Of course it will get worse, the media will make sure of it. The loons turn up for the cameras. Mrs Sheehan will become the gift that keeps on giving. I understand her grief. I wish her nothing but comfort. I simply disagree with her. But her rhetoric is over the top and frankly makes her look foolish.
Of course it ebbs and flows. I just don't think it is the degree of ebb you think it is. Polls are meaningless emotional snapshots. I also think that the media has become great at making news instead of reporting it. They are not all to blame nor are the people that use them they feed off of each other. Watch what happens at any event when a camera shows up. People act differently. The thing is Bill that the war was in full swinging insurgent mode when the election took place. Will people get tired of it? Sure, if there was some semblance of balance in the media it might be different. All I know is that a defeat in Iraq would be a defeat for us, for Iraq humanity and freedom period. What bothers the shit out of me to no end is that some would rather score political points than have a decent outcome.
If she was a rightie, and she was camped-out at Clinton's place when he was being impeached? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She'd be a National Hero to the right.
She'd be our disgrace. I'd say she should get a fucking job instead of camping outside of Clinton's place for weeks on end harassing him.
But you can bet one thing is for sure... there will be more protests, now that they have found a way to coordinate them, and I will be at the very next one. As it was in 1970, so it is in 2005.
Another prediction I need to bookmark. btw: 10yrT is down 11bp from a week ago, and 30yrM is down 9bp.
Yes, but they didn't have a lightning-rod like Ms. Sheehan, nor so much anger at Gdubb's handling of the war in IRAQ, falling poll numbers to THE lowest he has ever seen and now, even people in Texas willing to tell him to go fuck himself, such as his neighbor, the one who is allowing Ms. Sheehan to move onto his "Ranch", 1 mile from Dubb?
She's a lightning bug. She'll be forgotten within six weeks. Two months at most.
It will get worse. I don't care if you don't believe that, but it is the truth. I've seen it before. Watch the news tonight, then next week... This is just the start... And GDubb could have defused it, a week ago.
He'd be a fool to meet with her. There's nothing he can do that she or or her fellow wack jobs would be happy with. He's not going to change his strategy in Iraq, therefore meeting with her/them would be a waste of his and their time.
Sharon giving back GAZA? WOW.
::sigh::
Uhm, the Bush administration has backed this plan.
The poor woman has now gone to her mother, who just had a stroke. She's getting a lot piled on to her. I hope she wants and is able to get some privacy from the press.
Yeah, well obviously your head has been self-slammed one too many times, because YOU are the one that has been "shooting the messenger" all fucking week. As in... "Crazy Woman"?
I think she is crazy.
Hell man, you have called her everything except (please forgive me Muskwa), a C-nt.
I have? What exactly have I called her? What have I said that is so evil and has offended you so much?
BTW: I don't think I've ever used the "C" word in my life. That's more your age group and your style.
Shit... go ahead man. That's what you want to call her anyway.
I've said what I want to say, and I don't need the likes of you trying to put words in my mouth.
I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, because she's a grieving mother who is losing her husband, her family has turned against her, and her mother is ill. All that together could make a person kinda crazy. I think she's being used. I also think that she doesn't understand that she is dishonoring her son.
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
</NYT_BYLINE> Published: August 23, 2005
<NYT_TEXT>
Filed at 5:59 p.m. ET
PREAMBLE
We the people of Iraq, newly arisen from our disasters and looking with confidence to the future through a democratic, federal, republican system, are determined -- men and women, old and young -- to respect the rule of law, reject the policy of aggression, pay attention to women and their rights, the elderly and their cares, the children and their affairs, spread the culture of diversity and defuse terrorism.
We are the people of Iraq, who in all our forms and groupings undertake to establish our union freely and by choice, to learn yesterday's lessons for tomorrow, and to write down this permanent constitution from the high values and ideals of the heavenly messages and the developments of science and human civilization, and to adhere to this constitution, which shall preserve for Iraq its free union of people, land and sovereignty...
I don't like some of what I see in this "partial text" of the constitution. In fact, some of it seems to contradict itself.
Article (2): First, Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:
Not good to setup an official religion of a nation.
a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.
b) No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of democracy.
c) No law can be passed that contradicts the rights and basic freedoms outlined in this constitution.
Second, this constitution guarantees the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi people, and the full religious rights for all individuals, and the freedom of creed and religious practices.
Doesn't much of Islamic law contradict basic principals of democracy and other freedoms outlined in this constitution (rights of women to vote for example)?
Hopefully they can iron things out and come up with an exceptable constitution.
"No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam."
Depends a lot on the word "undisputed" there. I think defining "undesputed" depends a lot on what group holds power. The U.S. has propped up a more fundamentalist branch of Islam.
It's an age-old tactic. Play one group against another. Take one group out of power and support them against the group that's in power.
Bill, I think she's dishonoring her son by verbally supporting the people who killed him, whom she has called "freedom fighters." He was an adult, he made his choices, and she's saying that the President, who was elected by the people, killed him -- in other words, he was killed by his own country. I'm quite sure he would not agree with her.
Thanks, Bill, I'll look for it. I was very involved in the events of the '60s and I always look forward to a chance to revisit it from a current perspective.
I don't think the 60s generation had any more or less faults than any other generation. One group gets called the Greatest Generation while other are near great or not great. Playing off one generation against another like that is bullshit.
My point, which I've made before, is that America will be better off when the Boomer generation -- of which I am a member -- dies off. That's also what Jethro was saying. How you got to mass murder I don't know.
I'm disgusted with the extremes to which they have taken all the ideals they started out with. We have reverse racism, infanticide, speech codes, generations dependent on government largess, victim mentality, rampant illigitimacy and sexually transmitted diseases, disrespect for the military (and its apalling use as a social experiment), the feminization of boys, cultural relativism, the elevation of "nature" over humans, denigration of religion and a bloated central government. And that's just for starters.
"I'm disgusted with the extremes to which they have taken all the ideals they started out with. "
If I were to agree with you, which I don't. I could say that the previous generation did a crappy job of teaching and instilling those ideals. Probably because fathers were aloof and out of touch. Racisim was a rampant in south and tolerated by the group that fought for liberty in WWII. Government was bloated by a military budget that ballooned over the year, forceing private businesses to survive by the government trough. Women often suffered through terrible marriages and kept uneducated and low skilled. Cites were a polluted mess ridden with crime and smog. And that's just for starters.
They inheret their circumstances. In the case of the 60s generation, they had divisive and poorly defined war forced upon them. A president was assassinated. One hundred years aftter the end of slavary there was a uprising in the south. Time cracked. They dealt with it as they could.
It became the "I want it all and I want it now!" generation.
Paying attention to civil rights was a good thing. But like everything else that was "wrong" with America, the solution became the problem. And Congress, predictably, decided that the best way to handle it was to throw money at it. There's an entire industry and thousands, maybe millions, of jobs dependent on it, that still acts like racism is rampant in this country. Well, actually, it is, but now it's called Affirmative Action and Diversity and all the other catch-phrases.
Cleaning up the air and water was a good thing. But now we have put people out of work and destroyed businesses to save insects.
There is no military draft. We have a superb volunteer military. But they can't recruit on campuses and ROTC has been banned all over the place. Boot camp has been feminized so women can pass the tests.
While we see support for suicide bombings cut in half in countries like Lebanon, Pakistan, Indonesia, Morocco and confidence in Osama dropping at similar rate, http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248Â those that sacrificed the much are facing anti war protestors as they recover at
"Except for very few instances, the destruction of our water and air has continued, unabated, since the early 1800's and the beginnings of the industrial revolution."
I think the cities are cleaner now than they were 40 years ago. It helped a lot when they got rid of leaded gasoline and added anti-pollution features in cars. Expensive, but worth it.
"Reality TV could turn out to be the most durable Western import in Iraq. It has taken root with considerably greater ease than American-style democracy. Since spring 2004, when "Materials and Labor" made its debut, a constellation of reality shows has burst onto TV screens across Iraq."
and:
"Since its start, the show has financed the repair of six homes. Two of those were destroyed by car bombs, two during the detonation of munitions by American soldiers, one by American armor and the sixth by an American airstrike. (After being rebuilt by Al Sharqiya, one of the homes had its windows blown out again by an explosion.)"
All those who support the American war in Iraq should make a deal with anyone opposed to the war. Offer to answer any 20 questions the opponents wish to ask if they will answer just one: Â Do you believe we are fighting evil people in Iraq?
1600 Candleight Vigils for an end to the war, Nationwide yesterday...?
Yeah, with about 4 people at each of them.
Even the one in MPLS over the Lake Street bridge only had about 100 people.
As much as people may not like this war, most agree we need to stay for the long haul.
Most would agree that we don't even know what "the long haul" means exactly.
"Even the one in MPLS over the Lake Street bridge only had about 100 people."
Did you read or hear that somewhere, or did you just suppose that's how many were there?
At the risk of looking nit-picky
Some dumb people wanted peace and stuff. Pfft, who needs it?
Did you read or hear that somwhere, or did you just suppose that's how many were there?
I saw it on the news last night. From what they showed, it didn't look anything like 1,200.
Even if it was 5,000, it's not that many.
No, not that many.
I pray that Good Morning America, Nightline etc. keep giving Cindy all the press she wants. Thank You Cindy :)
"We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We’re waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"
So declared Cindy Sheehan earlier this year during a rally at San Francisco State University.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htmÂ
Thanks Cindy !
Â
Â
What do you mean now that they found a way to coordinate them? Move On. Org has been doing them for a long time as well as other organiztions.
Â
Of course it will get worse, the media will make sure of it. The loons turn up for the cameras. Mrs Sheehan will become the gift that keeps on giving. I understand her grief. I wish her nothing but comfort. I simply disagree with her. But her rhetoric is over the top and frankly makes her look foolish.
Please keep on makin them political predictions Bill :)
Of course it ebbs and flows. I just don't think it is the degree of ebb you think it is. Polls are meaningless emotional snapshots. I also think that the media has become great at making news instead of reporting it. They are not all to blame nor are the people that use them they feed off of each other. Watch what happens at any event when a camera shows up. People act differently. The thing is Bill that the war was in full swinging insurgent mode when the election took place. Will people get tired of it? Sure, if there was some semblance of balance in the media it might be different. All I know is that a defeat in Iraq would be a defeat for us, for Iraq humanity and freedom period. What bothers the shit out of me to no end is that some would rather score political points than have a decent outcome.
Yea, they love that booger flickin stuff. They love the Hitler comparisons too.....
Bill, FYIl I have to fly so If i don't respond back till tomorrow.....
If she was a rightie, and she was camped-out at Clinton's place when he was being impeached? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She'd be a National Hero to the right.
She'd be our disgrace. I'd say she should get a fucking job instead of camping outside of Clinton's place for weeks on end harassing him.
But you can bet one thing is for sure... there will be more protests, now that they have found a way to coordinate them, and I will be at the very next one. As it was in 1970, so it is in 2005.
Another prediction I need to bookmark. btw: 10yrT is down 11bp from a week ago, and 30yrM is down 9bp.
Yes, but they didn't have a lightning-rod like Ms. Sheehan, nor so much anger at Gdubb's handling of the war in IRAQ, falling poll numbers to THE lowest he has ever seen and now, even people in Texas willing to tell him to go fuck himself, such as his neighbor, the one who is allowing Ms. Sheehan to move onto his "Ranch", 1 mile from Dubb?
She's a lightning bug. She'll be forgotten within six weeks. Two months at most.
It will get worse. I don't care if you don't believe that, but it is the truth. I've seen it before. Watch the news tonight, then next week... This is just the start... And GDubb could have defused it, a week ago.
He'd be a fool to meet with her. There's nothing he can do that she or or her fellow wack jobs would be happy with. He's not going to change his strategy in Iraq, therefore meeting with her/them would be a waste of his and their time.
Sharon giving back GAZA? WOW.
::sigh::
Uhm, the Bush administration has backed this plan.
Ok, I've had enough of this nonsense.
I'll just have to bookmark for later use.
Jesus man, you Hate this woman.
She's the hateful one. I'm just pointing it out. Don't shoot the messenger.
So What?
It went right over your head.....
Hell, that's nothing... Von called her "the anti-Christ"
No problem, Bill.
The poor woman has now gone to her mother, who just had a stroke. She's getting a lot piled on to her. I hope she wants and is able to get some privacy from the press.
Privacy from the press? You're kidding, right?
She's in TX and can't get enough of it. She's in CA and expects none?
Ahhhh, no. She brought them on herself. She can't have it both ways.
Yeah, well obviously your head has been self-slammed one too many times, because YOU are the one that has been "shooting the messenger" all fucking week. As in... "Crazy Woman"?
I think she is crazy.
Hell man, you have called her everything except (please forgive me Muskwa), a C-nt.
I have? What exactly have I called her? What have I said that is so evil and has offended you so much?
BTW: I don't think I've ever used the "C" word in my life. That's more your age group and your style.
Shit... go ahead man. That's what you want to call her anyway.
I've said what I want to say, and I don't need the likes of you trying to put words in my mouth.
I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, because she's a grieving mother who is losing her husband, her family has turned against her, and her mother is ill. All that together could make a person kinda crazy. I think she's being used. I also think that she doesn't understand that she is dishonoring her son.
I would bet that she was crazy long before this.
The fact remains, that the population is rejecting Dubbya and Neo Conservatism in THRONGS man, and that makes you angry.
Ah, to perpetually live in a fantasy world...it must be great!
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Constitution-Text.html
Partial Text of the Iraqi Constitution
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
</NYT_BYLINE>
Published: August 23, 2005
<NYT_TEXT>
Filed at 5:59 p.m. ET
PREAMBLE
We the people of Iraq, newly arisen from our disasters and looking with confidence to the future through a democratic, federal, republican system, are determined -- men and women, old and young -- to respect the rule of law, reject the policy of aggression, pay attention to women and their rights, the elderly and their cares, the children and their affairs, spread the culture of diversity and defuse terrorism.
We are the people of Iraq, who in all our forms and groupings undertake to establish our union freely and by choice, to learn yesterday's lessons for tomorrow, and to write down this permanent constitution from the high values and ideals of the heavenly messages and the developments of science and human civilization, and to adhere to this constitution, which shall preserve for Iraq its free union of people, land and sovereignty...
in sharia and law,
Both perhaps?
I don't like some of what I see in this "partial text" of the constitution. In fact, some of it seems to contradict itself.
Not good to setup an official religion of a nation.
Doesn't much of Islamic law contradict basic principals of democracy and other freedoms outlined in this constitution (rights of women to vote for example)?
Hopefully they can iron things out and come up with an exceptable constitution.
Depends on who it's acceptable to.
"No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam."
Depends a lot on the word "undisputed" there. I think defining "undesputed" depends a lot on what group holds power. The U.S. has propped up a more fundamentalist branch of Islam.
It's an age-old tactic. Play one group against another. Take one group out of power and support them against the group that's in power.
Bill, I think she's dishonoring her son by verbally supporting the people who killed him, whom she has called "freedom fighters." He was an adult, he made his choices, and she's saying that the President, who was elected by the people, killed him -- in other words, he was killed by his own country. I'm quite sure he would not agree with her.
Hippies smell
Thanks, Bill, I'll look for it. I was very involved in the events of the '60s and I always look forward to a chance to revisit it from a current perspective.
it will be a good thing when the '60's generation passes into history.
I agree.
I don't think the 60s generation had any more or less faults than any other generation. One group gets called the Greatest Generation while other are near great or not great. Playing off one generation against another like that is bullshit.
My point, which I've made before, is that America will be better off when the Boomer generation -- of which I am a member -- dies off. That's also what Jethro was saying. How you got to mass murder I don't know.
I'm disgusted with the extremes to which they have taken all the ideals they started out with. We have reverse racism, infanticide, speech codes, generations dependent on government largess, victim mentality, rampant illigitimacy and sexually transmitted diseases, disrespect for the military (and its apalling use as a social experiment), the feminization of boys, cultural relativism, the elevation of "nature" over humans, denigration of religion and a bloated central government. And that's just for starters.
"I'm disgusted with the extremes to which they have taken all the ideals they started out with. "
If I were to agree with you, which I don't. I could say that the previous generation did a crappy job of teaching and instilling those ideals. Probably because fathers were aloof and out of touch. Racisim was a rampant in south and tolerated by the group that fought for liberty in WWII. Government was bloated by a military budget that ballooned over the year, forceing private businesses to survive by the government trough. Women often suffered through terrible marriages and kept uneducated and low skilled. Cites were a polluted mess ridden with crime and smog. And that's just for starters.
I didn't say things shouldn't have changed. I said that the remedies were taken to extremes.
Generations play the hand they're dealt.
Explain.
They inheret their circumstances. In the case of the 60s generation, they had divisive and poorly defined war forced upon them. A president was assassinated. One hundred years aftter the end of slavary there was a uprising in the south. Time cracked. They dealt with it as they could.
It became the "I want it all and I want it now!" generation.
Paying attention to civil rights was a good thing. But like everything else that was "wrong" with America, the solution became the problem. And Congress, predictably, decided that the best way to handle it was to throw money at it. There's an entire industry and thousands, maybe millions, of jobs dependent on it, that still acts like racism is rampant in this country. Well, actually, it is, but now it's called Affirmative Action and Diversity and all the other catch-phrases.
Cleaning up the air and water was a good thing. But now we have put people out of work and destroyed businesses to save insects.
There is no military draft. We have a superb volunteer military. But they can't recruit on campuses and ROTC has been banned all over the place. Boot camp has been feminized so women can pass the tests.
I could go on.
While we see support for suicide bombings cut in half in countries like Lebanon, Pakistan, Indonesia, Morocco and confidence in Osama dropping at similar rate, http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248Â those that sacrificed the much are facing anti war protestors as they recover at
Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C. Many who lost buddies at the same time that they were injured are reminded of the incident by caskets left outside by the protestors.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200508\SPE20050825a.html
Â
But they support the troops, don't you know.
"It became the "I want it all and I want it now!" generation."
I don't know about that. But even if it's true someone must have given them the idea it was theirs for the taking.
"Except for very few instances, the destruction of our water and air has continued, unabated, since the early 1800's and the beginnings of the industrial revolution."
I think the cities are cleaner now than they were 40 years ago. It helped a lot when they got rid of leaded gasoline and added anti-pollution features in cars. Expensive, but worth it.
The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas..
This Old War-torn House
"Reality TV could turn out to be the most durable Western import in Iraq. It has taken root with considerably greater ease than American-style democracy. Since spring 2004, when "Materials and Labor" made its debut, a constellation of reality shows has burst onto TV screens across Iraq."
and:
"Since its start, the show has financed the repair of six homes. Two of those were destroyed by car bombs, two during the detonation of munitions by American soldiers, one by American armor and the sixth by an American airstrike. (After being rebuilt by Al Sharqiya, one of the homes had its windows blown out again by an explosion.)"
And the crowds grow...
as I said they would.
Fold is still in La-La land.
All those who support the American war in Iraq should make a deal with anyone opposed to the war. Offer to answer any 20 questions the opponents wish to ask if they will answer just one:
Â
Do you believe we are fighting evil people in Iraq?
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20050830.shtml
do the people we are fighting believe they are fighting evil people?