Not at all, Rich. We have a separate thread for abortion, it's been discussed ad nauseam around here for years, and the thread was set up specifically because the subject seemed to come up on every single thread because certain people have a one-track mind and can't shut up about the subject and segue into it with every other post. It got tiresome so the separate thread was created. Once in a while a little reminder is needed. Nobody's ever complained about that before.
One other caveat. You can write off the costs associated with the medical care during the pregnancy even if the child is never born. So in one way you already can.Â
but who is the patient receiving care? very very very seldom is it actually the fetus.
why is it ok to remove a malignant tumor? genetically, it is different from the person suffering from cancer. yet we are actively working on ways to eliminate it? by many arguments from the anti-abortion crowd here, that the fetus has a different set of dna from the mother, that cancer would also be a different being by virtue of its different dna. what gives?
it's called "birth" The child is human from conception. What else could it be?
I do not believe that there is a specific moment at which a fetus becomes a human being. Logic dictates, and science supports, that a human being begins at conception.
Logic says that a fertilized ovum is not a human being; it can become one under the right circumstances, but it isn't one at that stage.
How logical is that, really? All the sudden some magical thing occurs to make the object human?  Â
I would agree that the decisions your daughter had to make concerning her pregnancy are none of my or the State's business. Â
Protecting human beings is the government's business. In fact that is why government was created in the first place.
At conception there is a human being because it is an essential stage in the life of all people.
by that logic, so is being an individual sperm and ovum.Â
Only an idiot, like you ares, would believe that. Sperm cells and ovum cells, have DNA of the man or the woman. When the combine you have a different object with distinct DNA from the parents.
"Take the Moore/Limbaugh divide. A new Annenberg poll shows that the two infotainers are little more than postmodern tribal leaders:an estimated 8 percent of Americans saw Fahrenheit 9/11 in July, and an estimated 7 percent listened to Limbaugh. Their tribes are hilariously antithetical on a range of issues -- 83 percent of Rushites support the way Bush is handling Iraq, 87 percent of Mooreists are opposed; 85 percent of Rushites support Bush's handling of the economy, and 82 percent of Mooreists don't.
"And yet, these extremist clumps throw disproportionate weight in the public square. Dick Cheney appears on Limbaugh's show; Moore appears in Jimmy Carter's box at the Democratic Convention. But even if you generously double their numbers -- as some experts like Andrew Kohut of the Pew poll do -- that leaves 70 percent of the public unaccounted for. What about the rest of us?
"We democrats are deeply flawed people, we can be earnestly boring and awfully righteous about moral issues in faraway places. We can be weenies, capable of doing dumb things in the name of the common good. But we do stick to our guns. We believe decency and public spiritedness and have refused to hitch our wagon to yahooism and have supported government as a force for good. And we are passionate. This is a year for passion."
Garrison Keillor -- from Homegrown Democrat
Dedicated to all the good Democratic-Farmer-Laborites of Minnesota
"Despite the gaggle of corporate shills, hobby cops, misanthropic frat boys, dittoheads, gun fetishists, shrieking midgets and nihilists in golf pants, and their Etch-a-Sketch president with a voice like a dial tone, this is a great country. And what unites us is our moral duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than than however we found it. We have a long way to go and we're not getting any younger."
Republicans have perfectly nice manners, normal hair, pleasant smiles, good deoderants, but when it some down to cases, you do not want them monitoring your oxygen flow: they will set it to the minimum required to sustain your basic brain function, and then they will recite a little prayer for you. They are a party that is all about perceptions, the Christian party that conceals enormous, glittering malice and is led by brilliant bandits who are dividing and conquering the sweet land I grew up in. I don't accept this.
"In the new privatized, low-tax, minimal services society the Republicans are striving to lay on us, public transportation will offer no pleasure whatsoever. The bus will be for losers and dopes. The driver will sit in a bulletproof box and there will be no conversations with him. The bus will be full of angry, sullen people who have lost all hope that their kids will rise to a better life, which is the hope that makes it possible for me to turn to you and say something about the weather. Civility leads to civilities. In Republican America you will not enjoy public life, period. The public library, that great domocratic temple, will become a waiting room for desperate, broken people, the alkies, the wacked-out, the unemployables and the public schools will become holding tanks for children whose parents were too unresourceful to find good schools for them, and politics will be so ugly and rancid that decent people will avoid expressing and opinion for fear of being screeched at and hectored and spat on."
Garrison Keillor -- Homegrown Democrat.
Note: Our neighborhood library is only open three days a week, due to budget cuts. My wife could not check out a book, and bought this one for me at Borders.
[Edited 5 times. Most recently by on Aug 22, 2004 at 07:28am.]
I think Keillor is a Christian and doesn't deny it. He seems fairly knowledgable in The Word, too. He used to travel from town to town holding hymn singing gatherings. He's spread the word of God from coast to coast.
So JT, all you really have left is Republican.
So you think he's bigoted against Republicans? There's probably more Republicans who hate him, than individual Republicans he hates.
Does that make the Republicans hatemongers? You don't have to answer that.
So, you accept without question rapists and murderers and thieves?
Oh, so now Republicans are rapists and murderers and thieves.
So JT, all you really have left is Republican.
Not quite. He's hateful and bigoted against anyone that doesn't agree with him. I specifically mentioned Republicans and Christians. All you have to do is read your own posts. The man is seething with hatred and anger.
Crabby is now equating Repbulican with Communist, Nazi, Al Quada, and the Taliban.
in that they are all political groups that one chooses to join, they are.
I'm trying to show you that equating having a problem with a group that one joins with being black or hispanic in order to apply the term "bigot" is wrong.
hating Republicans no more bigoted than hating the Taliban or the Nazis.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by molegrass on Aug 23, 2004 at 05:36am.]
I'm trying to show you that equating having a problem with a group that one joins with being black or hispanic in order to apply the term "bigot" is wrong.
You're comparing apples and kumquats.
Bigotry is bigotry.
hating Republicans no more bigoted than hating the Taliban or the Nazis.
Yes it is, and your comparison of the two shows just how out of touch with reality you and yours are.
Yes it is, [hating Republicans no more bigoted than hating the Taliban or the Nazis] and your comparison of the two shows just how out of touch with reality you and yours are.
First of all, hating a politcal belief isn't bigotry...but if it was (and it's not)...and "bigotry is bigotry" (as you suggest), then hating Republicans would be the same bigotry as hating Nazis.
Kellior is a bitter guy. He can be funny, yet be a very bitter person. Maybe it was all those powdermilk bisquits' they make you bitter and angry apparently.
This whole discussion belongs on another thread. Please take it there so I can ignore it.
Muskwa 8/5/04 11:16pm
Who are you to tell us what we can discuss here?
Who do I have to be?
Muskwa 8/5/04 11:22pm
Ok. I will rephrase...
Why do you think you can dictate who can post here? Are you adverse to hearing views that differ from your own?
Muskwa 8/5/04 11:16pm
Do you you think that abortion is NOT politcal these days?
Not at all, Rich. We have a separate thread for abortion, it's been discussed ad nauseam around here for years, and the thread was set up specifically because the subject seemed to come up on every single thread because certain people have a one-track mind and can't shut up about the subject and segue into it with every other post. It got tiresome so the separate thread was created. Once in a while a little reminder is needed. Nobody's ever complained about that before.
Muskwa 8/5/04 11:32pm
So you don't want a politically charged issue like abortion to be dicussed on a thread labeled "General Politics"?
ideally no. not when there's a specific thread designated for it.
There's no stopping this group when they get wound up on abortion talk.
One other caveat. You can write off the costs associated with the medical care during the pregnancy even if the child is never born. So in one way you already can.Â
but who is the patient receiving care? very very very seldom is it actually the fetus.
why is it ok to remove a malignant tumor? genetically, it is different from the person suffering from cancer. yet we are actively working on ways to eliminate it? by many arguments from the anti-abortion crowd here, that the fetus has a different set of dna from the mother, that cancer would also be a different being by virtue of its different dna. what gives?
Muskwa is right, we should mosey on over to the abortion thread.
Ares, I'll respond to you in there.
it's called "birth" The child is human from conception. What else could it be?
I do not believe that there is a specific moment at which a fetus becomes a human being. Logic dictates, and science supports, that a human being begins at conception.
Logic says that a fertilized ovum is not a human being; it can become one under the right circumstances, but it isn't one at that stage.
How logical is that, really? All the sudden some magical thing occurs to make the object human?  Â
I would agree that the decisions your daughter had to make concerning her pregnancy are none of my or the State's business.Â
Â
Protecting human beings is the government's business. In fact that is why government was created in the first place.
At conception there is a human being because it is an essential stage in the life of all people.
by that logic, so is being an individual sperm and ovum.Â
Only an idiot, like you ares, would believe that. Sperm cells and ovum cells, have DNA of the man or the woman. When the combine you have a different object with distinct DNA from the parents.
crabs responded: no, the man made the decision when he impregnated the woman.Â
I guess in crabs world women are unable to decide to have sex but they can decide to abort their child.
crabs response to the above: none do.
Are you gay, crabs?
Â
no
are you making a pass at me?
Thanks, Rob!
I took a little comfort in this Joe Klein column
"Take the Moore/Limbaugh divide. A new Annenberg poll shows that the two infotainers are little more than postmodern tribal leaders:an estimated 8 percent of Americans saw Fahrenheit 9/11 in July, and an estimated 7 percent listened to Limbaugh. Their tribes are hilariously antithetical on a range of issues -- 83 percent of Rushites support the way Bush is handling Iraq, 87 percent of Mooreists are opposed; 85 percent of Rushites support Bush's handling of the economy, and 82 percent of Mooreists don't.
"And yet, these extremist clumps throw disproportionate weight in the public square. Dick Cheney appears on Limbaugh's show; Moore appears in Jimmy Carter's box at the Democratic Convention. But even if you generously double their numbers -- as some experts like Andrew Kohut of the Pew poll do -- that leaves 70 percent of the public unaccounted for. What about the rest of us?
"Maybe we're just busy living our lives."
Do you come around here just to ridicule people for having a discussion, on, well, a discussion board, Bill?
"We democrats are deeply flawed people, we can be earnestly boring and awfully righteous about moral issues in faraway places. We can be weenies, capable of doing dumb things in the name of the common good. But we do stick to our guns. We believe decency and public spiritedness and have refused to hitch our wagon to yahooism and have supported government as a force for good. And we are passionate. This is a year for passion."
Garrison Keillor -- from Homegrown Democrat
Dedicated to all the good Democratic-Farmer-Laborites of Minnesota
[Edited by on Aug 21, 2004 at 03:48pm.]
"Despite the gaggle of corporate shills, hobby cops, misanthropic frat boys, dittoheads, gun fetishists, shrieking midgets and nihilists in golf pants, and their Etch-a-Sketch president with a voice like a dial tone, this is a great country. And what unites us is our moral duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than than however we found it. We have a long way to go and we're not getting any younger."
Garrison Keillor --- Homegrown Democrat
Republicans have perfectly nice manners, normal hair, pleasant smiles, good deoderants, but when it some down to cases, you do not want them monitoring your oxygen flow: they will set it to the minimum required to sustain your basic brain function, and then they will recite a little prayer for you. They are a party that is all about perceptions, the Christian party that conceals enormous, glittering malice and is led by brilliant bandits who are dividing and conquering the sweet land I grew up in. I don't accept this.
Garrison Keillor --- Homegrown Democrat.
Homegrown bigot.
"In the new privatized, low-tax, minimal services society the Republicans are striving to lay on us, public transportation will offer no pleasure whatsoever. The bus will be for losers and dopes. The driver will sit in a bulletproof box and there will be no conversations with him. The bus will be full of angry, sullen people who have lost all hope that their kids will rise to a better life, which is the hope that makes it possible for me to turn to you and say something about the weather. Civility leads to civilities. In Republican America you will not enjoy public life, period. The public library, that great domocratic temple, will become a waiting room for desperate, broken people, the alkies, the wacked-out, the unemployables and the public schools will become holding tanks for children whose parents were too unresourceful to find good schools for them, and politics will be so ugly and rancid that decent people will avoid expressing and opinion for fear of being screeched at and hectored and spat on."
Garrison Keillor -- Homegrown Democrat.
Note: Our neighborhood library is only open three days a week, due to budget cuts. My wife could not check out a book, and bought this one for me at Borders.
[Edited 5 times. Most recently by on Aug 22, 2004 at 07:28am.]
Homegrown bigot.
What or who is his bigotry?
Replace "Republican" & "Christian" with "Black" & "Hispanic".
GK is a bigot and a hatemonger.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Aug 22, 2004 at 01:46pm.]
people choose to be Republicans and Christians
Oh, so sometimes it's ok to be bigoted.
I see.
So, you accept without question rapists and murderers and thieves?
You don't judge anyone based on what they do?
I think Keillor is a Christian and doesn't deny it. He seems fairly knowledgable in The Word, too. He used to travel from town to town holding hymn singing gatherings. He's spread the word of God from coast to coast.
So JT, all you really have left is Republican.
So you think he's bigoted against Republicans? There's probably more Republicans who hate him, than individual Republicans he hates.
Does that make the Republicans hatemongers? You don't have to answer that.
HEH! JT does the crabgrass spin.
Hate is hate end of story.
So, you accept without question rapists and murderers and thieves?
Oh, so now Republicans are rapists and murderers and thieves.
So JT, all you really have left is Republican.
Not quite. He's hateful and bigoted against anyone that doesn't agree with him. I specifically mentioned Republicans and Christians. All you have to do is read your own posts. The man is seething with hatred and anger.
Maybe he's saying things I don't have the guts to say,
So, in your heart you're just as hateful as he is, and you just don't have any balls?
so, if you hate Nazis, you are a bigot?
If you hate Communists, you are a bigot?
If you hate Fascists, you are a bigot?
If you hate Satanists, you are a bigot?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by molegrass on Aug 23, 2004 at 01:06am.]
"So, in your heart you're just as hateful as he is, "
I think he's passionate and plain spoken.
Sometimes I think I'm too much of a country club Democrat.
[Edited by on Aug 23, 2004 at 05:26am.]
If you hate the Taliban or al Quida, are you a bigot?
Crabby is now equating Repbulican with Communist, Nazi, Al Quada, and the Taliban.
Â
in that they are all political groups that one chooses to join, they are.
I'm trying to show you that equating having a problem with a group that one joins with being black or hispanic in order to apply the term "bigot" is wrong.
hating Republicans no more bigoted than hating the Taliban or the Nazis.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by molegrass on Aug 23, 2004 at 05:36am.]
I'm trying to show you that equating having a problem with a group that one joins with being black or hispanic in order to apply the term "bigot" is wrong.
You're comparing apples and kumquats.
Bigotry is bigotry.
hating Republicans no more bigoted than hating the Taliban or the Nazis.
Yes it is, and your comparison of the two shows just how out of touch with reality you and yours are.
Homegrown Idiot by Garrison Keillor
that would be you, THX...
race = apples
political beliefs = kumquats
not according to you...
First of all, hating a politcal belief isn't bigotry...but if it was (and it's not)...and "bigotry is bigotry" (as you suggest), then hating Republicans would be the same bigotry as hating Nazis.
You pull out a dictionary, and it says a person can be a bigot if they hate someone for their opinions. But the term isn't commonly applied to that.
But I don't think Keillor's comments indicate bigotry or hatred. Limbaugh's stuff is just as direct though not as funny or elegant.
I'm a bigot too I guess.
I wouldn't go as far as "Hate", but I can't stand Keillor.
there is nothing elegant about Keillor and he is only occassionaly funny.
Kellior is a bitter guy. He can be funny, yet be a very bitter person. Maybe it was all those powdermilk bisquits' they make you bitter and angry apparently.
He's fed up.
As we are of him.