Besides, you have to actually know how to use a gun for it to be useful.
and i'm convinced that there's more to this than just knowing how to pull the trigger. there's also the degree of psychological "know how" to be able to actually follow through if you end up having to pull that gun, because if you can't that gun's equally as unuseful as if you didn't know how to use it at all.
I know quite a few gun safety instructors and they are saying to expect big changes next year. It sounds like firearms safety, a handgun course, and a course that will explain the legalities of shooting someone will be the requirements to get one (assuming you are not a felon). That is about all I know at this point. My son just finished his certificate last week and most of the instructors are in boy scouts with me.
To me, this legislation represents nothing but failure. It's capitulation to vengance and fear. When the rest of the world thinks of the United States, they think of attitudes like the ones expressed through legislation like this.
I know proponents don't care how the world views the US. They can rejoice if they want.
I feel guilty for not at least writing a couple letters to give my opinion. Now, it appears what's done is done.
I think this WILL make for more crime, more death and more destruction, just for that fact that many more guns will be out there, MANY OF THEM in the hands of nit-wits, and readily available for our state's collection of criminals/crooks to get their hands on.
It's capitulation to vengance and fear. It is legislation for freedom and self defense.When the rest of the world thinks of the United States, they think of attitudes like the ones expressed through legislation like this. Screw those that think they are better than the U.S. because they are not.
So swagger into saloon, Digger and kick the dust off you boots.
Order a shot of the good stuff. Flip a heavy coin on to the bar and tell the man to leave the bottle. Glance this way and that, looking for evil varmints.
Us whiners know there's a new sheriff in town We were lasooed and hogtied in the last election. We'll stay out your way.
I think this WILL make for more crime, more death and more destruction, just for that fact that many more guns will be out there, MANY OF THEM in the hands of nit-wits, and readily available for our state's collection of criminals/crooks to get their hands on.
You "think" wrong.
:: attempts to muffle his own laughter at the irony of that exchange ::
Keep saying that to yourself. Just like Dorothy repeating to herself "there's no place like home" over and over, maybe you will wake up one day, too, and realize you have been living a dream...or nightmare.
Right Rick, it will be dodge city all over again. Don't let any facts cloud your judgement.
You claimed that these laws give into fear. Well after reading the last few posts of yours and all the hyperbole going with it, you've apparently given in to your fears as well.
The experience of the 35 or so states that do have similar lwas haven't had the wild west scenario's opponents like to bandi about. It just hasn't happened and this is hardly a new phenomenon. There's alot of good evidence to support that and with 3/4 of the other states doing so they would have rescinded them if it turned out to be the shootout at the o.k corral you and others envision, it hasn't happened.
This law is really simply an extension of a law already existing. The difference now is that there is an actual set process and rules vs. being at the whim of a sherrif to decide wether you're in danger or not. If you knew the Sherrif or had a buddy that did, no problem. If you were a woman working 2nd shift in a bad neighborhood you were ususally out of luck. Now they get to choose. There are 12,000 C&C permits now. Ever seen a liscenced C&C holder shootin out the chandellier at the saloon ? Have one of them brandished it becasue you cut them off on I-94 ? The ones who go through that process probably haven't and stats show that to be the case. The thing is that there are people whereever you go that have C&C permits but you've never known. Well of course for the 10 gallon hat and the spurs that is. They're there and you never even noticed it yet now with more actual standardized regulation to it, suddenly it's going to be mayhem.
Most of the bad guys aren't going to go through classes or the application process they already have guns. They might just be a bit more apprehensive not knowing who does and who doesn't have one. Personally I might apply but I won't be carrying mine around even if I did. To me having a cell phone is enough of a pain in the ass.
I just heard on the radio (can't supply a link) that there were something like 13,000 applications in years past. If it's true, it seems to me the people that have been pushing this legislation made approval sound a helluva lot more whimiscal and arbitrary than it really is.
It seems like almost anyone who wanted a permit got one.
Maybe I overreact. I just never saw this kind of stuff in Minnesota before.
That was applications not approvals. The number I heard for actual permit holders is only 12,000 current permit holders. So if 13,000 applied last year alone I would say it's very arbitrary. Many people didn't apply that wanted one because it was very common to not get one based on the decision of the local sherriff. It was very arbitrary. From what I understand most of them that were denied were in the metro areas where one is probably more apt to want one. Rural areas were easier to get them in. Also if you came from another state that had C&C you could and many were turned down.
there are 12,000 current C&C permits in the state. Many have had them for years. There were 13,000 NEW applications last year alone. Of that number I don't know what the approval numbers were but the 12,000 is made up of all the people that have gotten them over the years and have had them for years. I'll see if I can find some more info on it but 12,000 over all the years of those applied were approved. 13,000 applied just last year alone. So that right there tells me the success rate wasn't very good.
I'll see if I can find some nuetral info on it. My main point is that this makes an actual standard as to who can and can't have one vs. A Sherrif saiyng yes or no depending on what kind of day he's had. The current criteria. This actually strenghtens the training requirements as well. In the 35 states that have it, none have seen a signifigant increase in crime. In fact most have seen a drop. Like I said it's been in many states for alot of years in which to judge it by. If it were turning quaint fishing villages into the O.K corral they'd have repealed them and the anti crowd would have an easy time getting it defeated.
Order a shot of the good stuff. Flip a heavy coin on to the bar and tell the man to leave the bottle. Glance this way and that, looking for evil varmints.
Number 1 in the new law you can not have a blood alcohol level of .04 and carry, unlike the current law where you can drink all you want. Number 2 you still have to have a good reason to be issued a permit so not just any one can get one. and number 3 I don't drink, I would lose control and start shooting fools like you Rick.
"I don't drink, I would lose control and start shooting fools like you Rick. "
Now that I know you're that tightly wound I'll address you accordingly. But before I do, I'll tell you, you're not coming off as an effective spokesman for Conceal/Carry. You're not convincing me.
Nothing convinces Jethro either. To do so would require a loosening of the Jethro dogma.
Rick is usually quite serious. jethro may or not be. Sometimes jethro just likes to piss people off. It is especially fun with people that don't like jethro to begin with. You appear to be one of those people TMK.
Rick, I'm not trying to compare you to Jethro. Jethro is a being all his own.
Jethro, I haven't said that I hate you. I haven't told you to eat crap or die or anything like that. How do you know I'm not just trying to piss you off, or just being funny?
Jethro is a being all his own. Yes indeed. It is hard to confuse jethro with anyone else.
Jethro, I haven't said that I hate you. I didn't use the word hate. I used the word dislike.I haven't told you to eat crap or die or anything like that. Maybe not yet!How do you know I'm not just trying to piss you off, or just being funny? Funny is okay. Go ahead piss jethro off. He likes that. Why? I think it is because jethro enjoys conflict something a lot of people don't.
What is enjoyable about anything? You usually just know when it is and when it isn't. Conflict can get the blood pumping and when you are in it you feel alive.
Now that I know you're that tightly wound I'll address you accordingly. But before I do, I'll tell you, you're not coming off as an effective spokesman for Conceal/Carry. You're not convincing me.
I'm not wound tight I just have a vary dark sense of humor. and I do not drink because alcoholism runs in my family and I am a mean drunk.
I think it's great!
They've got a good 2nd Amendment case if you ask me.
http://www.cato.org/new/02-03/02-10-03r.html
http://www.cato.org/pubs/legalbriefs/gunsuit.pdf
Maybe if I have a gun, I will finally be safe from Sadam Husain, Osama Bin Laden, the boogy man, and the Queen of England.
You just want to hunt the Easter Bunny and Santa's reindeer.
Maybe if I have a gun, I will finally be safe from Sadam Husain, Osama Bin Laden, the boogy man, and the Queen of England.
I doubt it. The Queen would kick your ass, even if you had a gun.
:-)
Besides, you have to actually know how to use a gun for it to be useful.
Besides, you have to actually know how to use a gun for it to be useful.
and i'm convinced that there's more to this than just knowing how to pull the trigger. there's also the degree of psychological "know how" to be able to actually follow through if you end up having to pull that gun, because if you can't that gun's equally as unuseful as if you didn't know how to use it at all.
Anyone keeping up on the current Concealed Carry legislation in MN?
Ya! Everyone but Rick gets a permit.
I know quite a few gun safety instructors and they are saying to expect big changes next year. It sounds like firearms safety, a handgun course, and a course that will explain the legalities of shooting someone will be the requirements to get one (assuming you are not a felon). That is about all I know at this point. My son just finished his certificate last week and most of the instructors are in boy scouts with me.
That's cool with me. I should actually take a course anyway. I haven't had one since I was a kid.
What's happening to my state?
To me, this legislation represents nothing but failure. It's capitulation to vengance and fear. When the rest of the world thinks of the United States, they think of attitudes like the ones expressed through legislation like this.
I know proponents don't care how the world views the US. They can rejoice if they want.
I feel guilty for not at least writing a couple letters to give my opinion. Now, it appears what's done is done.
Time to sign up for concealed carry class.
What for?
You don't need no stinkin' claases, JT.
Rent some action and western movies.
I think this WILL make for more crime, more death and more destruction, just for that fact that many more guns will be out there, MANY OF THEM in the hands of nit-wits, and readily available for our state's collection of criminals/crooks to get their hands on.
You "think" wrong.
It's capitulation to vengance and fear. It is legislation for freedom and self defense.When the rest of the world thinks of the United States, they think of attitudes like the ones expressed through legislation like this. Screw those that think they are better than the U.S. because they are not.
So swagger into saloon, Digger and kick the dust off you boots.
Order a shot of the good stuff. Flip a heavy coin on to the bar and tell the man to leave the bottle. Glance this way and that, looking for evil varmints.
Us whiners know there's a new sheriff in town We were lasooed and hogtied in the last election. We'll stay out your way.
You don't need no stinkin' claases, JT.
You're right, I don't. However the law will require I take one.
I think this WILL make for more crime, more death and more destruction, just for that fact that many more guns will be out there, MANY OF THEM in the hands of nit-wits, and readily available for our state's collection of criminals/crooks to get their hands on.
You "think" wrong.
:: attempts to muffle his own laughter at the irony of that exchange ::
You "think" wrong, too, ares.
at least i'm capable of thinking.
at least i'm capable of thinking.
Keep saying that to yourself. Just like Dorothy repeating to herself "there's no place like home" over and over, maybe you will wake up one day, too, and realize you have been living a dream...or nightmare.
Right Rick, it will be dodge city all over again. Don't let any facts cloud your judgement.
You claimed that these laws give into fear. Well after reading the last few posts of yours and all the hyperbole going with it, you've apparently given in to your fears as well.
The experience of the 35 or so states that do have similar lwas haven't had the wild west scenario's opponents like to bandi about. It just hasn't happened and this is hardly a new phenomenon. There's alot of good evidence to support that and with 3/4 of the other states doing so they would have rescinded them if it turned out to be the shootout at the o.k corral you and others envision, it hasn't happened.
This law is really simply an extension of a law already existing. The difference now is that there is an actual set process and rules vs. being at the whim of a sherrif to decide wether you're in danger or not. If you knew the Sherrif or had a buddy that did, no problem. If you were a woman working 2nd shift in a bad neighborhood you were ususally out of luck. Now they get to choose. There are 12,000 C&C permits now. Ever seen a liscenced C&C holder shootin out the chandellier at the saloon ? Have one of them brandished it becasue you cut them off on I-94 ? The ones who go through that process probably haven't and stats show that to be the case. The thing is that there are people whereever you go that have C&C permits but you've never known. Well of course for the 10 gallon hat and the spurs that is. They're there and you never even noticed it yet now with more actual standardized regulation to it, suddenly it's going to be mayhem.
Most of the bad guys aren't going to go through classes or the application process they already have guns. They might just be a bit more apprehensive not knowing who does and who doesn't have one. Personally I might apply but I won't be carrying mine around even if I did. To me having a cell phone is enough of a pain in the ass.
"There are 12,000 C&C permits now. "
I just heard on the radio (can't supply a link) that there were something like 13,000 applications in years past. If it's true, it seems to me the people that have been pushing this legislation made approval sound a helluva lot more whimiscal and arbitrary than it really is.
It seems like almost anyone who wanted a permit got one.
Maybe I overreact. I just never saw this kind of stuff in Minnesota before.
Rick,
That was applications not approvals. The number I heard for actual permit holders is only 12,000 current permit holders. So if 13,000 applied last year alone I would say it's very arbitrary. Many people didn't apply that wanted one because it was very common to not get one based on the decision of the local sherriff. It was very arbitrary. From what I understand most of them that were denied were in the metro areas where one is probably more apt to want one. Rural areas were easier to get them in. Also if you came from another state that had C&C you could and many were turned down.
"So if 13,000 applied last year alone I would say it's very arbitrary"
I don't know if it's yearly.
"Many people didn't apply that wanted one because it was very common to not get one based on the decision of the local sherriff. "
So they didn't apply and then they said 'they'll just turn me down?"
And I was called a whiner today.
I need to get this straight. If they have only turned down 1,000 that's more than 90 who got it.
Rick,
Let me explain it better than I did.
there are 12,000 current C&C permits in the state. Many have had them for years. There were 13,000 NEW applications last year alone. Of that number I don't know what the approval numbers were but the 12,000 is made up of all the people that have gotten them over the years and have had them for years. I'll see if I can find some more info on it but 12,000 over all the years of those applied were approved. 13,000 applied just last year alone. So that right there tells me the success rate wasn't very good.
Rick,
I'll see if I can find some nuetral info on it. My main point is that this makes an actual standard as to who can and can't have one vs. A Sherrif saiyng yes or no depending on what kind of day he's had. The current criteria. This actually strenghtens the training requirements as well. In the 35 states that have it, none have seen a signifigant increase in crime. In fact most have seen a drop. Like I said it's been in many states for alot of years in which to judge it by. If it were turning quaint fishing villages into the O.K corral they'd have repealed them and the anti crowd would have an easy time getting it defeated.
HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Will you guys please spell Sheriff correctly?...LOL.
Just noticed that Torp. LOL :)
Order a shot of the good stuff. Flip a heavy coin on to the bar and tell the man to leave the bottle. Glance this way and that, looking for evil varmints.
Number 1 in the new law you can not have a blood alcohol level of .04 and carry, unlike the current law where you can drink all you want. Number 2 you still have to have a good reason to be issued a permit so not just any one can get one. and number 3 I don't drink, I would lose control and start shooting fools like you Rick.
"I don't drink, I would lose control and start shooting fools like you Rick. "
Now that I know you're that tightly wound I'll address you accordingly. But before I do, I'll tell you, you're not coming off as an effective spokesman for Conceal/Carry. You're not convincing me.
1K Joe.
EDIT,,,,,,, Rats.
Rick wrote: You're not convincing me.
Nothing convinces Rick. To do so would require a loosening of the liberal dogma.
Nothing convinces Jethro either. To do so would require a loosening of the Jethro dogma.
TMK:
Comparison noted. Thank you very much.
Nothing convinces Jethro either. To do so would require a loosening of the Jethro dogma.
Rick is usually quite serious. jethro may or not be. Sometimes jethro just likes to piss people off. It is especially fun with people that don't like jethro to begin with. You appear to be one of those people TMK.
Rick, I'm not trying to compare you to Jethro. Jethro is a being all his own.
Jethro, I haven't said that I hate you. I haven't told you to eat crap or die or anything like that. How do you know I'm not just trying to piss you off, or just being funny?
Jethro is a being all his own. Yes indeed. It is hard to confuse jethro with anyone else.
Jethro, I haven't said that I hate you. I didn't use the word hate. I used the word dislike.I haven't told you to eat crap or die or anything like that. Maybe not yet!How do you know I'm not just trying to piss you off, or just being funny? Funny is okay. Go ahead piss jethro off. He likes that. Why? I think it is because jethro enjoys conflict something a lot of people don't.
What's so enjoyable about conflict?
The make-up sex?
:)
ThoseMedallingKids 4/25/03 10:24am
LOL !
What's so enjoyable about conflict?
What is enjoyable about anything? You usually just know when it is and when it isn't. Conflict can get the blood pumping and when you are in it you feel alive.
i gotta admit, jethro. you sure do have a unique way of looking at things.
Jethro, you need a hobby. Something to get your blood pumping.
Maybe skydiving, or a boyfriend/girlfriend (Whichever you prefer).
Now that I know you're that tightly wound I'll address you accordingly. But before I do, I'll tell you, you're not coming off as an effective spokesman for Conceal/Carry. You're not convincing me.
I'm not wound tight I just have a vary dark sense of humor. and I do not drink because alcoholism runs in my family and I am a mean drunk.