When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Ya-hoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different.
Byron White
Why do you feel so threatened by someone doing the right thing just because it's the right thing to do, jethro? Why does that make me "an insensitive oaf that happens to be full of himself"? This is your comment that I was responding to specifically: "I am motivated neither by the promise of eternal reward not the threat of eternal punishment, and I don't believe that any thinking person feels otherwise."
I'm not trying to force people into my way of thinking, you are; No you are calling them idiots.that's being full of oneself. Your first response to my post -- "makes for good social order" -- seems to confirm the position of those who believe that religion by and large is not a search for truth but a means to control the masses. You only see what you want to see.
jethro, if "it makes for good social order" didn't mean that religion is a means of social control, please tell me what it did mean. I don't know what your point is, but Christianity is good for society and it is good for the individual.
so jesuit priests and salesian oblates are anti-christian bigots? I did not say that. I said "It is apparent that you have bought into the detractors and anti Christian bigots." And that is true. By implication you have rejected what you were taught priests and salesian oblates.
Most of my factual knowledge of catholicism comes from them So? As I said it is apparent that you have rejected it.
It is apparent that you have bought into the detractors and anti Christian bigots." And that is true. By implication you have rejected what you were taught priests and salesian oblates.
no, I don't listen to hyperbole
As I said it is apparent that you have rejected it.
that has what to do with religion? Most believers in religion do not take the time, nor have the faculties, to logically scrutinize their beliefs. those that have usually have to make huge assumptions, with no justification, for intitial basic beliefs such as "god exists"
not that I am trying to enforce what I think on anyone, I'm just letting you know this so you have some semblance of where I am coming from
and who exactly are you to decide what is and what is not good for the individual?
It is my opinion as a member of society based on observation. Apparetnly you don't think I should have an opinion. and who exactly are you to decide whether I should expres it?
that has what to do with religion? It cab have a lot.Most believers in religion do not take the time, nor have the faculties, to logically scrutinize their beliefs. those that have usually have to make huge assumptions, with no justification, for intitial basic beliefs such as "god exists" Proof that you think highly of yourself and think religious people are beneath you. But there is no logical reason to believe God does not exist.
not that I am trying to enforce what I think on anyone, I'm just letting you know this so you have some semblance of where I am coming from I doubt if you have the capabilities to enforce what you think on anyone. I can see that where you are coming from is unjustified pride in your intellegence.
It is my opinion as a member of society based on observation. Apparetnly you don't think I should have an opinion. and who exactly are you to decide whether I should expres it?
first off, its "apparently". second, its "express". third, i neither asserted, nro implied that you shouldn't have an opinion. merely that it is not your place, to determine what is and what is not good for me, the individual.
first off, its "apparently". second, its "express". third, i neither asserted, nro implied that you shouldn't have an opinion. merely that it is not your place, to determine what is and what is not good for me, the individual.
That would be "I" and "nor"! I don't have the power to determine what is and is not good for you. Even if I did I wouldn't have the power to enforce it. But that doesn't chnage the fact that Christinaity is good for society and the indvidual.
You are unable or unwilling to understand, crabs. Suffice it to say there is right or wrong outside of what your little mind can comprehend.
I can't understand something you do not state.
If you can't state just what the definition of this "one true morality" is, I cannot understand what your definition of this "one true morality" is...not because I can't understand it...but simply because it has not been stated.
you have to actually have something to not understand before you can not understand it.
the fact is, you can't even provide a definition for your "one true morality".
so your argument is, because I can't understand it, god exists? lmao
More foolish arrogance.
or lack thereof in the case of those who use fiction to explain the unexplainable
You BELIEVE it is fiction. If it is unexplainable it may due to your limited intellect. If you are saying that certain things are unexplainable then you can't say with certainity that a proposed explanation is necessarily fiction.
I don't have the power to determine what is and is not good for you.
Even if I did I wouldn't have the power to enforce it. But that doesn't chnage the fact that Christinaity is good for society and the indvidual.
then scratch off "and the individual".
Yes there is just look around you. If you have children it is a lot easier to see.
let's see. a sperm cell penetrated an egg cell, fertilizing it. it implanted in the uterus of the female, who eventually gave birth to it. it grew up from an infant to a child, to an adult, and then died, returning its composite atoms to the earth whence it came. that's a logical reason to believe god exists? can i interest you in some swamp land?
the fact is, jethro, that you and i as christians believethat god exists. we have no tangible concrete proof that he exists. again, that's why its called faith.
interesting, isn't it that you didn't address that bit of my post?
If the basis of the "one true morality" is the Bible, shall we start with the Law as expressed in the Old Testament, and make cheeseburgers and polyester-blend clothing illegal?
let's see. a sperm cell penetrated an egg cell, fertilizing it. it implanted in the uterus of the female, who eventually gave birth to it. it grew up from an infant to a child, to an adult, and then died, returning its composite atoms to the earth whence it came. that's a logical reason to believe god exists?
If the basis of the "one true morality" is the Bible, shall we start with the Law as expressed in the Old Testament, and make cheeseburgers and polyester-blend clothing illegal?
Why do you feel so threatened by someone doing the right thing just because it's the right thing to do, jethro? Why does that make me "an insensitive oaf that happens to be full of himself"? This is your comment that I was responding to specifically: "I am motivated neither by the promise of eternal reward not the threat of eternal punishment, and
I don't believe that any thinking person feels otherwise."
I'm not trying to force people into my way of thinking, you are; No you are calling them idiots.that's being full of oneself. Your first response to my post -- "makes for good social order" -- seems to confirm the position of those who believe that religion by and large is not a search for truth but a means to control the masses. You only see what you want to see.
It is apparent that you have bought into the detractors and anti Christian bigots
I have done no such thing.
Anyone that has read your posts knows its true.
Anyone that has read your posts knows its true.
yes, we all know how many anti-christian bigots I ran into at catholic schools
pieter's a pretty bright dude, no matter how you try to detract from that I disagree.
it was a compliment, I don't need allies here to take on the likes of you and jethro No you just need to ignore the truth.
yes, we all know how many anti-christian bigots I ran into at catholic schools
It doesn't matter what you learned, or more accurately didn't learn, in school. Anyone can see what you are.
jethro, if "it makes for good social order" didn't mean that religion is a means of social control, please tell me what it did mean.
THX, thank you -- I think you'd be a real interesting guy to sit down with over a beer or two.
It doesn't matter what you learned, or more accurately didn't learn, in school. Anyone can see what you are.
so jesuit priests and salesian oblates are anti-christian bigots? Most of my factual knowledge of catholicism comes from them
jethro, if "it makes for good social order" didn't mean that religion is a means of social control, please tell me what it did mean. I don't know what your point is, but Christianity is good for society and it is good for the individual.
so jesuit priests and salesian oblates are anti-christian bigots? I did not say that. I said "It is apparent that you have bought into the detractors and anti Christian bigots." And that is true. By implication you have rejected what you were taught priests and salesian oblates.
Most of my factual knowledge of catholicism comes from them So? As I said it is apparent that you have rejected it.
It is apparent that you have bought into the detractors and anti Christian bigots." And that is true. By implication you have rejected what you were taught priests and salesian oblates.
no, I don't listen to hyperbole
As I said it is apparent that you have rejected it.
because it makes no logical sense
because it makes no logical sense
You think mighty highly of yourself, don't you?
and it is good for the individual.
and who exactly are you to decide what is and what is not good for the individual?
You think mighty highly of yourself, don't you?
that has what to do with religion? Most believers in religion do not take the time, nor have the faculties, to logically scrutinize their beliefs. those that have usually have to make huge assumptions, with no justification, for intitial basic beliefs such as "god exists"
not that I am trying to enforce what I think on anyone, I'm just letting you know this so you have some semblance of where I am coming from
THX, thank you -- I think you'd be a real interesting guy to sit down with over a beer or two.
I'm really not that interesting, but if you're ever in the Twin Cities, let me know.
Maybe I could get Luv2Fly to come along. I've been trying to meet him in person for years, but he always has excuses.
Actually, anytime any of you happen to be in the Twin Cities, let me know. I'd love to hook up with some of you in person.
and who exactly are you to decide what is and what is not good for the individual?
It is my opinion as a member of society based on observation. Apparetnly you don't think I should have an opinion. and who exactly are you to decide whether I should expres it?
It is my opinion as a member of society based on observation.
this defeats your absolutist position
that has what to do with religion? It cab have a lot.Most believers in religion do not take the time, nor have the faculties, to logically scrutinize their beliefs. those that have usually have to make huge assumptions, with no justification, for intitial basic beliefs such as "god exists" Proof that you think highly of yourself and think religious people are beneath you. But there is no logical reason to believe God does not exist.
not that I am trying to enforce what I think on anyone, I'm just letting you know this so you have some semblance of where I am coming from I doubt if you have the capabilities to enforce what you think on anyone. I can see that where you are coming from is unjustified pride in your intellegence.
It is my opinion as a member of society based on observation.
this defeats your absolutist position
It defeats nothing. Because there is an absolute morality beyond me or you as an individual.
It is my opinion as a member of society based on observation. Apparetnly you don't think I should have an opinion. and who exactly are you to decide whether I should expres it?
first off, its "apparently". second, its "express". third, i neither asserted, nro implied that you shouldn't have an opinion. merely that it is not your place, to determine what is and what is not good for me, the individual.
But there is no logical reason to believe God does not exist.
nor is there a logical reason to believe that god does exist. that's why its called faith, and as christians, we are called believers.
first off, its "apparently". second, its "express". third, i neither asserted, nro implied that you shouldn't have an opinion. merely that it is not your place, to determine what is and what is not good for me, the individual.
That would be "I" and "nor"! I don't have the power to determine what is and is not good for you. Even if I did I wouldn't have the power to enforce it. But that doesn't chnage the fact that Christinaity is good for society and the indvidual.
nor is there a logical reason to believe that god does exist
Yes there is just look around you. If you have children it is a lot easier to see.
worst argument ever
it is apparent reason and logic does not matter to you
worst argument ever
Are you a child? Look around and see the complexity. Then ask yourself can such complexity be by accident? The logical answer is no.
it is apparent reason and logic does not matter to you
It is apparent that human intellgence, despite its obvious flaws which are apparent in you, is preeminent to you.
I can't understand something you do not state.
If you can't state just what the definition of this "one true morality" is, I cannot understand what your definition of this "one true morality" is...not because I can't understand it...but simply because it has not been stated.
you have to actually have something to not understand before you can not understand it.
the fact is, you can't even provide a definition for your "one true morality".
that much is clearly understood.
Then ask yourself can such complexity be by accident? The logical answer is no.
so your argument is, because I can't understand it, god exists? lmao
Worst argument ever
It is apparent that human intellgence, despite its obvious flaws which are apparent in you, is preeminent to you.
or lack thereof in the case of those who use fiction to explain the unexplainable
human intelligence isn't very apparent.
so your argument is, because I can't understand it, god exists? lmao
More foolish arrogance.
or lack thereof in the case of those who use fiction to explain the unexplainable
You BELIEVE it is fiction. If it is unexplainable it may due to your limited intellect. If you are saying that certain things are unexplainable then you can't say with certainity that a proposed explanation is necessarily fiction.
I don't have the power to determine what is and is not good for you.
Even if I did I wouldn't have the power to enforce it. But that doesn't chnage the fact that Christinaity is good for society and the indvidual.
then scratch off "and the individual".
Yes there is just look around you. If you have children it is a lot easier to see.
let's see. a sperm cell penetrated an egg cell, fertilizing it. it implanted in the uterus of the female, who eventually gave birth to it. it grew up from an infant to a child, to an adult, and then died, returning its composite atoms to the earth whence it came. that's a logical reason to believe god exists? can i interest you in some swamp land?
the fact is, jethro, that you and i as christians believethat god exists. we have no tangible concrete proof that he exists. again, that's why its called faith.
interesting, isn't it that you didn't address that bit of my post?
human intelligence isn't very apparent.
Must you make meaningless comments that have nothing to do with anything anyone has said?
If the basis of the "one true morality" is the Bible, shall we start with the Law as expressed in the Old Testament, and make cheeseburgers and polyester-blend clothing illegal?
let's see. a sperm cell penetrated an egg cell, fertilizing it. it implanted in the uterus of the female, who eventually gave birth to it. it grew up from an infant to a child, to an adult, and then died, returning its composite atoms to the earth whence it came. that's a logical reason to believe god exists?
All the complexity is all an accident to you?
More foolish arrogance.
I'll take that as a white flag
interesting, isn't it that you didn't address that bit of my post?
I think I did.
I'll take that as a white flag
even more foolish arrogance.
All the complexity is all an accident to you?
i'm not saying it was. i happen to believethat god exists. its not something i personally need proof of. again, its called faith for a reason.
I think I did.
you didn't address a damn thing. specifically, you completely skipped the point that christianity is nothing more than a belief system.
If the basis of the "one true morality" is the Bible, shall we start with the Law as expressed in the Old Testament, and make cheeseburgers and polyester-blend clothing illegal?
Yea, on the polyester-blend clothing.
:-)
that christianity is nothing more than a belief system.
You may think that. But I don't really know what you are asking. If the question is do I believe that it is "nothing more" the answer is no.
make cheeseburgers.....illegal
The health Nazis will go along with that!
ok then, let me take this one tiny step at a time.
you believe you will go to heaven when you die, right?
why or why not?
even more foolish arrogance.
even more admittance to refuse to debate what was actually said
I'm in favor of banning polyester blends, but not linen or silk blends; stone me for a heretic.
and when you're done answering those questions, jethro, let me ask you if you're a sinner?
you believe you will go to heaven when you die, right?
why or why not?
I don't know. Because I don't know if I have made the grade, so to speak.
even more admittance to refuse to debate what was actually said
Demon, you haven't said anything that is worth the time.
and when you're done answering those questions, jethro, let me ask you if you're a sinner?
everyone is a sinner.
Demon, you haven't said anything that is worth the time.
yet you respond to me every time, like clock work. Face it, I'm in your head, buddy
I don't know. Because I don't know if I have made the grade, so to speak.
ok then, what is the significance of good friday and easter?
everyone is a sinner.
i'm truly impressed.