Bill, I agree, it would be nice to have a candidate who was more like one of our Founding Fathers. I'm not sure one of those even exists!
Crabs, Vietnam wasn't World War II, where it was necessary for everyone to contribute to the war effort. What people did to avoid going to Vietnam was considered, then, to be the intelligent thing to do. And what Bush and Cheney and Clinton did was legal. The whole country turned against the war and the draft. It's hypocritical to turn around and now say that what they did was dishonorable.
Kerry fought in that war, honorably by most accounts, and he did after all volunteer to go. But it doesn't give him, or anyone else, a warrant to condemn those who didn't. There were excellent reasons to avoid going.
"Still, Tenet's resignation signals the beginning of the breakup of a foreign policy team that has taken the country through the Sept. 11 crisis and two wars over the past 3 1/2 years.
You'd think the Lefties would be happy. Considering what a shitty job Dubya and his team are doing.
Time to mix it up, and get some fresh blood in there.
Caspar Weinberger Richard Secord Richard Miller John Poindexter Robert McFarlane Clair George Elliott Abrams Albert Fiers Albert Hakim Thomas Clines Otto Reich John Negroponte Rogelio Pardo-Maurer
although several (John Poindexter, Elliott Abrams, Otto Reich, John Negroponte, Rogelio Pardo-Maurer) have already received appointments from GW, they still have a bunch of guys to go.
heh-heh, all vets are suppose to follow along with your radical lock-step views without question? You're as popular with your fellow vets as you are here. Suprise-Suprise!
Geez Fold, i would have been there but i had to do that thing called work.
I NEVERn would have believed that Veterans would do such things, to other Veterans, just because they back one guy over the other.
Why not, that's what Kerry did, he did it to Vets and to those who were still there. I think what the guy said to you is 100% wrong and inexcusible. (Although that was somehow my fault) That's why I disagree with Kerry too. Castigating an entire group of people as drugged out murderous thugs who most had served honorably is disgusting. Protest all you want, hey hey ho, ho, Nixon's got to go etc. etc. Fine. But to cast them all in that light was bullshit, most served with honor and diginity. It was wrong for that guy to say that to you and it was wrong for Kerry to do the same. Support him if you want, I personally can never forgive him for those false words.
THX, I remember when you said something like..."Well, now that republicans DO control all three branches of Gvoernment, they had better do a good job, or I will be pissed...", or something to that effect?
I did say something to that extent, and truthfully, I'm not happy with them.
However, Kerry is no alternative in my mind. I'd rather stick with Dubya than vote for that turd.
Reagan's Office Disputes Reports That His Death Is Imminent
By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: June 6, 2004
LOS ANGELES, June 5 - Former President Ronald Reagan's health has markedly worsened in recent days, friends and associates said on Saturday, but his office denied that his condition had changed.
The news media reported widely on Saturday morning that Mr. Reagan was near death.
In response, Joanne Drake, the former president's chief of staff here, said, "Rumors are rampant, but there has been no significant change or rapid deterioration of any kind."
"Of course," Ms. Drake added, "he's 93 and he has Alzheimer's."
She said the Reagan office here had received nearly 300 calls in the last two days inquiring about Mr. Reagan's health. She said that if there were any substantial change in his condition she would issue a statement.
The Reagan biographer Lou Cannon said that it was his understanding that the former president was in "bad shape." "It could come at any time or he could last a while longer," Mr. Cannon said from his home near Santa Barbara.
A family friend said he had been told about a week ago that Mr. Reagan had taken a turn for the worse, and another family friend said that Mr. Reagan was now "completely nonresponsive" and that doctors did not expect him to live much longer.
A spokesman for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said that he had received no official notification of any change in Mr. Reagan's condition, and the White House said it had no comment.
Mr. Reagan announced that he had Alzheimer's disease in 1994 and remained largely at his home in the Bel Air section of Los Angeles under the care of his wife, Nancy. He has not been seen in public in years and reports periodically surface that he is near death.
Mrs. Reagan, at a fund-raising dinner here last month for diabetes research, made a plea for accelerated research using embryonic stem cells, saying such work could lead to a cure or treatment for Alzheimer's and other diseases.
"Ronnie's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him," she said. "Because of this, I'm determined to do whatever I can to save other families from this pain. I just don't see how we can turn our backs on this."
and what it says now...
Reagan's Health Has Worsened Sharply, Associates Say
By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: June 6, 2004
LOS ANGELES, June 5 - Former President Ronald Reagan's health has markedly worsened in recent days, friends and associates said on Saturday, but his office denied that his condition had changed.
The news media reported widely on Saturday morning that Mr. Reagan was near death.
In response, Joanne Drake, the former president's chief of staff here, said, "Rumors are rampant, but there has been no significant change or rapid deterioration of any kind."
"Of course," Ms. Drake added, "he's 93 and he has Alzheimer's."
She said the Reagan office here had received nearly 300 calls in the last two days inquiring about Mr. Reagan's health. She said that if there were any substantial change in his condition she would issue a statement.
The Reagan biographer Lou Cannon said that it was his understanding that the former president was in "bad shape." "It could come at any time or he could last a while longer," Mr. Cannon said from his home near Santa Barbara.
A family friend said he had been told about a week ago that Mr. Reagan had taken a turn for the worse, and another family friend said that Mr. Reagan was now "completely nonresponsive" and that doctors did not expect him to live much longer.
A spokesman for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said that he had received no official notification of any change in Mr. Reagan's condition, and the White House said it had no comment.
Mr. Reagan announced that he had Alzheimer's disease in 1994 and remained largely at his home in the Bel Air section of Los Angeles under the care of his wife, Nancy. He has not been seen in public in years and reports periodically surface that he is near death.
Mrs. Reagan, at a fund-raising dinner here last month for diabetes research, made a plea for accelerated research using embryonic stem cells, saying such work could lead to a cure or treatment for Alzheimer's and other diseases.
"Ronnie's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him," she said. "Because of this, I'm determined to do whatever I can to save other families from this pain. I just don't see how we can turn our backs on this."
leave it to Ronnie to deny knowldge of even his own death
And leave it to you to drag his name through the mud within an hour of the announcement of his passing. I feel bad for the family having to not only go through the passing of a loved one, but for the following days and weeks that will surely bring more of this type of mudslinging.
Come on Crabs, give it a rest for just one day. Let the body get cold before you start with all the crap again. I do not remember anyone here jumping all over Wellstone when he passed. Give the family time to morn first.
So the G8 countries, meeting this week at Sea Island, are inviting nearly all the Arab nations, with the exception of Qatar. The reason? -- it has a free press.
During the week, the New York Times reports that the G8 leaders will issue a declaration hailing democracy in the Middle East. Many countries are not bringing delegations, but some of the more open ones, like Jordan will be attending.
Qatar isn't invited because its the home of Al-Jazeera, "which the administration has accused of inciting anti-American violence in Iraq," says the Times.
In the declaration, the G8 countries will have proposals for women's rights, open elections, literacy, and (yo!) a free press.
"It's strange, having a summit declaration on democratic reforms and not inviting a country because it has a free press," said one diplomat.
Fold, the idiot, seems to have forgotten (again) that last winter he invited me down to the Twin Cities so he could kill me.
Pay attention. I never wished anything on our resident junkie.
Oh and btw, your status as a vet has no bearing 99% of the time of what i say to you. If you want to cry about it AGAIN, why don't you go whine to sysop and get us both kicked off just like on the old PP board. Good times...Good times...
Yes, well I don't remember him calling "ALL" the guys that served over there as "Drugged Out, Murderous Thugs". In fact, he went out of his way to say that MOST of the men who served, did so with distinction and Honor, as HE DID.
B.S Bill, he didn't go out of his way to do so. From the "Winter Soldier investigation" (Which later turned out to be full of bogus testimonmy)
John Kerry going out of his way:
John Kerry:"These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis"
More John Kerry going out of his way to make sure it was just those few rotten apples.
John Kerry "We were sent to Vietnam to kill Communism. But we found instead that we were killing women and children."
Hmmm, babykiller? No, wait he didn't say babies, just women and children.
From John Kerry's book. You know the one, with the upside down flag mocking Iwo Jima.
John Kerry : We will not quickly join those who march on Veterans' Day waving small flags, calling to memory those thousands who died for the "greater glory of the United States." We will not accept the rhetoric. We will not readily join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars -- in fact, we will find it hard to join anything at all and when we do, we will demand relevancy such as other organizations have recently been unable to provide. We will not take solace from the creation of monuments or the naming of parks after a select few of the thousands of dead Americans and Vietnamese. We will not uphold traditions which decorously memorialize that which was base and grim.
Yet now has no problems using the VFW and American Legions as p.r props.
More John Kerry going out of the way to let people know how honorably most served.
So what I am saying is that yes, there will be some recrimination but far, far less than the 200,000 a year who are murdered by the United States of America.
From his congressional. testimony in April 1971.
But he also revealed the seamier side of that war, which was that thousands of the men who served in Vietnam murdered people, cut off ears and fingers, raped women, smoked dope by the bushel and were generally, Bad Soldiers. Thousands of them, in fact.
Sure they existed, the problem is that they were in the minority out of the 6 million that fought in that war.
The day will come, when some will say the very same things about SOME of the people now serving in IRAQ... Oh Wait, some of THEM have abused and tortured the enemy. NO... Couldn't be.
Of course they could. And they'd be wrong if they want to imply like Kerry that it's a widespread thing. Yes it happens in every war, to imply that it's widespread is false. There were a few people accused in 91' of attrocities. Does that mean we all did so? Nope.
You may not like it LUV, but what he testified to, in essence, was and remains, FACT.
Yea and the facts don't help your argument. Kerry BTW did say he comitted attrocities. Interesting.
This is a bit more than just knee jerk reaction/comments.
Indeed. People say, well he was young, he was. He was also a young when he was in the Navy too and he made that the centerpiece of his campaign in which he's asking us to judge him on. So he knew that people would look at the whole period.
It's one thing to protest the war. It's quite another in your quest to end it to castigate the men who served as murderers killing women and children. Then write a book mocking the Iwo Jima flag raising as your cover, testify before congress that later turns out to be suspect at best, admit to war crimes and then go to Paris to talk to the communist leaders on your own which is punsihible BTW. This isn't some guy who merely went to protests etc.
This is going to be a trying week for good-hearted liberals. Best to keep the radio on classical music and jazz and watch sports and Sienfeld reruns. We'll get through.
I won't speak ill of the dead. It's bad karma.
But as for the vocal living, well, the Bullshit River is reaching flood stage.
Bill, I agree, it would be nice to have a candidate who was more like one of our Founding Fathers. I'm not sure one of those even exists!
Crabs, Vietnam wasn't World War II, where it was necessary for everyone to contribute to the war effort. What people did to avoid going to Vietnam was considered, then, to be the intelligent thing to do. And what Bush and Cheney and Clinton did was legal. The whole country turned against the war and the draft. It's hypocritical to turn around and now say that what they did was dishonorable.
Kerry fought in that war, honorably by most accounts, and he did after all volunteer to go. But it doesn't give him, or anyone else, a warrant to condemn those who didn't. There were excellent reasons to avoid going.
you think they were against it?
Yes
you think that Bush was against the Vietnam war?
and to show it, he bailed on his guard duties to work for LBJ and Nixon crony Red Blount?
he worked for Blount, who was a crony of both LBJ and Nixon. Blount was President of the US Chamber of Commerce under LBJ.
not the whole country.
"US Chamber of Commerce under LBJ."
Do you mean Commerce Secretary?
The president doesn't appont anyone to the Chamber of Commerce.
"Still, Tenet's resignation signals the beginning of the breakup of a foreign policy team that has taken the country through the Sept. 11 crisis and two wars over the past 3 1/2 years.
You'd think the Lefties would be happy. Considering what a shitty job Dubya and his team are doing.
Time to mix it up, and get some fresh blood in there.
"You'd think the Lefties would be happy."
I'll let you know if I'm happy, politically speaking, after the first Tuesday in November.
I'm not happy now, so the election won't change that.
No matter who wins we'll be screwed somehow.
The day Kerry wins will be a great day to be an American.
Today's a great day to be an American.
Most Fridays are.
maybe they can get some more of those Iran-Contra criminals out of mothballs.
Ollie North already has a job. Insulting veterans with that War Stories series on Fox. He righteously stands with actual war heroes.
That guy has a set.
Most Fridays are.
Every day is. I'm very thankful to live in this country.
maybe they can get some more of those Iran-Contra criminals out of mothballs.
What's the "Iran Contra Count" now, Torp?
That guy has a set.
I can't stand that guy.
He should be in jail today if you ask me.
Caspar Weinberger
Richard Secord
Richard Miller
John Poindexter
Robert McFarlane
Clair George
Elliott Abrams
Albert Fiers
Albert Hakim
Thomas Clines
Otto Reich
John Negroponte
Rogelio Pardo-Maurer
although several (John Poindexter, Elliott Abrams, Otto Reich, John Negroponte, Rogelio Pardo-Maurer) have already received appointments from GW, they still have a bunch of guys to go.
John Poindexter, Elliott Abrams, Otto Reich, John Negroponte, Rogelio Pardo-Maurer
current administration, current news.
THX, 95 so far.
heh-heh, all vets are suppose to follow along with your radical lock-step views without question? You're as popular with your fellow vets as you are here. Suprise-Suprise!
Geez Fold, i would have been there but i had to do that thing called work.
Why not, that's what Kerry did, he did it to Vets and to those who were still there. I think what the guy said to you is 100% wrong and inexcusible. (Although that was somehow my fault) That's why I disagree with Kerry too. Castigating an entire group of people as drugged out murderous thugs who most had served honorably is disgusting. Protest all you want, hey hey ho, ho, Nixon's got to go etc. etc. Fine. But to cast them all in that light was bullshit, most served with honor and diginity. It was wrong for that guy to say that to you and it was wrong for Kerry to do the same. Support him if you want, I personally can never forgive him for those false words.
THX, I remember when you said something like..."Well, now that republicans DO control all three branches of Gvoernment, they had better do a good job, or I will be pissed...", or something to that effect?
I did say something to that extent, and truthfully, I'm not happy with them.
However, Kerry is no alternative in my mind. I'd rather stick with Dubya than vote for that turd.
Ronald Reagan's health has "taken a turn for the worse." I translate that to mean that he's dying.
Muskwa 6/5/04 1:30pm
That is typically the way it is often expressed.
His death has just been announced.
So it has.
Prayers for the family and God rest his soul.
Grandpa Dan Zachary 6/5/04 2:00pm
Amen.
and yet he is claiming (as of tommorow) that he's not dying.
Reagan's Office Disputes Reports That His Death Is Imminent - Published: June 6, 2004
leave it to Ronnie to deny knowldge of even his own death
what the article said a few hours ago...
Reagan's Office Disputes Reports That His Death Is Imminent
By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: June 6, 2004
LOS ANGELES, June 5 - Former President Ronald Reagan's health has markedly worsened in recent days, friends and associates said on Saturday, but his office denied that his condition had changed.
The news media reported widely on Saturday morning that Mr. Reagan was near death.
In response, Joanne Drake, the former president's chief of staff here, said, "Rumors are rampant, but there has been no significant change or rapid deterioration of any kind."
"Of course," Ms. Drake added, "he's 93 and he has Alzheimer's."
She said the Reagan office here had received nearly 300 calls in the last two days inquiring about Mr. Reagan's health. She said that if there were any substantial change in his condition she would issue a statement.
The Reagan biographer Lou Cannon said that it was his understanding that the former president was in "bad shape." "It could come at any time or he could last a while longer," Mr. Cannon said from his home near Santa Barbara.
A family friend said he had been told about a week ago that Mr. Reagan had taken a turn for the worse, and another family friend said that Mr. Reagan was now "completely nonresponsive" and that doctors did not expect him to live much longer.
A spokesman for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said that he had received no official notification of any change in Mr. Reagan's condition, and the White House said it had no comment.
Mr. Reagan announced that he had Alzheimer's disease in 1994 and remained largely at his home in the Bel Air section of Los Angeles under the care of his wife, Nancy. He has not been seen in public in years and reports periodically surface that he is near death.
Mrs. Reagan, at a fund-raising dinner here last month for diabetes research, made a plea for accelerated research using embryonic stem cells, saying such work could lead to a cure or treatment for Alzheimer's and other diseases.
"Ronnie's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him," she said. "Because of this, I'm determined to do whatever I can to save other families from this pain. I just don't see how we can turn our backs on this."
and what it says now...
Reagan's Health Has Worsened Sharply, Associates Say
By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: June 6, 2004
LOS ANGELES, June 5 - Former President Ronald Reagan's health has markedly worsened in recent days, friends and associates said on Saturday, but his office denied that his condition had changed.
The news media reported widely on Saturday morning that Mr. Reagan was near death.
In response, Joanne Drake, the former president's chief of staff here, said, "Rumors are rampant, but there has been no significant change or rapid deterioration of any kind."
"Of course," Ms. Drake added, "he's 93 and he has Alzheimer's."
She said the Reagan office here had received nearly 300 calls in the last two days inquiring about Mr. Reagan's health. She said that if there were any substantial change in his condition she would issue a statement.
The Reagan biographer Lou Cannon said that it was his understanding that the former president was in "bad shape." "It could come at any time or he could last a while longer," Mr. Cannon said from his home near Santa Barbara.
A family friend said he had been told about a week ago that Mr. Reagan had taken a turn for the worse, and another family friend said that Mr. Reagan was now "completely nonresponsive" and that doctors did not expect him to live much longer.
A spokesman for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said that he had received no official notification of any change in Mr. Reagan's condition, and the White House said it had no comment.
Mr. Reagan announced that he had Alzheimer's disease in 1994 and remained largely at his home in the Bel Air section of Los Angeles under the care of his wife, Nancy. He has not been seen in public in years and reports periodically surface that he is near death.
Mrs. Reagan, at a fund-raising dinner here last month for diabetes research, made a plea for accelerated research using embryonic stem cells, saying such work could lead to a cure or treatment for Alzheimer's and other diseases.
"Ronnie's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him," she said. "Because of this, I'm determined to do whatever I can to save other families from this pain. I just don't see how we can turn our backs on this."
leave it to Ronnie to deny knowldge of even his own death
And leave it to you to drag his name through the mud within an hour of the announcement of his passing. I feel bad for the family having to not only go through the passing of a loved one, but for the following days and weeks that will surely bring more of this type of mudslinging.
did you feel this sorry for the families of people who died of AIDS while Ron remained silent and did nothing about it?
did you feel sorry for the families of those killed in his illegal, covert wars in Nicaragua and El Salvador?
didn't you hear...Reagan's own office said "there has been no significant change or rapid deterioration of any kind"
Come on Crabs, give it a rest for just one day. Let the body get cold before you start with all the crap again. I do not remember anyone here jumping all over Wellstone when he passed. Give the family time to morn first.
I was going to comment, but thought better of it.
Rest in peace Ron.
you actually think they read this board?
YOU are the worst mankind has to offer, crabgrass. An early death would be too good for you.
"Quit talking to me crabgrass" - Torpedo-8
Of course, some people would call the man a "TURD".
I never cared much for Ronnie.
That's all I'm going to say.
So the G8 countries, meeting this week at Sea Island, are inviting nearly all the Arab nations, with the exception of Qatar. The reason? -- it has a free press.
During the week, the New York Times reports that the G8 leaders will issue a declaration hailing democracy in the Middle East. Many countries are not bringing delegations, but some of the more open ones, like Jordan will be attending.
Qatar isn't invited because its the home of Al-Jazeera, "which the administration has accused of inciting anti-American violence in Iraq," says the Times.
In the declaration, the G8 countries will have proposals for women's rights, open elections, literacy, and (yo!) a free press.
"It's strange, having a summit declaration on democratic reforms and not inviting a country because it has a free press," said one diplomat.
(Rick) I find that strange, too.
Fold, the idiot, seems to have forgotten (again) that last winter he invited me down to the Twin Cities so he could kill me.
Pay attention. I never wished anything on our resident junkie.
Oh and btw, your status as a vet has no bearing 99% of the time of what i say to you. If you want to cry about it AGAIN, why don't you go whine to sysop and get us both kicked off just like on the old PP board. Good times...Good times...
B.S Bill, he didn't go out of his way to do so. From the "Winter Soldier investigation" (Which later turned out to be full of bogus testimonmy)
John Kerry going out of his way:
More John Kerry going out of his way to make sure it was just those few rotten apples.
Hmmm, babykiller? No, wait he didn't say babies, just women and children.
From John Kerry's book. You know the one, with the upside down flag mocking Iwo Jima.
Yet now has no problems using the VFW and American Legions as p.r props.
More John Kerry going out of the way to let people know how honorably most served.
Sure they existed, the problem is that they were in the minority out of the 6 million that fought in that war.
Of course they could. And they'd be wrong if they want to imply like Kerry that it's a widespread thing. Yes it happens in every war, to imply that it's widespread is false. There were a few people accused in 91' of attrocities. Does that mean we all did so? Nope.
Yea and the facts don't help your argument. Kerry BTW did say he comitted attrocities. Interesting.
Wow!
Thanks for the details on Kerry.
Pretty slimey
He's backed off on some of the things he said back then. He admitted that he was overzealous.
Well, I've backed off on things I've said before, I'm sure we all have.
This is a bit more than just knee jerk reaction/comments.
Yep but the one thing he could have done to the men he castigated was apologize. He never has and he should have done so years ago.
Indeed. People say, well he was young, he was.
He was also a young when he was in the Navy too and he made that the centerpiece of his campaign in which he's asking us to judge him on. So he knew that people would look at the whole period.
It's one thing to protest the war. It's quite another in your quest to end it to castigate the men who served as murderers killing women and children. Then write a book mocking the Iwo Jima flag raising as your cover, testify before congress that later turns out to be suspect at best, admit to war crimes and then go to Paris to talk to the communist leaders on your own which is punsihible BTW. This isn't some guy who merely went to protests etc.
Kerry backed off those statements BEFORE he backed off those statements.
Torpedo-8 6/7/04 9:04pm
Heh
Kerry backed off those statements BEFORE he backed off those statements.
Bwaaaah!
This is going to be a trying week for good-hearted liberals. Best to keep the radio on classical music and jazz and watch sports and Sienfeld reruns. We'll get through.
I won't speak ill of the dead. It's bad karma.
But as for the vocal living, well, the Bullshit River is reaching flood stage.
Hope ya'll work on the second floor or higher.