No one forced those swift boat guys into anything, nor did anyone force me to sign enlistment papers stating that I may be forced to kill or that I may be asked to do something that may get me killed. I know the value of human life since I was will to give it up. You're welcome.
What do Democrat leaders really believe concerning their "Bush lied" mantra? If you were to inject the whole lot of them with truth serum and turn them loose with microphones and recording equipment, here's what you might hear.
Folks, we’re talking here with Terry Carville-Begala, the famed political strategist. How goes the fight to trash Bush’s Supreme Court nominee, Sam Alito? Â
This says that bodine just predicted Hillary Clinton will become our first female President in 2008.
Only an idiot would say that I predicted Hillary would win. All the rat said was a Clinton-Bush contest. Just because I don't think Jeb will run doesn't mean I think Clinton will win. She is an unlikable bitch so her odds of winning are slim.
I have no problem with someone being againt the war, but don't use the veterans as political pawns. We signed up knowing we could be killed. Find another reason to hate the war.
OK, how about because it is never going to solve the problems in that region of the world, it was launched on erroneous information and in spite of the fact that Iraq was never supposed to be the goal and because it caused and continues to cause massive nubers of dead and dying, not to mention incredible suffering and injury to tens of thousands of civilians? How about because we were NOT attacked by anyone from inside Iraq, (but we WERE attacked by people born and raised in Saudi Arabia a nation-state whose leaders hold hands with our president while they help fund the people we fight, and as they continue to teach their youngsters to HATE and KILL Americans, in school rooms all across their country)?
Perhaps the words of one fairly famous Soldier put it: GOA and later President D. D. Eisenhower once stated; "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity."
Oh yes, here's more of that most-impressive speech by Eisenhower, who certainly would have been dismissed by Neocons as a "Liberal lunatic and traitor", had he spoken these words today;
You do not lead by hitting people over the head-that's assault, not leadership. I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, atheft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
We merely want to live in peace with all the world, to trade with them, to commune with them, to learn from their culture as they may learn from ours, so that the products of our toil may be used for our schools and our roads and our churches and not for guns and planes and tanks and ships of war.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.
I would rather try to persuade a man to go along, because once I have persuaded him he will stick. If I scare him, he will stay just as long as he is scared, and then he is gone.
Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and co-operation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace. No easy problems ever come to the President of the United States. If they are easy to solve, somebody else has solved them.
Rep. Jean Schmidt now stands as a Liar, since the Marine whom she quoted in her diatribe last Friday (a statement which she then tried to retract - or "Cut and Run" from), now claims that not only didn't he say what she claimed he said in her exceptionally mean spirited attack on John Mutrtha last Friday on the House Floor, but that he also never gave her permission to use his name in any way, and especially he never gave her permission to attack another Marine, in his name.
Be that as it may, I find it interesting that nearly thirty years in the Marines, and Col. Bubp has missed every single military engagement, including Southeast Asia, Beirut, Grenada, Panama, The Gulf(twice now) and don't forget The Balkans, Somolia and on and on and on.
But that hasn't stopped Col. Bubp from being pushed by Ms. Schmidt as her Poster Boy for attacks on the character of a truly decorated Marine Veteran in the person of Rep. John Murtha.
HOUSE RULES (Excerpts from the House Rules and Manual:
"In the practice of the House, a member is not permitted to refer to another member by name, or to address him in the second person. The proper reference to another member is 'the gentleman (or gentlewoman) from ...,' naming the member's state.
"By rule of the House, as well as by parliamentary law, personalities are forbidden, whether against the member in the member's capacity as representative or otherwise, even if the references may be relevant to the pending question. The House has censured a member for gross personalities. The chair may intervene to prevent improper references where it is evident that a particular member is being described. The chair does not rule on the veracity of a statement made by a member in debate. Although accusing another member of deceit engages in personality, merely accusing another member of making a mistake does not.
"A member may not read in debate extraneous material critical of another member, which would be improper if spoken in the member's own words."
Republicans are certainly giving her "A Pass", yet isn't it the duty of any person running for such high office to know parliamentary rules, before attempting to hold such a position of power?
If this had been a Democrat, would anyone give him/her "A Pass"?
Of course not. However, it is your right even to give her praise, if that is your choice.
Yes well I am certain we are all happy about that, yet it doesn't answer the question of whether or not giving her "A Pass" is in reality, giving her (and anyone else who would publicly dishonor another member of The House Of Representatives) permission to directly violate the rules of the House, again?
I wonder, what do you think of the Judge Alito commercials now running on the television, the ones that are filled ONLY with people who were once his own Law Clerks (yet not one single person from the Congress, nor the Bench, nor even 1 identifiable Republican Lawmaker of any kind), all singing the man's praises?
I haven't seen them. Maybe they're no running around here. From what you say, it resembles a campaign commercial. The public isn't going to vote on him.
Then why the commercials? Why are they spending millions of dollars advertising the man? (And they are running "around here" as I just watched another one, on CNN. All commercials are placed within certain areas of the country via cable and satellite network feeds into those areas.)
Just as with spreading falsehoods and half-truths about defendants in an ongoing trial, in the hopes of nullifying a potential Jury, the people are most certainly being asked to vote for Alito, by NOT opposing him.
I suppose that's it. They went through the public opposition phase with Harriet Miers.
They as much want to assuage the right wing of the party that wants a strict construction worker, construction builder or whateverthehell the term is.
The guy has been around for awhile. He seems solid enough. I don't know what a fight by the Democrats would accomplish. They would just bring another one like Alito off the bench.
Did I stutter? What part of "I have no problem with anyone opposing the war" did you guys not understand?
"and no one forced any of the vets who stood up and said this war is wrong."
"when your side does it it's "nobody forced them" but when the other side does it, it's "they were used as political pawns". "
"I call bullshit." - Crabby
I'm not sure what your point is crabs, I believe we are in agreement. If a vet, or anyone else for that matter, wants to oppose the war I have no problem with that. I have a problem with people saying they were sacrificed no reason. As I said before, if you don't like the war don't blame it on war casualties, find another reason. I may disagree with your opposition to the war, but I respect your right to your opinion.
The guy has been around for awhile. He seems solid enough. I don't know what a fight by the Democrats would accomplish. They would just bring another one like Alito off the bench.
now claims that not only didn't he say what she claimed he said in her exceptionally mean spirited attack on John Mutrtha last Friday on the House Floor, but that he also never gave her permission to use his name in any way, and especially he never gave her permission to attack another Marine, in his name.
While this may be true, they did have a discussion on the phone concerning this resolution and he did wish to send a message. "My message to the folks in Washington, D.C., and to all the Congress people up there, is to stay the course. We cannot leave Iraq or cut and run - any terminology that you want to use." http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051122/NEWS01/511220352
As he states earlier in the article, "The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute. Unfortunately, they came out wrong."
As you stated, she retracted the comments and also went on to appologize in writing to Murtha stating that to explain that she has a lot to learn and did not mean to disparage his service. It is unclear if she even knew at the time of the comments of Murtha's service to our country.
She is a new member with a lot to learn and as Rat says was probably caught up in the moment. She has recieved a lot of deserved grief over this, but the basic idea still stands that we should not leave Iraqi's at a time when they most need us. The time will come when they are able to take care of themselves, but now is not that time.
I find it interesting that nearly thirty years in the Marines, and Col. Bubp has missed every single military engagement, including Southeast Asia, Beirut, Grenada, Panama, The Gulf(twice now) and don't forget The Balkans, Somolia and on and on and on.
So you go from being upset with someone who questions a Marine to questioning a Marine yourself? If by Southeast Asia you mean Vietnam, that was long over by the time he was commissioned in 1978. Beirut, Grenada, Panama, Somalia were small expeditionary units that I highly doubt included reservist. As for the first Gulf War, most reservists were used to fill personnel slots here in the US to replace active duty Marines who made the deployment to Kuwait. During the second Gulf War he served on the staff of General Tommy Franks at the United States Central Command.
Perhaps you would like to show us your military credentials?
As he states earlier in the article, "The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute. Unfortunately, they came out wrong." Actually they came out right.
Perhaps you would like to show us your military credentials? Oh he has, ad nauseum.
I'm holding to my prediction until events change: Another Bush - Clinton race in 2008. Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush. Maybe Jeb in '12 but not '08. - bodine
Perhaps you would like to show us your military credentials?
Perhaps not. But if you would be so kind as to list your OWN military credentials - aside the others who are criticizing and accusing me (I believe there are now 4 of you) then I would at least "consider" it.
By the way, do any of you have any military experience? Is military experience a requirement to excersize the freedom to offer our opinions and personal, political beliefs in this forum?
Since 6 out of 10 Americans now believe that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, and others misrepresented what our government knew(and said) about Saddam Hussein's WMD capacity and his links to terrorists, yellow cake, Osama, etc. - in order to make a stronger case for invading Iraq, the question then is quite simple:
Who's correct?
Did these people mislead us, or didn't they?
Chew on that as you enjoy your Turkey on this blessed Holiday, in the safety and comfort of your dining rooms.
that's one hell of a thing to say about human lives.
maybe you should mention that somewhere between 25,000 and 30,000 civilians have also been killed.
you mean like the Republicans used the swift boat vets?
No one forced those swift boat guys into anything, nor did anyone force me to sign enlistment papers stating that I may be forced to kill or that I may be asked to do something that may get me killed. I know the value of human life since I was will to give it up. You're welcome.
There's no reason to take any of this personally, CSC,
When's this place shutting down for good?
I don't know, but why do you ask?
Because the begathon continues.
and no one forced any of the vets who stood up and said this war is wrong.
when your side does it it's "nobody forced them" but when the other side does it, it's "they were used as political pawns".
I call bullshit.
I'm holding to my prediction until events change: Another Bush - Clinton race in 2008.
Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush.
Lastly, how have their 3 deaths improved our national security?
and you have proof that the war in iraq has not improved our security?
What do Democrat leaders really believe concerning their "Bush lied" mantra? If you were to inject the whole lot of them with truth serum and turn them loose with microphones and recording equipment, here's what you might hear.
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/davidlimbaugh/2005/11/22/176429.html
Folks, we’re talking here with Terry Carville-Begala, the famed political strategist. How goes the fight to trash Bush’s Supreme Court nominee, Sam Alito? Â
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/johnleo/2005/11/21/176225.html
This says that bodine just predicted Hillary Clinton will become our first female President in 2008.
I'm sure she thanks you for your confidence in her, jethro.
This says that bodine just predicted Hillary Clinton will become our first female President in 2008.
Only an idiot would say that I predicted Hillary would win. All the rat said was a Clinton-Bush contest. Just because I don't think Jeb will run doesn't mean I think Clinton will win. She is an unlikable bitch so her odds of winning are slim.
Poor confused crabweed.
I have no problem with someone being againt the war, but don't use the veterans as political pawns. We signed up knowing we could be killed. Find another reason to hate the war.
OK, how about because it is never going to solve the problems in that region of the world, it was launched on erroneous information and in spite of the fact that Iraq was never supposed to be the goal and because it caused and continues to cause massive nubers of dead and dying, not to mention incredible suffering and injury to tens of thousands of civilians? How about because we were NOT attacked by anyone from inside Iraq, (but we WERE attacked by people born and raised in Saudi Arabia a nation-state whose leaders hold hands with our president while they help fund the people we fight, and as they continue to teach their youngsters to HATE and KILL Americans, in school rooms all across their country)?
Perhaps the words of one fairly famous Soldier put it: GOA and later President D. D. Eisenhower once stated; "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity."
Terry Carville-Begala
Who is "Terry Carville-Begala"?
Oh yes, here's more of that most-impressive speech by Eisenhower, who certainly would have been dismissed by Neocons as a "Liberal lunatic and traitor", had he spoken these words today;
You do not lead by hitting people over the head-that's assault, not leadership. I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft
from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
We merely want to live in peace with all the world, to trade with them, to commune with them, to learn from their culture as they may learn from ours, so that the products of our toil may be used for our schools and our roads and our churches and not for guns and planes and tanks and ships of war.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.
I would rather try to persuade a man to go along, because once I have persuaded him he will stick. If I scare him, he will stay just as long as he is scared, and then he is gone.
Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and co-operation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace. No easy problems ever come to the President of the United States. If they are easy to solve, somebody else has solved them.
(This was a great man.)
Rep. Jean Schmidt now stands as a Liar, since the Marine whom she quoted in her diatribe last Friday (a statement which she then tried to retract - or "Cut and Run" from), now claims that not only didn't he say what she claimed he said in her exceptionally mean spirited attack on John Mutrtha last Friday on the House Floor, but that he also never gave her permission to use his name in any way, and especially he never gave her permission to attack another Marine, in his name.
Be that as it may, I find it interesting that nearly thirty years in the Marines, and Col. Bubp has missed every single military engagement, including Southeast Asia, Beirut, Grenada, Panama, The Gulf(twice now) and don't forget The Balkans, Somolia and on and on and on.
But that hasn't stopped Col. Bubp from being pushed by Ms. Schmidt as her Poster Boy for attacks on the character of a truly decorated Marine Veteran in the person of Rep. John Murtha.
Freshman inexperience. War talk and all, People get wrapped up in emotion and wanna glom on to "one of the troops." Talk tough.
Let me be the first to graciously give here a pass.
HOUSE RULES (Excerpts from the House Rules and Manual:
"In the practice of the House, a member is not permitted to refer to another member by name, or to address him in the second person. The proper reference to another member is 'the gentleman (or gentlewoman) from ...,' naming the member's state.
"By rule of the House, as well as by parliamentary law, personalities are forbidden, whether against the member in the member's capacity as representative or otherwise, even if the references may be relevant to the pending question. The House has censured a member for gross personalities. The chair may intervene to prevent improper references where it is evident that a particular member is being described. The chair does not rule on the veracity of a statement made by a member in debate. Although accusing another member of deceit engages in personality, merely accusing another member of making a mistake does not.
"A member may not read in debate extraneous material critical of another member, which would be improper if spoken in the member's own words."
Republicans are certainly giving her "A Pass", yet isn't it the duty of any person running for such high office to know parliamentary rules, before attempting to hold such a position of power?
If this had been a Democrat, would anyone give him/her "A Pass"?
Of course not. However, it is your right even to give her praise, if that is your choice.
I'm just glad there hasn't been any fistfights that ended up on C-Span.
Yes well I am certain we are all happy about that, yet it doesn't answer the question of whether or not giving her "A Pass" is in reality, giving her (and anyone else who would publicly dishonor another member of The House Of Representatives) permission to directly violate the rules of the House, again?
Should they throw the book at her?
I wonder, what do you think of the Judge Alito commercials now running on the television, the ones that are filled ONLY with people who were once his own Law Clerks (yet not one single person from the Congress, nor the Bench, nor even 1 identifiable Republican Lawmaker of any kind), all singing the man's praises?
Should they throw the book at her?
Yes, any of the books entitled "Parliamentary Procedure" should be thrown at her, pages open.
But what matters is that the people in Ohio will be the final arbitors of her future as a member of Congress.
I haven't seen them. Maybe they're no running around here. From what you say, it resembles a campaign commercial. The public isn't going to vote on him.
Then why the commercials? Why are they spending millions of dollars advertising the man? (And they are running "around here" as I just watched another one, on CNN. All commercials are placed within certain areas of the country via cable and satellite network feeds into those areas.)
Just as with spreading falsehoods and half-truths about defendants in an ongoing trial, in the hopes of nullifying a potential Jury, the people are most certainly being asked to vote for Alito, by NOT opposing him.
I suppose that's it. They went through the public opposition phase with Harriet Miers.
They as much want to assuage the right wing of the party that wants a strict construction worker, construction builder or whateverthehell the term is.
The guy has been around for awhile. He seems solid enough. I don't know what a fight by the Democrats would accomplish. They would just bring another one like Alito off the bench.
Eisenhower, who certainly would have been dismissed by Neocons as a "Liberal lunatic and traitor", had he spoken these words today;
......
(This was a great man.)
Did I stutter? What part of "I have no problem with anyone opposing the war" did you guys not understand?
"and no one forced any of the vets who stood up and said this war is wrong."
"when your side does it it's "nobody forced them" but when the other side does it, it's "they were used as political pawns". "
"I call bullshit." - Crabby
I'm not sure what your point is crabs, I believe we are in agreement. If a vet, or anyone else for that matter, wants to oppose the war I have no problem with that. I have a problem with people saying they were sacrificed no reason. As I said before, if you don't like the war don't blame it on war casualties, find another reason. I may disagree with your opposition to the war, but I respect your right to your opinion.
The guy has been around for awhile. He seems solid enough. I don't know what a fight by the Democrats would accomplish. They would just bring another one like Alito off the bench.
now claims that not only didn't he say what she claimed he said in her exceptionally mean spirited attack on John Mutrtha last Friday on the House Floor, but that he also never gave her permission to use his name in any way, and especially he never gave her permission to attack another Marine, in his name.
While this may be true, they did have a discussion on the phone concerning this resolution and he did wish to send a message. "My message to the folks in Washington, D.C., and to all the Congress people up there, is to stay the course. We cannot leave Iraq or cut and run - any terminology that you want to use." http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051122/NEWS01/511220352
As he states earlier in the article, "The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute. Unfortunately, they came out wrong."
As you stated, she retracted the comments and also went on to appologize in writing to Murtha stating that to explain that she has a lot to learn and did not mean to disparage his service. It is unclear if she even knew at the time of the comments of Murtha's service to our country.
She is a new member with a lot to learn and as Rat says was probably caught up in the moment. She has recieved a lot of deserved grief over this, but the basic idea still stands that we should not leave Iraqi's at a time when they most need us. The time will come when they are able to take care of themselves, but now is not that time.
I find it interesting that nearly thirty years in the Marines, and Col. Bubp has missed every single military engagement, including Southeast Asia, Beirut, Grenada, Panama, The Gulf(twice now) and don't forget The Balkans, Somolia and on and on and on.
So you go from being upset with someone who questions a Marine to questioning a Marine yourself? If by Southeast Asia you mean Vietnam, that was long over by the time he was commissioned in 1978. Beirut, Grenada, Panama, Somalia were small expeditionary units that I highly doubt included reservist. As for the first Gulf War, most reservists were used to fill personnel slots here in the US to replace active duty Marines who made the deployment to Kuwait. During the second Gulf War he served on the staff of General Tommy Franks at the United States Central Command.
Perhaps you would like to show us your military credentials?
As he states earlier in the article, "The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute. Unfortunately, they came out wrong." Actually they came out right.
Perhaps you would like to show us your military credentials? Oh he has, ad nauseum.
predicted a Jed Bush/Hillary Clinton race in 08.
predicted Jeb Bush would not win that race.
all this adds up to...
predicted Hillary Clinton would win.
Rice/Hillary in '08??? Maybe. I don't see Jeb in this one.
How can you see Condeleeza Rice and not Jeb Bush?
Perhaps you would like to show us your military credentials?
Perhaps not. But if you would be so kind as to list your OWN military credentials - aside the others who are criticizing and accusing me (I believe there are now 4 of you) then I would at least "consider" it.
By the way, do any of you have any military experience? Is military experience a requirement to excersize the freedom to offer our opinions and personal, political beliefs in this forum?
Since 6 out of 10 Americans now believe that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, and others misrepresented what our government knew(and said) about Saddam Hussein's WMD capacity and his links to terrorists, yellow cake, Osama, etc. - in order to make a stronger case for invading Iraq, the question then is quite simple:
Who's correct?
Did these people mislead us, or didn't they?
Chew on that as you enjoy your Turkey on this blessed Holiday, in the safety and comfort of your dining rooms.
The troops now in Iraq won't be so fortunate.
Only 47 posts and Morti is in full, liberal, deflection mode when he's questioned.
Sorry Mort. There's nothing to chew on.
or in Torpedo's case, nothing to chew with.
Another crabweed attempt at grade school humor.
I would never presume to be better at making you look like a fool than the way you yourself make you look like the fool you are.
Wow.
Crabs, you have a gift. WIT.
I would bet that everyone except for 1 was laughing pretty good at that last exchange, whether they can admit it or not.
LOL
Morti is easily amused by our resident doper. What a shocker!
I am amused by many things, and I have heard that humor is an important part of any healthy lifestyle.
I am amused by your primate fetish.
When Reagan won the election a cartoonist had a picture of an old, grizzled monkey sitting in a chair watching television.
From the set comes, "and now President Reagan will deliver his inaugural address..."
The caption below the cartoon reads. "Not even a card...."
Now THAT'S funny.