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LOL, "So I'm caddyin for the Dali Llama and the round get's done and he doesn't you know, give me a tip,I figure he's tryin to stiff me so, i'm like, HeY, Llama, how bout a little somthin for the effort" So instead of money he tells me, On your death bed, you shall recieve totall consciencnous, ....so i got that going for me"
I do love that whole oil pipeline, talks get nasty bomb the WTC idea. That was a good one too.
Naradar wrote: if Americans do not remain there and enforce the stability, the region will make Rwanda look like a tea party. Maybe. But the fact is that the US has an interest in mideast stability
I wrote: In most areas of Africa they can kill each other all they want. It will not affect us.
Naradar responded: right – the savages have no value to us. They even cannibalize each other as in Congo. So – would you say abortion is OK for these savages??
You called them savages, not me. I just stated we don't have an interest there. Abortion is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
I couldn't sleep last night and there was a documentary done in cooperation with the BBC. It was very well done. It talked about the recent history of the mid east from about the early 70's to present.
It wasn't over critical of any one administration and in fact found many mistakes made on each side of the aisle and the people in charge. An ex CIA case officer who worked in many area of the mid east, his stories were corroberated by others including old enemies.
The most glaring thing of all was our massive intelligence failure which was mainly due to nuetering our intell capabilities. The first part of it talked about the church commission and the executive order that outlawed assasinating any enemy or head of state. There were times when we could have easily taken out charachters like Khafdaffi, Bin Laden, and Hussein. Only the president can make exceptions and none of them did. One British SAS officer wondered what the difference was between a 2,000 lbs. bomb dropped on his head vs. a round from a sniper rifle.
The Church comission also forbid our agents from paying informants because they were bad guys. Well no kiding bad guys are naughty but they were the only ones on the inside who could give us info. IT touched on alot from Beirut in 83, (which turned out ot be Iran) the Khobar towers, TW flight 830, Lockerbie, the first WTC bombing, the African embassies, the USS Cole and 9-11.
Some leaders put way too much money and trust into technology. I heard a quote from someone in the Carter admin who was quoted as saying why do we need agents, we have sattelites that can read a liscence plate from space. The operative said, yea that's great, if you've been attacked by a liscence plate.
We failed to realize the forces lining up agianst us through bad intell or none, arrogance, disbelief it could ever be a real threat or all of the above.
There was alot of interesting stuff in between and some massive blunders from an intell perspective on our part but since this is the Iraq thread I'll fast forward to that. In April of 95' their was a coup attempt in Iraq. It took months but alliances were made, details were worked out, many of Sadamns top people were in on it and the opposistion was ready to go. Washington had so far given the green light. They were about to do this and overtake and Kill Sadamn. Right before they started the uprising Washinton pullled the plug. It left those people exposed and many were jailed or killed. In short, the opposistion is going to have a much harder time trusting us again to back them.
BTW it should also be noted that the former head of the Nuclear program for Iraq said it would be almost impossible to find their weapons unless the country is occupied. Which goes along a bit with the find yesterday, they asked one of the inspectors how they found it and he said "I think we got lucky".
I think crabby should be given some credit. At least he did try to back up his arguement. It is nice to know where people are coming from. I for one thank Crabby for trying to back up his arguement.
C'mon guys. Don't you ever get tired of going at it every day ? Ignore each other if you get under eachothers skin that much, let it slide will ya ? I know it's tough but everyday I have to just page through the endless litany of barbs being exchanged. It used to be funny. E-gram the hell out of eachother or do something.
Don't you ever get tired of going at it every day ? No.Ignore each other if you get under eachothers skin that much, let it slide will ya ? What fun would that be?
I already ignore the daily pissing matches Jethro. It's called common courtesy to not have to page past a daily playground attack. You and Bill can and do contribute alot. The daily vile is getting old. Maybe it's just me who's tired of seeing it perhaps others feel differently.
It's like the Looney Tune cartoons, with Wile E. Coyote and the sheep dog. They come in the morning, punch in. "Morning Ralph." "Morning Sam." You two are like the spiteful version. "Fold, you suck" "Jethro, you moron."
I realize he goes at it with other posters. The difference is you two seem to make a sport of it. It's always yea well he did it or well he's worse or he started it. Who gives a shit who started it, both your constant back and forth posts get old and you both have such a hatred for eachother you've gone beyond just getting upset once and a while. Be the bigger person, ignore him. Go back and look at some of the exchanges between you two, good God man it's downright grade school. If you like going after eachother on a personal level fine but do it on e-gram's. You both have alot to contribute and nobody's ganging up on either one of you it's just a matter of being tired of seeing the childish exchanges everyday, day in and day out. So don't take it as people not wanting you here they are just tired of the pissing match o.k ?
France suggested today it would wage a major diplomatic fight, including possible use of its veto power, to prevent the U.N. Security Council from passing a resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.
France's opposition to a war, emphatically delivered here by Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, is a major blow for the Bush administration, which has begun pouring tens of thousands of troops into the Persian Gulf in preparation for a military conflict this spring. The administration had hoped to mark the final phase in its confrontation with Iraq when U.N. weapons inspectors deliver a progress report Monday.
And now I find myself thinking the French frogs have brains! War does make strange bedfellows.
What surprised me is the Turkish caving in. They are allowing US troops to land and use their territory. And this is an Islamist leaning Govt. in power. The Turkish military though has always been just another wing of the US armed forces. We buy them by the bushels.
The thrust of his arguments is convincing – but he allows himself to make the same implementation mistakes all warmongers fall prey too. From Nam to allowing so-dumb-insane to remain in power, the military establishment always lacks political strategy or savvy. Testosterone takes over I guess. Fold is a prime example of military intelligence.
What liberals fail to recognize is that regime change in Iraq is not some distraction from the war on Al Qaeda. That is a bogus argument. And simply because oil is also at stake in Iraq doesn't make it illegitimate either. Some things are right to do, even if Big Oil benefits.
In theory, I concur. In reality the pursuit of AQ is bogged down and at a standstill. OBL thumbs his nose and is allowed to get away and remain an inspiration to terrorists.
What threatens Western societies today are not the deterrables, like Saddam, but the undeterrables — the boys who did 9/11, who hate us more than they love life. It's these human missiles of mass destruction that could really destroy our open society.
spot on in his analysis above.
If we don't help transform these Arab states — which are also experiencing population explosions — to create better governance, to build more open and productive economies, to empower their women and to develop responsible media that won't blame all their ills on others, we will never begin to see the political, educational and religious reformations they need to shrink their output of undeterrables.
Iraq is NOT at the top of the list of these despicable states – it used to be the most emancipated of Islamic countries. By taking Iraq out , the other rogue nations – Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt and above all Israel – still remain and threaten the US.
because liberating the captive peoples of the Mideast is a virtue in itself and because in today's globalized world, if you don't visit a bad neighborhood, it will visit you.
After the liberation of Iraq, the hazard is that the situation exacerbates, the antagonism towards the US multiplies 10 fold and all Americans become sitting ducks for terrorists.
Add to that the personal liberties that are being jeopardized in the name of national security. Instead of liberating the Middle East, the US ends up emulating its worst practices.
The thrust of his arguments is convincing – but he allows himself to make the same implementation mistakes all warmongers fall prey too. From Nam to allowing so-dumb-insane to remain in power, the military establishment always lacks political strategy or savvy. Testosterone takes over I guess. Fold is a prime example of military intelligence.
Asides from your idiotic attack on Fold you fail to realize that it's not up to the military to decide where to go or whom to fight. Vietnam was very very winnable. But it was politicized and run by Washington which is the perfect recipe for disaster. If you've ever read McNamara's book it gives a better insight to the folly they perpetrated on the soilders. It was downright criminal and they let it go on and on with no real strategy. Anyone who reads that book will have the sudden urge to punch Mcnamara and go take a leak on LBJ's grave. Well at least I did anyways.
It was also a bad decision by Bush not to keep going to baggy. But here's something nobody ever talks about. Evryone is all whipped up to have 30 nations like we did in 91' vs. the 10 or so that are on board now. It's that exact same litany of nations that wanted us to stop. Had we kept going the cry would have been that the U.N resolution didn't call for booting Sadamn, the coaltion would have fallen apart or it would have got nasty politicaly and he listened and was also given some bad advice. Now those same people are clamoring for us to listen to the U.N again. Yea, great, it worked well last time.
 - screwed up implementation. You make my point. Powell was burnt in Nam and thought like you do. He put this veil of secrecy around Gulf I. Under this veil he could have offed so-dumb. And when has criticism of US influenced policy??
With North Korea we want the UN because little boy bush has feces all over his face.
And do you think we will desist from going into Iraq if the security council says another resolution is required or France vetoes?? We will twist the UN into compliance.
You are whining in a similar manner you accuse the anti-war folks of.
I'm not whining about anything, merely pointing out your ovbviously flawed logic.
Under this veil he could have offed so-dumb.
Well no he couldn't have, it's illegal by executive order which was signed into law by Gerald Ford. It can only be over ridden by presidential order. Once it was done the CIA etc cannot participate because of the law and political implications.
You fail also to see the difference when Washington was fighting the battles vs. the soilders. In Nam, our troops couldn't go here, or there, they had safe haven and the number of troops was inadequate as was the strategy. Vs. the gulf, asides from obvious differences the plan was a 180 degree change, hit them hard, hit them fast and with everything you have. IT ends it quick and saves lives in the long run for both side.
Well no he couldn't have, it's illegal by executive order which was signed into law by Gerald Ford
and I have a bridge I can sell to you. Allende, Muhammad Mossdagh of Persia were all conveniently overthrown. The cigar bombs aimed at Castro?? Subterfuge has been employed for ages by the US government. And warranted in several cases.
The first American I ever became friends with was a Peace Corps volunteer in South India. He was paid $20 a month - a huge sum in India at that time - by the CIA to file reports. He eventually joined the diplomatic corps and is in South America now. Dirty tricks are part of the defence - read Sun Tzu , Machiavelli and look at Kissinger.
and I have a bridge I can sell to you. Allende, Muhammad Mossdagh of Persia were all conveniently overthrown. The cigar bombs aimed at Castro?? Subterfuge has been employed for ages by the US government. And warranted in several cases.
Castro coincidentally was the last "target" if you will before Ford outlawed it. I think it wouldn't be a terrible thing if we could have a little "accident" for people like Castro etc. etc. I can see why but I think there's times when it would be acceptable. I know everyone thinks that the CIA and it's officers can do what they want willy nilly they are very very serious about not participating in asasinations. They can know about them but not support them or interact with them. The last guy who did was dismissed for being accuseed of it. They can be involed in coups etc but not if the direct plan is assasination, I'm sure the law is skirted but otherwise their would be alot more dead people.
Good God, Naradar agreeing or hoping Jehtro's right, Now I'm agreeing with Naradar. Gotta be a sign of the end coming soon :) Just kidding.
I agree Naradar, I don't think it would matter whom was in power. The French and Russians have huge amounts of investments tied up in Iraq. So they are acting in their best interest and are voicing opposition accordingly. Every nation acts in it's own best interest and are using the nuetered UN to hide behind because of those very interests.
Germany or to more specific Shroeder is basing much of it on political reasons and riding the wave of anti west/ American movement that gave him the slimist of margins to victory.
Well we won't have French or German firepower appearantly. Darn, the military might of Germany and France will be sorely missed (in the mess tent)
For Sale: French rifle, never fired, only dropped once.
Let's just say it's been a while since they put one in the W column.
I don't care if they don't want to participate. I have no problem with that. Just say so but if you don't plan on participating step aside and don't get in the way or pretend to feign outrage because of your own interests.
Well, Naradar says they're after the Ivory Coast this week.
But I hope the US isn't in Iraq to rack up a W for us.
I honestly think that was the reason for Grenada. The US left Lebanon in humiliation just a few weeks before. And Reagan wanted to build up troop morale.
"The Grenada Story" 10 Volumes in Time/Life books.
They do. But I think they deal with it in different ways, and in some ways pretty effective.
They have a vast undercover force that can speak Arabic in accents and dialects. Street Arabic. They have successfully undermined terrorism in ways the US have not been able to do.
The US was bad at that. I wonder if 9/11 could have been detected sooner if the FBI had not turned down applicants for Arabic interpreters because they were gay.
LOL, "So I'm caddyin for the Dali Llama and the round get's done and he doesn't you know, give me a tip,I figure he's tryin to stiff me so, i'm like, HeY, Llama, how bout a little somthin for the effort" So instead of money he tells me, On your death bed, you shall recieve totall consciencnous, ....so i got that going for me"
I do love that whole oil pipeline, talks get nasty bomb the WTC idea. That was a good one too.
"Big hitter the, Lama."
Gotta laugh, or you're gonna cry.
A classic no doubt.
Is that a real website ?
Sure is.
Check the Multimedia link.
Oh my, You're right, gotta laugh or you're gonna cry.
Naradar wrote: if Americans do not remain there and enforce the stability, the region will make Rwanda look like a tea party. Maybe. But the fact is that the US has an interest in mideast stability
I wrote: In most areas of Africa they can kill each other all they want. It will not affect us.
Naradar responded: right – the savages have no value to us. They even cannibalize each other as in Congo. So – would you say abortion is OK for these savages??
You called them savages, not me. I just stated we don't have an interest there. Abortion is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
I couldn't sleep last night and there was a documentary done in cooperation with the BBC. It was very well done. It talked about the recent history of the mid east from about the early 70's to present.
It wasn't over critical of any one administration and in fact found many mistakes made on each side of the aisle and the people in charge. An ex CIA case officer who worked in many area of the mid east, his stories were corroberated by others including old enemies.
The most glaring thing of all was our massive intelligence failure which was mainly due to nuetering our intell capabilities.
The first part of it talked about the church commission and the executive order that outlawed assasinating any enemy or head of state. There were times when we could have easily taken out charachters like Khafdaffi, Bin Laden, and Hussein. Only the president can make exceptions and none of them did. One British SAS officer wondered what the difference was between a 2,000 lbs. bomb dropped on his head vs. a round from a sniper rifle.
The Church comission also forbid our agents from paying informants because they were bad guys. Well no kiding bad guys are naughty but they were the only ones on the inside who could give us info. IT touched on alot from Beirut in 83, (which turned out ot be Iran) the Khobar towers, TW flight 830, Lockerbie, the first WTC bombing, the African embassies, the USS Cole and 9-11.
Some leaders put way too much money and trust into technology. I heard a quote from someone in the Carter admin who was quoted as saying why do we need agents, we have sattelites that can read a liscence plate from space. The operative said, yea that's great, if you've been attacked by a liscence plate.
We failed to realize the forces lining up agianst us through bad intell or none, arrogance, disbelief it could ever be a real threat or all of the above.
There was alot of interesting stuff in between and some massive blunders from an intell perspective on our part but since this is the Iraq thread I'll fast forward to that. In April of 95' their was a coup attempt in Iraq. It took months but alliances were made, details were worked out, many of Sadamns top people were in on it and the opposistion was ready to go. Washington had so far given the green light. They were about to do this and overtake and Kill Sadamn. Right before they started the uprising Washinton pullled the plug. It left those people exposed and many were jailed or killed. In short, the opposistion is going to have a much harder time trusting us again to back them.
BTW it should also be noted that the former head of the Nuclear program for Iraq said it would be almost impossible to find their weapons unless the country is occupied. Which goes along a bit with the find yesterday, they asked one of the inspectors how they found it and he said "I think we got lucky".
I think crabby should be given some credit. At least he did try to back up his arguement. It is nice to know where people are coming from. I for one thank Crabby for trying to back up his arguement.
Backing it up with flawed theory and conspiracy websites but hey we don't wanna be too picky ;)
follow the money
follow the money
You know I do that every day. Damn that money is FAST!
oh how witty, fold. Again, you must make the morons proud!
C'mon guys. Don't you ever get tired of going at it every day ? Ignore each other if you get under eachothers skin that much, let it slide will ya ? I know it's tough but everyday I have to just page through the endless litany of barbs being exchanged. It used to be funny. E-gram the hell out of eachother or do something.
Don't you ever get tired of going at it every day ? No.Ignore each other if you get under eachothers skin that much, let it slide will ya ? What fun would that be?
Because, when you do it in every thread everyday it get's a bit old for those who don't want to read it and have to post past it everyday.
Let me suggest:
I already ignore the daily pissing matches Jethro. It's called common courtesy to not have to page past a daily playground attack. You and Bill can and do contribute alot. The daily vile is getting old. Maybe it's just me who's tired of seeing it perhaps others feel differently.
It's like the Looney Tune cartoons, with Wile E. Coyote and the sheep dog. They come in the morning, punch in. "Morning Ralph." "Morning Sam." You two are like the spiteful version. "Fold, you suck" "Jethro, you moron."
no, no, no. It is "fold, you moron" and "jethro, you suck."
(This message not displayed because 'Bill - Fold' is on your Discussion Area Ignore List. To change your ignore lists go to Preferences.)
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I'd encouage anyone who is sick of this childish bullshit to do the same.
Both of you constantly go after each other personally.
If I wasn't host of the PPWC I'd put both of you on ignore.
And that's all I have to say about that.
Bill,
I realize he goes at it with other posters. The difference is you two seem to make a sport of it. It's always yea well he did it or well he's worse or he started it. Who gives a shit who started it, both your constant back and forth posts get old and you both have such a hatred for eachother you've gone beyond just getting upset once and a while. Be the bigger person, ignore him. Go back and look at some of the exchanges between you two, good God man it's downright grade school. If you like going after eachother on a personal level fine but do it on e-gram's. You both have alot to contribute and nobody's ganging up on either one of you it's just a matter of being tired of seeing the childish exchanges everyday, day in and day out. So don't take it as people not wanting you here they are just tired of the pissing match o.k ?
From the WP
France suggested today it would wage a major diplomatic fight, including possible use of its veto power, to prevent the U.N. Security Council from passing a resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.
France's opposition to a war, emphatically delivered here by Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, is a major blow for the Bush administration, which has begun pouring tens of thousands of troops into the Persian Gulf in preparation for a military conflict this spring. The administration had hoped to mark the final phase in its confrontation with Iraq when U.N. weapons inspectors deliver a progress report Monday.
And now I find myself thinking the French frogs have brains! War does make strange bedfellows.
The French will fall in line. They just have to make some noise first.
I think the Frogs will eventually toe the line.
What surprised me is the Turkish caving in. They are allowing US troops to land and use their territory. And this is an Islamist leaning Govt. in power. The Turkish military though has always been just another wing of the US armed forces. We buy them by the bushels.
Fold - are you throwing a hissy fit?
I wish the arguments were as well but that's fine.
Really ? O.K if that's the way you feel about it so be it. Attack eachother 30 times a day, that's fine. I'm done talking about it.
fold, I hope you have also put me on your discussion ignore list just like you have your e-gram list.
Friedman pontificates to the liberals -
The Liberals and war on Iraq
The thrust of his arguments is convincing – but he allows himself to make the same implementation mistakes all warmongers fall prey too. From Nam to allowing so-dumb-insane to remain in power, the military establishment always lacks political strategy or savvy. Testosterone takes over I guess. Fold is a prime example of military intelligence.
What liberals fail to recognize is that regime change in Iraq is not some distraction from the war on Al Qaeda. That is a bogus argument. And simply because oil is also at stake in Iraq doesn't make it illegitimate either. Some things are right to do, even if Big Oil benefits.
In theory, I concur. In reality the pursuit of AQ is bogged down and at a standstill. OBL thumbs his nose and is allowed to get away and remain an inspiration to terrorists.
What threatens Western societies today are not the deterrables, like Saddam, but the undeterrables — the boys who did 9/11, who hate us more than they love life. It's these human missiles of mass destruction that could really destroy our open society.
spot on in his analysis above.
If we don't help transform these Arab states — which are also experiencing population explosions — to create better governance, to build more open and productive economies, to empower their women and to develop responsible media that won't blame all their ills on others, we will never begin to see the political, educational and religious reformations they need to shrink their output of undeterrables.
Iraq is NOT at the top of the list of these despicable states – it used to be the most emancipated of Islamic countries. By taking Iraq out , the other rogue nations – Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt and above all Israel – still remain and threaten the US.
because liberating the captive peoples of the Mideast is a virtue in itself and because in today's globalized world, if you don't visit a bad neighborhood, it will visit you.
After the liberation of Iraq, the hazard is that the situation exacerbates, the antagonism towards the US multiplies 10 fold and all Americans become sitting ducks for terrorists.
Add to that the personal liberties that are being jeopardized in the name of national security. Instead of liberating the Middle East, the US ends up emulating its worst practices.
Naradar,
Asides from your idiotic attack on Fold you fail to realize that it's not up to the military to decide where to go or whom to fight. Vietnam was very very winnable. But it was politicized and run by Washington which is the perfect recipe for disaster. If you've ever read McNamara's book it gives a better insight to the folly they perpetrated on the soilders. It was downright criminal and they let it go on and on with no real strategy. Anyone who reads that book will have the sudden urge to punch Mcnamara and go take a leak on LBJ's grave. Well at least I did anyways.
It was also a bad decision by Bush not to keep going to baggy. But here's something nobody ever talks about. Evryone is all whipped up to have 30 nations like we did in 91' vs. the 10 or so that are on board now. It's that exact same litany of nations that wanted us to stop. Had we kept going the cry would have been that the U.N resolution didn't call for booting Sadamn, the coaltion would have fallen apart or it would have got nasty politicaly and he listened and was also given some bad advice. Now those same people are clamoring for us to listen to the U.N again. Yea, great, it worked well last time.
Luv2Fly 1/22/03 8:32am
 - screwed up implementation. You make my point. Powell was burnt in Nam and thought like you do. He put this veil of secrecy around Gulf I. Under this veil he could have offed so-dumb. And when has criticism of US influenced policy??
With North Korea we want the UN because little boy bush has feces all over his face.
And do you think we will desist from going into Iraq if the security council says another resolution is required or France vetoes?? We will twist the UN into compliance.
You are whining in a similar manner you accuse the anti-war folks of.
Naradar,
I'm not whining about anything, merely pointing out your ovbviously flawed logic.
Well no he couldn't have, it's illegal by executive order which was signed into law by Gerald Ford. It can only be over ridden by presidential order. Once it was done the CIA etc cannot participate because of the law and political implications.
You fail also to see the difference when Washington was fighting the battles vs. the soilders. In Nam, our troops couldn't go here, or there, they had safe haven and the number of troops was inadequate as was the strategy. Vs. the gulf, asides from obvious differences the plan was a 180 degree change, hit them hard, hit them fast and with everything you have. IT ends it quick and saves lives in the long run for both side.
Well no he couldn't have, it's illegal by executive order which was signed into law by Gerald Ford
and I have a bridge I can sell to you. Allende, Muhammad Mossdagh of Persia were all conveniently overthrown. The cigar bombs aimed at Castro?? Subterfuge has been employed for ages by the US government. And warranted in several cases.
The first American I ever became friends with was a Peace Corps volunteer in South India. He was paid $20 a month - a huge sum in India at that time - by the CIA to file reports. He eventually joined the diplomatic corps and is in South America now. Dirty tricks are part of the defence - read Sun Tzu , Machiavelli and look at Kissinger.
Castro coincidentally was the last "target" if you will before Ford outlawed it. I think it wouldn't be a terrible thing if we could have a little "accident" for people like Castro etc. etc. I can see why but I think there's times when it would be acceptable. I know everyone thinks that the CIA and it's officers can do what they want willy nilly they are very very serious about not participating in asasinations. They can know about them but not support them or interact with them. The last guy who did was dismissed for being accuseed of it. They can be involed in coups etc but not if the direct plan is assasination, I'm sure the law is skirted but otherwise their would be alot more dead people.
Well, the Krauts and the Frogs have ganged up on the US.
We go it alone in Iraq.
I question the motives and despair at the inanity of it all.
little boy bush wails about the sanctity of life but sends our children to alien shores to die - for oil.
so-dumb-insane is history - hope the bastard experiences an excruciatingly painful end.
Hope our entry will be quick, precise, surgical and with minimal loss of life to our sons and daughters. I cannot stomach body bags.
The collateral damage of innocents will also be hoefully minimal.
Blood will be spilt - it will probably be Kurdish and Shiite blood. The Kurds are resigned to it and the shiites get a taste of their own medicine.
This friday I will visit my temple and bribe the Elephant God with coconuts and milk to protect Americans.
The future scares me - the terrorist reprisal will be gruesome.
the terrorist reprisal will be gruesome.
NONSENSE!!!!
jethro bodine 1/22/03 2:11pm
Why Nonsense?
didn't 911 happen?
How can anyone guarantee the prevention of a dude from Iraq or any other terrorist country coming here with a test tube containing small Pox virus?
I can also hide my head in the sand Jethro - but for once I sincerely hope you are right.
Today I am pissed at the French frogs - these guys just sent in troops to the Ivory Coast and asked no ones permission.
This should have been done with global approval - but the morons in power cannot build a case or rally public opinion.
Why Nonsense?
The terrorist threat won't be any worse if we attack Iraq. The threat, though, might well be less.
jethro bodine 1/22/03 2:43pm
"The terrorist threat won't be any worse if we attack Iraq. "
I could go with that...
Good God, Naradar agreeing or hoping Jehtro's right, Now I'm agreeing with Naradar. Gotta be a sign of the end coming soon :) Just kidding.
I agree Naradar, I don't think it would matter whom was in power. The French and Russians have huge amounts of investments tied up in Iraq. So they are acting in their best interest and are voicing opposition accordingly. Every nation acts in it's own best interest and are using the nuetered UN to hide behind because of those very interests.
Germany or to more specific Shroeder is basing much of it on political reasons and riding the wave of anti west/ American movement that gave him the slimist of margins to victory.
Well we won't have French or German firepower appearantly. Darn, the military might of Germany and France will be sorely missed (in the mess tent)
For Sale: French rifle, never fired, only dropped once.
So the the French are bad fighters. I could think of worse vices.
Are Americans good painters? Ever been to a Ducks Unlimited art auction?
Everyone's heard Aaron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man."
Did you know that Copeland first wanted to call it "Fanfare for the Fighting French" ?
Let's just say it's been a while since they put one in the W column.
I don't care if they don't want to participate. I have no problem with that. Just say so but if you don't plan on participating step aside and don't get in the way or pretend to feign outrage because of your own interests.
Well, Naradar says they're after the Ivory Coast this week.
But I hope the US isn't in Iraq to rack up a W for us.
I honestly think that was the reason for Grenada. The US left Lebanon in humiliation just a few weeks before. And Reagan wanted to build up troop morale.
"The Grenada Story" 10 Volumes in Time/Life books.
Were you there when it all went down?
I don't think the students who were rescued saw it as doing it just for a "W". Nor do I think it's for this as well.
Rick,
You're a confessed Franco file. Do you think their business interests are a driving force behind their opposition ?
It would all be a guess for me.\03I think the French are concerned about terrorist repercussions as a result of thieir support.
They may yet change their mind.
Seems to me that they already have plenty of problems with terrorism.
Are they also not worried about the reprecussions with their large and growing Muslim population ?
Triple 6 JOE !
They do. But I think they deal with it in different ways, and in some ways pretty effective.
They have a vast undercover force that can speak Arabic in accents and dialects. Street Arabic. They have successfully undermined terrorism in ways the US have not been able to do.
The US was bad at that. I wonder if 9/11 could have been detected sooner if the FBI had not turned down applicants for Arabic interpreters because they were gay.