well...do YOU know what happened there? Do you think it was Saddam?
the current administration tried to put a man who is FAMOUS for and protecting corrupt government, a man who is widely considered a war criminal, in charge of finding out...now why would they do that?
The nexus between big business and American governments is not a new phenomenon. It has always existed and after the ascendancy of the little boy bush and his money grubbing minions it has merely been institutionalized. The faint stigma associated with it has been erased and pretexts have given way to open pandering and unfettered cohabitation.
The thirst Americans have for oil is not going to subside. I would support ensuring a steady supply from the Middle East as opposed to drilling in Alaska . I would rather see the oil come from the depraved Saudis and feckless Kuwaitis rather than Iraq. Iraqis after all are some of the most emancipated of Muslims bar the Turks. Indonesian Muslims like the rest of the Islamic world have descended into the pit of depravity and the emasculated Muslims of India are too busy cowering before the dictates of their Hindoo masters to have any impact. It is a pity that the Iraqis are saddled with a megalomaniacal leader like so dumb insane and is a convenient target for the Oligarchs of the American establishment.
chuffy crabgrasss is on a pontificating high – his holier than thou rants are interesting but stale lefty regurgitated crap. crabby here is of Indian ( of the sub continental whining variety) origin and given to such sanctimonious barking.
crabby here is of Indian ( of the sub continental whining variety) origin
"Indian"?
that's a funny way to spell Pennsylvania Dutch
pontificating...holier than thou rants...sanctimonious barking.
see...
I would rather see the oil come from the depraved Saudis and feckless Kuwaitis rather than Iraq. Iraqis after all are some of the most emancipated of Muslims bar the Turks. Indonesian Muslims like the rest of the Islamic world have descended into the pit of depravity and the emasculated Muslims of India are too busy cowering before the dictates of their Hindoo masters to have any impact.
With so many troops amassed in the region, war I guess is inevitable. little boy bush has his knickers all in a knot now and has no options but to mount an assault on Iraq and hope the body bag count is low. If the planners have any savvy they would use high tech gadgets to the hilt, send in the worthless British first followed by the Kuwaiti scum and American troops last. Keeping the peace after the war and policing the oil supplies will prove more interesting.
It gets tiring constantly provide proof to ignorant people that in the end, ignore the proof anyway. Or will continue to debate one side of a subject despite providence of proof to the contrary.
We've got plenty of other places to get oil other than Iraq.
did you just ignore all the dealings that Bush & Co have done in that area of the world? I think you did. You ask for proof and then don't even read it.
I think you are being incredibly obtuse or argumentative old chap. Given chuffy crabgrass has provided links that are left wing or 3rd world anti-American bile, the motivation of oil and US pursuit of Iraq is apparent. If you want an establishment take on this read Friedman – not in NYT but in the British Guardian
The scenario that could produce $6-a-barrel oil goes like this: Iraq under Saddam has been pumping up to 2m barrels of oil a day, under the UN oil-for-food programme. Let's say a US invasion works and, in short order, Saddam is ousted and replaced by an Iraqi Thomas Jefferson, or just a "nice" general ready to abandon Iraq's nuclear weapons programme and rejoin the family of nations.
That would mean Iraq would be able to modernise all its oilfields, attract foreign investment and, in short order, ramp up its oil production to its long-sought capacity of 5m barrels a day. That is at least 3m barrels of oil a day more on the world market, and Iraq, which will be desperate for cash to rebuild, is not likely to restrain itself. (Now you understand why Saudi Arabia, Iran and Kuwait all have an economic interest in Saddam's staying in power and Iraq remaining a pariah state, so it can't produce more oil.)
I have my eyes on the newest Volvo SUV for fall this year – when gas prices will justify it.
so you think the US is as bad the AQ or the Talibanis. You are essentially equating the two.
So who are the true , principled people and government in the globe today? Your right wing, bride burning Hindoo government in India? The Russians? The Pope and his Vatican pederasts?
Given your abhorrence of US policies where would you migrate that will fit your moral compass??
you whine about the satanic USA like the Indians do. You sit here in the US and perennially bad mouth it like the Hindoos do. You bitch about the system here and see absolutely no redeeming values in this country or its people or its way of life. Traits that I see in most folks from India.
Perhaps I am confusing you with someone else – I could have sworn I have butted heads with you in the India forum.
You bitch about the system here and see absolutely no redeeming values in this country or its people or its way of life
I'm not talking about this country, I'm talking about it's current administration. It's a fine country and it's a damn shame that we have allowed this shit to go on.
Perhaps I am confusing you with someone else – I could have sworn I have butted heads with you in the India forum.
"The WTC was bombed right after Bush-Taliban oil pipeline talks soured"
Of course the story completely fails to mention the fact that it had been planned for 4 YEARS! Ah I'm sure that whole pipeline thing did it though right ? It was all about oil in Afghanistan too.
Luv2Fly 1/17/03 8:17am- Let me ask you this, If all we anted to do was get ahold of Saddamns oil fields why didn't we march right into Bagdhad in 91' ?
we did not do a lot of things in 91 old chap – remember old geezer bush was at the helm. The genetic mental incapacity in the family is all too apparent. We had our troops in Saudi then – the mother lode of all oil. Islam had not descended into its extremist cesspool then.
chuffy crabgrass goes over the bend in his paranoia – but he is spot on in this oil thing.
How come we aren't massing troops in southern Africa?
Of course oil is part of the equation. As Rick correctly pointed out it's about stability and the market flow as well.
The oil is flowing anyway so it isn't about getting oil. It is about political stability in the area which will keep it flowing. We don't go to Africa because we have no interest in it. In most areas of Africa they can kill each other all they want. It will not affect us.
I doubt Clinton and his Wall Street cabinet was a whole lot better. But little boy and his Oligarchs do take the cake. The anti US spigot got turned on only after little boy bush and his shenanigans – especially after 911. Immediately after 911 the whole world seemed to be empathizing with us. little boy just shot all that goodwill with his policies.
The Indians were moaning about the US even before that.
O.K So the only reason we didn't go into Bagdhad only because Bush Sr. was senile ? It was a bad mistake no doubt but back then people were saying we just wanted Sadamns oil then too, if that were the case we would have done so and marched into the baggie.
And he's not right on on the oil issue. It's part of it but he's twisting into something it never was. He posts some story about the WTC being bombed because the Bush-Taliban pipeline talks soured. YEt fails to realize that those plans were in the making for 4 years and started not long after the first attempt failed.
"Of course the story completely fails to mention the fact that it had been planned for 4 YEARS!"
did Henry tell you that?
Did your wacko websites tell ya that ?
You're right Crabs, it was all because Bush met in a secret lair with the Taliban and when he told them to get screwed they said, hmmmm, what can we do for revenge? , Oh wait, i know, we just happen to have this plan where we've been training pilots for 3 years and getting intell we could use, we really weren't gonna do anything, we just like plannning suicide bombings but since Bush pissed us off let's actually try the thing we've been planning for 4 years.
Hmmm and the first WTC bombing, well.... Um. Omar ? any ideas.
we went in there in 91 for the oil allright. If we had not gone in, so dumb insane would have swallowed Saudi Arabia just like he did Kuwait. This was the fear that motivated the 91 war. I agreed with the motivation - but was disgusted at the execution and the bombing of Iraq back to the stone ages.
This time there is no direct and immediate threat from Iraq and the goal is still oil.
I realize that Naradar (well I disagree with the last sentence and the bombing to the stone age part.) I was referring to those who said we were using it for an excuse to take over Iraq and get their oil. We should have kept going, hell my btl could have been there in 2 weeks.
I didn't know there was a difference
what bothers me is that we are using the military to insure profits for private companies.
my government has been taken over by big business
"and why are these conservatives pretending that it's about "evil"?
Something to do with what occurred on Sept. 11.
well...do YOU know what happened there? Do you think it was Saddam?
the current administration tried to put a man who is FAMOUS for and protecting corrupt government, a man who is widely considered a war criminal, in charge of finding out...now why would they do that?
don't they want us to find out?
"what bothers me is that we are using the military to insure profits for private companies. "
How do you know it's not the right to do, which, as it turns out, could also result in profits for private companies?
"my government has been taken over by big business "
If you think so, then you've pretty much painted yourself into an ideological corner. I think you should start thinking beyond slogans and cliches.
look at the resumes of the current administration and then try to say that with a straight face
Hey, Bush isn't my president.
Mine won;-)
you mean like this?
Well, if I hear another naive neo-flower child yell "No Blood for Oil" I'm going to hurl, too.
And that predates Bush the Younger.
I'm hungry...excuse me while I go kill a farmer
The nexus between big business and American governments is not a new phenomenon. It has always existed and after the ascendancy of the little boy bush and his money grubbing minions it has merely been institutionalized. The faint stigma associated with it has been erased and pretexts have given way to open pandering and unfettered cohabitation.
The thirst Americans have for oil is not going to subside. I would support ensuring a steady supply from the Middle East as opposed to drilling in Alaska . I would rather see the oil come from the depraved Saudis and feckless Kuwaitis rather than Iraq. Iraqis after all are some of the most emancipated of Muslims bar the Turks. Indonesian Muslims like the rest of the Islamic world have descended into the pit of depravity and the emasculated Muslims of India are too busy cowering before the dictates of their Hindoo masters to have any impact. It is a pity that the Iraqis are saddled with a megalomaniacal leader like so dumb insane and is a convenient target for the Oligarchs of the American establishment.
chuffy crabgrasss is on a pontificating high – his holier than thou rants are interesting but stale lefty regurgitated crap. crabby here is of Indian ( of the sub continental whining variety) origin and given to such sanctimonious barking.
Crabby, I don't deny we need oil. That's obvious in our everyday lives.
To say we're going to war with Iraq over oil is just silly.
You still haven't provided any proof.
"Indian"?
that's a funny way to spell Pennsylvania Dutch
see...
you don't want any help with that sand in your ears, do you?
With so many troops amassed in the region, war I guess is inevitable. little boy bush has his knickers all in a knot now and has no options but to mount an assault on Iraq and hope the body bag count is low. If the planners have any savvy they would use high tech gadgets to the hilt, send in the worthless British first followed by the Kuwaiti scum and American troops last. Keeping the peace after the war and policing the oil supplies will prove more interesting.
"To say we're going to war with Iraq over oil is just silly."
A meglomaniacal leader just stole an election in Zimbabwe and is in the midst of taking all the country's land to dole out to his cronies. That's bad.
How come we aren't massing troops in southern Africa?
'Cause the US has all the grain, coffee and tobacco it needs.
Bill Fold,
It gets tiring constantly provide proof to ignorant people that in the end, ignore the proof anyway. Or will continue to debate one side of a subject despite providence of proof to the contrary.
you just ignored the proof I provided
you have provided no proof yourself
Rick, do you really think it's all about oil?
Like I said, I don't deny oil is an issue. I don't think it's THE issue.
We've got plenty of other places to get oil other than Iraq.
you just ignored the proof I provided
I didn't read every link your posts offered, but all I saw was a bunch of Liberal propoganda.
did you just ignore all the dealings that Bush & Co have done in that area of the world? I think you did. You ask for proof and then don't even read it.
so, you are saying that this administration doesn't have ties to oil and that they haven't been involved in dealings in that area of the country?
It's not about oil as much as it is about the MOVEMENT of oil at MARKET PRICES. That's in the national interest of every nation.
And I can't understand why some people seem to hate George Bush and big business more than they hate terrorists.
one and the same
Crabgrass credibilty = 0
THX 1138 1/17/03 7:49am-
I think you are being incredibly obtuse or argumentative old chap. Given chuffy crabgrass has provided links that are left wing or 3rd world anti-American bile, the motivation of oil and US pursuit of Iraq is apparent. If you want an establishment take on this read Friedman – not in NYT but in the British Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,769844,00.html
dig this
The scenario that could produce $6-a-barrel oil goes like this: Iraq under Saddam has been pumping up to 2m barrels of oil a day, under the UN oil-for-food programme. Let's say a US invasion works and, in short order, Saddam is ousted and replaced by an Iraqi Thomas Jefferson, or just a "nice" general ready to abandon Iraq's nuclear weapons programme and rejoin the family of nations.
That would mean Iraq would be able to modernise all its oilfields, attract foreign investment and, in short order, ramp up its oil production to its long-sought capacity of 5m barrels a day. That is at least 3m barrels of oil a day more on the world market, and Iraq, which will be desperate for cash to rebuild, is not likely to restrain itself. (Now you understand why Saudi Arabia, Iran and Kuwait all have an economic interest in Saddam's staying in power and Iraq remaining a pariah state, so it can't produce more oil.)
I have my eyes on the newest Volvo SUV for fall this year – when gas prices will justify it.
let's see....
they kill us = terrorism
we kill them = ?
you honsetly think this is about terrorism?
maybe you could ask Kissinger what it's about...I'm sure he can give you an honest answer
so, that's what it's really all about
Rick 1/17/03 7:48am
A meglomaniacal leader just stole an election in Zimbabwe and is in the midst of taking all the country's land to dole out to his cronies. That's bad.
Stealing the election is bad. The land Mugabe is taking was usurped by the White British from the natives anyway.
And did you know the British are going to go over and play a cricket match in Rhodesia soon!! Apparently they have their priorities .
well, you gotta have priorities...like an SUV...it's all about priorities
chuffy - crabgrass 1/17/03 8:01am
so you think the US is as bad the AQ or the Talibanis. You are essentially equating the two.
So who are the true , principled people and government in the globe today? Your right wing, bride burning Hindoo government in India? The Russians? The Pope and his Vatican pederasts?
Given your abhorrence of US policies where would you migrate that will fit your moral compass??
where do you get this "India" shit?
Fact: The WTC was bombed right AFTER Bush-Taliban oil pipeline talks soured. The talks soured right AFTER Bush/Big Oil threatened Taliban to take their offer or receive a "carpet of bombs."
give us your oil or we will kill you
Good question Rick.
Crabs,
Of course oil is part of the equation. As Rick correctly pointed out it's about stability and the market flow as well.
Let me ask you this, If all we anted to do was get ahold of Saddamns oil fields why didn't we march right into Bagdhad in 91' ?
"Stealing the election is bad. The land Mugabe is taking was usurped by the White British from the natives anyway."
And the British, of course, lack Mugabe's sense of altruism.
chuffy - crabgrass 1/17/03 8:13am
you whine about the satanic USA like the Indians do. You sit here in the US and perennially bad mouth it like the Hindoos do. You bitch about the system here and see absolutely no redeeming values in this country or its people or its way of life. Traits that I see in most folks from India.
Perhaps I am confusing you with someone else – I could have sworn I have butted heads with you in the India forum.
I'm not talking about this country, I'm talking about it's current administration. It's a fine country and it's a damn shame that we have allowed this shit to go on.
no
crabgrass 1/17/03 8:16am
Hey mice "story" Crabs.
"The WTC was bombed right after Bush-Taliban oil pipeline talks soured"
Of course the story completely fails to mention the fact that it had been planned for 4 YEARS! Ah I'm sure that whole pipeline thing did it though right ? It was all about oil in Afghanistan too.
What about the first WTC bombing ?
just the Indians?
Luv2Fly 1/17/03 8:17am- Let me ask you this, If all we anted to do was get ahold of Saddamns oil fields why didn't we march right into Bagdhad in 91' ?
we did not do a lot of things in 91 old chap – remember old geezer bush was at the helm. The genetic mental incapacity in the family is all too apparent.
We had our troops in Saudi then – the mother lode of all oil. Islam had not descended into its extremist cesspool then.
chuffy crabgrass goes over the bend in his paranoia – but he is spot on in this oil thing.
did Henry tell you that?
How come we aren't massing troops in southern Africa?
Of course oil is part of the equation. As Rick correctly pointed out it's about stability and the market flow as well.
The oil is flowing anyway so it isn't about getting oil. It is about political stability in the area which will keep it flowing. We don't go to Africa because we have no interest in it. In most areas of Africa they can kill each other all they want. It will not affect us.
chuffy - crabgrass 1/17/03 8:20am
I doubt Clinton and his Wall Street cabinet was a whole lot better. But little boy and his Oligarchs do take the cake.
The anti US spigot got turned on only after little boy bush and his shenanigans – especially after 911. Immediately after 911 the whole world seemed to be empathizing with us. little boy just shot all that goodwill with his policies.
The Indians were moaning about the US even before that.
Naradar 1/17/03 8:25am
O.K So the only reason we didn't go into Bagdhad only because Bush Sr. was senile ? It was a bad mistake no doubt but back then people were saying we just wanted Sadamns oil then too, if that were the case we would have done so and marched into the baggie.
And he's not right on on the oil issue. It's part of it but he's twisting into something it never was. He posts some story about the WTC being bombed because the Bush-Taliban pipeline talks soured. YEt fails to realize that those plans were in the making for 4 years and started not long after the first attempt failed.
of course there were no oil companies four years ago.
Bush, Cheney, Rice...etc...they are all brand new to this game, right?
jethro bodine 1/17/03 8:30am
It is about political stability in the area which will keep it flowing.
if Americans do not remain there and enforce the stability, the region will make Rwanda look like a tea party.
In most areas of Africa they can kill each other all they want. It will not affect us.
right – the savages have no value to us. They even cannibalize each other as in Congo. So – would you say abortion is OK for these savages??
"Of course the story completely fails to mention the fact that it had been planned for 4 YEARS!"
Did your wacko websites tell ya that ?
You're right Crabs, it was all because Bush met in a secret lair with the Taliban and when he told them to get screwed they said, hmmmm, what can we do for revenge? , Oh wait, i know, we just happen to have this plan where we've been training pilots for 3 years and getting intell we could use, we really weren't gonna do anything, we just like plannning suicide bombings but since Bush pissed us off let's actually try the thing we've been planning for 4 years.
Hmmm and the first WTC bombing, well.... Um. Omar ? any ideas.
YEt fails to realize that those plans were in the making for 4 years and started not long after the first attempt failed.
Keep digging Crabs. Ya, that's right, it was all a secret plan. See post above.
Luv2Fly 1/17/03 8:31am
we went in there in 91 for the oil allright. If we had not gone in, so dumb insane would have swallowed Saudi Arabia just like he did Kuwait. This was the fear that motivated the 91 war. I agreed with the motivation - but was disgusted at the execution and the bombing of Iraq back to the stone ages.
This time there is no direct and immediate threat from Iraq and the goal is still oil.
Naradar 1/17/03 8:39am
I realize that Naradar (well I disagree with the last sentence and the bombing to the stone age part.) I was referring to those who said we were using it for an excuse to take over Iraq and get their oil. We should have kept going, hell my btl could have been there in 2 weeks.
"Did your wacko websites tell ya that ?"
Thats' the problem. On the Internet there are people give the same weight to everythng.
Financial Times, New York Times, CNN, bushisamurderingkillingmaniac.com...
Check out CarlSpackler.com for the best in "Caddyshack" sound bites and Iraq war predictions.
"Cannonball, Cannonball coming"