That makes me wonder whether if the word choices this time are for the same reasons as then... if that is the case, vultures was meaningless-- just to rhyme with sculptures which was the location clue.
I know I have heard from a LOT of people "it can't be on the state fairgrounds."
But WHY? And how do we know? Because the state fair police tell diggers it can't and that they have to leave? Well, didn't Roseville police do the same thing when it was at CP?
Because it isn't public property? Then who owns it? I live in Falcon Heights and the biggest bulk of our land is the U St Paul campus and the Fairgrounds and they are both tax exempt. I believe the Fairgrounds IS public property-- it is just managed by a private group.
I would think Clue 1 indicating fair type stuff could just get us to the area, but with 2 clues it doesn't seem like it would be just to get us around there but to a different location.
OK- I just went over and read Young Timer's post about CC on the PP board (I have been avoiding that site) after reading the earlier comments here.... absolutely HYSTERICAL. PilotHatsGuy-- thanks for the laugh. You cracked me up.
They probably knew each other then, because my father was the paymaster and he told us about how he had an armed soldier accompany him to the post office to pick up the payroll. Once again, small world!
He says "park". I'm going to be very disappointed if it is a piece of land that does not end in "park" for the name. For me, this excludes the fairgrounds (even Baldwin Park), a parkway, or any other piece of public land that does end in park.
Last year they told us public land in Ramsey county and it was in a park in Saint Paul... this year they tell us park, I hope they don't mislead, it should be in a park.
the nutshell explanation: the fairgrounds haven't been public property for a long long time. the rules state the medallion is hidden on public land in ramsey county. since the fairgrounds aren't considered public land, they're off limits.
the longer explanation: state law holds that without special dispensation from the legislature, once roads are opened up for public use, which technically the fairgrounds are, they are forever for the use of the public. tcechnically, that loophole could be exploited, but i'm more likely to find the puck from here at home than the pp is to use that potential loophole.
This is the non-profit organization that carries a 501 (c)3 designation so that would explain the tax exempt status.
The history of the fair, found on this website is:
Fair History
After four years of territorial fairs, the first Minnesota State Fair was held in 1859 near what became downtown Minneapolis, the year after Minnesota was granted statehood.
During the fair's early years, the site of the exposition changed annually with stops in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Rochester, Red Wing, Winona and Owatonna. In the 1870s and early 1880s, civic groups from both St. Paul and Minneapolis worked relentlessly to provide a permanent home for the fair in their respective cities. The Minnesota State Fair finally found a permanent home at its present location, midway between the Twin Cities when the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners donated their 210-acre poor farm to the State Agricultural Society, the governing body of the State Fair.
Secure in its new surroundings, the Minnesota State Fair began to grow. Physically, the fairgrounds blossomed to 320 acres. Architecturally, it is home for many historically-significant structures including the Arts Center, Progress Center, Grandstand and Coliseum (formerly known as the Hippodrome).
An important change in the State Fair over the years has been in the attractions offered to fair visitors. The character of early fairs was dominated by agricultural exhibits and competitions, reflecting its original purpose of encouraging farming in the state. While agriculture is still the primary focus, the scope of activities has broadened to include large-scale entertainment features, technological and industrial exhibits and scores of education and government institutions.
Since its inception, the fair has been held every year with only five exceptions: in 1861 and 1862 due to the Civil War and Dakota Indian Conflict, in 1893 because of scheduling conflicts with the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, in 1945 due to war-time fuel shortages, and in 1946 due to a polio epidemic.
From the History of the State Fair-- The Minnesota State Fair finally found a permanent home at its present location, midway between the Twin Cities when the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners donated their 210-acre poor farm to the State Agricultural Society, the governing body of the State Fair.
From Minnesota Statues concerning Chapter 37. State Agricultural Society; State Fair
37.13 OWNERSHIP OF MONEY AND PROPERTY; CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS.
Subdivision 1.Use of money.The state owns all money and other property of the society in the name of the society and there may be no division of its assets among society members. Money received by the society must be used for holding its annual fair and for other exhibitions or expositions the society holds, for the improvement of the fairgrounds, for the payment of expenses, premiums, and purses, for the acquisition of real and personal property, for the use and benefit of the society, and for furnishing attractions and amusements the board of managers considers necessary for the success of its fairs and other exhibitions and expositions.
according to this, the fairgrounds, which according to ramsey county property records are owned by the minnesota state agricultural society, are indeed public land.
Section 1:
The State Agricultural Society is a public corporation. The conveyance to the state of the land in Ramsey County described as Southeast Quarter (SE 1/4) of Section Twenty-one (21) and East half (E 1/2) of East half (E 1/2) of Southwest Quarter (SW 1/4), Section Twenty-one (21), Township Twenty-nine (29), Range Twenty-three (23), is confirmed. Anything in that conveyance to the contrary notwithstanding, the state holds that land and any other property known and used as the "State Fairgrounds" forever for the following public purposes: (1) exhibiting under the management and control of the society, at annual fairs and at other times determined by the society, the agricultural, stock-breeding, horticultural, mining, mechanical, industrial, and other products and resources of the state, including proper exhibits and expositions of the arts, human skills, and sciences; and (2) other uses and purposes determined by the State Agricultural Society, including the leasing of parts of the State Fairgrounds. The society shall not lease any part of the State Fairgrounds if the lessee is going to compete with an existing established business of auto racing within a radius of 40 miles, except during the operation of the state fair and all other public exhibitions pertinent to expositions of human art, industry, or skill. Neither the state nor the society shall ever charge or encumber this property. Any part of the State Fairgrounds which is within the boundaries of a city or other political subdivision of the state is detached from the city or political subdivision.Nothing in this section exempts otherwise taxable property on the fairgrounds or the fairgrounds itself from real and personal property taxes pursuant to chapters 272 to 275 and 471.
emphasis mine.
make of it what you will. that said, the second portion of statute that i highlighted seems to indicate that while public land in ramsey county, it is no longer in ramsey county, as directed by law.
OK-- thanks for the help and answers everyone. It just kept popping up in my mind that if somehow it WAS allowed and the CW knew that the masses believed it wasn't, the it would be a REALLY great place to hide it. :grin:
Thanks, Ares-- I saw that same document which is where I got some of the info about the property. I read it as you seem to have-- which is that maybe it really is public. That doesn't mean it would be hidden there, especially not with the "park" reference this year (although according to the Fairgrounds map, there are 3 regions referred to as "parks"). I would just like to know for SURE if it is in or out of play.
A few years ago people thought it was at the Fair and the PP made a specikal announcement saying it couldn't and wouldn't be there. So the PP considers it off limits.
From my 2010 State Fair Media Kit: "The Minnesota State Fair is defined by law as a public corporation and a quasi-state agency. The Fair receives no appropriations of any kind from any government agency and is completely self-supporting...[then talks about the MN State Agricultural Society]...In addition to financing the annual production of the fair, the State Agricultural Society is responsible for all capital work and maintenance of the 320-acre fairgrounds, which is classified as state property."
like i pointed out, the key phrase in that statute is the one that cedes the land from any city or political subdivision, effectively creating a county unto itself as an enclave within ramsey county. while, by statute, it is public land, also by statute it isn't in ramsey county, which per the hunt rules places it out of bounds.
Anyone else google Ford ad campaigns "when men were men"?
OgilvyAdvertising has created these action packed print ads for the new Ford Ranger. In a throwback to a time when men were men and adventure was lurking at every turn, the ads show the Ranger as the vehicle to step up to the challenge!
Dated January 25,2010... 1 year ago today. Wern't Rangers the last of the Ford's made at the St. Paul plant?
The state fair is a quasi-state agency. It's part of the Dept of Ag but is independently run and funded 100% by revenues they bring in (and has been since like the 40s) Arguably it is "public" property, but in reality it's not. They have their own security and the property is only open to the public 6-11 each day. So you go there and dig, security will toss you.
It's that way,because it's the "state" fair grounds, and is available for use by any of the counties within the state of MN. In part it's a way to eliminate the need to draw public dollars from Ramsey exclusively to maintain it. It also makes it a loop for jurisdictions for things like voting, so it doesn't fall under one person (goverment figure head) jurisdiction (i.e. like a city supervisor, when issues arise. We have something similar to this here in Sonoma County with our County FG, because we share it with Marin County, and they have to share costs. etc.
According to Mappy's book, the south entrance is routinely closed in winter. He also says in the book, that he has seen the north entrance closed on account of bad weather because it is so steep, and needs to be sanded because cars have troubles getting up or down.
The glen piece of the clue gave me a couple thoughts related to the parks we scouted out tonight.
Highland would be a stretch for an area that could be considered a den in the main open areas of the park. I need to think about that more.
Newell has the same issue except for the areas mostly to the Pierce Butler side and the Fairview side of the park building and the more eastern end of the park that is wooded hill.
Como's "glen" could be the area in front of the conservatory. That area also is home to the frog pond - even mentioned in one of the videos. Because that park has some rolling hills, there could be other areas as well.
Was that stone structure to the lake side of the frog pond built by the WPA?
According to the Ramsey County Birding report REGULAR BIRDS: Peregrine Falcons nest just north of the park at the locks. Great Horned, Barred and Eastern Screech Owls can be found in the Park. Thrushes and warblers are common in migration
what's funny about that is that one of the two flags by 35e at the river isn't in the right spot. it should be up by 35e and the railroad tracks. i can't remember which year it is, but its the one that says "mississippi freeway".
But WHY? And how do we know? Because the state fair police tell diggers it can't and that they have to leave? Well, didn't Roseville police do the same thing when it was at CP?
Because it isn't public property? Then who owns it? I live in Falcon Heights and the biggest bulk of our land is the U St Paul campus and the Fairgrounds and they are both tax exempt. I believe the Fairgrounds IS public property-- it is just managed by a private group.
I would think Clue 1 indicating fair type stuff could just get us to the area, but with 2 clues it doesn't seem like it would be just to get us around there but to a different location.
Just my 2 cents.
Make your own decisions, of course.
'Chestnut Gentle' anagrams all kinds of things, including...
Select Tenth Gun
Lunches Get Tent
Lengthen Cutest
Neglect The Nuts
Gulches Net Tent
Cent Glue Tenth
Clung Sheet Tent
I thought these were interesting:
Cutest Glen Then
Chest Get Tunnel
Clue Gents Tenth
Hunt Select Gent
Hunt Elect Gents
the longer explanation: state law holds that without special dispensation from the legislature, once roads are opened up for public use, which technically the fairgrounds are, they are forever for the use of the public. tcechnically, that loophole could be exploited, but i'm more likely to find the puck from here at home than the pp is to use that potential loophole.
---Select Tenth Gun---
WHERE IS ESD!!!
Tramping hill and dell, you may hear tell
About the contests waged of yore
Much of the history remains a mystery
Which we hope to bring to the fore
This is the non-profit organization that carries a 501 (c)3 designation so that would explain the tax exempt status.
The history of the fair, found on this website is:
Fair History
After four years of territorial fairs, the first Minnesota State Fair was held in 1859 near what became downtown Minneapolis, the year after Minnesota was granted statehood.
During the fair's early years, the site of the exposition changed annually with stops in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Rochester, Red Wing, Winona and Owatonna. In the 1870s and early 1880s, civic groups from both St. Paul and Minneapolis worked relentlessly to provide a permanent home for the fair in their respective cities. The Minnesota State Fair finally found a permanent home at its present location, midway between the Twin Cities when the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners donated their 210-acre poor farm to the State Agricultural Society, the governing body of the State Fair.
Secure in its new surroundings, the Minnesota State Fair began to grow. Physically, the fairgrounds blossomed to 320 acres. Architecturally, it is home for many historically-significant structures including the Arts Center, Progress Center, Grandstand and Coliseum (formerly known as the Hippodrome).
An important change in the State Fair over the years has been in the attractions offered to fair visitors. The character of early fairs was dominated by agricultural exhibits and competitions, reflecting its original purpose of encouraging farming in the state. While agriculture is still the primary focus, the scope of activities has broadened to include large-scale entertainment features, technological and industrial exhibits and scores of education and government institutions.
Since its inception, the fair has been held every year with only five exceptions: in 1861 and 1862 due to the Civil War and Dakota Indian Conflict, in 1893 because of scheduling conflicts with the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, in 1945 due to war-time fuel shortages, and in 1946 due to a polio epidemic.
For more information please e-mail history@mnstatefair.org.
From the History of the State Fair-- The Minnesota State Fair finally found a permanent home at its present location, midway between the Twin Cities when the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners donated their 210-acre poor farm to the State Agricultural Society, the governing body of the State Fair.
From Minnesota Statues concerning Chapter 37. State Agricultural Society; State Fair
37.13 OWNERSHIP OF MONEY AND PROPERTY; CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS.
Subdivision 1.Use of money.The state owns all money and other property of the society in the name of the society and there may be no division of its assets among society members. Money received by the society must be used for holding its annual fair and for other exhibitions or expositions the society holds, for the improvement of the fairgrounds, for the payment of expenses, premiums, and purses, for the acquisition of real and personal property, for the use and benefit of the society, and for furnishing attractions and amusements the board of managers considers necessary for the success of its fairs and other exhibitions and expositions.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=37&view=chapter
according to this, the fairgrounds, which according to ramsey county property records are owned by the minnesota state agricultural society, are indeed public land.
Section 1:
The State Agricultural Society is a public corporation. The conveyance to the state of the land in Ramsey County described as Southeast Quarter (SE 1/4) of Section Twenty-one (21) and East half (E 1/2) of East half (E 1/2) of Southwest Quarter (SW 1/4), Section Twenty-one (21), Township Twenty-nine (29), Range Twenty-three (23), is confirmed. Anything in that conveyance to the contrary notwithstanding, the state holds that land and any other property known and used as the "State Fairgrounds" forever for the following public purposes: (1) exhibiting under the management and control of the society, at annual fairs and at other times determined by the society, the agricultural, stock-breeding, horticultural, mining, mechanical, industrial, and other products and resources of the state, including proper exhibits and expositions of the arts, human skills, and sciences; and (2) other uses and purposes determined by the State Agricultural Society, including the leasing of parts of the State Fairgrounds. The society shall not lease any part of the State Fairgrounds if the lessee is going to compete with an existing established business of auto racing within a radius of 40 miles, except during the operation of the state fair and all other public exhibitions pertinent to expositions of human art, industry, or skill. Neither the state nor the society shall ever charge or encumber this property. Any part of the State Fairgrounds which is within the boundaries of a city or other political subdivision of the state is detached from the city or political subdivision.Nothing in this section exempts otherwise taxable property on the fairgrounds or the fairgrounds itself from real and personal property taxes pursuant to chapters 272 to 275 and 471.
emphasis mine.
make of it what you will. that said, the second portion of statute that i highlighted seems to indicate that while public land in ramsey county, it is no longer in ramsey county, as directed by law.
What the hell you mean DO NOT consent to search?!?!?!
A "Quasi-state agency." Confusing!
:smile:
Good night. I am going to go nap until clue time.
OgilvyAdvertising has created these action packed print ads for the new Ford Ranger. In a throwback to a time when men were men and adventure was lurking at every turn, the ads show the Ranger as the vehicle to step up to the challenge!
Dated January 25,2010... 1 year ago today. Wern't Rangers the last of the Ford's made at the St. Paul plant?
Maybe they just haven't gotten around to it yet?
Highland would be a stretch for an area that could be considered a den in the main open areas of the park. I need to think about that more.
Newell has the same issue except for the areas mostly to the Pierce Butler side and the Fairview side of the park building and the more eastern end of the park that is wooded hill.
Como's "glen" could be the area in front of the conservatory. That area also is home to the frog pond - even mentioned in one of the videos. Because that park has some rolling hills, there could be other areas as well.
Was that stone structure to the lake side of the frog pond built by the WPA?
http://www.mnwintertreasurehunt.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=c95dc9f40917f8d1b6d353f5c4f6f96b;wwwRedirect
scroll all the way down. shows where all the pucks have been found years past. Something to look at visually while wait for clue 4.
http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/parks/NaturalResources/BirdingInRamseyCounty.htm
This is good check it out with the date
http://www.ogilvy.co.uk/ogilvy-and-mather-advertising/blood-sweat-tears-go-into-new-ford-ranger-ads/
If you check out Hiding Location Map for the Pioneer Press Treasure Hunt this one was done based on past information and input from finders using GPS technology.
what's funnier is that it's ma press's map.
the one on the coolercrew site is more accurate.
Hope its sooner tonight.