CSC, I've debated for a while with Crabby on the drug topic. I know it can go on for a while. I still think its better to get an understanding and try to discuss things with him than just call him names and give up on him.
I think it would be really interesting people here getting together for drinks, but I would think we'd need to make sure people didn't get too drunk. Especially with MN being a conceal and carry state. ;)
As far as having a personal attack board, I think its a bad idea. I guess I would just rather we try and be mature and keep things focused on discussion and debate, not personal attacks.
I think it would be really interesting people here getting together for drinks, but I would think we'd need to make sure people didn't get too drunk. Especially with MN being a conceal and carry state. ;)
I've met many from the PP political threads in person (not counting the medallion hunters). What's strange is, I've only met the ones that I'd consider "Liberal" and found them all quite enjoyable.
THX, I was only joking around with the conceal and carry comment. I would like to think that if people got together in person, we could put differences aside and enjoy food and drink together.
IF you would have researched a little further TMK, you would have found where crabs voiced his approval on taking children's urine and giving/selling it to drug offenders so that they can beat a u.a. that will eventually be given to them by their probation/parole agent.
if you have researched a little further TMK, you would have found where I have never voiced any approval of drug laws, much less such a draconian practice as testing someone urine. Since I don't approval of these laws and these laws are the ONLY reason for the urine testing in the first place, I couldn't possibly approve of someone breaking a law I don't approve of in the first place.
So no...I don't approve of forcing people by law into a situation where they may try to collect their child's pee to beat some bullshit drug test. Besides, I don't consider the simple collection of one's own child's urine in and of itself child abuse. To say it is is sky high rhetoric and nothing more.
the the people in power support the idea that the State has some sort of right to people's bodily fluids does not bode well for freedom, regardless of how much they wave that flag.
the right to of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated
You are correct. Peeing is not fraud. Having your child provide a sample for you and pawning it off as your own is.
"the right to of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" - Crabs
This is and has always been true. You DO NOT need to submit to a blood or urine test. However, you may lose your job, driver's license, or enrolment in school. All of which are NOT a right of the people. There are NO laws requiring you to submit to these tests to be a citizen of this country.
My daughter and I caught a few minutes of a show called "Rock me baby". It's a stupid show about a younger couple that have a newborn.
In the show tonight the father and his wife were in the process of getting life insurance for themselves.
So, the insurance guy is there to get a urine sample from them both.
The father comes out with his urine sample and the insurance guy says something to the effect that they test for drugs.
Well, the father freaks, drops it on the floor in front of the insurance guy, and when the insurance guy goes to clean himself, the father attempts to get the baby to urinate in his cup.
Yeah, this isn't the place for discussion here. I just like that we seem to be getting back to discussion here, not the personal attacks. Seems like there is more activity here at the DISCUSSION boards.
the drug laws can create some very bizzare situations
This situation had nothing to do with drug laws. It's a business/financial/actuarial issue. Do you think insurance companies are going to stop testing for drugs if drugs become legal?
I guess he may have been looking for the drug red wine, since that should reduce the premium for his life insurance.
I believe if alcohol showed up in his blood, it would count against him as much as marijuana.
BTW, does not being a "nice father" automatically translate into "child abuse" for you?
No.
I just found it interesting that my 16 year old daughter saw what you can't seem to see. Which is that you shouldn't use your kids like that.
That being said, I will have to change my stance on this issue. Although I think it wrong, I can't compare mooching a urine sample from your kid to beating the hell out of them.
I believe if alcohol showed up in his blood, it would count against him as much as marijuana.
and yet studies are showing that moderate use of red wine can prolong one's life.
and while a private insurance company can in theory make any sort of demand it likes, if it wasn't illegal, I doubt that someone would freak out when asked to be tested for it.
I mean, if the guy was a chronic cheeseburger consumer, do you think he's going to try to use his child to conceal his blood pressure? The guy freaked because of the laws, not the actuarial charts.
crabs wrote: drugs aren't a "passion" of mine. Freedom is.
That would be fine if you understood what is freedom. You don't. You believe freedom is the ability to do what you want when you want. That is anarchy, not freedom.
No matter really, except that if you will recall, a couple years ago I offered to buy Jethro Lunch, twice, and he dismissed it out-of-hand, as a way for me to find out who he is and use that information to somehow hurt him...? True Story. Remember?
Apparently you don't remember correctly. I'll meet you for lunch sometime, fold. But that will be hard if you are in Florida because I ain't. I think I did tell you I would take a stroll around Como Lake with you but then you changed your story about actually going there.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill
...served in Congress for 30 years and sacrifices his life for his country as a career "Garbage" is certainly innocent enough...
I call it like I see it. As I said before, his statements weren't just an off the cuff remark. He honestly believes that bullshit that he was spewing. That makes him garbage in my book.
To me, you call any Veteran "Garbage", you call them ALL Garbage.
Truth is, not all veterans are Saints. Many of them are downright nasty people.
You hold yourself up as being a good Christian, so much so that you send your kids to a Christian school...
Irrelevant
because he spoke out against the collateral damage caused by our bombing?
If you read the quote, he didn't just speak out against collateral damage.
CSC, I've debated for a while with Crabby on the drug topic. I know it can go on for a while. I still think its better to get an understanding and try to discuss things with him than just call him names and give up on him.
I think it would be really interesting people here getting together for drinks, but I would think we'd need to make sure people didn't get too drunk. Especially with MN being a conceal and carry state. ;)
As far as having a personal attack board, I think its a bad idea. I guess I would just rather we try and be mature and keep things focused on discussion and debate, not personal attacks.
it ended up blowing up in their face.
Ah, the good old days. ;)
And yes, CSC, some of these fueds have gone on for many years.
I think it would be really interesting people here getting together for drinks, but I would think we'd need to make sure people didn't get too drunk. Especially with MN being a conceal and carry state. ;)
I've met many from the PP political threads in person (not counting the medallion hunters). What's strange is, I've only met the ones that I'd consider "Liberal" and found them all quite enjoyable.
THX, I was only joking around with the conceal and carry comment. I would like to think that if people got together in person, we could put differences aside and enjoy food and drink together.
I would like to think that if people got together in person, we could put differences aside and enjoy food and drink together.
No... I plan on having my Glock with me.
:-)
Dude, I hope I don't find the medallion with you around. I'll be in the hospital and you'll have the thing on your mantle ;)
What are you saying, TMK?
I would only use it to defend myself. There's no honor in getting the puck that way.
:-)
What the heck do you need it to defend yourself for? Nobody would mess with you. Not with your wife. ;)
Not with your wife. ;)
Yeah, I'd be more worried about her than his Glock anyway. ;-)
collecting your child's urine is child abuse?
nonsense.
and I suppose that when you kid gets a drug test at school and they collect their urine, you will forget all about it being child abuse.
if you have researched a little further TMK, you would have found where I have never voiced any approval of drug laws, much less such a draconian practice as testing someone urine. Since I don't approval of these laws and these laws are the ONLY reason for the urine testing in the first place, I couldn't possibly approve of someone breaking a law I don't approve of in the first place.
So no...I don't approve of forcing people by law into a situation where they may try to collect their child's pee to beat some bullshit drug test. Besides, I don't consider the simple collection of one's own child's urine in and of itself child abuse. To say it is is sky high rhetoric and nothing more.
collecting your child's urine is child abuse?
I think using your kid like that is a form of child abuse.
What kind of low-life would do something like that anyway?
"Here Susie, pee in this cup for Mommy".
I told ya TMK.
I think "child abuse" is an overreaction. There must be a better term for it. It's hardly in the same league with beating or starving.
Then you have a myopic view of child abuse Muskwa.
I don't think so. I just don't like to see people over-hype things. Let's keep a little perspective.
How is telling Susie to commit an act of fraud not child abuse?
Susie isn't commiting an act of fraud.
Susie is urinating. People urinate.
the child abuse (if that's what you want to call it) is children having their parents made to provide urine in the first place.
the child abuse is the laws that create a criminal underground.
peeing isn't fraud.
the drug laws are the problem here, not those who refuse to have their privacy violated by unjust law.
to force someone by law to submit their urine.
you drug law supporters should be ashamed of yourself.
you call taking your child's urine "child abuse" but you are okay with the State taking citizens' urine?
you have a disconnect there.
the the people in power support the idea that the State has some sort of right to people's bodily fluids does not bode well for freedom, regardless of how much they wave that flag.
the right to of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated
"peeing isn't fraud." - Crabs
You are correct. Peeing is not fraud. Having your child provide a sample for you and pawning it off as your own is.
"the right to of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" - Crabs
This is and has always been true. You DO NOT need to submit to a blood or urine test. However, you may lose your job, driver's license, or enrolment in school. All of which are NOT a right of the people. There are NO laws requiring you to submit to these tests to be a citizen of this country.
I told ya TMK.
JT, where's your desk!
I'm still trying to figure out why or how illegal drugs can be a life's passion. To hell with who they will effect directly or indirectly.
not for the child it's not
you might want to try figuring out why they are illegal in the first place.
drugs aren't a "passion" of mine. Freedom is.
Funny thing happened tonight.
My daughter and I caught a few minutes of a show called "Rock me baby". It's a stupid show about a younger couple that have a newborn.
In the show tonight the father and his wife were in the process of getting life insurance for themselves.
So, the insurance guy is there to get a urine sample from them both.
The father comes out with his urine sample and the insurance guy says something to the effect that they test for drugs.
Well, the father freaks, drops it on the floor in front of the insurance guy, and when the insurance guy goes to clean himself, the father attempts to get the baby to urinate in his cup.
I found it disgusting.
Even more interesting was my daughters reaction.
Her exact words were "Nice father".
the drug laws can create some very bizzare situations
I guess he may have been looking for the drug red wine, since that should reduce the premium for his life insurance.
BTW, does not being a "nice father" automatically translate into "child abuse" for you?
If you call using drugs freedom I have a bridge I would like to sell you, drug use is Slavery end of story.
the previous post that were deleted were moved to the drug thead here...
crabgrass "The "War on Drugs"" 12/3/03 5:03am
the discussion was way off-thread here.
sorry.
Yeah, this isn't the place for discussion here. I just like that we seem to be getting back to discussion here, not the personal attacks. Seems like there is more activity here at the DISCUSSION boards.
the drug laws can create some very bizzare situations
This situation had nothing to do with drug laws. It's a business/financial/actuarial issue. Do you think insurance companies are going to stop testing for drugs if drugs become legal?
I guess he may have been looking for the drug red wine, since that should reduce the premium for his life insurance.
I believe if alcohol showed up in his blood, it would count against him as much as marijuana.
BTW, does not being a "nice father" automatically translate into "child abuse" for you?
No.
I just found it interesting that my 16 year old daughter saw what you can't seem to see. Which is that you shouldn't use your kids like that.
That being said, I will have to change my stance on this issue. Although I think it wrong, I can't compare mooching a urine sample from your kid to beating the hell out of them.
You know, I had a good time when we met too THX, and you are kinda right, in that most of us who were there are 'Liberals', but not all.
Who there wasn't Liberal, except for me? Tia, Muffin, Mindbomb, Frenchy, You.... All Liberal! :-) Did I miss anybody?
....except that if you will recall, a couple years ago I offered to buy Jethro Lunch, twice, and he dismissed it out-of-hand,
I agree. I think Jethro is too paranoid. Maybe he's got his reasons, but I'd love to meet him too. I just don't see it happening.
and yet studies are showing that moderate use of red wine can prolong one's life.
and while a private insurance company can in theory make any sort of demand it likes, if it wasn't illegal, I doubt that someone would freak out when asked to be tested for it.
I mean, if the guy was a chronic cheeseburger consumer, do you think he's going to try to use his child to conceal his blood pressure? The guy freaked because of the laws, not the actuarial charts.
crabs wrote: drugs aren't a "passion" of mine. Freedom is.
That would be fine if you understood what is freedom. You don't. You believe freedom is the ability to do what you want when you want. That is anarchy, not freedom.
No matter really, except that if you will recall, a couple years ago I offered to buy Jethro Lunch, twice, and he dismissed it out-of-hand, as a way for me to find out who he is and use that information to somehow hurt him...? True Story. Remember?
Apparently you don't remember correctly. I'll meet you for lunch sometime, fold. But that will be hard if you are in Florida because I ain't. I think I did tell you I would take a stroll around Como Lake with you but then you changed your story about actually going there.
When he comes to Mn. to kill me jethro, you can meet him for lunch then.
LOL!!!
fold the victim!!!
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, are you being abused poor little foldy?
Maybe you should take your little red ball and go home. Or should I send you a box of puffs?
Actually, I thought Muffin, aka this and that, was more of a Conservative, but maybe you are right.
No, she is not Conservative.
Told You, didn't I Muskwa?
Yup, I expected it.
Jethro, here's your chance.
fold: I will be walking Como, tomorrow morning, at 8 a.m.
Now the only question is...What will you be wearing, Jethro?
Sorry, but I will not be in St. Paul tomorrow. How long are you staying in town?
He won't be anywhere near Mn. tomorrow jethro.
I can't post anywhere without fold following me like a whipped puppy.
Hurling insults again. How childish fold. You can do better.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill
I know the feeling
you don't appear to be able to do better that hurling insults, however.
...served in Congress for 30 years and sacrifices his life for his country as a career "Garbage" is certainly innocent enough...
I call it like I see it. As I said before, his statements weren't just an off the cuff remark. He honestly believes that bullshit that he was spewing. That makes him garbage in my book.
To me, you call any Veteran "Garbage", you call them ALL Garbage.
Truth is, not all veterans are Saints. Many of them are downright nasty people.
You hold yourself up as being a good Christian, so much so that you send your kids to a Christian school...
Irrelevant
because he spoke out against the collateral damage caused by our bombing?
If you read the quote, he didn't just speak out against collateral damage.
fold, how long are you going to be in Minnesota?