I am not talking about the American people and the British people," he said. "I am talking about those mercenaries. ... They have started throwing those pencils, but they are not pencils, they are booby traps to kill the children."
Pencils? Booby trapped pencils? This guys one heck of a nutball.
Smack is one thing Rick, rooting for a piece of crap like Hussein is another. I admitted that perhaps I was being to harsh or generalizing too much, now I think maybe not. I'd expect support like that from the Syrians or Palestinains, not the French. Well I guess I should say now after what I've seen coming from there and there politics I should perhaps expect that from them from now on. Whatever reasons they have for wishing a victory for Hussein shows how far they've come. It might be a microcosm but it points to a larger change. Whatever failures we've had on our part in our relations with the French nothing can excuse that posisition IMO. The Vichy did the same when it had nothing to do with us. Now
I know you are a self confessed Franco file. I think France has made some great contributions to the world. I wish no harm to come to them. There is something going on there that has less to do with us than it does their attitudes on how they see the world or us for that matter. The issue isn't the U.S alone, in their struggle to retain prestige and clout they have alienated themselves or should I say alligned themselves with others. That's their decision. For all the talk about American hegemony or arrogance, France seems to be doing plenty of that on their own. I think they are headed down the wrong path frankly.
That being said, IMO it's gone beyond being defiant or flippant. It's gone way beyond that. When someone calls someone a friend or ally there's a responsiblity or qualifier that must accompany that classifiaction. I think it's time to seriously consider to whom we apply that moniker, saying you are allies is great, there also has to be reciprocal behavior. If France today needed our aid I would have serious considerations about it. It's not about one upsmanship either, when you've been burned enough times and your supposed friend has shown their true charachter you have to reconsider that friendship or the continuation of it.
THX 1138 4/2/03 10:53am
Oh that's nothing. You should see the nuclear crayolas we have ! And don't forget the highlighters rigged with nerve gas. The pink ones are especially dangerous.
BTW are we dropping pencils over Iraq ?
I can see the headline. "Coalition forces fly endless B-52 sorties today, over 10,000 pounds of pencils were dropped" Kofi Anan was outraged that they were not #2. He was quoted as saying " The Ameicans did that on purpose everyone knows you can't take a test without a #2, Do they know what that will do to their SRA tests ?this is an outrage".
"There is something going on there that has less to do with us than it does their attitudes on how they see the world or us for that matter."
What I think what is "going on" is Bush. They don't like American-style conservatism much either. Maybe the moral certainty reminds them of their colonial days. All this talk about leadership and destiny.
And they know what y'all say about them.
But I also don't think you'll see much change until Chirac is out of office. Then it will be different. I don't know what his game plan is, except what I read in the paper. I wish he took all of this more seriously.
So they don't like Bush so they root for a slimebag like Hussein. Can't argue with logic like that. Ahh liberalism, ya gotta love it. I don't like your politics so I'd rather see Hussein win. Damn good thing they liked FDR in 44' I guess, they might have backed Adolf. Oops wait, some did. I've said all along that many of those protesting there or at home are doing so more out of whom is doing it than the action itself. So instead of adressing the issue or taking a close look at the thug we're trying to remove we're mad because we don't like the politics of the person. Great logic.
33% is not a small extremist minority Rick. Deflect or defend it all you wish, it's too easy to simply blame Bush. Well perhaps it's not anymore, heck he probably started this whole SARS thing too, the bastasrd. SARS, booby trapped pencils an all that fricken humanitarin aid too, I hate him.
"Deflect or defend it all you wish..."
I'm doing neither.
"Deflect or defend it all you wish..."
O.K your not.
You don't think that attitude is here in the good 'ol loving US of A?
That poll in Le Monde could have been online for all any of us know about it. That would make it pretty unscientific.
Rick 4/2/03 11:52am
I realize you see that as a bad thing. I mean it's o.k if the French have national pride but heaven forbid if we do.
Could be but if you were a goalie you'd have a shut out going. Another delfection.
I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the poll, the fact that 33% in the poll are pulling for a piece of bile like Sadddamn Fricken Hussein Rick. It's got ZIP to do with typical knee jerk reactions nor does it have anything to do with some poor lovin the US of A sap whom you seem to look down on. It's about questioning having an ally who's blocked at every turn, who's refused to help before who has a growing number who want to see someone like that win.
"I realize you see that as a bad thing"
A third of the population harboring some kind of wish of calamity? That's what I was talking about and yeah, I think that's a bad thing for either side. I hope it's not the case on the US side, but I don't know.
The well is poisoned. Now you can try to clean the well, or trade recriminations.
joe
I'm not the one who dirtied it. There's nothing that could justify wishing for Saddamn to win. It's got nothing to do with nationalism or who's the leader of a country. Somethings are just plain wrong.
How many other Vets do you think we could find that would also stand-up for such a priviledge???
Count me in!
Great job by the Special Forces and all those involved in getting Lynch back! GOD BLESS THEM! May they have similar luck in getting all the other POW's back.
THX...yes, you would support the French if they were attacked, because you are an American.
No, I personally would not.
THX 1138 4/2/03 6:28pm
At this point in time, I don't think I would either.
At this point in time, I don't think I would either.
Maybe I'm just being angry, I don't know. If there was another Hitler in Europe, I'm sure I'd be for sending troops over there, even though they don't deserve our help.
That is sad, and shallow.
Sad? Yes. Shallow? Hardly.
JUST as shallow as the French.
No, see, the French are the ones that have jeopardized our long standing and mutually beneficial relationship, by choosing sides with the likes of Saddam.
It would be one thing if we were truly being imperialistic and invading a peace loving nation. Anyone that is honest with themselves knows that isn't the case in Iraq.
Personally, I would hope that we all would be willing to stand-up for any free Nation, against an attack from any tyranny.
You're right. It's just too bad the French don't see it that way.
I think it was America that would NOT get involved when Britain was struggling to remain free of Nazi Bombs,(And the French were invaded and forced to surrender) and Nazi enslavement, for more than 2 years in fact. We watched from the sidelines while they got all hell bombed out of them, in fact.
You're right, we did stand on the sidelines. You have to remember though, that we were not the America then, that we are today.
Now, we are the closest of allies.
Not now, not with the French.
It pays to stand by your friends and have patience, even when they are wrong.
Tell that to the French.
A graduate student told the Columbia Spectator that Nicholas De Genova and his wife were "fearing for their lives" after receiving some 1,000 threatening phone and e-mail messages. The threats led De Genova to nix his two classes on Tuesday, according to the student newspaper.
De Genova told a campus "teach-in" last Wednesday that he wanted to see the U.S. defeated in Iraq and suffer "a million Mogadishus" — a reference to the 1993 Somalia ambush that left 18 Americans dead.
Run, De Genova run!
You chickenshit bastard.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83002,00.html
University President Lee C. Bollinger released a statement distancing himself and the school from De Genova, who was apparently a last-minute add-on to the teach-in lineup.
"I am shocked that someone would make such statements. Because of the university’s tradition of academic freedom, I normally don’t comment about statements made by faculty members. However, this one crosses the line and I really feel the need to say something. I am especially saddened for the families of those whose lives are at risk," Bollinger said in his Friday statement.
Well, at least the President didn't back up this jackass.
Now the Germans are starting to posture.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83009,00.html
German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said Wednesday he hoped Saddam Hussein's government would collapse quickly, marking a stark turnaround from Germany's previous opposition to regime change as a goal of the U.S.-led war.
Ex-CIA director: U.S. faces 'World War IV'
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/03/sprj.irq.woolsey.world.war/index.html
Singling out Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and the leaders of Saudi Arabia, he said, "We want you nervous. We want you to realize now, for the fourth time in a hundred years, this country and its allies are on the march and that we are on the side of those whom you -- the Mubaraks, the Saudi Royal family -- most fear: We're on the side of your own people."
Iraqi Risked Life Leading Marines to Rescued POW
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83165,00.html
Mohammed walked out of Nasiriyah along a treacherous road known as "ambush alley" and, hands raised, approached a U.S. Marine.
The Marine asked curtly: "What do you want?" Mohammed offered "important information about woman soldier in hospital."
In the days that followed, Mohammed made several more risky trips to the hospital, which was full of Iraqi security guards, at the request of U.S. officers. He gathered information on the number of troops and made hand-drawn maps of the building's layout and location.
His wife, Iman, filled in other crucial details, including the fact a helicopter could land on the roof, according to USA Today.
Give that man a medal! And anything else he wants.
Give that man a medal! And anything else he wants.
I don't know the details but on the surface this ticks me off.
We sent him and his family to a refugee camp!
From the story:
Mohammed, talked to the newspapers after he, his wife and daughter were taken to a U.S. military camp in the Iraqi desert. They were to be flown later to a refugee center in Umm Qasr, Iraq's deepwater Persian Gulf port. He withheld his last name to protect his family.