yet one of the smallest markets in mlb, that hasn't been to the world series in 20 years, can get a new stadium built...to replace one that was built before the city even had a ball club. now that'ssupporting your team.
Talk about ironic. On the same day that two of Dean Taylor's prime acquisitions - Jose Hernandez and Richie Sexson - landed spots in the All-Star Game, a newspaper report out of Seattle indicated that Taylor could be in trouble as general manager of the Milwaukee Brewers
. Of course, that could be just another rumor thrown out by a baseball writer trying to fill a 50-inch notes package in the Sunday paper. On the other hand, the rule of thumb in such instances is that where there's smoke, there's fire, and the smoldering wreckage of Taylor's third Brewers team has to be an embarrassment for the Selig family when the All-Star Game comes to Miller Park next week. At first glance, it's easy to see why Taylor might be in trouble. Team president Wendy Selig Prieb and her mentor/father, commissioner Bud Selig, are staring at a team that is on pace to lose 100 or more games for the first time. Nor have Taylor's personnel moves during his three years in Milwaukee inspired confidence. Aside from the Sexson trade and the Jeromy Burnitz-for-Glendon Rusch deal, few have panned out. Only four players on the active roster - Mark Loretta, Ron Belliard, Ben Sheets and Valerio de los Santos - were in the organization when Taylor replaced Sal Bando in 1999, so for better or for worse, this is Taylor's team. And Taylor's team is a loss or two from having the worst record in baseball. Normally, one would expect to see more progress in the third year of a rebuilding project. In Milwaukee, where there hasn't been a winning season in 10 years or a playoff berth in 20, patience is wearing thin.
If the Brewers fire Taylor after three seasons, however, it would rank as one of their dumber moves ever
. No, not as dumb as signing 50-year-old Teddy Higuera to that big contract, but close. For proof, look to the West, where the Minnesota Twins have shown that building a competitive team in a small market is not impossible
. The second half of that lesson is that building a competitive team in a small market requires patience. Selig-Prieb might think she needs a scapegoat more than she needs continuity at this point, but she should study the Twins before making any rash decisions. Janesville's (Wisc) own Terry Ryan was hired as general manager of the Twins in 1994 and the team endured seven straight losing seasons
- with a low-water mark of 97 losses in 1999 - before it became competitive last year. This year the Twins are in first place in the American League Central Division.
Taylor might not have Ryan's eye for talent, but he's following the same blueprint
. Since his arrival, Taylor has steadfastly maintained that the only way to build a competitive team is through the farm system and that it doesn't happen overnight. When you inherit the least-productive farm system in baseball, it doesn't happen in three years, either
. Taylor has had to walk a fine line in Milwaukee. He's had to build a farm system and field a competitive big-league team at the same time so the increasingly disgruntled fans keep coming to the ballpark. Clearly, Taylor has failed on the latter count. However, there is evidence that the farm system is eventually going to produce big-league talent. There are no guarantees, of course, but this is notthe time to push the panic button and abandon the only plan that has a chance to work
.
Do you still think people who enjoy pro sporting events are sick in the head?
Some of them are but, I don't want to get into that again.
My intent isn't to offend anyone, especially sane sports fans. I just think, and many agree, that there's better things to do with public monies than to build a stadium. I think the Milwaukee fiasco helps support the argument that building a team isn't the answer.
When the Milwaukee Brewers win a World Series, they'll know why they built the stadium. And the stadium will be filled with the fair-weather fans that they don't have now.
It won't be a fiasco because it's not now. It's a baseball park.
Wherever the Twins stadium is built your personal bank account won't change one little bit.
"Some of them are but, I don't want to get into that again."
Feel a bit superior to them, perhaps? Crude, loud, boorish people that they are?
When the Milwaukee Brewers win a World Series, they'll know why they built the stadium. And the stadium will be filled with the fair-weather fans that they don't have now.
I don't care how many world series they win. It's a waste of public funds.
It won't be a fiasco because it's not now. It's a baseball park.
Maybe you haven't heard of the Miller Park fiasco?
Wherever the Twins stadium is built your personal bank account won't change one little bit.
If they can prove that to me then by all means let them build a stadium.
Feel a bit superior to them, perhaps? Crude, loud, boorish people that they are?
Sure there is. I'm good with numbers. If they can prove it, then I'm in.
And you'd say no if it cost you 50 cents more on a plate of food at a St. Paul restaurant.
Yeah, I don't want a dime of my money going towards the Twins or the Vikings. I'd rather that money go towards education or creating real jobs in the community.
I think it's Yes on every count.
You'd be wrong. Most of my favorite people are fans. They just aren't Fanatics.
Whose sicker to you, JT? -- A fan that likes one pro sport, or one that likes three?
The number of teams or sports they like is irrelevant.
If the pro teams can't afford a stadium why should the citizens buy them a new one? It's welfare--plain and simple. Will you pay for my Cadillac and my country club memberships too?
When the teams finally turn a reasonable profit they can buy their own stadium. Until then I wish they would stop using these communist methods to take away from the good people of the state.
Carl Pohlad has used the I'm going to sell the team bluff one too many times -- he's full of shit and is too old to play the modern-day game of negotiation so he resorts to extortion and implants fear into the lesser minds -- {the sports fans, that is, people like you losers who sit on the internet and yack about sports all day long while real men and women make the real world function for you -- talk about your welfare cases.} I'll fight that communist prick every step of the way, and that white trash Texas commie McCombs too. Lazy M-Fs.
Pro ball teams are like canker sores on a whore, there will always be another one along soon. GO TWINS - and take the Vikings with you. Good riddance to bad communists.
God bless the Free Market and the American Way, not that commie-welfare bullshit that slugs like Pohlad and McCombs live by.
thx, I'd rather that money go towards education or creating real jobs in the community.
so do you think that by not building the stadium, education's woes will be solved and unemployment will end? really?!? geez, i guess that $50M in revenue being generated this coming week from the all-star game is ill-begotten . . . .
I work at the Mall of America. At the store I work, we get a lot of business from people out of town. People that were here for an All-Star game, I would bet they'd put a lot of money down at the mall. Food to eat, shopping, getting souvenirs. They'd need a hotel to stay in, perhaps a car to drive around, gotta get gas for the car. They come and have a good time, who knows how many times they may come back? You may get fans of the Brewers, Royals, Indians, Cubs, White Sox... teams that are somewhat nearby, who have a good time and decide to come see the Twins here when their favorite team plays. I think it's hard to measure the economical impact of something like that.
All given to those that already have more money than God.
Wouldn't we be better off spending the stadium money on getting real jobs for people. Jobs that people could make a career of? Jobs that they could support a family on?
So are we to assume that hotels, restaurants, bars and etc. don't have managers, middle manager, executives?
Is the govt. now in the business of getting people jobs.
Strange statement from a conservative, or whatever the hell you are.
Is there any consistency to your political views, JT?
A stadium is being built to keep the Twins in town. And a combination of private/public financing is the way it's been done virtually everywhere. What it appears to be here, is a bonding package tied with a increase in taxes in downtown bars and restaurants. Standard stuff. The taxpayers will not end up holding the bag on anything,
To read the comments of some, you'd swear this is the first government/business venture ever, in the history of mankind.
So are we to assume that hotels, restaurants, bars and etc. don't have managers, middle manager, executives?
Very few of the jobs created from a stadium are good paying jobs that lead to a career. The return doesn't justify the cost in my mind.
Is the govt. now in the business of getting people jobs.
No, but if the government is going to fork out money under the guise of creating jobs, increasing revenue & tax base, it's only logic to spend that money on creating real jobs.
btw: Are they in the business of building stadiums for private companies?
Strange statement from a conservative, or whatever the hell you are.
Yeah, that's why Jethro calls me a Liberal all the time. I don't fit in a nice little box.
Anyway, I don't want them to spend money on either. However, if they're going to spend our money, there's better, more productive ways to do it.
Is there any consistency to your political views, JT?
I think so.
A stadium is being built to keep the Twins in town. And a combination of private/public financing is the way it's been done virtually everywhere. What it appears to be here, is a bonding package tied with a increase in taxes in downtown bars and restaurants. Standard stuff. The taxpayers will not end up holding the bag on anything,
First you say increase in taxes in downtown bars, then you say taxpayers will not end up holding the bag? Who do you think is paying those taxes? It ain't the Twins owners or players, the ones that will benefit most from a stadium.
To read the comments of some, you'd swear this is the first government/business venture ever, in the history of mankind.
Most see this as a bad venture. That's why it continually gets voted down.
Well, I'm not that liberal, and in matters of things like a stadium for the Twins, my virture is obviously up for barter. Standing on principle will get us what?
The Twins are my team, and I don't want lose them. Simple as that with me.
btw: I do understand where you're coming from and I don't see you as a fanatic. You simply love baseball, especially the Twins and don't want them to leave. I don't hold that against you.
If circumstances were different I might actually vote for a taxpayer based stadium myself. If it was mutually beneficial to both the taxpayers & the team. If the team and MLB weren't so greedy I think something could be worked out.
knew the homeless vs. stadium comment would stir the drink. but 17 posts? that's more excitement than coolio & the counting crows at the all-star softball game last.
Economists question whether pro sports teams like the Chargers contribute much to the bottom line of a region
Researchers Jordan Rappaport and Chad Wilkerson say cities' willingness to pay subsidies for sports teams in some cases and not in others suggests that officials and residents make conscious or subconscious judgments about what a team is worth.
Anyone with common sense knows that the claim that pro sports benefit the community financially knows that it is only talk that politicians use to hide behind.
Is Selig intentionally trying to piss off baseball fans?
Sure seems too and seems to be doing a good job, quite nicely I might add. I understand why they called the game but I still don't like it. I think all star games are a waste anyway but if they are going to play them then they should have stuck it out, the people who paid a good chunk to see the game ought to get thier money back.
Bud's just got this ever growing grocery list of things to do...
Negotiate contract with players Figure out this contraction business Take care of the steroids issue Fix all-star game so another tie like this doesn't happen
the people who paid a good chunk to see the game ought to get thier money back
why, because the only got to see a full 11 innings of baseball? because they saw more players take the field than any other all-star game in 73 years? because both managers were asking to see bud as early as the 10th inning about calling the game?
anybody that was sober and knows the game, knew it that the right thing to do. what would've been the backlash if bud had let the game go, but one of those players came up gimping, especially from a front-running team? bud did the right thing. maybe instead of having the house announcer do it, he should've had sexson or some other player explain to the fans that it was time to draw a line in the sand, that they were out of pitchers.
most of the fans that were whining and jeering at the end of the game were drunken rowdies from chicago, coming up here to rough up the joint. that crowd had the exact same response as a pack of drunks being cleared-out at bartime. the interviews with fans this morning beared that out.
I guarantee that you would've been hard-pressed to find a single fan chanting who even knew the winner of last year's game. in any event, i'm certain that none of them would be able to tell you how last year's "winner" in the all-star game effected the play-off race.
it's all a dog & pony show, a tip o' the cap to the fans from the mlb. selig should limit the all-star game to 10 innings, period. that way the managers know just how long they've got to work everybody into the game, and the fans know how and when it's going to end.
I thought the Twins were getting a new stadium?
Red will sell the Vikings before he moves them.
It's still not a done deal.
St Paul's Mayor is pushing for another vote. It will be voted down yet again.
It's still not a done deal.
1,000,000 less tickets to be sold this year.
3,000 less season ticket holders than last year.
That's supporting your team?
That's supporting your team?
it sure is, when a last place team averages over 2,600 more fans per home game than a first place club....
Minnesotans wised up and stopped feeding the monster.
Oates commentary: Taylor's plan needs time to play out
JT:
Do you still think people who enjoy pro sporting events are sick in the head?
Do you still think people who enjoy pro sporting events are sick in the head?
Some of them are but, I don't want to get into that again.
My intent isn't to offend anyone, especially sane sports fans. I just think, and many agree, that there's better things to do with public monies than to build a stadium. I think the Milwaukee fiasco helps support the argument that building a team isn't the answer.
When the Milwaukee Brewers win a World Series, they'll know why they built the stadium. And the stadium will be filled with the fair-weather fans that they don't have now.
It won't be a fiasco because it's not now. It's a baseball park.
Wherever the Twins stadium is built your personal bank account won't change one little bit.
"Some of them are but, I don't want to get into that again."
Feel a bit superior to them, perhaps? Crude, loud, boorish people that they are?
It won't be a fiasco because it's not now.
That's debatable.
When the Milwaukee Brewers win a World Series, they'll know why they built the stadium. And the stadium will be filled with the fair-weather fans that they don't have now.
I don't care how many world series they win. It's a waste of public funds.
It won't be a fiasco because it's not now. It's a baseball park.
Maybe you haven't heard of the Miller Park fiasco?
Wherever the Twins stadium is built your personal bank account won't change one little bit.
If they can prove that to me then by all means let them build a stadium.
Feel a bit superior to them, perhaps? Crude, loud, boorish people that they are?
No, on all counts.
"If they can prove that to me then by all means let them build a stadium."
Ain't a bit of proof you'd believe anyway. And you'd say no if it cost you 50 cents more on a plate of food at a St. Paul restaurant.
"No, on all counts."
I think it's Yes on every count.
Whose sicker to you, JT? -- A fan that likes one pro sport, or one that likes three?
.
Ain't a bit of proof you'd believe anyway.
Sure there is. I'm good with numbers. If they can prove it, then I'm in.
And you'd say no if it cost you 50 cents more on a plate of food at a St. Paul restaurant.
Yeah, I don't want a dime of my money going towards the Twins or the Vikings. I'd rather that money go towards education or creating real jobs in the community.
I think it's Yes on every count.
You'd be wrong. Most of my favorite people are fans. They just aren't Fanatics.
Whose sicker to you, JT? -- A fan that likes one pro sport, or one that likes three?
The number of teams or sports they like is irrelevant.
If the pro teams can't afford a stadium why should the citizens buy them a new one? It's welfare--plain and simple. Will you pay for my Cadillac and my country club memberships too?
When the teams finally turn a reasonable profit they can buy their own stadium. Until then I wish they would stop using these communist methods to take away from the good people of the state.
Carl Pohlad has used the I'm going to sell the team bluff one too many times -- he's full of shit and is too old to play the modern-day game of negotiation so he resorts to extortion and implants fear into the lesser minds -- {the sports fans, that is, people like you losers who sit on the internet and yack about sports all day long while real men and women make the real world function for you -- talk about your welfare cases.} I'll fight that communist prick every step of the way, and that white trash Texas commie McCombs too. Lazy M-Fs.
Pro ball teams are like canker sores on a whore, there will always be another one along soon. GO TWINS - and take the Vikings with you. Good riddance to bad communists.
God bless the Free Market and the American Way, not that commie-welfare bullshit that slugs like Pohlad and McCombs live by.
Duane:
I suggest you join some anti-stadium group.
You'd be an effective spokesman.
thx,
I'd rather that money go towards education or creating real jobs in the community.
It's the Twins, people
Sports-haters quickly become humanitarians and philanthropists, concerned for the poor and the children, whenever stadiums are brought up.
so do you think that by not building the stadium, education's woes will be solved and unemployment will end? really?!?
Of course not, I'm not stupid. They certianly won't be helped by financing stadiums.
geez, i guess that $50M in revenue being generated this coming week from the all-star game is ill-begotten . . . .
LOL! And how much did it cost you to get $50m for hotdog vendors & t-shirt salesmen?
And hotels,
And bars and restaurants,
And shopping
And Television revenue,
Visibility of Milwaukee as a Major League City that can't be measured in dollars.
Good for Milwaukee. We should be as lucky and forward looking.
Were it not for the rubes who have tied the process up over the years.
I work at the Mall of America. At the store I work, we get a lot of business from people out of town. People that were here for an All-Star game, I would bet they'd put a lot of money down at the mall. Food to eat, shopping, getting souvenirs. They'd need a hotel to stay in, perhaps a car to drive around, gotta get gas for the car. They come and have a good time, who knows how many times they may come back? You may get fans of the Brewers, Royals, Indians, Cubs, White Sox... teams that are somewhat nearby, who have a good time and decide to come see the Twins here when their favorite team plays. I think it's hard to measure the economical impact of something like that.
And hotels,
And bars and restaurants,
And shopping
All relatively low paying jobs.
And Television revenue,
All given to those that already have more money than God.
Wouldn't we be better off spending the stadium money on getting real jobs for people. Jobs that people could make a career of? Jobs that they could support a family on?
So are we to assume that hotels, restaurants, bars and etc. don't have managers, middle manager, executives?
Is the govt. now in the business of getting people jobs.
Strange statement from a conservative, or whatever the hell you are.
Is there any consistency to your political views, JT?
A stadium is being built to keep the Twins in town. And a combination of private/public financing is the way it's been done virtually everywhere. What it appears to be here, is a bonding package tied with a increase in taxes in downtown bars and restaurants. Standard stuff. The taxpayers will not end up holding the bag on anything,
To read the comments of some, you'd swear this is the first government/business venture ever, in the history of mankind.
But it goes on every day.
So are we to assume that hotels, restaurants, bars and etc. don't have managers, middle manager, executives?
Very few of the jobs created from a stadium are good paying jobs that lead to a career. The return doesn't justify the cost in my mind.
Is the govt. now in the business of getting people jobs.
No, but if the government is going to fork out money under the guise of creating jobs, increasing revenue & tax base, it's only logic to spend that money on creating real jobs.
btw: Are they in the business of building stadiums for private companies?
Strange statement from a conservative, or whatever the hell you are.
Yeah, that's why Jethro calls me a Liberal all the time. I don't fit in a nice little box.
Anyway, I don't want them to spend money on either. However, if they're going to spend our money, there's better, more productive ways to do it.
Is there any consistency to your political views, JT?
I think so.
A stadium is being built to keep the Twins in town. And a combination of private/public financing is the way it's been done virtually everywhere. What it appears to be here, is a bonding package tied with a increase in taxes in downtown bars and restaurants. Standard stuff. The taxpayers will not end up holding the bag on anything,
First you say increase in taxes in downtown bars, then you say taxpayers will not end up holding the bag? Who do you think is paying those taxes? It ain't the Twins owners or players, the ones that will benefit most from a stadium.
To read the comments of some, you'd swear this is the first government/business venture ever, in the history of mankind.
Most see this as a bad venture. That's why it continually gets voted down.
But it goes on every day.
Yep, it does. Doesn't make it right.
"Yeah, that's why Jethro calls me a Liberal all the time. I don't fit in a nice little box."
I guess you see that as a virtue.
Being called a Liberal of not fitting into a box?
Being a Liberal would be a virtue. Not just being called one by jethro.
Being all over the board, politically is not, in my estimation.
Well then I'm a Liberal. I want to be virtuous too!
Being all over the board, politically is not, in my estimation.
I'm not all over the board politically.
I give what I see as very logical reasons for my stance on this issue. You on the other hand let your emotion as a fan interfere with your judgement.
Well, I'm not that liberal, and in matters of things like a stadium for the Twins, my virture is obviously up for barter. Standing on principle will get us what?
The Twins are my team, and I don't want lose them. Simple as that with me.
Hate to break it to you Rick, but the Twins don't give a rats ass about you, and would leave you in a heartbeat.
You're cold, man.
maybe, but he's right.
Sorry Rick.
btw: I do understand where you're coming from and I don't see you as a fanatic. You simply love baseball, especially the Twins and don't want them to leave. I don't hold that against you.
If circumstances were different I might actually vote for a taxpayer based stadium myself. If it was mutually beneficial to both the taxpayers & the team. If the team and MLB weren't so greedy I think something could be worked out.
What homeless comment?
A BOLT OF SKEPTICISM
Anyone with common sense knows that the claim that pro sports benefit the community financially knows that it is only talk that politicians use to hide behind.
What homeless comment?
"Economists question whether pro sports teams like the Chargers contribute much to the bottom line of a region "
That's why economics is called The Dismal Science.
Careful Rick, wasn't it an economist that came up with the latest scheme to fund a stadium?
That's why economics is called The Dismal Science.
That's funny!
Thermo & laplace tran...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Is Selig intentionally trying to piss off baseball fans?
Sure seems too and seems to be doing a good job, quite nicely I might add. I understand why they called the game but I still don't like it. I think all star games are a waste anyway but if they are going to play them then they should have stuck it out, the people who paid a good chunk to see the game ought to get thier money back.
Bud's just got this ever growing grocery list of things to do...
Negotiate contract with players
Figure out this contraction business
Take care of the steroids issue
Fix all-star game so another tie like this doesn't happen
the people who paid a good chunk to see the game ought to get thier money back