so you convince people there's this new "disease" whose symptoms are naturally occurring in all males with at least one functioning testicle?
problem is, you can't isolate a gene through the use of a drug. in order for that to work, you would literally have to turn off specific receptors in the brain, in what would literally be a chemical lobotomy. and the problem with that is that the brain is a "use it or lose it" mass of neurons. stop using a section of it, and eventually, those neural connections stop working.
Even if the drug Libitopro worked, the marketing plan laid out by Paula is a guaranteed failure.
"There is hope for a new you, a more confident, less distracted, more successful, healthier you.
The benefits seen in experiments have been increased intellectual abilities, more confidence, increased social communication, and a general feeling of well being."
The average guy would have three words for those cliams:
Dr. Spencer was white-haired and kindly. He inserted something to dilate X's cervix and told us to come back in the morning. l have no memory of that evening. In the morning, Dr. Spencer installed me in a tiny room to wait it out, and took X away. The room had a chair, cot, afghan, and a black paperback, Crimes of Passion. I envisioned telling X's parents where we were, why, and that she was dead. Eventually, Dr. Spencer returned with X over his shoulder in a fireman's carry, out cold. He gently unloaded her onto the cot; her eyes were rolled back so only the whites showed. After she came to and had rested, he checked her, gave her post-op instructions and antibiotics, and wished her well. The entire charge, including anesthesia, was $50.
Dr. Spencer, I later learned, was the beloved town doctor, shielded by the locals and the police, and a hero to women around the nation. He's in all the books about illegal abortions, and is the subject of a documentary, "Dear Dr. Spencer: Abortion in a Small Town." His file of requests from desperate women and thanks from grateful women is like volumes of "Lest We Forgets." Women still put flowers on his grave. X and I learned how lucky we were when we heard others' horror stories: the huge fees that back-alley butchers and legitimate doctors required in cash, women driven around blindfolded so they couldn't say where the deed was done, forced sex or sodomy with the abortionist before he'd get to work, tied hands, mouths stuffed to stifle screams from abortions without anesthesia, unsanitary equipment, hemorrhages, lies to emergency room doctors, and newspaper reports of women who died trying not to become mothers.
--A personal pre-Roe v. Wade account by Polly Rothstein, Westchester (Connecticut) Coalition for Legal Abortions, Inc.
Amazing! Give men a pill to kill their sex drive?!?!? NO! My God, Paula! Why would you want to remove the only reason women put up with men at all!! Other than auto repair and lawn maintenance, of course.
I do not believe that rights come without attendant responsibilities. Since the woman is pretty much damned whatever she decides, I also believe that the decision to abort or not rests with her and her alone. I do not believe that anyone has the right to come between a woman and her maker for whatever reason. This is a path where she may consult with others but must make the final decision herself and then bear the consequences. As some have attested to in here, it is not an easy decision to make nor are the consequences easy to accept and bear, but any woman who is not just a 'little girl dressed up in a woman suit', stands up and rejects the idea of victimhood without reservation. We all will stand and be judged but for our sins alone - as in I will not be condemned for Mr. Daumer's actions.
To return to the amusement, now. Considering how much is being spent on getting it up, I strongly doubt that there will be any market for putting it to rest.
Amazing! Give men a pill to kill their sex drive?!?!? NO! My God, Paula! Why would you want to remove the only reason women put up with men at all!! Other than auto repair and lawn maintenance, of course.
ROTFL!
I know, I haven't worked out all the bugs yet. But what if this "magic pill" actually made them be more prone to doing chores and giving back to society in general.
Don't you think places like Africa and Afghanistan could use a little of this, at least while they are educated and a couple generations go by without warring tribes and men who brutalize women in so many ways?
"I don't believe in abortion and would never have one myself. But you may feel differently. Since we live in a free country, you have to make your own decision."
Or if they'd simply, honestly acknowledge:
"No, a fetus isn't really a 'baby', with rights just like those of a pregnant woman. But it would ultimately become one, and it's that result I'd personally want to assure."
And how pleased we'd be if just once they'd admit:
"I understand that women and girls become pregnant against their wishes for a variety of reasons, many certainly beyond their control. I would never make their lives harder by condemning either their circumstance, or the way it came about."
But above all else, we could begin to share common ground if only these words were spoken:
"It would be medically, scientifically and legally absurd to say that abortion is 'murder'. It's a surgical procedure I don't agree with, since it stops a pregnancy before a developing embryo has a chance at independent viability. But I wouldn't even begin to think about forcing others to comply with my belief via a government abortion ban.
"I know how many females were killed and wounded back when abortion was outlawed. We can't go back to the bad old days.
"All I can legitimately ask is that you give the matter your most careful, heartfelt consideration. Whatever your choice, I'll still be here for you.
"Friends don't try to criminalize friends simply because they disagree."
Dennis, please look at the meaning for "fetus" because you have not a clue what you just said. As for the rest of your post, I can not condone the killing of an innocent human being.
Day 1 - your life began at the moment of conception
Day 7 - you implanted in your mother's uterus
Day 10 - your mother's menstrual period stopped
Day 18 - your heart began to beat
Day 21 - you pumped your own blood, with your won blood type, through a separate, closed circulatory system
Day 28 - your eye, ear and respiratory system began to form
Day 42 - your brainwaves were recorded; your skeleton was complete, your reflexes were present
7 weeks - you sucked your thumb
8 weeks - all your body systems were present
9weeks - you squinted, swallowed, moved your tongue, and made a fist
11 weeks - all of your body systems worked: you breathed spontaneously; your fingernails were present
12 weeks - you weighed only one ounce
16 weeks - your genital organs were clearly differentiated; you grasped with your hands, swam, kicked, turned, somersaulted (still not felt by your mother)
18 weeks - your vocal cords worked and you could cry
20 weeks - you had hair on your head; you weighed one pound and were 12 inches long
The New England Journal of Medicine reported that: 15 percent of babies born premature at 23 weeks survive* 56 percent of babies born premature at 24 weeks survive* 79 percent of babies born premature at 25 weeks survive*
source M. Allen et al . "The Limits of Viability," New England Journal of Medicine 11/25/93: vol:329. No. 22 p. 1597
The New England Journal of Medicine reported that: 15 percent of babies born premature at 23 weeks survive* 56 percent of babies born premature at 24 weeks survive* 79 percent of babies born premature at 25 weeks survive* Â Â
And we kill them legally at will. What a sad statement on our society. Oh that's right, I forgot it's not life. Whatever, keep telling yourself that, sleep well.
Ok Dennis, What do you have for those women who have had an abortion and are now suffering depression, grief, and are emotionally cripple?
What does your favored organization do for them now?
I have regrets in life. I wish I would have done better in college and actually graduated. I wish I would have managed my money better and had better credit. These are things that could potentially cause me problems all of my life. Yet I'd hardly be in favor of the idea of having the government force me to graduate college or force me to have good credit. The price of our freedom of will is that we sometimes make bad decisions. Yet I for one would not argue that the price is too high. This is the land of freedom and that includes the freedom to make mistakes. Thus the argument that some women have abortions and later regret it is meaningless in trying to get abortion banned. It might be a reason to better regulate abortions to make sure those seeking them are well informed, but when we start passing laws that favor a life free of pain instead of a life full of freedom, then not only have we lost sight of what we stand for as a nation, we've begun to lose sight of what it means to be human.
I have regrets in life. I wish I would have done better in college and actually graduated. I wish I would have managed my money better and had better credit.
And none of this has anything to do with life and death.
It might be a reason to better regulate abortions to make sure those seeking them are well informed, but when we start passing laws that favor a life free of pain instead of a life full of freedom, then not only have we lost sight of what we stand for as a nation, we've begun to lose sight of what it means to be human.
All who favor abortion have long ago lost sight of what it means to be human.
I said...Ok Dennis, What do you have for those women who have had an abortion and are now suffering depression, grief, and are emotionally cripple?
Still no answer from him.
What does PP do for grief counseling? For post abortion counseling?
Allison Wonderland 6/17/02 9:17am>The price of our freedom of will is that we sometimes make bad decisions. Yet I for one would not argue that the price is too high.
A teenager, in my experience, lacks the maturity to make a decision as monumental as abortion and when the after effects kick in, the results are overwhelmingly negative.
Thus the argument that some women have abortions and later regret it is meaningless in trying to get abortion banned.
What you fail to understand is... There is tremendous lasting damage done to someone who has had an abortion.
You go to have an abortion, you are not allowed to meet and speak w/the doctor first, despite your request, and the pre-abortion person is using the best sales techniques, playing on all your vulnerabilities, then, although still scared, you feel enough courage after the "talk" to continue, she disingenuously holds your hand, then you wait for the doctor. He tells you, it will be ok, you'll only feel slight cramping, it's just some tissue at this stage, it will be over in a few minutes, etc...
And then feel the enormous pain as you cry and try not to scream, Your recovery time is extended, you pass out leaving the office, come back and rest for another hour, they say you were probably just dehydrated, tell you to drink a lot of water/juice. The sick feeling continues for a few days after, the bleeding, cramping, fatigue, and the depression, and emotional loss start to kick in.
You feel like you've been raped... but you were so naive... and being scared you panicked... and so the next few days you pray and you cry, and you are grieving and numb ... but it was supposed to make things better. NOT! And the decision haunts you your entire life.
.......And then, from that day forward....... you are never the same.
Carrie Camilleri of LA says - "I was an emotional wreck. The following day I was empty, sad, numb. I knew that day I had made a huge mistake. I wish with all my heart I would have done things differently."
Tewannah Aman of Ft. Lauderdale says - "I was 18 when I got pregnant. At three months pregnant, I had an abortion. About seven years later...my heart was broke. I was so overcome with grief. How could I have taken the life of my unborn child?"
Abortion is exploitation in it's worse form. For crisis pregnancy help or post abortion counseling, call: toll-free 1-800-848-5683
"We are to show to those in need His goodness to ourselves. ..." This phrase at Mass speaks to my heart, reminding me of the despair, the grief, the pain of abortion from which Christ delivered me. It reminds me also of my duty to give hope to those still suffering, to help point the way to a place of shelter and peace in the heart of Jesus. And so, I relate my experience--unique and personal, but not unlike the stories of many other women. But this story is not, finally, about me. It’s about our good and merciful God ... always there, wanting to forgive us and make us whole again.
At 18 I honestly believed I was the only one not having sex. I gave in to peer pressure and slept with someone I was seeing occasionally. I remember vividly the day I phoned the doctor for my test results and learned I was pregnant. After months of denial, I was nearly four months pregnant, so I knew the answer long before the word "positive" was uttered. I was overwhelmed by a range a feelings: happiness at the thought of a child growing within me, but also fear of telling my parents—the reason I had "denied" it for so long.
I immediately told the father of the child, and we decided to get married. Although we planned to tell our parents together, I blurted the truth to my mother and father. Their reaction took me by surprise. Shocked, angry and disappointed, they told me to leave the house and forget that I was their daughter. In retrospect, their reaction was understandable. They believed that premarital sex was wrong and thought it would be a disgrace to have a child out of wedlock. At least, I thought, my parents were practicing Catholics and would never ask me to abort my child. I left the house with no job, no money, no home and nowhere to turn, feeling utterly abandoned and alone. It wasn’t long before the baby's father and I broke up. Still, I was certain I would not get an abortion. I wanted my child.
A friend's mother invited me to stay in their home. I had no idea how I could support the baby and myself, and things began to feel hopeless. During this period, my father sent several messages urging me to have an abortion. He even offered to pay for it. I refused. But as I began to feel more desperate, I decided, finally, to let the abortion happen. I shut down my feelings and went through the motions, functioning more like an observer in a surreal world than someone in control.
Thirty years later, I still can't remember how I got to the hospital. But I do remember being alone in the hospital room when a doctor entered, and I'll never forget the sadistic look on his face as he injected saline into my abdomen. No one explained to me the baby's development or what the abortion would be like. I had no idea what was going to happen. I lay there just wishing that I could die. I could feel the baby thrashing around as his skin and lungs were burned by the saline. He was dying. Labor began. After twelve hours of labor, alone in the room, I gave birth to a dead baby boy.
I looked at his tiny feet and hands. All I wanted to do was pick up my son and put him back inside of me. I couldn’t fathom what I had done. I rang for the nurse. She came in, picked up my son and dumped him in what looked like a large mayonnaise jar, a jar marked 3A. Then she left the room and I was alone again, filled with hatred for myself. The thought of death seemed comforting. My downward spiral had only just begun.
After the abortion I flew to California to spend time with my sister and her family so I could get my bearings again. I wasn’t the same person anymore. I went through the motions of daily living, but I had no desire for anything. At night, in the room I shared with my two-year-old niece, I’d lie awake asking God over and over again to forgive me.
Three months later I returned to the New York area. Although I was not in contact with my father, my mom would slip out to meet me occasionally. Still trying to run away from myself, I moved to Florida. During my two years there, I called my dad and we began speaking again, although never mentioning my abortion.
When I returned to the area, I found a job and outwardly things seemed fine. But nothing was as it seemed. I tried hard not to think about who I was and what I had done. When I thought about my dead child, I would become depressed and despairing. Desperate to be loved, I became involved with the man I would marry, even though he was emotionally and psychologically abusive to me.
Two years later I was thrilled to be pregnant with our first child. But I was also afraid that God would punish me for the abortion, that something would be wrong with my child. I prayed constantly that the baby would not have to suffer for my sins, and was immensely relieved when he was born healthy.
The marriage began to fall apart soon after the baby’s birth. My husband was abusing alcohol and we were arguing all the time. We tried counseling to salvage our marriage. Knowing that my abortion was at the root of my problems, I told the counselor about it. He told me to just forget about it. It was in the past. I could not make him understand that the abortion was very much in the present because I was living with the consequences every day.
For awhile my husband stayed sober, and I became pregnant with our second child. By the time I was to give birth, however, his addiction was again full-blown. The night our second child was born, I did not expect my husband to be there. By the time he got home, I was well along in labor and we barely made it to the hospital in time. The birth of my third son was anything but joyous. I didn't know how I was going to care for two children, living with someone addicted to alcohol. Unlike the husbands of mothers around me, my husband did not show up the next day; he was recovering from a hangover. I lay alone in a hospital room, but this time my child was alive.
Soon after I brought the baby home, my husband overdosed and had to be rushed to the hospital. The incident helped me to begin breaking the cycle. During his two-week hospital stay, I began to enjoy my children for the first time. I didn't have to worry about where he was or what he was doing. I gave the children my full attention. I promised myself that I would not let them grow up in an abusive home, and that if he didn’t straighten out, the children and I would begin a life for ourselves.
I kept my sanity by praying and reading the Bible. My husband stayed sober for two years before it began all over again. The day my older son, then four, told me to hide in the closet when he saw his father coming home, I knew we would have to leave. For myself, I may well have stayed in that abusive relationship forever, but I did not want the boys to experience abuse. One day when my husband was drinking again, I took the children and walked out the door. Once again I found myself with no job, no money, no home. This time, thank God, I had my children.
My sister took me in to her already full apartment, and with my family's help (in this crisis I had their full support), I began to get my life together. Shortly after I walked out, my husband ended up in a rehab, so the boys and I were able to move back into our apartment. I found a job. Within a year or two I returned to school to train as a substance abuse counselor. My family helped me both financially and by helping to care for the boys. I could not have made it without them.
After graduation, one of my teachers offered me a job. I thought I had finally gotten it together. Little did I realize how fragile this new life was.
By this time I had grown in my spiritual life and had a relationship with God, even though I did not truly know Him and still kept a distance from church. I still suffered from depression, entertained thoughts of suicide and had very low self esteem; the fact that I had been one of the few from my class offered a job did not raise my self-esteem. In time, as I struggled with my personal problems, my professional work began to suffer. I experienced "burn out." It was devastating to have worked so hard to achieve what I had and then become unable to function. I realize now that it was God’s way of drawing me closer to Him.
I quit my job and struggled to stay out of the hospital. My dad supported me and the kids. I just moved through life. Every day it was a challenge just to get out of bed and take care of the boys. I did, however, begin attending Mass again, sitting in the back of the church, certain that everyone knew I had had an abortion, certain that the walls would come crashing down on me. But I went, listening for some word of hope that I could be forgiven for my terrible, "unforgivable" sin. By then my older son was seven and ready to make his first penance. At a meeting for the parents, a priest talked about God's mercy and His desire to forgive any sin, even the sin of abortion. I remember thinking: Can this be true? Did I hear him correctly? Will God really forgive abortion? That evening I left with the first inkling of hope I had known in ten years.
It took time and courage, but I decided to contact that priest and ask him to hear my confession. Scared and nervous, I made the first confession in many years. The priest was gentle, trying to make it as easy as he could for me. He showed great empathy and support. At last, I was on my way home.
I began to see the priest regularly for spiritual direction. At first, all I could see was darkness. It was an effort to do the things he asked, like examining my life, because I was sure I would uncover only what a terrible person I was. But I was tired of the depression and desperate enough to try. I felt sorry for my children who had a mom who cried a lot and simply couldn’t cope with life. I wanted more for the three of us. And so I prayed, went to Mass every day and spent time before the Blessed Sacrament. I needed so badly to trust in this God I had been told was so good.
Still I could not forgive myself. I continued to struggle with depression. I would beg Jesus for healing. I felt bad that I had not reached full healing, and my confessor's eyes showed his own sadness over my continued struggle. I understand now that the fullness of healing must come in God's time.
One night I felt depressed and suicidal again, but despite these feelings, I also somehow felt a deep trust in God. I didn't want the children to see me crying again, so after putting them to bed, I closed myself in the bathroom, crouched on the floor, and repeated over and over "Jesus, I trust in You." I don't know how many hours I did this, but well into the night I had an experience that changed my life. I experienced being on the cross with Christ. But instead of experiencing suffering, I felt love so intense that it was capable of taking away that pain. I felt His love wash away my sin and I knew my healing was complete.
I have never since felt the despair of abortion, only the profound love and forgiveness Christ gave me. I've watched my life be transformed, miraculously, as I've been privileged to help countless women and men suffering from abortion's aftermath. Christ's love transformed not only my life, but the lives of those I love.
Before my mother died, I learned that my abortion had caused her great suffering, although she had never told me. One day when we were watching TV, abortion was mentioned. She said, "Well, sometimes it’s all right to have an abortion." I said, "Mom, it is never all right." God gave us this moment of grace. She told me that my abortion was her sin and that she would take it to the grave with her. I was able to comfort her, telling her that we both bore responsibility for it. I told her that I forgave her and asked her to forgive me. After that my mother went to confession to the same priest I had seen for direction, and she felt that her terrible burden was lifted.
Most difficult was telling my children. I felt that God was calling me to speak out about abortion, but I knew I couldn't unless my children knew first. I was terrified they would hate me. It took me years to muster the courage. By now I was active in the pro-life movement and they had been brought up to respect human life. I planned to tell them many times, but each time I backed out, afraid to say the words. Finally one day I knew I was being given the grace to talk to them.
How can I describe that day? I trembled as I told them of how our lives had come to be as they were. If not for my abortion, they would not be living in a fatherless household or seeing the strained relationship between my father and me.
The boys wrestled with their feelings. They were angry at me. They grieved for the brother they never knew. They felt guilty for surviving. It took time, a lot of talking, and the grace of God, but they understood finally why things were as they were, and why I had spent years crying. They grew closer to God, and we grew closer to one another. I didn’t speak publicly right away. The boys needed time to deal with their feelings and cope with the loss of their brother before I would do that. I was even resigned and at peace with the fact that the day might never come. But a few years later, they gave me their blessing. To say I am proud of them is an understatement. They have become great advocates for life.
I’ve now worked for some years with the Sisters of Life, conducting Days of Prayer and Healing for those suffering abortion’s trauma. I am grateful to be able to stand alongside the Sisters at the foot of the cross and minister to these children of God, and blessed to watch them be transformed by His love and forgiveness. I have witnessed countless miracles of His mercy and am convinced that God is marshaling an army of once-wounded women and men to dispel the lies of abortion.
Saint Faustina Kowalska's diary, Divine Mercy in My Soul, tells of words spoken to her by Christ: "Let the greatest sinners place their trust in my mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. My daughter, write about My mercy towards tormented souls. Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than asked. I cannot punish even the greatest sinner if he makes an appeal to my compassion, but on the contrary, I justify him in my unfathomable and inscrutable mercy."
I know that this is true.
Jesus I trust in You.
Theresa Bonopartis assists the Sisters of Life and the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in conducting spiritual retreats for those wounded by abortion.
You go to have an abortion, you are not allowed to meet and speak w/the doctor first, despite your request,...
If all that is even true, it's just a problem with the methodology, not the act itself. It's like saying we should ban corporations because some have been known to engage in shady dealings.
Carrie Camilleri of LA says - "I was an emotional wreck. The following day I was empty, sad, numb. I knew that day I had made a huge mistake. I wish with all my heart I would have done things differently."
I'm sure there are women that feel that way. Is making abortion illegal the way to fix that? I seriously doubt it. You can't consider what her frame of mind was 7 years later. You have to go to her frame of mind at the time of the abortion. Had it been illegal would she have not gotten one, or would she have possibly sought one elsewhere and ended up being even worse off?
I'm willing to concede the point that perhaps abortions shouldn't be done by for-profit clinics. It's simply the nature of capitalism that they need to do so many abortions to make enough money to stay in business, and consequently it's not in their interest to fully present all the options. (Maybe they should be combination abortion clinics/adoption agencies so they can make money either way). Still I don't think current bad business practices are sufficient grounds to make abortion entirely illegal.
If I worked at an abortion clinic, I certainly wouldn't push abortion as the first otpion to consider. Once you do it, you can't undo it, and that is certainly something to consider. People's attitudes do change over time and it's entirely possible that a woman may be okay with an abortion today and still regret it tomorrow. I think any and every woman who is contemplating an abortion deserves to know all their options and the possible consequences of each, just as you would expect with any medical procedure. But then at that point, I think you still have to leave the decision up to her.
And yes, it's true that some, probably even most women I would guess who get abortions are teenagers. Does that make it harder for them to make a rational decision? In most cases I would say so. The ones who are mature enough to make a good decision probably wouldn't be in that situation to begin with. But there's still a trust issue here. A young girl may be afraid to tell her parents she is pregnant for whatever reason, perhaps even rightfully so. Quite often, in the end, it is the girl who will have to make the decision, however young she may be. At this point limiting options can only push them to desperation. It's entirely possible she may try to abort the child herself if she feels she has no other options and not only kill the child, but possibly herself.
That's why we need unrestricted access to abortions. That trust factor needs to be there that if a young girl is pregnant, and doesn't want to be, she should feel she has a place to go where she can seek a safe solution. Ideally, at that point, once the trust is there and she comes in, she should be presented with all of her options and the pros and cons of each. Hopefully she'll find a better one, but if not, then she should be allowed to have the abortion she seeks. If, for even a moment, she believes she won't get what she wants, she won't even come in and will never be aware of what her options were. Not only does the fetus lose at that point anyway, but so does the mother.
A world without abortions would be a great thing. Making them illegal isn't the way to achieve it. In the end it does more harm than good. If the present business practices of abortion clinics isn't acceptable, then they should be changed, but banning abortion altogether isn't what's best for the women in our society and it never will be.
Allison Wonderland 6/17/02 1:36pmI'm willing to concede the point that perhaps abortions shouldn't be done by for-profit clinics. It's simply the nature of capitalism that they need to do so many abortions to make enough money to stay in business, and consequently it's not in their interest to fully present all the options. (Maybe they should be combination abortion clinics/adoption agencies so they can make money either way). Still I don't think current bad business practices are sufficient grounds to make abortion entirely illegal.
I love it when you're willing to concede! Your first point in the above paragraph was excellent.
That's why we need unrestricted access to abortions. That trust factor needs to be there that if a young girl is pregnant, and doesn't want to be, she should feel she has a place to go where she can seek a safe solution. Ideally, at that point, once the trust is there and she comes in, she should be presented with all of her options and the pros and cons of each.
No, No, No! That is why we need a better support for the girl to help her go thru the pregnancy. Then after the birth, she can make the best decision for both her and the child.
Like on the news the other day, there was a high school (Florida, I think) where they had a section in the H.S. yearbook with pictures of pregnant high school girls. I think it is a wonderful and positive message of support for those girls who stuck it out and walked the hard road and continued their education in an environment where they were respected and supported.
That is why we need a better support for the girl to help her go thru the pregnancy.
Well that too, but first she has to get to a point where she is willing to receive that help. When she first finds out she's pregnant, she could very well believe she has no other option other than abortion and isn't even aware of any other options. If she doesn't think there's someone out there who will help her with what *she* wants, then she may not seek help at all and could end up doing something dangerous and drastic.
Let's take it down a step and use an analogy.
Let's say you want to buy a car. And you're looking to buy a cheap car because you don't really want to spend much money. Now let's say I have a used car lot and for the most part I have a lot of good, reliable cars for sale, but they're not that cheap. Now if that's all I advertise, you'll never step foot on my lot because you'll see all these cars are out of your price range and price is all you're thinking about. But now let's say I get a couple of junkers in and I mark them at a low price and then I advertise that I have some cars that are cheap. You may see that ad and now you might decide to come visit my lot. And then when you get here, I can be willing to sell you that cheap car if that's what you really want, and I'll try to see to your satisfaction as best I can within the limits of what the car can offer, but I can also try and convince you that buying a more expensive, more reliable car really is worth the extra money. I may even be able to present you with financing options that you didn't realize were possible and prove to you that you really can own the nicer car. But if I wasn't willing to sell you the cheaper car if that's what you really wanted, you never would have come to see me and never would have gotten the nicer car. Instead you may have gone to some back alley and bought a cheap car off some guy who just happened to be selling one, only to have it break down a week later and become worthless. Now you have no car and no money.
I'm not going to argue that abortion is something that should be done haphazardly or without thought. But I will continue to maintain that it needs to at least remain a legal option.
But I will continue to maintain that it needs to at least remain a legal option.
Then why not raise the time period to say when they are 10 years old? Then, if they are not what you had wished or are too much of a bother, you can just abort them.
Then why not raise the time period to say when they are 10 years old? Then, if they are not what you had wished or are too much of a bother, you can just abort them.
Why 10? Why not 12? Or 18? Or two weeks as Paula suggested? It would just be an arbitrary line you'd be drawing. I think most people would prefer something a little less ambiguous, and there are only two such points, conception and birth. As for which one of those two you want to make the point at which the rights of personhood are assigned, that will depend a lot on your personal beliefs. But I can't think of too many benefits to waiting until any point after birth to kill it. By then it's an independent being and giving it the right to life doesn't infringe on someone else's rights to their own body.
As for my personal opinion, I believe you receive your soul at birth, and so to kill someone after birth really is murder. Before that, you've only killed a body, not a person.
The new proabortion slogan: I believe you receive your soul at birth, and so to kill someone after birth really is murder. Before that, you've only killed a body, not a person
To demonstrate how anti-choicers distort reality, please refer to Paula's post # 1021.
At first we see a number of claims about fetal development, key aspects of which I'll refute shortly, followed by three comments from The New England Journal of Medicine:
15 percent of babies born premature at 23 week survive* 56 percent of babies born premature at 24 weeks survive* 79 percent of babies born premature at 25 weeks survive*
Source: M. Allen et al., “The Limits of Viability,” New England Journal of Medicine, 11/25/93: Vol. 329, No. 22, p. 1597
The impression given is that the first list is an integral part of the second group of three statistics.
It is not.
They're uncredited assertions that are inaccurate and misleading, deliberately juxtaposed with the later as a deliberate sham.
Some women feel shame after having abortions because they've been aggressively guilt-tripped by anti-choicers via outlandish claims which relentlessly assert that zygotes, embryos and fetuses are as much actual babies as the ones Right To Life manipulatively depicts in its roadside billboards, crawling about, wearing bonnets and little sunglasses, playing with rattles, etc. Part of helping these abused women is to deprogram them with facts, as one would deprogram cult victims:
"7 weeks - you sucked your thumb (suggesting conscious insecurity)".
At this stage of pregnancy, all fetal movement is reflexive in nature rather than purposeful, since the latter requires cognition, which is the ability to perceive and know. For cognition to occur, the cortex (gray matter covering the brain) must be present, as well as myelinization (covering sheath) of the spinal cord and attached nerves, which is not the case. An example of the reflex movement at this stage of human pregnancy is thumb sucking in utero.
"12 weeks - you weighed one ounce."
It's at this point that anti-choice propagandists also claim a fetus can feel pain. But the brain and nervous system are still in a very early stage of development. The beginnings of the brain stem, which includes a rudimentary thalamus and spinal cord, is being formed. Most brain cells are not developed. Without a cerebral cortex, pain impulses cannot be received or perceived. Additionally, experts find that newborns at 26-27 weeks’ gestation (24-25 weeks’ fetal age) who survive have significantly less response to pain than do full term newborns.
12 weeks is often cited in anti-choice propaganda as a gestational time at which a fetus ("baby" in their demagoguery) is "no different" from a born person, and therefore supposedly having full rights. But what is the truth? A fetus of 12 weeks cannot in any way be compared to a fully formed functioning person. At this stage only rudiments of the organ systems are present. The fetus is unable to sustain life outside the woman’s womb, it is incapable of conscious thought; it is incapable of essential breathing. It is instead an in utero fetus with the potential of becoming a child.
"18 weeks - your vocal cords worked and you could cry."
Although primitive respiratory movements do occur in the later stages of gestation, crying or screaming cannot occur even then. In fact, a child born prematurely at 26-27 weeks’ gestation (24-25 weeks’ fetal age) cannot scream but occasionally emits weak cries.
Nothing is so shameful as the deplorable anti-choice tactic of using disinformational terrorism to attempt to disuade abortion.
(Medical facts herein from: Sally Faith Dorfman, MD, Assistant Professor, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Assistant Clinical Professor, Mount Sinai; Hart Peterson, MD, Chief of Pediatric Neurology, New York Hospital, Clinical Professor of Neurology in Pediatrics, Cornell University Medical Center; William Rashbaum, MD, Assistant Clinical Professor, Albert Einstein College of Medicine; Seymour L. Romney, MD, Professor, Ob/Gyn, Director, Gynecological Cancer Research, and former Chairman, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Albert Einstein College of Medicine; Allan Rosenfield, MD, Professor, Ob/Gyn and Public Health, Acting Chairman, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology Director, Center for Population and Family Health, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University; Herbert G. Vaughan, Jr. MD, Professor of Neuroscience, Neurology and Pediatrics, Director, Rose F. Kennedy Center for Research in Mental Retardation and Human Development, Albert Einstein College of Medicine; Ming-Neng Yeh, MD, Associate Clinical Professor, Dept. of Ob/Gyn Ultrasound Laboratory, Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center.)
As for my personal opinion, I believe you receive your soul at birth, and so to kill someone after birth really is murder. Before that, you've only killed a body, not a person.
This is what the whole arguement can be reduced to, isn't it? When does life begin? When does the body receive a soul? When are we murdering a child?
Until we can have irrefutable proof to answer these questions, wouldn't it make sense to err on the side of saving a child rather than erring on the side of killing a child?
How would you feel if tomorrow scientist find that a child receives his soul at conception and you realize that you have been condoning and encouraging people to kill their children?
If tomorrow scientist find that a child receives his soul at birth and you were right all along, I would feel satisfied knowing that I have erred on the side of safety for the child.
Until such questions can be answered, I will retain my stance in order to hopefully insure the inalienable right of a child to life.
No, I am not a feminazi. Stupid term! I fully enjoy men. But that does not mean that I am willing to put up with all of their bullshit - such as this 'feminazi' crap. The term was coined by a fat old white guy who was not faithful in his marriage and felt for the first time the same sort of s*** that women have been putting up with ever since the Double Axe cultures descended upon the Med and Indian penin. After a mere decade there he is whining. WIMP!
I do not encourage or discourage anyone to have or not to have an abortion. I say that it is their decision and then ask points for and point against, please. What do you want to do? If they want to keep the child - I ask how will you raise him or her? If they give the child up for adoption - I ask to whom? If they decide to abort - I ask if they can live with the memory for the remainder of their life. Face up and decide. No one said that life was going to be easy nor did they ever say that all of your decisions would be right or easy to make. Paula made hers and now would deny others the right to do the same. She rationalizes denying others very nicely. "I think it is wrong so you can't do it."
...outlandish claims which relentlessly assert that zygotes, embryos and fetuses are as much actual babies as the ones Right To Life manipulatively depicts in its roadside billboards.
Where the hell do you think you came from?
You're human aren't you? You started a zygote, became a fetus, was born a child, and now you're an old man.
Paula made hers and now would deny others the right to do the same. She rationalizes denying others very nicely. "I think it is wrong so you can't do it."
There you go putting words in my mouth again.
Wisdom is knowledge plus experience. I have Wisdom in this matter. I have see all of it, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Based on what I have experienced, the destroyed women and men I have had the opportunity to become acquainted with, the realization that Abortion has not had a positive effect on our society, and the origins and public relations of the movement, it is the sensible stance to take that Abortion harms those that are involved.
Abortion doesn't work; therefore it needs to go.
Most importantly, like the old saying goes, "Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me".
great logic. for whom? abortion's not intended to work for the fetus, so don't give that as a response. don't cite women who regret it after the fact either, because i'm sure that for every one that does, there're more who don't.
great logic. for whom? abortion's not intended to work for the fetus, so don't give that as a response.
Abortion doesn't work for those involved.
You don't see women coming out of the clinics cheering and dancing for joy and saying it it the best thing they've ever done. Conversely, you see women emotionally wrought, sad, numb and introspective. Then when the "wisdom" of their decision takes full effect, it's as if they'd been raped, the TRAUMA is that severe. That is what you have to get! If it was a blob of tissue, they'd be coming out of there like after a botox injection, looking forward to the "new you" life they now have.
don't cite women who regret it after the fact either, because i'm sure that for every one that does, there're more who don't.
You've convinced yourself of that to make it easier to accept, eh?
Abortion doesn't work because it solves nothing, really. The short time that would have been spent pregnant is then often replaced with a lifelong of medical problems, emotional baggage, a sense of guilt over the grave decision to kill that which lived inside of you. And how soon after are many of these same people pregnant again?
Society has not been made better because of Abortion either. It has not stopped unwanted pregnancies, child abuse, teen suicide, alcohol and drug abuse.
Abortion is another plague on our society.
Adoption is a reasonable solution to an unwanted pregnancy.
emotional baggage, a sense of guilt over the grave decision to kill that which lived inside of you
paula, thats a road i'm not gonna go down except to say this: the emotional baggage caused by the loss of a life under your care is something you learn to live with.
You don't see women coming out of the clinics cheering and dancing for joy and saying it it the best thing they've ever done. Conversely, you see women emotionally wrought, sad, numb and introspective.
And how many of these women who regret abortions actually think, "gee, if only the government had stepped in and forced me to have that baby, I'd be so much happier today."? They may very well regret the decision they made, but the point is, it was their decision to make. Had the option of having an abortion in a safe, sterile environment not been there for them, they may have done something they regretted even more.
Making abortions illegal isn't going to stop any of the things you're complaining about.
"Abortion providers are like SOME men who will say anthing to get a piece of ass."
Whaaat? Where do you get that?
If abortion providers don't give post-abortion counseling, they should. We don't know that they don't. I don't know how you can make the leap that it's not done because they don't care once the procedure is over.
Maybe there's not as much demand as you seem to want to think. People make their decisions and decide to live with it and move on. They're not blaming, say, Planned Parenthood, because they were the ones who sought out their services.
This idea that they somehow get the hard-sell or even a soft-sell once they are inside the doors seem exaggerated to me. They learn their options. Since the days of, oh, Charles Dickens, young women giving birth out of wedlock must have gathered they have about three options. One of which, abortion, was probably the most hazardous.
There are people on both sides of this issue who believe what they believe with sincere conviction. You do service to neither side.
Last night I got a phone call informing me a young female relative of mine had been rushed to the emergency room, bleeding profusely and dangerously.
Only a prompt transfusion saved her.
We don't know the full circumstances yet, but her uterus WAS scraped, suggesting either a miscarriage or perhaps a botched, self-induced abortion.
Even with abortion legal (but not always freely and readily available), teenaged girls who find themselves pregnant commonly first try to abort themselves, often with dreadful results.
Why?
For fear of being found out by unreasoning, harsh parents or abusive boyfriends -- a worry intensified by having to run gauntlets of anti-choice extremists outside women's health facilities, some of whom take still and video pictures of those entering, with the express intent of making clients' identities known.
Many of us are uneasy about seeing doctors under everyday medical circumstances.
Imagine the fearful reluctance among kids who are flooded with calculated stigmatization relative to abortion.
So they lock the bathroom door...and take matters into their own hands.
so you convince people there's this new "disease" whose symptoms are naturally occurring in all males with at least one functioning testicle?
problem is, you can't isolate a gene through the use of a drug. in order for that to work, you would literally have to turn off specific receptors in the brain, in what would literally be a chemical lobotomy. and the problem with that is that the brain is a "use it or lose it" mass of neurons. stop using a section of it, and eventually, those neural connections stop working.
joe.
and another.
Even if the drug Libitopro worked, the marketing plan laid out by Paula is a guaranteed failure.
"There is hope for a new you, a more confident, less distracted, more successful, healthier you.
The benefits seen in experiments have been increased intellectual abilities, more confidence, increased social communication, and a general feeling of well being."
The average guy would have three words for those cliams:
"Lies, lies, lies,"
i was thinking more along the lines of "do i care?" as those 3 words myself.
This whole Libitopro thing is silly.
People have sex drives, that's a given.
Men already have the ability to control their urges.
Men don't have to think with their penis's.
They simply choose to do so.
More lies.
It never ends.
LOL!
Come on Rick, I know you're not that shallow.
Anything to lighten up the discussion on this thread.
Nastiest talk on the whole board comes out of here.
Personal stuff, veiled passive/aggressive resentment. You detect that people are barely holding on to civility sometimes,
This has got the lot.
I almost see your point but, it's not light subject matter.
A while back the question was posed about meeting on middle ground to try to reduce the number of abortions.
My miracle drug would work as a viable solution IF marketed properly.
I admit there are some bugs to work out, but I think I really have something there.
If some people have a fat gene which is out of whack, why can't others have a "sexual impulse" gene which is out of whack?
Maybe medication combined with counseling could help those who are unable or unwilling (just like the fat gene) to control their impulses.
Just trying to lighten up the board a little since things have gotten so intense lately.
It is Friday, after all.
And we all are here because we want a solution. Right?
LEST WE FORGET
Dr. Spencer was white-haired and kindly. He inserted something to dilate X's cervix and told us to come back in the morning. l have no memory of that evening. In the morning, Dr. Spencer installed me in a tiny room to wait it out, and took X away. The room had a chair, cot, afghan, and a black paperback, Crimes of Passion. I envisioned telling X's parents where we were, why, and that she was dead. Eventually, Dr. Spencer returned with X over his shoulder in a fireman's carry, out cold. He gently unloaded her onto the cot; her eyes were rolled back so only the whites showed. After she came to and had rested, he checked her, gave her post-op instructions and antibiotics, and wished her well. The entire charge, including anesthesia, was $50.
Dr. Spencer, I later learned, was the beloved town doctor, shielded by the locals and the police, and a hero to women around the nation. He's in all the books about illegal abortions, and is the subject of a documentary, "Dear Dr. Spencer: Abortion in a Small Town." His file of requests from desperate women and thanks from grateful women is like volumes of "Lest We Forgets." Women still put flowers on his grave. X and I learned how lucky we were when we heard others' horror stories: the huge fees that back-alley butchers and legitimate doctors required in cash, women driven around blindfolded so they couldn't say where the deed was done, forced sex or sodomy with the abortionist before he'd get to work, tied hands, mouths stuffed to stifle screams from abortions without anesthesia, unsanitary equipment, hemorrhages, lies to emergency room doctors, and newspaper reports of women who died trying not to become mothers.
--A personal pre-Roe v. Wade account by Polly Rothstein, Westchester (Connecticut) Coalition for Legal Abortions, Inc.
Amazing! Give men a pill to kill their sex drive?!?!? NO! My God, Paula! Why would you want to remove the only reason women put up with men at all!! Other than auto repair and lawn maintenance, of course.
I do not believe that rights come without attendant responsibilities.
Since the woman is pretty much damned whatever she decides, I also believe that the decision to abort or not rests with her and her alone. I do not believe that anyone has the right to come between a woman and her maker for whatever reason. This is a path where she may consult with others but must make the final decision herself and then bear the consequences. As some have attested to in here, it is not an easy decision to make nor are the consequences easy to accept and bear, but any woman who is not just a 'little girl dressed up in a woman suit', stands up and rejects the idea of victimhood without reservation. We all will stand and be judged but for our sins alone - as in I will not be condemned for Mr. Daumer's actions.
To return to the amusement, now. Considering how much is being spent on getting it up, I strongly doubt that there will be any market for putting it to rest.
for killing a guy's sex drive - lay it out and take an axe to it.
Oh! That musta hurt!
Kit Zupan 6/14/02 10:24pm
ROTFL!
I know, I haven't worked out all the bugs yet. But what if this "magic pill" actually made them be more prone to doing chores and giving back to society in general.
Don't you think places like Africa and Afghanistan could use a little of this, at least while they are educated and a couple generations go by without warring tribes and men who brutalize women in so many ways?
We could respect them if only they'd say:
"I don't believe in abortion and would never have one myself. But you may feel differently. Since we live in a free country, you have to make your own decision."
Or if they'd simply, honestly acknowledge:
"No, a fetus isn't really a 'baby', with rights just like those of a pregnant woman. But it would ultimately become one, and it's that result I'd personally want to assure."
And how pleased we'd be if just once they'd admit:
"I understand that women and girls become pregnant against their wishes for a variety of reasons, many certainly beyond their control. I would never make their lives harder by condemning either their circumstance, or the way it came about."
But above all else, we could begin to share common ground if only these words were spoken:
"It would be medically, scientifically and legally absurd to say that abortion is 'murder'. It's a surgical procedure I don't agree with, since it stops a pregnancy before a developing embryo has a chance at independent viability. But I wouldn't even begin to think about
forcing others to comply with my belief via a government abortion ban.
"I know how many females were killed and wounded back when abortion was outlawed. We can't go back to the bad old days.
"All I can legitimately ask is that you give the matter your most careful, heartfelt consideration. Whatever your choice, I'll still be here for you.
"Friends don't try to criminalize friends simply because they disagree."
No, a fetus isn't really a 'baby'
Dennis, please look at the meaning for "fetus" because you have not a clue what you just said. As for the rest of your post, I can not condone the killing of an innocent human being.
'Bill - Fold' 6/16/02 4:52am
Bill, perhaps puberty.
Good morning everyone.
Happy Fathers Day to all! Hope you all had a wonderful weekend.
Here is an interesting link you men may enjoy
Man to Man (free Audio) http://www.dads.org
Dennis Rahkonen 6/16/02 1:15pm
Ok Dennis,
What do you have for those women who have had an abortion and are now suffering depression, grief, and are emotionally cripple?
What does your favored organization do for them now?
Day 1 - your life began at the moment of conception
Day 7 - you implanted in your mother's uterus
Day 10 - your mother's menstrual period stopped
Day 18 - your heart began to beat
Day 21 - you pumped your own blood, with your won blood type, through a separate, closed circulatory system
Day 28 - your eye, ear and respiratory system began to form
Day 42 - your brainwaves were recorded; your skeleton was complete, your reflexes were present
7 weeks - you sucked your thumb
8 weeks - all your body systems were present
9weeks - you squinted, swallowed, moved your tongue, and made a fist
11 weeks - all of your body systems worked: you breathed spontaneously; your fingernails were present
12 weeks - you weighed only one ounce
16 weeks - your genital organs were clearly differentiated; you grasped with your hands, swam, kicked, turned, somersaulted (still not felt by your mother)
18 weeks - your vocal cords worked and you could cry
20 weeks - you had hair on your head; you weighed one pound and were 12 inches long
The New England Journal of Medicine reported that:
15 percent of babies born premature at 23 weeks survive*
56 percent of babies born premature at 24 weeks survive*
79 percent of babies born premature at 25 weeks survive*
And we kill them legally at will. What a sad statement on our society.
Oh that's right, I forgot it's not life. Whatever, keep telling yourself that, sleep well.
Ok Dennis, What do you have for those women who have had an abortion and are now suffering depression, grief, and are emotionally cripple?
What does your favored organization do for them now?
I have regrets in life. I wish I would have done better in college and actually graduated. I wish I would have managed my money better and had better credit. These are things that could potentially cause me problems all of my life. Yet I'd hardly be in favor of the idea of having the government force me to graduate college or force me to have good credit. The price of our freedom of will is that we sometimes make bad decisions. Yet I for one would not argue that the price is too high. This is the land of freedom and that includes the freedom to make mistakes. Thus the argument that some women have abortions and later regret it is meaningless in trying to get abortion banned. It might be a reason to better regulate abortions to make sure those seeking them are well informed, but when we start passing laws that favor a life free of pain instead of a life full of freedom, then not only have we lost sight of what we stand for as a nation, we've begun to lose sight of what it means to be human.
I have regrets in life. I wish I would have done better in college and actually graduated. I wish I would have managed my money better and had better credit.
And none of this has anything to do with life and death.
It might be a reason to better regulate abortions to make sure those seeking them are well informed, but when we start passing laws that favor a life free of pain instead of a life full of freedom, then not only have we lost sight of what we stand for as a nation, we've begun to lose sight of what it means to be human.
All who favor abortion have long ago lost sight of what it means to be human.
I said...Ok Dennis, What do you have for those women who have had an abortion and are now suffering depression, grief, and are emotionally cripple?
Still no answer from him.
What does PP do for grief counseling? For post abortion counseling?
Allison Wonderland 6/17/02 9:17am>The price of our freedom of will is that we sometimes make bad decisions. Yet I for one would not argue that the price is too high.
A teenager, in my experience, lacks the maturity to make a decision as monumental as abortion and when the after effects kick in, the results are overwhelmingly negative.
What you fail to understand is...
There is tremendous lasting damage done to someone who has had an abortion.
You go to have an abortion, you are not allowed to meet and speak w/the doctor first, despite your request, and the pre-abortion person is using the best sales techniques, playing on all your vulnerabilities, then, although still scared, you feel enough courage after the "talk" to continue, she disingenuously holds your hand, then you wait for the doctor. He tells you, it will be ok, you'll only feel slight cramping, it's just some tissue at this stage, it will be over in a few minutes, etc...
And then feel the enormous pain as you cry and try not to scream, Your recovery time is extended, you pass out leaving the office, come back and rest for another hour, they say you were probably just dehydrated, tell you to drink a lot of water/juice. The sick feeling continues for a few days after, the bleeding, cramping, fatigue, and the depression, and emotional loss start to kick in.
You feel like you've been raped... but you were so naive... and being scared you panicked... and so the next few days you pray and you cry, and you are grieving and numb ... but it was supposed to make things better. NOT! And the decision haunts you your entire life.
.......And then, from that day forward....... you are never the same.
Carrie Camilleri of LA says - "I was an emotional wreck. The following day I was empty, sad, numb. I knew that day I had made a huge mistake. I wish with all my heart I would have done things differently."
Tewannah Aman of Ft. Lauderdale says - "I was 18 when I got pregnant. At three months pregnant, I had an abortion. About seven years later...my heart was broke. I was so overcome with grief. How could I have taken the life of my unborn child?"
Abortion is exploitation in it's worse form.
For crisis pregnancy help or post abortion counseling, call: toll-free 1-800-848-5683
http://www.hopeafterabortion.com
http://www.abortionfacts.com
by Theresa Bonopartis
"We are to show to those in need His goodness to ourselves. ..." This phrase at Mass speaks to my heart, reminding me of the despair, the grief, the pain of abortion from which Christ delivered me. It reminds me also of my duty to give hope to those still suffering, to help point the way to a place of shelter and peace in the heart of Jesus. And so, I relate my experience--unique and personal, but not unlike the stories of many other women. But this story is not, finally, about me. It’s about our good and merciful God ... always there, wanting to forgive us and make us whole again.
At 18 I honestly believed I was the only one not having sex. I gave in to peer pressure and slept with someone I was seeing occasionally. I remember vividly the day I phoned the doctor for my test results and learned I was pregnant. After months of denial, I was nearly four months pregnant, so I knew the answer long before the word "positive" was uttered. I was overwhelmed by a range a feelings: happiness at the thought of a child growing within me, but also fear of telling my parents—the reason I had "denied" it for so long.
I immediately told the father of the child, and we decided to get married. Although we planned to tell our parents together, I blurted the truth to my mother and father. Their reaction took me by surprise. Shocked, angry and disappointed, they told me to leave the house and forget that I was their daughter. In retrospect, their reaction was understandable. They believed that premarital sex was wrong and thought it would be a disgrace to have a child out of wedlock. At least, I thought, my parents were practicing Catholics and would never ask me to abort my child. I left the house with no job, no money, no home and nowhere to turn, feeling utterly abandoned and alone. It wasn’t long before the baby's father and I broke up. Still, I was certain I would not get an abortion. I wanted my child.
A friend's mother invited me to stay in their home. I had no idea how I could support the baby and myself, and things began to feel hopeless. During this period, my father sent several messages urging me to have an abortion. He even offered to pay for it. I refused. But as I began to feel more desperate, I decided, finally, to let the abortion happen. I shut down my feelings and went through the motions, functioning more like an observer in a surreal world than someone in control.
Thirty years later, I still can't remember how I got to the hospital. But I do remember being alone in the hospital room when a doctor entered, and I'll never forget the sadistic look on his face as he injected saline into my abdomen. No one explained to me the baby's development or what the abortion would be like. I had no idea what was going to happen. I lay there just wishing that I could die. I could feel the baby thrashing around as his skin and lungs were burned by the saline. He was dying. Labor began. After twelve hours of labor, alone in the room, I gave birth to a dead baby boy.
I looked at his tiny feet and hands. All I wanted to do was pick up my son and put him back inside of me. I couldn’t fathom what I had done. I rang for the nurse. She came in, picked up my son and dumped him in what looked like a large mayonnaise jar, a jar marked 3A. Then she left the room and I was alone again, filled with hatred for myself. The thought of death seemed comforting. My downward spiral had only just begun.
After the abortion I flew to California to spend time with my sister and her family so I could get my bearings again. I wasn’t the same person anymore. I went through the motions of daily living, but I had no desire for anything. At night, in the room I shared with my two-year-old niece, I’d lie awake asking God over and over again to forgive me.
Three months later I returned to the New York area. Although I was not in contact with my father, my mom would slip out to meet me occasionally. Still trying to run away from myself, I moved to Florida. During my two years there, I called my dad and we began speaking again, although never mentioning my abortion.
When I returned to the area, I found a job and outwardly things seemed fine. But nothing was as it seemed. I tried hard not to think about who I was and what I had done. When I thought about my dead child, I would become depressed and despairing. Desperate to be loved, I became involved with the man I would marry, even though he was emotionally and psychologically abusive to me.
Two years later I was thrilled to be pregnant with our first child. But I was also afraid that God would punish me for the abortion, that something would be wrong with my child. I prayed constantly that the baby would not have to suffer for my sins, and was immensely relieved when he was born healthy.
The marriage began to fall apart soon after the baby’s birth. My husband was abusing alcohol and we were arguing all the time. We tried counseling to salvage our marriage. Knowing that my abortion was at the root of my problems, I told the counselor about it. He told me to just forget about it. It was in the past. I could not make him understand that the abortion was very much in the present because I was living with the consequences every day.
For awhile my husband stayed sober, and I became pregnant with our second child. By the time I was to give birth, however, his addiction was again full-blown. The night our second child was born, I did not expect my husband to be there. By the time he got home, I was well along in labor and we barely made it to the hospital in time. The birth of my third son was anything but joyous. I didn't know how I was going to care for two children, living with someone addicted to alcohol. Unlike the husbands of mothers around me, my husband did not show up the next day; he was recovering from a hangover. I lay alone in a hospital room, but this time my child was alive.
Soon after I brought the baby home, my husband overdosed and had to be rushed to the hospital. The incident helped me to begin breaking the cycle. During his two-week hospital stay, I began to enjoy my children for the first time. I didn't have to worry about where he was or what he was doing. I gave the children my full attention. I promised myself that I would not let them grow up in an abusive home, and that if he didn’t straighten out, the children and I would begin a life for ourselves.
I kept my sanity by praying and reading the Bible. My husband stayed sober for two years before it began all over again. The day my older son, then four, told me to hide in the closet when he saw his father coming home, I knew we would have to leave. For myself, I may well have stayed in that abusive relationship forever, but I did not want the boys to experience abuse. One day when my husband was drinking again, I took the children and walked out the door. Once again I found myself with no job, no money, no home. This time, thank God, I had my children.
My sister took me in to her already full apartment, and with my family's help (in this crisis I had their full support), I began to get my life together. Shortly after I walked out, my husband ended up in a rehab, so the boys and I were able to move back into our apartment. I found a job. Within a year or two I returned to school to train as a substance abuse counselor. My family helped me both financially and by helping to care for the boys. I could not have made it without them.
After graduation, one of my teachers offered me a job. I thought I had finally gotten it together. Little did I realize how fragile this new life was.
By this time I had grown in my spiritual life and had a relationship with God, even though I did not truly know Him and still kept a distance from church. I still suffered from depression, entertained thoughts of suicide and had very low self esteem; the fact that I had been one of the few from my class offered a job did not raise my self-esteem. In time, as I struggled with my personal problems, my professional work began to suffer. I experienced "burn out." It was devastating to have worked so hard to achieve what I had and then become unable to function. I realize now that it was God’s way of drawing me closer to Him.
I quit my job and struggled to stay out of the hospital. My dad supported me and the kids. I just moved through life. Every day it was a challenge just to get out of bed and take care of the boys. I did, however, begin attending Mass again, sitting in the back of the church, certain that everyone knew I had had an abortion, certain that the walls would come crashing down on me. But I went, listening for some word of hope that I could be forgiven for my terrible, "unforgivable" sin. By then my older son was seven and ready to make his first penance. At a meeting for the parents, a priest talked about God's mercy and His desire to forgive any sin, even the sin of abortion. I remember thinking: Can this be true? Did I hear him correctly? Will God really forgive abortion? That evening I left with the first inkling of hope I had known in ten years.
It took time and courage, but I decided to contact that priest and ask him to hear my confession. Scared and nervous, I made the first confession in many years. The priest was gentle, trying to make it as easy as he could for me. He showed great empathy and support. At last, I was on my way home.
I began to see the priest regularly for spiritual direction. At first, all I could see was darkness. It was an effort to do the things he asked, like examining my life, because I was sure I would uncover only what a terrible person I was. But I was tired of the depression and desperate enough to try. I felt sorry for my children who had a mom who cried a lot and simply couldn’t cope with life. I wanted more for the three of us. And so I prayed, went to Mass every day and spent time before the Blessed Sacrament. I needed so badly to trust in this God I had been told was so good.
Still I could not forgive myself. I continued to struggle with depression. I would beg Jesus for healing. I felt bad that I had not reached full healing, and my confessor's eyes showed his own sadness over my continued struggle. I understand now that the fullness of healing must come in God's time.
One night I felt depressed and suicidal again, but despite these feelings, I also somehow felt a deep trust in God. I didn't want the children to see me crying again, so after putting them to bed, I closed myself in the bathroom, crouched on the floor, and repeated over and over "Jesus, I trust in You." I don't know how many hours I did this, but well into the night I had an experience that changed my life. I experienced being on the cross with Christ. But instead of experiencing suffering, I felt love so intense that it was capable of taking away that pain. I felt His love wash away my sin and I knew my healing was complete.
I have never since felt the despair of abortion, only the profound love and forgiveness Christ gave me. I've watched my life be transformed, miraculously, as I've been privileged to help countless women and men suffering from abortion's aftermath. Christ's love transformed not only my life, but the lives of those I love.
Before my mother died, I learned that my abortion had caused her great suffering, although she had never told me. One day when we were watching TV, abortion was mentioned. She said, "Well, sometimes it’s all right to have an abortion." I said, "Mom, it is never all right." God gave us this moment of grace. She told me that my abortion was her sin and that she would take it to the grave with her. I was able to comfort her, telling her that we both bore responsibility for it. I told her that I forgave her and asked her to forgive me. After that my mother went to confession to the same priest I had seen for direction, and she felt that her terrible burden was lifted.
Most difficult was telling my children. I felt that God was calling me to speak out about abortion, but I knew I couldn't unless my children knew first. I was terrified they would hate me. It took me years to muster the courage. By now I was active in the pro-life movement and they had been brought up to respect human life.
I planned to tell them many times, but each time I backed out, afraid to say the words. Finally one day I knew I was being given the grace to talk to them.
How can I describe that day? I trembled as I told them of how our lives had come to be as they were. If not for my abortion, they would not be living in a fatherless household or seeing the strained relationship between my father and me.
The boys wrestled with their feelings. They were angry at me. They grieved for the brother they never knew. They felt guilty for surviving. It took time, a lot of talking, and the grace of God, but they understood finally why things were as they were, and why I had spent years crying. They grew closer to God, and we grew closer to one another. I didn’t speak publicly right away. The boys needed time to deal with their feelings and cope with the loss of their brother before I would do that. I was even resigned and at peace with the fact that the day might never come. But a few years later, they gave me their blessing. To say I am proud of them is an understatement. They have become great advocates for life.
I’ve now worked for some years with the Sisters of Life, conducting Days of Prayer and Healing for those suffering abortion’s trauma. I am grateful to be able to stand alongside the Sisters at the foot of the cross and minister to these children of God, and blessed to watch them be transformed by His love and forgiveness. I have witnessed countless miracles of His mercy and am convinced that God is marshaling an army of once-wounded women and men to dispel the lies of abortion.
Saint Faustina Kowalska's diary, Divine Mercy in My Soul, tells of words spoken to her by Christ: "Let the greatest sinners place their trust in my mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. My daughter, write about My mercy towards tormented souls. Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than asked. I cannot punish even the greatest sinner if he makes an appeal to my compassion, but on the contrary, I justify him in my unfathomable and inscrutable mercy."
I know that this is true.
Jesus I trust in You.
Theresa Bonopartis assists the Sisters of Life and the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in conducting spiritual retreats for those wounded by abortion.
You go to have an abortion, you are not allowed to meet and speak w/the doctor first, despite your request,...
If all that is even true, it's just a problem with the methodology, not the act itself. It's like saying we should ban corporations because some have been known to engage in shady dealings.
Carrie Camilleri of LA says - "I was an emotional wreck. The following day I was empty, sad, numb. I knew that day I had made a huge mistake. I wish with all my heart I would have done things differently."
I'm sure there are women that feel that way. Is making abortion illegal the way to fix that? I seriously doubt it. You can't consider what her frame of mind was 7 years later. You have to go to her frame of mind at the time of the abortion. Had it been illegal would she have not gotten one, or would she have possibly sought one elsewhere and ended up being even worse off?
I'm willing to concede the point that perhaps abortions shouldn't be done by for-profit clinics. It's simply the nature of capitalism that they need to do so many abortions to make enough money to stay in business, and consequently it's not in their interest to fully present all the options. (Maybe they should be combination abortion clinics/adoption agencies so they can make money either way). Still I don't think current bad business practices are sufficient grounds to make abortion entirely illegal.
If I worked at an abortion clinic, I certainly wouldn't push abortion as the first otpion to consider. Once you do it, you can't undo it, and that is certainly something to consider. People's attitudes do change over time and it's entirely possible that a woman may be okay with an abortion today and still regret it tomorrow. I think any and every woman who is contemplating an abortion deserves to know all their options and the possible consequences of each, just as you would expect with any medical procedure. But then at that point, I think you still have to leave the decision up to her.
And yes, it's true that some, probably even most women I would guess who get abortions are teenagers. Does that make it harder for them to make a rational decision? In most cases I would say so. The ones who are mature enough to make a good decision probably wouldn't be in that situation to begin with. But there's still a trust issue here. A young girl may be afraid to tell her parents she is pregnant for whatever reason, perhaps even rightfully so. Quite often, in the end, it is the girl who will have to make the decision, however young she may be. At this point limiting options can only push them to desperation. It's entirely possible she may try to abort the child herself if she feels she has no other options and not only kill the child, but possibly herself.
That's why we need unrestricted access to abortions. That trust factor needs to be there that if a young girl is pregnant, and doesn't want to be, she should feel she has a place to go where she can seek a safe solution. Ideally, at that point, once the trust is there and she comes in, she should be presented with all of her options and the pros and cons of each. Hopefully she'll find a better one, but if not, then she should be allowed to have the abortion she seeks. If, for even a moment, she believes she won't get what she wants, she won't even come in and will never be aware of what her options were. Not only does the fetus lose at that point anyway, but so does the mother.
A world without abortions would be a great thing. Making them illegal isn't the way to achieve it. In the end it does more harm than good. If the present business practices of abortion clinics isn't acceptable, then they should be changed, but banning abortion altogether isn't what's best for the women in our society and it never will be.
I love it when you're willing to concede!
Your first point in the above paragraph was excellent.
No, No, No! That is why we need a better support for the girl to help her go thru the pregnancy. Then after the birth, she can make the best decision for both her and the child.
Like on the news the other day, there was a high school (Florida, I think) where they had a section in the H.S. yearbook with pictures of pregnant high school girls. I think it is a wonderful and positive message of support for those girls who stuck it out and walked the hard road and continued their education in an environment where they were respected and supported.
That is why we need a better support for the girl to help her go thru the pregnancy.
Well that too, but first she has to get to a point where she is willing to receive that help. When she first finds out she's pregnant, she could very well believe she has no other option other than abortion and isn't even aware of any other options. If she doesn't think there's someone out there who will help her with what *she* wants, then she may not seek help at all and could end up doing something dangerous and drastic.
Let's take it down a step and use an analogy.
Let's say you want to buy a car. And you're looking to buy a cheap car because you don't really want to spend much money. Now let's say I have a used car lot and for the most part I have a lot of good, reliable cars for sale, but they're not that cheap. Now if that's all I advertise, you'll never step foot on my lot because you'll see all these cars are out of your price range and price is all you're thinking about. But now let's say I get a couple of junkers in and I mark them at a low price and then I advertise that I have some cars that are cheap. You may see that ad and now you might decide to come visit my lot. And then when you get here, I can be willing to sell you that cheap car if that's what you really want, and I'll try to see to your satisfaction as best I can within the limits of what the car can offer, but I can also try and convince you that buying a more expensive, more reliable car really is worth the extra money. I may even be able to present you with financing options that you didn't realize were possible and prove to you that you really can own the nicer car. But if I wasn't willing to sell you the cheaper car if that's what you really wanted, you never would have come to see me and never would have gotten the nicer car. Instead you may have gone to some back alley and bought a cheap car off some guy who just happened to be selling one, only to have it break down a week later and become worthless. Now you have no car and no money.
I'm not going to argue that abortion is something that should be done haphazardly or without thought. But I will continue to maintain that it needs to at least remain a legal option.
But I will continue to maintain that it needs to at least remain a legal option.
Then why not raise the time period to say when they are 10 years old? Then, if they are not what you had wished or are too much of a bother, you can just abort them.
Then why not raise the time period to say when they are 10 years old? Then, if they are not what you had wished or are too much of a bother, you can just abort them.
Why 10? Why not 12? Or 18? Or two weeks as Paula suggested? It would just be an arbitrary line you'd be drawing. I think most people would prefer something a little less ambiguous, and there are only two such points, conception and birth. As for which one of those two you want to make the point at which the rights of personhood are assigned, that will depend a lot on your personal beliefs. But I can't think of too many benefits to waiting until any point after birth to kill it. By then it's an independent being and giving it the right to life doesn't infringe on someone else's rights to their own body.
As for my personal opinion, I believe you receive your soul at birth, and so to kill someone after birth really is murder. Before that, you've only killed a body, not a person.
The new proabortion slogan: I believe you receive your soul at birth, and so to kill someone after birth really is murder. Before that, you've only killed a body, not a person
To demonstrate how anti-choicers distort reality, please refer to Paula's post # 1021.
At first we see a number of claims about fetal development, key aspects of which I'll refute shortly, followed by three comments from
The New England Journal of Medicine:
15 percent of babies born premature at 23 week survive*
56 percent of babies born premature at 24 weeks survive*
79 percent of babies born premature at 25 weeks survive*
The impression given is that the first list is an integral part of the second group of three statistics.
It is not.
They're uncredited assertions that are inaccurate and misleading, deliberately juxtaposed with the later as a deliberate sham.
Some women feel shame after having abortions because they've been aggressively guilt-tripped by anti-choicers via outlandish claims which relentlessly assert that zygotes, embryos and fetuses are as much actual babies as the ones Right To Life manipulatively depicts in its roadside billboards, crawling about, wearing bonnets and little sunglasses, playing with rattles, etc. Part of helping these abused women is to deprogram them with facts, as one would deprogram cult victims:
"7 weeks - you sucked your thumb (suggesting conscious insecurity)".
At this stage of pregnancy, all fetal movement is reflexive in nature rather than purposeful, since the latter requires cognition, which is the ability to perceive and know. For cognition to occur, the cortex (gray matter covering the brain) must be present, as well as myelinization (covering sheath) of the spinal cord and attached nerves, which is not the case. An example of the reflex movement at this stage of human pregnancy is thumb sucking in utero.
"12 weeks - you weighed one ounce."
It's at this point that anti-choice propagandists also claim a fetus can feel pain. But the brain and nervous system are still in a very early stage of development. The beginnings of the brain stem, which includes a rudimentary thalamus and spinal cord, is being formed. Most brain cells are not developed. Without a cerebral cortex, pain impulses cannot be received or perceived. Additionally, experts find that newborns at 26-27 weeks’ gestation (24-25 weeks’ fetal age) who survive have significantly less response to pain than do full term newborns.
12 weeks is often cited in anti-choice propaganda as a gestational time at which a fetus ("baby" in their demagoguery) is "no different" from a born person, and therefore supposedly having full rights. But what is the truth? A fetus of 12 weeks cannot in any way be compared to a fully formed functioning person. At this stage only rudiments of the organ systems are present. The fetus is unable to sustain life outside the woman’s womb, it is incapable of conscious thought; it is incapable of essential breathing. It is instead an in utero fetus with the potential of becoming a child.
"18 weeks - your vocal cords worked and you could cry."
Although primitive respiratory movements do occur in the later stages of gestation, crying or screaming cannot occur even then. In fact, a child born prematurely at 26-27 weeks’ gestation (24-25 weeks’ fetal age) cannot scream but occasionally emits weak cries.
Nothing is so shameful as the deplorable anti-choice tactic of using disinformational terrorism to attempt to disuade abortion.
(Medical facts herein from: Sally Faith Dorfman, MD, Assistant Professor, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Assistant Clinical Professor, Mount Sinai; Hart Peterson, MD, Chief of Pediatric Neurology, New York Hospital, Clinical Professor of Neurology in Pediatrics, Cornell University Medical Center; William Rashbaum, MD, Assistant Clinical Professor, Albert Einstein College of Medicine; Seymour L. Romney, MD, Professor, Ob/Gyn, Director, Gynecological Cancer Research, and former Chairman, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Albert Einstein College of Medicine; Allan Rosenfield, MD, Professor, Ob/Gyn and Public Health, Acting Chairman, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology Director, Center for Population and Family Health, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University; Herbert G. Vaughan, Jr. MD, Professor of Neuroscience, Neurology and Pediatrics, Director, Rose F. Kennedy Center for Research in Mental Retardation and Human Development, Albert Einstein College of Medicine; Ming-Neng Yeh, MD, Associate Clinical Professor, Dept. of Ob/Gyn Ultrasound Laboratory, Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center.)
Let's not forget that we're talking about a women's REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM issue, which must entail:
As for my personal opinion, I believe you receive your soul at birth, and so to kill someone after birth really is murder. Before that, you've only killed a body, not a person.
This is what the whole arguement can be reduced to, isn't it? When does life begin? When does the body receive a soul? When are we murdering a child?
Until we can have irrefutable proof to answer these questions, wouldn't it make sense to err on the side of saving a child rather than erring on the side of killing a child?
How would you feel if tomorrow scientist find that a child receives his soul at conception and you realize that you have been condoning and encouraging people to kill their children?
If tomorrow scientist find that a child receives his soul at birth and you were right all along, I would feel satisfied knowing that I have erred on the side of safety for the child.
Until such questions can be answered, I will retain my stance in order to hopefully insure the inalienable right of a child to life.
No, I am not a feminazi. Stupid term! I fully enjoy men. But that does not mean that I am willing to put up with all of their bullshit - such as this 'feminazi' crap. The term was coined by a fat old white guy who was not faithful in his marriage and felt for the first time the same sort of s*** that women have been putting up with ever since the Double Axe cultures descended upon the Med and Indian penin. After a mere decade there he is whining. WIMP!
I do not encourage or discourage anyone to have or not to have an abortion. I say that it is their decision and then ask points for and point against, please. What do you want to do? If they want to keep the child - I ask how will you raise him or her? If they give the child up for adoption - I ask to whom? If they decide to abort - I ask if they can live with the memory for the remainder of their life.
Face up and decide. No one said that life was going to be easy nor did they ever say that all of your decisions would be right or easy to make. Paula made hers and now would deny others the right to do the same. She rationalizes denying others very nicely. "I think it is wrong so you can't do it."
...outlandish claims which relentlessly assert that zygotes, embryos and fetuses are as much actual babies as the ones Right To Life manipulatively depicts in its roadside billboards.
Where the hell do you think you came from?
You're human aren't you? You started a zygote, became a fetus, was born a child, and now you're an old man.
Dan Zachary 6/17/02 8:59pm
Excellent points!
Dennis Rahkonen 6/17/02 6:01pm
Bullshit!
Kit Zupan 6/17/02 9:12pm
There you go putting words in my mouth again.
Wisdom is knowledge plus experience. I have Wisdom in this matter.
I have see all of it, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Based on what I have experienced, the destroyed women and men I have had the opportunity to become acquainted with, the realization that Abortion has not had a positive effect on our society, and the origins and public relations of the movement, it is the sensible stance to take that Abortion harms those that are involved.
Abortion doesn't work; therefore it needs to go.
Most importantly, like the old saying goes, "Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me".
I was "fooled" once, but never again.
Dennis Rahkonen 6/17/02 5:40pm
Why don't you provide a link(s) to support your "claims".
A very important question to ask, and I am glad you ask it.
What if they then answered "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" or said they had mixed feelings?
Abortion doesn't work; therefore it needs to go.
great logic. for whom? abortion's not intended to work for the fetus, so don't give that as a response. don't cite women who regret it after the fact either, because i'm sure that for every one that does, there're more who don't.
Abortion doesn't work; therefore it needs to go.
Abortion doesn't work for those involved.
You don't see women coming out of the clinics cheering and dancing for joy and saying it it the best thing they've ever done. Conversely, you see women emotionally wrought, sad, numb and introspective. Then when the "wisdom" of their decision takes full effect, it's as if they'd been raped, the TRAUMA is that severe. That is what you have to get! If it was a blob of tissue, they'd be coming out of there like after a botox injection, looking forward to the "new you" life they now have.
You've convinced yourself of that to make it easier to accept, eh?
Abortion doesn't work because it solves nothing, really. The short time that would have been spent pregnant is then often replaced with a lifelong of medical problems, emotional baggage, a sense of guilt over the grave decision to kill that which lived inside of you. And how soon after are many of these same people pregnant again?
Society has not been made better because of Abortion either. It has not stopped unwanted pregnancies, child abuse, teen suicide, alcohol and drug abuse.
Abortion is another plague on our society.
Adoption is a reasonable solution to an unwanted pregnancy.
emotional baggage, a sense of guilt over the grave decision to kill that which lived inside of you
paula, thats a road i'm not gonna go down except to say this: the emotional baggage caused by the loss of a life under your care is something you learn to live with.
You don't see women coming out of the clinics cheering and dancing for joy and saying it it the best thing they've ever done. Conversely, you see women emotionally wrought, sad, numb and introspective.
And how many of these women who regret abortions actually think, "gee, if only the government had stepped in and forced me to have that baby, I'd be so much happier today."? They may very well regret the decision they made, but the point is, it was their decision to make. Had the option of having an abortion in a safe, sterile environment not been there for them, they may have done something they regretted even more.
Making abortions illegal isn't going to stop any of the things you're complaining about.
It will stop millions of murders.
That's enough reason for me to make it illegal.
The rest is just details.
"Abortion providers are like SOME men who will say anthing to get a piece of ass."
Whaaat? Where do you get that?
If abortion providers don't give post-abortion counseling, they should. We don't know that they don't. I don't know how you can make the leap that it's not done because they don't care once the procedure is over.
Maybe there's not as much demand as you seem to want to think. People make their decisions and decide to live with it and move on. They're not blaming, say, Planned Parenthood, because they were the ones who sought out their services.
This idea that they somehow get the hard-sell or even a soft-sell once they are inside the doors seem exaggerated to me. They learn their options. Since the days of, oh, Charles Dickens, young women giving birth out of wedlock must have gathered they have about three options. One of which, abortion, was probably the most hazardous.
There are people on both sides of this issue who believe what they believe with sincere conviction. You do service to neither side.
Here's an ironic coincidence...
Last night I got a phone call informing me a young female relative of mine had been rushed to the emergency room, bleeding profusely and dangerously.
Only a prompt transfusion saved her.
We don't know the full circumstances yet, but her uterus WAS scraped, suggesting either a miscarriage or perhaps a botched, self-induced abortion.
Even with abortion legal (but not always freely and readily available), teenaged girls who find themselves pregnant commonly first try to abort themselves, often with dreadful results.
Why?
For fear of being found out by unreasoning, harsh parents or abusive boyfriends -- a worry intensified by having to run gauntlets of anti-choice extremists outside women's health facilities, some of whom take still and video pictures of those entering, with the express intent of making clients' identities known.
Many of us are uneasy about seeing doctors under everyday medical circumstances.
Imagine the fearful reluctance among kids who are flooded with calculated stigmatization relative to abortion.
So they lock the bathroom door...and take matters into their own hands.