so I guess a 12 yr old little girl doesn't matter as much as a fetus? imagine yourself as that little girl.....no I can't sleep over cuz I'm pregnant with my fathers child. and as far as adoption goes, what happens in 18 years when this child decides to look for it's birth mother? the mother will be devistated cuz the memories come flooding back after all those years of trying to forget, and the child finds out that they were concieved from a rape, sounds like a great life for both doesn't it? some people need to stop and think about what these women may be going through before they make their accusations, she may be going through a very difficult situation and you just make it worse.
When a couple seeking to adopt a white baby is charged $35,000 and a couple seeking a black baby is charged $4,000, the image that comes to the Rev. Ken Hutcherson's mind is of a practice that was outlawed in America nearly 150 years ago — the buying and selling of human beings.
so I guess a 12 yr old little girl doesn't matter as much as a fetus? imagine yourself as that little girl.....no I can't sleep over cuz I'm pregnant with my fathers child. Is it still a good reason to KILL the unborn child?and as far as adoption goes, what happens in 18 years when this child decides to look for it's birth mother? So what?the mother will be devistated cuz the memories come flooding back after all those years of trying to forget, and the child finds out that they were concieved from a rape, sounds like a great life for both doesn't it? Sounds like that is just tough. Does she really think "let me KILL my unborn child so I won't FEEL bad years from now?"some people need to stop and think about what these women may be going through before they make their accusations, she may be going through a very difficult situation and you just make it worse. Stop and think what the unborn child is going through. Think about the dimemberment limb from limb if a woman goes through with the KILLING.
jethro, get off your high horse and answer this question: which is better to have in society, one person with a fucked up head or 2, the second possibly having genetic problems due to said incest? i'll vote for one any day of the week.
not in the least. but you've already got one person with a hell of a lot of emotional trauma due to the incest at hand. you don't need to bring another one into the world, who neither asked to be conceived, was desired to be conceived by the person carrying the child, nor was conceived by some voluntary act of said person.
and do me one favor. never make the mistake of twisting my words to fit your convoluted view of the opinions of those who would argue with you.
you don't need to bring another one into the world, who neither asked to be conceived, was desired to be conceived by the person carrying the child, nor was conceived by some voluntary act of said person. Should we murder anyone that was conceived through involuntary acts?
and do me one favor. never make the mistake of twisting my words to fit your convoluted view of the opinions of those who would argue with you. I twisted nothing. I asked a question.
you'll just have to forgive me for believing that the unborn child is not a separate life until it has a reasonable chance at survival outside the womb. and thus i don't consider it to be murder. that said, my answer to your question is no.
and to me, you asked a question that made it look like i was saying something that i wasn't. thus twisting my words.
lemme ask you one thing. since you're a lawyer, i'm assuming you've been in a courtroom. if a judge were to ask you a question, would you respond with one?
please tell me i don't need to explain that to you. because if i do have to its gonna degenerate into something that will likely be construed as a personal attack. i don't want to have to stoop that low.
Oops ! 14 year study finds higher contraception rates in girls who use family planning services.
A 14-year study conducted in 16 areas found no evidence that family planning services reduced the pregnancy rate among girls under 16.
The findings, published in the Journal of Health Economics, is a blow to the Government's advisory group on teenage pregnancies which last year recommended that children wanting to have sexual intercourse before the legal age of consent should be able to receive the Pill and condoms at school.
Today's report found a higher conception rate in areas where a greater number of girls aged 13 to 15 visited family planning clinics.
It is a pity some people have no ssense of right or wrong or empathy for other people!
i said:
...or empathy for other people!
and you should talk? you're more concerned with the unborn than the born?
we're talking about the hypothetical 12 year old who got impregated by her father. you seem to be a lot more concerned with the plight of the unborn child she carries than with the girl herself. explain how that doesn't make any sense, because it makes sense to me. where are your priorities? i'm not saying absolutely that the unborn child should be aborted, but she ought to at least have that option.
what's scary about that is that since that's your personal belief, i can't even post a halfway reasonable argument to it that will have anything close to a chance of having an effect.
jt, we need a new topic i can argue with jethro on. :)
ok, hypothetically speaking....If your wife was pregnant and the doctor told you that if your wife tried to have this baby she would die from the complications, who would you choose?
2:1 odds says he's gonna answer your question with another question that's supposed to make you think, but doesn't because he doesn't have a valid answer to your original question.
ok, hypothetically speaking....If your wife was pregnant and the doctor told you that if your wife tried to have this baby she would die from the complications, who would you choose?
You think you understand my point of view, but apparently you don't if you can ask this question. You change the issue instead of facing it head on. Is abortion wrong or not? Do you think it is okay to kill the unborn child simply for conveience? I think the answer for several of you is yes. That tells me those that answer yes have no heart.
jethro, the world doesn't have to be black and white. and its because of people like you, who can't see the shades of grey in between, that we have to maintian the legality of abortion so that we can deal with precisely the situation that liquor lady described. let's face it, when delivering that child, if the mother dies, there's a good chance that the child will also die. so now you've got 2 deaths.
if that abortion is criminalised, you've got 2 deaths. now if you can stand by and tell that mother that she must deliver that child, and that when she does, she will die, you've got a lot less heart than i do.
jethro, the world doesn't have to be black and white. and its because of people like you, who can't see the shades of grey in between, that we have to maintian the legality of abortion so that we can deal with precisely the situation that liquor lady described. First maybe your eyes just aren't sharp enough to see that the issue IS black and white. Second, you misunderstand, and I believe deliberately so. It is a different issue if the mother's life is in danger. The issue you won't face is when the mother's life is not in danger and the mother has an abortion out of convenience.
if that abortion is criminalised, you've got 2 deaths. now if you can stand by and tell that mother that she must deliver that child, and that when she does, she will die, you've got a lot less heart than i do. No you don't understand my position. You just made an assumption on NO facts. Typical liberal thoughtlessness.
To a staunch pro-lifer, there is no alternative to a world that's black and white.
Once again you are wrong, Lundstrom. You are really good at it. It must come from plenty of practice. I see abortion as a black and white issue, but that is only one issue. Abortion is the taking of a life once it has started without any basis other than the convenience of the mother. That is wrong.
jethro, i've agreed before that using abortion as the method of birth control that its become in this country is very much a problem. and never once have you given any indication that you support abortion if the mother's life is in danger. you've presented yourself as someone who is not only against abortion, but as someone who would support the bombing of an abortion clinic in the name of saving the lives of the unborn. now if you do that, how exactly is it that the mother is to receive that abortion if there's no place to perform it at.
<getting off of my soapbox>
while you may see a distinction in issues between abortion for convenience and abortion for saving the mother's life, there are far too many who don't. because they can't make that distinction, and do treat this as a single issue, with nothing more than black and white, i see no choice but to keep abortion legal across the board.
rick, jethro does not qualify as a pro-lifer. i know he never answered the question directly, but as his statements have shown, pro-life is not a valid term to describe him.
The other side has welcomed its share of slipperiness, too.
Such as?
I don't disagree with Jethro. I believe a fetus is a life. I believe abortion is wrong. And most of all I believe people should take responsibility for their actions.
That being said, Jethro is hardly consistent in his beliefs.
jethro, you've presented yourself as someone who is not only against abortion, but as someone who would support the bombing of an abortion clinic in the name of saving the lives of the unborn. now if you do that, how exactly is it that the mother is to receive that abortion if there's no place to perform it at.
No I haven't said I would support bombing clinics. The only thing I said was that maybe a defensdant in a bombing case should be allowed to use a self defens/protection of others defense.
while you may see a distinction in issues between abortion for convenience and abortion for saving the mother's life, there are far too many who don't. because they can't make that distinction, and do treat this as a single issue, with nothing more than black and white, i see no choice but to keep abortion legal across the board.
That is a really DUMB reason to keep it legal.
rick, jethro does not qualify as a pro-lifer.....
A true pro-lifer would not support the death penalty.
A non thinking pro-lifer would not support the death penalty. A thinking pro-lifer can and many do because they understand the distinction between the unborn and someone that has had his chance in society and transgressed.
A non thinking pro-lifer would not support the death penalty. A thinking pro-lifer can and many do because they understand the distinction between the unborn and someone that has had his chance in society and transgressed.
You've got that statement all backwards.
I might believe this slippery slope hogwash if not for your, "They must be guilty if they're in jail" statements, and that's just one example of your inconsistencies.
I might believe this slippery slope hogwash if not for your, "They must be guilty if they're in jail" statements, and that's just one example of your inconsistencies.
I'm not saying conservatives can't be loved, but I bet it's difficult.
Especially by the like of you, Lundstrom.
If a conservative is trying to love a liberal, he needs to drink a lot.
so I guess a 12 yr old little girl doesn't matter as much as a fetus? imagine yourself as that little girl.....no I can't sleep over cuz I'm pregnant with my fathers child. and as far as adoption goes, what happens in 18 years when this child decides to look for it's birth mother? the mother will be devistated cuz the memories come flooding back after all those years of trying to forget, and the child finds out that they were concieved from a rape, sounds like a great life for both doesn't it? some people need to stop and think about what these women may be going through before they make their accusations, she may be going through a very difficult situation and you just make it worse.
i'm just curious to know if as a "lawyer" when he's in court and the judge asks him a question if he answers said judge with another question.
Preacher Calls Adoption Fees Discriminatory Against White Babies
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/adoption_race020312.html
When a couple seeking to adopt a white baby is charged $35,000 and a couple seeking a black baby is charged $4,000, the image that comes to the Rev. Ken Hutcherson's mind is of a practice that was outlawed in America nearly 150 years ago — the buying and selling of human beings.
so I guess a 12 yr old little girl doesn't matter as much as a fetus? imagine yourself as that little girl.....no I can't sleep over cuz I'm pregnant with my fathers child. Is it still a good reason to KILL the unborn child?and as far as adoption goes, what happens in 18 years when this child decides to look for it's birth mother? So what?the mother will be devistated cuz the memories come flooding back after all those years of trying to forget, and the child finds out that they were concieved from a rape, sounds like a great life for both doesn't it? Sounds like that is just tough. Does she really think "let me KILL my unborn child so I won't FEEL bad years from now?"some people need to stop and think about what these women may be going through before they make their accusations, she may be going through a very difficult situation and you just make it worse. Stop and think what the unborn child is going through. Think about the dimemberment limb from limb if a woman goes through with the KILLING.
jethro, get off your high horse and answer this question: which is better to have in society, one person with a fucked up head or 2, the second possibly having genetic problems due to said incest? i'll vote for one any day of the week.
So are you saying that we should kill all the people with mental or pyhsical problems?
not in the least. but you've already got one person with a hell of a lot of emotional trauma due to the incest at hand. you don't need to bring another one into the world, who neither asked to be conceived, was desired to be conceived by the person carrying the child, nor was conceived by some voluntary act of said person.
and do me one favor. never make the mistake of twisting my words to fit your convoluted view of the opinions of those who would argue with you.
you don't need to bring another one into the world, who neither asked to be conceived, was desired to be conceived by the person carrying the child, nor was conceived by some voluntary act of said person. Should we murder anyone that was conceived through involuntary acts?
and do me one favor. never make the mistake of twisting my words to fit your convoluted view of the opinions of those who would argue with you. I twisted nothing. I asked a question.
you'll just have to forgive me for believing that the unborn child is not a separate life until it has a reasonable chance at survival outside the womb. and thus i don't consider it to be murder. that said, my answer to your question is no.
and to me, you asked a question that made it look like i was saying something that i wasn't. thus twisting my words.
lemme ask you one thing. since you're a lawyer, i'm assuming you've been in a courtroom. if a judge were to ask you a question, would you respond with one?
Taking bets here on what Jethro's response will be.
what kinda odds are you giving, muskwa?
it was just a question.
Sorry, ares, too late.
It was a no-brainer anyway. :-)
It is a pity some people have no ssense of right or wrong or empathy for other people!
...or empathy for other people!
and you should talk? you're more concerned with the unborn than the born?
and you should talk? you're more concerned with the unborn than the born?
I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean?
please tell me i don't need to explain that to you. because if i do have to its gonna degenerate into something that will likely be construed as a personal attack. i don't want to have to stoop that low.
Oops ! 14 year study finds higher contraception rates in girls who use family planning services.
A 14-year study conducted in 16 areas found no evidence that family planning services reduced the pregnancy rate among girls under 16.
The findings, published in the Journal of Health Economics, is a blow to the Government's advisory group on teenage pregnancies which last year recommended that children wanting to have sexual intercourse before the legal age of consent should be able to receive the Pill and condoms at school.
Today's report found a higher conception rate in areas where a greater number of girls aged 13 to 15 visited family planning clinics.
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/03/04/npreg04.xml
I don't think you understood what you meant, ares. The only things that I thought you could have meant didn't make any sense.
you said:
It is a pity some people have no ssense of right or wrong or empathy for other people!
i said:
...or empathy for other people!
and you should talk? you're more concerned with the unborn than the born?
we're talking about the hypothetical 12 year old who got impregated by her father. you seem to be a lot more concerned with the plight of the unborn child she carries than with the girl herself. explain how that doesn't make any sense, because it makes sense to me. where are your priorities? i'm not saying absolutely that the unborn child should be aborted, but she ought to at least have that option.
The unborn is a person, too. When it comes to life or death, I choose life. I don't think it is an option to kill the unborn child.
what's scary about that is that since that's your personal belief, i can't even post a halfway reasonable argument to it that will have anything close to a chance of having an effect.
jt, we need a new topic i can argue with jethro on. :)
Let's see life or death and since I choose life it is a persoanl belief? Do you choose death?
i was talking about your belief that the unborn child is a person. not life or death.
If you are talking about choosing to abort you are talking death.
ok, hypothetically speaking....If your wife was pregnant and the doctor told you that if your wife tried to have this baby she would die from the complications, who would you choose?
10:1 odds says the unborn child.
10: 1 odds says I'm not gonna get a straight answer!
thank God I'm not his wife!
2:1 odds says he's gonna answer your question with another question that's supposed to make you think, but doesn't because he doesn't have a valid answer to your original question.
I think you may be right!
ok, hypothetically speaking....If your wife was pregnant and the doctor told you that if your wife tried to have this baby she would die from the complications, who would you choose?
You think you understand my point of view, but apparently you don't if you can ask this question. You change the issue instead of facing it head on. Is abortion wrong or not? Do you think it is okay to kill the unborn child simply for conveience? I think the answer for several of you is yes. That tells me those that answer yes have no heart.
jethro, the world doesn't have to be black and white. and its because of people like you, who can't see the shades of grey in between, that we have to maintian the legality of abortion so that we can deal with precisely the situation that liquor lady described. let's face it, when delivering that child, if the mother dies, there's a good chance that the child will also die. so now you've got 2 deaths.
if that abortion is criminalised, you've got 2 deaths. now if you can stand by and tell that mother that she must deliver that child, and that when she does, she will die, you've got a lot less heart than i do.
You change the issue instead of facing it head on.
LOL!
Oh the irony.
"jethro, the world doesn't have to be black and white."
To a staunch pro-lifer, there is no alternative to a world that's black and white.
jethro, the world doesn't have to be black and white. and its because of people like you, who can't see the shades of grey in between, that we have to maintian the legality of abortion so that we can deal with precisely the situation that liquor lady described. First maybe your eyes just aren't sharp enough to see that the issue IS black and white. Second, you misunderstand, and I believe deliberately so. It is a different issue if the mother's life is in danger. The issue you won't face is when the mother's life is not in danger and the mother has an abortion out of convenience.
if that abortion is criminalised, you've got 2 deaths. now if you can stand by and tell that mother that she must deliver that child, and that when she does, she will die, you've got a lot less heart than i do. No you don't understand my position. You just made an assumption on NO facts. Typical liberal thoughtlessness.
Jethro, you're as slippery as the best of the liberals. You ought to run for a role in the Democratic leadership.
To a staunch pro-lifer, there is no alternative to a world that's black and white.
Once again you are wrong, Lundstrom. You are really good at it. It must come from plenty of practice. I see abortion as a black and white issue, but that is only one issue. Abortion is the taking of a life once it has started without any basis other than the convenience of the mother. That is wrong.
And so it goes........
"Jethro, you're as slippery as the best of the liberals. You ought to run for a role in the Democratic leadership."
The other side has welcomed its share of slipperiness, too.
jethro, i've agreed before that using abortion as the method of birth control that its become in this country is very much a problem. and never once have you given any indication that you support abortion if the mother's life is in danger. you've presented yourself as someone who is not only against abortion, but as someone who would support the bombing of an abortion clinic in the name of saving the lives of the unborn. now if you do that, how exactly is it that the mother is to receive that abortion if there's no place to perform it at.
<getting off of my soapbox>
while you may see a distinction in issues between abortion for convenience and abortion for saving the mother's life, there are far too many who don't. because they can't make that distinction, and do treat this as a single issue, with nothing more than black and white, i see no choice but to keep abortion legal across the board.
rick, jethro does not qualify as a pro-lifer. i know he never answered the question directly, but as his statements have shown, pro-life is not a valid term to describe him.
The other side has welcomed its share of slipperiness, too.
Such as?
I don't disagree with Jethro. I believe a fetus is a life. I believe abortion is wrong. And most of all I believe people should take responsibility for their actions.
That being said, Jethro is hardly consistent in his beliefs.
rick, jethro does not qualify as a pro-lifer.....
A true pro-lifer would not support the death penalty.
or the bombing of clinics.
jethro, you've presented yourself as someone who is not only against abortion, but as someone who would support the bombing of an abortion clinic in the name of saving the lives of the unborn. now if you do that, how exactly is it that the mother is to receive that abortion if there's no place to perform it at.
No I haven't said I would support bombing clinics. The only thing I said was that maybe a defensdant in a bombing case should be allowed to use a self defens/protection of others defense.
while you may see a distinction in issues between abortion for convenience and abortion for saving the mother's life, there are far too many who don't. because they can't make that distinction, and do treat this as a single issue, with nothing more than black and white, i see no choice but to keep abortion legal across the board.
That is a really DUMB reason to keep it legal.
rick, jethro does not qualify as a pro-lifer.....
A true pro-lifer would not support the death penalty.
A non thinking pro-lifer would not support the death penalty. A thinking pro-lifer can and many do because they understand the distinction between the unborn and someone that has had his chance in society and transgressed.
A non thinking pro-lifer would not support the death penalty. A thinking pro-lifer can and many do because they understand the distinction between the unborn and someone that has had his chance in society and transgressed.
You've got that statement all backwards.
I might believe this slippery slope hogwash if not for your, "They must be guilty if they're in jail" statements, and that's just one example of your inconsistencies.
I might believe this slippery slope hogwash if not for your, "They must be guilty if they're in jail" statements, and that's just one example of your inconsistencies.
99.999% of those in prison are guilty.
99.999% of those in prison are guilty.
so are 99.999% of those not in prison. they just haven't been caught yet.