Personally I tend to believe there is just one truth, whatever it may be. God either exists or he doesn't. He either has quality A or he doesn't. And so on.
So I actually have a bit of a hard time being completely accepting of other religions. If I pick any three religions, at least two of them are going to be wrong about something all three disagree on. Maybe I can't say with certainty which two are wrong, but to say that I know at least two of these groups are perpetuating mistaken ideas and that's just fine with me seems to be wrong. I've always actually found it a little bit puzzling that religion is seen as something that can only exist through faith. Why hasn't a more scientific approach been taken with it? Not using traditional scientific methods necessarily as much of the "evidence" does not meet scientific standards, but at least a scientific approach.
Religion tends to be the opposite of science in that it usually assumes it knows the truth (through revelation) and goes from there, trying to explain what it sees. Science assumes no knowledge to begin with and takes what it sees and tries to find theories to explain it. So why don't people start by assuming they know nothing for certain about God, and look at the evidence and see where it leads. Descartes attempted something along those lines and came up with one hardcore fact: "I think, therefore I am." He went on to try and deduce God and came up with some conclusions such as God must exist, for he being so much greater than we, how could we have ever conceived him to begin with?" You may or may not agree with that, but I like the approach, and I think if humanity had been doing that sort of thing all along, we may have actually gotten somewhere by now. Perhaps we would even know the truth.
just because someone is roman catholic doesn't necessarily mean they agree with every aspect of church doctrine.
If they believe the doctrine that the Pope is their superior, both in position and in knowledge of God's ways, then they should follow what he says to stay in alignment with their own beliefs. If they don't believe that, then does it really matter what he says anyway? I guess I just don't get too stressed out if the Pope encourages his followers to adhere to their beliefs. If he told them to do something that I thought violated the tenets of Christianity (like bomb abortion clinics or something) then I'd make a very big deal about the abuse of power to further specific agendas.
Two books that I have read that I found most interesting were "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "The Hiram Key". They're not so much about spirituality as they are about the historical origins of much of today's organized religions. Having a perspective on how various groups came to believe what they do can maybe help you decide what is and isn't worth believing.
I also believe that we should all live what we believe, to do otherwise is self-hypocrisy (and in my opinion leads to depression and other dis-eases). If you are a doctor who believes abortion is morally wrong, but perform abortions because its part of your job, wouldn't you have that nagging little voice in the back of your mind-constantly questioning your morality? You have to answer to yourself, and "your god" first.
The best advice I can give anyone is to know (learn, find out) what you believe, and why, and try to live by your beliefs. "To Thyne Own Self Be True"
side note-this has nothing to do with my own personal beliefs on abortion. While I myself would not have one for reasons of my own, I do see the necessitiy in certain cases. Ultimately it should be an individual choice. And as for the life of the baby- the "body" may die, but rest assured that a "soul" is never wasted and will have its chance to come into this life. JMO (Just My Opinion)
Frosti, Randy, Lance- The most helpful book I've read is "The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts (or anything else by her), should be able to find at your local library in the non-fiction section. Its somewhat along the lines of "Celestine Prohecy"
I've got a book or two you could borrow if you want, Frosti.
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Scribe.... have you gone to woodland hills??? Greg Boyd's Church??? I loved his book and recommend it to anyone to read.... Letters from a Skeptic.... The dude went to a local Bible College in St. Paul...ABI...and has a ThD from Yale or princeton too....it really is a heart warming read...
Artemis...I will check her work out....I like what you said about Thomas...how true
Randy,I have not been to Woodland Hills but have heard many good things about it. I have been to Speak The Word a couple of times to see their Easter program(which was great) and to see Joyce Meyers when she was in town. The church itself was a bit too big and stadium like for my taste every Sunday and it seemed a bit "cold" and unwelcoming. Maybe because it was so big......also there is a big push there on money and thats fine......I know what the scriptures say on tithing but I felt that was a main theme there. Whatever I will go there when my favorite ministries come to visit.
Check out woodland hills...no pressure...the worship is awesome and moving....not stadium like (old builders square building)...no big money push....i have only been there once...but may go more often....my nephews go to some of the youth functions and say it is great...they have like 4 services and are always jammed packed....I live right near there
Randy send me the address or their web page and I will plan on it! I miss fun-filled joyful worship! We go to St.Peter Claver Catholic Church and it comes close but it is still soooo reserved! Remember I grew up in southeast Missouri........church was fun there!
This was forwarded to me in an email...I dreamt about it last night...what a coincidence it's post 220...
"Subject: Is there ANY significance to this? No, but it's interesting.
At 8:02 p.m. on Feb. 20 this year will mark an historic moment in time.
It will not be noted by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing of bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will happen which has not occurred for 1,000 years and will never happen again.
As the clock ticks over from 8:01 p.m. on Wednesday, Feb. 20, time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002,2002,2002, or, to be more precise, 20:02, 20/02, 2002.
This historic event will never have the same poignancy as the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month which marks Armistice Day, but it is an event which has only ever happened once before, and is something which will never be repeated.
The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock, at 10:01 a.m. on Jan. 10, 1001.
And because the clock only goes up to 23:59, it is something that will never happen again."
Yay indeed! And I have a child-free weekend ahead of me with runningchick in Alexandria. A romantic weekend getaway, including hotel with fireplace and whirlpool in room. I have a feeling this day's gonna go slow.
I had the weirdest dream...sort of a back and forth of one group Threatening a second larger group (of which I was a part)and the second group defending themselves and avoiding the threat. While escaping the threat again, a man told me that the real threat was that when the ice melts its rigged to explode. Then I woke up.
I don't believe in reincarnation and this is why. It seems a lot of what we are is determined by our genes. A lot of what isn't determined by our physical bodies is the product of our upbringing and later our experiences as adults. So if you strip a person of their possessions, their memories, their name, their heritage, their body, and everything else that we know that makes someone the unique individual they are, what is left over? What is it exactly that carries over from one life to the next? Most of the time when I ask that people say "the soul" but what is your soul exactly that it can be separated from everything that went into making you the person you are? If I were for example the reincarnation Napoleon, what is it exactly that Napoleon and I would have in common that you could try and say we were really the same person?
I believe souls are unique entities that are shaped by their experience on Earth and then they move on forever maintain the identity they once possessed.
What is it exactly that carries over from one life to the next?
I would also answer the soul,
but what is your soul exactly that it can be separated from everything that went into making you the person you are?....I believe souls are unique entities that are shaped by their experience on Earth and then they move on forever maintain the identity they once possessed.
I believe that souls are multi-dimensional entities, each evolving towards its fulfillment through experienceS in all its existances, maintaining and adding to each individual identity they once possessed. It doesn't seem logical to me to think that one short experience defines a soul's identity "forever". Life is in a constant cycle of change-birth, growth, death, repeat- never static. It doesn't make sense (to me) that a soul would remain static once their "one" life was complete.
If I were for example the reincarnation Napoleon, what is it exactly that Napoleon and I would have in common that you could try and say we were really the same person?
Again I would answer the soul. I don't think its necissary to have personality traits or life choices in common, as in my opinion we live many lives, and it would be more beneficial to choose a variety of different lives to gain a broader perspective. This goes along with the theory that we each(individually)choose the lives we come into-place, time, parents, situations, challenges, themes- writing the general script of our life, leaving room for options and variables. We could choose one life or many lives(on earth or other places), depending on our "unique" personality.
Then there's that thing about the simultaneous nature of time...
And then there's the number problem. I've heard different claims of refutations of this, but some statisticians say there are more living people in the world right now than dead people. And even if it's not entirely true, it probably is true for at least the period of recorded history. So every person alive today could have lived at most once before within the last 5,000 years.
Funny thing about coincidences...Just the other day my 10 year old asked me about coming back as an animal after dying and the reincarnation theory. Somewhat of what AW just touched upon...there are so many people on this Earth right now and there were not this many people before. We keep getting more populated not staying consistant so how can we be reincarnating? I told her about the sacred cows and India and other animals...she said she would NOT want to come back as a stud! (male horse) hehehe
Which brings the question...IF YOU COULD (but you can't) WHAT ANIMAL WOULD YOU COME BACK AS AND WHY?
oh, i so wanna post a "useless facts" email i got a while ago here. i just gotta find it is all. the one that has the fact about a pig's orgasm lasting 30 minutes.
I've seen that, and I thought about being a pig, but then everyone would go around saying "he's such a pig" and I don't know if I'd want to be hearing that all the time.
Personally I tend to believe there is just one truth, whatever it may be. God either exists or he doesn't. He either has quality A or he doesn't. And so on.
So I actually have a bit of a hard time being completely accepting of other religions. If I pick any three religions, at least two of them are going to be wrong about something all three disagree on. Maybe I can't say with certainty which two are wrong, but to say that I know at least two of these groups are perpetuating mistaken ideas and that's just fine with me seems to be wrong. I've always actually found it a little bit puzzling that religion is seen as something that can only exist through faith. Why hasn't a more scientific approach been taken with it? Not using traditional scientific methods necessarily as much of the "evidence" does not meet scientific standards, but at least a scientific approach.
Religion tends to be the opposite of science in that it usually assumes it knows the truth (through revelation) and goes from there, trying to explain what it sees. Science assumes no knowledge to begin with and takes what it sees and tries to find theories to explain it. So why don't people start by assuming they know nothing for certain about God, and look at the evidence and see where it leads. Descartes attempted something along those lines and came up with one hardcore fact: "I think, therefore I am." He went on to try and deduce God and came up with some conclusions such as God must exist, for he being so much greater than we, how could we have ever conceived him to begin with?" You may or may not agree with that, but I like the approach, and I think if humanity had been doing that sort of thing all along, we may have actually gotten somewhere by now. Perhaps we would even know the truth.
just because someone is roman catholic doesn't necessarily mean they agree with every aspect of church doctrine.
If they believe the doctrine that the Pope is their superior, both in position and in knowledge of God's ways, then they should follow what he says to stay in alignment with their own beliefs. If they don't believe that, then does it really matter what he says anyway? I guess I just don't get too stressed out if the Pope encourages his followers to adhere to their beliefs. If he told them to do something that I thought violated the tenets of Christianity (like bomb abortion clinics or something) then I'd make a very big deal about the abuse of power to further specific agendas.
Two books that I have read that I found most interesting were "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "The Hiram Key". They're not so much about spirituality as they are about the historical origins of much of today's organized religions. Having a perspective on how various groups came to believe what they do can maybe help you decide what is and isn't worth believing.
well said, allison, regarding post 204.
Very well said Allison! I have also read "The Hiram Key".
I also recommend "Letters From A Skeptic" by Gregory A., Dr. Boyd, Edward K. Boyd.
I also recommend "Letters From A Skeptic" by Gregory A., Dr. Boyd, Edward K. Boyd.
I've read parts of this book and it seemed very good.
My doctor told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to
finish what I start.
So far today, I have finished 2 bags of chips and a
chocolate cake . . .
I feel better already.
I also believe that we should all live what we believe, to do otherwise is self-hypocrisy (and in my opinion leads to depression and other dis-eases). If you are a doctor who believes abortion is morally wrong, but perform abortions because its part of your job, wouldn't you have that nagging little voice in the back of your mind-constantly questioning your morality? You have to answer to yourself, and "your god" first.
The best advice I can give anyone is to know (learn, find out) what you believe, and why, and try to live by your beliefs. "To Thyne Own Self Be True"
side note-this has nothing to do with my own personal beliefs on abortion. While I myself would not have one for reasons of my own, I do see the necessitiy in certain cases.
Ultimately it should be an individual choice.
And as for the life of the baby- the "body" may die, but rest assured that a "soul" is never wasted and will have its chance to come into this life. JMO (Just My Opinion)
Ian! LOL,You always sneak one in when I'm typing away!
Frosti, Randy, Lance- The most helpful book I've read is "The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts (or anything else by her), should be able to find at your local library in the non-fiction section. Its somewhat along the lines of "Celestine Prohecy"
I've got a book or two you could borrow if you want, Frosti.
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
from The Gospel of Thomas
Thanks for the titles everybody, keep them coming. I might take you up on that loan Artemis.
IAN ... you are a riot!!!
Scribe.... have you gone to woodland hills??? Greg Boyd's Church??? I loved his book and recommend it to anyone to read.... Letters from a Skeptic.... The dude went to a local Bible College in St. Paul...ABI...and has a ThD from Yale or princeton too....it really is a heart warming read...
Artemis...I will check her work out....I like what you said about Thomas...how true
Randy,I have not been to Woodland Hills but have heard many good things about it. I have been to Speak The Word a couple of times to see their Easter program(which was great) and to see Joyce Meyers when she was in town.
The church itself was a bit too big and stadium like for my taste every Sunday and it seemed a bit "cold" and unwelcoming.
Maybe because it was so big......also there is a big push there on money and thats fine......I know what the scriptures say on tithing but I felt that was a main theme there. Whatever I will go there when my favorite ministries come to visit.
Check out woodland hills...no pressure...the worship is awesome and moving....not stadium like (old builders square building)...no big money push....i have only been there once...but may go more often....my nephews go to some of the youth functions and say it is great...they have like 4 services and are always jammed packed....I live right near there
Randy send me the address or their web page and I will plan on it!
I miss fun-filled joyful worship! We go to St.Peter Claver Catholic Church and it comes close but it is still soooo reserved!
Remember I grew up in southeast Missouri........church was fun there!
http://www.gpsinformation.net/exe/life.jpg
This was forwarded to me in an email...I dreamt about it last night...what a coincidence it's post 220...
"Subject: Is there ANY significance to this? No, but it's interesting.
At 8:02 p.m. on Feb. 20 this year will mark an historic moment in time.
It will not be noted by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing of
bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will
happen which has not occurred for 1,000 years and will never happen again.
As the clock ticks over from 8:01 p.m. on Wednesday, Feb. 20, time
will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002,2002,2002, or,
to be more precise, 20:02, 20/02, 2002.
This historic event will never have the same poignancy as the 11th
hour of the 11th day of the 11th month which marks Armistice Day, but it
is an event which has only ever happened once before, and is something
which will never be repeated.
The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was
long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock, at 10:01
a.m. on Jan. 10, 1001.
And because the clock only goes up to 23:59, it is something that
will never happen again."
But since in the US we mark time as 2/20, this will only be true for the people in Europe. :-P
20:02, 20/02, 2002
Very cool!
AW, don't be a spoilsport! :)
Morning Dal.
Yay indeed! And I have a child-free weekend ahead of me with runningchick in Alexandria. A romantic weekend getaway, including hotel with fireplace and whirlpool in room. I have a feeling this day's gonna go slow.
A romantic weekend getaway, including hotel with fireplace and whirlpool in room.
That's awesome! I know you'll enjoy every minute of it, but will be glad to see the kids when you get back.
Yep, it's always good to get away, but it's always good to get back to them too.
I had the weirdest dream...sort of a back and forth of one group Threatening a second larger group (of which I was a part)and the second group defending themselves and avoiding the threat. While escaping the threat again, a man told me that the real threat was that when the ice melts its rigged to explode. Then I woke up.
Beware of melting ice that explodes!
is that kinda like concrete exploding in the summer when the road gets too hot, artemis?
Wow.
Today's Question: Do you believe in reincarnation?
I don't believe in reincarnation and this is why. It seems a lot of what we are is determined by our genes. A lot of what isn't determined by our physical bodies is the product of our upbringing and later our experiences as adults. So if you strip a person of their possessions, their memories, their name, their heritage, their body, and everything else that we know that makes someone the unique individual they are, what is left over? What is it exactly that carries over from one life to the next? Most of the time when I ask that people say "the soul" but what is your soul exactly that it can be separated from everything that went into making you the person you are? If I were for example the reincarnation Napoleon, what is it exactly that Napoleon and I would have in common that you could try and say we were really the same person?
I believe souls are unique entities that are shaped by their experience on Earth and then they move on forever maintain the identity they once possessed.
What is it exactly that carries over from one life to the next?
I would also answer the soul,
but what is your soul exactly that it can be separated from everything that went into making you the person you are?....I believe souls are unique entities that are shaped by their experience on Earth and then they move on forever maintain the identity they once possessed.
I believe that souls are multi-dimensional entities, each evolving towards its fulfillment through experienceS in all its existances, maintaining and adding to each individual identity they once possessed. It doesn't seem logical to me to think that one short experience defines a soul's identity "forever". Life is in a constant cycle of change-birth, growth, death, repeat- never static. It doesn't make sense (to me) that a soul would remain static once their "one" life was complete.
If I were for example the reincarnation Napoleon, what is it exactly that Napoleon and I would have in common that you could try and say we were really the same person?
Again I would answer the soul. I don't think its necissary to have personality traits or life choices in common, as in my opinion we live many lives, and it would be more beneficial to choose a variety of different lives to gain a broader perspective. This goes along with the theory that we each(individually)choose the lives we come into-place, time, parents, situations, challenges, themes- writing the general script of our life, leaving room for options and variables. We could choose one life or many lives(on earth or other places), depending on our "unique" personality.
Then there's that thing about the simultaneous nature of time...
And then there's the number problem. I've heard different claims of refutations of this, but some statisticians say there are more living people in the world right now than dead people. And even if it's not entirely true, it probably is true for at least the period of recorded history. So every person alive today could have lived at most once before within the last 5,000 years.
Funny thing about coincidences...Just the other day my 10 year old asked me about coming back as an animal after dying and the reincarnation theory. Somewhat of what AW just touched upon...there are so many people on this Earth right now and there were not this many people before. We keep getting more populated not staying consistant so how can we be reincarnating? I told her about the sacred cows and India and other animals...she said she would NOT want to come back as a stud! (male horse) hehehe
Which brings the question...IF YOU COULD (but you can't) WHAT ANIMAL WOULD YOU COME BACK AS AND WHY?
I hear some monkeys have sex 30 times a day.
So you want to be a monkey? Which type? Chimpanzee, Ape...Bafoon?
Or here's another question. Does a belief in reincarnation contradict a belief in astrology?
I think I'd like to be a Tamarin. One of those little agile ones with the big mustaches.
I hear some monkeys have sex 30 times a day.
oh, i so wanna post a "useless facts" email i got a while ago here. i just gotta find it is all. the one that has the fact about a pig's orgasm lasting 30 minutes.
I've seen that, and I thought about being a pig, but then everyone would go around saying "he's such a pig" and I don't know if I'd want to be hearing that all the time.
but you would be clean all the time :)
Plus I'd feel really guilty about eating ham, and I really like ham.
Me too :), I would feel bad to think I may be eating AW when I eat ham.
not gonna touch it. not gonna touch it.
"not gonna touch it. not gonna touch it."
Does it have something to do with tasting salty? Because I've heard pineapple gives it a sweeter taste.
I've heard pineapple gives it a sweeter taste.
OMG. Not gonna touch it, not gonna touch it!
would that be pineapple rings or chunks?
something to do with tasting salty? Because I've heard pineapple gives it a sweeter taste.
That is so funny...another coincidence...Mark and I were just talking about that Saturday.
So lets see...putting pinapple rings on AW...and juicing him with the baster.
A pineapple glaze. Usually crushed pineapple works best for that as it doesn't slide off the ham as easily.
What did you think I was talking about Frosti? ;-) hehe
You and your husband were talking about covering me in pineapple rings and juicing me with a baster? Ok, now you have *me* worried.
putting pinapple rings on AW...and juicing him with the baster.
I don't think it's me you need to worry about...