We had no interest in Bosnia. If you are going to send US troops we ought to be damn sure there are US interests at stake.Also, we went in there in cooperation with the U.N. Whether you like the organization of the U.N. or not, it still represents the rest of the world and to withdraw from it makes about as much sense as thinking we can withdraw from Earth or humanity. The UN represents a lot of things and very little of it good. We can get out of the UN and we would still be dealing with the rest of the world. We just wouldn't be wasting our resources on it.The structure may not be perfect, but it is the vehicle with which we deal with the rest of the humans that live on this planet and it can't be simply ignored. Hell yes it could be ignored.So back to the original point, there wasn't much reason to oppose going into the Balkans and thus no one is too worried about getting out. There wasn't any reason to go there. And talk about deceit the US government jacked up the numbers to get the voters support for such action.
The obvious answer one might give is that we don't seem to have much of a casualty rate over there, nor are we being asked to spend billions of dollars to rebuild the place.
Really ? Well we're spending Over a billion a year in 03' and it's been going on for 10 years with more spent before that. Home by Christmas was the call, they never said which Chirstmas though. We alos are tying up troops for it.
But actually it's much more subtle than those things. For one, in that case we did decide that we were going to go over there for largely humanitarian reasons and it seemed in general everyone was ok with that. Also, we went in there in cooperation with the U.N.
We refused to commit troops to the actual UN mission. Only to the peace keeping part run by NATO, which was IFOR, now SFOR.
Whether you like the organization of the U.N. or not, it still represents the rest of the world and to withdraw from it makes about as much sense as thinking we can withdraw from Earth or humanity. The structure may not be perfect, but it is the vehicle with which we deal with the rest of the humans that live on this planet and it can't be simply ignored. So back to the original point, there wasn't much reason to oppose going into the Balkans and thus no one is too worried about getting out.
Really, nobody is worried about getting out eh ? Hmmm. What happened to all the people worried about poor planning ? We were supposed to be out of there 5 years ago ! Only if the UN would take over......oops , nevermind.
Secondly, we're not really pissing anyone off or aggravating a dangerous situation by being in the Balkans.
Really ?
So in that case it's o.k but in this case it's not.
So if Bush would have come on TV and said it was for only Humanitarian reasons would you have supported it then ?
Before you try to tell me how great the UN is and how we should have involved them you should know that for over 3 years the UN, yes the UN tried to keep the peace in Bosnia. They COULDN'T ! For over 3 Years !So they turned it over to NATO. Yet we ought to have them in Iraq ? In one case alone they failed to protect a UN mandated "safe area" and 8,000 Muslim men women and children were executed. The massacre was carried out after the commander of the UNPROFOR (United Nations Protection Force), General Bertrand Janvier, (France, there's a suprise) refused to carry out UNPROFOR's mandate to defend the Safe Area and handed it over to Serbian army General Ratko Mladic. That's just one instance. So yea I guess the world could look the other way since the UN was involved. It didn't matter they couldn't do the job there or in China, Cambodia, Rwanda or the rest of the Middle East. No siree as long as we feel better about it that's o.k.
It is time to lay to rest the nagging doubt held by many Americans that our government was somehow responsible for fostering bin Laden. It's not true and it leaves the false impression that we brought the Sept. 11 attacks down on ourselves. While it is impossible to prove a negative, all available evidence suggests that bin Laden was never funded, trained or armed by the CIA.
You're entirely missing the point about the U.N. First off, if the war had been opposed only countries like Syria and Somalia, the UN would not have stood in the way of the war. But it was countries like France, Germany, and Russia, relatively major players on the world scene. If all those countries had been on our side also, and it was a country like Syria that was holding things up, then yes, I would say there's something faulty about how the UN works. But when the opposition comes from major powers, it's silly to try and say the UN is the problem. Without the UN, these countries still would have opposed us and there still would not have been a general worldwide concensus on what to do about Iraq. Yet you guys continue to try and parade out the shortcomings of the UN as if they were somehow relevant.
Let me try and tie this all together one last time and perhaps someone will comprehend it.
What makes someone a terrorist? Are they just born that way? No. Are they raised that way with no option for free will? No. No matter how much you attempt to indoctrinate someone, there has to be something to reinforce those beliefs before they truly stick. So what confirms someone on the terrorist track, or what inspires someone to take that kind of action, or what makes someone else feel willing to support that action or at least turn the other way when they see it? They have to have some perception that America really is the enemy. Something like the Iraq war can be the dose of reality that will prove to be the trigger in making them believe all this hatred is justified and worth acting upon. Anger is a very energy-consuming emotion that's hard to keep up for a long time. If we weren't doing anything to upset them, their numbers would dwindle and only the psychopaths would remain. Others would eventually conclude the anger just wasn't worth it. But even in this country people are worked up over it to unprecedented levels.
So this idea of perceptions is important. The easier it is to paint the US as an immediate threat to their way of life, the easier it is to get recruits for the jihad. Just look at the effect 9/11 had on us. People who couldn't even find Afghanistan on a map were calling for the place to be obliterated. Why would you think what we're doing wouldn't have the same effect on them?
So this is a war of propoganda. We could eliminate thousands of enemy troops and thousands more potential troops by simply not giving them a reason to fight.
After 9/11, we had the sympathy of every country in the world, including places like Iran. We had a good idea of who was responsible and could have made a good case for international cooperation in weeding out terrorists and apprehending those responsible. Look at the job Pakistan is doing for us. I think other countries might have done the same if we had maintained their good will and sympathy.
And now in Iraq, the question isn't about how effective would the UN be as compared to the US alone. The question is why are we there and who's interests are we representing? Our own or the world's? if we're their representing our own interests as jethro seems to advocate, then why should anyone else give a damn about helping us? And if America is there to protect it's own interests, why shouldn't other Arabs feel threatened that they too are on the list of those to be "Americanized"? And feeling threatened in that way, without the military might to do anything about it, is what drives people to use terrorism as a tactic instead.
It doesn't take a lot of people to carry out an attack. Look at Timothy McVeigh who had maybe one known accomplice. So if we're driving up the number of recruits for groups like Al-Q, that is a dangerous thing.
I think we'd be much better off working towards peace. If we can do that, and settle the Israel/Palestine thing, and help foster economic prosperity around the world, the terrorists would really have no incentive to attack us.
Without the UN France, Germany and Russia would have opposed us.Yet you guys continue to try and parade out the shortcomings of the UN as if they were somehow relevant. The UN is a worthless bureaucratic organization that serves no purpose other than to fulfill a pipedream.
You're entirely missing the point about the U.N. First off, if the war had been opposed only countries like Syria and Somalia, the UN would not have stood in the way of the war. But it was countries like France, Germany, and Russia, relatively major players on the world scene.
And why were they opposed to doing so? Do you think it had anything to do with politics and the trade agreements they had with them not to mention the arms sales ? Just an FYI Somolia doesn't have a ruling or recognized govt. Interesting you bring up Syria they chair the anti terrorism commision. Doesnt that seem a little odd to you ? Not to mention Lybia and Cuba chairing the human rights commision ?
If all those countries had been on our side also, and it was a country like Syria that was holding things up, then yes, I would say there's something faulty about how the UN works. But when the opposition comes from major powers, it's silly to try and say the UN is the problem.
So it's only o.k if "major" players said no ? What about the other 10 major players (permanent sec. council members) who were in support ? The UN is the problem. Kofi Anan basically admitted in his speech yesterday that the UN needs to become more clear and focused on it's mission and also follow up it's words with actions not to mention moving faster on threats. The UN did nothing in Rwanda, sadly we didn't either. The UN had to turn over control of Bosnia to NATO after it allowed 8,000 to be massacred in Serbrinca. They failed to get involved in Kosovo. Why ? Because of these same few countries you mentioned and we went into Kososvo without UN approval. The UN is bogged down in politics and bereuacracy while people are buried in mass graves.
The UN could and can be a meaningful organization once again. One of the reasons we took action was because of their inaction. 12 years of debate and broken resolutions set the tone which was set well before that. The Serbs ignored UN mandates time after time. What did the UN do ? Nothing and that's exactly why they went ahead. UN mandates have lost all meaning and consequence. Time after time countries ignore them because they can. So how you can then say the UN is effective or isn't the problem. If Saddamn had any reason to believe the UN might do what it said he very well could have taken a different route. He didn't and in fact after he ignored the UN essentially for 16 broken resolutions the only thing that got him to respond was 130,000 troops surrounding his country.
What makes someone a terrorist? Are they just born that way? No. Are they raised that way with no option for free will? No. No matter how much you attempt to indoctrinate someone, there has to be something to reinforce those beliefs before they truly stick. So what confirms someone on the terrorist track, or what inspires someone to take that kind of action, or what makes someone else feel willing to support that action or at least turn the other way when they see it? They have to have some perception that America really is the enemy. Something like the Iraq war can be the dose of reality that will prove to be the trigger in making them believe all this hatred is justified and worth acting upon
What makes a KKK member tick ? It's the same exact thing. It's racism and hatred of a group. Go take a look at the Maddrasas and sermon's the Imams give. It's no different than a grand dragon. Do either have valid points ? Want to reason with them? You assume that the people had valid reasons to fly planes into civilian laden buildings. Would you assume the idiots who lynched black people had valid reasons ? In both their minds they did but it sure as hell doesn't make them right.
What made them take action on 9-11 ? The WTC in 93' the US embasies in Africa ? The Cole ? Khobar towers, Lebannon ? Beirut?
So this is a war of propoganda. We could eliminate thousands of enemy troops and thousands more potential troops by simply not giving them a reason to fight.
O.K where were we fighting or attacking Muslims before 9-11 ? or before the 93 WTC ? The Cole ?
After 9/11, we had the sympathy of every country in the world, including places like Iran.
You're kidding I hope. Oh sure the Ihatolla issued a statement offering sympathy perhaps but if you really believe that I can't help you.
We had a good idea of who was responsible and could have made a good case for international cooperation in weeding out terrorists and apprehending those responsible. Look at the job Pakistan is doing for us. I think other countries might have done the same if we had maintained their good will and sympathy.
Pakistan is doing so for the money and the fact they are worried about being overrun by the fundies in their country. , it has nothing to do with sympathy.
And now in Iraq, the question isn't about how effective would the UN be as compared to the US alone. The question is why are we there and who's interests are we representing? Our own or the world's?
So France, Germany were just acting in the worlds interests ? I've got news for you, every country acts in their own interest first and everyone elses second If you beleive otherwise I have some land I want to sell you.
I think we'd be much better off working towards peace. If we can do that, and settle the Israel/Palestine thing, and help foster economic prosperity around the world, the terrorists would really have no incentive to attack us.
We've tried 3 times now to settle the dispute. The Palestinans can't seem to stop blowing up busses for more than a few weeks. As far as the economic prosperity goes, most of the 9-11 highjackers were middle class, well educated and well traveled.
Wolvie, don't sell yourself short. I am certain that you can state your case better than Jethro can.
Well I thank you for the compliment Bill. What I meant was, jethro and L2F did such a good job responding, I didn't need to. Hell thats why I don't post that much. L2F usally post what I was going to anyway, or something very close to what I would have. Of course that makes it easier for me. all I have to do is read now. =)
Please answer as many of the following questions as you can, and as many with a straight face as possible. Please answer quickly as you already have all of the answers.
1. Since George W. Bush is evil, and thought by some to be far more dangerous than Saddam Hussein, could you please list the instances you are aware of where George W. Bush has ordered the murder, torture and rape of American citizens, like yourself, who oppose his presidency.
2. Could you list any sites of mass graves of American citizens ordered to be killed by the Bush administration?
3. Further, could you please list the instances you are aware of when George W. Bush has ordered the murder of members of his own family.
4. Do you feel that Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons he was specifically forbidden to have by the UN; for example, the Scud missiles he fired into Kuwait during the first two weeks of the war?
5. How do you think Saddam was able to fire weapons that he didn't have?
6. Are inspectors inspectors, or are inspectors detectives?
7. How many more months would you have given Saddam Hussein to comply with the 17 UN resolutions, passed over 12 years?
8. If you owned an apartment building, for how many months would you allow a tenant to defy you to kick him out for not paying the rent he owes?
9. If the UN, and the previous administration, were convinced Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, and used that as a basis for their actions against Iraq, how do those reasons evaporate when applied by the Bush administration?
10. If the Bush administration, led by the evil GWB, lied about weapons of mass destruction in order to go to war, why haven't we found any WMD secretly planted by the Bush administration?
11. If you feel it would be too difficult to plant WMD in Iraq, because there are too many people watching, such that no one can do anything sneaky in Iraq, then why can't we find Saddam?
12. Do you disagree with the statement..."The weapons of mass destruction used in the 9/11 attacks were box-cutters"?
13. Do you think finding an airplane fuselage in a terrorist training camp in northern Iraq means terrorists were practicing hijackings? If not, for what purpose do you think they were using the airplane?
14. Knowing what little you may know about spy satellites, what do you think Iraq was hiding using the tunnel-digging equipment they bought from the French some 5 years ago?
15. Why do you think Iraq had a 'Higher Committee for Monitoring the Inspection Teams' headed by Hussein's Vice-President, and son, Qusay?
16. The fact that Iraq trained experts to foil UN weapons inspectors is documented not just by U.S. intelligence organizations, but by those of many other countries. Why do you think Iraq needed to use these tactics, if George W. Bush is lying?
17. In 1995, Iraq admitted it had biological weapons. They declared they had, for example, 8500 liters of anthrax. Where did they all go? If Iraq destroyed them, why would there be any need for more UN resolutions after that?
18. When do you think Iraq abandoned their existing Weapons of Mass Destruction program? What do you think was their motivation for abandoning it- the 17th time the UN said 'pretty please', or the fact that it was spending too much money that could used for social programs to improve the lives of Iraqi citizens?
19. Do you think the bio-weapons lab vehicles found in Iraq were being used as lunch wagons, or as mobile auto detail trucks?
20. If a terrorist organization attacked America tomorrow by spraying anthrax over a large city, would you blame George W. Bush for not doing enough?
21. Would Hillary?
22. How many minutes after the attack do you think it would take for Hillary to appear on CNN?
23. If an illegal U.S. president declares an illegal war, wouldn't the two cancel each other out?
By Staff Sgt. Stephen Hudson, ANG Special to American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23, 2003 – Thanks to efforts by U.S. and coalition forces, electrical services in Iraq will be at prewar levels within a month, Ambassador L. Paul Bremer told members of the Senate Appropriations Committee Sept. 22.
Bremer, who was on Capitol Hill urging Congress to support the president's $87 billion supplemental budget request, spoke about the success America and its coalition partners are seeing in post-Saddam Hussein Iraq.
"All of Iraq's 240 hospitals and 90 percent of its health clinics are open today," he said. "There is adequate food and there is no sign of epidemic. We have cleared thousands of miles of irrigation canals so that farmers in these areas have more water than they've had in a generation."
According to Bremer, most of the work has been done by the Iraqis and often financed by the Coalition Provisional Authority.
Speaking optimistically about the future of Iraq, Bremer said a group of local restaurateurs presented a petition to him last week that asked to have the curfew in Baghdad extended from 11 p.m. to midnight because "business is so good."
"But I would not hide from you the fact that it is a difficult environment. There are, after all, significant dangers," Bremer said. "But it is considerably better than it was a couple of weeks – a couple of months ago."
Bremer equated what is now occurring in Iraq to the post World War II Marshall Plan. But then, the United States waited three years after the end of the war to help rebuild war-torn Europe.
"Iraqis, living in freedom with dignity, will set an example in this troubled region which so often spawns terrorism," Bremer said. "A stable, peaceful, economically productive Iraq will serve America's interest by making America safer."
by Tech. Sgt. Mark Getsy 506th Air Expeditionary Group Public Affairs
9/23/2003 - KIRKUK, Iraq (AFPN) -- Schools here are still a week away from opening, but smiling children are already climbing the gates, eagerly waiting for the first day of class.
Why? Because Air Force and Army volunteers have extended a helping hand so these children can further their education in modernized facilities.
Members of the Air Force’s 506th Expeditionary Civil Engineer Squadron at Kirkuk Air Base and the Army’s Battle Company, 2nd Battalion, 503rd Airborne, have teamed up to renovate two schools in the local area.
The first school, a model for the rest of the Kirkuk schools, is scheduled to open for class Oct. 1.
“We adopted the schools because they were close to our safe houses,” said 1st Sgt. Richard Weik, the Army project officer. “The first thing we did was go around and assess the electrical and plumbing situation. It was a mess.”
The Army called in Air Force electricians to help get the school ready for business.
Tech. Sgt. Jack Vollriede, an electrician for the 506th ECES, said Air Force electricians were already in the area working on Army safe houses when they heard about the project.
“The Army asked us if we would check out the electrical work being done at the school,” said Vollriede. “I saw the work needing (to be) done was similar to what I do in my civilian job back home so I asked others in my shop to volunteer and help out with the project.”
Since mid-September, more than 10 electricians have been working daily to get the schools up and running. Vollriede said it is hard at times to find the right parts, but the team has managed to accomplish a great deal in a short period of time.
“We have completed five electrical service panel replacements, installed emergency lighting, fixed all the interior lighting and even fixed the school bell,” he said. “We are now working on installing grounded outlets for computers in all the classrooms and offices.”
Sgt. 1st Class Edwin Gorgas, project officer for the second school, said the renovations are only in the beginning stages, but they are a great improvement from what they initially saw.
“When we got here, the doors were ripped out, only two lights worked and the bathrooms were disgusting, to put it nicely,” Gorgas said. “We’re hoping to have all the doors replaced, the plumbing fixed and all the lights working before school starts. Then our goal is to build a courtyard, cafeteria, teachers’ lounge and a library.”
Vollriede said that help for the schools extends all the way back to the United States. Children back home are writing letters to wish the Iraqi children good luck, and many vendors and organizations are sending school supplies, he said.
“(There are) already eight schools in Illinois donating items and the number is growing,” said Vollriede.
An American veterans group is sending care packages and U.S. businesses are sending supplies, said Vollriede.
Weik said working in the schools and helping out the children is a good stress reliever.
“(There are) times we’re in a firefight or something earlier in the day,” he said. “It always feels good to come here afterward and be able to do something for the children.”
The rest of the volunteers agree that no matter how much work goes into it, the project is definitely worthwhile.
“It’s great doing this for the kids,” said Vollriede. “Looking at the big picture, we are shaping the future of an entire community.”
Tech. Sgt. Patrick Grisez, another volunteer electrician, said he would not have passed up the opportunity for anything.
“This is what makes coming here (Iraq) worthwhile,” he said. “We’re hoping we get the chance to do more things like this to help them out.”
I think the Constitution is pretty clear on the line of seccesion. It goes Pres, VP and then Speaker of the House, etc...BTW I do not watch the west wing. On Wed. I watch Junk Yard Wars then go to bed.
Yes we must alow the UN to take over. This exemplifies the true disfunctional nature of the UN. As ususal when they are really needed is the time they are least likely to help. Can you say Cambodia or Rwanda ? They're leaving and yet will demand to call the shots. There's TV stations and reporters who aren't leaving and they (the UN) is. Talk about courage and commitment. It also is the perfect example becuase they have the capability and forces avialible to provide protection to their workers and they HAVEN'T ! Can you protect everything and be 100% safe ? Of course not obviously, but they haven't even taken adequate measures to do so. Instead they refused our help and failed to put up barriers and keep Saddamns boys in charge of security. Gee, I wonder how they knew that the top guy was in his office when the bomb went off ? Yes there's risk in peacekeeping and humanitarian work. If it were risk free it probably wouldn't be needed. If they can't protect their own base they sure aren't up to the job of protecting the rest of the country.
So even in the restructuring they waffle. The attack on their HQ did not have to happen. Bases are one of the few things that are fairly easy to protect or at least reduce the risk of attack. They are too mired down with finger pointing as to whom is going to do what to be effective. They aren't even effective at the humanitarian side because they don't have the fortitude to do so.
BTW I happend to stumble across this lookin for a date reference.
It's from 2000.
Kofi Annan, the UN secretary general, has said the US government's lack of leadership and desire to avoid the loss of American lives is to blame for the failure of peacekeeping operations around the world.
In an interview with Time magazine before next week's UN millennium conference, Mr Annan stops short of directly criticising Bill Clinton's administration. However, his comments make it clear that the US position has hampered efforts by the international organisation to act effectively in trouble zones.
Remember when Alexander Haig declared "I'm in charge"?
I remember wondering if Georgie Sr. was shot too. That snippet of his comment was rerun on late night talk shows as much as the shooting itself was on the news.
US 101st Tackles Arab Tribes Helping Guerrillas Reach Iraq from Syria
DEBKAfile Updates DEBKA-Net-Weekly Special Report
September 22, 2003, 1:52 PM (GMT+02:00)
Syrian Vice President Khalim Haddam Saturday, September 20, dismissed any suggestion of Damascus bowing to pressure from Washington – or being scared by economic sanctions. American threats are futile, he said. Syria does little business with the US; its main trading partners are European. The Syrian leader was responding to US demands for a halt to the passage of terrorists and Islamic fighters pouring into Iraq and an end to Syrian-based terrorist activity.
One of top anti-US officials left in place in the latest government reshuffle in Damascus, Haddam made this speech while preparing to receive a delegation of angry Arab-Sunni tribal leaders from the Syrian-Iraq borderlands. The purpose of that meeting was kept secret because its exposure would have belied Haddam’s declaration.
Whatever the Syrian leader may say to the contrary, there are two main issues preying on the minds of his government: One is the quiet US military action to shut down the tribal umbrella protecting smuggled anti-US fighting elements streaming across the porous Syrian-Iraqi border; the other is Washington’s refusal to re-activate the Kirkuk-Syrian oil pipeline which in Saddam Hussein’s day netted the Syrian exchequer a cool one billion dollars a year.
DEBKA-Net-Weekly (September 19) first revealed that troops of the US 101st Airborne Division had embarked on a cleansing operation against the Arab nomadic tribes ranging through the Iraqi-Syrian and Iraqi-Saudi border regions, who abet and shield the influx of fighters from Syria.
The operation began after US secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld wound up his Baghdad visit on September 14. This week, the sheikhs sent a delegation post haste to Damascus to demand that Bashar Assad obtain the immediate release of the paramount chief of the Anaza, Sheikh Ibrahim Hanjari, who was captured by 101st troops with his entire court.
In his encampment, the troops discovered a large arsenal of weapons, ammunition, landmines, rocket-propelled grenades and explosives, packed ready for shipment into Iraq, as well as dozens of Saudi suitcases crammed with millions of dollars. In one hideout, US troops turned up $1.6 million in $100 bills. Eighty Saudi fighters, along with 48 armed Syrians, Yemenis, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sudanese and Palestinians, were rounded up, together with documents and mail proving that the Anaza – from chiefs down to the lowliest Bedouin – run the pipeline smuggling Arab and Al Qaeda fighters of various nationalities through Syria into Iraq.
Since the Saudi royal family traces its origins to the Anaza, the US action has touched an extremely sensitive regional chord that may well provoke broad guerrilla action and reprisals in the form of the abductions of American personnel to obtain the sheikh’s release.
On the other hand, such kidnappings are already threatened by Iraqi guerrilla forces and their allies. Furthermore, the US authorities were shocked into action when they realized the scale of the incoming traffic in the last few weeks, estimated now in tens of thousands.
From Saudi Arabia alone, US intelligence has put together a list of 15,000 armed Wahhabist fundamentalists with military training and al Qaeda terrorists, who are either in Iraq or on their way there to join the campaign against the Americans.
As they were gathered, the names were forwarded to Riyadh with a request to detain potential guerrillas and terrorists or otherwise prevent them from reaching the Iraqi border.
The Saudis have so far made no response, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources in the Gulf.
US troops also came up with evidence that Syrian President Bashar Assad had not acted in good faith when he promised Washington to direct the three Syrian divisions deployed along the Iraqi frontier to block the outflow of men and arms. Instead, he ordered them to afford every assistance to Hanjani’s men in speeding the traffic on its way.
In view of these discoveries, 101st Airborne troops have broadened their area of operation in western Iraq to include the Iraqi city of Anah on the banks of the Tigris River between the Syrian border city of Abu Kamal, and the key Iraqi city of al Hadithah. After Anah was placed under curfew for house-to-house searches, the town was found to be the Anaza’s primary base and hideout for intruders. Anti-American gunmen and smuggled weapons were turned up in hiding places around the city, in the dense undergrowth lining both banks of the Tigris and in other places in the al-Qaim region. The operation is still under way and is destined to move south to al Hadithah.
As for the threat of sanctions, the Syria Accountability Act and Lebanon Sovereignty Restoration Act – if enacted by the US Congress - could impose a virtual trade embargo on Syria. However, no legislation is necessary for the most painful measure already in motion. The American civil administration in Baghdad is withholding instructions to reactivate the Kirkuk-Banias oil pipeline which before the war carried 300,000 barrels a day of Saddam Hussein’s smuggled oil exports to Syria’s Mediterranean terminal, earning Syria $1bn per annum.
Last April, the Americans severed the pipeline when at a high point in the war they caught Assad opening the door wide for Arab fighters, including Palestinian and Hizballah terrorists, to cross over and fight alongside Saddam Hussein’s army.
In recent weeks, attempts to revive Iraqi oil exports through the main Kirkuk pipeline to Turkey have been frustrated by sabotage attacks every few days. DEBKAfile’s sources report that, while disregarding the American grievances against him, the Syrian president has been bombarding Washington with demands to restore the flow of oil through the Syrian pipeline under joint American-Syrian military protection.
So pressing is this issue, that Assad appealed to Tehran for help. At his invitation, the Iranian foreign minister Kamal Kharrazi arrived in Damascus on September 8. According to DEBKAfile’s Middle East sources, the Syrian ruler made no mention of the pipeline. Instead, he complained bitterly about the embarrassments caused him by the way Iranian Revolutionary Guards officers in Damascus and based in Lebanon flaunt their relations with Palestinian and other Arab terrorist elements from his turf.
He cited the case of the Palestinian suicide attack at Neve Afek north of Tel Aviv on August 12 that led Israeli intelligence to uncover an Iranian Revolutionary Guards money pipeline to Palestinian al Aqsa Suicide Brigades cells in the West Bank town of Nablus.
DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources reveal that, in the wake of that suicide attack, Israel Israeli caught an al Aqsa operative called Osman Younes, who takes his orders from Col. Tawfiq Tirawi. The captive revealed under interrogation that Tirawi’s men were drawing wages from two sources, Yasser Arafat and Iranian Revolutionary Guards bank accounts in Beirut and Damascus.
Assad counted on Tehran being sympathetic to his complaint. He would then have been able to demonstrate to the Americans his success in cutting off Iranian ties and feed-lines to Palestinian terrorists. In return for this service, Washington would have revived the flow of Kirkuk oil to the Banias terminal. But he miscalculated. Tehran shows no sign of lowering the profile of its collaboration with Palestinian terrorists in Syria and Lebanon.
Editor's Note: This is an open letter from U.S. Army Maj. Eric Rydbom in Iraq to the First Lutheran Church of Richmond Beach in Shoreline, Wash. Rydbom is Deputy Division Engineer of the 4th Infantry Division.
Let's start with electrical power production in Iraq. The day after the war was declared over, there was nearly 0 power being generated in Iraq. Just 45 days later, in a partnership between the Army, the Iraqi people and some private companies, there are now 3200 megawatts (Mw) of power being produced daily, 1/3 of the total national potential of 8000 Mw. Downed power lines (big stuff, 400 Kilovolt (Kv) and 132 Kv) are being repaired and are about 70 percent complete.
Then there is water purification. In central Iraq between Baghdad and Mosul, home of the 4th Infantry Division, water treatment was spotty at best. The facilities existed, but the controls were never implemented. Simple chemicals like Chlorine for purification and Alum (Aluminum Sulfate) for sediment settling (the Tigris River is about as clear as the Mississippi River) were in very short supply or not used at all. When chlorine was used, it was metered by the scientific method of guessing.
So some people got pool water to drink and some people got water with lots of little things floating around in it. We are slowly but surely solving that. Contracts for repairs to facilities that are only 50 percent or less operational are being let, chemicals are being delivered, although we don't have the metering problem solved yet (...but again, it's only been 45 days).
How about oil and fuel? Well the war was all about oil wasn't it? You bet it was. It was all about oil for the Iraqi people! They have no other income. They produce nothing else. Oil is 95 percent of the Iraqi GNP. For this nation to survive, it must sell oil.
The Refinery at Bayji is [operating] at 75 percent of capacity producing gasoline. The crude pipeline between Kirkuk (Oil Central) and Bayji will be repaired by tomorrow (2 June). LPG, what all Iraqis use to cook and heat with, is at 103 percent of normal production and we, the U.S. Army, are ensuring it is being distributed fairly to all Iraqis.
You have to remember that only three months ago, all these things were used by the Saddam regime as weapons against the population to keep them in line. If your town misbehaved, gasoline shipments stopped, LPG pipelines and trucks stopped, water was turned off, power was turned off.
Now, until exports start, every drop of gasoline produced goes to the Iraqi people. Crude oil is being stored and the country is at 75 percent capacity right now. They need to export or stop pumping soon, so thank the U.N. for the delay.
All LPG goes to the Iraqi people everywhere. Water is being purified as best it can be, but at least its running all the time to everyone.
Are we still getting shot at? Yep.
Are American soldiers still dying? Yep, about one a day from my outfit, the 4th Infantry Division, most in accidents, but dead is dead.
If we are doing all this for the Iraqis, why are they shooting at us?
The general Iraqi population isn't shooting at us. There are still bad guys who won't let go of the old regime. They are Ba'ath party members (Read Nazi Party, but not as nice) who have known nothing but and supported nothing but the regime all of their lives. These are the thugs for the regime who caused many to disappear in the night. They have no other skills. At least the Nazis [in Germany] had jobs and a semblance of a national infrastructure that they could go back to after the war, as plumbers, managers, engineers, etc. These people have no skills but terror. They are simply applying their skills ... and we are applying ours.
There is no Christian way to say this, but they must be eliminated and we are doing so with all the efficiency we can muster. Our troops are shot at literally everyday by small arms and Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPGs). We respond. One hundred percent of the time, the Ba''ath party guys come out with the short end of the stick.
The most amazing thing to me is that they don't realize that if they stopped shooting at us, we would focus on fixing things more quickly and then leave back to the land of the Big PX. The more they shoot at us, the longer we will have to stay.
Lastly, all of you please realize that 90 percent of the damage you see on TV was caused by Iraqis, not by us and not by the war. Sure, we took out a few bridges from military necessity, we took out a few power and phone lines to disrupt communications, sure we drilled a few palaces and government headquarters buildings with 2000 lb. laser guided bombs (I work 100 yards from where two hit the Tikrit Palace), [but] he had plenty to spare.
But, any damage you see to schools, hospitals, power generation facilities, refineries, pipelines, was all caused either by the Iraqi Army in its death throes or from much of the Iraqi civilians looting the places.
Could we have prevented it? Nope.
We can and do now, but 45 days ago, the average soldier was fighting for his own survival and trying to get to his objectives as fast as possible. He was lucky to know what town he was in much less be informed enough to know who owned what or have the power to stop 1,000 people from looting and burning a building by himself.
The United States and our allies, especially Great Britain, are doing a very noble thing here. We stuck our necks out on the world's chopping block to free an entire people from the grip of a horrible terror that was beyond belief.
I've already talked the weapons of mass destruction thing to death - bottom line, who cares? This country was one big conventional weapons ammo dump anyway.. We have probably destroyed more weapons and ammo in the last 30 days than the U.S. Army has ever fired in the last 30 years (remember, this is a country the size of Texas), so drop the WMD argument as the reason we came here. If we find it great if we don't, so what?
I'm living in a "guest palace" on a 500-acre palace compound with 20 palaces with like facilities built in half a dozen towns all over Iraq that were built for one man. Drive down the street and out into the countryside five miles away like I have and see all the families of 10 or more, all living in mud huts and herding the two dozen sheep on which their very existence depends ....then tell me why you think we are here.
Respectfully,
ERIC RYDBOM MAJOR, ENGINEER Deputy Division Engineer 4th Infantry Division
Some members of Congress are sounding the same theme. Georgia Democrat Jim Marshall says negative media coverage is getting our troops in Iraq killed and is encouraging Baathist holdouts to think they can drive the U.S. from Iraq. Marshall, a Vietnam vet, said there is "a disconnect between the reporting and the reality," partly because the 27 reporters left in Iraq are "all huddled in a hotel."
Marshall and a bipartisan group of six other representatives just returned from Iraq. The lawmakers charged that reporters have developed an overall negative tone and a "police blotter" mind-set, stressing attacks and little else. Ranking member Ike Skelton, D.-Mo., said he was impressed with the flexibility and innovation of the American military, including 3,100 projects in northern Iraq, from soccer fields to schools to refineries, "all good stuff, and that isn't being reported."
D.C. spends $9,933 per child (link). The only ones that spend more are New York ($10,039) and New Jersey ($10,283) Compare that to Minn. at $7,051 per child.
The Federal Budget has increased from $49,505 million in 2002 to $50,310 million in 2003 and $53,137 million in 2004. An increase of more than $3 1/2 Billion in 3 years.
How can you possibly come to the conclusion that he is not spending money on schools, especially in the D.C. area?
The District of Columbia would receive $159 million under President George W. Bush's fiscal year 2003 budget request of $56.5 billion for the Department of Education, including for the department a record high $50.3 billion for discretionary programs, continuing his commitment to improve student achievement and to leave no child behind.
The $159 million for D.C. would represent a boost of $7 million from the current level of federal education grants to the state.
President Bush's request builds on recent growth in the department's budget, which has more than doubled since 1996.
And Fold says...he is spending NOTHING on D.C. Schools...
Kuwaiti security authorities have foiled an attempt to smuggle $60 million worth of chemical weapons and biological warheads from Iraq to an unnamed European country, a Kuwaiti newspaper said on Wednesday...
The population of Iraq (1997 estimate) is 22,219,289.
Washington DC 1990 population: 3,923,574
that's fine, but the original comment didn't involve the population of Iraq...if it did, you would have to figure in the deaths incurred in that population as well. How many Iraqi have died in this war? As big a percentage as in DC?
I got the point.
you are trying to justify the loss of life in Iraq by saying "yea, but look at this over here".
of course we have a war in DC...it's called the War on Drugs. And yes, there are many casualties, just as there continue to be in Iraq.
We had no interest in Bosnia. If you are going to send US troops we ought to be damn sure there are US interests at stake.Also, we went in there in cooperation with the U.N. Whether you like the organization of the U.N. or not, it still represents the rest of the world and to withdraw from it makes about as much sense as thinking we can withdraw from Earth or humanity. The UN represents a lot of things and very little of it good. We can get out of the UN and we would still be dealing with the rest of the world. We just wouldn't be wasting our resources on it.The structure may not be perfect, but it is the vehicle with which we deal with the rest of the humans that live on this planet and it can't be simply ignored. Hell yes it could be ignored.So back to the original point, there wasn't much reason to oppose going into the Balkans and thus no one is too worried about getting out. There wasn't any reason to go there. And talk about deceit the US government jacked up the numbers to get the voters support for such action.
Allison,
Really ? Well we're spending Over a billion a year in 03' and it's been going on for 10 years with more spent before that. Home by Christmas was the call, they never said which Chirstmas though. We alos are tying up troops for it.
We refused to commit troops to the actual UN mission. Only to the peace keeping part run by NATO, which was IFOR, now SFOR.
Really, nobody is worried about getting out eh ? Hmmm. What happened to all the people worried about poor planning ? We were supposed to be out of there 5 years ago ! Only if the UN would take over......oops , nevermind.
Really ?
So in that case it's o.k but in this case it's not.
So if Bush would have come on TV and said it was for only Humanitarian reasons would you have supported it then ?
BTW Allison,
Before you try to tell me how great the UN is and how we should have involved them you should know that for over 3 years the UN, yes the UN tried to keep the peace in Bosnia. They COULDN'T ! For over 3 Years !So they turned it over to NATO. Yet we ought to have them in Iraq ? In one case alone they failed to protect a UN mandated "safe area" and 8,000 Muslim men women and children were executed. The massacre was carried out after the commander of the UNPROFOR (United Nations Protection Force), General Bertrand Janvier, (France, there's a suprise) refused to carry out UNPROFOR's mandate to defend the Safe Area and handed it over to Serbian army General Ratko Mladic. That's just one instance. So yea I guess the world could look the other way since the UN was involved. It didn't matter they couldn't do the job there or in China, Cambodia, Rwanda or the rest of the Middle East. No siree as long as we feel better about it that's o.k.
Their track record is anything but stellar.
Very well said Jethro and L2F! I couldn't have said it any better. Some people just can not see the hypocrisy of the Democrats stance.
the way I see it is it's Yojimbo
they get two sides fighting, and then do business with both of them to provide mercenary services with both to make money off them.
It is time to lay to rest the nagging doubt held by many Americans that our government was somehow responsible for fostering bin Laden. It's not true and it leaves the false impression that we brought the Sept. 11 attacks down on ourselves. While it is impossible to prove a negative, all available evidence suggests that bin Laden was never funded, trained or armed by the CIA.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98115,00.html
You're entirely missing the point about the U.N. First off, if the war had been opposed only countries like Syria and Somalia, the UN would not have stood in the way of the war. But it was countries like France, Germany, and Russia, relatively major players on the world scene. If all those countries had been on our side also, and it was a country like Syria that was holding things up, then yes, I would say there's something faulty about how the UN works. But when the opposition comes from major powers, it's silly to try and say the UN is the problem. Without the UN, these countries still would have opposed us and there still would not have been a general worldwide concensus on what to do about Iraq. Yet you guys continue to try and parade out the shortcomings of the UN as if they were somehow relevant.
Let me try and tie this all together one last time and perhaps someone will comprehend it.
What makes someone a terrorist? Are they just born that way? No. Are they raised that way with no option for free will? No. No matter how much you attempt to indoctrinate someone, there has to be something to reinforce those beliefs before they truly stick. So what confirms someone on the terrorist track, or what inspires someone to take that kind of action, or what makes someone else feel willing to support that action or at least turn the other way when they see it? They have to have some perception that America really is the enemy. Something like the Iraq war can be the dose of reality that will prove to be the trigger in making them believe all this hatred is justified and worth acting upon. Anger is a very energy-consuming emotion that's hard to keep up for a long time. If we weren't doing anything to upset them, their numbers would dwindle and only the psychopaths would remain. Others would eventually conclude the anger just wasn't worth it. But even in this country people are worked up over it to unprecedented levels.
So this idea of perceptions is important. The easier it is to paint the US as an immediate threat to their way of life, the easier it is to get recruits for the jihad. Just look at the effect 9/11 had on us. People who couldn't even find Afghanistan on a map were calling for the place to be obliterated. Why would you think what we're doing wouldn't have the same effect on them?
So this is a war of propoganda. We could eliminate thousands of enemy troops and thousands more potential troops by simply not giving them a reason to fight.
After 9/11, we had the sympathy of every country in the world, including places like Iran. We had a good idea of who was responsible and could have made a good case for international cooperation in weeding out terrorists and apprehending those responsible. Look at the job Pakistan is doing for us. I think other countries might have done the same if we had maintained their good will and sympathy.
And now in Iraq, the question isn't about how effective would the UN be as compared to the US alone. The question is why are we there and who's interests are we representing? Our own or the world's? if we're their representing our own interests as jethro seems to advocate, then why should anyone else give a damn about helping us? And if America is there to protect it's own interests, why shouldn't other Arabs feel threatened that they too are on the list of those to be "Americanized"? And feeling threatened in that way, without the military might to do anything about it, is what drives people to use terrorism as a tactic instead.
It doesn't take a lot of people to carry out an attack. Look at Timothy McVeigh who had maybe one known accomplice. So if we're driving up the number of recruits for groups like Al-Q, that is a dangerous thing.
I think we'd be much better off working towards peace. If we can do that, and settle the Israel/Palestine thing, and help foster economic prosperity around the world, the terrorists would really have no incentive to attack us.
Without the UN France, Germany and Russia would have opposed us.Yet you guys continue to try and parade out the shortcomings of the UN as if they were somehow relevant. The UN is a worthless bureaucratic organization that serves no purpose other than to fulfill a pipedream.
And why were they opposed to doing so? Do you think it had anything to do with politics and the trade agreements they had with them not to mention the arms sales ? Just an FYI Somolia doesn't have a ruling or recognized govt. Interesting you bring up Syria they chair the anti terrorism commision. Doesnt that seem a little odd to you ? Not to mention Lybia and Cuba chairing the human rights commision ?
So it's only o.k if "major" players said no ? What about the other 10 major players (permanent sec. council members) who were in support ? The UN is the problem. Kofi Anan basically admitted in his speech yesterday that the UN needs to become more clear and focused on it's mission and also follow up it's words with actions not to mention moving faster on threats. The UN did nothing in Rwanda, sadly we didn't either. The UN had to turn over control of Bosnia to NATO after it allowed 8,000 to be massacred in Serbrinca. They failed to get involved in Kosovo. Why ? Because of these same few countries you mentioned and we went into Kososvo without UN approval. The UN is bogged down in politics and bereuacracy while
people are buried in mass graves.
The UN could and can be a meaningful organization once again. One of the reasons we took action was because of their inaction. 12 years of debate and broken resolutions set the tone which was set well before that. The Serbs ignored UN mandates time after time. What did the UN do ? Nothing and that's exactly why they went ahead. UN mandates have lost all meaning and consequence. Time after time countries ignore them because they can. So how you can then say the UN is effective or isn't the problem. If Saddamn had any reason to believe the UN might do what it said he very well could have taken a different route. He didn't and in fact after he ignored the UN essentially for 16 broken resolutions the only thing that got him to respond was 130,000 troops surrounding his country.
What makes a KKK member tick ? It's the same exact thing. It's racism and hatred of a group. Go take a look at the Maddrasas and sermon's the Imams give. It's no different than a grand dragon. Do either have valid points ? Want to reason with them? You assume that the people had valid reasons to fly planes into civilian laden buildings. Would you assume the idiots who lynched black people had valid reasons ? In both their minds they did but it sure as hell doesn't make them right.
What made them take action on 9-11 ? The WTC in 93' the US embasies in Africa ? The Cole ? Khobar towers, Lebannon ? Beirut?
O.K where were we fighting or attacking Muslims before 9-11 ?
or before the 93 WTC ? The Cole ?
You're kidding I hope. Oh sure the Ihatolla issued a statement offering sympathy perhaps but if you really believe that I can't help you.
Pakistan is doing so for the money and the fact they are worried about being overrun by the fundies in their country. , it has nothing to do with sympathy.
So France, Germany were just acting in the worlds interests ? I've got news for you, every country acts in their own interest first and everyone elses second If you beleive otherwise I have some land I want to sell you.
We've tried 3 times now to settle the dispute. The Palestinans can't seem to stop blowing up busses for more than a few weeks. As far as the economic prosperity goes, most of the 9-11 highjackers were middle class, well educated and well traveled.
The UN could and can be a meaningful organization once again.
I don't think the UN ever was a meaningful organization.
Wolvie, don't sell yourself short. I am certain that you can state your case better than Jethro can.
Well I thank you for the compliment Bill. What I meant was, jethro and L2F did such a good job responding, I didn't need to. Hell thats why I don't post that much. L2F usally post what I was going to anyway, or something very close to what I would have. Of course that makes it easier for me. all I have to do is read now. =)
Please answer as many of the following questions as you can, and as many with a straight face as possible. Please answer quickly as you already have all of the answers.
1. Since George W. Bush is evil, and thought by some to be far more dangerous than Saddam Hussein, could you please list the instances you are aware of where George W. Bush has ordered the murder, torture and rape of American citizens, like yourself, who oppose his presidency.
2. Could you list any sites of mass graves of American citizens ordered to be killed by the Bush administration?
3. Further, could you please list the instances you are aware of when George W. Bush has ordered the murder of members of his own family.
4. Do you feel that Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons he was specifically forbidden to have by the UN; for example, the Scud missiles he fired into Kuwait during the first two weeks of the war?
5. How do you think Saddam was able to fire weapons that he didn't have?
6. Are inspectors inspectors, or are inspectors detectives?
7. How many more months would you have given Saddam Hussein to comply with the 17 UN resolutions, passed over 12 years?
8. If you owned an apartment building, for how many months would you allow a tenant to defy you to kick him out for not paying the rent he owes?
9. If the UN, and the previous administration, were convinced Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, and used that as a basis for their actions against Iraq, how do those reasons evaporate when applied by the Bush administration?
10. If the Bush administration, led by the evil GWB, lied about weapons of mass destruction in order to go to war, why haven't we found any WMD secretly planted by the Bush administration?
11. If you feel it would be too difficult to plant WMD in Iraq, because there are too many people watching, such that no one can do anything sneaky in Iraq, then why can't we find Saddam?
12. Do you disagree with the statement..."The weapons of mass destruction used in the 9/11 attacks were box-cutters"?
13. Do you think finding an airplane fuselage in a terrorist training camp in northern Iraq means terrorists were practicing hijackings? If not, for what purpose do you think they were using the airplane?
14. Knowing what little you may know about spy satellites, what do you think Iraq was hiding using the tunnel-digging equipment they bought from the French some 5 years ago?
15. Why do you think Iraq had a 'Higher Committee for Monitoring the Inspection Teams' headed by Hussein's Vice-President, and son, Qusay?
16. The fact that Iraq trained experts to foil UN weapons inspectors is documented not just by U.S. intelligence organizations, but by those of many other countries. Why do you think Iraq needed to use these tactics, if George W. Bush is lying?
17. In 1995, Iraq admitted it had biological weapons. They declared they had, for example, 8500 liters of anthrax. Where did they all go? If Iraq destroyed them, why would there be any need for more UN resolutions after that?
18. When do you think Iraq abandoned their existing Weapons of Mass Destruction program? What do you think was their motivation for abandoning it- the 17th time the UN said 'pretty please', or the fact that it was spending too much money that could used for social programs to improve the lives of Iraqi citizens?
19. Do you think the bio-weapons lab vehicles found in Iraq were being used as lunch wagons, or as mobile auto detail trucks?
20. If a terrorist organization attacked America tomorrow by spraying anthrax over a large city, would you blame George W. Bush for not doing enough?
21. Would Hillary?
22. How many minutes after the attack do you think it would take for Hillary to appear on CNN?
23. If an illegal U.S. president declares an illegal war, wouldn't the two cancel each other out?
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20030924-080344-5035r.htm
Bremer Highlights Successes in Iraq
By Staff Sgt. Stephen Hudson, ANG
Special to American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23, 2003 – Thanks to efforts by U.S. and coalition forces, electrical services in Iraq will be at prewar levels within a month, Ambassador L. Paul Bremer told members of the Senate Appropriations Committee Sept. 22.
Bremer, who was on Capitol Hill urging Congress to support the president's $87 billion supplemental budget request, spoke about the success America and its coalition partners are seeing in post-Saddam Hussein Iraq.
"All of Iraq's 240 hospitals and 90 percent of its health clinics are open today," he said. "There is adequate food and there is no sign of epidemic. We have cleared thousands of miles of irrigation canals so that farmers in these areas have more water than they've had in a generation."
According to Bremer, most of the work has been done by the Iraqis and often financed by the Coalition Provisional Authority.
Speaking optimistically about the future of Iraq, Bremer said a group of local restaurateurs presented a petition to him last week that asked to have the curfew in Baghdad extended from 11 p.m. to midnight because "business is so good."
"But I would not hide from you the fact that it is a difficult environment. There are, after all, significant dangers," Bremer said. "But it is considerably better than it was a couple of weeks – a couple of months ago."
Bremer equated what is now occurring in Iraq to the post World War II Marshall Plan. But then, the United States waited three years after the end of the war to help rebuild war-torn Europe.
"Iraqis, living in freedom with dignity, will set an example in this troubled region which so often spawns terrorism," Bremer said. "A stable, peaceful, economically productive Iraq will serve America's interest by making America safer."
Iraqi children awaiting first day of school
by Tech. Sgt. Mark Getsy
506th Air Expeditionary Group Public Affairs
9/23/2003 - KIRKUK, Iraq (AFPN) -- Schools here are still a week away from opening, but smiling children are already climbing the gates, eagerly waiting for the first day of class.
Why? Because Air Force and Army volunteers have extended a helping hand so these children can further their education in modernized facilities.
Members of the Air Force’s 506th Expeditionary Civil Engineer Squadron at Kirkuk Air Base and the Army’s Battle Company, 2nd Battalion, 503rd Airborne, have teamed up to renovate two schools in the local area.
The first school, a model for the rest of the Kirkuk schools, is scheduled to open for class Oct. 1.
“We adopted the schools because they were close to our safe houses,” said 1st Sgt. Richard Weik, the Army project officer. “The first thing we did was go around and assess the electrical and plumbing situation. It was a mess.”
The Army called in Air Force electricians to help get the school ready for business.
Tech. Sgt. Jack Vollriede, an electrician for the 506th ECES, said Air Force electricians were already in the area working on Army safe houses when they heard about the project.
“The Army asked us if we would check out the electrical work being done at the school,” said Vollriede. “I saw the work needing (to be) done was similar to what I do in my civilian job back home so I asked others in my shop to volunteer and help out with the project.”
Since mid-September, more than 10 electricians have been working daily to get the schools up and running. Vollriede said it is hard at times to find the right parts, but the team has managed to accomplish a great deal in a short period of time.
“We have completed five electrical service panel replacements, installed emergency lighting, fixed all the interior lighting and even fixed the school bell,” he said. “We are now working on installing grounded outlets for computers in all the classrooms and offices.”
Sgt. 1st Class Edwin Gorgas, project officer for the second school, said the renovations are only in the beginning stages, but they are a great improvement from what they initially saw.
“When we got here, the doors were ripped out, only two lights worked and the bathrooms were disgusting, to put it nicely,” Gorgas said. “We’re hoping to have all the doors replaced, the plumbing fixed and all the lights working before school starts. Then our goal is to build a courtyard, cafeteria, teachers’ lounge and a library.”
Vollriede said that help for the schools extends all the way back to the United States. Children back home are writing letters to wish the Iraqi children good luck, and many vendors and organizations are sending school supplies, he said.
“(There are) already eight schools in Illinois donating items and the number is growing,” said Vollriede.
An American veterans group is sending care packages and U.S. businesses are sending supplies, said Vollriede.
Weik said working in the schools and helping out the children is a good stress reliever.
“(There are) times we’re in a firefight or something earlier in the day,” he said. “It always feels good to come here afterward and be able to do something for the children.”
The rest of the volunteers agree that no matter how much work goes into it, the project is definitely worthwhile.
“It’s great doing this for the kids,” said Vollriede. “Looking at the big picture, we are shaping the future of an entire community.”
Tech. Sgt. Patrick Grisez, another volunteer electrician, said he would not have passed up the opportunity for anything.
“This is what makes coming here (Iraq) worthwhile,” he said. “We’re hoping we get the chance to do more things like this to help them out.”
I think the Constitution is pretty clear on the line of seccesion. It goes Pres, VP and then Speaker of the House, etc...BTW I do not watch the west wing. On Wed. I watch Junk Yard Wars then go to bed.
nope. the constitution only provides for the vp, and leaves the line of succession thereafter up to congress to decide.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html
Rich T 9/25/03 4:06pm
Thanks Rich, on top of it as always :)
Thank you Rich, I knew I was right.
Luv2Fly 9/25/03 4:49pm
I do what I can. :)
Wolvie 9/25/03 4:50pm
You were right indeed.
Annan Orders Cut in U.N. Staff in Iraq
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98320,00.html
Yes we must alow the UN to take over. This exemplifies the true disfunctional nature of the UN. As ususal when they are really needed is the time they are least likely to help. Can you say Cambodia or Rwanda ? They're leaving and yet will demand to call the shots. There's TV stations and reporters who aren't leaving and they (the UN) is. Talk about courage and commitment. It also is the perfect example becuase they have the capability and forces avialible to provide protection to their workers and they HAVEN'T ! Can you protect everything and be 100% safe ? Of course not obviously, but they haven't even taken adequate measures to do so. Instead they refused our help and failed to put up barriers and keep Saddamns boys in charge of security. Gee, I wonder how they knew that the top guy was in his office when the bomb went off ? Yes there's risk in peacekeeping and humanitarian work. If it were risk free it probably wouldn't be needed. If they can't protect their own base they sure aren't up to the job of protecting the rest of the country.
So even in the restructuring they waffle. The attack on their HQ did not have to happen. Bases are one of the few things that are fairly easy to protect or at least reduce the risk of attack. They are too mired down with finger pointing as to whom is going to do what to be effective. They aren't even effective at the humanitarian side because they don't have the fortitude to do so.
BTW I happend to stumble across this lookin for a date reference.
It's from 2000.
BWAAAHH ! Oh the hypocrisy.
Speaking of succession
Remember when Alexander Haig declared "I'm in charge"?
THX 1138 9/25/03 5:57pm
I sure do.
Remember when Alexander Haig declared "I'm in charge"?
I remember wondering if Georgie Sr. was shot too. That snippet of his comment was rerun on late night talk shows as much as the shooting itself was on the news.
US 101st Tackles Arab Tribes Helping Guerrillas Reach Iraq from Syria
DEBKAfile Updates DEBKA-Net-Weekly Special Report
September 22, 2003, 1:52 PM (GMT+02:00)
Syrian Vice President Khalim Haddam Saturday, September 20, dismissed any suggestion of Damascus bowing to pressure from Washington – or being scared by economic sanctions. American threats are futile, he said. Syria does little business with the US; its main trading partners are European. The Syrian leader was responding to US demands for a halt to the passage of terrorists and Islamic fighters pouring into Iraq and an end to Syrian-based terrorist activity.
One of top anti-US officials left in place in the latest government reshuffle in Damascus, Haddam made this speech while preparing to receive a delegation of angry Arab-Sunni tribal leaders from the Syrian-Iraq borderlands. The purpose of that meeting was kept secret because its exposure would have belied Haddam’s declaration.
Whatever the Syrian leader may say to the contrary, there are two main issues preying on the minds of his government: One is the quiet US military action to shut down the tribal umbrella protecting smuggled anti-US fighting elements streaming across the porous Syrian-Iraqi border; the other is Washington’s refusal to re-activate the Kirkuk-Syrian oil pipeline which in Saddam Hussein’s day netted the Syrian exchequer a cool one billion dollars a year.
DEBKA-Net-Weekly (September 19) first revealed that troops of the US 101st Airborne Division had embarked on a cleansing operation against the Arab nomadic tribes ranging through the Iraqi-Syrian and Iraqi-Saudi border regions, who abet and shield the influx of fighters from Syria.
The operation began after US secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld wound up his Baghdad visit on September 14. This week, the sheikhs sent a delegation post haste to Damascus to demand that Bashar Assad obtain the immediate release of the paramount chief of the Anaza, Sheikh Ibrahim Hanjari, who was captured by 101st troops with his entire court.
In his encampment, the troops discovered a large arsenal of weapons, ammunition, landmines, rocket-propelled grenades and explosives, packed ready for shipment into Iraq, as well as dozens of Saudi suitcases crammed with millions of dollars. In one hideout, US troops turned up $1.6 million in $100 bills. Eighty Saudi fighters, along with 48 armed Syrians, Yemenis, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sudanese and Palestinians, were rounded up, together with documents and mail proving that the Anaza – from chiefs down to the lowliest Bedouin – run the pipeline smuggling Arab and Al Qaeda fighters of various nationalities through Syria into Iraq.
Since the Saudi royal family traces its origins to the Anaza, the US action has touched an extremely sensitive regional chord that may well provoke broad guerrilla action and reprisals in the form of the abductions of American personnel to obtain the sheikh’s release.
On the other hand, such kidnappings are already threatened by Iraqi guerrilla forces and their allies. Furthermore, the US authorities were shocked into action when they realized the scale of the incoming traffic in the last few weeks, estimated now in tens of thousands.
From Saudi Arabia alone, US intelligence has put together a list of 15,000 armed Wahhabist fundamentalists with military training and al Qaeda terrorists, who are either in Iraq or on their way there to join the campaign against the Americans.
As they were gathered, the names were forwarded to Riyadh with a request to detain potential guerrillas and terrorists or otherwise prevent them from reaching the Iraqi border.
The Saudis have so far made no response, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources in the Gulf.
US troops also came up with evidence that Syrian President Bashar Assad had not acted in good faith when he promised Washington to direct the three Syrian divisions deployed along the Iraqi frontier to block the outflow of men and arms. Instead, he ordered them to afford every assistance to Hanjani’s men in speeding the traffic on its way.
In view of these discoveries, 101st Airborne troops have broadened their area of operation in western Iraq to include the Iraqi city of Anah on the banks of the Tigris River between the Syrian border city of Abu Kamal, and the key Iraqi city of al Hadithah. After Anah was placed under curfew for house-to-house searches, the town was found to be the Anaza’s primary base and hideout for intruders. Anti-American gunmen and smuggled weapons were turned up in hiding places around the city, in the dense undergrowth lining both banks of the Tigris and in other places in the al-Qaim region. The operation is still under way and is destined to move south to al Hadithah.
As for the threat of sanctions, the Syria Accountability Act and Lebanon Sovereignty Restoration Act – if enacted by the US Congress - could impose a virtual trade embargo on Syria. However, no legislation is necessary for the most painful measure already in motion. The American civil administration in Baghdad is withholding instructions to reactivate the Kirkuk-Banias oil pipeline which before the war carried 300,000 barrels a day of Saddam Hussein’s smuggled oil exports to Syria’s Mediterranean terminal, earning Syria $1bn per annum.
Last April, the Americans severed the pipeline when at a high point in the war they caught Assad opening the door wide for Arab fighters, including Palestinian and Hizballah terrorists, to cross over and fight alongside Saddam Hussein’s army.
In recent weeks, attempts to revive Iraqi oil exports through the main Kirkuk pipeline to Turkey have been frustrated by sabotage attacks every few days. DEBKAfile’s sources report that, while disregarding the American grievances against him, the Syrian president has been bombarding Washington with demands to restore the flow of oil through the Syrian pipeline under joint American-Syrian military protection.
So pressing is this issue, that Assad appealed to Tehran for help. At his invitation, the Iranian foreign minister Kamal Kharrazi arrived in Damascus on September 8. According to DEBKAfile’s Middle East sources, the Syrian ruler made no mention of the pipeline. Instead, he complained bitterly about the embarrassments caused him by the way Iranian Revolutionary Guards officers in Damascus and based in Lebanon flaunt their relations with Palestinian and other Arab terrorist elements from his turf.
He cited the case of the Palestinian suicide attack at Neve Afek north of Tel Aviv on August 12 that led Israeli intelligence to uncover an Iranian Revolutionary Guards money pipeline to Palestinian al Aqsa Suicide Brigades cells in the West Bank town of Nablus.
DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources reveal that, in the wake of that suicide attack, Israel Israeli caught an al Aqsa operative called Osman Younes, who takes his orders from Col. Tawfiq Tirawi. The captive revealed under interrogation that Tirawi’s men were drawing wages from two sources, Yasser Arafat and Iranian Revolutionary Guards bank accounts in Beirut and Damascus.
Assad counted on Tehran being sympathetic to his complaint. He would then have been able to demonstrate to the Americans his success in cutting off Iranian ties and feed-lines to Palestinian terrorists. In return for this service, Washington would have revived the flow of Kirkuk oil to the Banias terminal. But he miscalculated. Tehran shows no sign of lowering the profile of its collaboration with Palestinian terrorists in Syria and Lebanon.
Editor's Note: This is an open letter from U.S. Army Maj. Eric Rydbom in Iraq to the First Lutheran Church of Richmond Beach in Shoreline, Wash. Rydbom is Deputy Division Engineer of the 4th Infantry Division.
It has been a while since I have written to my friends at First Lutheran Churchabout what's really going on here in Iraq. The news you watch on TV is exaggerated, sensationalized and selective. Good news doesn't sell.
The stuff you don't hear about on CNN?
Let's start with electrical power production in Iraq. The day after the war was declared over, there was nearly 0 power being generated in Iraq. Just 45 days later, in a partnership between the Army, the Iraqi people and some private companies, there are now 3200 megawatts (Mw) of power being produced daily, 1/3 of the total national potential of 8000 Mw. Downed power lines (big stuff, 400 Kilovolt (Kv) and 132 Kv) are being repaired and are about 70 percent complete.
Then there is water purification. In central Iraq between Baghdad and Mosul, home of the 4th Infantry Division, water treatment was spotty at best. The facilities existed, but the controls were never implemented. Simple chemicals like Chlorine for purification and Alum (Aluminum Sulfate) for sediment settling (the Tigris River is about as clear as the Mississippi River) were in very short supply or not used at all. When chlorine was used, it was metered by the scientific method of guessing.
So some people got pool water to drink and some people got water with lots of little things floating around in it. We are slowly but surely solving that. Contracts for repairs to facilities that are only 50 percent or less operational are being let, chemicals are being delivered, although we don't have the metering problem solved yet (...but again, it's only been 45 days).
How about oil and fuel? Well the war was all about oil wasn't it? You bet it was. It was all about oil for the Iraqi people! They have no other income. They produce nothing else. Oil is 95 percent of the Iraqi GNP. For this nation to survive, it must sell oil.
The Refinery at Bayji is [operating] at 75 percent of capacity producing gasoline. The crude pipeline between Kirkuk (Oil Central) and Bayji will be repaired by tomorrow (2 June). LPG, what all Iraqis use to cook and heat with, is at 103 percent of normal production and we, the U.S. Army, are ensuring it is being distributed fairly to all Iraqis.
You have to remember that only three months ago, all these things were used by the Saddam regime as weapons against the population to keep them in line. If your town misbehaved, gasoline shipments stopped, LPG pipelines and trucks stopped, water was turned off, power was turned off.
Now, until exports start, every drop of gasoline produced goes to the Iraqi people. Crude oil is being stored and the country is at 75 percent capacity right now. They need to export or stop pumping soon, so thank the U.N. for the delay.
All LPG goes to the Iraqi people everywhere. Water is being purified as best it can be, but at least its running all the time to everyone.
Are we still getting shot at? Yep.
Are American soldiers still dying? Yep, about one a day from my outfit, the 4th Infantry Division, most in accidents, but dead is dead.
If we are doing all this for the Iraqis, why are they shooting at us?
The general Iraqi population isn't shooting at us. There are still bad guys who won't let go of the old regime. They are Ba'ath party members (Read Nazi Party, but not as nice) who have known nothing but and supported nothing but the regime all of their lives. These are the thugs for the regime who caused many to disappear in the night. They have no other skills. At least the Nazis [in Germany] had jobs and a semblance of a national infrastructure that they could go back to after the war, as plumbers, managers, engineers, etc. These people have no skills but terror. They are simply applying their skills ... and we are applying ours.
There is no Christian way to say this, but they must be eliminated and we are doing so with all the efficiency we can muster. Our troops are shot at literally everyday by small arms and Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPGs). We respond. One hundred percent of the time, the Ba''ath party guys come out with the short end of the stick.
The most amazing thing to me is that they don't realize that if they stopped shooting at us, we would focus on fixing things more quickly and then leave back to the land of the Big PX. The more they shoot at us, the longer we will have to stay.
Lastly, all of you please realize that 90 percent of the damage you see on TV was caused by Iraqis, not by us and not by the war. Sure, we took out a few bridges from military necessity, we took out a few power and phone lines to disrupt communications, sure we drilled a few palaces and government headquarters buildings with 2000 lb. laser guided bombs (I work 100 yards from where two hit the Tikrit Palace), [but] he had plenty to spare.
But, any damage you see to schools, hospitals, power generation facilities, refineries, pipelines, was all caused either by the Iraqi Army in its death throes or from much of the Iraqi civilians looting the places.
Could we have prevented it? Nope.
We can and do now, but 45 days ago, the average soldier was fighting for his own survival and trying to get to his objectives as fast as possible. He was lucky to know what town he was in much less be informed enough to know who owned what or have the power to stop 1,000 people from looting and burning a building by himself.
The United States and our allies, especially Great Britain, are doing a very noble thing here. We stuck our necks out on the world's chopping block to free an entire people from the grip of a horrible terror that was beyond belief.
I've already talked the weapons of mass destruction thing to death - bottom line, who cares? This country was one big conventional weapons ammo dump anyway.. We have probably destroyed more weapons and ammo in the last 30 days than the U.S. Army has ever fired in the last 30 years (remember, this is a country the size of Texas), so drop the WMD argument as the reason we came here. If we find it great if we don't, so what?
I'm living in a "guest palace" on a 500-acre palace compound with 20 palaces with like facilities built in half a dozen towns all over Iraq that were built for one man. Drive down the street and out into the countryside five miles away like I have and see all the families of 10 or more, all living in mud huts and herding the two dozen sheep on which their very existence depends ....then tell me why you think we are here.
Respectfully,
ERIC RYDBOM
MAJOR, ENGINEER
Deputy Division Engineer
4th Infantry Division
I read somewhere this weekend that more people are killed on the streets of Washington DC each day, than soldiers are killed in Iraq.
I don't know if this is accurate or not, but it sort of puts things in perspective.
perspective?
DC has 5 times the people, most of whom don't carry around automatic weapons.
but yea...the perspective is that the war on drugs is a bigger failure.
I'd agree with that.
Once again the point is missed.
Then it's twisted to justify murder in the name of legalizing drugs.
The population of Iraq (1997 estimate) is 22,219,289.
Washington DC 1990 population: 3,923,574
Some members of Congress are sounding the same theme. Georgia Democrat Jim Marshall says negative media coverage is getting our troops in Iraq killed and is encouraging Baathist holdouts to think they can drive the U.S. from Iraq. Marshall, a Vietnam vet, said there is "a disconnect between the reporting and the reality," partly because the 27 reporters left in Iraq are "all huddled in a hotel."
Marshall and a bipartisan group of six other representatives just returned from Iraq. The lawmakers charged that reporters have developed an overall negative tone and a "police blotter" mind-set, stressing attacks and little else. Ranking member Ike Skelton, D.-Mo., said he was impressed with the flexibility and innovation of the American military, including 3,100 projects in northern Iraq, from soccer fields to schools to refineries, "all good stuff, and that isn't being reported."
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/johnleo/jl20030929.shtml
crab's druggie buddies probably bought up all the vests.
Woosh, right over the head.
D.C. spends $9,933 per child (link). The only ones that spend more are New York ($10,039) and New Jersey ($10,283) Compare that to Minn. at $7,051 per child.
The Federal Budget has increased from $49,505 million in 2002 to $50,310 million in 2003 and $53,137 million in 2004. An increase of more than $3 1/2 Billion in 3 years.
How can you possibly come to the conclusion that he is not spending money on schools, especially in the D.C. area?
President Bush Asks Congress for $159 Million for District of Columbia Students
And Fold says...he is spending NOTHING on D.C. Schools...
How can you possibly come to the conclusion that he is not spending money on schools, especially in the D.C. area?
A budget increase that is less than requested, is considered a cut in the Liberal mind.
Since this is the Iraq War page...
I thought that there were no WMD's in Iraq???
THX,
Saw the picture of the shed. It sure is something to be proud of. Nicely done. Did you build it from scratch or was it a kit of some kind?
Thanks Dan,
It was build from scratch.
I never would have been able to do it without my Father, who's a retired carpenter.
my Father, who's a retired carpenter.
That always is a big help.
No, basically I was HIS helper.
:-)
Just like you're Scribe's helper?...heh...heh...heh.
Nice job on the shed.
Notice that fold has posted on other threads here this a.m. but refuses to answer Dan on this one.
Just like you're Scribe's helper?
I won't deny it. Anyone who's married knows how it is.
:-)
that's fine, but the original comment didn't involve the population of Iraq...if it did, you would have to figure in the deaths incurred in that population as well. How many Iraqi have died in this war? As big a percentage as in DC?
I got the point.
you are trying to justify the loss of life in Iraq by saying "yea, but look at this over here".
of course we have a war in DC...it's called the War on Drugs. And yes, there are many casualties, just as there continue to be in Iraq.
Casualties like dopers killing dopers?...hand me a tissue.
And you crabs are still trying to justify your lifestyle.
you have no idea what my lifestyle is or is not.
so, the crime that the prohibition creates is of no concern to you?
I see.