If you are eluding to the crusades, they were Christian in name only. They were not Christ like.
no desire to "convert" others?
Sure, people are going to try to convert others to what they believe is a better way. If you see someone standing on a train track with a train coming, you will try to get that person off.
Apparently your short term memory is shot since you were the one who said "do what?", I quoted you and now you are trying to correct me for saying it.
my short term memory is fine. You said "apparently you do", in response to my asking "who said it bothered me?" I asked "do what?" since "apparently you do" makes no sense as a response to the question "who said it bothered me?"
do you do your praying in a closet like your book tells you to?
Why?
why not?
How? If, as you once claimed here, everyone has killed, raped, etc., as someone else or something else at some time else, how has that effected you?
in every way at one point or the other.
the "how" isn't the crux of it...the "when" is what to ask. the "when" opens up all kinds of things for you.
That is why I am questioning what you say.
you aren't questioning what I say. You have already decided what you think. You are trying to get what I say to fit with your beliefs.
if you were questioning it, you wouldn't need to pray for my soul. That you are praying for my soul tells me that you have already decided you know what I think.
Such hostility weakens any point you might be trying to make.
I might point out Rick, that your belief threatens me with the eternal fires of hell if I don't agree with it....talk about your "hostility"
you have a lot of nerve calling me hostile while claiming a belief that would throw me into a lake of fire if I don't subscribe.
you may think I'm hostile, but I promise you that I don't subscribe to any belief that says that you will be damned to eternal torment if you don't believe it too.
Christians aren't trying to insure that we have everyone's children pledge allegiance to their God in our schools?
Who has done this?
You win. When I quote you from now on I guess I will have to change the syntex of the sentence, by praying for your soul people are actually saying that they are going to put a hex on you, not being able to keep up from one post to the next is not a sign of short term memory problems, a few 2 or 3 word sentences are all that is needed to change a theory to fact, etc.
by praying for your soul people are actually saying that they are going to put a hex on you
what's the difference?
Well, I'm a Christain, and I want my kid to say the pledge of allegiance. You can label that a Christian conspiracy if you wish.
you want them to say it in a public school as a group as part of the curriculum where it will be expected that everyone should say it.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe. You don't want them to understand that it's one nation, under many different ideas of what and who "God" may or may not be. Can another kid get up and say that your kid's country is "under Satan" every day in front of your kid and under the direction of your kid's teacher?
Besides, that's a local issue, not a federal issue. Your argument of "Separation of Church & State" is irrelevant.
The Constitution applies to all states.
I'm starting to believe we should just get rid of "public" schools, then it won't be an issue for you or anyone else.
so, you don't think everyone should get an education?
I don't think that "shame" is something you have for someone else. To me, it's a personal thing. I'm embarrassed to be a white male when other white males act in ways they should be ashamed of though.
I try my best not to emulate some of the more shameful aspects others of my type have displayed over history though.
Are you ashamed of...say...the way your white male ancestors owned human beings?
It isn't like you believe we have souls to worry about.
the only reason you worry about your soul is because Christianity has blackmailed you into believing that if you don't, you will be tortured after you die.
Seems to me that such a belief is conducive to social stability.
" they either converted the natives to Christianity or they killed them."
I think it was more like, "convert, and you stand a good chance of prospering. If you don't we're not responisble for what happens to you."
I think Spain and Portugal probably carried on like that. Subsequent, colonizaiton I.e. England and France, was more tolerant of other religions. Their colonization was more of a business venture. By the 19th Century in Asia people were pretty much free to practice whatever religion they wanted.,
Seems to me that such a belief is conducive to social stability.
then so is the Mafia. So is a totalitarian regime. "Behave this way or else"...yes, that will make for a stable society. Stability by threat. Great.
I think it was more like, "convert, and you stand a good chance of prospering. If you don't we're not responisble for what happens to you."
who are you to decide what "prospering" means to another culture?
Their colonization was more of a business venture.
you mean like "believe what we believe and you will prosper, don't and we will take your land and prosper from it ourselves"? That kind of business venture?
I still don't understand your hostility.
You think the idea of "prosper in the way we think you should or you may perish" isn't hostile?
So, no Christians are setting up Christian churches in Iraq right now? No Christians are trying to spread their beliefs anywhere?
There is nothing wrong with that if that is happening.
you may think I'm hostile, but I promise you that I don't subscribe to any belief that says that you will be damned to eternal torment if you don't believe it too.
Well, crabs, what will you do if it turns out to be true?
Well, crabs, what will you do if it turns out to be true?
it may be true that those who believe in the Bible are the ones who will be forever tormented in hell.
what are you gonna do if that turns out to be true?
what if it turns out that it's a test to see if you can be sold this idea of a Biblical God and those who buy into it lose their souls forever? What will you do?
What if it turns out that the Moslims are right?
What if it turns out that the Buddists are right?
What if you fin yourself answering to Zues on Mt. Olympus?
What if we are an experiment created by aliens to see if we will believe this "book" and those who do go into their "zoo"?
I've got news for you....it IS true, just not here and now for me.
If it IS true here and now for me, than God created me to be this way...so what's to worry?
The one thing I'm quite sure of is that things keeps changing.
It's not a cosmic game of musical chairs where everything stops and you have to be sitting on the correct religious chair if you want to end up okay.
you want them to say it in a public school as a group as part of the curriculum where it will be expected that everyone should say it.
Yes. That should be a choice of the people that send their children to the school. They certainly force other issues on our children.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe. You don't want them to understand that it's one nation, under many different ideas of what and who "God" may or may not be. Can another kid get up and say that your kid's country is "under Satan" every day in front of your kid and under the direction of your kid's teacher? You are one intolerant jackass. Again with the Satan crap. That wouldn't happen and if it did it should be a matter for the parents not the federal governmnet.
Besides, that's a local issue, not a federal issue. Your argument of "Separation of Church & State" is irrelevant.
The Constitution applies to all states. The Constituion has been bastardized by people like you. You stupid shit.
I'm starting to believe we should just get rid of "public" schools, then it won't be an issue for you or anyone else.
so, you don't think everyone should get an education?
They can get an education it just wouldn't have to be controlled by the government.
I don't think that "shame" is something you have for someone else. To me, it's a personal thing. I'm embarrassed to be a white male when other white males act in ways they should be ashamed of though.
Why make it a racial or gender issue? Can't you see people as individuals?
Except that I think you're needlessy hostile to the point of being obsessed
I rarely ever think of it unless someone says something like my country is Judeo-Christian....then I say what I think of it.
Otherwise, it's not something I really ever have to think about much.
Things like Bush wanting to find ways to give my tax money to churches sorta forces me into having to consider it from time to time, but I'm certainly not obsessed.
what if it turns out that it's a test to see if you can be sold this idea of a Biblical God and those who buy into it lose their souls forever? What will you do?
That is the beauty of faith, crabs, I know that won't happen.
I've got news for you....it IS true, just not here and now for me. What is true?
If it IS true here and now for me, than God created me to be this way...so what's to worry? You apparently don't have any idea what the Bible teaches do you? God made you with free will. You have decided to reject Him. Well that is your choice, but don't fool yourself with the silly notion that you don't have anything to worry about.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...
Yes, I want my kids to learn of and know God. What a horrible person I must be.
you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe.
No I don't. I don't care what you do or what you do with your kids. I just care about my kids.
You don't want them to understand that it's one nation, under many different ideas of what and who "God" may or may not be.
My kids already understand that. You think only white Catholic kids attend my kids school? I've already told you what a diverse neighborhood I live in.
Can another kid get up and say that your kid's country is "under Satan" every day in front of your kid and under the direction of your kid's teacher?
Sure, if the community wishes for such a thing. I just wouldn't send my kids to that school, and most likely wouldn't live in that community.
The Constitution applies to all states.
It's not expressly stated in the Constitution.
so, you don't think everyone should get an education?
I think everyone should get an education, but unlike you I believe parents should have a choice on said education.
so, if enough people want it, you get to indoctrinate everyone's kids toward your beliefs by means of the public schools? No thanks.
You made the racial and gender comment, crabs, not anyone else.
actually, your book makes a lot of very specific gender comments. Every time you speak of God, you speak of a male dominated system.
That is the beauty of faith, crabs, I know that won't happen.
I too have faith in what I believe, so using your logic to answer your question of "what if I'm wrong?", I KNOWI'm not wrong...because, according to you, that's the beauty of faith.
Faith, by it's very definition means that you don't know.That's whyyou have faith. If you knew, there would be no need to have faith. You would simply know it.
And who is doing the "torturing?"
The thing you believe in.
No, I read His book
You read a book written by people who heard voices in their heads.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe.
If your God is Satan, it is still the God that you are under. So why is there a problem with the generic saying of under God?
Are you ashamed of...say...the way your white male ancestors owned human beings?
As far back as I am able to research (1500's), my ancestors have never owned slaves. My wife's ancestors fought for the north in the Civil war and never owned slaves either. Your statement is based on no facts.
so, if enough people want it, you get to indoctrinate everyone's kids toward your beliefs by means of the public schools? No thanks.
It is called democracy. It is a good thing. Maybe you should give it some consideration sometime.
I too have faith in what I believe, so using your logic to answer your question of "what if I'm wrong?", I KNOW I'm not wrong...because, according to you, that's the beauty of faith.
You don't have faith, crabs, you only have pride.
You read a book written by people who heard voices in their heads. I am so sorry that you are so ignorant that you don't understand and so full of yourself that you don't want to.
shaped it into conformity to one way of thinking.
The 60s are over, man.
but are you proud of the way Christians have spread and colonized their beliefs?
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
I mean, I'm not particularly "proud" to be a white male on this planet, and why should I be?
Get over the guilt, Crabby. You can't help that you're a white male. You didn't do anything wrong.
You can feel ashamed of being a white guy if you want to, Crabs.
You can feel ashamed of being a white guy if you want to, Crabs.
LOL!
I didn't say I was either ashamed or guilty...just not particularly proud of it.
so, you don't think a central goal of Christianity has been to spread and colonize?
I think that's the central goal of space aliens on the X-Files.
that doesn't answer the question.
Christianity exists to praise and glorify God.
so the mercenary aspect is just fiction? no desire to "convert" others?
as if.
syntax shot?
Apparently your short term memory is shot since you were the one who said "do what?", I quoted you and now you are trying to correct me for saying it.
EVERYTHING exists.
Then I shall pray for your soul.
EVERYTHING matters.
Why?
EVERYTHING effects everyone.
How? If, as you once claimed here, everyone has killed, raped, etc., as someone else or something else at some time, how has that effected you?
you obviously do not understand what I believe.
That is why I am questioning what you say. You explain yourself in 2 or 3 word sentences and it leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
so the mercenary aspect is just fiction?
If you are eluding to the crusades, they were Christian in name only. They were not Christ like.
no desire to "convert" others?
Sure, people are going to try to convert others to what they believe is a better way. If you see someone standing on a train track with a train coming, you will try to get that person off.
my short term memory is fine. You said "apparently you do", in response to my asking "who said it bothered me?" I asked "do what?" since "apparently you do" makes no sense as a response to the question "who said it bothered me?"
crabgrass 3/31/04 5:30pm
pray for my soul because everything exists?
knock yourself out.
do you do your praying in a closet like your book tells you to?
why not?
in every way at one point or the other.
the "how" isn't the crux of it...the "when" is what to ask. the "when" opens up all kinds of things for you.
you aren't questioning what I say. You have already decided what you think. You are trying to get what I say to fit with your beliefs.
if you were questioning it, you wouldn't need to pray for my soul. That you are praying for my soul tells me that you have already decided you know what I think.
So, no Christians are setting up Christian churches in Iraq right now? No Christians are trying to spread their beliefs anywhere?
Christians aren't trying to insure that we have everyone's children pledge allegiance to their God in our schools?
I see.
why so hostile?
you gonna put a hex on me?
pray for my soul to do what exactly?
I might point out Rick, that your belief threatens me with the eternal fires of hell if I don't agree with it....talk about your "hostility"
you have a lot of nerve calling me hostile while claiming a belief that would throw me into a lake of fire if I don't subscribe.
you may think I'm hostile, but I promise you that I don't subscribe to any belief that says that you will be damned to eternal torment if you don't believe it too.
Christians aren't trying to insure that we have everyone's children pledge allegiance to their God in our schools?
Who has done this?
You win. When I quote you from now on I guess I will have to change the syntex of the sentence, by praying for your soul people are actually saying that they are going to put a hex on you, not being able to keep up from one post to the next is not a sign of short term memory problems, a few 2 or 3 word sentences are all that is needed to change a theory to fact, etc.
so, you don't think a central goal of Christianity has been to spread and colonize?
A central goal is to share the word of God, if that's what you mean by "spread".
Colonize? Hardly.
Christians aren't trying to insure that we have everyone's children pledge allegiance to their God in our schools?
Well, I'm a Christain, and I want my kid to say the pledge of allegiance. You can label that a Christian conspiracy if you wish.
I'm starting to believe we should just get rid of "public" schools, then it won't be an issue for you or anyone else.
Besides, that's a local issue, not a federal issue. Your argument of "Separation of Church & State" is irrelevant.
what's the difference?
you want them to say it in a public school as a group as part of the curriculum where it will be expected that everyone should say it.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe. You don't want them to understand that it's one nation, under many different ideas of what and who "God" may or may not be. Can another kid get up and say that your kid's country is "under Satan" every day in front of your kid and under the direction of your kid's teacher?
The Constitution applies to all states.
so, you don't think everyone should get an education?
when the "Americans" came here originally, they either converted the natives to Christianity or they killed them.
I mean, I'm not particularly "proud" to be a white male on this planet, and why should I be?
Are you ashamed?
ashamed of what?
being a white male?
I don't think that "shame" is something you have for someone else. To me, it's a personal thing. I'm embarrassed to be a white male when other white males act in ways they should be ashamed of though.
I try my best not to emulate some of the more shameful aspects others of my type have displayed over history though.
Are you ashamed of...say...the way your white male ancestors owned human beings?
It isn't like you believe we have souls to worry about.
the only reason you worry about your soul is because Christianity has blackmailed you into believing that if you don't, you will be tortured after you die.
Seems to me that such a belief is conducive to social stability.
" they either converted the natives to Christianity or they killed them."
I think it was more like, "convert, and you stand a good chance of prospering. If you don't we're not responisble for what happens to you."
I think Spain and Portugal probably carried on like that. Subsequent, colonizaiton I.e. England and France, was more tolerant of other religions. Their colonization was more of a business venture. By the 19th Century in Asia people were pretty much free to practice whatever religion they wanted.,
I still don't understand your hostility.
shaped it into conformity to one way of thinking.
Do you really believe that?
Christianity exists to praise and glorify God.
so the mercenary aspect is just fiction? no desire to "convert" others?
Is there anything wrong with spreading the Good News?
Apparently your short term memory is shot since you were the one who said "do what?", I quoted you and now you are trying to correct me for saying it.
I hear that happens by smoking the weed.
then so is the Mafia. So is a totalitarian regime. "Behave this way or else"...yes, that will make for a stable society. Stability by threat. Great.
who are you to decide what "prospering" means to another culture?
you mean like "believe what we believe and you will prosper, don't and we will take your land and prosper from it ourselves"? That kind of business venture?
You think the idea of "prosper in the way we think you should or you may perish" isn't hostile?
So, no Christians are setting up Christian churches in Iraq right now? No Christians are trying to spread their beliefs anywhere?
There is nothing wrong with that if that is happening.
you may think I'm hostile, but I promise you that I don't subscribe to any belief that says that you will be damned to eternal torment if you don't believe it too.
Well, crabs, what will you do if it turns out to be true?
Some of us don't consider being told we are damned to eternal torment unless we conform our beliefs to someone else's to be "good news".
Why do you consider such hostility to be "good news"?
You've probably listened to a lot of lies about marijuana.
it may be true that those who believe in the Bible are the ones who will be forever tormented in hell.
what are you gonna do if that turns out to be true?
what if it turns out that it's a test to see if you can be sold this idea of a Biblical God and those who buy into it lose their souls forever? What will you do?
What if it turns out that the Moslims are right?
What if it turns out that the Buddists are right?
What if you fin yourself answering to Zues on Mt. Olympus?
What if we are an experiment created by aliens to see if we will believe this "book" and those who do go into their "zoo"?
I've got news for you....it IS true, just not here and now for me.
If it IS true here and now for me, than God created me to be this way...so what's to worry?
The one thing I'm quite sure of is that things keeps changing.
It's not a cosmic game of musical chairs where everything stops and you have to be sitting on the correct religious chair if you want to end up okay.
you want them to say it in a public school as a group as part of the curriculum where it will be expected that everyone should say it.
Yes. That should be a choice of the people that send their children to the school. They certainly force other issues on our children.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe. You don't want them to understand that it's one nation, under many different ideas of what and who "God" may or may not be. Can another kid get up and say that your kid's country is "under Satan" every day in front of your kid and under the direction of your kid's teacher? You are one intolerant jackass. Again with the Satan crap. That wouldn't happen and if it did it should be a matter for the parents not the federal governmnet.
Besides, that's a local issue, not a federal issue. Your argument of "Separation of Church & State" is irrelevant.
The Constitution applies to all states. The Constituion has been bastardized by people like you. You stupid shit.
I'm starting to believe we should just get rid of "public" schools, then it won't be an issue for you or anyone else.
so, you don't think everyone should get an education?
They can get an education it just wouldn't have to be controlled by the government.
"You think the idea of "prosper in the way we think you should or you may perish" isn't hostile? "
I don't I've given my personal opinion or judgment on any of this.
Except that I think you're needlessy hostile to the point of being obsessed. As something of a lefty myself I think it's counterproductive.
I don't think that "shame" is something you have for someone else. To me, it's a personal thing. I'm embarrassed to be a white male when other white males act in ways they should be ashamed of though.
Why make it a racial or gender issue? Can't you see people as individuals?
Seems to me that such a belief is conducive to social stability.
then so is the Mafia. So is a totalitarian regime. "Behave this way or else"...yes, that will make for a stable society. Stability by threat. Great.
Nice, real nice. Christianity is equated with the mafia. You are one intolerant ass.
I rarely ever think of it unless someone says something like my country is Judeo-Christian....then I say what I think of it.
Otherwise, it's not something I really ever have to think about much.
Things like Bush wanting to find ways to give my tax money to churches sorta forces me into having to consider it from time to time, but I'm certainly not obsessed.
Is there anything wrong with spreading the Good News?
Some of us don't consider being told we are damned to eternal torment unless we conform our beliefs to someone else's to be "good news".
Then turn away. But apparently you are afraid to do so. The fear leads you to attack. Could it be that you fear that it all just may be true?
Well, crabs, what will you do if it turns out to be true?
it may be true that those who believe in the Bible are the ones who will be forever tormented in hell.
Do you have a direct line to Satan, or do you hear his voice in your head?
Everyone is different.
But that doesn't mean there is no such thing as white people or males.
Believe what we want you to believe or you get tortured.
Pay what you want us to pay or you get tortured.
Religion is the organized crime of the mind.
Do you have a direct line to God or do you hear his voice in your head?
what if it turns out that it's a test to see if you can be sold this idea of a Biblical God and those who buy into it lose their souls forever? What will you do?
That is the beauty of faith, crabs, I know that won't happen.
I've got news for you....it IS true, just not here and now for me. What is true?
If it IS true here and now for me, than God created me to be this way...so what's to worry? You apparently don't have any idea what the Bible teaches do you? God made you with free will. You have decided to reject Him. Well that is your choice, but don't fool yourself with the silly notion that you don't have anything to worry about.
I rarely ever think of it unless someone says something like my country is Judeo-Christian....then I say what I think of it.
Your country is based on Judeo Christian morality. You can deny it all you want but it doesn't change the fact.
Why make it a racial or gender issue? Can't you see people as individuals?
Everyone is different.
You made the racial and gender comment, crabs, not anyone else.
Believe what we want you to believe or you get tortured. And who is doing the "torturing?"
Do you have a direct line to God or do you hear his voice in your head? No, I read His book.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...
Yes, I want my kids to learn of and know God. What a horrible person I must be.
you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe.
No I don't. I don't care what you do or what you do with your kids. I just care about my kids.
You don't want them to understand that it's one nation, under many different ideas of what and who "God" may or may not be.
My kids already understand that. You think only white Catholic kids attend my kids school? I've already told you what a diverse neighborhood I live in.
Can another kid get up and say that your kid's country is "under Satan" every day in front of your kid and under the direction of your kid's teacher?
Sure, if the community wishes for such a thing. I just wouldn't send my kids to that school, and most likely wouldn't live in that community.
The Constitution applies to all states.
It's not expressly stated in the Constitution.
so, you don't think everyone should get an education?
I think everyone should get an education, but unlike you I believe parents should have a choice on said education.
so, if enough people want it, you get to indoctrinate everyone's kids toward your beliefs by means of the public schools? No thanks.
actually, your book makes a lot of very specific gender comments. Every time you speak of God, you speak of a male dominated system.
I too have faith in what I believe, so using your logic to answer your question of "what if I'm wrong?", I KNOWI'm not wrong...because, according to you, that's the beauty of faith.
Faith, by it's very definition means that you don't know.That's whyyou have faith. If you knew, there would be no need to have faith. You would simply know it.
The thing you believe in.
You read a book written by people who heard voices in their heads.
if you get rid of public schools, you remove the choice of schooling that that is available to everyone.
That's not choice.
and you want to teach them that this country, of which I am a part, is "under God"...you want them to put me under your God regardless of what I believe or don't believe.
If your God is Satan, it is still the God that you are under. So why is there a problem with the generic saying of under God?
Are you ashamed of...say...the way your white male ancestors owned human beings?
As far back as I am able to research (1500's), my ancestors have never owned slaves. My wife's ancestors fought for the north in the Civil war and never owned slaves either. Your statement is based on no facts.
Satan isn't a God.
and what if I have no God? Where do you get off including me under yours?
Can the teacher lead a pledge saying "one nation under NO Gods"?
Or do we have to have the majority decide what our kids are told to believe?
hey, I'm curious...when was the last time one of you washed a beggar's feet?
hey, I'm curious...when was the last time one of you washed a beggar's feet?
Well conversing with you, crabs, is about the equivalent.
so, if enough people want it, you get to indoctrinate everyone's kids toward your beliefs by means of the public schools? No thanks.
It is called democracy. It is a good thing. Maybe you should give it some consideration sometime.
I too have faith in what I believe, so using your logic to answer your question of "what if I'm wrong?", I KNOW I'm not wrong...because, according to you, that's the beauty of faith.
You don't have faith, crabs, you only have pride.
You read a book written by people who heard voices in their heads. I am so sorry that you are so ignorant that you don't understand and so full of yourself that you don't want to.