In recent weeks, a long-brewing conspiratorial question managed to make its way off of loony web sites and onto the front page of the paper of record, the New York Times: What did Bush know, and when did he know it, before 9/11?
Seemingly lost in the “discussion” is any similar treatment of the former president with such what-and-when-did-he-know questions. Not about 9/11, but about Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda, or simply the general threat posed by radical Islam.
Clinton did nothing. It is my understanding that he wouldn't meet with the CIA.
A source, please? Clarke testified under oath that when chatter was hot, like around the millenium, Clinton was meeting with the CIA chief, the head of the FBI and others every single day.
Clinton wasn't going to put himself on the line for anything.
What is it like to be so driven by hatred? It doesn't seem like a very Christian attitude.
A source, please? Clarke testified under oath that when chatter was hot, like around the millenium, Clinton was meeting with the CIA chief, the head of the FBI and others every single day. Let me be more specific. The CIA couldn't get an appointment with Clinton. He apparently met with Clinton as part of a group. I'll see if I can locate that source.
Clinton wasn't going to put himself on the line for anything. What is it like to be so driven by hatred? It doesn't seem like a very Christian attitude. I don't hate Clinton. He just shouldn't have been president. I see Clinton as a immature. He was unfit for the job because he would rather play than work. Clinton would be a fine guy to have a beer with but that is about it.
I don't hate Clinton. Clinton would be a fine guy to have a beer with but that is about it.
If you don't hate him, why do write post after post denying him credit for anything good that happened in eight years, and blaming him for thing that happened after he was out of office?
He just shouldn't have been president.
He got the votes. Twice.
He was unfit for the job because he would rather play than work.
What U.S. President has been either at his "ranch" in Texas, the family summer home in Kennebunkport, or Camp David for 40% of the time he's been in office? Whose reported typical day includes an hour of playing video games? George W. Bush.
If you don't hate him, why do write post after post denying him credit for anything good that happened in eight years, and blaming him for thing that happened after he was out of office? Becuase I don't think he accomplished anything of value. I do not But that doesn't mean I hate him. But if the government under Clinton's watch had done its job there may not have been a 9/11. No gurantees of course but it would better for him if he could point to any real efforts to combat terrorism.
He just shouldn't have been president. He got the votes. Twice. So did Richard Nixon
I just don't understand why liberals keep defending Bill Clinton. They would have much more credibility if they would just say that Clinton was a self absorbed and narcissistic man that let his own personal desires get in the way of his job.
Muskwa, early on in the Bush administration there were a number of articles published about how everything runs to a strict schedule in the new White House, as opposed to the previous administration. GW goes to bed early, gets a full eight hours, yadda yadda yadda, and had both a scheduled exercise break and an afternoon break for Nintendo or other video games. It's at least as reliable as Jethro's claim that Clinton refused to meet with the CIA. I haven't been able to locate the original articles -- working on refining my search criteria.
jethro:
if the government under Clinton's watch had done its job there may not have been a 9/11. No gurantees of course but it would better for him if he could point to any real efforts to combat terrorism.
His counterterorism director, as well as a number of other Clinton administration officials have testified before the commission about the very real efforts that were made on Clinton's watch. If you've not been keeping up with the news, it's not my fault. Further, Clarke testified that if the current administration had gone into a Clinton-style full-court-press in the summer of 2001, as the intelligence chatter intensified, there's a chance that the attacks of 9/11 might have been prevented. Not a certainty, but a maybe.
But you're not running a war or an economy. And I'll bet you don't get to take vacations 40% of the time.
According to NewsMax, the Oval Office is closed at 6 p.m., whereas under Clinton the lights there were often on after midnight. PBS gives him credit for working 'til 7.
USA Today says:
However, little rattles Bush's routine. When he gets up, usually before 6 a.m., he grabs the newspapers and devours the sports section first.
Priorities, y'know.
He loves the perks like the theater and the bowling alley. He escapes as often as he can to Camp David and his Texas ranch and makes no apologies for starting his weekends by 3 p.m. or so on Fridays.
And I'll bet you don't get to take vacations 40% of the time.
They're working vacations. The President can work just as easily from Texas as he can from the oval office.
According to NewsMax, the Oval Office is closed at 6 p.m., whereas under Clinton the lights there were often on after midnight. PBS gives him credit for working 'til 7.
Well, when you're hung over in bed until 2:00PM....
There's also that intern issue. I mean, I'm sure it's easier slamming intern @ midnight when no one is around, than @ 3:00 when the office is full of people.
According to NewsMax, the Oval Office is closed at 6 p.m., whereas under Clinton the lights there were often on after midnight. PBS gives him credit for working 'til 7.
Clinton has a reputation for being one of the hardest working presidents we've ever had.
His counterterorism director, as well as a number of other Clinton administration officials have testified before the commission about the very real efforts that were made on Clinton's watch. They testified about nothing getting done.
Further, Clarke testified that if the current administration had gone into a Clinton-style full-court-press in the summer of 2001, as the intelligence chatter intensified, there's a chance that the attacks of 9/11 might have been prevented. Not a certainty, but a maybe. A "Clinton-style full-court-press" is a fantasy.
jethro reminds me of someone holding his hands over his ears and going "lalalalalalalalalalala I can't HHHEEEAAAAARRRRRRR yoooooooooooo"
There's more to contradicting the sworn statements of people who were there, matters of public record, than writing "no he didn't, no he didn't" over and over again.
Here's a few excerpts from the statements of the vice-chairman of the 9/11 commission, just before the testimony of CIA Director George Tenet:
Director Tenet has publicly testified that 70 terrorists were rendered and brought to justice before 9/11. These activities could only achieve so much. In countries where the CIA did not have cooperative relationships with local security services, the rendition strategy often failed.
---
Disruptions of suspected terror cells thwarted numerous plots against American interests abroad, particularly during high-threat periods. After the embassy bombings of 1998, the U.S. disrupted planned attacks against at least one American embassy in Albania. In late 1999, preceding the millennium celebrations, the activities of 21 individuals were disrupted in eight countries.
--
Since its inception, the OBL station had been working on a covert action plan to capture bin Laden and bring him to justice. The plan had been elaborately developed by the spring of 1998. Its final variant in this period used Afghan tribal fighters recruited by the CIA to assault a terrorist compound where bin Laden might be found, capture him if possible, and take him to a location where he could be picked up and transported to the United States.
Though the plan had dedicated proponents in the bin Laden unit and was discussed for months among top policy-makers, all of the CIA's leadership and a key official in the field agreed that the odds of failure were too high. They did not recommend it for approval by the White House.
--
After the East Africa bombings, President Clinton signed successive authorizations for the CIA to undertake offensive operations in Afghanistan against bin Laden.
--- With the NSC staff's backing, the counterterrorism center and the military came up with a proposal to fly an unmanned drone, called the Predator, over Afghanistan to survey the territory below and relay video footage.
That information, the White House hoped, could either boost U.S. knowledge of Al Qaida or be used to kill bin Laden with a cruise missile.
Assistant DCI Allen said that the CIA's senior management was originally reluctant to go ahead with the Predator program, adding that, quote, "It was a bloody struggle," end of quote. But the NSC staff was firm and the CIA agreed to fly the Predator as a trial concept.
---
Senior NSC staff members told us they believe the president's intent was clear: He wanted bin Laden dead.On successive occasions, President Clinton issued authorities instructing the CIA to use its proxies to capture or assault bin Laden and his lieutenants in operations in which they might be killed. The instructions, except in one defined contingency, were to capture bin Laden, if possible.
Senior legal advisers in the Clinton administration agreed that under the law of armed conflict, killing a person who posed an imminent threat to the United States was an act of self-defense, not an assassination.
As former National Security Adviser Berger explained, "If we wanted to kill bin Laden with cruise missiles, why would we not want to kill him with covert action?" Clarke's recollection is the same.
Let us have a moment of silence in memory of the defunct assertion that "Clinton did nothing against terrorism."
jethro reminds me of someone holding his hands over his ears and going "lalalalalalalalalalala I can't HHHEEEAAAAARRRRRRR yoooooooooooo" No that would be you and your ilk. Clinton did do nothing. Nothing was accomplished and he did nothing to get support from the American people to do anything. The only thing Clinton could do is talk and when he did no one knew if it was the truth or a lie. But that doesn't stop people like you from criticizing Bush. Clinton has nothing to show in this imaginary fight against terrorism for nearly eight years but people like you think Bush should have solved the problem in 8 months. It is just another sorry example of how dishonest your kind is, pieter.
<generic hysterical anti-Clinton rant by jethro, no need to quote directly>
I post chapter and verse of a small fraction of what was done by the Clinton administration to combat terrorism in general and bin Laden in particular, and all jethro can do is scream "not so, not so, not so." There is none so blind as they that won't see.
jethro, your hate blinds you. You can't handle the truth, that a politician you despise actually might have had the best interests of the country at heart and done a few good things. You can't handle it, because in jethroworld it's all black/white good/evil, a true Manichean universe. The real world isn't like that, jethro, and we'll all be better off when you and your President realize it.
NBC News has obtained, exclusively, extraordinary secret video, shot by the U.S. government. It illustrates an enormous opportunity the Clinton administration had to kill or capture bin Laden. Critics call it a missed opportunity.
In the fall of 2000, in Afghanistan, unmanned, unarmed spy planes called Predators flew over known al-Qaida training camps. The pictures that were transmitted live to CIA headquarters show al-Qaida terrorists firing at targets, conducting military drills and then scattering on cue through the desert.
Also, that fall, the Predator captured even more extraordinary pictures — a tall figure in flowing white robes. Many intelligence analysts believed then and now it is bin Laden.
Clinton had live pictures of Bin Laden and did not act? Yeah, he really was on top of things.
BILL CLINTON'S reluctance to take political risks while president, his fear of derailing Middle East talks and his unwillingness to contemplate casualties helped to allow Osama bin Laden to survive and mount the September 11 attacks, an investigation concluded yesterday.
Mr Clinton's half-hearted plans to pursue bin Laden were mocked by special forces operatives as "going Hollywood" and his threats to the Taliban that military force would be used were never followed by action.
Bush has a JOB and ALWAYS will! And THAT'S a fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep -- his whole life he's been coddled and cosseted by influence-seekers, just like his brother Neil. He'll never starve, no matter how many businesses he runs into the ground.
You didn't mention ALL of the story of the "Sighting" of Bin Laden, DAN. Conveniently.
That is what the link is for. Unlike some others here, I do provide links when possible.
Do you mean that he didn't even care enough to have anything within striking range just in case they saw something? Or do you mean that he treated it like a law enforcement problem?
From the same link...
“We were not prepared to take the military action necessary,” said retired Gen. Wayne Downing, who ran counter-terror efforts for the current Bush administration and is now an NBC analyst.
“We should have had strike forces prepared to go in and react to this intelligence, certainly cruise missiles — either air- or sea-launched — very, very accurate, could have gone in and hit those targets,” Downing added.
Gary Schroen, a former CIA station chief in Pakistan, says the White House required the CIA to attempt to capture bin Laden alive, rather than kill him.
What impact did the wording of the orders have on the CIA’s ability to get bin Laden? “It reduced the odds from, say, a 50 percent chance down to, say, 25 percent chance that we were going to be able to get him,” said Schroen.
A Democratic member of the 9/11 commission says there was a larger issue: The Clinton administration treated bin Laden as a law enforcement problem.
Bob Kerry, a former senator and current 9/11 commission member, said, “The most important thing the Clinton administration could have done would have been for the president, either himself or by going to Congress, asking for a congressional declaration to declare war on al-Qaida, a military-political organization that had declared war on us.”
Face it, Clinton was unable to deal with Osama and now President Bush has to.
Yep -- his whole life he's been coddled and cosseted by influence-seekers, just like his brother Neil.
But not to the extent that Al gore or Ted Kennedy were?
I post chapter and verse of a small fraction of what was done by the Clinton administration to combat terrorism in general and bin Laden in particular, and all jethro can do is scream "not so, not so, not so." There is none so blind as they that won't see. What was done? Talk amongst themselves.
jethro, your hate blinds you. No not at all.You can't handle the truth, that a politician you despise actually might have had the best interests of the country at heart and done a few good things. Apparently you are as gullible as Madeline Albright.
Hey, torp -- would you care to comment on the fact that the last four days have been extremely hot in California? Yesterday, the former heat record for the date in downtown Los Angeles was broken by eight degrees. I'm not claiming that this proves anything, but you do alert us every time it's cold in Minnesota.
By the way, there's a difference between sarcasm and satire; you could look it up. Satire is the sort of thing that goes over some people's heads. Maybe if you'd gone to a ritzy New England private school like GW Bush, you'd have learned something about the finer points of language. Um, wait a minute, that's apparently no guarantee . . .
Really. jethro and jethro alone decides what is truth and what is not, which often bears no relation to what is put before his face, plain as day. No rebuttal, no reasoned argument, no logic, just "no no no no no; not true. waaaaaahhhhhh!"
If Clinton had tried to expand the effort to eradicate Bin Laden, Republicans would have claimed Wag The Dog... OH WAIT...they DID!
And the Republicans were right. Wag the Dog was the only reason he took the little action that he did. He should have resigned. THAT, is a fact.
In recent weeks, a long-brewing conspiratorial question managed to make its way off of loony web sites and onto the front page of the paper of record, the New York Times: What did Bush know, and when did he know it, before 9/11?
Seemingly lost in the “discussion” is any similar treatment of the former president with such what-and-when-did-he-know questions. Not about 9/11, but about Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda, or simply the general threat posed by radical Islam.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/joelmowbray/jm20040427.shtml
A source, please? Clarke testified under oath that when chatter was hot, like around the millenium, Clinton was meeting with the CIA chief, the head of the FBI and others every single day.
What is it like to be so driven by hatred? It doesn't seem like a very Christian attitude.
A source, please? Clarke testified under oath that when chatter was hot, like around the millenium, Clinton was meeting with the CIA chief, the head of the FBI and others every single day. Let me be more specific. The CIA couldn't get an appointment with Clinton. He apparently met with Clinton as part of a group. I'll see if I can locate that source.
Clinton wasn't going to put himself on the line for anything.
What is it like to be so driven by hatred? It doesn't seem like a very Christian attitude. I don't hate Clinton. He just shouldn't have been president. I see Clinton as a immature. He was unfit for the job because he would rather play than work. Clinton would be a fine guy to have a beer with but that is about it.
If you don't hate him, why do write post after post denying him credit for anything good that happened in eight years, and blaming him for thing that happened after he was out of office?
He got the votes. Twice.
What U.S. President has been either at his "ranch" in Texas, the family summer home in Kennebunkport, or Camp David for 40% of the time he's been in office? Whose reported typical day includes an hour of playing video games? George W. Bush.
Where did you see the video games information?
If you don't hate him, why do write post after post denying him credit for anything good that happened in eight years, and blaming him for thing that happened after he was out of office? Becuase I don't think he accomplished anything of value. I do not But that doesn't mean I hate him. But if the government under Clinton's watch had done its job there may not have been a 9/11. No gurantees of course but it would better for him if he could point to any real efforts to combat terrorism.
He just shouldn't have been president. He got the votes. Twice. So did Richard Nixon
I just don't understand why liberals keep defending Bill Clinton. They would have much more credibility if they would just say that Clinton was a self absorbed and narcissistic man that let his own personal desires get in the way of his job.
Muskwa, early on in the Bush administration there were a number of articles published about how everything runs to a strict schedule in the new White House, as opposed to the previous administration. GW goes to bed early, gets a full eight hours, yadda yadda yadda, and had both a scheduled exercise break and an afternoon break for Nintendo or other video games. It's at least as reliable as Jethro's claim that Clinton refused to meet with the CIA. I haven't been able to locate the original articles -- working on refining my search criteria.
jethro:
His counterterorism director, as well as a number of other Clinton administration officials have testified before the commission about the very real efforts that were made on Clinton's watch. If you've not been keeping up with the news, it's not my fault. Further, Clarke testified that if the current administration had gone into a Clinton-style full-court-press in the summer of 2001, as the intelligence chatter intensified, there's a chance that the attacks of 9/11 might have been prevented. Not a certainty, but a maybe.
Whose reported typical day included an hour of "playing" with the intern, and two hours of fighting with his wife?
:-)
Who cares if he plays video games?
Sometimes you need mindless fun to unwind.
I played video games for several hours yesterday.
But you're not running a war or an economy. And I'll bet you don't get to take vacations 40% of the time.
According to NewsMax, the Oval Office is closed at 6 p.m., whereas under Clinton the lights there were often on after midnight. PBS gives him credit for working 'til 7.
USA Today says:
Priorities, y'know.
But you're not running a war or an economy.
No I'm not. We all thank God for that. :-)
And I'll bet you don't get to take vacations 40% of the time.
They're working vacations. The President can work just as easily from Texas as he can from the oval office.
According to NewsMax, the Oval Office is closed at 6 p.m., whereas under Clinton the lights there were often on after midnight. PBS gives him credit for working 'til 7.
Well, when you're hung over in bed until 2:00PM....
There's also that intern issue. I mean, I'm sure it's easier slamming intern @ midnight when no one is around, than @ 3:00 when the office is full of people.
Clinton has a reputation for being one of the hardest working presidents we've ever had.
His counterterorism director, as well as a number of other Clinton administration officials have testified before the commission about the very real efforts that were made on Clinton's watch. They testified about nothing getting done.
Further, Clarke testified that if the current administration had gone into a Clinton-style full-court-press in the summer of 2001, as the intelligence chatter intensified, there's a chance that the attacks of 9/11 might have been prevented. Not a certainty, but a maybe. A "Clinton-style full-court-press" is a fantasy.
Sometimes you need mindless fun to unwind. I read crab's posts.
But you're not running a war or an economy. And I'll bet you don't get to take vacations 40% of the time.
Neither does Bush.
Clinton has a reputation for being one of the hardest working presidents we've ever had.
That was one of those urban legends fostered by Clinton himself. In other words it is just one of his numerous lies. This one just wasn't under oath.
nope...it's a reputation he has among those who worked with him.
Yea, he was working, sure, he was ;)
Yes...he was.
Rightieo then.
nope...it's a reputation he has among those who worked with him.
would those be his working girls?
jethro reminds me of someone holding his hands over his ears and going "lalalalalalalalalalala I can't HHHEEEAAAAARRRRRRR yoooooooooooo"
There's more to contradicting the sworn statements of people who were there, matters of public record, than writing "no he didn't, no he didn't" over and over again.
Here's a few excerpts from the statements of the vice-chairman of the 9/11 commission, just before the testimony of CIA Director George Tenet:
Let us have a moment of silence in memory of the defunct assertion that "Clinton did nothing against terrorism."
jethro reminds me of someone holding his hands over his ears and going "lalalalalalalalalalala I can't HHHEEEAAAAARRRRRRR yoooooooooooo" No that would be you and your ilk. Clinton did do nothing. Nothing was accomplished and he did nothing to get support from the American people to do anything. The only thing Clinton could do is talk and when he did no one knew if it was the truth or a lie. But that doesn't stop people like you from criticizing Bush. Clinton has nothing to show in this imaginary fight against terrorism for nearly eight years but people like you think Bush should have solved the problem in 8 months. It is just another sorry example of how dishonest your kind is, pieter.
Clinton has a reputation for being one of the hardest working presidents we've ever had
"Working hard" doesn't mean your working efficiently. Maybe he had to put in tons of hours just to keep up?
Yea, he was working, sure, he was ;)
Working that cigar.
justify all you like.
he got a lot done.
I don't hate Bill Clinton the way that many of my fellow conservatives do. I'm just playing around.
For the most part, I think things actually went pretty well for the country while he was president.
That being said, he is a slimey MoFo of a person.
I'd hate to hear your opinion of those you hate.
I post chapter and verse of a small fraction of what was done by the Clinton administration to combat terrorism in general and bin Laden in particular, and all jethro can do is scream "not so, not so, not so." There is none so blind as they that won't see.
jethro, your hate blinds you. You can't handle the truth, that a politician you despise actually might have had the best interests of the country at heart and done a few good things. You can't handle it, because in jethroworld it's all black/white good/evil, a true Manichean universe. The real world isn't like that, jethro, and we'll all be better off when you and your President realize it.
Clinton had live pictures of Bin Laden and did not act? Yeah, he really was on top of things.
"going Hollywood" indeed.
Grandpa Dan Zachary 4/27/04 10:37pm
Excellent links.
I'd hate to hear your opinion of those you hate.
He is slimey. I wouldn't invite the man in my house, that's for sure.
That doesn't mean I hate him.
Oh, you're just seething with hatred.
It's like you're going to explode.
Arrrggghhhhh!
I love it!
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bush has a JOB and ALWAYS will! And THAT'S a fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Torp is not Sloop.
Besides, Sloop earned his retirement.
I didn't even know you were retired.
Yep -- his whole life he's been coddled and cosseted by influence-seekers, just like his brother Neil. He'll never starve, no matter how many businesses he runs into the ground.
LOL JT! Fold's been retired since he was 21!
As usual pieter, sarcasm goes right over your head. But what's the difference, most things do anyway.
You didn't mention ALL of the story of the "Sighting" of Bin Laden, DAN. Conveniently.
That is what the link is for. Unlike some others here, I do provide links when possible.
Do you mean that he didn't even care enough to have anything within striking range just in case they saw something? Or do you mean that he treated it like a law enforcement problem?
From the same link...
Face it, Clinton was unable to deal with Osama and now President Bush has to.
Yep -- his whole life he's been coddled and cosseted by influence-seekers, just like his brother Neil.
But not to the extent that Al gore or Ted Kennedy were?
he got a lot done.
You really believe that?
I post chapter and verse of a small fraction of what was done by the Clinton administration to combat terrorism in general and bin Laden in particular, and all jethro can do is scream "not so, not so, not so." There is none so blind as they that won't see. What was done? Talk amongst themselves.
jethro, your hate blinds you. No not at all.You can't handle the truth, that a politician you despise actually might have had the best interests of the country at heart and done a few good things. Apparently you are as gullible as Madeline Albright.
no, I don't believe it...I know it.
why don't you just read what was posted?
why don't you just read what was posted?
I did. It was mostly talk about talk.
Hey, torp -- would you care to comment on the fact that the last four days have been extremely hot in California? Yesterday, the former heat record for the date in downtown Los Angeles was broken by eight degrees. I'm not claiming that this proves anything, but you do alert us every time it's cold in Minnesota.
By the way, there's a difference between sarcasm and satire; you could look it up. Satire is the sort of thing that goes over some people's heads. Maybe if you'd gone to a ritzy New England private school like GW Bush, you'd have learned something about the finer points of language. Um, wait a minute, that's apparently no guarantee . . .
the arrogance of the extreme left shows its face again.
Speaking of satire going over some folks' heads . . .
bodine found a mirror.
Really. jethro and jethro alone decides what is truth and what is not, which often bears no relation to what is put before his face, plain as day. No rebuttal, no reasoned argument, no logic, just "no no no no no; not true. waaaaaahhhhhh!"