at the same time, it was helping me to understand how all this worked. And having a better idea of what the clues meant and where to go drew me into the hunt far more than if I had been left alone scatching my head, unsure of where to go or what to do.
Similar to an in-person community or a neighborhood, it is inevitable that online communities will develop their own values, mores, and behaviors. The question before us, is how do we respond to unknown person(s) who challenge them. If a known, regular poster had proposed trying to find a way to be more open and welcoming, my guess is that our group would listen intently. However, since the message came from a relatively unknown person, in a less than delicate way, our response is to generally shut that person out. Is there anything wrong with this? I believe our response is natural and okay. This scenario is similar to not welcoming your brand new neighbor or older but unknown neighbor shouting down your new flower bed, while listening carefully to your long-term or close neighbor suggesting different plants.
 As a group, we can take two paths: a) Understand that most of us are together only two weeks per year. We do the best we can, in the time we have. We invite those from the non-invitational to the invitational in a willy-nilly fashion. We are okay with this system. Or, b) Have a discussion about what we want to be and how we want to be it (mission statement, goals, etc.). Are we okay being an informal collection of hunters? Do we want to be more organized? Do we want to, for example, define what it means to be a cooler crew member, march in the parade, buy logoed items, become a non-profit entity, charge membership dues, select members in an organized way, accept all members who pay to be a part of the group, etc?
 My guess is the first scenario works best for most people. It takes effort, energy, and dedication to be more organized. And, since many people have already left the board for the year, I am not sure how we would even have the discussion or come to consensus on most topics. That being said, if we were more organized, someone from this group might actually find the medallion.
 For me personally, both scenarios work. Sometimes I get frustrated at the lack of organization, but in the end, everything seems to work out. I do wish discussion in the invitational and non-invitational were more on topic. I hunted a lot this year, and coming home to discussions of everything but the hunt was a pain in the ass. I thought the Shoot the Breeze thread was for the off-topic chatting. On the other hand, I understand that traditionally we talk about everything in every thread and I am not going to change that.
The Medallionators seems to noodle togather great at Bugg's every night. Just a suggestion ... find a bar and noodle there. Its kind of hard for thousands of lurkers to hide out at the bar. Plus, more Beer!
thanks for always making me laugh Nick-you sure have a different perspective in the Cooler thats forsure -I can twist it to: "sit on JOES lap, without my top, holding his wires"
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Feb 4, 2005 at 08:00am.]
actually, i agree with that. and even if we brought in all our laptops, not every place has wi-fi internet access. many do. but a lot still don't. we need to get together a project over the summer as a crew to document free access. i know its there in mears park, and o'gara's. lets add to the list!
Is Matt coming to the RHB? I sure hope so. I haven't had anyone call me a horse's ass in quite some time. I'm looking forward to meeting him and giving him a stern discussion on etiquette.
So there is a place that you go that I cant go? Well, this peoplesforum place has so much to look at already, I am probly not missing much. It will take me a lifetime just to read everything already here, so I guess I'll get over it.
Oh so THAT's how it works Geoff...SURE...we'll let ya into the group no problem! Just look like that and don't dig with an windshield scrapper, that's all we ask. ;)
Loved your post Lisa. It really comes down to how bad do we want it and how much are we willing to give to get it. AND NOW I'M CLOSING THE DOOR TO THAT STATEMENT SO NO ONE CAN WALK THROUGH IT. hahaha
I found this group of people a few years ago when it was at PP. I thought it was a great place and the people who were talking in there seemed nice and inviting to the different ideas that were being shared. Â
I suppose you could consider me a “lurker”.  I have only posted a few times. I don’t know how all of the people who post here can slog through the different posts, which I can tell sometimes they don’t, post their ideas, work, have family lives and go out and hunt for the medallion! Â
One of the reasons that I don’t post is because this moves too fast for me at the hunt time.  All I have time for is to check in, slog a little and see what others are thinking.  If I have an idea or a thought it is usually shared already and I don’t see the need for repeating what someone else has said. I have never been to any other chat rooms or anything like that...so I guess I have nothing to compare it to. I spent the 1styear just trying to figure out the lingo and getting a feel for the place. Â
I don’t know why “lurkers” have gotten such a bad rap.  From what I’ve seen, when the hunt is on, the people who know where it is or have a pretty good idea where it is are not in here posting. They are out in the park actively looking for it. So why do you think that the lurkers are stealing your ideas? Besides, even if we do figure it out online, a person still has to go out to the park and actually find it! Â
I don’t live in St. Paul anymore and I don’t have the opportunity to be as active as I would like to be in the hunt. This was a great place to come to see how the hunt was going and get the feel for the hunt, even if I wasn’t actively participating in getting out in the cold and having the fun of the hunt.
Â
I found out about there being an “invitational only” site that was going on by slogging through some posts.  Why? I feel a little left out and discriminated against because I am basically a “lurker”. I was drawn to this place because of the ideas & thoughts that were being shared. I liked the feel of the place and it felt like a warm and welcoming place to be. I feel like I’ve gotten to know some of the people here because of what is shared. Â
I have been to a couple of Re-Hash Bashes and have gotten to know some people by doing that. I have also met some people out in the parks. It was nice to be able to put a face with a name from this site or the PP site. If you are not going to have an open forum for talking about a passion or interest that we share, then how is it going to be inviting for new people or for people like me? Â
If you are in a group of people or at a party, aren’t there usually a few people that do most of the talking and then there are the quite ones in the group that don’t share a lot or at all? You could think of the lurkers as the quite ones in your group. Maybe when they do share they might have something valuable to add. Â
So, I guess what I’m basically saying is that this information did not leave me with a nice warm fuzzy feeling about some of the people who make up the “cooler crew”.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Feb 6, 2005 at 03:33pm.]
1. There are "lurkers" out there that only come to leach off of other people and to cause trouble.
2. We had complaints from "New" people that they felt left out of the general banter (that sometimes had nothing to do with noodling) on the regular thread. So in a sense "new" people felt left out on the regular thread.
This of course is not intentional but only natural when friendships form over the years. I personally LOVE new folks! Some of my greatest friendships in the Crew are with former newbies and I always welcome more!
 The invitational is not hard to be invited to, just make yourself known and your in. Contrary to some beliefs it is not super secret (never was) and there is no "inside" information.
It is not there to make anyone feel bad. It simply was a necessary evil that developed due to our growing Crew.
That being said I must repeat that this particular forum is not the PP. This site has been maintained and paid for monthly by some of the older Cooler Crew. While we welcome new folks, we are naturally cautious and request that we get to know you. The internet, as you know, attracts good and bad alike.Please balance this before you rush to judgement.
I remember Crafty, although I don't know if we ever met. Scribe pretty much summed it up I think, except that if you're not posting, it's hard for someone to recommend you to the invite.
So why do you think that the lurkers are stealing your ideas?
Well I don't know if stealing is the correct phrase exactly, but lurkers by definition are coming online taking our ideas and not giving any of their own, which is pretty lame if you ask me, excuses for not posting aside. Now the 2001 and 2002 finders were confirmed lurkers. Does this make them horrible people? Absolutely not, they just used the resources they had available to them, and we happened to be one of those resources however that's exactly how we felt... used.
Besides, even if we do figure it out online, a person still has to go out to the park and actually find it!
There are 2 parts to finding the medallion: 1) figure out the park, 2) get freakin lucky. If we help people with the first 1, then it comes down to who is going to get lucky, and it's really a numbers game. You have maybe a 100 cooler crew members, of those not everyone can get out to the park and dig. It's hard to say how many lurkers there are, but estimates based on internet activity spikes have been in the 1,000's. Leading that many people to the correct park significantly hurts OUR chances to find the medallion, so we aren't going to do it anymore. Plus when you take into account what Scribe said, it doesn't take much to transform yourself from a lurker to a cooler crew member I don't understand the whining.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Feb 6, 2005 at 07:46pm.]
I am always one to throw my 2 cents in, so here goes...
I think as a whole we are a pretty understanding group of people. If you've gone to some rehashes or pre-digs, all it takes is for you to come up and say "hi, I'm crafty". It sounds like you've already done that, but there are so many crew members that sometimes people forget who everyone is. Plus you're not around a whole lot from the sounds of it, so it's easy to be lost in the crowd.
I was a lurker myself, and then went to a pre-dig and talked to some people and was eventually invited into the invitational. I proved that I wasn't there to steal ideas and/or be a jerk. I posted pretty regularly, more than once or twice, and I tried to contribute as much as I could. I understand that it's hard to post when life gets in the way, but it's the only way to ensure that people remember who you are. Plus purple hair and a big mouth doesn't hurt. Nevermind....
As others have said, the invitational is not super secret or anything else. It's just a place to discuss clues and day to day stuff without people who are not interested in getting to know any of us peering in to see what we're up to. That's what blogs are for. Think of the meaning of the word...lurker. We don't throw around that word lightly. If you discuss and contribute, you're not a lurker. Even if an idea has already been posted, agree with it. Say, "I think that's a great idea, so and so. I thought the same thing." Acknowledge that you're there. You're right, most of us don't post a lot, we don't have time or are out in the parks. But we like to stop in everyone once and again and post to let everyone know that we're still here. If you just sit and read what everyone is saying and then make up judgments, good or bad, based on that without ever meeting them, that's creepy and wrong. I'm not saying at all that you're doing that, but we are trying to protect ourselves, if you will, from people who do.
THAT being said, do you always get a warm and fuzzy feeling from everyone you meet at a party? Expecting people to welcome everyone they meet with open arms is a little presumptuous, ESPECIALLY on the internet.
The Cooler Crew is in fact an on-line community. We invite others to use our resources and talk about our passion (the hunt).
Yet we ask nothing in return. In fact we give up our own money and resources to support this place WE call home. That being the case there isn't much more people should be saying other then:
A. I don't like it here and good bye
or
B. Thank you Cooler Crew I'd like to stay.
The invitational thread is for those who contribute. You can easily take notes from Big G, Tim and Scribes last entries and apply any or all of those comments to my opinion about this whole subject as well.
When I found the crew, I knew nothing about the invitational thread and yet I did enough to prove to them that I was serious about being part of this group.
Sharing ideas is usually a recipe for a shorter hunt........ hence the cluewriters need to make it near impossible. One entity we can't blame is the PP, they are doing what they need to do to make this hunt survive.
I would LOVE to put in my 2 cents about sharing ideas, but what I would say would get twisted, turned, and otherwise misinterpreted. In short, I think the invitational is a GREAT idea, and if people are bent out of shape about it they can do one of two things: Ask to get in or go steal ideas from someone else.
Ironically, no, i'm not. It isn't a big deal though. Just because i'm not in doesn't mean i'm against it. Hell, i'd be upset if they ditched the invitational.
at the same time, it was helping me to understand how all this worked. And having a better idea of what the clues meant and where to go drew me into the hunt far more than if I had been left alone scatching my head, unsure of where to go or what to do.
EXACTLY
Thanks for putting it into words.
Similar to an in-person community or a neighborhood, it is inevitable that online communities will develop their own values, mores, and behaviors. The question before us, is how do we respond to unknown person(s) who challenge them. If a known, regular poster had proposed trying to find a way to be more open and welcoming, my guess is that our group would listen intently. However, since the message came from a relatively unknown person, in a less than delicate way, our response is to generally shut that person out. Is there anything wrong with this? I believe our response is natural and okay. This scenario is similar to not welcoming your brand new neighbor or older but unknown neighbor shouting down your new flower bed, while listening carefully to your long-term or close neighbor suggesting different plants.
Â
As a group, we can take two paths: a) Understand that most of us are together only two weeks per year. We do the best we can, in the time we have. We invite those from the non-invitational to the invitational in a willy-nilly fashion. We are okay with this system. Or, b) Have a discussion about what we want to be and how we want to be it (mission statement, goals, etc.). Are we okay being an informal collection of hunters? Do we want to be more organized? Do we want to, for example, define what it means to be a cooler crew member, march in the parade, buy logoed items, become a non-profit entity, charge membership dues, select members in an organized way, accept all members who pay to be a part of the group, etc?
Â
My guess is the first scenario works best for most people. It takes effort, energy, and dedication to be more organized. And, since many people have already left the board for the year, I am not sure how we would even have the discussion or come to consensus on most topics. That being said, if we were more organized, someone from this group might actually find the medallion.
Â
For me personally, both scenarios work. Sometimes I get frustrated at the lack of organization, but in the end, everything seems to work out. I do wish discussion in the invitational and non-invitational were more on topic. I hunted a lot this year, and coming home to discussions of everything but the hunt was a pain in the ass. I thought the Shoot the Breeze thread was for the off-topic chatting. On the other hand, I understand that traditionally we talk about everything in every thread and I am not going to change that.
The Medallionators seems to noodle togather great at Bugg's every night. Just a suggestion ... find a bar and noodle there. Its kind of hard for thousands of lurkers to hide out at the bar. Plus, more Beer!
The only issue with noodling strictly in a bar is the lack of resources. It does cure the lurker issue. But no internet makes for limited resources.
The only issue with noodling strictly in a bar is the lack of resources. It does cure the lurker issue. But no internet makes for limited resources.
I suspect Ares will dispute this before long.
I suspect Ares will dispute this before long.
I have a wireless laptop as well. But as a group thats not the case.
We seem to do well noodling as a group here. Not that I wouldn't prefer to sit and eat together.
:)
[Edited by on Feb 3, 2005 at 09:46pm.]
I have wireless too - but I don't want to drag my laptop around and leave it in my freezing car when I hunt.
on wireless laptop as well...but well...never used my wireless outside my house...
I have wires, and I have tops, and I have a lap.... but I dont have anything that combines all 3.
thanks for always making me laugh Nick-you sure have a different perspective in the Cooler thats forsure
-I can twist it to: "sit on JOES lap, without my top, holding his wires"
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Feb 4, 2005 at 08:00am.]
Yeah.... i take mine back... yours is better.
I suspect Ares will dispute this before long.
actually, i agree with that. and even if we brought in all our laptops, not every place has wi-fi internet access. many do. but a lot still don't. we need to get together a project over the summer as a crew to document free access. i know its there in mears park, and o'gara's. lets add to the list!
Is Matt coming to the RHB? I sure hope so. I haven't had anyone call me a horse's ass in quite some time. I'm looking forward to meeting him and giving him a stern discussion on etiquette.
Horse's ass.
LOL!!!
I take it back, Green, you can't lick my paws on Sunday.
Nah. Not really.
Actually you're a cute widdo bear butt! Prolly a really cute bare bear butt! :D
Can I lick yur paws now??? :D
HEL-LO!
So there is a place that you go that I cant go?
Well, this peoplesforum place has so much to look at already, I am probly not missing much. It will take me a lifetime just to read everything already here, so I guess I'll get over it.
hangout....meet us.....maybe somebody would vouch for ya.......
Especially if you're the one on the right in that picture...
Oh so THAT's how it works Geoff...SURE...we'll let ya into the group no problem! Just look like that and don't dig with an windshield scrapper, that's all we ask. ;)
Loved your post Lisa. It really comes down to how bad do we want it and how much are we willing to give to get it. AND NOW I'M CLOSING THE DOOR TO THAT STATEMENT SO NO ONE CAN WALK THROUGH IT. hahaha
it's nice to see that some don't care though- there really is sooo much to see in the Peoplesforum/online/and in the Cooler alone ---
MMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm Jenniferrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Well, I am a pretty man, but I'm no Chris O'Donnell. Good thing I got grandfathered in before G laid down the pretty law.
You're right RB - You sure are PRETTY!!
And proddy too! :-)
We have to be pretty?
That's it. I'm out!
We have to be pretty?
That's it. I'm out!
Don't worry, we're grandfathered in!
Choice!
>Don't worry, we're grandfathered in!
Did I make the cut off???
Â
Biting my nails, nervously....
Zephyrus you came in just under the wire but only because we were carrying you......
Get it...
......carrying you...
..............he he
hahahaha
Shiznit, any man that can be bungeed to a Vulc truck can be in the invitational.
I make a motion to include that into the criteria from now on.
All in favor...
lets see...bungeed to a fire truck....rubber chicken......
What the hell kind of group is this!
You forgot about the rubbing alcohol.
Phew!!
 I am soooo glad I missed out on the rubber chicken!!
Â
I probably should not have brought that to your attention, huh???
I found this group of people a few years ago when it was at PP. I thought it was a great place and the people who were talking in there seemed nice and inviting to the different ideas that were being shared.Â
Â
I suppose you could consider me a “lurker”.  I have only posted a few times. I don’t know how all of the people who post here can slog through the different posts, which I can tell sometimes they don’t, post their ideas, work, have family lives and go out and hunt for the medallion!
Â
One of the reasons that I don’t post is because this moves too fast for me at the hunt time.  All I have time for is to check in, slog a little and see what others are thinking.  If I have an idea or a thought it is usually shared already and I don’t see the need for repeating what someone else has said. I have never been to any other chat rooms or anything like that...so I guess I have nothing to compare it to. I spent the 1styear just trying to figure out the lingo and getting a feel for the place.
Â
I don’t know why “lurkers” have gotten such a bad rap.  From what I’ve seen, when the hunt is on, the people who know where it is or have a pretty good idea where it is are not in here posting. They are out in the park actively looking for it. So why do you think that the lurkers are stealing your ideas? Besides, even if we do figure it out online, a person still has to go out to the park and actually find it!
Â
I don’t live in St. Paul
anymore and I don’t have the opportunity to be as active as I would like to be in the hunt. This was a great place to come to see how the hunt was going and get the feel for the hunt, even if I wasn’t actively participating in getting out in the cold and having the fun of the hunt.
Â
I found out about there being an “invitational only” site that was going on by slogging through some posts.  Why? I feel a little left out and discriminated against because I am basically a “lurker”. I was drawn to this place because of the ideas & thoughts that were being shared. I liked the feel of the place and it felt like a warm and welcoming place to be. I feel like I’ve gotten to know some of the people here because of what is shared.
Â
I have been to a couple of Re-Hash Bashes and have gotten to know some people by doing that. I have also met some people out in the parks. It was nice to be able to put a face with a name from this site or the PP site. If you are not going to have an open forum for talking about a passion or interest that we share, then how is it going to be inviting for new people or for people like me?
Â
If you are in a group of people or at a party, aren’t there usually a few people that do most of the talking and then there are the quite ones in the group that don’t share a lot or at all? You could think of the lurkers as the quite ones in your group. Maybe when they do share they might have something valuable to add.
Â
So, I guess what I’m basically saying is that this information did not leave me with a nice warm fuzzy feeling about some of the people who make up the “cooler crew”.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Feb 6, 2005 at 03:33pm.]
Crafty,
The "Invitational" was made for two reasons:
1. There are "lurkers" out there that only come to leach off of other people and to cause trouble.
2. We had complaints from "New" people that they felt left out of the general banter (that sometimes had nothing to do with noodling) on the regular thread. So in a sense "new" people felt left out on the regular thread.
This of course is not intentional but only natural when friendships form over the years. I personally LOVE new folks! Some of my greatest friendships in the Crew are with former newbies and I always welcome more!
 The invitational is not hard to be invited to, just make yourself known and your in. Contrary to some beliefs it is not super secret (never was) and there is no "inside" information.
It is not there to make anyone feel bad. It simply was a necessary evil that developed due to our growing Crew.
That being said I must repeat that this particular forum is not the PP. This site has been maintained and paid for monthly by some of the older Cooler Crew. While we welcome new folks, we are naturally cautious and request that we get to know you. The internet, as you know, attracts good and bad alike.Please balance this before you rush to judgement.
I remember Crafty, although I don't know if we ever met. Scribe pretty much summed it up I think, except that if you're not posting, it's hard for someone to recommend you to the invite.
So why do you think that the lurkers are stealing your ideas?
Well I don't know if stealing is the correct phrase exactly, but lurkers by definition are coming online taking our ideas and not giving any of their own, which is pretty lame if you ask me, excuses for not posting aside. Now the 2001 and 2002 finders were confirmed lurkers. Does this make them horrible people? Absolutely not, they just used the resources they had available to them, and we happened to be one of those resources however that's exactly how we felt... used.
Besides, even if we do figure it out online, a person still has to go out to the park and actually find it!
There are 2 parts to finding the medallion: 1) figure out the park, 2) get freakin lucky. If we help people with the first 1, then it comes down to who is going to get lucky, and it's really a numbers game. You have maybe a 100 cooler crew members, of those not everyone can get out to the park and dig. It's hard to say how many lurkers there are, but estimates based on internet activity spikes have been in the 1,000's. Leading that many people to the correct park significantly hurts OUR chances to find the medallion, so we aren't going to do it anymore. Plus when you take into account what Scribe said, it doesn't take much to transform yourself from a lurker to a cooler crew member I don't understand the whining.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Feb 6, 2005 at 07:46pm.]
I am always one to throw my 2 cents in, so here goes...
I think as a whole we are a pretty understanding group of people. If you've gone to some rehashes or pre-digs, all it takes is for you to come up and say "hi, I'm crafty". It sounds like you've already done that, but there are so many crew members that sometimes people forget who everyone is. Plus you're not around a whole lot from the sounds of it, so it's easy to be lost in the crowd.
I was a lurker myself, and then went to a pre-dig and talked to some people and was eventually invited into the invitational. I proved that I wasn't there to steal ideas and/or be a jerk. I posted pretty regularly, more than once or twice, and I tried to contribute as much as I could. I understand that it's hard to post when life gets in the way, but it's the only way to ensure that people remember who you are. Plus purple hair and a big mouth doesn't hurt. Nevermind....
As others have said, the invitational is not super secret or anything else. It's just a place to discuss clues and day to day stuff without people who are not interested in getting to know any of us peering in to see what we're up to. That's what blogs are for. Think of the meaning of the word...lurker. We don't throw around that word lightly. If you discuss and contribute, you're not a lurker. Even if an idea has already been posted, agree with it. Say, "I think that's a great idea, so and so. I thought the same thing." Acknowledge that you're there. You're right, most of us don't post a lot, we don't have time or are out in the parks. But we like to stop in everyone once and again and post to let everyone know that we're still here. If you just sit and read what everyone is saying and then make up judgments, good or bad, based on that without ever meeting them, that's creepy and wrong. I'm not saying at all that you're doing that, but we are trying to protect ourselves, if you will, from people who do.
THAT being said, do you always get a warm and fuzzy feeling from everyone you meet at a party? Expecting people to welcome everyone they meet with open arms is a little presumptuous, ESPECIALLY on the internet.
The Cooler Crew is in fact an on-line community. We invite others to use our resources and talk about our passion (the hunt).
Yet we ask nothing in return. In fact we give up our own money and resources to support this place WE call home. That being the case there isn't much more people should be saying other then:
A. I don't like it here and good bye
or
B. Thank you Cooler Crew I'd like to stay.
The invitational thread is for those who contribute. You can easily take notes from Big G, Tim and Scribes last entries and apply any or all of those comments to my opinion about this whole subject as well.
When I found the crew, I knew nothing about the invitational thread and yet I did enough to prove to them that I was serious about being part of this group.
Just like that... You're in.
Sharing ideas is usually a recipe for a shorter hunt........ hence the cluewriters need to make it near impossible. One entity we can't blame is the PP, they are doing what they need to do to make this hunt survive.
I would LOVE to put in my 2 cents about sharing ideas, but what I would say would get twisted, turned, and otherwise misinterpreted. In short, I think the invitational is a GREAT idea, and if people are bent out of shape about it they can do one of two things: Ask to get in or go steal ideas from someone else.
Nice Newbie -hahaha
thanks for YOUR input
w0rd - are you in on the list newbie?
RR... newbie is Jake.
Ironically, no, i'm not. It isn't a big deal though. Just because i'm not in doesn't mean i'm against it. Hell, i'd be upset if they ditched the invitational.
Me too.