The fringe elements make me uncomfortable too, and you always hope that they don't totally torpedo the chances of the party. But, in my mind you gotta stand with all of them, or you can't be counted on to stand with any of them.
The fringe elements make me uncomfortable too, and you always hope that they don't totally torpedo the chances of the party. But, in my mind you gotta stand with all of them, or you can't be counted on to stand with any of them.
Luv, I don't get on here as much as I'd like to, so that makes it a bit hard. Plus, many times I figure it's not quite worth it because people won't change their minds, they'll hurl insults, or they just won't have anything positive to add.Â
People might change their mind or even look at things a different way. I have.
Yea there's going to be some insults hurled and I'd like to see us get away from it. Debate is good, it's boring if everyone agrees and it can be done without resorting to personal attacks. I try and stay away from it but am guilty of it as well, sometimes when you're passionate about a topic it happens. Some people seem to enjoy it, some people make a hobby out of it. But I hope you decide to post here more often.
People might change their mind or even look at things a different way. They might but don't expect that they will admit it when they do. Over time they may not immediately realize they have changed their mind.
Nader's campaign had submitted more than 22,000 signatures to Arizona election officials June 9 — far more than the 14,694 valid signatures required by state law to compete against President Bush and Kerry.
I'm sorry, but that story had absolutely NOTHING to do with "dirty tricks"
to say it is is to lose the meaning of the phrase altogether.
that Nader calls it that is bullshit. To use the term "dirty tricks" is in itself more of a "dirty trick" than the Dems using the rules to their full political advantage.
Jethro, either one of these men can win the white house, right now. I know you wantto believe that. Â GDubbya's numbers HAVE been sliding for MONTHS, and only a fool would say otherwise. It's been like... ALL over the news? And exactly where are Kerry's numbers? It should scare the hell out of you that Bush is where he is considering all the negative press he has sustained for the last seven months.
Of course I am happy he picked Edwards. Edwards gives the ticket some needed pizzazz, and he will give Dick "OilCan" Cheneya bloody nose if oilcan ever agrees to debate the guy...which is highly dubious at this point. Cheney knows his stuff and you are fooling yourself if you think Edwards can best him. Edwards should simply hope to hold his own.Hell, your own party is sending up smoke signals to get another VP! Most in the party support Cheney because they know he can be president right now.
At this point, it doesn't matter WHAT I think. Gdubbya is taking hits because of his own failures of leadership and the lies surrounding the reasons why we went into IRAQ. Bush as been a very successful president. I know you won't admit that but he is winning a war and the economy is, by most accounts, boomong.
I liked it yesterday when Gdubb said, "Dick Cheney Could Be President Today".
Like he wasn't, all along ? I guess you didn't get his meaning. You do know what the question was that Bush was responsding to, don't you?
Of course I am happy he picked Edwards. Edwards gives the ticket some needed pizzazz, and he will give Dick "OilCan" Cheney a bloody nose if oilcan ever agrees to debate the guy...which is highly dubious at this point. Fold
Edwards has little-experience, even as a Senator. His drawl alone will cost him votes in many states north and west of the Mason-Dixon, and his absolute lack of any foriegn-relations experience against Kerry and Clark, in this time of War? C'mon man... Fold
Edwards has three-times the drawl that Clinton has, but half the brains.
"Perhaps distributing bobblehead dolls of prominent Minnesota-born peacemakers (and baseball fans) such as Nobel Peace Prize recipient Frank Kellogg, United Nations founder Harold Stassen, former Sen. Eugene McCarthy, and Catholic peacemakers Phillip and Daniel Berrigan would be also appropriate."
"Michael Moore's entry into the election debate, has an audience that is 47% liberal, 26% moderate, and 25% conservative. The audience for Mel Gibson's Passion of Christ is 51% conservative, 27% moderate, and 21% liberal."
Interesting tidbit:
"There is a bit of common ground between the movies. Fans of both named Rock'n'Roll as their favorite music. However, Classical music was the second choice of the Fahrenheit 9-11 audience while country music ranked second among the Passion audience."
As I've said before, a conservative can like rock 'n' roll, but a liberal knows what it's about.
"The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker. According to Frank, the conservative establishment has tricked Kansans, playing up the emotional touchstones of conservatism and perpetuating a sense of a vast liberal empire out to crush traditional values while barely ever discussing the Republicans' actual economic policies and what they mean to the working class."
The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker. There are a number of reasons to vote republican. One prime one is that the left offers only lies. Frank's premise that repubicans only benefit the wealthy and powerful is a prime example of one of these lies. According to Frank, the conservative establishment has tricked Kansans, playing up the emotional touchstones of conservatism and perpetuating a sense of a vast liberal empire out to crush traditional values while barely ever discussing the Republicans' actual economic policies and what they mean to the working class. Thus the pro-life Kansas factory worker who listens to Rush Limbaugh will repeatedly vote for the party that is less likely to protect his safety, less likely to protect his job, and less likely to benefit him economically. See more lies. Certainly the democrats won't protect the life of the unborn.Â
T homas Frank makes the classic liberal-elite blunder, that is, anyone who buys into the conservative message is an idiot and a victim. If Frank was not so blinded by his own 'moral' and 'intellectual' superiority, and his fixation on 'economic' issues, he might be able to see that the Democratic Party -- the party that (literally) ruled our nation for 40 or 50 consecutive years -- has been corrupted by cultural immorality. Bingo!!! Â It was no coincidence that the Republican Party took over during the early years of the Clinton administration. I, for example, was a lifelong Democrat (like my Father and Grandfather before me), and I voted for Clinton in 1992; but within the next couple of years I began to realize that the Democratic Party had become morally bankrupt -- that there was no longer any room in the party for social conservatives.Exactly right!.... I recommend this book only because it provides good insight into the clueless mindset of a classic liberal-elitist. Ah yes the truth!The only reason to read the book!
This book answers the fundamental conundrum of contemporary politics: Why do poor persons vote republican, thus ensuring that they will NEVER better their economic status? This is simply untrue. Why do they vote on "moral" values of treading on and oppressing the already oppressed, economically destroying the economically vulnerable and otherwise ending all prospects of economic progress for themselves? Liberals really believe these lies. No one is being destroyed.
If you have ever been to Kansas, you realize how terribly it has been damaged by Republican ideas of "free markets" (no regulation for predatory capitalist thieves) and other insane ideas.I have been to Kansas and I have no idea what this dude is talking about.
This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker.
Nonsense. The policies of Republicans do benefit the average worker much more than the policies of the Democrats. That's why states like Kansas vote Republican.
This is typical liberal condescention. You've been tricked by voting conservative! It was the same premise used by Garrison Kielior after Coleman was elected. when he called it a low rent mistake. That's a sure way to get people to embrace your ideas, accuse them of being ignorant. Nevermind more than half the country describes themselves as conservative.
As far as his assertion that the "establishment" is somehow tricking people into believing that the left is out to somehow crush traditional values in rubbish as well. It's obvious to those who feel that way out of the actions of those on the left. They don't need to be told anything, they can see how and what they stand for by simply looking at their causes and voting records.
But yes, because they don't agree or vote a particular way, they are just dumb ignorant hicks I guess. Typical.
 Losers in political battles typically come up with conspiracy theories to explain why they are losers and this describes Frank's book as much as anything else. Read George Will's Post column of July 8 and you will get a summary of the problems that the fevered brows on the left face. The fact that basic economic privations have been largely solved sounded the death knell for the hardcore socialist left. Frank asks about the "smashing of the welfare state"? What galaxy is this man lost on? We have a 2.2 trillion budget, which, when you excise the 400 billion dollars for defense, has outstripped all industries and institutions in rate of growth. Frank's model is clearly the socialist governments of Europe, which are straining under budgets they can't afford, yet tolerate the barbarism of decades-long 12 per cent unemployment in Spain, France and Germany. The Left is bitter about the ungrateful masses who (a) don't realize how much it has done for them and (b) are too stupid and mind numbed to realize it. And people like Frank ponder why middle America this review helpful to you? Â
Now this hits the nail on the head.
Republicans are every bit as condescending in this populism that says everyone in flyover country is a bloc of amiable, pleasant, hardworking common folk. They nuzzle up to them in the same manner.
They juxtaspose us with this other bloc of Blue state people on the coasts who aren't among the group who "makes America work."
Thanks, Rob. It's nice to read that.
The fringe elements make me uncomfortable too, and you always hope that they don't totally torpedo the chances of the party. But, in my mind you gotta stand with all of them, or you can't be counted on to stand with any of them.
ThoseMedallingKids 6/30/04 8:53am
You shouldn't feel that way, I've read your postings and you have alot to offer. You should do so more often.
Â
The fringe elements make me uncomfortable too, and you always hope that they don't totally torpedo the chances of the party. But, in my mind you gotta stand with all of them, or you can't be counted on to stand with any of them.
I know what you are saying.
Luv, I don't get on here as much as I'd like to, so that makes it a bit hard. Plus, many times I figure it's not quite worth it because people won't change their minds, they'll hurl insults, or they just won't have anything positive to add.Â
ThoseMedallingKids 6/30/04 9:24am
People might change their mind or even look at things a different way. I have.
Yea there's going to be some insults hurled and I'd like to see us get away from it. Debate is good, it's boring if everyone agrees and it can be done without resorting to personal attacks. I try and stay away from it but am guilty of it as well, sometimes when you're passionate about a topic it happens. Some people seem to enjoy it, some people make a hobby out of it. But I hope you decide to post here more often.
People might change their mind or even look at things a different way. They might but don't expect that they will admit it when they do. Over time they may not immediately realize they have changed their mind.
I've changed my position on some issues since knowing you people.
btw, I love you guys!
::big hug::
The Wrong Way to Mount Rushmore
If you must read Bill Clinton's book, skip pages 1 through 869.
BY MARK STEYN
http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110005276
What standard DO you live up to, Fold?
Look out fold is on a rant, must have forgot his med's this morning
Nader Accuses Dems of 'Dirty Tricks'
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124592,00.html
Nader's campaign had submitted more than 22,000 signatures to Arizona election officials June 9 — far more than the 14,694 valid signatures required by state law to compete against President Bush and Kerry.
So much hate fold, watch it or you will blow a gasket.
For some reason I knew you'd have no problem with the Democrats dirty tricks against Nader.
If Nader can't be hounded out of the race, he can be pushed to irrelevancy.
If Democrats weren't such nice people the same thing could have happened in 2000.
If Democrats weren't such nice people the same thing could have happened in 2000.
Yeah, they should just shoot him.
Nevermind that he did get almost double the signatures.
Get the bastard on a technicality.
This is power politics. It ain't a damn daisy farm.
IÂ hope Nader isn't a factor.
I hope the Liberals say "you're too far left even for us", and should Dubya win it can't be blamed on Nader.
This is power politics. It ain't a damn daisy farm.
Yeah, who cares about ethics and right and wrong.
Have a look at your man http://www.gop.com/RNCResearch/Read.aspx?id=4345
Thank you professor Bill Fold.
I'm sorry, but that story had absolutely NOTHING to do with "dirty tricks"
to say it is is to lose the meaning of the phrase altogether.
that Nader calls it that is bullshit. To use the term "dirty tricks" is in itself more of a "dirty trick" than the Dems using the rules to their full political advantage.
They got Nader off the ballot on a technicality. Not because of any mass voter fraud or anything like that.
I call that dirty tricks.
Nader chose to step in the arena. He's fair game.
He can use the rules, too. But maybe he should just concentrate on following them.
that's called hardball politics.
dirty tricks involves...you know...dirt....getting dirt on an opponent and using it....doing something that borders on illegal.
you have rendered the Nixonian term meaningless.
Yeah that's right, Fold. According to you, GW has been at 45% and falling for about a year now.
you have rendered the Nixonian term meaningless.
I didn't know I possessed such power.
If Democrats weren't such nice people the same thing could have happened in 2000.
Amazing!!!! Democrats really believe this stuff.
sounds to me that fold wishes Edwards were the democrats candidate. my guess is by November 2 most democrats will feel that way.
Jethro, either one of these men can win the white house, right now. I know you wantto believe that. Â GDubbya's numbers HAVE been sliding for MONTHS, and only a fool would say otherwise. It's been like... ALL over the news? And exactly where are Kerry's numbers? It should scare the hell out of you that Bush is where he is considering all the negative press he has sustained for the last seven months.
Of course I am happy he picked Edwards. Edwards gives the ticket some needed pizzazz, and he will give Dick "OilCan" Cheneya bloody nose if oilcan ever agrees to debate the guy...which is highly dubious at this point. Cheney knows his stuff and you are fooling yourself if you think Edwards can best him. Edwards should simply hope to hold his own.Hell, your own party is sending up smoke signals to get another VP! Most in the party support Cheney because they know he can be president right now.
At this point, it doesn't matter WHAT I think. Gdubbya is taking hits because of his own failures of leadership and the lies surrounding the reasons why we went into IRAQ. Bush as been a very successful president. I know you won't admit that but he is winning a war and the economy is, by most accounts, boomong.
I liked it yesterday when Gdubb said, "Dick Cheney Could Be President Today".
Like he wasn't,
all along
? I guess you didn't get his meaning. You do know what the question was that Bush was responsding to, don't you?
Of course I am happy he picked Edwards. Edwards gives the ticket some needed pizzazz, and he will give Dick "OilCan" Cheney a bloody nose if oilcan ever agrees to debate the guy...which is highly dubious at this point.
Fold
Edwards has little-experience, even as a Senator. His drawl alone will cost him votes in many states north and west of the Mason-Dixon, and his absolute lack of any foriegn-relations experience against Kerry and Clark, in this time of War? C'mon man... Fold
Edwards has three-times the drawl that Clinton has, but half the brains.
He cannot win.
Fold
ahhhhh the inconsistencies of fold!
I can't wait for the Fold tirade.
Torpedo-8 7/8/04 9:15pm
I bet you won't have to wait long. Probably tomorrow.
About 4:14 to 5:34 a.m., according to PF clock here.
LOL! Nice non-response to 6168, Mr. flip-flop. What's the matter, Fold? Afraid again?
Anyone for a bobblehead?
"Perhaps distributing bobblehead dolls of prominent Minnesota-born peacemakers (and baseball fans) such as Nobel Peace Prize recipient Frank Kellogg, United Nations founder Harold Stassen, former Sen. Eugene McCarthy, and Catholic peacemakers Phillip and Daniel Berrigan would be also appropriate."
GI Joe controversy
What a joke
They'd be collectors' items. A Harold Stassen bobblehead. The strangest gate promotion in Major League Baseball history.
The strangest gate promotion in Major League Baseball history.
No Doubt!
Â
On the culture watch
Farenheit 9/11 vs. Passion of the Christ
Two films I probably won't see.
"Michael Moore's entry into the election debate, has an audience that is 47% liberal, 26% moderate, and 25% conservative. The audience for Mel Gibson's Passion of Christ is 51% conservative, 27% moderate, and 21% liberal."
Interesting tidbit:
"There is a bit of common ground between the movies. Fans of both named Rock'n'Roll as their favorite music. However, Classical music was the second choice of the Fahrenheit 9-11 audience while country music ranked second among the Passion audience."
As I've said before, a conservative can like rock 'n' roll, but a liberal knows what it's about.
Yeah, cuz it sounds so much better when you're stoned.
Obvious you don't know what it's about.
Whatever gets you through the night, Rick.
This book might be a good read.
"The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker. According to Frank, the conservative establishment has tricked Kansans, playing up the emotional touchstones of conservatism and perpetuating a sense of a vast liberal empire out to crush traditional values while barely ever discussing the Republicans' actual economic policies and what they mean to the working class."
The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker. There are a number of reasons to vote republican. One prime one is that the left offers only lies. Frank's premise that repubicans only benefit the wealthy and powerful is a prime example of one of these lies. According to Frank, the conservative establishment has tricked Kansans, playing up the emotional touchstones of conservatism and perpetuating a sense of a vast liberal empire out to crush traditional values while barely ever discussing the Republicans' actual economic policies and what they mean to the working class. Thus the pro-life Kansas factory worker who listens to Rush Limbaugh will repeatedly vote for the party that is less likely to protect his safety, less likely to protect his job, and less likely to benefit him economically. See more lies. Certainly the democrats won't protect the life of the unborn.Â
T
homas Frank makes the classic liberal-elite blunder, that is, anyone who buys into the conservative message is an idiot and a victim. If Frank was not so blinded by his own 'moral' and 'intellectual' superiority, and his fixation on 'economic' issues, he might be able to see that the Democratic Party -- the party that (literally) ruled our nation for 40 or 50 consecutive years -- has been corrupted by cultural immorality. Bingo!!! Â It was no coincidence that the Republican Party took over during the early years of the Clinton administration. I, for example, was a lifelong Democrat (like my Father and Grandfather before me), and I voted for Clinton in 1992; but within the next couple of years I began to realize that the Democratic Party had become morally bankrupt -- that there was no longer any room in the party for social conservatives.Exactly right!.... I recommend this book only because it provides good insight into the clueless mindset of a classic liberal-elitist. Ah yes the truth!The only reason to read the book!
This book answers the fundamental conundrum of contemporary politics: Why do poor persons vote republican, thus ensuring that they will NEVER better their economic status? This is simply untrue. Why do they vote on "moral" values of treading on and oppressing the already oppressed, economically destroying the economically vulnerable and otherwise ending all prospects of economic progress for themselves? Liberals really believe these lies. No one is being destroyed.
If you have ever been to Kansas, you realize how terribly it has been damaged by Republican ideas of "free markets" (no regulation for predatory capitalist thieves) and other insane ideas.I have been to Kansas and I have no idea what this dude is talking about.
This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker.
Nonsense. The policies of Republicans do benefit the average worker much more than the policies of the Democrats. That's why states like Kansas vote Republican.
This is typical liberal condescention. You've been tricked by voting conservative! It was the same premise used by Garrison Kielior after Coleman was elected. when he called it a low rent mistake. That's a sure way to get people to embrace your ideas, accuse them of being ignorant. Nevermind more than half the country describes themselves as conservative.
As far as his assertion that the "establishment" is somehow tricking people into believing that the left is out to somehow crush traditional values in rubbish as well. It's obvious to those who feel that way out of the actions of those on the left. They don't need to be told anything, they can see how and what they stand for by simply looking at their causes and voting records.
But yes, because they don't agree or vote a particular way, they are just dumb ignorant hicks I guess. Typical.
Â
Losers in political battles typically come up with conspiracy theories to explain why they are losers and this describes Frank's book as much as anything else. Read George Will's Post column of July 8 and you will get a summary of the problems that the fevered brows on the left face. The fact that basic economic privations have been largely solved sounded the death knell for the hardcore socialist left. Frank asks about the "smashing of the welfare state"? What galaxy is this man lost on? We have a 2.2 trillion budget, which, when you excise the 400 billion dollars for defense, has outstripped all industries and institutions in rate of growth. Frank's model is clearly the socialist governments of Europe, which are straining under budgets they can't afford, yet tolerate the barbarism of decades-long 12 per cent unemployment in Spain, France and Germany. The Left is bitter about the ungrateful masses who (a) don't realize how much it has done for them and (b) are too stupid and mind numbed to realize it. And people like Frank ponder why middle America this review helpful to you? Â
Now this hits the nail on the head.
I hear it all the time:
Republicans are every bit as condescending in this populism that says everyone in flyover country is a bloc of amiable, pleasant, hardworking common folk. They nuzzle up to them in the same manner.
They juxtaspose us with this other bloc of Blue state people on the coasts who aren't among the group who "makes America work."