When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Ya-hoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different.
Grandpa Dan Zachary
I doubt it...they held the same beliefs.
Really? So they accepted paganism, Magick, atheism, etc. like your "church" does?
simply not true.
Explain.
so, your Church doesn't believe in fellowship?
Yes they do, but it is only one reason for being there.
UU just recognizes this and believes that in order to better understand the one thing, one should learn all the different stories that try to explain it.
Bull. The UUs deny that one God exists in three Persons. Instead, they claim that Trinitarian doctrine was added by the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. Some do not believe that God is our creator, but instead claim he is an impersonal spirit, a natural force, or a principle. Some even claim that He is a created being, not supernatural. Others even deny His existence completely. You yourself have claimed it to be a fairy tale. The UUs have become so liberal that they deny almost every doctrine of the Christian faith, replacing the worship of God with a worship of self.
They accept and embrace anything that comes their way from paganism to Marxism to UFOlogy is acceptable to them.
Really? So they accepted paganism, Magick, atheism, etc. like your "church" does?
they accepted that other people have other beliefs, yes.
Yes they do, but it is only one reason for being there.
and that isn't fellowship?
The UUs deny that one God exists in three Persons.
they accept member who believe in the Trinity.
Instead, they claim that Trinitarian doctrine was added by the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325.
so, what DID the Council of Nicaea do then?
Some do not believe that God is our creator, but instead claim he is an impersonal spirit, a natural force, or a principle. Some even claim that He is a created being, not supernatural. Others even deny His existence completely. You yourself have claimed it to be a fairy tale.
and the UU accepts them all.
The UUs have become so liberal that they deny almost every doctrine of the Christian faith, replacing the worship of God with a worship of self.
the UU deny nothing. they allow (even encourage) their members to question in order to find one's true sense of spirituality.
you seem to think that there can't be a liberal Church.
That spirituality is somehow the sole domain of the conservative mind.
Classically, Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being, not a supernatural being.
And about the Bible?
We do not, however, hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary.
Yeah, sounds like they are really encouraging you to seek out your own truth.
So does my church, but that doesn't mean that they embrace those teachings.
niether do many Unitarians.
that doesn't change the fact that they accept that some do.
Classically, Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being, not a supernatural being.
I fail to see where this says that the Church denies anything. It says that often it's Christian members believed something different than "traditional" Christians do...but so what?
We do not, however, hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary.
Yeah, sounds like they are really encouraging you to seek out your own truth.
that's EXACTLY what it sounds like.
do you deny that the Bible has mythical and legendary qualities? Or do you literally believe everything in it to be the absolute truth and not metaphors and stories?
It is amazing sometimes to watch you run in circles. You know that they deny the diety of Christ and that it is in their website.
Among us, Jesus' very human life and teaching have been understood as products of, and in line with, the great Jewish tradition of prophets and teachers. He neither broke with that tradition nor superseded it.
and understand Christianity is one of the reasons for being at a UU, but not the main one.
Exactly, it is the main one in my church.
the UU accepts the fact that human beings have differing beliefs and helps them to understand these and other beliefs.
If this were even true, their services must be a disaster. How do you sing a song to or worship Christ/Buhda/Gaaia/Zeus/etc. at the same time? What if you are atheist, how do you fit in then? The whole concept makes no sense.
do you deny that the Bible has mythical and legendary qualities? Or do you literally believe everything in it to be the absolute truth and not metaphors and stories?
I believe that Jesus did use stories to get his point across at times, but I do not believe that "Much biblical material is mythical or legendary".
so, your Church it the only kind of Church there is?
If this were even true, their services must be a disaster. How do you sing a song to or worship Christ/Buhda/Gaaia/Zeus/etc. at the same time? What if you are atheist, how do you fit in then? The whole concept makes no sense.
I believe that Jesus did use stories to get his point across at times, but I do not believe that "Much biblical material is mythical or legendary".
so, you believe that, since if you add up the ages of various people in the Bible since Adam and Eve...that it was only maybe 6000 years ago that God created the world?
so, your Church it the only kind of Church there is?
Are you asking if my church is the only type of church there is? (typo?) If so, no, there is others of course. I happen to believe in the Christian faith and attend a church that teaches that. Why should I attend and worship in a church that does not?
why don't you visit one and find out?
Because from their website, they deny the diety of Christ. I do not wish to worship in a church that does that as well as blowing off the bible as mere myth and legend.
so, you believe that, since if you add up the ages of various people in the Bible since Adam and Eve...that it was only maybe 6000 years ago that God created the world?
The bible also claims that a day is like a thousand years to God, so I do not know nor have I took the time to study how old the bible says the world is.
It is more like a social club for those that wish to claim they go to church without going to a real church.
So, you think that the only REAL church is one that is one that affirms the deity of Christ.
I do not wish to worship in a church that does that as well as blowing off the bible as mere myth and legend.
I said to visit one...find out about these "weird" services they have. Meet some of them. Ask a few questions before you judge them. I didn't say to join the UU and worship there....although if you wanted to worship there (even worship Jesus as a deity), I'm sure they would have no problem with it)
The bible also claims that a day is like a thousand years to God, so I do not know nor have I took the time to study how old the bible says the world is.
but we aren't talking about God, we are talking about the human beings in the Bible...from Adam on...you do the math on their ages and the world is maybe 6000 years old.
Then where does the idea that murder is wrong come from? It comes from somewhere as do all moral standards. If you want a good answer read the first part of C.S.Lewis' Mere Christianity
Without a set of beliefs that guide behavior, religion means nothing. These Catholic politicians are essentially asking that the Church debase itself so that they can get re-elected on a platform contradictory to Catholicism. They are asking the Church to discard its right of free speech and to subvert its own values for sake of personal political gain. This makes me wonder: Do these Democrats care about religion at all, or is that just another political weapon in their arsenal? If so, it's about time the Church disarmed them.
If I understand Roman Catholic dogma correctly, the Church opposes the death penalty as vigorously as it does abortion. Why is it that the bishops only criticize politicians who differ with the Church's policy on abortion? Could it be that they read the polls, and know that opposing capital punishment as outspokenly as they do abortion would be political suicide for the Church?
So, you think that the only REAL church is one that is one that affirms the deity of Christ
There are differing beliefs for different churches. These churches believe in something. What I have seen of the UU is that they do not believe in anything. There is no stated opinion on any type of belief system at all. How you can call it a church when there are atheist involved is beyond me. It is literally the church of liberalism. Anything goes and nothing matters.
Ask a few questions before you judge them.
I have researched them through their websites and have found them to not believe in a stated opinion. There is wiccans, pagans, belief in Greek gods, humanitarians, etc. Like I said, it is an anything goes "church".
but we aren't talking about God, we are talking about the human beings in the Bible...from Adam on...
I am going by the bible where it says it took 7 days to create everything. Humans were not the first day. I do not know if this would be 7-24 hour days or if it was refering to the 1,000 year days as was discussed in the bible.
As for doing the math, I really have no desire or time to sit down and figure out exactly who was how old and who would be next in line at what time, etc., just to argue on the internet. Even if I did, this still would not answer my earlier question about 24 hour days.
Whatever, Crabs. Like I said, I do not have the time to go through all that research and figuring.
others already have...
However, lest we be too concerned, every honest attempt to determine the date, starting with a deep commitment to the inerrancy of God's Word, has calculated a span of just a few thousand years, most likely close to 6000 years, since creation. The largest figure I've ever seen from a trustworthy scholar is approximately 15,000 years, but even this seems to stretch the Biblical data too far.
Suffice it to say that no one could conclude that Scripture specifically places Creation any longer ago than a few thousand years, and to my knowledge no one does. Many do hold to an older position, but not for Scriptural reasons. They are convinced by radioisotope dating, perhaps, or maybe the molecular clock of mutation rates, or some other line of thinking, but not from Scripture.
The Bible is clear that Adam, the first man, lived only 6000 years ago. Adam was created on the sixth day of God's Creation Week, so the earth must be only 6000 years old too.
Well, I agree with you that it's hypocritical to be anti abortion but pro capital punishment.
No it isn't. Capital punishment is what it says it is punishment for ones actions. There is no hypocrisy in protecting the innocent and killing murderers.
We can agree to disagree but it doesn't appear that you have made any effort to underestand the distinction. It is the one thing that really distinguishes liberals from conservatives that there is objective right and wrong.
I doubt it...they held the same beliefs.
Really? So they accepted paganism, Magick, atheism, etc. like your "church" does?
simply not true.
Explain.
so, your Church doesn't believe in fellowship?
Yes they do, but it is only one reason for being there.
UU just recognizes this and believes that in order to better understand the one thing, one should learn all the different stories that try to explain it.
Bull. The UUs deny that one God exists in three Persons. Instead, they claim that Trinitarian doctrine was added by the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. Some do not believe that God is our creator, but instead claim he is an impersonal spirit, a natural force, or a principle. Some even claim that He is a created being, not supernatural. Others even deny His existence completely. You yourself have claimed it to be a fairy tale. The UUs have become so liberal that they deny almost every doctrine of the Christian faith, replacing the worship of God with a worship of self.
They accept and embrace anything that comes their way from paganism to Marxism to UFOlogy is acceptable to them.
they accepted that other people have other beliefs, yes.
and that isn't fellowship?
they accept member who believe in the Trinity.
so, what DID the Council of Nicaea do then?
and the UU accepts them all.
the UU deny nothing. they allow (even encourage) their members to question in order to find one's true sense of spirituality.
you seem to think that there can't be a liberal Church.
That spirituality is somehow the sole domain of the conservative mind.
It's not.
I thought you said they deny those who believe the Trinity?
which is it?
they accepted that other people have other beliefs, yes.
So does my church, but that doesn't mean that they embrace those teachings.
and that isn't fellowship?
Like I said, it is one reason for being there and not the main one.
and the UU accepts them all.
So the UU believes in everything and nothing at the same time?
the UU deny nothing. they allow (even encourage) their members to question in order to find one's true sense of spirituality.
Then why do you call my beliefs fairy tales?
you seem to think that there can't be a liberal Church.
That spirituality is somehow the sole domain of the conservative mind.
I do not know where you got that from. A church should not be liberal or conservative. It should be based on the belief in God.
I thought you said they deny those who believe the Trinity?
which is it?
Show me where I said such a thing. I said that they deny such a belief.
From their website...
Classically, Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being, not a supernatural being.
And about the Bible?
We do not, however, hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary.
Yeah, sounds like they are really encouraging you to seek out your own truth.
niether do many Unitarians.
that doesn't change the fact that they accept that some do.
I fail to see where this says that the Church denies anything. It says that often it's Christian members believed something different than "traditional" Christians do...but so what?
and understand Christianity is one of the reasons for being at a UU, but not the main one.
so what?
the UU accepts the factthat human beings have differing beliefs and helps them to understand these and other beliefs.
because I questioned them and investigated them and found them to be fairy tales.
I'm not a UU Church, BTW.
that's EXACTLY what it sounds like.
do you deny that the Bible has mythical and legendary qualities? Or do you literally believe everything in it to be the absolute truth and not metaphors and stories?
It is amazing sometimes to watch you run in circles. You know that they deny the diety of Christ and that it is in their website.
and understand Christianity is one of the reasons for being at a UU, but not the main one.
Exactly, it is the main one in my church.
the UU accepts the fact that human beings have differing beliefs and helps them to understand these and other beliefs.
If this were even true, their services must be a disaster. How do you sing a song to or worship Christ/Buhda/Gaaia/Zeus/etc. at the same time? What if you are atheist, how do you fit in then? The whole concept makes no sense.
do you deny that the Bible has mythical and legendary qualities? Or do you literally believe everything in it to be the absolute truth and not metaphors and stories?
I believe that Jesus did use stories to get his point across at times, but I do not believe that "Much biblical material is mythical or legendary".
so, your Church it the only kind of Church there is?
why don't you visit one and find out?
they will accept you.
so, you believe that, since if you add up the ages of various people in the Bible since Adam and Eve...that it was only maybe 6000 years ago that God created the world?
so, your Church it the only kind of Church there is?
Are you asking if my church is the only type of church there is? (typo?) If so, no, there is others of course. I happen to believe in the Christian faith and attend a church that teaches that. Why should I attend and worship in a church that does not?
why don't you visit one and find out?
Because from their website, they deny the diety of Christ. I do not wish to worship in a church that does that as well as blowing off the bible as mere myth and legend.
so, you believe that, since if you add up the ages of various people in the Bible since Adam and Eve...that it was only maybe 6000 years ago that God created the world?
The bible also claims that a day is like a thousand years to God, so I do not know nor have I took the time to study how old the bible says the world is.
So, you think that the only REAL church is one that is one that affirms the deity of Christ.
I said to visit one...find out about these "weird" services they have. Meet some of them. Ask a few questions before you judge them. I didn't say to join the UU and worship there....although if you wanted to worship there (even worship Jesus as a deity), I'm sure they would have no problem with it)
but we aren't talking about God, we are talking about the human beings in the Bible...from Adam on...you do the math on their ages and the world is maybe 6000 years old.
Then where does the idea that murder is wrong come from? It comes from somewhere as do all moral standards. If you want a good answer read the first part of C.S.Lewis' Mere Christianity
The divine command theory is fallacious.
If you want a good answer, read the Philoh
Without a set of beliefs that guide behavior, religion means nothing. These Catholic politicians are essentially asking that the Church debase itself so that they can get re-elected on a platform contradictory to Catholicism. They are asking the Church to discard its right of free speech and to subvert its own values for sake of personal political gain. This makes me wonder: Do these Democrats care about religion at all, or is that just another political weapon in their arsenal? If so, it's about time the Church disarmed them.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/bs20040523.shtml
If I understand Roman Catholic dogma correctly, the Church opposes the death penalty as vigorously as it does abortion. Why is it that the bishops only criticize politicians who differ with the Church's policy on abortion? Could it be that they read the polls, and know that opposing capital punishment as outspokenly as they do abortion would be political suicide for the Church?
pretty sure they opposed the Iraq war as well.
So, you think that the only REAL church is one that is one that affirms the deity of Christ
There are differing beliefs for different churches. These churches believe in something. What I have seen of the UU is that they do not believe in anything. There is no stated opinion on any type of belief system at all. How you can call it a church when there are atheist involved is beyond me. It is literally the church of liberalism. Anything goes and nothing matters.
Ask a few questions before you judge them.
I have researched them through their websites and have found them to not believe in a stated opinion. There is wiccans, pagans, belief in Greek gods, humanitarians, etc. Like I said, it is an anything goes "church".
but we aren't talking about God, we are talking about the human beings in the Bible...from Adam on...
I am going by the bible where it says it took 7 days to create everything. Humans were not the first day. I do not know if this would be 7-24 hour days or if it was refering to the 1,000 year days as was discussed in the bible.
As for doing the math, I really have no desire or time to sit down and figure out exactly who was how old and who would be next in line at what time, etc., just to argue on the internet. Even if I did, this still would not answer my earlier question about 24 hour days.
Why is it that the bishops only criticize politicians who differ with the Church's policy on abortion?
They do criticize the others as well, you just do not hear about it in the news. See hereand here
I am talking about after it says the earth was created.
Whatever, Crabs. Like I said, I do not have the time to go through all that research and figuring.
others already have...
http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-074b.htm
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/earthsage.html
so, Dan...do you believe that the earth is only around 6000 years old?
for that matter, do you believe that the earth is fixed in space and immovable? That did doesn't move and therefor doesn't revolve around the sun?
Get back to me when they threaten to withhold the sacrament of Communion from those who oppose the death penalty or support the war in Iraq.
pretty sure they opposed the Iraq war as well.
What do you expect from child molestors?
pretty much what you would expect. condemn the pro-choice politicians but don't condemn the ones advocating war.
hypocricy.
that's what I expect...and it's what we get.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn they have serious investments in weapons companies and are covering it up.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn they have serious investments in weapons companies and are covering it up.
Don't forget those nuns manufacturing electric chairs.
some nuns who actually did something about their anti-war beliefs.
Well, I agree with you that it's hypocritical to be anti abortion but pro capital punishment.
As far as the war nuns, throw em in jail.
They do criticize the others as well, you just do not hear about it in the news. See here and here
Could it be due to the fact the media agrees with the Church on capital punishement but not abortion?
Well, I agree with you that it's hypocritical to be anti abortion but pro capital punishment.
No it isn't. Capital punishment is what it says it is punishment for ones actions. There is no hypocrisy in protecting the innocent and killing murderers.
Well, I disagree with you, Jethro.
I wonder if the fruitcakes at TAPA know?
be that as it may, JT, it is consitent to be against abortion and for the death penalty. All human life isn't equal.
lmao
that is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard
that is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard
Only some as ignorant as you would think that. Weigh the life of Adolf Hitler with that of Jonas Salk or Mother Teresa.
All human life isn't equal.
By that logic, it should be ok to abort some babies.
Just those that aren't "equal" of course.
By that logic, it should be ok to abort some babies.
No, not when the standard is based on an individual's actions.
I've seen some very bad babies!
exactly THX, give that boy his medicine!
JT, it is a question of knowing right from wrong.
Are you always such an idiot, Demon?
are you always such a hypocrite?
are you always such a hypocrite?
I am not. Apparently you don't know what the word means.
saying how one life is worth more than another, then chastising people for aborting lives that are not lives yet?
but they are living human beings. I can't help that you ignore that fact. It is a fact and your denial just shows how big of an idiot you are.
JT, it is a question of knowing right from wrong.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, Jethro.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, Jethro.
We can agree to disagree but it doesn't appear that you have made any effort to underestand the distinction. It is the one thing that really distinguishes liberals from conservatives that there is objective right and wrong.
but they are living human beings. I can't help that you ignore that fact. It is a fact and your denial just shows how big of an idiot you are.
yes, but you said some lives are wirth more than others.
this would make abortion acceptable
and it would make you a hypocrite
We can agree to disagree but it doesn't appear that you have made any effort to underestand the distinction.
Sure I have, and I do.
I just don't happen to agree with you that capital punishment is just. In my minds eye it's as barbaric as murder or abortion.
It is the one thing that really distinguishes liberals from conservatives that there is objective right and wrong.
I know many Liberals that know right from wrong, but I disagree with them on fiscal issues.
I know many Conservatives that don't know right from wrong, but I agree with them on fiscal issues.