Speaking of murderous dictators... General Augusto Pinochet, Ferdinand Marcos, General Suharto, Anastasio Somoza, Pol Pot. All murderous dictators. All either directly of indirectly supported or installed by the CIA. The CIA has overthrown or helped to overthow something like 20 functioning democracies.
But we want to get rid of murderous dictators in favor of democracies because we are such a altruistic country. We just KNOW what is good for these people, right?
Compliance to something we ourselves don't comply with.
There was a story today about some lab workers being exposed to a potential bioterror organism. We are working on a bioterror organism? Where is the compliance in that?
After the last half century of the CIA installing dictators and overthrowing democracies, it's a little late to start claiming that's what we want for the world.
Why bomb the polling places if the Iraqi's don't want elections??? But of course, I am biased because I think...
If they don't want our help and are not thankful for us being here, why are there so many willing to overcome the targeting of coalition supporters, to become policemen, Iraqi National Guard, etc...?? But of course they are biased, since we gave them the option to have a REAL vote...
Oh, and who do you suppose is training them? Man, I don't see them killing us, from inside our own gates... (ING) But of course they are biased, since they owe their training to us...
And from my friends who leave the wire, they always come back with good news about how we are accepted by the local population. But of course they are biased, their job depends on us being here...
I amy not agree with how this war was started, but Iraq is better for us being here, and will be better in the future. We live in the here and now, and let's make the best with what we are stuck with... Â But what do I know... I am biased because I live here...
I'm just using common sense here.... but it seems to me that a person who bombs something doesn't like the ideas that place stands for.
Call them what you like (those individuals and groups causing insurrection), rebels or whatever. Regardless we all know the people we are talking about, so trying to argue this simple term is nonsense.
stupid question/assumption
As far as the people wanting to vote or not? The interim government has taken the lead on pushing for elections. Regardless of how we have come to this point, this interim government is made up of people from Iraq and they are leading Iraq right now. They are the ones getting the ballots set and the polling places up and running.
The people of Iraq who choose to vote will and those who don't, won't. It's now a right of those people.
Do the people of Iraq want to vote?
Their interim government says they do.
Last time I checked this current government was recognized in the world as the body leading and speaking for the Iraqi people.
Even in the United States the Government says we want to have the freedom to vote. That doesn't mean everyone wants to or will. But our government says we "as a people" want that right.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Jan 20, 2005 at 07:48pm.]
But I thought that there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq? I thought that the Iraq war was just a distraction from those who actually ran planes into buildings in the U.S.? Or was it for all that oil that we now enjoy? And why are they bragging about being your brothers Crabs?
Read the news Crabs. The Islamic terrorists do not want the freedom to vote in Iraq and are bombing and shooting at polling centers, many of which are schools. They are even bragging about it. But you already knew that didn't you?
Call them what you like (those individuals and groups causing insurrection), rebels or whatever. Regardless we all know the people we are talking about, so trying to argue this simple term is nonsense.
Apparently not, since you seem to not be having any luck actually saying who these people are or why they have anything to do with if Iraqis want to vote or not.
Your brothers from Al Qaeda Organization of Holy War in Iraq
So, Al Queda doesn't want them to vote? Uh... Al Queda doesn't want the US tell people what to do. Doesn't matter if it's democracy or theocracy or what, they don't want the west to tell them what to do at the point of a gun.
Let's say China wants us to follow the little red book, should they come over here and liberate us with bombs?
He doesn't have time to use the common sense on this topic...
Common sense tells you that it's nowhere near as simple or black and white as you want it to be.
Common sense tells you that the CIA's record with not only supporting terrorism when it serves our purpose, but removing duly elected governments and installing our own murderous dictators. Look at our history with Iran and Iraq. Who installed the Shah? Who befriended Saddam to fight Iran for us? It's just not as black and white as you make it, never has been. (Who sold guns so we could overthrow yet another elected government somewhere else? Who made deals with terrorists to do these things?) To say, that was then, this is now is bullshit. This thing has a history that you can't ignore, as much as you may want to. A istory that tells us it's not as simple nor as black and white as you want to make it. Common sense tells you that people in other countries have very good reason to not want the US to decide what our government should or should not be, any more than they would want Russia or China to tell them what to do.
We are being bullies. Forcing people to "be free" at the point of a gun isn't freedom. It's tyranny.
Apparently not, since you seem to not be having any luck actually saying who these people are or why they have anything to do with if Iraqis want to vote or not.
So tell me crabgrass. Do you think we should give them pet names or something so that you have something specific to call them?
You really can't be this simple minded.
Common sense tells you that it's nowhere near as simple or black and white as you want it to be.
Why don't you step up and provide the rest of the world a solution then :)
Why don't you step up and provide the rest of the world a solution then
People tried and were still trying, but Bush invaded a country that did not attack us and killed at least 15,000 of their civilians instead of listening to anyone else.
Man that's slimey.
that's horrible trying to bring up reality like that during the Coronation
What about all the good that's being done in Iraq?
Yeah, fuck that. That doesn't serve your agenda.
15,000 civilians dead and counting... what are the good things?
What has 150 BILLION dollars and counting bought us?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by molegrass on Jan 19, 2005 at 07:11pm.]
15,000 civilians dead and counting... what are the good things?
As sad and horrible as that is, it's nothing compared to how many Saddam was killing.
You need to be more open minded and hold the long view.
Iraq, and more importantly the entire Middle East needs Democracy.
Who are we to tell the Middle East what it needs?
This makes about as much sense as the Middle East telling us that we need their way of life.
What has 150 BILLION dollars and counting bought us?
History will tell.
So, if you go out and kill someone, you can justify it by saying it's okay because some serial killer killed a lot more?
History showed us what happened when the United Kingdom tried it.
Now you want to relive it.
Who are we to tell the Middle East what it needs?
Make up your mind.
Who are we to tell anyone what they need.
One side of your mouth says, "take care and help other people", the other side says "butt out".
You really don't understand the difference between helping someone and telling them what to do, do you?
You think we're telling the Iraqi's what to do more than Saddam did?
I think we are telling them to do something they haven't wanted for a lot more years than there was an America.
I think we are telling them to do something they haven't wanted for a lot more years than there was an America.
What are you talking about?
You think the Iraqis don't want Democracy?
Seems to me Osama's the one saying such things about Democracy, not the average Iraqi.
If the Middle East wanted "democracy", don't you think maybe they would have gotten around to it by now?
You deciding what they want for them is like Russia deciding what we wanted for us.
All it creates is more war.
Is what you want is for the entire world to be forced to be like America?
Is that what you want? The United World of America?
::sigh::
I guess you're right.
A murderous dictator is better for Iraq.
I stand corrected.
Call off the elections!
Bus in Osama and his followers.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Jan 19, 2005 at 08:09pm.]
Let's see, Bush has killed thousands of civilians there and dictating what they should do.
It seems a murderous dictator is exactly what you are suggesting for them.
Let's see, Bush has killed thousands of civilians there and dictating what they should do.
I'll admit, thousands have died. FYI: That happens in war.
As far as Dubya dictating, that's utter nonsense. If that were the case, they wouldn't be pushing for elections.
It seems a murderous dictator is exactly what you are suggesting for them.
Utter nonsense, with no basis in fact.
Speaking of murderous dictators... General Augusto Pinochet, Ferdinand Marcos, General Suharto, Anastasio Somoza, Pol Pot. All murderous dictators. All either directly of indirectly supported or installed by the CIA. The CIA has overthrown or helped to overthow something like 20 functioning democracies.
But we want to get rid of murderous dictators in favor of democracies because we are such a altruistic country. We just KNOW what is good for these people, right?
Wanna buy a bridge?
So they're not holding elections?
No, really, it's a great bridge. I can let you have it wholesale.
Then why all the insurgent bombings of polling places?
Must be Dubya's doing.
That sneaky bastard!
[Edited by on Jan 19, 2005 at 08:31pm.]
uh... we are the one's who started it.
The Iraqi's DON'T want elections?
uh... we are the one's who started it.
LOL
You've a jumbled brain.
12 Years of non compliance, and we started it.
Who is dictating "compliance"?
Compliance to something we ourselves don't comply with.
There was a story today about some lab workers being exposed to a potential bioterror organism. We are working on a bioterror organism? Where is the compliance in that?
We have a longer relationship with Saddam than that. You think we are altruistic in all this? Because I could let you have this bridge for a song.
After the last half century of the CIA installing dictators and overthrowing democracies, it's a little late to start claiming that's what we want for the world.
Why do you waste your time on the wackjob, THX?
why do I have to keep typing '"Quit talking to me crabgrass" - Torpedo-8' so many times?
Forget it JT, trying to get a straight answer from him is like getting blood from a turnip.
Trying to get a straight question from you guys is no picnic either.
Why bomb the polling places if the Iraqi's don't want elections??? But of course, I am biased because I think...
If they don't want our help and are not thankful for us being here, why are there so many willing to overcome the targeting of coalition supporters, to become policemen, Iraqi National Guard, etc...?? But of course they are biased, since we gave them the option to have a REAL vote...
Oh, and who do you suppose is training them? Man, I don't see them killing us, from inside our own gates... (ING) But of course they are biased, since they owe their training to us...
And from my friends who leave the wire, they always come back with good news about how we are accepted by the local population. But of course they are biased, their job depends on us being here...
I amy not agree with how this war was started, but Iraq is better for us being here, and will be better in the future. We live in the here and now, and let's make the best with what we are stuck with...
 But what do I know... I am biased because I live here...
We are bombing the polling places?
We are bombing the polling places?
"Why bomb the polling places if the Iraqi's don't want elections???"
Ask him why the chicken crossed the road OTS :)
WE are bombing the polling places???
Have you been watching al-jazeera again???
I don't know how he got that.... Talk about grasping....
who is bombing the polling places? The Iraqis? The US?
It's a fucking stupid question/assumption and you are surprised when it gets a sarcastic response?
why would WHAT people bomb these places?
And if these undefined people DID bomb these places, how would that determine who or if someone wants to vote or not?
why would WHAT people bomb these places?
I'm just using common sense here.... but it seems to me that a person who bombs something doesn't like the ideas that place stands for.
Call them what you like (those individuals and groups causing insurrection), rebels or whatever. Regardless we all know the people we are talking about, so trying to argue this simple term is nonsense.
stupid question/assumption
As far as the people wanting to vote or not? The interim government has taken the lead on pushing for elections. Regardless of how we have come to this point, this interim government is made up of people from Iraq and they are leading Iraq right now. They are the ones getting the ballots set and the polling places up and running.
The people of Iraq who choose to vote will and those who don't, won't. It's now a right of those people.
Do the people of Iraq want to vote?
Their interim government says they do.
Last time I checked this current government was recognized in the world as the body leading and speaking for the Iraqi people.
Even in the United States the Government says we want to have the freedom to vote. That doesn't mean everyone wants to or will. But our government says we "as a people" want that right.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Jan 20, 2005 at 07:48pm.]
who is bombing the polling places? The Iraqis? The US?
But I thought that there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq? I thought that the Iraq war was just a distraction from those who actually ran planes into buildings in the U.S.? Or was it for all that oil that we now enjoy? And why are they bragging about being your brothers Crabs?
Read the news Crabs. The Islamic terrorists do not want the freedom to vote in Iraq and are bombing and shooting at polling centers, many of which are schools. They are even bragging about it. But you already knew that didn't you?
[Edited by on Jan 20, 2005 at 09:00pm.]
He doesn't have time to use the common sense on this topic... he's to busy looking for reasons to be sarcastic
Apparently not, since you seem to not be having any luck actually saying who these people are or why they have anything to do with if Iraqis want to vote or not.
So, Al Queda doesn't want them to vote? Uh... Al Queda doesn't want the US tell people what to do. Doesn't matter if it's democracy or theocracy or what, they don't want the west to tell them what to do at the point of a gun.
Let's say China wants us to follow the little red book, should they come over here and liberate us with bombs?
Common sense tells you that it's nowhere near as simple or black and white as you want it to be.
Common sense tells you that the CIA's record with not only supporting terrorism when it serves our purpose, but removing duly elected governments and installing our own murderous dictators. Look at our history with Iran and Iraq. Who installed the Shah? Who befriended Saddam to fight Iran for us? It's just not as black and white as you make it, never has been. (Who sold guns so we could overthrow yet another elected government somewhere else? Who made deals with terrorists to do these things?) To say, that was then, this is now is bullshit. This thing has a history that you can't ignore, as much as you may want to. A istory that tells us it's not as simple nor as black and white as you want to make it. Common sense tells you that people in other countries have very good reason to not want the US to decide what our government should or should not be, any more than they would want Russia or China to tell them what to do.
We are being bullies. Forcing people to "be free" at the point of a gun isn't freedom. It's tyranny.
[Edited by molegrass on Jan 20, 2005 at 11:25pm.]
Apparently not, since you seem to not be having any luck actually saying who these people are or why they have anything to do with if Iraqis want to vote or not.
So tell me crabgrass. Do you think we should give them pet names or something so that you have something specific to call them?
You really can't be this simple minded.
Common sense tells you that it's nowhere near as simple or black and white as you want it to be.
Why don't you step up and provide the rest of the world a solution then :)
I think you should at the very least know who they are before you start making claims of their motives and using them to explain someone else's wants.
People tried and were still trying, but Bush invaded a country that did not attack us and killed at least 15,000 of their civilians instead of listening to anyone else.
[Edited by molegrass on Jan 20, 2005 at 11:30pm.]