Discussion regarding the Code of Conduct

Tim - my hope is that we ALL can move forward and quit rehashing past arguments.

Can you do that?

You forget Tim that ares was pointing out that you said you didn't see a downside to Redbear's departure. You were celebrating the fact that a member found this place to be unfriendly and at times downright hostile and decided to leave because he saw no point in continuing to communicate on that level simply because you did not like that person. We happened to like Redbear and value him as a member. Is it acceptable that you celebrate? and as for your admitting that you bait ares... why? that is exactly the behavior that we are speaking of. so whatever has happened in the past the point of this discussion is to move forward. OK... we accept responsibility too and are willing to stop reacting in an inflamitory manner. You however need to examine your motivation for inciting anger in others... why do it? it isn't fun, it isn't mature and it isn't right. You don't like us... ok, we can live with that. But treat others around here with respect and you will find that we reciprocate.

OH.... and ares was speaking of your NOSE Tim... sheesh get your mind out of the gutter ;p

terry it is unfair to ask me to not defend my name when I am getting bashed in here. I understand the importance of moving on, but lets move on without dragging my name through the mud.

I think what tim is getting at is that everyone is coming down on him for attacking ares, truth is at the start of it tim wasn't talking to ares, ares chimed in and then the whole thing got started, I went back and read it and truthfully ares started that whole thing but others won't see it that way because they like ares and not tim, that's not right.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It had nothing to do with redbear.

shaking my head... if the point isn't to move forward what is the point?

it's too bad that the truth came out and I'm not really the big bad guy you wanted to portray me as isn't it tc?

I'm defending my name here, and I feel like I have the right to do that with the slander that has been going on in here.

interesting to note post counts... obviously this is being discussed elsewhere and they are sending in the reinforcements...

I am not interested in arguing further with you Tim. If your motivation is not to go forward I don't know what to tell you...

good strategy, when you are beat... change the subject.

hey look a butterfly!

I went back and re-read the posts, that's where my opinion comes from, period.

tc I didn't expect you to agree with me, I expected you to argue with me. but I wanted to get that evidence out there so people that I care about can see what happened.

Tim - You said you didn't remember a time doing it to me, you apologized and I accepted. End of that.

There have been other incidents where you, rather knowingly or not, have tried to provoke others.

And regarding the argument with ares - regardless of how it began, you had a part in it's continuation.

That is the point of all this.

An argument can't continue if no one participates.

I have no intention of bashing you. I am simply asking that what has occurred in the past doesn't happen again.

Can you please accept and own your responsibility? Can you move on being the Tim I've known to be a nice guy that cared about how other people feel?

I never said I didn't have anything to do with it, I believe I have already owned up to that. But the fact that you and others are running my name through the mud is unfair in my opinion.

I'll do my best to not argue in here because it doesn't mean much to me. What does mean something to me is how people percieve me and I think the perception is unfair.

Tim - I appreciate your owning up to your part in all this.

It's not my intention to rake you through the mud. I have known you for a number of years and have thought you to be a fine young man.

Having said that, I hope we can agree to disagree and move forward.

I have one other issue that I am going to throw out here and hope it doesn't lead to any arguments. My true hope is that it opens the door for some respectful discussion.

Gay bashing is the topic.

For quite some time, there have been a number of people who are teasing each other about being gay.

I personally find that offensive. Perhaps I'm being too sensitive about it as I do understand that it's done in fun.

Having said that, I will point out that there is an estimated 1 in 10 people who are either gay, lesbian, bisexual or transexual. The law of averages, therefore, means there may be someone here that is not heterosexual.

Do you want to convey this as a place those of differing sexual preferences are not welcomed?

Terry (I mean this in all seriousness - incase it gets misconstrued)

I applaud you bringing the topic up, and think it's a very vaild point. I respect your feelings of it being offinsive.

at the same time, I can see the side of they people who do it back and forth.. it's done in hit movies (ex. 40yr old virgin) and being its a pretty mainstream thing to do, so people maynot realize someone would take offense to it.

I have a lot of friends who are gay - and certainly rib them in much the same way and they tease me back in much the same way - and would it be one of them on here, they would take it in stride as a joke and prolly throw some right back all in fun.

But I can see your concerns - esp. if someone isn't necessarily 'out'.

My question then is - no gay jokes, but then after that - where do we draw the line? Does everything go the way of Archie Bunker?

we already made the buttons with the fairy guy that say thx 1138, but he's not really gay he's just a fairy guy and it's hilarious.

I hope that doesn't offend anyone.

LL Ares is NOT the only person that Tim has provoked or talked "smack" about/to. He's done it to me as well as others, and it's not right. That's what we're saying. He goes around saying that he's "adult" ect, well then he should act that way. Making fun of others and belittleing them is NOT adult. I am past him talking about me, what ever, if it floats his boat, if it makes him happy, so be it. It just goes to say that what goes around comes around, and sometimes karma can nip you in the back side. I have NO problems what so ever being respectful to Tim if I see him in public. Hell I'd even give the guy a hug because that is the kind of person that I am. You don't have to "hate" a person just because you don't agree with them, and that is what's going on here. I don't want to drag Tim's name thru the mud, but it's high time someone called him out on his antics. It needs to stop in order for the crew to survive. It's run quite a few people away from the crew and away from the boards, and I'm not turning another cheek to it. I'm sorry.

My second cousin was a fairy, and had a tragic pixie accident.

I'd thank you to kindly retract your comment Tim.

would it make you feel better if I give you a free button?

Only if the proceeds go to pixie awareness.

my response to the whole thing.

:eyeroll:

i'm offended by the offense that people are taking to the offensiveness.

i'm not trying to start trouble, but come on. i don't think that any huge lines have been crossed. if people are offended, they have the right to call others out and speak their mind, definitely, but one can't expect people to stop just because they are offended.

i'm offended by nascar. i don't make people stop watching it because i'm offended. i just don't drive through coon rapids if i can help it. DOH! :goofy:

Tim, first I know I've brought you up in discussion lately, but I don't mean it to bash you or drag you through the mud, but use you as a part of an illustration for points that I'm trying to make. Secondly, I don't think that we can truly go back to pinpoint when people started something. We can't really blame anyone. TC was trying to defend Ares about the argument that you brought up again. I think what she was getting at was the fact that you had applauded the fact that Redbear said that he was no longer going to be around. I can't say I know the context you posted it in, but to a number of people, they took it as celebrating the fact that he was gone. Lilman and Redbear aren't directly connected in your mind, but in the minds of other people, they are connected. You made negative comments towards individuals who are friends of other people. Look at it in reverse. What if someone made fun of Pay Me, then they made fun of Big G on a separate occasion? You may feel that a person may have it out for the Breakfast Club, that they may have it out for women, whatever. You may warn the person for what they say about PayMe, and even though the subject changes, the emotion and behavior is still the same. Also, I want to say that you like to have fun, make jokes and say stuff to incite people. You can do it with your good friends and they will understand. You can do it with others, and they won't be as understanding. The incident with Ares was not a solitary incident. You do things enough, you will get a reputation or a perception. Overtime that does build up. I don't want you taking this the wrong way, I want you to see this as an observation. Do what you will with it.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make, and I think others are trying to make, is that we all realize that there are others here that we don't get along with. We can't change the past. We can only affect the here and now. I'm not trying to blame people or make people look bad. I'm just trying to help things get to where more people can be happy and enjoy things, and use past experiences as learning tools.

and for the record, i'm not trying to stoke any fires or cause any trouble. it's just everything seems to have been blown way out of proportion. i agree with what you're saying terry, i really do. but i just don't think that anyone is doing anything here out of hatred.

the fairy guy is this year's scratchy guy. we're not making fun of gay people because we hate them, we're making fun because that particular guy is wearing a funny outfit and looks goofy, just like we made fun of scratchy face guy. it's a joke.

yeah redbear posted in the things he enjoys thread that he enjoyed that that was his last post. someone said that wasn't good and I said I only see good news.

I just don't believe in giving someone attention when they are saying it's good they are posting here anymore, I say good I'm glad you are happy with that. I don's say "oh redbear, please don't leave, I want you to stay so badly".

I'm not sorry for that.

It goes back to how things can't be truly understood because it's typed, it doesn't have voice inflection. Plenty of people, myself included, saw it as you were saying that you were glad he wasn't going to be posting any more. If you had said something like "Good luck with life" or "It's all good things because from what I can tell he's going to be happy from not posting here anymore." It's like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". You crack jokes and start stuff enough times, it's going to be hard for people to understand when you're being serious, or when your statements are ambiguous.

Mullets are the only things that give me the creeps.

You may feel that a person may have it out for the Breakfast Club,

hey, that's a great movie.

I particularaly like pistachio.

Yup, pistachio ice cream is my favorite!

Nt Thays Thigh :smile:

G - I did state that I know comments here are made in fun. I also own the fact that I'm offended by something that others may not be.

Thank you for your comments and willingness to discuss the issue.

pistachio

It's true. Pistachio is her favorite.

I would like to touch on Big G's thoughts. I understand that you take offense to people taking offense to things. The impression that I take from that is that you do not care about how other people feel or what they think at times. Again, that's the impression that I get from what you're saying. I know that things are said in joking, that things aren't always meant seriously. That's what the intent is, but not what may be received. Communication is a two-way street. What one person says, and how another person interprets it. An inside joke, for example, is going to be really funny to one person, and somewhat stupid to another person. If someone feels upset, angry, sad, anything negative by what someone has said or done, I think we need to take it seriously and address it. We wouldn't need moderators if we didn't care how people felt about some things. I think if we don't listen to people about their concerns and how they feel, then things may get out of hand.

Another thing that bothers me a bit is that people want to make fun of this and brush this off, make light of all of this when there are people taking this seriously. This all came about from a very serious situation. We're trying to take this seriously, deal with things in the best way possible. There are people who wanted to discuss the COC because they were not comfortable with it and they wanted more discussion. We are doing so, and there are things being discussed that aren't always as nice. It has to be done though. If people want to make fun of it now, or try to ignore it, it will come back again. There's still remnants of the problems caused by the revealing of the Breakfast Club thread. We're trying to accomplish things and do something positive for this place, for people here. At least that's how I see it. I know that people don't want to see this bickering and personal crap. I don't want to either. But by ignoring it, talking about ice cream and pixies isn't really going to help much. It will push things away for a bit, but unless we do some work at it, it's going to come back sooner and worse than when we left it. No amount of ice cream will help I think.

Fair enough TMK, I understand things need to be hashed out. I think Scribe, Myself, etc. are just trying to get peoples defenses down and hopefully crack a smile in an otherwise tumultuous situation.

If it is being viewed as counter productive, then I will try and keep that out of this thread.

I don't mind humor at times. Hell, I'll do it myself too. I get the impression that people don't want to deal with things. If people don't want to deal with the code of conduct, that's more than fine. They can mark the thread as read. I just don't know that it's as productive for what people are hoping to accomplish.

PS- It's just my opinion. I'm just giving my opinion, because that's what people wanted. I'm not in moderator mode here, just personally giving my opinion.

well that's just it, humor is one thing, but when you're saying stuff for the sole purpose of hurting someone's feelings? That's a different story. It just goes to show that you have no respect for other people's feelings!

Was that directed any anyone in particular MM, or just a general statement?

It's just a general statement that goes for everyone, including myself.

Gotcha.

scribe knows I hate ice cream, that's why she keeps posting about it.

Really? I don't think I've ever known anyone to hate ice cream.

I had a mullet when I was 19, but that was a good year for them. I really don't follow auto racing, but if I did...it would most likely be formula one.

Personally I loved it when THX1138 took all the heat

Who wants to take my spot?? They can have it... but I want to make sure these things are still filled before I hand over the keys to my successor.

one -somebody on here during the day

two -somebody that is here at nite

three -somebody that is on here on weekends

four -somebody that is on here enough to fill other times

five -somebody that has a sense of history of the crew

six -somebody with an attitude of "ok -this sucks but how do I fix it"

MOST IMPORTANT -somebody that posts here...I'm dead serious on this....(not just lurk...I mean POSTS in all threads...)

I was a major supporter of COC heck it was my idea to get the ball moving...

why??

I wanted to see more of a family attitude to the hunt / hunts and not needing to worry about explaining to my kids, spouse, friends, etc. why some SOB did the unexpected.

Wanna have fun and post NON-FAMILY issues?? take it just outside the door on the other side of the window...its not that hard to do....

Why do you think THX, OTS, IAN,MMM, and Myself all have threads outside of the crew??

AS far as the COC goes in my eyes 99.9% of the time it will never be an issue for 99% of us...what it does prevent is somebody coming in here ranting and raving all nite long posting porn, swearing, calling people names, and being a total jerk to everybody, slander, lies, etc.....

Last Nite I was drunk...but would it be acceptable for me to come in here and say..."payme is prego but not with OTS" here who and go off into a big long lie??

Of course I would never do that....but who's to say it couldn't happen....

than the next day I say...guys I was drunk...tough.....people would be hurt....people would be mad...but than I pull out the trump card of saying....well nobody told me I couldn't do it...

Who wants to take my spot?? They can have it...

I'd have to second that.

Fortunatly I don't come on here when I'm drunk because I can't type when I'm in the drink.

I think we all feel that way...but I care about what happens here.

Fortunately, I gave up being drunk.

Additionally, I am particularly crabby about this statement: "If someone posts to discuss their personal problems or seeks help from other forums members, please do not respond unless you have something positive or helpful to add." Huh? Who determines what is helpful and/or positive? What if someone posts they are having trouble in their marriage and one person responds by saying, "your spouse sounds like an asshole and you should get a divorce" as opposed to another person who responds by saying, "prayers coming your way". Which is more helpful? Again, too subjective.

IMHO I really think you know what is phase is intended for....

I think what we are trying to avoid is the saying of "ya your hubby is an asshole but I don't blame him...." no need to kick a person when they are down.

Why don't we have a moderation policy that says something like: Don't be a troll or spam the board. Be respectful. The larger community makes banning decisions. You will be banned if you do not play nice.

I'd love this...but wouldn't it be nice if our society could live by just a few rules.......

New State of Minnesota Laws

 "don't kill"

 "don't steal"

 "be nice"

Well, the truth is that I only really care about ice cream. :smile:

No joke!