Definitions of when a fetus becomes a human being differ widely.
That is a Latin word that means offspring. Not much to discuss there.
My logic says that a fetus or embryo becomes a human being when it is able to live on its own...
My daughter was induced a month before she was due (she was having physical problems). My grandson was born through an otherwise normal child birth and did not need an incubator or anything else to survive. Would you agree with an abortion on my grandson when there was a month yet to go in the pregnancy? How does that differ from 2 months or more earlier?
Logic says that a fertilized ovum is not a human being; it can become one under the right circumstances, but it isn't one at that stage.
Logic tells me that it sure as heck ain't a cat or a dog. If it is not human, then why does it have human DNA that is unique and different from the mother? Why does it have human blood? Why does it move in the womb and have thought patterns that can be monitored?
I would agree that the decisions your daughter had to make concerning her pregnancy are none of my or the State's business.
If she harms the born child now, would it be your or the state's business and why? What difference is there between the second before the cutting of the cord and the second after?
at the umbilical cord.
Yeah, not like there is different DNA, different blood types, etc., right?
If she harms the born child now, would it be your or the state's business and why?
This child is no longer attached to her physically. It's individual and as such has the rights of an individual.
As for the State's business, it's not the State's business until the State recognises it as one of it's citizens, hence the Certificate of Birth. You want for the State to start issuing Certificates of Conception?
if it's physically attached to me, it's mine to do with what I will.
Not if it is another person's body, which is the case we are discussing here.
This child is no longer attached to her physically.
So? It is the same child that was attached earlier. Cutting the cord did not change anything about the child.
By stating the child is no longer attached, you are admitting that it was a child when it was attached. You are advocating the killing of this child simply because there is a cord attached to it.
As for the State's business, it's not the State's business until the State recognises it as one of it's citizens...
So it is legal to kill an illegal immigrant? I think not, yet they also are not recognized as a citizen of a state.
You want for the State to start issuing Certificates of Conception?
We have no way of knowing the exact moment of conception, so that would be an impossible task. For the purpose of paperwork, it is possible to tell the exact moment when it is born and usually there is a doctor there to confirm it.
sure it did. It made it a separate thing, no longer attached to it's mother physically.
It always was a seperate "thing". Different DNA, different blood type, etc. The tube attaching the child and the mother is a feeding tube, nothing more.
we celebrate it...use it as the zero mark of our age....the State certifies it...perhaps you have heard of it.
And I already addressed that issue...perhaps you read my post?
they are citizens of somewhere..the country of which I was borna citizen of recognises the birth certificates of the planet it is a part of.
True they are a citizen of somewhere, but they are not a citizen of the state where you live which was your point. Remember this-it's not the State's business until the State recognises it as one of it's citizens
?
What if a person is an outcast, not a citizen of any country? Would it be alright then?
It always was a seperate "thing". Different DNA, different blood type, etc. The tube attaching the child and the mother is a feeding tube, nothing more.
The reason the exemption is there is for the cost of clothing, food etc. Obviously they don't need clothes but if any of you have had a wife who's pregnant, you'd know they ought to give the food exemption before birth, (ducks and check to make sure Mrs. Luv isn't reading this) They are the food source for now and man do they like to eat :) Well that is when they're not throwing it back up :(
One other caveat. You can write off the costs associated with the medical care during the pregnancy even if the child is never born. So in one way you already can.Â
Anyone ever seen the new 3-D Sonograms ? They're pretty cool. Here's what they look like. These are actual pictures from one. Taken at about 51/2 months.  Â
how about the men take some responsibility for it.
if a man impregnates a woman (and thus creates a situation where an abortion is possible) without full written consent of the woman agreeing to do everything possible to want and give birth to this child and the woman decides to abort, the man is sentenced to life in prison for causing the death of a child.
if a man impregnates a woman (and thus creates a situation where an abortion is possible) without full written consent of the woman agreeing to do everything possible to want and give birth to this child and the woman decides to abort, the man is sentenced to life in prison for causing the death of a child.
uh...some of these people think it's child murder and also believe in the death penalty...the conclusion being that the millions of women who have had an abortion should be put to death...and I'm in the ozone layer?
sure...right.
trying to control abortion is just another way for men to control women.
it was just last century that women couldn't even vote and now the chauvinistic men are getting desperate to find ways to keep them women dumb, barefoot and pregnant.
it was just last century that women couldn't even vote and now the chauvinistic men are getting desperate to find ways to keep them women dumb, barefoot and pregnant.
no...the woman gets off. It's the man who created the situation.
That is called rape and yes, he will be doing time.
uh...some of these people think it's child murder and also believe in the death penalty...the conclusion being that the millions of women who have had an abortion should be put to death...and I'm in the ozone layer?
The death penalty has to do with a crime that was committed. If you kill a child before it is even born, what crime has that child committed? Why did it deserve the death penalty?
trying to control abortion is just another way for men to control women.
Yeah, we are trying to control those women that are in the womb now. LOL.
it was just last century that women couldn't even vote and now the chauvinistic men are getting desperate to find ways to keep them women dumb, barefoot and pregnant.
I think that you just want to control the women for the sex. If they happen to get pregnant, just kill it and you won't have to worry about child support. Talk about keeping them dumb.Â
That is called rape and yes, he will be doing time.
Very few rapes ever actually get prosecuted.
and besides, I was only talking about not knowing if the woman wanted to have a child, not if she wanted sex or not. Again you want to make it all the woman's responsibility.
Some of these same people believe murdering a child is a capital offense.
Are you saying that the unborn child committed suicide? Weird. I do not think that the unborn child has any say at all whether it is aborted or not.
no, they get to decide when they are impregnated and what to do about it, not me.
Didn't the woman make that decision when she decided to have unprotected sex? Same goes for the man. My 12 year old can tell you that a woman can get pregnant from sex, so don't try to tell me she didn't know what would happen.
Talk about keeping them dumb and pregnant.
IÂ don't get any say in it, nor should I.
but I don't see you standing up for men to be held responsible for concieving a child that wasn't wanted.
I am the one saying that they should pay child support and such. You are the one saying that the man shouldn't have any responsibility concerning the child. You do not even believe that the man should have a say in if the child lives or not.
Again you want to make it all the woman's responsibility.
B.S. I have always said and felt that the man is responsible as well. That is why I am married and taking care of my own children.  Sure my financial life would be easier without children, I could go to the bar whenever I felt like it, etc.,  but that is not what is most important and I take my responsibilities very seriously.
If I did not want children, there is many ways to avoid the pregnancy in the first place, but you do not wish to give me that responsibility. You want to take the responsibility of if I should have children or not away from me and put it on my wife. Why would you wish to force that responsibility on my wife?
no, the man made the decision when he impregnated the woman.
Holy cow, you sure have a low opinion of women. Are you saying they are too stupid to know that they will get pregnant, therefore it is the man's fault? Amazing
no...if the child gets aborted, they are responsible for that.
I thought you said that was the responsibility of the woman and the man has no say? Which is it and do you write Kerry's speeches
Definitions of when a fetus becomes a human being differ widely.
That is a Latin word that means offspring. Not much to discuss there.
My logic says that a fetus or embryo becomes a human being when it is able to live on its own...
My daughter was induced a month before she was due (she was having physical problems). My grandson was born through an otherwise normal child birth and did not need an incubator or anything else to survive. Would you agree with an abortion on my grandson when there was a month yet to go in the pregnancy? How does that differ from 2 months or more earlier?
Logic says that a fertilized ovum is not a human being; it can become one under the right circumstances, but it isn't one at that stage.
Logic tells me that it sure as heck ain't a cat or a dog. If it is not human, then why does it have human DNA that is unique and different from the mother? Why does it have human blood? Why does it move in the womb and have thought patterns that can be monitored?
Â
I would agree that the decisions your daughter had to make concerning her pregnancy are none of my or the State's business.
Legally, for the purposes of (for example) US citizenship, it's at birth,
Then why can you be charged with double murder if you kill a pregnant woman?
Doesn't matter. I believe that life begins at conception.
It has nothing to do with religion btw.
What if you believe that it neither begins nor ends?
What if you believe that it neither begins nor ends?
I may or may not agree with you. The fact of the matter is, the human body begins and ends.
at the umbilical cord.
I would agree that the decisions your daughter had to make concerning her pregnancy are none of my or the State's business.
If she harms the born child now, would it be your or the state's business and why? What difference is there between the second before the cutting of the cord and the second after?
at the umbilical cord.
Yeah, not like there is different DNA, different blood types, etc., right?
if it's physically attached to me, it's mine to do with what I will.
This child is no longer attached to her physically. It's individual and as such has the rights of an individual.
As for the State's business, it's not the State's business until the State recognises it as one of it's citizens, hence the Certificate of Birth. You want for the State to start issuing Certificates of Conception?
if it's physically attached to me, it's mine to do with what I will.
Not if it is another person's body, which is the case we are discussing here.
This child is no longer attached to her physically.
So? It is the same child that was attached earlier. Cutting the cord did not change anything about the child.
By stating the child is no longer attached, you are admitting that it was a child when it was attached. You are advocating the killing of this child simply because there is a cord attached to it.
As for the State's business, it's not the State's business until the State recognises it as one of it's citizens...
So it is legal to kill an illegal immigrant? I think not, yet they also are not recognized as a citizen of a state.
You want for the State to start issuing Certificates of Conception?
We have no way of knowing the exact moment of conception, so that would be an impossible task. For the purpose of paperwork, it is possible to tell the exact moment when it is born and usually there is a doctor there to confirm it.
if another person physically attaches to me, yea...I get to decide what happens.
sure it did. It made it a separate thing, no longer attached to it's mother physically.
it's called "birth"
we celebrate it...use it as the zero mark of our age....the State certifies it...perhaps you have heard of it.
they are citizens of somewhere..the country of which I was borna citizen of recognises the birth certificates of the planet it is a part of.
and war makes legal the killing of those not from you State, yes.
sure it did. It made it a separate thing, no longer attached to it's mother physically.
It always was a seperate "thing". Different DNA, different blood type, etc. The tube attaching the child and the mother is a feeding tube, nothing more.
we celebrate it...use it as the zero mark of our age....the State certifies it...perhaps you have heard of it.
And I already addressed that issue...perhaps you read my post?
they are citizens of somewhere..the country of which I was borna citizen of recognises the birth certificates of the planet it is a part of.
True they are a citizen of somewhere, but they are not a citizen of the state where you live which was your point. Remember this-it's
not the State's business until the State recognises it as
one of it's citizens
?
What if a person is an outcast, not a citizen of any country? Would it be alright then?
if they were physically attached to you, yes.
physically attached...nothing less.
At conception there is a human being becuase it is an essential stage in the life of all people.
by that logic, so is being an individual sperm and ovum.
Then why can you be charged with double murder if you kill a pregnant woman?
why can't a pregnant woman claim the unborn child as an exemption on her income taxes?
>why can't a pregnant woman claim the unborn child as an exemption on her income taxes?
There are alot of things you can't claim an exemption on, it doesn't mean they don't exist.
Â
ok then. should a pregnant woman be able to claim an exemption for her unborn child? why or why not?
The reason the exemption is there is for the cost of clothing, food etc. Obviously they don't need clothes but if any of you have had a wife who's pregnant, you'd know they ought to give the food exemption before birth, (ducks and check to make sure Mrs. Luv isn't reading this) They are the food source for now and man do they like to eat :) Well that is when they're not throwing it back up :(
One other caveat. You can write off the costs associated with the medical care during the pregnancy even if the child is never born. So in one way you already can.Â
Anyone ever seen the new 3-D Sonograms ? They're pretty cool. Here's what they look like. These are actual pictures from one. Taken at about 51/2 months.  Â
ItchingÂ
Smile
Yawn
This one is really cool
Â
Â
Open eyes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3847319.stmÂ
 Yet, because of a cord (tissue that is actually discarded) , it's o.k to kill it.
how about the men take some responsibility for it.
if a man impregnates a woman (and thus creates a situation where an abortion is possible) without full written consent of the woman agreeing to do everything possible to want and give birth to this child and the woman decides to abort, the man is sentenced to life in prison for causing the death of a child.
Man, you are really in the ozone layer.
if a man impregnates a woman (and thus creates a situation where an abortion is possible) without full written consent of the woman agreeing to do everything possible to want and give birth to this child and the woman decides to abort, the man is sentenced to life in prison for causing the death of a child.
Sure.
The man and woman can have adjoining jail cells.
They deserve spending "life" together.
no...the woman gets off. It's the man who created the situation.
If she didn't agree to being impregnated than it's the man's fault.
uh...some of these people think it's child murder and also believe in the death penalty...the conclusion being that the millions of women who have had an abortion should be put to death...and I'm in the ozone layer?
sure...right.
trying to control abortion is just another way for men to control women.
it was just last century that women couldn't even vote and now the chauvinistic men are getting desperate to find ways to keep them women dumb, barefoot and pregnant.
it was just last century that women couldn't even vote and now the chauvinistic men are getting desperate to find ways to keep them women dumb, barefoot and pregnant.
Well at least you'd have some company.
no...the woman gets off. It's the man who created the situation.
That is called rape and yes, he will be doing time.
uh...some of these people think it's child murder and also believe in the death penalty...the conclusion being that the millions of women who have had an abortion should be put to death...and I'm in the ozone layer?
The death penalty has to do with a crime that was committed. If you kill a child before it is even born, what crime has that child committed? Why did it deserve the death penalty?
trying to control abortion is just another way for men to control women.
Yeah, we are trying to control those women that are in the womb now. LOL.
it was just last century that women couldn't even vote and now the chauvinistic men are getting desperate to find ways to keep them women dumb, barefoot and pregnant.
I think that you just want to control the women for the sex. If they happen to get pregnant, just kill it and you won't have to worry about child support. Talk about keeping them dumb.Â
Some people believe it's murder of a child.
Some of these same people believe murdering a child is a capital offense.
We all know the current laws...I was referring to what these people believe.
no, they get to decide when they are impregnated and what to do about it, not me.
I don't get any say in it, nor should I.
but I don't see you standing up for men to be held responsible for concieving a child that wasn't wanted.
Very few rapes ever actually get prosecuted.
and besides, I was only talking about not knowing if the woman wanted to have a child, not if she wanted sex or not. Again you want to make it all the woman's responsibility.
no...the woman gets off. It's the man who created the situation.
That's just stupid.
If she didn't agree to being impregnated than it's the man's fault.
More stupidity.
I just don't know how to respond to such insanity.
the man does the impregnating...that's the deal.
the man does the impregnating...he is responsible.
Here, maybe this will cheer you up.
Tinky Winke, Dipsy, LaLa, Po and the newest member, Flippy.
She spread her legs, she's also responsible.
THX 1138 8/5/04 8:41pm
Indeed. It takes two to tango.
often he spreds them for her. she can spred all she wants, but the man still has to IMPREGNATE her.
the man impregnates the woman. That's the way it works.
Are you talking rape here? That's not the impression I got from your post.
I'm talking about men being held responsible for the results of their impregnating women.
Some of these same people believe murdering a child is a capital offense.
Are you saying that the unborn child committed suicide? Weird. I do not think that the unborn child has any say at all whether it is aborted or not.
no, they get to decide when they are impregnated and what to do about it, not me.
Didn't the woman make that decision when she decided to have unprotected sex? Same goes for the man. My 12 year old can tell you that a woman can get pregnant from sex, so don't try to tell me she didn't know what would happen.
Talk about keeping them dumb and pregnant.
IÂ don't get any say in it, nor should I.
but I don't see you standing up for men to be held responsible for concieving a child that wasn't wanted.
I am the one saying that they should pay child support and such. You are the one saying that the man shouldn't have any responsibility concerning the child. You do not even believe that the man should have a say in if the child lives or not.
Again you want to make it all the woman's responsibility.
B.S. I have always said and felt that the man is responsible as well. That is why I am married and taking care of my own children.  Sure my financial life would be easier without children, I could go to the bar whenever I felt like it, etc.,  but that is not what is most important and I take my responsibilities very seriously.
If I did not want children, there is many ways to avoid the pregnancy in the first place, but you do not wish to give me that responsibility. You want to take the responsibility of if I should have children or not away from me and put it on my wife. Why would you wish to force that responsibility on my wife?
no, the man made the decision when he impregnated the woman.
I'm talking about men being held responsible for the results of their impregnating women.
So what's the problem?
I don't disagree with you.
Just don't forget holding the woman responsible for letting herself get impregnated.
no...if the child gets aborted, they are responsible for that.
Do you actually believe this nonsense you're posting?
Or do all your sexual encounters include forcing women to have sex with you?
none do.
Or do all your sexual encounters include forcing women to have sex with you?
New tagline ?
So you really believe this nonsense you're posting?
Next question: Have you had any sexual encounters? Just asking because the answer changes the meaning of your last answer.
no, the man made the decision when he impregnated the woman.
Holy cow, you sure have a low opinion of women. Are you saying they are too stupid to know that they will get pregnant, therefore it is the man's fault? Amazing
no...if the child gets aborted, they are responsible for that.
I thought you said that was the responsibility of the woman and the man has no say? Which is it and do you write Kerry's speeches
Goodnight gang.
I'm Ghandi too. Night.
Crabs is a real hoot sometimes.