Share your thoughts here on the current state of the military
Byron White
If you don't think oil plays a part is all this, you're more naive than I thought.
Stability in an oil rich region? The free movment of oil at market prices?
No doubt stability and market prices are a major concern but that is not what the left wants you to believe. They want you to believe it is about personal greed of Bush and Cheney.
"They are NUTS, and we are SATAN to them. The most important factor being that they are certifiably and absolutely NUTS."
That's digging deep for insight, Bill.
I think the blue jeans and Pepsi is about as unrealistic.
I think there's limits to the amount of influence the United States can bring to bear on Middle Eastern culture. This is based on only two trips there. But I know many people from the region.
The relationship the U.S. has with Israel will always be a barrier. A history of meddling by the United States and Britain in the affairs of many countries has left many people there bitter and disgusted. So it's a matter of building trust.
The thing that would really disgust me would be if the U.S. cut and ran, now. I waffled on this the whole runup to the war. But now, there's no choice but to see it through. It's nation building time.
Americans will hear from her exactly what they want to hear. That's why she's popular. I'm sure there's other Muslims who feel much the same way, but they are afraid to say so.
You must have the terrorists mentality, crabs. I simply question the whether Islam should exist without any threats of violence and you think that is sufficient reason to kill 3,000 people. Amazing. You are lacking in logic and morals.
no, you do. "The real "trouble with Islam" is that it exists." is the exact same mentality that the terrorist have about us.
I simply question the whether Islam should exist without any threats of violence
that's a neat trick....how you gonna "unexist" a religion like that without the threat of violence?
when something exists and you suggest it shouldn't exist, that is very much a threat of violence, particularly if its from a country that has done violence.
no, you do. "The real "trouble with Islam" is that it exists." is the exact same mentality that the terrorist have about us.
No not all. Do you see where I have written that planes should be rammed into buildings? Or that suicide bombing is good? Do you understand the difference in holding an opinion and acting on it?
I simply question the whether Islam should exist without any threats of violence
that's a neat trick....how you gonna "unexist" a religion like that without the threat of violence?
Did I say that I was going to do anything to bring about such a thing?
when something exists and you suggest it shouldn't exist, that is very much a threat of violence, particularly if its from a country that has done violence.
Damn you are one dumb something or other. I don't think you should exist, crabs. Do you feel threatened?
Do you see where I have written that planes should be rammed into buildings?
I see where you say they shouldn't exist at all...you don't spell out how you plan to achieve this, but elimination is what it is.
In the terrorist mind, those three thousand people no longer exist and that is there goal...to end US. Just as you want them not to exist, they want us not to exist.
Did I say that I was going to do anything to bring about such a thing?
no one expected the Spanish Inquisition.
If someone says "you shouldn't exist" you gonna think there is no threat?
I don't think you should exist, crabs. Do you feel threatened?
It is a threat, yes.
I means you think I should be eliminated.
How do you possible get something other than a threat out of that?
when I point out that they think the same thing about you, you say "Well then it is no wonder we are at war."
if they exist and you don't want to stop them from existing, you want them to exist.
No, just becuase I don't take action to end their existence does not mean I want them to exist. Now if I provided them funds or moral support that would be different, but I don't.
then Islam isn't a threat to us, they just don't want us to exist anymore.
Bill, There's too many things to address in your posts so if I don't hit on something you wanted a response to let me know.
The violence in Iraq has claimed nearly three dozen American lives since last weekend. Rumsfeld said it is the work of a few "thugs, gangs and terrorists" and is not a popular uprising over the U.S.-led occupation.
A Few Thugs? This guy, should be FIRED.
More like a FEW THOUSAND terrorists, most of which have been trained as soldiers in either Iran or Iraq. Thugs?
Nonsense. ANY group of "THUGS" that can take on and hold-off a Batallion of Marines? Not to mention inflicting 36 deaths upon them?
NOT thugs.
Organized Soldiers.
You are a Marine LUV... What do you think?
The number killed was spread out across the country. Ramadi was the worst with 18 of those I beleive. From what I can gather it's a small c.p in a small area. It wasn't staffed with many Marines so it wasn't an entire batallion there. Are they organized ? Yes in some fashion. It doesn't take many of these dinks to cause problems and death. One well placed RPG or mortar round can kill and wound many at one time. The attack was wave after wave from what I know and they were limited in airpower due to the numerous civilians in the area.
As far as more troops the C.O's are free to ask for them. I don't think we do. I really don't. If i did I'd be all for it. We have to look at the scale of operations and for a modern military it's manageable. I haven't talked to any of my friends or family that are there or have returned that have thought that. But I'm not the one on the ground so it's hard for me to say. The C.O's are usually pretty good at speaking up for us so between that and what I've heard I don't think so.
I agree. I think it's one of the most important events in a long long time. I think the benefits can be widespread. I heard someone today discussing many of the insurgents coming from Iran. Iran is ready for change and the young people are really driving it in Iran.
LUV... You do NOT actually believe this, do you? IRAN is more of a threat than IRAQ is! If the Shee-Ite-Muslims proved anything with their recent and STRONG offensive (which killed at least 15 Marines), it is that when they ask for "Martyrs", they COME. This is ONLY going to widen the war... Do you disagree?
You have to remember that not all of the Iranians or Iraqi's want martyrdom and the jihad way. They merely want to get on with life and don't want these thugs around anymore than we want common criminals in our neighborhood. The young people in Iran are rebelling. The only thing keeping them down thus far is the Ayahtollahs. Do some checking on what's going on in there there's a definate change in the air in Iraq and it's in the positive. The Ayatohlas are worried and they should be.
If we stick with it? Pretty soon, we will be THE ONLY country "Sticking To It"....and these new insugents know that all too well. The way to defeat America's Military, is NOT by force of arms, as anyone who knows our armed forces will tell you. It is by force of Political WILLS, and unlike WWII, we do NOT have that political support any longer.
Support and will are two different things.
The thing to dso now, is to sit down with all these "Mullas", ask them for a cease-fire until we can legitimately hand-overf the reigns of power in JNune, and then Get The Hell Out, and send our Troops where they ARE needed... In Afghanistan.
Sit down and negotiate ? No Friggen way Bill. Ask Spain how negotiating with these f-cks is going ? It hasn't and doesn't work.
Our Prez, GDubbya, is now in a lose-lose situation, that only HE is unaware of. Just Like LBJ, just like Nixon.
Vietnam and Iraq are very very different. We never took territory in the north. We never controlled the government of the north. The terrain and politics are different. Those who want to compare them are wrong.
And by the way... If you think you can blame the DEMS, or the Blues, or the Greens, or whatever... for the "Mood" change, then fine, but it is NOT true. We have ALL stood BY this President all along, gave him every opportunity to WIN this war... The problem isn't US...it is HIM.
Yea, you stood by him a whole week and were already complaining after the farthest fastest advance in military history of the world.
The MOOD is changing gang... The question isn't how we can WIN in Iraq anymore... The question is now, "How Can We Get OUT".
Like I said Bill, there's a difference between willand support are different. You obviously are among those who don't have the will to continue. The troops there want to finish the mission. When they lose the will I will worry.
Now, the enemy is branching out, and finding their way into Iraq in HUGE numbers... Numbers that our current troop levels will NOT be able to contain. They have learned from Vietnam and now they are practicing the same tactics as Ho Chi Min did... "Keep Sending More and More Fighters, and eventually, they will sicken and TIRE of this War...and WE will win."
Are you saying our troops can't handle what they thow at us? Ye have little faith.
As I also said LONG ago... This IS becomming another Vietnam, politically.
Yea because people are constantly pouring any derision possible. Yea there's problems. You took issue with the letter written from the soldier in Iraq Bill because he's "conservative" Well the difference is that he's there. He's certainly not the only one there who's said similar things and they are not political people.
Turning tail and leave because we are taking casualites ? No way, bad idea. As much as I want those guys home and as much as I worry for family and friends leaving is not an option right now. They feel the same way.
The above [then Islam isn't a threat to us, they just don't want us to exist anymore] makes no sense.
well of course it doesn't make sense...it's the same logic that you use to say you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them. I just used the logic you gave when you claimed that you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them.
you are correct, your argument doesn't make sense.
well of course it doesn't make sense...it's the same logic that you use to say you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them. You ignore half of what is written and read things into posts that aren't there. Give up. You just make yourself look more foolish with each succeeding post.I just used the logic you gave when you claimed that you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them. Have I advocated ramming planes into buildings or suicide bombings? If the madmen would only think that America shouldn't exist and not act on the thought they wouldn't be a threat.
Have I advocated ramming planes into buildings or suicide bombings? If the madmen would only think that America shouldn't exist and not act on the thought they wouldn't be a threat.
You advocate tanks and guns and bombs, yes. You advocate killing them...making them not exist, yes.
If the madmen would only think that America shouldn't exist and not act on the thought they wouldn't be a threat.
do you understand what "pre-emptive" means when you advocate it?
Osama/Saddam/Taliban. They're all psychopaths and need to be taken out.
I don't even care about any terrorist connection or WMD's. Saddam would still be torturing people, running them through shredders, killing all opposition.... if it were up to certain people (you know who you are).
The propagandists makes it sound like we're just over there taking pot-shots at innocent people.
Well we're not. We're killing some very bad people and I say good riddance for bad rubbish. The world is a better place with them dead.
They're all psychopaths and need to be taken out....We're killing some very bad people and I say good riddance for bad rubbish. The world is a better place with them dead.
that's what the Taliban say about us too...you sound like a terrorist.
It's a real shame that people can't express their opinion here without being told to eat shit, or whatever. If you're not in lockstep with a certain person's view, you're an automatic asshole. Very sad actually.
they believe that the real trouble with the West is that it exists.
I don't believe the trouble with Iraq is that it exists, and I don't believe most American's believe that. I don't agree with Jethro that the trouble with Islam is that it exists, and I don't believe most Americans believe that either. Like any religion, it can be twisted. We got our own doing the same thing. I just hope I'm not judged on what they do.
I don't think most Muslims believe that the trouble with us is that we exist. It's just the nutballs that get all the press, and put fear into their own people to keep them in line.
they think we are evil.
We've made our mistakes. We've done some things that could be considered "Evil". However, I believe we have a noble cause in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I believe most in Iraq & Afghanistan would agree.
it's the same argument as the one you use.
No it's not. The thing is, the people in the WTC didn't do a damn thing to anyone. The people our soldiers are killing right now deserved it. They wouldn't shoot one bullet at them if they weren't first attacked.
Rob, I am insulted by that comment, and you can fuck-off for even saying it. If you care to read back on my posts...just a LITTLE, you would soon see that I gave GDubbya a PASS, for a YEAR at least, if not MORE, before I started questioning his abilities as a Commander In Chief,
Really ? A whole year. Well here's what you were saying a week and a half into ground ops. One week and a half.
I for one am quite angry that Bush isn't taking his BEST advice from POwell, a man who has already WON a war over there, but instead his ear is pinned down by Rumsfeld and Cheney, and "Tommy" Franks.
Hell, Schwartzkopf made it almost as far, fighting their whole freakin-Army,along the way! Our troops, at this very moment, have the enemy BEHIND their lines, in several places. They are fighting this War, with less than half the divisions that Iraq has, and even some of our commanders have asked for more equipment, men, and fast.
No, I think this campaign is in the end, going to prevail, but I would NOT call it one for the record books of America's Best Battles?
I'll say this and let it go: If Powell was the one giving most of the battle-advice to Bush, and he was TAKING that advice, we would have brought them to their knees by now.
I really believe that.
One week and a half.
A little tip for you Bill. Your words are archived, you'd think after getting burned enough times you'd learn that.
But it's really nice of you to say hey "fuck off", what class and really how mature of you Bill.
AND, I totally supported the efforts to obliterate the Terror network then, and I do NOW. My problems with IRAQ are that by invading the country, we drew the terrorists of that whole region INTO the fight, and now we are STUCK fighting TWO WARS.
Not only that, but so far I have done nothing BUT praise the efforts of The United States Marines and for your information I visit them, once a month at the VAMC. Do YOU ever take the time to visit thew wounded of your bretheren, Rob? Perhaps you should.
If you haven't noticed I've been a tad busy lately holding my family together but thanks for the concern. I personally don't believe in tooting my horn about good deeds that I do, but that's just me.
Maybe getting your information, as I have, right from their own mouths, would change you just a little...Or are you afraid to give two hours of your time, to learn the truth and give some comfort to those who are now trying to repair their broken bodies, and broken lives?
Yea, That's what I need is a lecture about spending time giving comfort to those trying to mend their broken bodies, Gee Billy, what the hell do you think I've been doing for the past 6 months? Hmmm ? How I spend my time and how I help my fellow Marines is none of your business. But really, thanks once again for the concern.
You say you get all the info you need from friends that are over there...? I doubt that you know more than 4 or 5 guys over there right now,
Really ? Well then that would be as accurate as your political predictions as of late.
but in any case... I saw a ground commander, a Marine Major IN THE FIELD, last night on CNN, (You can see him in the report tomorrow night, once again and in full...? I suggest you WATCH.)and he said..."After nine months of this, my(30) men are tired, and they are beginning to lose faith in themselves and this war, just a little". HIS WORDS.
Well of course they'd be tired, their human beings. Faith, could it have anything to do with people screaming quagmire ? Blood for oil ? Naah, they love that stuff.
On the other hand, I haven't seen YOU say anything at ALL about the passing/injured of your brothers, except when you become an EXPERT field commander, like in that last Bullshit Post?
That doesn't even dignify a response Bill. I have dear friends and family ther right now. If you don't think it hurts you're just plain wrong.
And it's good to know that you're not giving EXPERT field C.O advice considering you've been doing the same (see above). Hypocrite.
I would think YOU of ALL people, would be ANGRY about the wasted blood that those guys are shedding, and the lack of support they are getting from their most Senior Commanders, safely having dinner with their families, BACK IN D.C.??? I speak of the people who SEND them there, but NOT in sufficient numbers to SECURE that nation's borders...as I SAID.
Again Bill if you don't think I want what's best for them or that I don't cringe anytime I hear a report than I have nothing to say you on it, it simply doesn't deserve an answer and I won't dignify it with one.
Instead of answering a QUESTION I posed to you, you took it personally, and so I WON'T ask again.
Like you just did? If I didn't take it personally it would mean I didn't care about the people above that you just accused me of not caring about.
The MOOD is changing gang... The question isn't how we can WIN in Iraq anymore... The question is now, "How Can We Get OUT".
That's the spririt.
Yes indeed... The RIGHT is changing it's mood alright. Getting more pissy with each passing day.
Yea, that's us, accusing someone else of not doing enough while tooting their own horn saying how much more they care about the troops, and telling people to fuck off, yea, that's us, the pissy right.
Like I said Bill, there's a difference between will and support are different. You obviously are among those who don't have the will to continue. The troops there want to finish the mission. When they lose the will I will worry.
More bullshit. Oh there's a difference alright, just not the one you claim.
Oh you want to stay ? hmm, make up your mind.
You don't know me well enough to insult either my courage or force of will, so eat shit, Rob.
Never did, you took it that way, too bad, you shoulda asked for clarification before you went off. You want to leave. I think leaving right now is a horrible idea. You didn't like the fact that I disagreed with you. Sorry you don't like it, life's tough. But again more class once again. I really liked the "Eat Shit" Take you all night to think of that witty retort? How's that new "How to win friends and gain influence" book coming ? Gee I can't imagine why I don't see it your way, When someone tells you to fuck off and eat shit I usually immediately want to listen. -
The fact is that even GDubbya has spoken A LOT about 30 June recently, and that we ARE going to turn the political machinery over to the Iraqis at that time...Has he NOT?
Yes, and yet you still want to leave earlier.
I suppose that he could be just trying to appease "Peace Niks" like ME, but I suggest that he is instead, preparing for the day when we will get out, ALL THE WAY. At that time, I guess he won't have the WILL to continue the fight, eh?
If you think that our troops are leaving there on June 30th than you're wrong. It's a symbolic turnover at that point. I want what's best for our interests period. I don't love Gdubya or many of his decisons. I happen to agree with him on this one. If I thought someone had a better plan right now I'd vote for them in a second regardless of party because I personally feel Iraq IS part of the war on terror and I feel that it's the most important issue we've faced in 50 years. Taxes and all the other b.s can be haggled , increased and decreased debated etc. and it's important to me enough so that I'd vote for the one regardless of party who I think had the best plan. I can argue about taxes etc. tomorrow. This I can't, this issue is bigger than all that.
When will the fight end for YOU , Rob?
When it's stabilized enough for Iraq to stand on her own two feet. It's a long term commitment. Americans better than anyone are better at adapting and overcoming obstacles and challenges. Leaving when things seem the worst set an example over 20 years and it was a bad precedent. Well I'd go into it more but then if you disagreed I'd be treated to accusations innuendo and nice things like fuck off, eat shit etc. This addressed to the one person who even when he disagreed with you went to bat not once, but twice for you. Thanks.
You happy about what's going on in IRAQ? You satisfied with the level of support and medical treatment that the wounded and maimed are getting when they come back? You happy with GOP's committment to BETTER health care for Veterans? You like the meager wages the troops are being paid?
I can't complain.
Lastly? I STILL Believe that Colin Powell would make an absolutely GREAT President and that GDubbya is among the WORST, this nation has EVER produced.
GW is about the second or third best president we have had in the last 100 years.
Gee Rob... Nice to see TORPEDO is in full support of your post!!!
It is. I don't ever recall him telling me to fuck off when we disagreed either. In fact I don't recall him ever saying that to anyone on here maybe he did. Wish I could say the same for you.
Second? Since you were a Marine, I doubt very much if my profanity was very shocking to you, and if it was? I don't really care. Sometimes, the word "FUCK" just really satisfies a certain feeling that the word "DARN" just doesn't fulfill.
Nope, it's not shocking to me at all. I've heard it alot and use it myself sometimes, it's a good word and once and a while very effective. I heard it alot in the Corp I just didn't and don't very often tell people to fuck off or eat shit because I disagree with them but that's just me.
HEY... What is GDubbya doing today, to stop the fucking HOSTAGES from being taken in his IRAQ?
Oh I'm sure nothing Bill, he's probably sittin round, figuring out ways to make you happy.
I have the "Will", but GDubbya does NOT, or he would have sent in DOUBLE the number of Troops that are there now, sealed the borders and ordered the Troops to find each and every gun and mercenary in that country. He might also have gone to the U.N. by now, with Hat In Hand, and they just MIGHT have joined us by now. But he doesn't possess the humility required.
He asked the UN. 2 times and it's an open invitation. They already left when there H.Q was bombed after they refused our offer of security forces, they're gone, left the building like Elvis. Yea let's get them involved. They've done such a swell job in the last 20 years. Rwanda andyoe? Pristina Kosovo? You have the will to leave apparently since you're clamoring to high tail it out of there.
He is NOT a "War Leader", and he has NO Diplomatic skills, whatsoever.
Really? Wanna bet on how many troops will vote for him vs. Kerry ? Whattya say, 50 bucks this time ? 100?
I TOO have family obligations and a job and for the past 6 months, a family member close to death. I MAKE the time, and I wasn't "Bragging" about it, I was asking YOU what YOU do, that helps Veterans. No Answer.
Again Bill, I am of the belief that good deeds are best unspoken so I don't feel the need to answer to you. I do what I can and I sleep well at night.
Voting for GDubbya, does NOT count. No, I wasn't tooting my horn,
Like above where you just said "I MAKE the time" ? Honk Honk.
I was asking you a simple question about supporting our troops, after they come home, broken and mangled from this STUPID action in Iraq. Obviously, you only wanted to deflect my statements by posting a whole page of half-answers and A-Typical, Tired, Republican Cliches. Â Â
Guess it's better than the Democrat cliche's. "No blood for oil". "Baby killer". "We're the terrorists" "We brought on the attacks" etc. etc. I'll take our cliche's anyday over yours.
You happy about what's going on in IRAQ? You satisfied with the level of support and medical treatment that the wounded and maimed are getting when they come back? You happy with GOP's committment to BETTER health care for Veterans? You like the meager wages the troops are being paid?
Yea Bill I'm just thrilled about it.(rolls eyes)
Then I am VERY happy for YOU. But you are most assuredly, EASILY PLEASED. I am NOT happy about it and I FIGHT BACK. You don't. That, is the only difference.
I don't fight back ? And you do? Hmmm, well I'm glad you aren't tooting your own horn again and I'm really glad you're just so sure that I do nothing to support our troops and vets and that I don't fight back. That's a good one Bill. Frankly I don't care if you like what I do or not. You obviously know little about me and I don't really care to answer or be cordial or responsive when someone's only retort is fuck off and eat shit. For some reason I don't feel compelled to answer to you. If you don't like it tough. I have better things to do than discuss what I do with someone who can't debate or even take a little criticism without telling someone to fuck off. It really sounds like fun but I've seen the show thanks. You get what you give.
Isn't it amazing, how fold can be so wrong, so often. The only vet i have ever and will ever "insult", is you fold. You can sure dish the crap out, but when it's given back, it's suddenly "insulting". Grow up or get out.
Truth is, I asked you what you do to support the patients at the VA, and Veterans in general, and all you can do is serve up the latest republican milk-toast that you have dug up on the web, and accuse me of tooting my own horn. Shit man.
What part don't you understand? I didn't give you anything other than my opinion. My answer is that I don't discuss good deeds that I do. That's my belief, get it yet ? What I do for vets and my fellow Marines in my business. It's the same as why I don't tell people what I put in the collection plate or other charities I work with do you understand that? I certainly am not going to discuss what I do after someone tells me to fuck off and eat shit, especially after going to bat for them, I'm kind of funny that way.
Outside of what I have said the last couple days, you don't know anything at ALL about what I do or don't do for Veterans.
BINGO!!!!!!!!! And neither do you about me, the difference is I'm not going around telling people what I do and then admonishing them for not doing enough when you don't even know what it is they are doing.
And I LOVE the fact that Torpedo is your buddy. NOBODY in these rooms has insulted Veterans more than he has, yet you are now sticking up for him. GOOD FOR YOU !!!
Well first of all I've never met Torp. All I know is I can disagree with him and he has never came close to insulting me the way you did, that should tell you something. I haven't seen him insult Veterans, he might have insulted you personally but that's between you two. If I had seen him make a derrogatory comment about Vets I would have definately taken issue with it. As far as sticking up for someone offending Vets you did it yesterday sticking up for Roony after his assinine comments, you didn't crtiicize him at all but managed to turn it into another anti-Bush rant when it wasn't about him. it was about the stupid and insulting comments he made about our troops but you didn't say a word about it.
My bet is that it is pity, but that's nice.
So I guess if you want LUV's respect, you have to be like PEDO, and patronize you, right?
Respect? You have to give some to get it. I merely want to debate with someone wether I disagree or agree without being told to fuck off. I disagree with Rick alot but I respect him because he doesn't resort to that and doesn't drag it down to name calling.
He's all yours...But you know as well as I do that he's just a deuchebag, happily blowing-you at the moment, so that he can try to impress somebody, anybody.
If you don't think oil plays a part is all this, you're more naive than I thought.
Stability in an oil rich region? The free movment of oil at market prices?
No doubt stability and market prices are a major concern but that is not what the left wants you to believe. They want you to believe it is about personal greed of Bush and Cheney.
As I also said LONG ago... This IS becomming another Vietnam, politically.
This is what the left wants America to believe but it is just another one of their lies.
"They are NUTS, and we are SATAN to them. The most important factor being that they are certifiably and absolutely NUTS."
That's digging deep for insight, Bill.
I think the blue jeans and Pepsi is about as unrealistic.
I think there's limits to the amount of influence the United States can bring to bear on Middle Eastern culture. This is based on only two trips there. But I know many people from the region.
The relationship the U.S. has with Israel will always be a barrier. A history of meddling by the United States and Britain in the affairs of many countries has left many people there bitter and disgusted. So it's a matter of building trust.
The thing that would really disgust me would be if the U.S. cut and ran, now. I waffled on this the whole runup to the war. But now, there's no choice but to see it through. It's nation building time.
This woman is a very progressive Muslim thinker.
Americans will hear from her exactly what they want to hear. That's why she's popular. I'm sure there's other Muslims who feel much the same way, but they are afraid to say so.
The real "trouble with Islam" is that it exists.
funny, that's exactly what they say about you Christians.
funny, that's exactly what they say about you Christians.
Well then it is no wonder we are at war.
then it's no wonder that they are too.
great, you have just validated 9/11 for them.
nice.
great, you have just validated 9/11 for them.
You must have the terrorists mentality, crabs. I simply question the whether Islam should exist without any threats of violence and you think that is sufficient reason to kill 3,000 people. Amazing. You are lacking in logic and morals.
no, you do. "The real "trouble with Islam" is that it exists." is the exact same mentality that the terrorist have about us.
that's a neat trick....how you gonna "unexist" a religion like that without the threat of violence?
when something exists and you suggest it shouldn't exist, that is very much a threat of violence, particularly if its from a country that has done violence.
You must have the terrorists mentality, crabs
no, you do. "The real "trouble with Islam" is that it exists." is the exact same mentality that the terrorist have about us.
No not all. Do you see where I have written that planes should be rammed into buildings? Or that suicide bombing is good? Do you understand the difference in holding an opinion and acting on it?
I simply question the whether Islam should exist without any threats of violence
that's a neat trick....how you gonna "unexist" a religion like that without the threat of violence?
Did I say that I was going to do anything to bring about such a thing?
when something exists and you suggest it shouldn't exist, that is very much a threat of violence, particularly if its from a country that has done violence.
Damn you are one dumb something or other. I don't think you should exist, crabs. Do you feel threatened?
I see where you say they shouldn't exist at all...you don't spell out how you plan to achieve this, but elimination is what it is.
In the terrorist mind, those three thousand people no longer exist and that is there goal...to end US. Just as you want them not to exist, they want us not to exist.
no one expected the Spanish Inquisition.
If someone says "you shouldn't exist" you gonna think there is no threat?
It is a threat, yes.
I means you think I should be eliminated.
How do you possible get something other than a threat out of that?
when I point out that they think the same thing about you, you say "Well then it is no wonder we are at war."
Threat...hell yes.
Sometime my kid tells me that but I haven't taken it seriously.
if they exist and you don't want to stop them from existing, you want them to exist.
then Islam isn't a threat to us, they just don't want us to exist anymore.
if they exist and you don't want to stop them from existing, you want them to exist.
No, just becuase I don't take action to end their existence does not mean I want them to exist. Now if I provided them funds or moral support that would be different, but I don't.
then Islam isn't a threat to us, they just don't want us to exist anymore.
You are moron. The above makes no sense.
Bill, There's too many things to address in your posts so if I don't hit on something you wanted a response to let me know.
The number killed was spread out across the country. Ramadi was the worst with 18 of those I beleive. From what I can gather it's a small c.p in a small area. It wasn't staffed with many Marines so it wasn't an entire batallion there. Are they organized ? Yes in some fashion. It doesn't take many of these dinks to cause problems and death. One well placed RPG or mortar round can kill and wound many at one time. The attack was wave after wave from what I know and they were limited in airpower due to the numerous civilians in the area.
As far as more troops the C.O's are free to ask for them. I don't think we do. I really don't. If i did I'd be all for it. We have to look at the scale of operations and for a modern military it's manageable. I haven't talked to any of my friends or family that are there or have returned that have thought that. But I'm not the one on the ground so it's hard for me to say. The C.O's are usually pretty good at speaking up for us so between that and what I've heard I don't think so.
I agree. I think it's one of the most important events in a long long time. I think the benefits can be widespread. I heard someone today discussing many of the insurgents coming from Iran. Iran is ready for change and the young people are really driving it in Iran.
You have to remember that not all of the Iranians or Iraqi's want martyrdom and the jihad way. They merely want to get on with life and don't want these thugs around anymore than we want common criminals in our neighborhood. The young people in Iran are rebelling. The only thing keeping them down thus far is the Ayahtollahs. Do some checking on what's going on in there there's a definate change in the air in Iraq and it's in the positive. The Ayatohlas are worried and they should be.
Support and will are two different things.
Sit down and negotiate ? No Friggen way Bill. Ask Spain how negotiating with these f-cks is going ? It hasn't and doesn't work.
Vietnam and Iraq are very very different. We never took territory in the north. We never controlled the government of the north. The terrain and politics are different. Those who want to compare them are wrong.
Yea, you stood by him a whole week and were already complaining after the farthest fastest advance in military history of the world.
Like I said Bill, there's a difference between willand support are different. You obviously are among those who don't have the will to continue. The troops there want to finish the mission. When they lose the will I will worry.
Are you saying our troops can't handle what they thow at us? Ye have little faith.
Yea because people are constantly pouring any derision possible. Yea there's problems. You took issue with the letter written from the soldier in Iraq Bill because he's "conservative" Well the difference is that he's there. He's certainly not the only one there who's said similar things and they are not political people.
Turning tail and leave because we are taking casualites ? No way, bad idea. As much as I want those guys home and as much as I worry for family and friends leaving is not an option right now. They feel the same way.
well of course it doesn't make sense...it's the same logic that you use to say you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them. I just used the logic you gave when you claimed that you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them.
you are correct, your argument doesn't make sense.
well of course it doesn't make sense...it's the same logic that you use to say you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them. You ignore half of what is written and read things into posts that aren't there. Give up. You just make yourself look more foolish with each succeeding post.I just used the logic you gave when you claimed that you think they shouldn't exist, but you aren't a threat to them. Have I advocated ramming planes into buildings or suicide bombings? If the madmen would only think that America shouldn't exist and not act on the thought they wouldn't be a threat.
You advocate tanks and guns and bombs, yes. You advocate killing them...making them not exist, yes.
do you understand what "pre-emptive" means when you advocate it?
You advocate tanks and guns and bombs, yes. You advocate killing them...making them not exist, yes.
Comparing a legit Govt. to Osama is fruity.
which explains Iraq how exactly?
Osama/Saddam/Taliban. They're all psychopaths and need to be taken out.
I don't even care about any terrorist connection or WMD's. Saddam would still be torturing people, running them through shredders, killing all opposition.... if it were up to certain people (you know who you are).
The propagandists makes it sound like we're just over there taking pot-shots at innocent people.
Well we're not. We're killing some very bad people and I say good riddance for bad rubbish. The world is a better place with them dead.
Oh, and yes, our soldiers are killing and being killed.
That happens with soldiers.
that's what the Taliban say about us too...you sound like a terrorist.
your Christ would be ashamed of you.
It's a real shame that people can't express their opinion here without being told to eat shit, or whatever. If you're not in lockstep with a certain person's view, you're an automatic asshole. Very sad actually.
that's what the Taliban say about us too...
The Taliban was never recognized as a legit govt.
Nice try though.
you sound like a terrorist.
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo.
so? Germany is a legitimate country. Iraq is/was a legitimate country.
so?
Sew?
Germany is a legitimate country.
Are we at war with Germany? Besides, Germany had a self interest in keeping Saddam in power.
Iraq is/was a legitimate country.
Yeah, right.
you missed the point entirely.
No, I think you live in lala land, and believe their's no cause ever worth going to war.
As if we could deal with madmen the way you do with wise men.
all I'm saying is that your reasons are the same as their's.
they believe that the real trouble with the West is that it exists.
they think we are evil.
it's the same argument as the one you use.
they believe that the real trouble with the West is that it exists.
I don't believe the trouble with Iraq is that it exists, and I don't believe most American's believe that. I don't agree with Jethro that the trouble with Islam is that it exists, and I don't believe most Americans believe that either. Like any religion, it can be twisted. We got our own doing the same thing. I just hope I'm not judged on what they do.
I don't think most Muslims believe that the trouble with us is that we exist. It's just the nutballs that get all the press, and put fear into their own people to keep them in line.
they think we are evil.
We've made our mistakes. We've done some things that could be considered "Evil". However, I believe we have a noble cause in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I believe most in Iraq & Afghanistan would agree.
it's the same argument as the one you use.
No it's not. The thing is, the people in the WTC didn't do a damn thing to anyone. The people our soldiers are killing right now deserved it. They wouldn't shoot one bullet at them if they weren't first attacked.
The Taliban believe their's is a noble cause as well.
this was the point I was arguing when you challenged it.
and yet...
we say that we are the one's responsible for our government...you even demand that it's a requirement, a "legitimate" government.
Really ? A whole year. Well here's what you were saying a week and a half into ground ops. One week and a half.
'Bill - Fold' "The war in Iraq" 3/27/03 10:39am
'Bill - Fold' "The war in Iraq" 3/26/03 8:40am
One week and a half.
A little tip for you Bill. Your words are archived, you'd think after getting burned enough times you'd learn that.
But it's really nice of you to say hey "fuck off", what class and really how mature of you Bill.
If you haven't noticed I've been a tad busy lately holding my family together but thanks for the concern. I personally don't believe in tooting my horn about good deeds that I do, but that's just me.
Yea, That's what I need is a lecture about spending time giving comfort to those trying to mend their broken bodies, Gee Billy, what the hell do you think I've been doing for the past 6 months? Hmmm ? How I spend my time and how I help my fellow Marines is none of your business. But really, thanks once again for the concern.
Really ? Well then that would be as accurate as your political predictions as of late.
Well of course they'd be tired, their human beings. Faith, could it have anything to do with people screaming quagmire ? Blood for oil ? Naah, they love that stuff.
That doesn't even dignify a response Bill. I have dear friends and family ther right now. If you don't think it hurts you're just plain wrong.
And it's good to know that you're not giving EXPERT field C.O advice considering you've been doing the same (see above). Hypocrite.
Again Bill if you don't think I want what's best for them or that I don't cringe anytime I hear a report than I have nothing to say you on it, it simply doesn't deserve an answer and I won't dignify it with one.
Like you just did? If I didn't take it personally it would mean I didn't care about the people above that you just accused me of not caring about.
That's the spririt.
Yea, that's us, accusing someone else of not doing enough while tooting their own horn saying how much more they care about the troops, and telling people to fuck off, yea, that's us, the pissy right.
Like I said Bill, there's a difference between will and support are different. You obviously are among those who don't have the will to continue. The troops there want to finish the mission. When they lose the will I will worry.
Oh you want to stay ? hmm, make up your mind.
Never did, you took it that way, too bad, you shoulda asked for clarification before you went off. You want to leave. I think leaving right now is a horrible idea. You didn't like the fact that I disagreed with you. Sorry you don't like it, life's tough. But again more class once again. I really liked the "Eat Shit" Take you all night to think of that witty retort? How's that new "How to win friends and gain influence" book coming ? Gee I can't imagine why I don't see it your way, When someone tells you to fuck off and eat shit I usually immediately want to listen. -
Yes, and yet you still want to leave earlier.
If you think that our troops are leaving there on June 30th than you're wrong. It's a symbolic turnover at that point. I want what's best for our interests period. I don't love Gdubya or many of his decisons. I happen to agree with him on this one. If I thought someone had a better plan right now I'd vote for them in a second regardless of party because I personally feel Iraq IS part of the war on terror and I feel that it's the most important issue we've faced in 50 years. Taxes and all the other b.s can be haggled , increased and decreased debated etc. and it's important to me enough so that I'd vote for the one regardless of party who I think had the best plan. I can argue about taxes etc. tomorrow. This I can't, this issue is bigger than all that.
When it's stabilized enough for Iraq to stand on her own two feet.
It's a long term commitment. Americans better than anyone are better at adapting and overcoming obstacles and challenges. Leaving when things seem the worst set an example over 20 years and it was a bad precedent.
Well I'd go into it more but then if you disagreed I'd be treated to accusations innuendo and nice things like fuck off, eat shit etc.
This addressed to the one person who even when he disagreed with you went to bat not once, but twice for you. Thanks.
Uh huh, my thoughts exactly Bill.
Excellent Rob. Just excellent!
They can believe that all they want it is when they act on it that it becomes a problem.
this was the point I was arguing when you challenged it.
I thought your point was that our soldiers were basically murderers and just as bad as the Taliban, Osama & Saddam.
But maybe I'm wrong.
no, my point is our leaders are using the same reasoning of the Taliban. Different sides of the same ugly coin.
Can you get any more bitter, fold? You've really gone off the deep end after you turned 50.
Triple trey joe!
Was it a Section 8 Klinger was always trying to get?
no, my point is our leaders are using the same reasoning of the Taliban. Different sides of the same ugly coin.
Then you are unquestionably mistaken.
You happy about what's going on in IRAQ? You satisfied with the level of support and medical treatment that the wounded and maimed are getting when they come back? You happy with GOP's committment to BETTER health care for Veterans? You like the meager wages the troops are being paid?
I can't complain.
Lastly? I STILL Believe that Colin Powell would make an absolutely GREAT President and that GDubbya is among the WORST, this nation has EVER produced.
GW is about the second or third best president we have had in the last 100 years.
It is. I don't ever recall him telling me to fuck off when we disagreed either. In fact I don't recall him ever saying that to anyone on here maybe he did. Wish I could say the same for you.
Nope, it's not shocking to me at all. I've heard it alot and use it myself sometimes, it's a good word and once and a while very effective. I heard it alot in the Corp I just didn't and don't very often tell people to fuck off or eat shit because I disagree with them but that's just me.
Oh I'm sure nothing Bill, he's probably sittin round, figuring out ways to make you happy.
He asked the UN. 2 times and it's an open invitation. They already left when there H.Q was bombed after they refused our offer of security forces, they're gone, left the building like Elvis. Yea let's get them involved. They've done such a swell job in the last 20 years. Rwanda andyoe? Pristina Kosovo? You have the will to leave apparently since you're clamoring to high tail it out of there.
Really? Wanna bet on how many troops will vote for him vs. Kerry ? Whattya say, 50 bucks this time ? 100?
Again Bill, I am of the belief that good deeds are best unspoken so I don't feel the need to answer to you. I do what I can and I sleep well at night.
Like above where you just said "I MAKE the time" ? Honk Honk.
Guess it's better than the Democrat cliche's. "No blood for oil". "Baby killer". "We're the terrorists" "We brought on the attacks" etc. etc. I'll take our cliche's anyday over yours.
Yea Bill I'm just thrilled about it.(rolls eyes)
I don't fight back ? And you do? Hmmm, well I'm glad you aren't tooting your own horn again and I'm really glad you're just so sure that I do nothing to support our troops and vets and that I don't fight back. That's a good one Bill. Frankly I don't care if you like what I do or not. You obviously know little about me and I don't really care to answer or be cordial or responsive when someone's only retort is fuck off and eat shit. For some reason I don't feel compelled to answer to you. If you don't like it tough. I have better things to do than discuss what I do with someone who can't debate or even take a little criticism without telling someone to fuck off. It really sounds like fun but I've seen the show thanks. You get what you give.
Once again, nice job.
LOL!
Isn't it amazing, how fold can be so wrong, so often. The only vet i have ever and will ever "insult", is you fold. You can sure dish the crap out, but when it's given back, it's suddenly "insulting". Grow up or get out.
What part don't you understand? I didn't give you anything other than my opinion. My answer is that I don't discuss good deeds that I do. That's my belief, get it yet ? What I do for vets and my fellow Marines in my business. It's the same as why I don't tell people what I put in the collection plate or other charities I work with do you understand that? I certainly am not going to discuss what I do after someone tells me to fuck off and eat shit, especially after going to bat for them, I'm kind of funny that way.
BINGO!!!!!!!!! And neither do you about me, the difference is I'm not going around telling people what I do and then admonishing them for not doing enough when you don't even know what it is they are doing.
Well first of all I've never met Torp. All I know is I can disagree with him and he has never came close to insulting me the way you did, that should tell you something. I haven't seen him insult Veterans, he might have insulted you personally but that's between you two. If I had seen him make a derrogatory comment about Vets I would have definately taken issue with it. As far as sticking up for someone offending Vets you did it yesterday sticking up for Roony after his assinine comments, you didn't crtiicize him at all but managed to turn it into another anti-Bush rant when it wasn't about him. it was about the stupid and insulting comments he made about our troops but you didn't say a word about it.
Respect? You have to give some to get it. I merely want to debate with someone wether I disagree or agree without being told to fuck off. I disagree with Rick alot but I respect him because he doesn't resort to that and doesn't drag it down to name calling.
See above.