My theory is based on the fact that it looks like the type of virus that was designed.
Balderdash. You been talking to Art Bell or something?
Yours is based on the theory that it just sorta happened by chance.
It wasn't chance, but I like Jethro's response. The fact of the matter is, the AIDS virus is found in monkeys, but it's not fatal to them. My only conclusion is that humans somehow contracted it from them. I don't even want to know how, but nothing would surprise me.
I think disease can transfer from one creature to another in ways that aren't what you're considering. You don't need to assume deviant origins unless -- for reasons that are your own -- you choose to.
Monkeys are cooked and eaten in some parts of Africa.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Sep 27, 2004 at 04:35pm.]
One theory of the origin of AIDS is that it developed from contaminated vaccines used in the world's first mass immunisation for polio. There are a number of reasons why this theory is plausible enough to be worthy of further investigation.
The location coincides dramatically. The earliest known cases of AIDS occurred in central Africa, in the same regions where Koprowski's polio vaccine was given to over a million people in 1957-1960.
The timing coincides. There is no documented case of HIV infection or AIDS before 1959. Centuries of the slave trade and European exploitation of Africa exposed Africans and others to all other diseases then known; it is implausible that HIV could have been present and spreading in Africa without being recognised.
Polio vaccines are grown (cultured) on monkey kidneyswhich could have been contaminated by SIVs. Polio vaccines could not be screened for SIV contamination before 1985.
Another monkey virus, SV-40, is known to have been passed to humans through polio vaccines. A specific pool of Koprowski's vaccine was later shown to have been contaminated by an unknown virus.
In order for a virus to infect a different species, it is helpful to reduce the resistance of the new host's immune system. Koprowski's polio vaccine was given to many children less than one month old, before their immune systems were fully developed. Indeed, in one trial, infants were given 15 times the standard dose in order to ensure effective immunisation.
I don't have an irrational fear of them. Some of them are pretty cool some just are creepy. Now snakes, I do have an irrational fear of them I hate the damn things worse than Indiana Jones ever did.
Seriously, though, the most likely route for a mutant SIV to have entered the human population is through monkey blood getting into cuts, sores and orifices such as the eyes and nose while infected monkeys were being gutted and dismembered for cooking. Bites are another possibility.
The germ warfare theory is a bit farfetched due to the fact that HIV is the first known transmissible retrovirus, and it takes far too long to render an infected person disabled. What you'd want in an ideal germ warfare agent is something that knocks people down quickly for a few days, doesn't kill a lot of 'em, and that you can immunize your own forces against. A 72-hour vomiting/diarrhea disorder would be perfect. Move in, take over, and have a labor force in place, without the public-health problems of bunches of dead bodies lying about.
Crabby, there's a huge difference between viruses and retroviruses. The first human-infecting retrovirus was discovered in 1981 -- making it highly unlikely that evil germ warfare scientists were fooling around with them prior to that date.
Although other animal retroviruses were discovered that invariably were linked to animal malignancies.. the birth of human retrovirol. ogy was stalled for more than 70 years as scientists through. out the world unsuccessfully searched for evidence of retroviral infections within the human population. That search was culminated in the late 1970s at the National Cancer Institute, where a team of scientists including Drs. Bernard Poiesz, Francis Ruscetti, and Robert Gallo, isolated and characterized the firs human retrovirus and linked it to human malignancy. It was initially referred to as the human T-cell leukemia virus, but now it is named the human T-cell lymphotropic virus type I HTLV-I). Within a year, a second human retrovirus HTLV-II), also linked to a human malignancy, was reported by the same research team. Approximately five years later, the "AIDS" virus, which causes an immunodeficiency, became the third human retrovirus discovered.
Gallo published the first article about HTLV-1 in 1981.
It's a long way from knowing that retroviruses can infect humans to custom-making one, and the oldest sample of human blood with HIV detected in it dates to 1959. Must have been the CIA's time machine. You know, the one they don't tell us about.
Those in Europe, and on a limited basis elsewhere, who have undertaken such experiments, have found that granting same-sex partnerships the status of marriage is not strengthening the institution of marriage nor improving children's chances of growing up with a married mother and father. Either way, the Heritage research came at it from the other angle. What good comes from standing up for the traditional family? What makes it worth defending?
BAGHDAD, Iraq Â— A series of bombs killed 35 children and seven adults Thursday as U.S. troops handed out candy at a government ceremony to inaugurate a new sewage treatment plant.Â
WASHINGTON – Along with their ballots for president, Colorado voters will decide on Nov. 2 whether to try an electoral experiment that grew out of the 2000 Florida debacle and could end up sending a new post-election case rocketing to the Supreme Court.
If the ballot initiative passes, Colorado will change the way it awards its nine Electoral College votes for president. The electoral votes would be apportioned according to the popular vote instead of all going to the candidate who comes in first.
"But Bush held only a three-point advantage among all registered voters, down from seven points in a Post-ABC News survey conducted before the debate."
He frittered away a 90 percent approval rating. An incumbent president who has raised mountains of money, in time of war, is wthin the margin of error.
He frittered away a 90 percent approval rating. Just like I thought your kind is using that number that everyone knows is unrealistic. Your kind is filled with lies. Â
KERRY: The time line that I've set out -- and again, I want to correct the president, because he's misled again this evening on what I've said. I didn't say I would bring troops out in six months.
What? I heard from a very reputable source (NOT), that Kerry would do it in four months?
My theory is based on the fact that it looks like the type of virus that was designed.
Balderdash. You been talking to Art Bell or something?
Yours is based on the theory that it just sorta happened by chance.
It wasn't chance, but I like Jethro's response. The fact of the matter is, the AIDS virus is found in monkeys, but it's not fatal to them. My only conclusion is that humans somehow contracted it from them. I don't even want to know how, but nothing would surprise me.
I think disease can transfer from one creature to another in ways that aren't what you're considering. You don't need to assume deviant origins unless -- for reasons that are your own -- you choose to.
Monkeys are cooked and eaten in some parts of Africa.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Sep 27, 2004 at 04:35pm.]
Monkeys are cooked and eaten in some parts of Africa.
If they were undercooked or even raw, could this be a possibility?
(insert Homer voice) Mmmmm, Moonnnkeeeys.
One theory of the origin of AIDS is that it developed from contaminated vaccines used in the world's first mass immunisation for polio. There are a number of reasons why this theory is plausible enough to be worthy of further investigation.
Polio vaccines are grown (cultured) on monkey kidneyswhich could have been contaminated by SIVs. Polio vaccines could not be screened for SIV contamination before 1985.
http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/
All I know is, monkeys give me the creeps. Ever since the Wizzard of Oz and "Outbreak". Curious George is o.k though. Â
No, it's not my basis for anything... actually.
"If they were undercooked or even raw, could this be a possibility?"
I think so. But that's not deviant, that's a diet that's not uncommon in some parts of the world.
"All I know is, monkeys give me the creeps. Ever since the Wizzard of Oz" and "Outbreak".'
That's peculiar to me. I always saw them as pretty fascinating animals.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Sep 27, 2004 at 05:34pm.]
I don't have an irrational fear of them. Some of them are pretty cool some just are creepy. Now snakes, I do have an irrational fear of them I hate the damn things worse than Indiana Jones ever did.
Saw a large gopher snake when I was out fishing this summer. I don't care for them, either.
I don't like bats.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Sep 27, 2004 at 05:54pm.]
But that's not deviant
I wasn't trying to imply that it was. Just adding to the possibilities of how it got started.
Monkeys are cooked and eaten in some parts of Africa.
Maybe it isn't deviant behaviour. Cooking them however will kill the virus. Now if they ate them raw....
Eeeew.
[Edited by on Sep 27, 2004 at 07:17pm.]
BTW: The reason I mentioned the deviant behavior is because that's what Zappa suggested was so absurd.
Although absurd, I don't find it outside of the realm of possibility.
I had a McMonkey value meal today, (it's number 8 on the menu) shouldn't have super sized it got heartburn somethin' fierce now.
McDonald's doesn't supersize any more.
They said they ended it because they were running out of room on the keypad.
How lame is that! People who ordered it were turning into blimps.
[Edited by on Sep 27, 2004 at 07:24pm.]
People around the world eat all sorts of things we would find weird.
Many Koreans can't understand how we can have dogs as pets living in our houses.
I ate jellyfish a couple weeks ago in Shanghai.
I don't even want to know what I ate in Japan or Korea. I learned not to ask. It tasted better that way.
I ate jellyfish last weekend in Los Angeles.
Seriously, though, the most likely route for a mutant SIV to have entered the human population is through monkey blood getting into cuts, sores and orifices such as the eyes and nose while infected monkeys were being gutted and dismembered for cooking. Bites are another possibility.
The germ warfare theory is a bit farfetched due to the fact that HIV is the first known transmissible retrovirus, and it takes far too long to render an infected person disabled. What you'd want in an ideal germ warfare agent is something that knocks people down quickly for a few days, doesn't kill a lot of 'em, and that you can immunize your own forces against. A 72-hour vomiting/diarrhea disorder would be perfect. Move in, take over, and have a labor force in place, without the public-health problems of bunches of dead bodies lying about.
You go fucking around with viruses, you never know what you might get.
Crabby, there's a huge difference between viruses and retroviruses. The first human-infecting retrovirus was discovered in 1981 -- making it highly unlikely that evil germ warfare scientists were fooling around with them prior to that date.
Like they are gonna tell us what they are doing.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1189/is_n5_v261/ai_7668153
I don't even want to know what I ate in Japan or Korea. I learned not to ask. It tasted better that way.
Â
I'm wondering if you ate some raw or uncooked monkey???
I don't want to know, for the same reason I don't ask what's in a hot dog. You're better off not knowing.
Gallo published the first article about HTLV-1 in 1981.
It's a long way from knowing that retroviruses can infect humans to custom-making one, and the oldest sample of human blood with HIV detected in it dates to 1959. Must have been the CIA's time machine. You know, the one they don't tell us about.
Now, speaking of Monkees... I wonder how that Quadraped GDubbyawill do tonight, in the first of these so-called "DEBATES"...?
Well at least the quadraped monkey probably knows the debates are tomorrow and not tonight. :)
Someone hasn't been updating their Franklin Planner.
Well don't look now but the retarded quadraped simeon is in the lead :)
Yet he's still beating Kerry.
lookout. Sky is falling. I'm sure by the time Bush gets done with it, this place will look like Ethiopia.
Those in Europe, and on a limited basis elsewhere, who have undertaken such experiments, have found that granting same-sex partnerships the status of marriage is not strengthening the institution of marriage nor improving children's chances of growing up with a married mother and father. Either way, the Heritage research came at it from the other angle. What good comes from standing up for the traditional family? What makes it worth defending?
 http://www.townhall.com/columnists/rebeccahagelin/rh20040930.shtml
BAGHDAD, Iraq Â— A series of bombs killed 35 children and seven adults Thursday as U.S. troops handed out candy at a government ceremony to inaugurate a new sewage treatment plant.Â
 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134041,00.html
I see where the terrorists were out campaigning for Kerry again.
Below the belt, jethro, but that's the way conservatives are getting in this campaign.
Below the belt, jethro, but that's the way conservatives are getting in this campaign
Liberals have not just been hitting below the belt but blatantly lying about Bush for the past 4 years.
I can't wait for Foldo to cap himself after Bush wins.
WASHINGTON – Along with their ballots for president, Colorado voters will decide on Nov. 2 whether to try an electoral experiment that grew out of the 2000 Florida debacle and could end up sending a new post-election case rocketing to the Supreme Court.
If the ballot initiative passes, Colorado will change the way it awards its nine Electoral College votes for president. The electoral votes would be apportioned according to the popular vote instead of all going to the candidate who comes in first.
New State Elections
Any thoughts on this? For now I am against it. Mostly because the electorial college was put in place to stop mob rule.
Backed-off or not, he was right.
No he wasn't.
Here is a poll for you, fold: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6294-2004Oct4.html?sub=AR
"But Bush held only a three-point advantage among all registered voters, down from seven points in a Post-ABC News survey conducted before the debate."
He frittered away a 90 percent approval rating. An incumbent president who has raised mountains of money, in time of war, is wthin the margin of error.
Bush should be kicking ass.
Bush should be kicking ass.
But since he has been rumored to have tried to dump his VP, I guess I can't wait to see it tonight.
That's Confidencefor ya.
Funny condsidering Kerry first wanted a Republican on his ticket as his first choice. Talk about confidence.
He frittered away a 90 percent approval rating. Just like I thought your kind is using that number that everyone knows is unrealistic. Your kind is filled with lies. Â
Bush should be kicking ass. He still might.
Can you say, Haliburton Who, Dick?
Do you think anyone but left wing extremists think twice about Haliburton?
But since he has been rumored to have tried to dump his VP, I guess I can't wait to see it tonight.
That's
Confidence
for ya.
Rumors put out by democrats and a few liberal republicans.
Fold believes in a new rumor almost everyday.
Rumors put out by democrats and a few liberal republicans.
Like the one that Powell was going to resign before the election?
The one that Cheney would not be Bush's running mate?
That Bush would pick a "Real Veteran" as a running mate?
That Rumsfield would quit?
Or the one where top Bush advisors would be found to have broken the law?
Or the one where we'd have much lower gas prices by now?
Or my favorite, about the recall of Arnold in California within six days of him taking office?
Fucking moron.
[Edited by on Oct 5, 2004 at 07:52pm.]
KERRY: The time line that I've set out -- and again, I want to correct the president, because he's misled again this evening on what I've said. I didn't say I would bring troops out in six months.
What? I heard from a very reputable source (NOT), that Kerry would do it in four months?