so you want to be a thread nanny, and force threads to stay on subject? keep on dreaming, cuz thats a really good way to turn people away from the site.
 i don't want to sound like i'm being a jerk towards you either, but the way you started this whole thing was way way way way way out of line and is far from conducive to get anyone to take you seriously, and i don't want to burn any bridges with you, given the nature and opportunity of the technical matter here. at the same time, i kind of feel like the bridge was half-burned to start with from your end of things given how the conversation started.
frankly, were it not for the fact that kt is your mother, this discussion would have been over a long time ago.
I've spent the better part of an afternoon making my abrasive suggestions known, and I'm willing to react to any reactions it provoked. I told green in person "don't worry about me, I'm just a troll :)" and I was met with a smile. It's the truth, and really you can pummel my offer into the ground as I retire to finish the work I should have been doing. My aim was as it always is high, and the weathering of the discussions proves once more to be forgotten in no time at all. :)
ares- no use threatening the red cross, no use threatening me. E-mail MAnderson@iddx.net (since I can't figure out how to change the profile here) if you ever want to execute this offer, for personal or community use. Fast webhosting is a valued commodity.
Anyone else is invited to mail me, for whatever reason, as well. Sign me up for free watch offers or refi's.
/m
PS: I'm not concerned about junkmail. Leave my posts alone, please.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Jan 31, 2005 at 05:34pm.]
Matt, I have never hunted the medallion, but have been accepted by these good people as if I was the best there is. If you have not seen the things they are doing for my nephew Zephyrus who is in Iraq, then you really should look into it. It is just amazing. These are not snobby people. They are the best I have ever met on the internet and at times I feel closer to them than many of my friends in the real world.
If this place does change, I hope you keep it similar to the WebX look and feel. I like that it is in chronological order and broken down into threads based on subject matter. I am talking about the "In the News" threads, the "Medallion Hunt" threads, etc. I also enjoy being able to post pictures from time to time.
As for controlling the obnoxious ones that occasionally show up here with the intent of disrupting things, I think that you need a way to ban their IP Address as just banning a name does nothing but force them to create a new name.
Just my humble opinions on the subjects raised here.
much as i'd like to be able to ban by ip address, its not always possible, especially since aol users all end up coming from the same ip address, and two users that share the same isp could at different times have a banned ip address.
The threat was "if you weren't mom's son, this conversation.." blahh blah, blah. A useless remark to a useless conversation.
Now, I'm done with this, since it's gotten to the point where people think I'm badgering people, thinking them snobs, and all other manner of garbage. My efforts would much more easily be classified as grotesque then given due process.
Again, that's normal human behavior. It's hard to consider for a moment that you could be participating in a less than healthy situation without any feelings of wrongdoing. It's hard, but it's reality. It's life.. Once upon a time it was considered perfectly fine to enslave another human being, and once upon a time it was considered perfectly fine to ruin the psychological minds of children to improve personal fortune by marrying them to the most fiscally compatible families.
ok, no more drama. I'm out, seriously. My offerings will not expire and like always, I hold no harsh feelings regardless of how people have treated me. This is the Internet, and one who dances with it so frequently is quite used to the scuffles one endures when the cages are rattled.
If I might get one request from you, the home viewer, please understand that I wouldn't bother with speaking up unless I gave a shit about this place.
If you think I have nothing better to do than to pester people on an Internet forum, stop thinking; you're wrong.
PS: Grandpa Dan- I understand and embrace your warm feelings. In a less violent response, I know what you mean and I agree. It's a tough job to look out for those in the military, and it's with my respects they carry out their jobs. The comedy of Zeph is fantastic. I hope he finds the medallion.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Feb 1, 2005 at 01:23am.]
Dude.... so whats your beef? Half of the stuff, seems to be bitching about there being an Invite thread, and the other half seems to be about slow websites....
I would be lost w/o the Invitational. There I can go to get away from Matt - and his e-grams (which I still have) - Jake, and their ilk.
I go to the Invitational for peace and quiet, noodling, fun.
I hate the crap Matt, Jake, those kind bring. I just HATE it. But, they're entitled to it. Everyone's entitled to be a horse's ass iffin' they wanna be. So, be one.
But leave me my place to go for 'niceness.'Â I don't want to have to deal with jerks just because they've the right to be that way.Â
I've the right not to have to suffer it.
I don't worry so much about lurkers as the better noodlers do. I'm not good at noodling and tend to remain in one park (BC!). So the lurker issue's not as important to me as having a safe haven to go to.
The creation of the invitational thread has forced people that used to lurk and steal our ideas to actually come up and talk to us in the park and not be strangers anymore. I think it was pretty obvious to anyone that knows the core cooler crew members that something has been wrong the last few years because we weren't really posting in the regular thread that much.
People want to hear what we have to say because quite frankly, someone in our group always gets it right and deciding who's theory is right is easier than making your own theory.
When lurkers found the medallion 2 years in a row, they lost all their ability to lurk good ideas and were sent to their own room to lurk jake and his buddies and what time they are going to buggs.
Then there's the "get your butt of the computer and get to the park" argument.
Bottom line is that this is as open a forum as a private site will be. The TwinCities.com site is still there. If you have a problem here, you are welcome to leave.
Too many people dedicate their time, money and energy ALL YEAR ROUND to provide you with this site. To come in and instigate this sort of bullshit during the ninth and tenth clue of the hunt tells me that the issue is not ours. It also tells me that your proposed intentions are not sincere. Actions speak louder than words.
With that said I am going to take a short nap after days and exhausting hours of actually hunting and digging for the medallion.
I've been trying to come up with a response to this, but I don't really have the time to do it justice. Matt does have a point. He may not be the best messenger for the message. I'd be willing to bet this isn't he only message board Matt frequents, and his style is quite common on most Internet boards that discuss politics, or even more charged topics like whether Janeway or Picard was the better Starfleet Officer.
Inclusiveness is an important value. It also brings some negatives. As much as I appreciate all THX does around here, he really hasn't got the time to moderate a series of flame wars (see the PP board). And, there is the issue of intellectual property--I do think there is an etiquette where if you share an idea, others should share as well.Â
If there are hurt feelings, that is very regrettable. If someone wants to have a "round table" about how things will appear in the future, I'd be happy to be a part of it, although I have zero technical skills.
Thanks, Matt, for you post. And, I'd also like to thank THX, for not only allowing it to stand, but for providing this thread. The fact that Matt's post was not instantly zapped does say something.
I was just thinking that there'll be a year that we all think it's in Como, and clue 10, there's a giant swerve and we all end up at battle creek, with Green standing in the hockey rink in the middle of all those lights going "I told you! I told you!"
I think that the Invitational thread is great. I think that the community and friendships that people form through the cooler crew are very special. When you have a group of people that get to know eachother and make friends there comes a sense of familiarity. It is only natural that since we have been spending so much time together, we have more to say to eachother than topics isolated to noodles. I know that it does take more time to slog through posts that are more along the lines of banter and conversation to get to the clues, but I think that is a good thing. People have made friends through this hunt that they ordinarily wouldn't have. Perhaps within the invitational thread there should be a thread for noodles and a thread for chit-chat. I don't know anything about computers and cannot begin to understand how much work that THX puts in here, but I think that we should all be grateful for this forum because of all the wonderful things that have come out of it. I am just an ordinary latex Importer/Exporter, but I did want to throw in my two cents.
One thing that I think we all have to realize is that this group is growing up and evolving, it has been doing so at a consistant rate since 1998. People started meeting more and more in person, becoming closer friends, meeting more and more at the parks, down at the PP, down at GW, the Lobster, etc. It's just not the same group and environment it was six, seven years ago, or two years ago for that matter. The people who posted here on a regular basis a few years ago are much more busy hanging out with each other now and have less time to write each other on PF. There's even less need now for PF I'd daresay because we've found each other and can say what we think face to face rather than via these threads. (not that I'd like to go without this place)
What started out as a public, open forum in which to discuss the clues has evolved to something different. Bitching about whether or not there is an "invitational" thread amounts to bitching because you aren't part of a particular group of friends. I remember doing that when I was in jr. high.
What hasn't changed is that if you have a love for the hunt, if you love to noodle clues and talk with other people who share your same enthusiasm about the clues, and if you find your way to PF, eventually you'll be embraced and loved by the Cooler Crew. If you doubt that just ask OTS. Ask anyone of us. This group has always and will always have open arms. But we've had to learn to defend ourselves as well, and for that no one should apologize.
There's no easy solution. It's just the way it has to be in order for this group to keep sane and have a place they love. If you don't like it, to f&%ing bad I guess. If you think it should run on other software or hardware, to F%#$ing bad I guess. Go start your own site if you think your more clever and have a better way. If your right then you can be sure most of us will find our way over to it. That's evolution.
Well put, MedallionStallion. If someone bothers to read the THX 1138 intros to each of these threads, they'd see that there's no malice in the creation of "invitation only" areas. People are told to come on in and have a seat at every opportunity.
I think it's just the nature of stating up front "this is invitation only" that rubs some people the wrong way. I think if that thread were renamed next year it would maybe make the issue go away. Something like "Cooler Crew Medallion Gossip" or something along those lines. The old "Shoot the Breeze with the Cooler Crew" was pretty close.
Then if people click to get into that area, they can be greeted with a THX 1138 intro that says "Welcome! This is invitation only but you're invited if you think you might want to talk to us! But be forewarned, we're looking for active participants, not lurkers. Thanks for your interest."
See, that's both nice and to the point without ever having to say "invitation only" in a space for all to see.
You'll never make everyone happy, but I think 95% of us are satisfied, and that's pretty good. This area still has the official PP board beat just because of the jumble of junk topics that sprout up over there. There's also more mean-spiritedness in that realm. Some PP threads are good, but there's a lot of blegh to wade through. Much less so here. And I like the familiarity personally. I feel like when I get the opportunity to meet some of you folks down the line, it'll be like you already know me. And that's a good thing.
...For those of you who do NOT know, the more important (sic) members of this forum are off talking to each other on a different forum, and you have to be invited to their discussion to interact with those that have to date made up what the news, radio, and television refer to as “the cooler crew”. For some reason their idea of community improvement is segregation, and for some reason they have failed to understand the adjectives they have earned for themselves by doing so...
...Those of you loyalists, and those of you who somehow think this arcane message board is fashionable, get your head into fresh air...
...The ivory tower (there's only one I can think of) was destroyed by the Nothing because all that it stood for was being forgotten over time. The view is rather dismal from the vacuum, I suppose...
...My gripes are not with the community, it's with the way it has become a private and exclusivecommunity that discourages everything it was built on to date...
...Now, I'm done with this, since it's gotten to the point where people think I'm badgering people, thinking them snobs, and all other manner of garbage...
It appears to me that you do think of them as snobs and such.
...I understand and embrace your warm feelings...
Then you would understand that these folks are not "segregating loyalist" who think of themselves as "royal" and this place has not become "private and exclusive".
Look, I think that you mean well, but you come across just the opposite and that is what is getting people so upset here.
I don't have any issues with him raising the questions. My problem comes in to where he tries to slimline the conversation to specific things. Then when others bring up valid issues concerning the home we have here and the people who share every moment of their lives he tries to discount that.
The Cooler Crew is in fact an online community. We invite others to use our resources and talk about our passion (the hunt).
Yet we ask nothing in return. In fact we give up our own money and resources to support this place WE call home. That being the case there isn't much more he should be saying other then:
A. I don't like it here and good bye
or
B. Thank you Cooler Crew.
The invitational thread is for those who contribute.
We don't owe Matt anything, explaination or otherwise.
I'm not going to come here and try to defend - or blast - Matt for his diatribe yesterday. But I do believe that some of the points he was trying to make warrant some thought.Â
Most of us initially met each other on the Pioneer Press's water cooler. There was no secret thread there - anything that anyone posted was out there for all to see. Granted, the internet is a much more commonly used tool 7 years later.....I'm sure there weren't thousandsof lurkers out there trying to catch on to someone else's bright ideas. The worst we had to deal with were the antics of Joe Medallion.Â
Years later, there have been false posts, hacking, a couple mysterious characters posting that at leastIwasn't all that sure I wanted to meet, had they brought themselves out to the Rehash....probably some other unfavorable things that escape me at this moment.Â
I guess I don't think the invite thread is all that horrible of an idea, but I think we've probably grown as an "online community" to the point where it's too easy to miss inviting those that should be included. God knows if I hadn't been to the first rehash, I probably would never have been "in". I don't post a lot. Guess I'm usually waiting to think I really have something "worth-while" to contribute.....which if I ever stepped back to think about it is SO silly, because half of the posts on these boards are light-hearted, giggly, and nonsense. I guess somewhere between my teens and my 30's I lost my quick wit. By the time I think of something clever to say - the moment is gone.
The community IS here though. I may not be down at the press for every clue each year. I've only ever been down there a couple times. I don't like crowds :). It iseasier though when most of the crowd is people you know. Most of my close circle of friends has evolved through contact I've made through these discussion boards. And I know I can count on these people for anything within their power in my times of need - I would do the same in a heartbeat.
This is always such a hard time of year for me. The day of the rehash in 2001 is the day my Dad passed away. I was a little ticked at my mother that day cause she was concerned about him and didn't want to have to watch my kids too long. I didn't want to have to deal with keeping tabs on them at the park - at least not all afternoon. I was too shy then (still am really) to talk about all this on the open board....but there were those that were there for me.
In 2002, we were just getting ready to move into our new house when I lost what would have been our 4th child. I truly don't know how people who've gone through that before having kids ever have the courage to try again. So I guess I tend to be a little even *more* withdrawn, moody....I get to thinking about stuff just because of what time of year it is...and I get sad.
Don't know where I'm going with all this.....but to say that I'm not a villain just because I might not have posted here as much as someone else. I say something when I can contribute something. Usually during the hunt, I don't get to touch the computer till 8:00 or so on the weeknights. By the time I'm done slogging through, anything that *had* occured to me has already been touched on. Doesn't mean I'm *only* a meer lurker and that I'm only there to *steal* all the good ideas.....really, it doesn't.
I know that there are those among us who are doing what they can to find us an online home in the event that this one is no more. I understand that that's a very real possibility. I trust that they know what they're doing. All this techno-babble about packets and pings and what not is all way over my head. Just keep it alive and I'll be happy.
Sorry this got to be so long winded, but I really wanted to put it out there so that any lurkers that are out there and just reading all of these arguments know that at least MY experiences and what I have gained from the friendships formed through these boards by FAR outweigh any of the bad.Â
Come out to the rehash, if you're able to! Let us meet face to face! It really is a magical thing - this "crew" that we've become.
Amen Mom. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. If anything this drama forces us to see ourselves again in a fresh light, and to rethink how we practice the "open arms" creedo I was so quick to say we adhere to. Maybe we need to do more, or be more aware.
well said *mom*- there are things that have happened to us all year that I am not telling the whole world via the internet but dear friends in the invitational - the invitational is not only about the hunt. There is no way to keep discussions always on topic. When I bounce from thread to thread I forget constantly what thread I am in!I cannot be monitoring myself (even though some of you would love to see that)
to stay with the headline. I just follow the red flags and listen to my stern controller :)
I skimmed past 99% of these posts, cuz most of it may as well be in Swahili, for all I know. Maybe I'm too simplistic to know any solutions, but what if, for next year, we have 2 cooler threads. One in which the users must subscribe to and pay a fee to use, and one that is free, and open to all. I don't know what that would solve, but if the Stern Controller(s) set up the terms of use correctly, a user on the paid thread could be "locked out" for abuse, and harrassment. Is this something that could even be done???
What's more, I want to issue all of you here the assurance that Matt is Matt, and you all should know by now WHO, and HOW I am, and not to judge or abase me behind my back, nor to my face for the words written by my son. I don't think he thought in advance the uncomfortable position he put me in, if he had, I'm sure he would have kept his transgressions to himself. After all- if he feels capable of running a forum himself, I invite him to do so, but know this: I WILL be where ever the Cooler Crew is.
1. This year the park was identified pretty early. I think that changed the nature of the posts because instead of a lively debate of theory vs. counter theory trying to determine the right park, a lot of people were out digging instead. The clues for the most part were relatively clear, so there wasn't a whole lot to discuss. I think the nice weather also contributed to people being out in the park instead of at home on the computer.
2. I think on one point Matt contradicts himself a bit. On one hand he wants the Cooler to go back to how it was in the beginning. On the other hand he wants a way to minimize the chatter that has nothing to do with the hunt. And yet such chatter was part of how the Cooler used to be. What made it so interesting was that it wasn't just a place where people posted thoughts about the clues. It was a place where people practically lived for a week to 12 days. I remember people flirting, I remember people fighting, I remember people rallying together to overcome the childish behavior of others and discuss the hunt instead. I think it wasn't just the noodling, but the whole human drama of it all that kept people coming back.
3. I've noticed there seems to be a discrepancy these days about how one gets into the invitational thread. It seems to me the original concept was that anyone who posted at all without being obnoxious could get into the thread as a worthwhile contributor as opposed to being a lurker. But I've heard people lately talking about who should and shouldn't have been allowed into the thread as if it was something more exclusive than that.
4. Even if all worthwhile contributors should be in the invitational, inviting them isn't an easy process. The list of those already invited is pretty dang long. And then you'd have to make a list of all the people who posted in the regular thread and compare the two looking for discrepancies. That's kind of a cumbersome process that's not likely to happen in the heat of the hunt. So people are bound to be overlooked and it's nothing personal.
5. The more comfortable and pleasant the invitational thread becomes, the more unpleasant and useless the regular thread becomes. Look to the PP boards for an example. Why are things so bitchy over there? Because so many of the people that could have made a difference and made things better are over here instead. And then what happens when those same people retreat even further and don't bother reading anything other than the invitational anymore? The regular thread becomes more susceptible to barbarians as it were. And those worthwhile souls caught outside the walls are either less than impressed and go elsewhere, or they end up stuck outside the walls because no one on the inside is watching for them anymore. It's not quite at that point yet, but the trend is going there. And at that point, with our potential for growth waning, the community we've built will stagnate and decay.
6. I'm not too worried about the technical aspects. This may have it's flaws, but it works well enough. It's only if we have to find a new home that I think we need to really worry about all that. In the meantime, I don't think fixing technical problems or adding features will really dramtically affect the nature of the community.
7. I'm not all that worried about lurkers stealing ideas. I think it's something of a fallacy really. It seems to rest on the idea that the Cooler Crew is all in agreement on a single, correct theory. When does that ever happen? There are always a bunch of theories as to the exact interpretation of every clue. A lurker is not given "the answer". They are given dozens of possible answers, most of which are wrong. How many people had theories two years ago at Harriet that required secrecy and protection? When in reality posting your ideas would have only succeeded in bringing people to the wrong park. In fact, I know some people who specifically avoid reading these message boards because they feel they're more likely to be led astray by all the crazy theories than they are to be led in the right direction. Stealing other people's ideas is without a doubt a case of "buyer beware".
I guess that's all I have time for right now. Need to get to Pub Quiz at Brit's tonight.
I think Matt had some good points. He just has a very combative way of expressing himself that immediately puts others on the defensive. And when someone is on the defensive, they're not listening to you. So really, I don't know why he's so surprised that some people reacted the way they did.
But I will say I know Matt has been posting since 1998, even if it's not as frequent anymore. He's not someone new to the cooler and I suspect he's already on the invitational thread.
It's almost as if he had said, "You people are such wussies when you get sick, you act like your lives actually have some sort of minor impact on the universe when really it's quite inconsequential. This cure for cancer I'm giving you here really isn't going to make you any wiser." Would you take the cure for cancer from him? He means well in the end, he just doesn't seem to be good at showing it.
The problem with your analogy David is we aren't dieing of cancer, the technical problems with the cooler would at worst be characterized as a bad cold, but an annoying stuffy nose is more like it. My point being that we don't need what he is offering, and the way he has presented it makes you wonder if he has alterior motives.
As for a previous point you made about the invitational and the fact that most of the noodles in there are wrong, only a few are correct: I will say that it is much easier to decide who's ideas you think are the best than it is to come up with your own original ideas. The 2001 and 2002 finders/lurkers had no problem deciding who had the better ideas. The brainstorming nature of the cooler crew is what makes it so strong.
I don't think the invitational thread is as much about holding ideas from lurkers as it is about having a place to go to discuss the clues with intelligent adults. Yeah, some people worry about lurkers getting their noodles, but when it comes down to it even if you're in the right park and the right location it's still a shot in the dark. It's not fair to say we're the only ones who deserve to be in the right place and the right park because we think we're smarter. Those lurkers who get info from this board could just as easily follow the crowds to the right park and the right spot, start digging and get lucky. That's the damn nature of this hunt.
Like I said before, this group has evolved. THAT's the nature of THIS group. I don't see the point in going backward in evolution. There's still the open thread and the PP boards. If your argument is that you prefer a more open forum like the old days (and I think it's totally fine if one prefers that) then there is a place for you to go. But you can't go there and then complain that others aren't there or haven't followed you. You can't complain because people you think are smart, or who you just want to talk with aren't there. If you want to chat with specific people then go where they are. And if you can't get there because you don't follow the rules they happen to prefer to live by, then shut up or grow up.
The thing WE have to do perhaps, that which I think is a responsibility of OURS if we don't want this commuinity to grow stagnant and decay as Allison said, is we have to do a better job of reading the open threads, partaking of them and inviting others in. Some of us won't do that, which I understand, I tend to be one of them. But I do think it is our responsibility to do what we can to partake in the open forums and threads. If we don't we're then sure to miss out on meeting some really great people. And meeting really great people who share the same love and thrill of the medallion hunt is what this whole thing is all about.
KT- I just wanted to quick address your last post...
I understand you feel in a weird place about this, and perhaps not at all comfortable. But PLEASE know that most of us, I daresay all of us, don't connect you in any way at all to Matt's shinanigans. We know you're a great person and are very loyal to the crew. I hope you are able to feel completely comfortable with all of us.
if and when we ever fully move off of pf, i'm suggesting a karma like system. as a poster develops karma through good contributions, the system automatically kicks in and adds access to the invite list. less hands on for the forum managers, less risk of someone falling through the cracks, better group of people, and it'll keep the group from getting stagnant. not sure exactly how such a karma system would work, but its a decent idea from a usability standpoint.
basically. i'm thinking more like the model that slashdot uses. every so often, people get moderator points, and they can moderate other users' posts up or down. matt eluded to this in one of his earlier posts. do i think we should have a system set up where a post can get moderated to oblivion? no. i don't even think we should give the ability to moderate a post down. just something so that once enough users have moderated a given user up, they get in, but which could be overridden by administrative control. as for who gets these moderator points? slashdot hands them out at random to people who read the articles. we could hand them out to people after every so many posts of theirs.
I do want to chime in on this discussion, but haven't completely gathered my thoughts. However, I do know that quantity of posts is not the way I would "rate" people.
I wanted to share a thought or two. What's been shared throughout this thread makes a lot of sense. Everyone has a different ways of expressing their opinions (with varying degrees of abrasiveness). As for the technical matters, I have no opinion. Band width, Webx! That's for someone else to decide.
As a past lurker and someone who had never frequented a chat board before becoming totally obsessed with the hunt, I can say that what drew me out of the shadows to partake in the discussion was the spirit of inclusiveness (how's that for a run-on sentence). I suspect for every one lurker out there sponging off the deciphers that there are ten more just like me, obsessed with the hunt and deep down want to be part of a community of equally fanatical personalities.
If we want this community to remain open, there has to be a test environment (that's the extent of my technical mumbo-jumbo) to draw out the lurkers who want to take part in constructive clue discussions. The "production environment" (here I go again with the technical talk) can continue to be the invitational thread, a safe place to retain the intellectual property of the coolercrew.
So it would seem that if you want to keep the open community and keep the private message board, than the people's forum set-up is the best arrangement. I recognize there are several logistical problems, most of all, keeping tabs on those in the public forum who are passionate about the hunt and not just wise@#$eslooking to cause trouble. It's not a perfect system, nothing in this world is. But as stallion so elloquently stated, it's evolving.Â
I think the first step is to decide for sure what we want. Once we know that, we can figure out the best way to get it, if we don't already have it (or parts of it). At the moment though I don't think there is a clear vision of what we want. For example, is the primary goal of something like the invitational thread going to be to control riff raff or to control ideas?
As for a previous point you made about the invitational and the fact that most of the noodles in there are wrong, only a few are correct: I will say that it is much easier to decide who's ideas you think are the best than it is to come up with your own original ideas. The 2001 and 2002 finders/lurkers had no problem deciding who had the better ideas. The brainstorming nature of the cooler crew is what makes it so strong.
This is true, but it's what I consider a modern day hunting skill. People on the cooler may come up with good ideas that you wouldn't have thought of on your own, but it's also true they'll come up with wrong ideas you never would have thought of either, and the wrong ideas can sound pretty convincing at times.
The 2002 finders read that I thought it was at Merriam. They read other theories too. They were out that day to just look at parks and stopped at Merriam. It's not their fault that they literally stumbled on it while they were there. And how many other people read all the same posts the finders did and didn't go to Merriam that day? How many Cooler Crew people didn't go to Merriam? Yes, it can be helpful, but I still think it's far from being a giveaway.
I started out in the Cooler in 98. I don't think I posted much if at all. It was the first year I ever really got involved in the hunt at all and I was still kind of feeling my way around. I mostly lurked and read what other people wrote about the line of double division and what the yellow stone and the sugary loaf were. I never would have known those things. So basically I was leeching off them. But at the same time, it was helping me to understand how all this worked. And having a better idea of what the clues meant and where to go drew me into the hunt far more than if I had been left alone scatching my head, unsure of where to go or what to do. I think we can serve that same role for others, showing them how it's done and bringing them along the way so they can discover the fun of it all also.
Finally, if the option is to choose between having someone find it who got help from something you said, or having someone find it with no connection to you whatsoever, I'd rather have it be someone that I helped.
The hunt to not-hunt ratio is silly.
so you want to be a thread nanny, and force threads to stay on subject? keep on dreaming, cuz thats a really good way to turn people away from the site.
 i don't want to sound like i'm being a jerk towards you either, but the way you started this whole thing was way way way way way out of line and is far from conducive to get anyone to take you seriously, and i don't want to burn any bridges with you, given the nature and opportunity of the technical matter here. at the same time, i kind of feel like the bridge was half-burned to start with from your end of things given how the conversation started.
frankly, were it not for the fact that kt is your mother, this discussion would have been over a long time ago.
[Edited by on Jan 31, 2005 at 04:50pm.]
Green Team - I have done the egram. If he's around, it shouldn't take long.
^^ whoops, bad paste.
I've spent the better part of an afternoon making my abrasive suggestions known, and I'm willing to react to any reactions it provoked. I told green in person "don't worry about me, I'm just a troll :)" and I was met with a smile. It's the truth, and really you can pummel my offer into the ground as I retire to finish the work I should have been doing. My aim was as it always is high, and the weathering of the discussions proves once more to be forgotten in no time at all. :)
Okay, thanks TerryV! I was feeling a bit left out there for a while. Now I feel better! ;-)
anyway, over and out. I'll see you all outdoors.
ares- no use threatening the red cross, no use threatening me. E-mail MAnderson@iddx.net (since I can't figure out how to change the profile here) if you ever want to execute this offer, for personal or community use. Fast webhosting is a valued commodity.
Anyone else is invited to mail me, for whatever reason, as well. Sign me up for free watch offers or refi's.
/m
PS: I'm not concerned about junkmail. Leave my posts alone, please.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Jan 31, 2005 at 05:34pm.]
Alright look kiddies.. if ya can't play nice... I'm just gonna have to be forced to ground you from the medallion hunt...
now damn it DON'T MAKE ME PULL THIS CAR OVER!!
Oops... heh sorry... :)
Matt, I have never hunted the medallion, but have been accepted by these good people as if I was the best there is. If you have not seen the things they are doing for my nephew Zephyrus who is in Iraq, then you really should look into it. It is just amazing. These are not snobby people. They are the best I have ever met on the internet and at times I feel closer to them than many of my friends in the real world.
If this place does change, I hope you keep it similar to the WebX look and feel. I like that it is in chronological order and broken down into threads based on subject matter. I am talking about the "In the News" threads, the "Medallion Hunt" threads, etc. I also enjoy being able to post pictures from time to time.
As for controlling the obnoxious ones that occasionally show up here with the intent of disrupting things, I think that you need a way to ban their IP Address as just banning a name does nothing but force them to create a new name.
Just my humble opinions on the subjects raised here.
much as i'd like to be able to ban by ip address, its not always possible, especially since aol users all end up coming from the same ip address, and two users that share the same isp could at different times have a banned ip address.
The threat was "if you weren't mom's son, this conversation.." blahh blah, blah. A useless remark to a useless conversation.
Now, I'm done with this, since it's gotten to the point where people think I'm badgering people, thinking them snobs, and all other manner of garbage. My efforts would much more easily be classified as grotesque then given due process.
Again, that's normal human behavior. It's hard to consider for a moment that you could be participating in a less than healthy situation without any feelings of wrongdoing. It's hard, but it's reality. It's life.. Once upon a time it was considered perfectly fine to enslave another human being, and once upon a time it was considered perfectly fine to ruin the psychological minds of children to improve personal fortune by marrying them to the most fiscally compatible families.
ok, no more drama. I'm out, seriously. My offerings will not expire and like always, I hold no harsh feelings regardless of how people have treated me. This is the Internet, and one who dances with it so frequently is quite used to the scuffles one endures when the cages are rattled.
If I might get one request from you, the home viewer, please understand that I wouldn't bother with speaking up unless I gave a shit about this place.
If you think I have nothing better to do than to pester people on an Internet forum, stop thinking; you're wrong.
<3
<-- click me
/m
PS: Grandpa Dan- I understand and embrace your warm feelings. In a less violent response, I know what you mean and I agree. It's a tough job to look out for those in the military, and it's with my respects they carry out their jobs. The comedy of Zeph is fantastic. I hope he finds the medallion.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Feb 1, 2005 at 01:23am.]
Dude.... so whats your beef? Half of the stuff, seems to be bitching about there being an Invite thread, and the other half seems to be about slow websites....
Â
ltc- ? oh, heh. :) I am not a well trained coolerhead. I reckon they come often in private threads, no?
How long have you been part of the cooler crew?
I'm pretty sure Ma Planet was open to anyone.
I would be lost w/o the Invitational. There I can go to get away from Matt - and his e-grams (which I still have) - Jake, and their ilk.
I go to the Invitational for peace and quiet, noodling, fun.
I hate the crap Matt, Jake, those kind bring. I just HATE it. But, they're entitled to it. Everyone's entitled to be a horse's ass iffin' they wanna be. So, be one.
But leave me my place to go for 'niceness.'Â I don't want to have to deal with jerks just because they've the right to be that way.Â
I've the right not to have to suffer it.
I don't worry so much about lurkers as the better noodlers do. I'm not good at noodling and tend to remain in one park (BC!). So the lurker issue's not as important to me as having a safe haven to go to.
Thank you for listening.
The creation of the invitational thread has forced people that used to lurk and steal our ideas to actually come up and talk to us in the park and not be strangers anymore. I think it was pretty obvious to anyone that knows the core cooler crew members that something has been wrong the last few years because we weren't really posting in the regular thread that much.
People want to hear what we have to say because quite frankly, someone in our group always gets it right and deciding who's theory is right is easier than making your own theory.
When lurkers found the medallion 2 years in a row, they lost all their ability to lurk good ideas and were sent to their own room to lurk jake and his buddies and what time they are going to buggs.
Then there's the "get your butt of the computer and get to the park" argument.
Bottom line is that this is as open a forum as a private site will be. The TwinCities.com site is still there. If you have a problem here, you are welcome to leave.
Too many people dedicate their time, money and energy ALL YEAR ROUND to provide you with this site. To come in and instigate this sort of bullshit during the ninth and tenth clue of the hunt tells me that the issue is not ours. It also tells me that your proposed intentions are not sincere. Actions speak louder than words.
With that said I am going to take a short nap after days and exhausting hours of actually hunting and digging for the medallion.
Â
I've been trying to come up with a response to this, but I don't really have the time to do it justice. Matt does have a point. He may not be the best messenger for the message. I'd be willing to bet this isn't he only message board Matt frequents, and his style is quite common on most Internet boards that discuss politics, or even more charged topics like whether Janeway or Picard was the better Starfleet Officer.
Inclusiveness is an important value. It also brings some negatives. As much as I appreciate all THX does around here, he really hasn't got the time to moderate a series of flame wars (see the PP board). And, there is the issue of intellectual property--I do think there is an etiquette where if you share an idea, others should share as well.Â
If there are hurt feelings, that is very regrettable. If someone wants to have a "round table" about how things will appear in the future, I'd be happy to be a part of it, although I have zero technical skills.
Thanks, Matt, for you post. And, I'd also like to thank THX, for not only allowing it to stand, but for providing this thread. The fact that Matt's post was not instantly zapped does say something.
Â
Â
I was just thinking that there'll be a year that we all think it's in Como, and clue 10, there's a giant swerve and we all end up at battle creek, with Green standing in the hockey rink in the middle of all those lights going "I told you! I told you!"
I think that the Invitational thread is great. I think that the community and friendships that people form through the cooler crew are very special. When you have a group of people that get to know eachother and make friends there comes a sense of familiarity. It is only natural that since we have been spending so much time together, we have more to say to eachother than topics isolated to noodles. I know that it does take more time to slog through posts that are more along the lines of banter and conversation to get to the clues, but I think that is a good thing. People have made friends through this hunt that they ordinarily wouldn't have. Perhaps within the invitational thread there should be a thread for noodles and a thread for chit-chat. I don't know anything about computers and cannot begin to understand how much work that THX puts in here, but I think that we should all be grateful for this forum because of all the wonderful things that have come out of it. I am just an ordinary latex Importer/Exporter, but I did want to throw in my two cents.
:-)
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Feb 1, 2005 at 10:05am.]
One thing that I think we all have to realize is that this group is growing up and evolving, it has been doing so at a consistant rate since 1998. People started meeting more and more in person, becoming closer friends, meeting more and more at the parks, down at the PP, down at GW, the Lobster, etc. It's just not the same group and environment it was six, seven years ago, or two years ago for that matter. The people who posted here on a regular basis a few years ago are much more busy hanging out with each other now and have less time to write each other on PF. There's even less need now for PF I'd daresay because we've found each other and can say what we think face to face rather than via these threads. (not that I'd like to go without this place)
What started out as a public, open forum in which to discuss the clues has evolved to something different. Bitching about whether or not there is an "invitational" thread amounts to bitching because you aren't part of a particular group of friends. I remember doing that when I was in jr. high.
What hasn't changed is that if you have a love for the hunt, if you love to noodle clues and talk with other people who share your same enthusiasm about the clues, and if you find your way to PF, eventually you'll be embraced and loved by the Cooler Crew. If you doubt that just ask OTS. Ask anyone of us. This group has always and will always have open arms. But we've had to learn to defend ourselves as well, and for that no one should apologize.
There's no easy solution. It's just the way it has to be in order for this group to keep sane and have a place they love. If you don't like it, to f&%ing bad I guess. If you think it should run on other software or hardware, to F%#$ing bad I guess. Go start your own site if you think your more clever and have a better way. If your right then you can be sure most of us will find our way over to it. That's evolution.
Well put, MedallionStallion. If someone bothers to read the THX 1138 intros to each of these threads, they'd see that there's no malice in the creation of "invitation only" areas. People are told to come on in and have a seat at every opportunity.
I think it's just the nature of stating up front "this is invitation only" that rubs some people the wrong way. I think if that thread were renamed next year it would maybe make the issue go away. Something like "Cooler Crew Medallion Gossip" or something along those lines. The old "Shoot the Breeze with the Cooler Crew" was pretty close.
Then if people click to get into that area, they can be greeted with a THX 1138 intro that says "Welcome! This is invitation only but you're invited if you think you might want to talk to us! But be forewarned, we're looking for active participants, not lurkers. Thanks for your interest."
See, that's both nice and to the point without ever having to say "invitation only" in a space for all to see.
You'll never make everyone happy, but I think 95% of us are satisfied, and that's pretty good. This area still has the official PP board beat just because of the jumble of junk topics that sprout up over there. There's also more mean-spiritedness in that realm. Some PP threads are good, but there's a lot of blegh to wade through. Much less so here. And I like the familiarity personally. I feel like when I get the opportunity to meet some of you folks down the line, it'll be like you already know me. And that's a good thing.
Stal, how in the world are you so articulate after digging up a park with us for the last five days???
Your simply amazing in my book!
::yawn_stretch:: Yeah, what he said!
It appears to me that you do think of them as snobs and such.
Then you would understand that these folks are not "segregating loyalist" who think of themselves as "royal" and this place has not become "private and exclusive".
Look, I think that you mean well, but you come across just the opposite and that is what is getting people so upset here.
For the record, if you don't have access to the "Invitational", you don't even know it's there.
Well I figure now that the hunt is over Matt and his bitterness will fade away till next year.
His points aren't invalid.
He could have been a bit more subtle, but I'm not one to talk.
:-)
I don't have any issues with him raising the questions. My problem comes in to where he tries to slimline the conversation to specific things. Then when others bring up valid issues concerning the home we have here and the people who share every moment of their lives he tries to discount that.
The Cooler Crew is in fact an online community. We invite others to use our resources and talk about our passion (the hunt).
Yet we ask nothing in return. In fact we give up our own money and resources to support this place WE call home. That being the case there isn't much more he should be saying other then:
A. I don't like it here and good bye
or
B. Thank you Cooler Crew.
The invitational thread is for those who contribute.
We don't owe Matt anything, explaination or otherwise.
Thats just me :)
[Edited by on Feb 1, 2005 at 03:16pm.]
well said, search. well said.
I'm not going to come here and try to defend - or blast - Matt for his diatribe yesterday. But I do believe that some of the points he was trying to make warrant some thought.Â
Most of us initially met each other on the Pioneer Press's water cooler. There was no secret thread there - anything that anyone posted was out there for all to see. Granted, the internet is a much more commonly used tool 7 years later.....I'm sure there weren't thousandsof lurkers out there trying to catch on to someone else's bright ideas. The worst we had to deal with were the antics of Joe Medallion.Â
Years later, there have been false posts, hacking, a couple mysterious characters posting that at leastIwasn't all that sure I wanted to meet, had they brought themselves out to the Rehash....probably some other unfavorable things that escape me at this moment.Â
I guess I don't think the invite thread is all that horrible of an idea, but I think we've probably grown as an "online community" to the point where it's too easy to miss inviting those that should be included. God knows if I hadn't been to the first rehash, I probably would never have been "in". I don't post a lot. Guess I'm usually waiting to think I really have something "worth-while" to contribute.....which if I ever stepped back to think about it is SO silly, because half of the posts on these boards are light-hearted, giggly, and nonsense. I guess somewhere between my teens and my 30's I lost my quick wit. By the time I think of something clever to say - the moment is gone.
The community IS here though. I may not be down at the press for every clue each year. I've only ever been down there a couple times. I don't like crowds :). It iseasier though when most of the crowd is people you know. Most of my close circle of friends has evolved through contact I've made through these discussion boards. And I know I can count on these people for anything within their power in my times of need - I would do the same in a heartbeat.
This is always such a hard time of year for me. The day of the rehash in 2001 is the day my Dad passed away. I was a little ticked at my mother that day cause she was concerned about him and didn't want to have to watch my kids too long. I didn't want to have to deal with keeping tabs on them at the park - at least not all afternoon. I was too shy then (still am really) to talk about all this on the open board....but there were those that were there for me.
In 2002, we were just getting ready to move into our new house when I lost what would have been our 4th child. I truly don't know how people who've gone through that before having kids ever have the courage to try again. So I guess I tend to be a little even *more* withdrawn, moody....I get to thinking about stuff just because of what time of year it is...and I get sad.
Don't know where I'm going with all this.....but to say that I'm not a villain just because I might not have posted here as much as someone else. I say something when I can contribute something. Usually during the hunt, I don't get to touch the computer till 8:00 or so on the weeknights. By the time I'm done slogging through, anything that *had* occured to me has already been touched on. Doesn't mean I'm *only* a meer lurker and that I'm only there to *steal* all the good ideas.....really, it doesn't.
I know that there are those among us who are doing what they can to find us an online home in the event that this one is no more. I understand that that's a very real possibility. I trust that they know what they're doing. All this techno-babble about packets and pings and what not is all way over my head. Just keep it alive and I'll be happy.
Sorry this got to be so long winded, but I really wanted to put it out there so that any lurkers that are out there and just reading all of these arguments know that at least MY experiences and what I have gained from the friendships formed through these boards by FAR outweigh any of the bad.Â
Come out to the rehash, if you're able to! Let us meet face to face! It really is a magical thing - this "crew" that we've become.
Awwww, Mom. You should post more often. You write well and it makes sense and sounds good and gets me in the heart.
I'm so glad you're here, you're you and this brought us together. You're neat.
Amen Mom. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. If anything this drama forces us to see ourselves again in a fresh light, and to rethink how we practice the "open arms" creedo I was so quick to say we adhere to. Maybe we need to do more, or be more aware.
GreenTeam- please do come to the re-hash bash
also GO SEE THE NO TIME FOR COLD FEET
(this invite is for everyone)
I couldnt have BETTER friends!
well said *mom*- there are things that have happened to us all year that I am not telling the whole world via the internet but dear friends in the invitational - the invitational is not only about the hunt. There is no way to keep discussions always on topic. When I bounce from thread to thread I forget constantly what thread I am in!I cannot be monitoring myself
(even though some of you would love to see that)
to stay with the headline. I just follow the red flags and listen to my stern controller :)
[Edited by on Feb 2, 2005 at 01:17pm.]
I skimmed past 99% of these posts, cuz most of it may as well be in Swahili, for all I know.
Maybe I'm too simplistic to know any solutions, but what if, for next year, we have 2 cooler threads. One in which the users must subscribe to and pay a fee to use, and one that is free, and open to all. I don't know what that would solve, but if the Stern Controller(s) set up the terms of use correctly, a user on the paid thread could be "locked out" for abuse, and harrassment. Is this something that could even be done???
What's more, I want to issue all of you here the assurance that Matt is Matt, and you all should know by now WHO, and HOW I am, and not to judge or abase me behind my back, nor to my face for the words written by my son.
I don't think he thought in advance the uncomfortable position he put me in, if he had, I'm sure he would have kept his transgressions to himself.
After all- if he feels capable of running a forum himself, I invite him to do so, but know this: I WILL be where ever the Cooler Crew is.
[Edited by on Feb 2, 2005 at 02:46pm.]
K T.. Never have had nor will I ever have anthing bad to say about you :)
I had a few points I wanted to add.
1. This year the park was identified pretty early. I think that changed the nature of the posts because instead of a lively debate of theory vs. counter theory trying to determine the right park, a lot of people were out digging instead. The clues for the most part were relatively clear, so there wasn't a whole lot to discuss. I think the nice weather also contributed to people being out in the park instead of at home on the computer.
2. I think on one point Matt contradicts himself a bit. On one hand he wants the Cooler to go back to how it was in the beginning. On the other hand he wants a way to minimize the chatter that has nothing to do with the hunt. And yet such chatter was part of how the Cooler used to be. What made it so interesting was that it wasn't just a place where people posted thoughts about the clues. It was a place where people practically lived for a week to 12 days. I remember people flirting, I remember people fighting, I remember people rallying together to overcome the childish behavior of others and discuss the hunt instead. I think it wasn't just the noodling, but the whole human drama of it all that kept people coming back.
3. I've noticed there seems to be a discrepancy these days about how one gets into the invitational thread. It seems to me the original concept was that anyone who posted at all without being obnoxious could get into the thread as a worthwhile contributor as opposed to being a lurker. But I've heard people lately talking about who should and shouldn't have been allowed into the thread as if it was something more exclusive than that.
4. Even if all worthwhile contributors should be in the invitational, inviting them isn't an easy process. The list of those already invited is pretty dang long. And then you'd have to make a list of all the people who posted in the regular thread and compare the two looking for discrepancies. That's kind of a cumbersome process that's not likely to happen in the heat of the hunt. So people are bound to be overlooked and it's nothing personal.
5. The more comfortable and pleasant the invitational thread becomes, the more unpleasant and useless the regular thread becomes. Look to the PP boards for an example. Why are things so bitchy over there? Because so many of the people that could have made a difference and made things better are over here instead. And then what happens when those same people retreat even further and don't bother reading anything other than the invitational anymore? The regular thread becomes more susceptible to barbarians as it were. And those worthwhile souls caught outside the walls are either less than impressed and go elsewhere, or they end up stuck outside the walls because no one on the inside is watching for them anymore. It's not quite at that point yet, but the trend is going there. And at that point, with our potential for growth waning, the community we've built will stagnate and decay.
6. I'm not too worried about the technical aspects. This may have it's flaws, but it works well enough. It's only if we have to find a new home that I think we need to really worry about all that. In the meantime, I don't think fixing technical problems or adding features will really dramtically affect the nature of the community.
7. I'm not all that worried about lurkers stealing ideas. I think it's something of a fallacy really. It seems to rest on the idea that the Cooler Crew is all in agreement on a single, correct theory. When does that ever happen? There are always a bunch of theories as to the exact interpretation of every clue. A lurker is not given "the answer". They are given dozens of possible answers, most of which are wrong. How many people had theories two years ago at Harriet that required secrecy and protection? When in reality posting your ideas would have only succeeded in bringing people to the wrong park. In fact, I know some people who specifically avoid reading these message boards because they feel they're more likely to be led astray by all the crazy theories than they are to be led in the right direction. Stealing other people's ideas is without a doubt a case of "buyer beware".
I guess that's all I have time for right now. Need to get to Pub Quiz at Brit's tonight.
I think Matt had some good points. He just has a very combative way of expressing himself that immediately puts others on the defensive. And when someone is on the defensive, they're not listening to you. So really, I don't know why he's so surprised that some people reacted the way they did.
But I will say I know Matt has been posting since 1998, even if it's not as frequent anymore. He's not someone new to the cooler and I suspect he's already on the invitational thread.
It's almost as if he had said, "You people are such wussies when you get sick, you act like your lives actually have some sort of minor impact on the universe when really it's quite inconsequential. This cure for cancer I'm giving you here really isn't going to make you any wiser." Would you take the cure for cancer from him? He means well in the end, he just doesn't seem to be good at showing it.
The problem with your analogy David is we aren't dieing of cancer, the technical problems with the cooler would at worst be characterized as a bad cold, but an annoying stuffy nose is more like it. My point being that we don't need what he is offering, and the way he has presented it makes you wonder if he has alterior motives.
As for a previous point you made about the invitational and the fact that most of the noodles in there are wrong, only a few are correct: I will say that it is much easier to decide who's ideas you think are the best than it is to come up with your own original ideas. The 2001 and 2002 finders/lurkers had no problem deciding who had the better ideas. The brainstorming nature of the cooler crew is what makes it so strong.
I don't think the invitational thread is as much about holding ideas from lurkers as it is about having a place to go to discuss the clues with intelligent adults. Yeah, some people worry about lurkers getting their noodles, but when it comes down to it even if you're in the right park and the right location it's still a shot in the dark. It's not fair to say we're the only ones who deserve to be in the right place and the right park because we think we're smarter. Those lurkers who get info from this board could just as easily follow the crowds to the right park and the right spot, start digging and get lucky. That's the damn nature of this hunt.
Like I said before, this group has evolved. THAT's the nature of THIS group. I don't see the point in going backward in evolution. There's still the open thread and the PP boards. If your argument is that you prefer a more open forum like the old days (and I think it's totally fine if one prefers that) then there is a place for you to go. But you can't go there and then complain that others aren't there or haven't followed you. You can't complain because people you think are smart, or who you just want to talk with aren't there. If you want to chat with specific people then go where they are. And if you can't get there because you don't follow the rules they happen to prefer to live by, then shut up or grow up.
The thing WE have to do perhaps, that which I think is a responsibility of OURS if we don't want this commuinity to grow stagnant and decay as Allison said, is we have to do a better job of reading the open threads, partaking of them and inviting others in. Some of us won't do that, which I understand, I tend to be one of them. But I do think it is our responsibility to do what we can to partake in the open forums and threads. If we don't we're then sure to miss out on meeting some really great people. And meeting really great people who share the same love and thrill of the medallion hunt is what this whole thing is all about.
KT- I just wanted to quick address your last post...
I understand you feel in a weird place about this, and perhaps not at all comfortable. But PLEASE know that most of us, I daresay all of us, don't connect you in any way at all to Matt's shinanigans. We know you're a great person and are very loyal to the crew. I hope you are able to feel completely comfortable with all of us.
if and when we ever fully move off of pf, i'm suggesting a karma like system. as a poster develops karma through good contributions, the system automatically kicks in and adds access to the invite list. less hands on for the forum managers, less risk of someone falling through the cracks, better group of people, and it'll keep the group from getting stagnant. not sure exactly how such a karma system would work, but its a decent idea from a usability standpoint.
Rate a user type system?
oh crap I'd never get anywhere then...
basically. i'm thinking more like the model that slashdot uses. every so often, people get moderator points, and they can moderate other users' posts up or down. matt eluded to this in one of his earlier posts. do i think we should have a system set up where a post can get moderated to oblivion? no. i don't even think we should give the ability to moderate a post down. just something so that once enough users have moderated a given user up, they get in, but which could be overridden by administrative control. as for who gets these moderator points? slashdot hands them out at random to people who read the articles. we could hand them out to people after every so many posts of theirs.
I do want to chime in on this discussion, but haven't completely gathered my thoughts. However, I do know that quantity of posts is not the way I would "rate" people.
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[Edited by on Feb 2, 2005 at 10:59pm.]
I wanted to share a thought or two. What's been shared throughout this thread makes a lot of sense. Everyone has a different ways of expressing their opinions (with varying degrees of abrasiveness). As for the technical matters, I have no opinion. Band width, Webx! That's for someone else to decide.
As a past lurker and someone who had never frequented a chat board before becoming totally obsessed with the hunt, I can say that what drew me out of the shadows to partake in the discussion was the spirit of inclusiveness (how's that for a run-on sentence). I suspect for every one lurker out there sponging off the deciphers that there are ten more just like me, obsessed with the hunt and deep down want to be part of a community of equally fanatical personalities.
If we want this community to remain open, there has to be a test environment (that's the extent of my technical mumbo-jumbo) to draw out the lurkers who want to take part in constructive clue discussions. The "production environment" (here I go again with the technical talk) can continue to be the invitational thread, a safe place to retain the intellectual property of the coolercrew.
So it would seem that if you want to keep the open community and keep the private message board, than the people's forum set-up is the best arrangement. I recognize there are several logistical problems, most of all, keeping tabs on those in the public forum who are passionate about the hunt and not just wise@#$eslooking to cause trouble. It's not a perfect system, nothing in this world is. But as stallion so elloquently stated, it's evolving.Â
I'm tired.
I think the first step is to decide for sure what we want. Once we know that, we can figure out the best way to get it, if we don't already have it (or parts of it). At the moment though I don't think there is a clear vision of what we want. For example, is the primary goal of something like the invitational thread going to be to control riff raff or to control ideas?
As for a previous point you made about the invitational and the fact that most of the noodles in there are wrong, only a few are correct: I will say that it is much easier to decide who's ideas you think are the best than it is to come up with your own original ideas. The 2001 and 2002 finders/lurkers had no problem deciding who had the better ideas. The brainstorming nature of the cooler crew is what makes it so strong.
This is true, but it's what I consider a modern day hunting skill. People on the cooler may come up with good ideas that you wouldn't have thought of on your own, but it's also true they'll come up with wrong ideas you never would have thought of either, and the wrong ideas can sound pretty convincing at times.
The 2002 finders read that I thought it was at Merriam. They read other theories too. They were out that day to just look at parks and stopped at Merriam. It's not their fault that they literally stumbled on it while they were there. And how many other people read all the same posts the finders did and didn't go to Merriam that day? How many Cooler Crew people didn't go to Merriam? Yes, it can be helpful, but I still think it's far from being a giveaway.
I started out in the Cooler in 98. I don't think I posted much if at all. It was the first year I ever really got involved in the hunt at all and I was still kind of feeling my way around. I mostly lurked and read what other people wrote about the line of double division and what the yellow stone and the sugary loaf were. I never would have known those things. So basically I was leeching off them. But at the same time, it was helping me to understand how all this worked. And having a better idea of what the clues meant and where to go drew me into the hunt far more than if I had been left alone scatching my head, unsure of where to go or what to do. I think we can serve that same role for others, showing them how it's done and bringing them along the way so they can discover the fun of it all also.
Finally, if the option is to choose between having someone find it who got help from something you said, or having someone find it with no connection to you whatsoever, I'd rather have it be someone that I helped.
[Edited by on Feb 2, 2005 at 11:08pm.]