fold's vision of the current day military is that, it's great if you enlist, get payed and receive all the benefits, BUT there shouldn't be even the remotest possibility of seeing combat.
I think the military should be used strictly for defense of the country. Where I disagree is with people who say we're not defending our country when we go to Iraq. I think we are.
You know, I was going to give my views on individual posters here. Who I respected, who I didn't respect. But I realized it would just add fuel to the fire. I personally would rather see all this childish crap end. Enough with the personal attacks. Get back to real actual debate instead of the mud-slinging and put-downs.
Torpedo, its not about debating the same. We all have differences here. But what the hell do you plan to accomplish by your personal attacks on people. Realistically all you're accomplishing by it is making yourself look like an ass. We're all different. We all have different opinions and different viewpoints on things. At least be respectful of other people.
Once again I'm the one singled out. Once again nothing is said to crabs, fold or anyone else for that matter for their personal attacks. That's also getting old.
I've asked before that the criticisim be applied equally. It never is.
So if I appear to be an ass to you TMK, tough shit. If you don't like it, put me on your ignore list.
Hey Torpedo, if you're the one "once again" singled out, don't you think that says something? These guys are only saying personal stuff because you're the one that starts the crap. I wish they would just ignore it, but after having seen your posts, its hard to have a good discussion with someone who responds with just childish personal attacks. Yeah, I don't like much of what you write Torpedo. I don't have you on complete ignore, but I basically just skip over what you post.
Hey Torpedo, if you're the one "once again" singled out, don't you think that says something? These guys are only saying personal stuff because you're the one that starts the crap.
I don't believe that is the case. I think both fold and crabs start their share.
Yeah Jethro, I know they do start things up again at times. It's unfortunate.
Torpedo, I stick around mainly for the other threads on here. This is more of a secondary thread I check out, to see if there's any good discussion going on. Lately there hasn't been. I don't go to just happy thoughts and sunshine threads. This thread here isn't a happy sunshiny thread. Yet I come here. Oh, and I'm not trying to play mommy to anyone else. If anyone will play "mommy" around here, it's THX. I trust his judgment. Just giving my opinion and wishing some people would grow up.
I usually skip over it. I'll skim over the beginning. Once I get to the personal attacks part, I just stop and move on to the next post. If its a chain of posts like that, then I just hardly read things. And my observations are from reading this forum for a long time. Not just recent stuff.
Uhh, I'm not liberal. I'm moderate. I don't consider myself a true liberal or a true conservative. Heck, I've argued on the side of Jethro against Crabby with regards to drugs. I guess I just don't see the need to criticize people or put them down for every little thing they post. I don't understand what your intent is with it all.
Hey Jethro, I did some checking up on the drug thread. Seems like there's a lot of personal attacks going on in there. Yeah, Crabs used some personal attacks in posts 1963 and 1961. But those were in response to the personal attacks Torpedo directed at him in 1962 and 1960. Torp had personal attacks in 1948, 1972, 1981 and 1982. Oh, and Bill gave a swipe at you in 1949, but it looks like its in response to your eloquent post of 1944. You also seemed to start off a nice personal attack fest in 1915. I could go on, but I don't want to search the whole forum. That's just a small taste. I know there have been times where I have thought that Fold starts crap with things he posts directed towards you. This post here isn't meant to be personally putting you down. Just evidence that Crabs and Fold aren't the one primarily starting things. You're a fairly decent poster yourself Jethro.
I still think we should have a separate thread where you can all go and bash each other to your hearts' content while the rest of us can have adult discussions.
I am so completely sick and tired of hearing these Bush-hating, left-wing, Saddam-appeasing neo-socialists rant and rave about Halliburton that I could ..... well ... I could just spit. What morons. These are people who hate capitalism, hate the profit motive, and believe that every evil visited on the world is done so in the name of corporate greed. Losers all.
To listen to these irrational cretins you would think that this entire war in Iraq was being fought for one purpose, to enrich Halliburton. It would be not at all surprising if some of these anti-capitalist geeks believed that Bush arranged for those airplanes to fly into the World Trade Towers for that one purpose .. enriching Halliburton.
Try this experiment. The next time you hear some liberal parrot squawk about Halliburton just ask them one simple question. "Well, pal --- since you're such an expert on Halliburton, why don't you tell me just what it is that Halliburton does? Name one product or one service that Halliburton provides."
Don't hold your breath waiting for cogent answer.
Part of the perceived evil that is Halliburton is the fact that Dick Cheney once ran the company. As everyone knows, we should strive mightily to avoid ever placing anyone with the know-how and ability to run a multi-million dollar corporation in a position of responsibility in the political realm. Actually making a success of yourself in the private sector disqualifies you for public service, while not having any actual discernable private sector job skills is the supreme qualification for public service.
So ... let's get to the bottom of this. Did Bush or Cheney do something underhanded or illegal in handing some rather lucrative contracts to Halliburton for infrastructure and other work in Iraq?
We'll start with another question you can ask your bedwetting leftist friends. Ask them if they've ever heard of LOGCAP. They will tell you that they don't know what that is. You won't be at all surprised. LOGCAP is the Logistics Civil Augmentation Program created by the United States Army. It is a program that uses a competitive bidding process to award a contract to a corporation to be on call to provide whatever services the Army might need ... right then. Some brilliant thinkers in the Army came to the conclusion that it might not be such a swell idea to screw around with competitive bidding processes for logistics and other services during wartime. Imagine that.
Halliburton won the competitive bidding process for LOGCAP in 1992. They then lost that bidding process five years later in 1997. In spite of the fact that Halliburton no longer held the LOGCAP contract, Bill Clinton went ahead and awarded a no-bid contract to Halliburton to do some work in the Balkans supporting U.S. peacekeeping actions. Odd, isn't it. The same people who are screaming about Halliburton right now had absolutely nothing .. nada .. nunca .. not one thing to say about Halliburton when it was the Clinton Administration that was handing out contracts .. with no bidding, by the way. You might also be interested in knowing that Al Gore was quite a fan of Halliburton. Gore's reinventing government panel had some very complimentary things to say about Halliburton and the services it provides to the U.S. government. Ahhh ... but what does Al Gore know, right?
That brings us to 2001. It's time for bidding on the LOGCAP contract again. Halliburton is right in there, and wins the bid. This means that at the time of the Iraq War Halliburton had the bid for providing logistical and other services to the U.S. government. They were the go-to company. So, along comes the U.S. Army with a fat contract for Halliburton to put out oil-well fires in Iraq and all hell breaks loose. To the left this is all the proof you needed to show that this whole war was about oil and enriching Bush pals.
Recap: Clinton awards no-bid contract to Halliburton at a time when Halliburton did not hold the LOGCAP contract. Bush awards contract to Halliburton at a time when Halliburton DID hold the LOGCAP contract.
So ... one last question for your mindless leftist friends. Well .. make that two questions. Ask them if Clinton went into the Balkans to enrich Halliburton. They'll say no. Then ask them if Bush went to Iraq to enrich Halliburton. They'll say yes. At this point do all that you can to have your friend institutionalized .. for they are beyond all help.
Oh Torpedo, don't flatter yourself. I reread posts in the drug thread regarding something Jethro said, not something you said. I was looking more what Crabby and Fold said, but also noting what you and Jethro posted. Just facts to back up my assertion. I'm glad that you still have your mother, and I hope you have a good relationship with her. I am by no means trying to take over her place, as much as you may misinterpret my actions. Just trying to make this place better, and discussing based on facts.
IF you would have researched a little further TMK, you would have found where crabs voiced his approval on taking children's urine and giving/selling it to drug offenders so that they can beat a u.a. that will eventually be given to them by their probation/parole agent.
After that, everything crab's gets, is deserving.
Also, notice that when a liberal is confronted with the truth or facts, it is almost certainly labeled a personal attack.
Torp, I did see that part. His view on that is definitely different. I'm curious as to why he thought that was okay, why he felt that it wasn't bad. I find it interesting that you apparently decided to just personally attack him after that, instead of debating on why doing such a thing is good or bad. When I was looking back at the posts, I wasn't looking at truth/facts being personal attacks. I was looking at the stuff like calling people sh**heads, dopers, crap like that. Things that really had no relevance to an argument, no truth or fact to them, just negative emotion.
He DESERVED to be personally attacked. That is child abuse...period! Someone who would do that to a child, or approve of it, is the lowest form of filth. After that, he has zero credibilty about anything.
It deserves no discussion whatsoever!
BTW, crabs will either ignore the above like he did the last time OR back off from it with some sort of roundabout spin.
Crabby didn't see it as child abuse apparently. Instead of making fun of him and putting him down, why not try to talk to him about things, make him see why you think it's child abuse? If it's so bad that he thinks that way, you calling him names isn't going to change it. Why not try to reason with him, discuss things with him?
I wouldn't hold your breath TMK. This fued has been going on longer than the Hatfields and McCoys. Some people are just not meant to get along.
I would honestly love to meet everyone in here together as a group for a round of drinks and face to face discussion. Hell I'd even offer to buy the first round, it would be worth every penny!
I still think we should have a separate thread where you can all go and bash each other to your hearts' content while the rest of us can have adult discussions.
I dunno, I understand that was tried at the Pioneer Press for a little while, and it ended up blowing up in their face.
fold's vision of the current day military is that, it's great if you enlist, get payed and receive all the benefits, BUT there shouldn't be even the remotest possibility of seeing combat.
I think the military should be used strictly for defense of the country. Where I disagree is with people who say we're not defending our country when we go to Iraq. I think we are.
I know no one has admitted it yet but this war will be far worse than WW2 ever was.
Why don't you two just put each other on your ignore list?
Luv's wife was in a car accident. That's why he's not here, fold.
Rick is the one who left. JT hurt his feelings. Remember now?...moron.
Fold is the one who has promised to put me on his ignore list. Many times in fact.
I wish he would. But since he likes me, he won't.
I like to read what fold posts. It provides me with comic relief.
You know, I was going to give my views on individual posters here. Who I respected, who I didn't respect. But I realized it would just add fuel to the fire. I personally would rather see all this childish crap end. Enough with the personal attacks. Get back to real actual debate instead of the mud-slinging and put-downs.
Well, if we all debated the same, wouldn't this be a boring place.
TMK wasn't asking that we all debate the same...just to stop with all the personal crap.
I agree this 2 year old crap is getting old fast.
Torpedo, its not about debating the same. We all have differences here. But what the hell do you plan to accomplish by your personal attacks on people. Realistically all you're accomplishing by it is making yourself look like an ass. We're all different. We all have different opinions and different viewpoints on things. At least be respectful of other people.
At least this time last year military recrutment was above target: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPentagon.asp?Page=\Pentagon\archive\200212\PEN20021202a.html
Once again I'm the one singled out. Once again nothing is said to crabs, fold or anyone else for that matter for their personal attacks. That's also getting old.
I've asked before that the criticisim be applied equally. It never is.
So if I appear to be an ass to you TMK, tough shit. If you don't like it, put me on your ignore list.
Hey Torpedo, if you're the one "once again" singled out, don't you think that says something? These guys are only saying personal stuff because you're the one that starts the crap. I wish they would just ignore it, but after having seen your posts, its hard to have a good discussion with someone who responds with just childish personal attacks. Yeah, I don't like much of what you write Torpedo. I don't have you on complete ignore, but I basically just skip over what you post.
Hey Torpedo, if you're the one "once again" singled out, don't you think that says something? These guys are only saying personal stuff because you're the one that starts the crap.
I don't believe that is the case. I think both fold and crabs start their share.
Well it can't be all that bad if you're sticking around, eh TMK?
Stick to your happy thoughts and sunshine threads.
Now go run along and play mommy to someone else.
And have a wonderful day.
Yeah Jethro, I know they do start things up again at times. It's unfortunate.
Torpedo, I stick around mainly for the other threads on here. This is more of a secondary thread I check out, to see if there's any good discussion going on. Lately there hasn't been. I don't go to just happy thoughts and sunshine threads. This thread here isn't a happy sunshiny thread. Yet I come here. Oh, and I'm not trying to play mommy to anyone else. If anyone will play "mommy" around here, it's THX. I trust his judgment. Just giving my opinion and wishing some people would grow up.
Have yourself a nice day and happy holidays
If you skip over what I post TMK, you have no idea what I'm saying. Therefore, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I usually skip over it. I'll skim over the beginning. Once I get to the personal attacks part, I just stop and move on to the next post. If its a chain of posts like that, then I just hardly read things. And my observations are from reading this forum for a long time. Not just recent stuff.
It's just your basic, everyday, liberal, hypocritical, bullshit Jethro.
They can't bring themselves to criticize each other.
fold whined about me to JT a few days ago. JT told him to stick it, in so many words.
So you see TMK, my mommy says it's okay.
Donate $$ for care packages for our troops.
http://www.usocares.org/home.htm
Uhh, I'm not liberal. I'm moderate. I don't consider myself a true liberal or a true conservative. Heck, I've argued on the side of Jethro against Crabby with regards to drugs. I guess I just don't see the need to criticize people or put them down for every little thing they post. I don't understand what your intent is with it all.
So you see TMK, my mommy says it's okay.
For the record I don't personally say it's ok, but as moderator of these threads I allow it.
I admit, I'm guilty of going there myself sometimes, but I'd rather stick to the topic at hand rather than get into the personal shit.
Ok, I stand corrected on the liberal part.
But the failure to address the hypocrisy and criticism parts, speaks volumes.
I will stand correct there.
hey JT you should modify the site name to: Pioneer Press Water Cooler Refugee Camp-not a happy sunshiny place!
Happy Holidays - Now Fuck Off
;-)
Does Hallmark carry that card CM?
of personal attacks?
nope...sorry. If you really think so, please show me an example.
I don't start personal attacks. I spend a lot of time defending myself from them around here though.
nope...sorry. If you really think so, please show me an example.
Yes you do. I am sorry that you are unable to recognize it.
nope, that's not an example.
find an example.
I generally don't like to talk about the other posters at all, but around here so much personal shit is thrown around it's very hard to avoid.
Hey Jethro, I did some checking up on the drug thread. Seems like there's a lot of personal attacks going on in there. Yeah, Crabs used some personal attacks in posts 1963 and 1961. But those were in response to the personal attacks Torpedo directed at him in 1962 and 1960. Torp had personal attacks in 1948, 1972, 1981 and 1982. Oh, and Bill gave a swipe at you in 1949, but it looks like its in response to your eloquent post of 1944. You also seemed to start off a nice personal attack fest in 1915. I could go on, but I don't want to search the whole forum. That's just a small taste. I know there have been times where I have thought that Fold starts crap with things he posts directed towards you. This post here isn't meant to be personally putting you down. Just evidence that Crabs and Fold aren't the one primarily starting things. You're a fairly decent poster yourself Jethro.
This post here isn't meant to be personally putting you down.
That's too bad. A missed opportunity to get into it with you!
You're a fairly decent poster yourself Jethro.
What 'til you see my calendar!
I still think we should have a separate thread where you can all go and bash each other to your hearts' content while the rest of us can have adult discussions.
its no fun unless others are watching!!!!!!
I know, and that's why you do it. Kinda childish, isn't it?
HALLIBURTON .. THE REAL STORY
I am so completely sick and tired of hearing these Bush-hating, left-wing, Saddam-appeasing neo-socialists rant and rave about Halliburton that I could ..... well ... I could just spit. What morons. These are people who hate capitalism, hate the profit motive, and believe that every evil visited on the world is done so in the name of corporate greed. Losers all.
To listen to these irrational cretins you would think that this entire war in Iraq was being fought for one purpose, to enrich Halliburton. It would be not at all surprising if some of these anti-capitalist geeks believed that Bush arranged for those airplanes to fly into the World Trade Towers for that one purpose .. enriching Halliburton.
Try this experiment. The next time you hear some liberal parrot squawk about Halliburton just ask them one simple question. "Well, pal --- since you're such an expert on Halliburton, why don't you tell me just what it is that Halliburton does? Name one product or one service that Halliburton provides."
Don't hold your breath waiting for cogent answer.
Part of the perceived evil that is Halliburton is the fact that Dick Cheney once ran the company. As everyone knows, we should strive mightily to avoid ever placing anyone with the know-how and ability to run a multi-million dollar corporation in a position of responsibility in the political realm. Actually making a success of yourself in the private sector disqualifies you for public service, while not having any actual discernable private sector job skills is the supreme qualification for public service.
So ... let's get to the bottom of this. Did Bush or Cheney do something underhanded or illegal in handing some rather lucrative contracts to Halliburton for infrastructure and other work in Iraq?
We'll start with another question you can ask your bedwetting leftist friends. Ask them if they've ever heard of LOGCAP. They will tell you that they don't know what that is. You won't be at all surprised. LOGCAP is the Logistics Civil Augmentation Program created by the United States Army. It is a program that uses a competitive bidding process to award a contract to a corporation to be on call to provide whatever services the Army might need ... right then. Some brilliant thinkers in the Army came to the conclusion that it might not be such a swell idea to screw around with competitive bidding processes for logistics and other services during wartime. Imagine that.
Halliburton won the competitive bidding process for LOGCAP in 1992. They then lost that bidding process five years later in 1997. In spite of the fact that Halliburton no longer held the LOGCAP contract, Bill Clinton went ahead and awarded a no-bid contract to Halliburton to do some work in the Balkans supporting U.S. peacekeeping actions. Odd, isn't it. The same people who are screaming about Halliburton right now had absolutely nothing .. nada .. nunca .. not one thing to say about Halliburton when it was the Clinton Administration that was handing out contracts .. with no bidding, by the way. You might also be interested in knowing that Al Gore was quite a fan of Halliburton. Gore's reinventing government panel had some very complimentary things to say about Halliburton and the services it provides to the U.S. government. Ahhh ... but what does Al Gore know, right?
That brings us to 2001. It's time for bidding on the LOGCAP contract again. Halliburton is right in there, and wins the bid. This means that at the time of the Iraq War Halliburton had the bid for providing logistical and other services to the U.S. government. They were the go-to company. So, along comes the U.S. Army with a fat contract for Halliburton to put out oil-well fires in Iraq and all hell breaks loose. To the left this is all the proof you needed to show that this whole war was about oil and enriching Bush pals.
Recap: Clinton awards no-bid contract to Halliburton at a time when Halliburton did not hold the LOGCAP contract. Bush awards contract to Halliburton at a time when Halliburton DID hold the LOGCAP contract.
So ... one last question for your mindless leftist friends. Well .. make that two questions. Ask them if Clinton went into the Balkans to enrich Halliburton. They'll say no. Then ask them if Bush went to Iraq to enrich Halliburton. They'll say yes. At this point do all that you can to have your friend institutionalized .. for they are beyond all help.
You may now carry on!
Thanks for posting that, Wolvie. What was the source? I read something similar in National Review a few months ago.
I got that from Neal Boortz. It's from his Dec. 1st posting.
Good stuff Wolvie.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, TMK reading my posts again. I thought I was skipped over? Now you're taking time to go back and find them? WOW!
There's no need to do that TMK. I already have a mother.
Here's the National Review article -- long but interesting.
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp
Oh Torpedo, don't flatter yourself. I reread posts in the drug thread regarding something Jethro said, not something you said. I was looking more what Crabby and Fold said, but also noting what you and Jethro posted. Just facts to back up my assertion. I'm glad that you still have your mother, and I hope you have a good relationship with her. I am by no means trying to take over her place, as much as you may misinterpret my actions. Just trying to make this place better, and discussing based on facts.
IF you would have researched a little further TMK, you would have found where crabs voiced his approval on taking children's urine and giving/selling it to drug offenders so that they can beat a u.a. that will eventually be given to them by their probation/parole agent.
After that, everything crab's gets, is deserving.
Also, notice that when a liberal is confronted with the truth or facts, it is almost certainly labeled a personal attack.
Torp, I did see that part. His view on that is definitely different. I'm curious as to why he thought that was okay, why he felt that it wasn't bad. I find it interesting that you apparently decided to just personally attack him after that, instead of debating on why doing such a thing is good or bad. When I was looking back at the posts, I wasn't looking at truth/facts being personal attacks. I was looking at the stuff like calling people sh**heads, dopers, crap like that. Things that really had no relevance to an argument, no truth or fact to them, just negative emotion.
He DESERVED to be personally attacked. That is child abuse...period! Someone who would do that to a child, or approve of it, is the lowest form of filth. After that, he has zero credibilty about anything.
It deserves no discussion whatsoever!
BTW, crabs will either ignore the above like he did the last time OR back off from it with some sort of roundabout spin.
Crabby didn't see it as child abuse apparently. Instead of making fun of him and putting him down, why not try to talk to him about things, make him see why you think it's child abuse? If it's so bad that he thinks that way, you calling him names isn't going to change it. Why not try to reason with him, discuss things with him?
Reason with Crabby? Good luck!
I wouldn't hold your breath TMK. This fued has been going on longer than the Hatfields and McCoys. Some people are just not meant to get along.
I would honestly love to meet everyone in here together as a group for a round of drinks and face to face discussion. Hell I'd even offer to buy the first round, it would be worth every penny!
I still think we should have a separate thread where you can all go and bash each other to your hearts' content while the rest of us can have adult discussions.
I dunno, I understand that was tried at the Pioneer Press for a little while, and it ended up blowing up in their face.
Exactly, the "Take it outside board", ended up on all the other boards. If I have a vote, I say no.