When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Ya-hoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different.
Grandpa Dan Zachary
and if you believe the Book, eat shit...
I don't hate anyone. You would be surprised.
Amazing...
so, tell me Dan, do you really believe in all those things from the Bible?
I believe in what the bible actually says and means, not the few things that you take out of context and twist to mean something else in your quest to belittle and crucify Christians.
phil has only been around a week or so and already has crabs pegged.
Taking things out of context and twisting them in his mind, is his specialty. If you are not left of left, crabs will never agree with a thing you say. He will never admit to being wrong.
To elaborate, medical researchers say that in order to understand bodily function they need more information on how things work at the molecular level. That's where the building blocks are.
because I point out to you that the book you believe tells you to cook using dung and ask if you can explain why you would believe such a thing, that means I hate you? Amazing indeed.
I believe in what the Bible actually says and means
so, you believe in all the passages I posted? Because that's what it actually says.
not the few things that you take out of context and twist to mean something else in your quest to belittle and crucify Christians.
uh... Christian's entire system of belief is a quest to belittle and crucify (actually it's more of a "damn" deal) people who don't believe their Book. The idea that you either accept it or you will suffer is at the very heart of what you believe... you think I belittle you? I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I? You tell me my soul needs saved.... well, then deal with being told that your mind needs saved from this ancient brainwashing rhetoric. If you can pray to save my soul, I can speak to try to save your mind. Fair is fair.
You guys are so holier than thou... you want a different set of rules for those that believe your book than you apply to those who don't.
because I point out to you that the book you believe tells you to cook using dung and ask if you can explain why you would believe such a thing, that means I hate you?
What you said was "and if you believe the Book, eat shit". This can in no way be twisted to mean that you were asking a question about cooking fuels which I already answered for you. It was petty and meanspirited.
so, you believe in all the passages I posted? Because that's what it actually says.
When taken out of context and twisted in the manner that you did. You have managed to give a whole new meaning to what was being talked about though.
uh... Christian's entire system of belief is a quest to belittle and crucify (actually it's more of a "damn" deal) people who don't believe their Book.
Wrong. It is more of a warning to what will happen to you. If you see a child with a loaded gun, do you try to explain to them what could happen and try to keep that from happening or do you let them do whatever they want?
I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I?
Neither have I nor the bible ever told you that. It does explain what will happen to you if you don't change your ways though. Actually, I have always wondered if hell is an actual place or rather more like that deep feeling you get when you really screw things up and it tortures you. Either way, I don't wish to find out.
You guys are so holier than thou... you want a different set of rules for those that believe your book than you apply to those who don't.
The rules are the same. It is the consequences that differ.
Hopefully someday you will be able to have an adult conversation with someone about this without twisting and distorting out of context verses from the bible.
What you said was "and if you believe the Book, eat shit". This can in no way be twisted to mean that you were asking a question about cooking fuels which I already answered for you. It was petty and meanspirited.
actually, the "eat shit" was a joke...I mean, the passage where he says to cook with human dung and then allows for it to be cow dung instead is sorta humorous.
I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I?
if you believe that book, yes you do.
Wrong. It is more of a warning to what will happen to you.
no...it's a condemnation.
If you see someone with a loaded gun pointed at their head, do you try to explain to them what could happen and try to keep that from happening or do you let them do whatever they want?
fuck you....my beliefs are NOT a loaded gun any more than your's are.
This is EXACTLY the kind of arrogant condesending attitude I'm trying to get you to see.
Your beliefs are a book that is chock full of war, murder and misery. I can just as easily say that I'm worning you that if you believe that, you are gonna get people killed, and history and that book of yours would back me up.
The rules are the same. It is the consequences that differ.
so, you are saying you can talk down to me because your belief condemns me more than my belief condemns you.
Amazing, you are taking your own question and twisting it as if I asked it.
I can't spend any more time on this right now. If you want to twist things, use fowl language, tell people to "eat shit" for their religous beliefs, claim that I asked you questions that you asked of me, etc., then so be it. Like I said, hopefully you will grow up enough to have an adult conversation about this sometime.
Amazing, you are taking your own question and twisting it as if I asked it.
well, you obviously aren't going to recognise that issue... and it was a rhetorical question I used to tell you that I consider you stating your believe in that book is equivilent to telling me to go to hell.
If you want to twist things, use fowl language,
foul language?
the suppression of a word is what gives it power to hurt someone.
tell people to "eat shit" for their religous beliefs
it is the Bible that does that, I only pointed it out.
claim that I asked you questions that you asked of me
a rhetorical question to make a point that you refuse to address.
Like I said, hopefully you will grow up enough to have an adult conversation about this sometime.
you talk down to me like this and you expect me to show you respect?
well, you obviously aren't going to recognise that issue...
I already responded to the question you asked (later claiming that I asked it) in post #758.
foul language?
Sorry for the typo. You can continue "worning"me of my typo's if you wish.
it is the Bible that does that, I only pointed it out.
We have been through this before. It does not say that you should "eat shit", that was your personal attack on people with religious beliefs.
a rhetorical question to make a point that you refuse to address.
I did address the question and you even commented on it already, so I know that you have read my response. This is the type of thing that makes you look childish and mean spirited towards those with religious beliefs.
When you care to have a real discussion and not just do some Christian bashing, then we can talk again.
If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple.
You say the above means: he doesn't say "you should love them less than me...he says you should hate them."
Read the following and learn: Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
crabs: The idea that you either accept it or you will suffer is at the very heart of what you believe... you think I belittle you? I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I? You tell me my soul needs saved.... well, then deal with being told that your mind needs saved from this ancient brainwashing rhetoric. If you can pray to save my soul, I can speak to try to save your mind. Fair is fair.
crabs: actually, the "eat shit" was a joke...I mean, the passage where he says to cook with human dung and then allows for it to be cow dung instead is sorta humorous.
Yes funny to a sick mind.
fuck you....my beliefs are NOT a loaded gun any more than your's are.
Did you intentionally misunderstand, crabs?
Your beliefs are a book that is chock full of war, murder and misery. That's life, crabs. The Book deals with it, unlike you.
I wish I were more versed in my Bible. I find it difficult to counter arguments made by Crab other than by the old fall back that I "beleive" therefore it is right. Not much of a debater I'm afraid.
crabs:and it was a rhetorical question I used to tell you that I consider you stating your believe in that book is equivilent to telling me to go to hell.
It does not say that you should "eat shit", that was your personal attack on people with religious beliefs.
ever seen the movie "The Ice Storm"?
Because of molecules we are connected to the outside world from our bodies. Like when you smell things, because when you smell a smell it's not really a smell, it's a part of the object that has come off of it, molecules. So when you smell something bad, it's like in a way you're eating it. This is why you should not really smell things, in the same way that you don't eat everything in the world around you because as a smell, it gets inside of you. So the next time you go into the bathroom after someone else has been there, remember what kinds of molecules you are in fact eating.
"I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.
Dan has tried but crabs won't meet him halfway. "
Did anyone here, besides yours truly, do anything but heap ridicule on crabs ideas of time, energy. space and existance? Maybe for one night, but after that, it was scorn.
Crab, you seem to think that being a believer is "paying tribute", an ordeal, a loss of freedom.
One thing I can guarantee is that you gain your freedom. You become free. Free from the baggage we all carry, no matter how good or bad our upbringing. You can choose to believe that or not. We all can only do so much in our debate with you on the web. I have not heard of anyone being converted from a debate like this. It is our mission, but as the cliche goes, "you can lead a horse to water..."
Have you heard the parable about it being easier to thread something (lack of bible traning letting me down here) through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? I think the same can apply to the intellectual.
Let your heart lead you. Your mind isn't doing you any favours. And if that fails, well you still have time, standing still or otherwise...
Have you heard the parable about it being easier to thread something (lack of bible traning letting me down here) through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?
It's easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle...
I don't want entrance to a kingdom...I'm already a part of an infinite system.
Let your heart lead you. Your mind isn't doing you any favours
My mind is doing just fine, thanks anyway. So is my heart.
That you think they don't work in concert tells me it's you who aren't so sure of yourself.
What do you think my mind is doing to me that's so terrible, anway?
My comment on second reading would appear mean spirited, I apologise. I think we both know where we stand. I'll never convince you w/ my bumbling through bible phrases and you'll never convince me of your opinion either. I've heard that side many times before.
Us Christians will either be vindicated come judgement day, or we are the stupidist bunch of people in the world. If we are then we are in good company w/ some far more intellectual and articulate people than me certainly.
I'll never convince you w/ my bumbling through bible phrases and you'll never convince me of your opinion either.
I have no desire to "convince" you of anything. I'm just saying what I think.
I've heard that side many times before.
unless you have heard it from me then not entirely you haven't. People are different...all of them...different. I try to present my own thoughts, not those of some imaginary "side" you would like to group me with. I understand that you want to be grouped with others who believe "the Word", in spite of the fact that you are unique and your interpretation of that "Word" is also therefore unique, but I have no such desire.
that's like the mob saying you have a choice between paying your tribute or having your knees broken...it's your choice.
It is not like a mob at all. It is more like you are on a sinking ship. You can jump in with or without a life preserver, your choice. You can reject Jesus Christ if you so desire but that is your choice. But make no mistake if there is a price to pay, and I believe that there is, you will pay it.
It is not like a mob at all. It is more like you are on a sinking ship. You can jump in with or without a life preserver, your choice. You can reject Jesus Christ if you so desire but that is your choice.
I have no idea what the above means. It has nothing to do with what I wrote.
you know nothing of my soul
I don't need to know anything about your soul. I know that if you reject Jesus then there is a price to pay. What you do with your soul is your business.
and if you believe the Book, eat shit...
I don't hate anyone. You would be surprised.
Amazing...
so, tell me Dan, do you really believe in all those things from the Bible?
I believe in what the bible actually says and means, not the few things that you take out of context and twist to mean something else in your quest to belittle and crucify Christians.
phil has only been around a week or so and already has crabs pegged.
Taking things out of context and twisting them in his mind, is his specialty. If you are not left of left, crabs will never agree with a thing you say. He will never admit to being wrong.
There is no right or wrong when you are just time, space and energy.
I see there's no reticence when it comes to ridiculing Crabs' beliefs, too.
Can you deny that humans are space, time and enegy. Seems to me the laws of physics apply.
To elaborate, medical researchers say that in order to understand bodily function they need more information on how things work at the molecular level. That's where the building blocks are.
because I point out to you that the book you believe tells you to cook using dung and ask if you can explain why you would believe such a thing, that means I hate you? Amazing indeed.
so, you believe in all the passages I posted? Because that's what it actually says.
uh... Christian's entire system of belief is a quest to belittle and crucify (actually it's more of a "damn" deal) people who don't believe their Book. The idea that you either accept it or you will suffer is at the very heart of what you believe... you think I belittle you? I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I? You tell me my soul needs saved.... well, then deal with being told that your mind needs saved from this ancient brainwashing rhetoric. If you can pray to save my soul, I can speak to try to save your mind. Fair is fair.
You guys are so holier than thou... you want a different set of rules for those that believe your book than you apply to those who don't.
because I point out to you that the book you believe tells you to cook using dung and ask if you can explain why you would believe such a thing, that means I hate you?
What you said was "and if you believe the Book, eat shit". This can in no way be twisted to mean that you were asking a question about cooking fuels which I already answered for you. It was petty and meanspirited.
so, you believe in all the passages I posted? Because that's what it actually says.
When taken out of context and twisted in the manner that you did. You have managed to give a whole new meaning to what was being talked about though.
uh... Christian's entire system of belief is a quest to belittle and crucify (actually it's more of a "damn" deal) people who don't believe their Book.
Wrong. It is more of a warning to what will happen to you. If you see a child with a loaded gun, do you try to explain to them what could happen and try to keep that from happening or do you let them do whatever they want?
I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I?
Neither have I nor the bible ever told you that. It does explain what will happen to you if you don't change your ways though. Actually, I have always wondered if hell is an actual place or rather more like that deep feeling you get when you really screw things up and it tortures you. Either way, I don't wish to find out.
You guys are so holier than thou... you want a different set of rules for those that believe your book than you apply to those who don't.
The rules are the same. It is the consequences that differ.
Hopefully someday you will be able to have an adult conversation with someone about this without twisting and distorting out of context verses from the bible.
actually, the "eat shit" was a joke...I mean, the passage where he says to cook with human dung and then allows for it to be cow dung instead is sorta humorous.
if you believe that book, yes you do.
no...it's a condemnation.
fuck you....my beliefs are NOT a loaded gun any more than your's are.
This is EXACTLY the kind of arrogant condesending attitude I'm trying to get you to see.
Your beliefs are a book that is chock full of war, murder and misery. I can just as easily say that I'm worning you that if you believe that, you are gonna get people killed, and history and that book of yours would back me up.
so, you are saying you can talk down to me because your belief condemns me more than my belief condemns you.
actually, the "eat shit" was a joke
Yeah, right.
I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I?
if you believe that book, yes you do.
Amazing, you are taking your own question and twisting it as if I asked it.
I can't spend any more time on this right now. If you want to twist things, use fowl language, tell people to "eat shit" for their religous beliefs, claim that I asked you questions that you asked of me, etc., then so be it. Like I said, hopefully you will grow up enough to have an adult conversation about this sometime.
well, you obviously aren't going to recognise that issue... and it was a rhetorical question I used to tell you that I consider you stating your believe in that book is equivilent to telling me to go to hell.
foul language?
the suppression of a word is what gives it power to hurt someone.
it is the Bible that does that, I only pointed it out.
a rhetorical question to make a point that you refuse to address.
you talk down to me like this and you expect me to show you respect?
well, you obviously aren't going to recognise that issue...
I already responded to the question you asked (later claiming that I asked it) in post #758.
foul language?
Sorry for the typo. You can continue "worning"me of my typo's if you wish.
it is the Bible that does that, I only pointed it out.
We have been through this before. It does not say that you should "eat shit", that was your personal attack on people with religious beliefs.
a rhetorical question to make a point that you refuse to address.
I did address the question and you even commented on it already, so I know that you have read my response. This is the type of thing that makes you look childish and mean spirited towards those with religious beliefs.
When you care to have a real discussion and not just do some Christian bashing, then we can talk again.
The sad part Dan is that crabs truely does believe that he IS having a meaningful conversation with you.
I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.
For the dishonest and disgusting crabs:
You posted Luke 14:26
You say the above means: he doesn't say "you should love them less than me...he says you should hate them."
Read the following and learn: Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.asp?ViewCommentary=Luke+14&Version=MHC
http://www.answering-islam.org/BibleCom/lk14_26i.htm
crabs wrote: it was your book that said you should cook with dung.
That wouldn't be much of a fire, crabs, since there ain't that much of you.
crabs: The idea that you either accept it or you will suffer is at the very heart of what you believe... you think I belittle you? I don't tell you to literally go to hell, do I? You tell me my soul needs saved.... well, then deal with being told that your mind needs saved from this ancient brainwashing rhetoric. If you can pray to save my soul, I can speak to try to save your mind. Fair is fair.
crabs does Satan's work
crabs: actually, the "eat shit" was a joke...I mean, the passage where he says to cook with human dung and then allows for it to be cow dung instead is sorta humorous.
Yes funny to a sick mind.
fuck you....my beliefs are NOT a loaded gun any more than your's are.
Did you intentionally misunderstand, crabs?
Your beliefs are a book that is chock full of war, murder and misery. That's life, crabs. The Book deals with it, unlike you.
I wish I were more versed in my Bible. I find it difficult to counter arguments made by Crab other than by the old fall back that I "beleive" therefore it is right. Not much of a debater I'm afraid.
crabs:and it was a rhetorical question I used to tell you that I consider you stating your believe in that book is equivilent to telling me to go to hell.
I believe in the Book, crabs.
I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.
Dan has tried but crabs won't meet him halfway.
I wish I were more versed in my Bible.
I second that and I am trying to do something about it.
ever seen the movie "The Ice Storm"?
and yet in Luke...
"I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.
Dan has tried but crabs won't meet him halfway. "
Did anyone here, besides yours truly, do anything but heap ridicule on crabs ideas of time, energy. space and existance? Maybe for one night, but after that, it was scorn.
well, Rick, if it were a coherent reference to " time, energy. space and existance" maybe I would.
crabs: and yet in Luke...
Did you read?: http://www.answering-islam.org/BibleCom/lk14_26i.htm
"well, Rick, if it were a coherent reference to " time, energy. space and existance" maybe I would. "
Maybe a little more curiosity would serve you well
well, Rick, you know what curiosity did to the cat.
God and hyperbolic rhetoric...swell
God tells me that he's gonna throw me into a lake of fire.
But, hey, we're still alive and that means there is still time for both of us.
you really believe time is gonna stop?
God tells me that he's gonna throw me into a lake of fire.
It is your choice, crabs.
you really believe time is gonna stop?
If I believe everything else in the Bible then yeah, time will stop, one day. It may not be before I die, but you never know.
threaten me with eternal damnation in hell....some "choice"
that's like the mob saying you have a chioce between paying your tribute or having your knees broken...it's your choice.
and the day after that?
and the day after that?
heaven or hell...
Crab, you seem to think that being a believer is "paying tribute", an ordeal, a loss of freedom.
One thing I can guarantee is that you gain your freedom. You become free. Free from the baggage we all carry, no matter how good or bad our upbringing. You can choose to believe that or not. We all can only do so much in our debate with you on the web. I have not heard of anyone being converted from a debate like this. It is our mission, but as the cliche goes, "you can lead a horse to water..."
Consider yourself lead.
I choose to take responsibility for my own baggage.
what is your "mission"?
to threaten people with hell?
if there is no time, how can it exist, much less exist for all eternity?
Have you heard the parable about it being easier to thread something (lack of bible traning letting me down here) through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? I think the same can apply to the intellectual.
Let your heart lead you. Your mind isn't doing you any favours. And if that fails, well you still have time, standing still or otherwise...
It's easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle...
I don't want entrance to a kingdom...I'm already a part of an infinite system.
My mind is doing just fine, thanks anyway. So is my heart.
That you think they don't work in concert tells me it's you who aren't so sure of yourself.
What do you think my mind is doing to me that's so terrible, anway?
My comment on second reading would appear mean spirited, I apologise. I think we both know where we stand. I'll never convince you w/ my bumbling through bible phrases and you'll never convince me of your opinion either. I've heard that side many times before.
Us Christians will either be vindicated come judgement day, or we are the stupidist bunch of people in the world. If we are then we are in good company w/ some far more intellectual and articulate people than me certainly.
I have no desire to "convince" you of anything. I'm just saying what I think.
unless you have heard it from me then not entirely you haven't. People are different...all of them...different. I try to present my own thoughts, not those of some imaginary "side" you would like to group me with. I understand that you want to be grouped with others who believe "the Word", in spite of the fact that you are unique and your interpretation of that "Word" is also therefore unique, but I have no such desire.
I believe neither of these things.
that's like the mob saying you have a choice between paying your tribute or having your knees broken...it's your choice.
It is not like a mob at all. It is more like you are on a sinking ship. You can jump in with or without a life preserver, your choice. You can reject Jesus Christ if you so desire but that is your choice. But make no mistake if there is a price to pay, and I believe that there is, you will pay it.
get in or we hold you head under is more like it.
no real choice at all.
you know nothing of my soul
get in or we hold you head under is more like it.
I have no idea what the above means. It has nothing to do with what I wrote.
you know nothing of my soul
I don't need to know anything about your soul. I know that if you reject Jesus then there is a price to pay. What you do with your soul is your business.
"I'll make him a deal he can't refuse"
Somehow I don't believe you.
at least phil no hat told the truth about this much...