We can move it to the drug thread if you like. But my reply, if you break the law you get what's coming to you wether you like the law or not. Again, there are many different reasons and different problems ethnic groups have, yes racism is a part of it but not all. It's too easy as their are other categories that contradict that.
BTW What about Asians ?
Please respond in the drug thread. I'm outta here for a bit.
But as with the 2000 election, reacquiring the White House is far more important than the truth. If anyone is guilty of deceit, it's the Democratic leaders who have once again unconscionably sent their followers into the farthest reaches of the Twilight Zone. There, they stew in bitterness and confusion wondering why the majority of people don't view President Bush as a scoundrel instead of the man of faith and character they believe him to be.
A Harris Interactive poll last month found that 54 percent of respondents had a positive view of Ashcroft's job performance and only 32 percent had a negative view. This makes Ashcroft more popular than Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, Dick Gephardt or John Kerry. His positive rating is higher than the Congressional Democrats as a group and Congressional Republicans as a group. He is 20 points more popular than the avuncular Denny Hastert and a few points better than Dick Cheney.
Unaware that a live microphone was broadcasting their words around the Capitol, 11 Assembly Democrats meeting behind closed doors debated prolonging California's budget crisis for political gain, the Los Angeles Times reports.
Members of the Democratic Study Group were unaware that a microphone in the committee room was on as they discussed slowing progress in an attempt to increase pressure on Republicans to accept tax increases as part of a deal to resolve the state's $38-billion budget gap.
The conversation was transmitted to roughly 500 "squawk boxes" around Sacramento that political staff, lobbyists and reporters use to listen in on legislative proceedings.
According to Republican staff members who captured parts of the meeting on tape, Los Angeles Assemblywoman Jackie Goldberg and others discussed holding up the budget to dramatize the consequences and build support for a ballot initiative that would make it easier to raise taxes.
"Since this is going to be a crisis, the crisis could be this year," Goldberg said, according to a transcript. "No one's running [for reelection]. And maybe you end up better off than you would have, and maybe you don't. But what you do is you show people that you can't get to this without a 55 percent vote."
The ballot initiative would let the legislature approve any tax increase with a 55 percent vote. The state constitution requires a two-thirds majority. That means that under the current makeup of the legislature, at least eight Republicans must join the slim Democratic majority for a tax increase to pass.
Fabian Nunez, also of Los Angeles, agreed. "If you don't have a budget, it helps Democrats," he was quoted as saying in the Los Angeles Times report.
Republicans noted that many caucus members have charged the GOP with holding the budget process hostage. Now, those same Democrats have been caught on tape discussing ways to hold things up.
Assembly Budget Committee Vice Chairman John Campbell, R-Irvine, told the Times he listened to about 20 minutes of the meeting on the squawk box in his office.
"It sounded like they were hoping to create a crisis at some point to further their political gains in other areas," he said. "I thought that was outrageous."
Campbell said Democrats also discussed whether delaying the budget would increase the chance of the union-backed initiative that would lower the threshold for new taxes to a 55 percent vote of the legislature.
Campbell said that the Democrats discussed leveraging the public's distaste for the legislature.
After about 90 minutes, a staffer interrupted to alert lawmakers that their meeting was not private at all:
"Excuse me, guys, you can be heard outside," an unidentified staff member said.
"Oh [expletive], [expletive]," Goldberg said.
"The squawk box is on," the staff member said. "You need to turn it off right there."
Republicans noted that many caucus members have charged the GOP with holding the budget process hostage. Now, those same Democrats have been caught on tape discussing ways to hold things up.
This part wasn't in the copied part of Rob's WorldNet Daily(emphasis intended) story.
Musta slipped his mind:
"Goldberg made no apologies about her comments with regard to the timing of a "crisis."
She said it was part of a discussion over whether it would be better to make deeper cuts this year, to show Californians the severity of the state's money troubles, or to disguise the problem this year and make more drastic cuts next year."
"It meant whether or not we do the things this year or next year that let the public understand how serious the situation is," Goldberg said. "They think if we skate by, it was all hyperbole up here.
"We're in a crisis," said Goldberg. "You don't have to precipitate one. The question is whether we should make that crisis happen now when it's really happening ... When you wait a year, you double the amount you have to cut ... Is it better to do it now or next year?"
Most people have made up their mind on this anyway. Any one here can inteprete as they would have anyway.
Well Rick, they got it from that ultra right wing paper known as the LA times, must have slipped your mind. I didn't post the whole thing as I often don't due to lenghth. That's why I posted the link. Sorry, I didn't realize it was my job to do so. I'll put as much effort into it as the BBC and the NYtimes just for you though.
If you buy her excuse so be it, it doesn't suprise me. I guess Dennis was right when he said "by any means nessecary".
I don't buy it, either. But I don't think those 11 people could prolong or hold back the California economy, or the state's budget process.
I know they probably feel embattled, since the Republicans are out to negate the gubernatorial election and put the recall organizer or Arnold Schwarznegger into the governor's office "by any means necessary."
I'd be doing some mean scheming, too. Because the other side has drawn the battle lines.
I don't buy it, either. But I don't think those 11 people could prolong or hold back the California economy, or the state's budget process.
If they were key committee members they certainly could have.
I know they probably feel embattled, since the Republicans are out to negate the gubernatorial election and put the recall organizer or Arnold Schwarznegger into the governor's office.
I'd be doing some mean scheming, too. Because the other side has drawn the battle lines.
You know I'm conflicted on the recall issue but what does that say about them ? Maybe instead they ought to be looking at why in a Democratic leaning state like CA which is the 4th largest economy that some of their own members are willing to let Davis get recalled. And figure out how they got there. Instead they are willing to make life worse for the people who live their to hold onto power. There's times to be tough and agressive and this is probably one of them. But if you're willing to let the people of your own state suffer longer you have no shame, prinicipals or morals.
"There's times to be tough and agressive and this is probably one of them. "
Good, then we agree. The bastards have the long knives out, so you meet them head on.
" But if you're willing to let the people of your own state suffer longer you have no shame, prinicipals or morals. "
That's assumptions and spin. We're not talking about Guatemala here, it's California. A decent national economy would turn things around fast, and a poor national economy is California's main problem. It's most every state's problem.
But they stand to gain the most power from the recall effort, right?
"They've got 1.6 million signatures for a recall."
Malcontents will sign something like that. I could walk over to Uptown this morning with a clipboard and a sheet of paper that says Recall Tim Pawlenty at the top and I bet I could get 100 signatures.
Maybe this should be a trend. We don't like the outcome of elections, lets just start recall efforts.
But they stand to gain the most power from the recall effort, right?
do they? it appears that if Davis is given the boot the Lt. Gov will become the California governor. that does make sense. but the democrats don't want that to get out because they want the whole recall thing to appear to be a republican coup. that is typical of the dishonest democraps.
"This intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic cliches and stereotypes, the researchers advised."
What a great sceintific study that was. How many billion are they in the hole in CA ? There's some money well spent, I wonder how they got in all that debt in California? I know, must be the damn conservatives running the place.
"They make a bunch of blanket statements & provided little evidence."
It's only the news release. It looks like they did some exhaustive research.
"The psychologists sought patterns among 88 samples, involving 22,818 participants, taken from journal articles, books and conference papers. The material originating from 12 countries "
Hitler = 5,750,000 men women and children murdered because of their religion
Mussolini, another murderous dictator who was overthrown by his own people and whose body dragged through the streets as people spat on him and his mistress.
Reagan = a man who was elected and a fairly popular president who helped win the cold war and helped turn a sagging economy around.
**note to self. lobby state of MN for research grant for unbiased "research" on how liberalism is a charachter flaw. make sure to interview a bunch of people before drawing conclusion. Also make sure to include non biasd comparison of liberals to Hitler Pol Pot and Bin Laden.
I think you two are taking the Hitler - Reagan comparison out of context:
"Hitler, Mussolini, and former President Ronald Reagan were individuals, but all were right-wing conservatives because they preached a return to an idealized past and condoned inequality in some form."
They weren't saying that Reagan was like Hitler in that he was brutal and had a maniacal lust for power. The motivations of your conservative beliefs are coming through here. The point they were making is much more nuanced than your apparent conservative linear thinking that only understands simple, broad comparisons.
They weren't saying that Reagan was like Hitler in that he was brutal and had a maniacal lust for power.
No, it just compared the two as sharing some beliefs. geez.
The motivations of your conservative beliefs are coming through here
Oh, not at all, we're saying this from an unbiased perspective, honest, we even say so, just like the study from that bastion of balance known as Berkely.
The point they were making is much more nuanced than your apparent conservaitve linear thinking that craves simple, broad comparisons.
Simple and broad comparisons, you mean like comparing a friggen talk show host to Hitler ?
Or simple and broad comparisons like when you just claim that we do ? Good thing you don't have any ego issues.
Rick, the mere fact you post and or defend a collection of hooey like that speaks volumes.
Hitler, Mussolini, and former President Ronald Reagan were individuals, but all were right-wing conservatives because they preached a return to an idealized past and condoned inequality in some form."
Of course the hole that's bigger than Pluto in that theory is that politically that Hitler's and Mussolini's political systems were based on anything but free markets and more on socialism. And government enforced discrimination So I guess Hitler and Mussolini's policies were more like the liberals.
Also Hitler hardly idealized the past of Germany and wanted change. So their assertions have another gaping hole in them.
crabgrass 7/18/03 1:52pm
We can move it to the drug thread if you like. But my reply, if you break the law you get what's coming to you wether you like the law or not. Again, there are many different reasons and different problems ethnic groups have, yes racism is a part of it but not all. It's too easy as their are other categories that contradict that.
BTW What about Asians ?
Please respond in the drug thread. I'm outta here for a bit.
you have a point here...I'm not sure how all this got dragged over to the wrong threads.
what if you're like me and don't affiliate yourself with a particular party, luv?
what if you're like me and don't affiliate yourself with a particular party, luv?
A dumb trout?
Sorry Rick, I couldn't resist.
Geez fold. I thought for sure you were going to name yourself. You always seem to have all the answers.
America's national security is the lowest priority on the Democratic Party agenda.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidhorowitz/dh20030722.shtml
But as with the 2000 election, reacquiring the White House is far more important than the truth. If anyone is guilty of deceit, it's the Democratic leaders who have once again unconscionably sent their followers into the farthest reaches of the Twilight Zone. There, they stew in bitterness and confusion wondering why the majority of people don't view President Bush as a scoundrel instead of the man of faith and character they believe him to be.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/dl20030719.shtml
But of course, poll-numbers don't "matter", or make any difference, right?
Isn't that what you guys keep saying? Poll numbers don't matter because really Gore won? but of course we all know that GW is the prez.
A Harris Interactive poll last month found that 54 percent of respondents had a positive view of Ashcroft's job performance and only 32 percent had a negative view. This makes Ashcroft more popular than Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, Dick Gephardt or John Kerry. His positive rating is higher than the Congressional Democrats as a group and Congressional Republicans as a group. He is 20 points more popular than the avuncular Denny Hastert and a few points better than Dick Cheney.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20030723.shtml
The media, the presidency and hypocrisy.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/brentbozell/bb20030723.shtml
OOOPS !
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33712
Lovely.
Republicans noted that many caucus members have charged the GOP with holding the budget process hostage. Now, those same Democrats have been caught on tape discussing ways to hold things up.
That's beautiful.
This part wasn't in the copied part of Rob's WorldNet Daily(emphasis intended) story.
Musta slipped his mind:
"Goldberg made no apologies about her comments with regard to the timing of a "crisis."
She said it was part of a discussion over whether it would be better to make deeper cuts this year, to show Californians the severity of the state's money troubles, or to disguise the problem this year and make more drastic cuts next year."
"It meant whether or not we do the things this year or next year that let the public understand how serious the situation is," Goldberg said. "They think if we skate by, it was all hyperbole up here.
"We're in a crisis," said Goldberg. "You don't have to precipitate one. The question is whether we should make that crisis happen now when it's really happening ... When you wait a year, you double the amount you have to cut ... Is it better to do it now or next year?"
Most people have made up their mind on this anyway. Any one here can inteprete as they would have anyway.
Rick 7/23/03 7:10pm
Well Rick, they got it from that ultra right wing paper known as the LA times, must have slipped your mind.
I didn't post the whole thing as I often don't due to lenghth. That's why I posted the link. Sorry, I didn't realize it was my job to do so. I'll put as much effort into it as the BBC and the NYtimes just for you though.
If you buy her excuse so be it, it doesn't suprise me. I guess Dennis was right when he said "by any means nessecary".
I don't buy it, either. But I don't think those 11 people could prolong or hold back the California economy, or the state's budget process.
I know they probably feel embattled, since the Republicans are out to negate the gubernatorial election and put the recall organizer or Arnold Schwarznegger into the governor's office "by any means necessary."
I'd be doing some mean scheming, too. Because the other side has drawn the battle lines.
Rick 7/23/03 7:37pm
If they were key committee members they certainly could have.
You know I'm conflicted on the recall issue but what does that say about them ? Maybe instead they ought to be looking at why in a Democratic leaning state like CA which is the 4th largest economy that some of their own members are willing to let Davis get recalled. And figure out how they got there. Instead they are willing to make life worse for the people who live their to hold onto power. There's times to be tough and agressive and this is probably one of them. But if you're willing to let the people of your own state suffer longer you have no shame, prinicipals or morals.
"There's times to be tough and agressive and this is probably one of them. "
Good, then we agree. The bastards have the long knives out, so you meet them head on.
" But if you're willing to let the people of your own state suffer longer you have no shame, prinicipals or morals. "
That's assumptions and spin. We're not talking about Guatemala here, it's California. A decent national economy would turn things around fast, and a poor national economy is California's main problem. It's most every state's problem.
since the Republicans are out to negate the gubernatorial election
They've got 1.6 million signatures for a recall.
He's got a 23% approval rating.
This isn't just a Republican conspiracy. He's doing a lousy ass job and Democrats and Republicans alike, want him gone.
"This isn't just a Republican conspiracy"
But they stand to gain the most power from the recall effort, right?
"They've got 1.6 million signatures for a recall."
Malcontents will sign something like that. I could walk over to Uptown this morning with a clipboard and a sheet of paper that says Recall Tim Pawlenty at the top and I bet I could get 100 signatures.
Maybe this should be a trend. We don't like the outcome of elections, lets just start recall efforts.
I'll float that idea to the DFLers I know
But they stand to gain the most power from the recall effort, right?
Yes, of course. That's not to say that the Democrats in the state are happy with him. Like I said, 23% approval rating says it all.
I bet I could get 100 signatures.
But could you get enough for a recall?
I'm just glad I don't live in California.
Recall George Bush!!!
We don't like the outcome of elections, lets just start recall efforts.
That's not all it is.
I'll float that idea to the DFLers I know
Good luck.
"This isn't just a Republican conspiracy"
But they stand to gain the most power from the recall effort, right?
do they? it appears that if Davis is given the boot the Lt. Gov will become the California governor. that does make sense. but the democrats don't want that to get out because they want the whole recall thing to appear to be a republican coup. that is typical of the dishonest democraps.
Won't there be an election if he's given the boot?
That's how I understood it.
JT see this: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,92615,00.html
I gotta research this some more. This isn't something that happens very often.
I read the last time was in 1921 in one of the Dakota's.
"This isn't something that happens very often."
If it's successful you might see that change.
I doubt it.
When's the last time you heard someone had a 23% approval rating?
I mean, that means his own don't want him either.
So, Davis can run again.
"So, Davis can run again."
I heard awhile ago Califonrians could be looking at an election with, literally, dozens of names on the ballot.
The very person organizing the recall could end up governor.
According to the news, he is planning on it.
I gotta get more informed on this process.
I heard awhile ago Califonrians could be looking at an election with, literally, dozens of names on the ballot.
I read that too.
That all you need is 65 signatures, and $3,500, or just 10,000 signatures.
The very person organizing the recall could end up governor.
Who's running the recall? Is it the Secretary of State? Is he in, because he's a Democrat too.
The recall effort is by an outfit called Save California, or something like that.
Chaos is their business.
But chief poobah of the recall could end up on the ballot, too.
The very person organizing the recall could end up governor.
So what?
Damn... maybe I should move out there and run...
Conservatism: Diagnosed
"This intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic cliches and stereotypes, the researchers advised."
I hope Rick does not think that source is unbiased. But he probably does.
What a crock.
They make a bunch of blanket statements & provided little evidence.
Seems to me they based their "analysis" on their own preconceived stereotypes.
They lost any iota of credibility when they compared Reagan to Hitler & Mussolini.
Come on. I didn't care for the guy either, but get real.
What a great sceintific study that was. How many billion are they in the hole in CA ? There's some money well spent, I wonder how they got in all that debt in California? I know, must be the damn conservatives running the place.
"They make a bunch of blanket statements & provided little evidence."
It's only the news release. It looks like they did some exhaustive research.
"The psychologists sought patterns among 88 samples, involving 22,818 participants, taken from journal articles, books and conference papers. The material originating from 12 countries "
And they said they were not being judgemental.
THX 1138 7/25/03 11:39am
Hitler = 5,750,000 men women and children murdered because of their religion
Mussolini, another murderous dictator who was overthrown by his own people and whose body dragged through the streets as people spat on him and his mistress.
Reagan = a man who was elected and a fairly popular president who helped win the cold war and helped turn a sagging economy around.
My God, they're clones!
Well as long as they said so.
I think you two are taking the Hitler - Reagan comparison out of context:
"Hitler, Mussolini, and former President Ronald Reagan were individuals, but all were right-wing conservatives because they preached a return to an idealized past and condoned inequality in some form."
They weren't saying that Reagan was like Hitler in that he was brutal and had a maniacal lust for power. The motivations of your conservative beliefs are coming through here. The point they were making is much more nuanced than your apparent conservative linear thinking that only understands simple, broad comparisons.
No, it just compared the two as sharing some beliefs. geez.
Oh, not at all, we're saying this from an unbiased perspective, honest, we even say so, just like the study from that bastion of balance known as Berkely.
Simple and broad comparisons, you mean like comparing a friggen talk show host to Hitler ?
Or simple and broad comparisons like when you just claim that we do ? Good thing you don't have any ego issues.
Rick, the mere fact you post and or defend a collection of hooey like that speaks volumes.
"Simple and broad comparisons, you mean like comparing a friggen talk show host to Hitler ?"
It was a narrow comparison, only involving one aspect.
"Rick, the mere fact you post and or defend a collection of hooey like that speaks volumes."
I'll get off the issue. I was having too much fun, anyway.
Of course the hole that's bigger than Pluto in that theory is that politically that Hitler's and Mussolini's political systems were based on anything but free markets and more on socialism. And government enforced discrimination So I guess Hitler and Mussolini's policies were more like the liberals.
Also Hitler hardly idealized the past of Germany and wanted change. So their assertions have another gaping hole in them.
the responses here sure go a long way toward validating the research findings
Rick,
You said it before, and you'll say it again:
"Eventually, everyone gets compared to Hitler".
I guess you were right.
:-)
The findings would appear more applicable to liberals.
The little Austrian had many sides.