It doesn't make any sense but I don't think they care about the bag program. I think it's a backlash against heavy handed attempts by a religious group to dominate the culture.
They probably just fugure "hey, let's make some trouble."
I think it's a backlash against heavy handed attempts by a religious group to dominate the culture.
Oh Geez, not more of that nonsense.
Where were you all in October? This wasn't even an issue until after the election. Now you guys are just eating up the crap the Left Wing Propaganda Machine is spoon feeding you.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 05:16am.]
I read plenty. And the smug religious conservatives have come out of the woodwork claiming righteous victory.
I don't blame conservative/religious leaders for striking when the iron is hot. That's what I'd do. Plant your flag on the highest hill and grab as much power as you can.
[Edited 6 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 06:00am.]
It doesn't make any sense but I don't think they care about the bag program. I think it's a backlash against heavy handed attempts by a religious group to dominate the culture.
Yea we covered it at the last meeting. It was the second topic. How to dominate the culture using heavy handed tactics.Someone had the great idea of giving away bags when people brought their Christmas trees in for recycling, That'll learn them heathens. Mwaahaaahaaa! Then we had cookies and punch.
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? They were trying to encourage people to recycle their Christmas trees you'd think the left would be all aglo about it. Not to mention the many people who aren't even religious who have Christmas trees what a joke yea it's all part of the conspiracy to convert everyone.
"Bush-Cheney 04 won 97 of the fastest growing 100 counties in America, a domination of the exurbs that should chill every Democrat for whom the MoveOn.org KoolAid has worn off. (Hewitt missed the irony of the Jim Jones metaphor). Dems can barely imagine operating in these areas much less winning them because they are defined by church-goers and married parents with children, two demographic groups that view the Democratic Party as not just different, but as an enemy of much of what they value,."
Chilling, indeed.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 11:17am.]
Dr. Daniel L. Akin, President, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC Dr. Randy Alcorn, Director, Eternal Perspective Ministries, Gresham, OR Kerby Anderson, National Director, Probe Ministries and host, Point of View radio, Dallas, TX Dr. Neil T. Anderson, Founder and President Emeritus, Freedom in Christ Ministries Jack and Kay Arthur, CEO and Founders, Precepts Ministries International Dr. Barry Asmus, Senior Economist, National Center for Policy Analysis, Dallas, TX Ted Baehr, Chairman, Christian Film & Television Commission, Camarillo, CA Dr. Mark Bailey, President, Dallas Theological Seminary Gary Bauer, President, American Values Joel Belz, Founder and Publisher, World Magazine Tal Brooke, President/Chairman, Spiritual Counterfeits Project Inc. Dr. E. Ray Clendenen, Executive editor, Bibles and Reference Books, Broadman & Holman Publishers Rev. Eugene Clingman, Executive Administrator, International Church Council Project, Hathaway Pines, CA Dr. Darryl DelHousaye, President, Phoenix Seminary and Senior Pastor, Scottsdale Bible Church, Scottsdale, AZ Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Author, Host of Revive our Hearts radio Dr. Lane T. Dennis, President and Publisher, Good News Publishers/ Crossway Books and Bibles, Wheaton, IL Dr. James Dobson, Chairman, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO Dr. Bert Downs, President, Western Seminary, Portland, OR Dr. Tom Elliff, Pastor, First Southern Baptist Church, Del City, Oklahoma, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention Dr. Steve Farrar, Founder and Chairman, Men’s Leadership Ministries, Frisco, TX Dr. Ronnie Floyd, Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church – Springdale, AR and The Church at Pinnacle Hills – Rogers, AR Dr. Jack Hayford, Chancellor, The King’s College and Seminary, Van Nuys, CA Dr. Jim Henry, Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church, Orlando, FL, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention Dr. R. Kent Hughes, Senior Pastor, College Church in Wheaton, Wheaton, IL Susan Hunt, Author The Hon. Don Hodel, President, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO Charles W. Jarvis, Chairman, USA Next-United Seniors Association Dr. David Jeremiah, Founder, Turning Point Radio and Television Ministries and Senior Pastor, Shadow Mountain Community Church, El Cajon, CA Dr. D. James Kennedy, Chancellor, Knox Theological Seminary, Fort Lauderdale, FL Dr. Gary Kinnaman, Senior Minister, Word of Grace Church, Mesa, Arizona Dr. R. T. Kendall, Bible teacher, Author Bob Lepine, Co-Host, FamilyLife Today Dr. Robert Lewis, Pastor at Large, Fellowship Bible Church, Little Rock, AR Dr. Crawford W. Loritts, Jr., Author, Speaker, Radio Host, Atlanta, GA H.B. London Jr., Vice President, Church, Clergy & Medical Outreach; Focus on the Family Dr. James MacDonald, Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel, Rolling Meadows, IL Len Munsil, President, Center for Arizona Policy Dr. Marvin Olasky, Editor-in-chief, World Magazine Dr. Paige Patterson, President, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention Ron Prentice, Executive Director, California Family Council Dr. Dennis Rainey, President, FamilyLife, Little Rock, AR Alan E. Sears, President, Alliance Defense Fund, Scottsdale, AZ Dr. Joseph M. Stowell III, President, Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, IL Dr. Joseph Wasmond, President, Freedom in Christ Ministries, Knoxville, TN Dr. Stu Weber, Senior Pastor, Good Shepherd Community Church, Gresham, OR Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman, American Family Association ÂÂ
Professors at Christian colleges and theological seminaries ÂÂ
Dr. Gregg R. Allison, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY Dr. James A. Borland, Liberty University, Lynchburg, VA Dr. Gerry Breshears, Western Seminary, Portland, OR Dr. L. Russ Bush, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC Dr. Fred Chay, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ Dr. Richard C. Chewning, Baylor University (Emeritus), and John Brown University, Siloam Springs, AR Dr. Jack Cottrell, Cincinnati Bible Seminary, Cincinnati, OH Dr. Kendell Easley, Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, Germantown, TN Dr. Wayne Grudem, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ Dr. Howard G. Hendricks, Dallas Theological Seminary, Dallas, TX Dr. George W. Knight, III, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Taylors, SC Dr. J. Carl Laney, Western Seminary, Portland, OR Dr. David E. Lanier, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC Dr. Steve Lemke, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, New Orleans, LA Dr. Daniel R. Heimbach, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC Dr. Mark Daniel Liederbach, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC Dr. Tom J. Nettles, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY Dr. Dorothy Kelley Patterson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX Dr. Alvin L. Reid, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC Dr. Leland Ryken, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL Dr. Wayne G. Strickland, Multnomah Bible College and Seminary, Portland, OR Dr. Steven R Tracy, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ Dr. Bruce Ware, The Southern Baptist Seminary, Louisville, KY Dr. Paul Wegner, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ Dr. Robert W. Yarbrough, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, IL
You mean people are actually voting based on their beliefs? Say it aint so! You mean they're are professors at seminaries teaching this stuff too? Yep it's a theocracy convert or be banished!
Yea what heavy handed attempts to dominate the culture. To actually have the gall to voice their opinion, profess their faith and urge others to do the same, the horrors.Â
WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"
NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.
And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;-- to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.
The ACLU, the editorial boards and the rest of the left would be appoplectic if that were written today by a President. They're screaming theocracy now, I can't imagine what they'd say to George Washington.
You didn't see documentaries made about how wonderful and religious John Kerry was, and have them released a week before the election.
No but you did see Kerry campaigning at churches. And headlines like these.
Faith Increasingly Part of Kerry's Campaign
From the pulpit to the pastures, Kerry is increasingly spreading a more spiritual message and visiting local churches, as he did the past two days in Ohio, to expound on the political lessons of the Bible's James and Saint Paul.
"Through many dangers, toils and snares I have already come," Kerry intoned Sunday morning at Mt. Olivet Baptist Church. " 'Tis grace that brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home." He told the crowd of 1,500 he wasn't there to preach but went on to, well, preach about the Good Samaritan, the emptiness of a faith devoid of deeds and God's high calling to love one another -- before criticizing from the pulpit President Bush over Social Security and jobs.
Well as a church that's their perogative. I'm not Catholic but I know they are vehemently opposed to abortion and view a politician who would support them as being against their beliefs and in violation of church law. It's their perogative to decide whom or whom not to recieve communion and whose ideas represents them better. Again, any thought from a religious group is discounted unless they agree.
"Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said in a written release that it was clear “values voters have ushered President George W. Bush down the aisle for a second term. What does this mean? It means that if the president stays true to his word, the next four years will be defining ones for family issues, including marriage, life and taxes.”'
What would either of you see wrong with a heavy-handed attempt? What difference does it make whether it's heavy handed or subtle?
You're the one who said that those attempts were heavy handed. It does make a difference. You're the one who made the accusation. You posted examples of what you thought were heavyhanded I disagree that any of them were.
Don't you want Christianity to be the dominant religion of the culture? That would mean power and influence.
Well it always has been if another religion emerges as the majority religion so be it.
Because the left is hysterical that simply because people of faith used it to guide them in their life and their decision making process that we're suddenly a theocracy.
It's nonsense. The quote from George Washington I posted would be met with vitriol on the left and the Michael Nuedow's of the world would be freaking out. If anything our country has gotten more and more secular. Has it helped? I don't think so but that's the direction we've taken. The second anyone speaks their mind based on their ideology they are dismissed by the left instantly simply because it comes from a religious point of view, again unless they agree.
There's nothing heavyhanded about it, these people are doing what they think is best and are guided by their faith and for that are castigasted.
That it's because it's Christ's birthday is a lie.
I don't argue against that fact, but does it matter? We could celebrate it any day.
They wanted to convert people from pagan worship.
Well they did that. Now they just worship at Walmart.
You're a cynical man.
That ain't cynical, that's realistic. Mammon and mammaries, the twin deities of the religion of Americanity.
98% of ALL Americans observe Christmas. The 2% like crabhole and Co. delight in trying to destroy it.
does it matter that the Church lies to you? Obviously not.
"Quit talking to me crabgrass" - Torpedo-8
The Church isn't lying to me.
We can choose any day to celebrate Christs birth.
You're just a Christian hater.
now where did I hear that today was Christ's birthday and that's what Christmas is about?
The Church isn't the same thing as a Christian.
I give gifts because I want to give someone something, not because the calandar tells me I'm supposed to.
If you are required to give it, it's no longer a gift.
Then don't give anything.
Is someone holding a gun to your head?
The anti-Christians know no bounds.
Recycling Christmas trees is unfair and bigoted!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0412280272dec28,0,4079262,print.story?coll=chi-news-hed
Â
Oh the humanity!
[Edited by on Dec 28, 2004 at 11:35am.]
It doesn't make any sense but I don't think they care about the bag program. I think it's a backlash against heavy handed attempts by a religious group to dominate the culture.
They probably just fugure "hey, let's make some trouble."
I think it's a backlash against heavy handed attempts by a religious group to dominate the culture.
Oh Geez, not more of that nonsense.
Where were you all in October? This wasn't even an issue until after the election. Now you guys are just eating up the crap the Left Wing Propaganda Machine is spoon feeding you.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 05:16am.]
"Where were you all in October?"
Volunteering for the Kerry campaign.
"Now you guys are just eating up the crap the Left Wing Propaganda Machine is spoon feeding you."
Set me straight then. Give me your take.
None of you was saying squat about "The heavy hand of religion" a couple months ago.
You didn't set me straight because you can't.
I read plenty. And the smug religious conservatives have come out of the woodwork claiming righteous victory.
I don't blame conservative/religious leaders for striking when the iron is hot. That's what I'd do. Plant your flag on the highest hill and grab as much power as you can.
[Edited 6 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 06:00am.]
Like I said, where was this nonsense in October?
I agree that some conservatives are trying to take advantage of the election, but you and yours are painting with a wide brush.
You all have just found something to latch onto.
It doesn't make any sense but I don't think they care about the bag program. I think it's a backlash against heavy handed attempts by a religious group to dominate the culture.
Yea we covered it at the last meeting. It was the second topic. How to dominate
the culture using heavy handed tactics.Someone had the great idea of giving away bags when people brought their Christmas trees in for recycling, That'll learn them heathens. Mwaahaaahaaa! Then we had cookies and punch.
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? They were trying to encourage people to recycle their Christmas trees you'd think the left would be all aglo about it. Not to mention the many people who aren't even religious who have Christmas trees what a joke yea it's all part of the conspiracy to convert everyone.
Â
I didn't say their actions made any sense (in case you didn't read what I wrote). I'm saying I think it's a backlash.
Â
What heavy handed attempts to dominate the culture have you seen?
All the manufactured "threats to Christmas" I read about. Face it, it's observed by hearly everyone.
Y2K JOE!
So the people suing to take Christmas trees down etc. are imagined?
 Face it, it's observed by hearly everyone.
Fallwell Returns
The Bishop that said voting Demcrat requires a trip to confession. And the attempts to have Kerry ostracized from the Catholic Church.
Statements like this:
"Bush-Cheney 04 won 97 of the fastest growing 100 counties in America, a domination of the exurbs that should chill every Democrat for whom the MoveOn.org KoolAid has worn off. (Hewitt missed the irony of the Jim Jones metaphor). Dems can barely imagine operating in these areas much less winning them because they are defined by church-goers and married parents with children, two demographic groups that view the Democratic Party as not just different, but as an enemy of much of what they value,."
Chilling, indeed.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 11:17am.]
Then there's these gentlemen
Pastors and Christian Leaders ÂÂ
Dr. Daniel L. Akin, President, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Randy Alcorn, Director, Eternal Perspective Ministries, Gresham, ORÂÂ
Kerby Anderson, National Director, Probe Ministries and host, Point of View radio, Dallas, TX
Dr. Neil T. Anderson, Founder and President Emeritus, Freedom in Christ Ministries
Jack and Kay Arthur, CEO and Founders, Precepts Ministries International
Dr. Barry Asmus, Senior Economist, National Center for Policy Analysis, Dallas, TX
Ted Baehr, Chairman, Christian Film & Television Commission, Camarillo, CA
Dr. Mark Bailey, President, Dallas Theological Seminary Gary Bauer, President, American Values
Joel Belz, Founder and Publisher, World Magazine
Tal Brooke, President/Chairman, Spiritual Counterfeits Project Inc.
Dr. E. Ray Clendenen, Executive editor, Bibles and Reference Books, Broadman & Holman Publishers
Rev. Eugene Clingman, Executive Administrator, International Church Council Project, Hathaway Pines, CA
Dr. Darryl DelHousaye, President, Phoenix Seminary and Senior Pastor, Scottsdale Bible Church, Scottsdale, AZ Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Author, Host of Revive our Hearts radio
Dr. Lane T. Dennis, President and Publisher, Good News Publishers/ Crossway Books and Bibles, Wheaton, IL
Dr. James Dobson, Chairman, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO
Dr. Bert Downs, President, Western Seminary, Portland, OR
Dr. Tom Elliff, Pastor, First Southern Baptist Church, Del City, Oklahoma, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention
Dr. Steve Farrar, Founder and Chairman, Men’s Leadership Ministries, Frisco, TX
Dr. Ronnie Floyd, Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church – Springdale, AR and The Church at Pinnacle Hills – Rogers, AR
Dr. Jack Hayford, Chancellor, The King’s College and Seminary, Van Nuys, CA
Dr. Jim Henry, Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church, Orlando, FL, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention
Dr. R. Kent Hughes, Senior Pastor, College Church in Wheaton, Wheaton, IL
Susan Hunt, Author
The Hon. Don Hodel, President, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO
Charles W. Jarvis, Chairman, USA Next-United Seniors Association
Dr. David Jeremiah, Founder, Turning Point Radio and Television Ministries and Senior Pastor, Shadow Mountain Community Church, El Cajon, CA
Dr. D. James Kennedy, Chancellor, Knox Theological Seminary, Fort Lauderdale, FL
Dr. Gary Kinnaman, Senior Minister, Word of Grace Church, Mesa, Arizona
Dr. R. T. Kendall, Bible teacher, Author
Bob Lepine, Co-Host, FamilyLife Today
Dr. Robert Lewis, Pastor at Large, Fellowship Bible Church, Little Rock, AR
Dr. Crawford W. Loritts, Jr., Author, Speaker, Radio Host, Atlanta, GA
H.B. London Jr., Vice President, Church, Clergy & Medical Outreach; Focus on the Family
Dr. James MacDonald, Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel, Rolling Meadows, IL
Len Munsil, President, Center for Arizona Policy
Dr. Marvin Olasky, Editor-in-chief, World Magazine
Dr. Paige Patterson, President, Southwestern Baptist
Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention
Ron Prentice, Executive Director, California Family Council
Dr. Dennis Rainey, President, FamilyLife, Little Rock, AR
Alan E. Sears, President, Alliance Defense Fund, Scottsdale, AZ
Dr. Joseph M. Stowell III, President, Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, IL
Dr. Joseph Wasmond, President, Freedom in Christ Ministries, Knoxville, TN
Dr. Stu Weber, Senior Pastor, Good Shepherd Community Church, Gresham, OR
Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman, American Family Association
ÂÂ
Professors at Christian colleges and theological seminaries ÂÂ
Dr. Gregg R. Allison, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY
Dr. James A. Borland, Liberty University, Lynchburg, VA
Dr. Gerry Breshears, Western Seminary, Portland, OR
Dr. L. Russ Bush, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Fred Chay, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
Dr. Richard C. Chewning, Baylor University (Emeritus), and John Brown University, Siloam Springs, AR
Dr. Jack Cottrell, Cincinnati Bible Seminary, Cincinnati, OH
Dr. Kendell Easley, Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, Germantown, TN
Dr. Wayne Grudem, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
Dr. Howard G. Hendricks, Dallas Theological Seminary, Dallas, TX
Dr. George W. Knight, III, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Taylors, SC
Dr. J. Carl Laney, Western Seminary, Portland, OR
Dr. David E. Lanier, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Steve Lemke, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, New Orleans, LA
Dr. Daniel R. Heimbach, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Mark Daniel Liederbach, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Tom J. Nettles, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY
Dr. Dorothy Kelley Patterson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX
Dr. Alvin L. Reid, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Leland Ryken, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL
Dr. Wayne G. Strickland, Multnomah Bible College and Seminary, Portland, OR
Dr. Steven R Tracy, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
Dr. Bruce Ware, The Southern Baptist Seminary, Louisville, KY
Dr. Paul Wegner, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
Dr. Robert W. Yarbrough, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, IL
This is a partial list of signers.
You mean people are actually voting based on their beliefs? Say it aint so! You mean they're are professors at seminaries teaching this stuff too? Yep it's a theocracy convert or be banished!
Yea what heavy handed attempts to dominate the culture. To actually have the gall to voice their opinion, profess their faith and urge others to do the same, the horrors.Â
Keep those sarcastic comments coming, Rob.
Like I asked JT to do, and he couldn't.
Set me straight.
You still haven't provided any examples of heavy handed attempts to dominate the culture.
[Edited by on Dec 29, 2004 at 11:35am.]
You wanted examples, I gave you examples. It's all you're getting.
How is it heavy handed? You might not like what they have to say but it's not heavy handed.
From one of the links Rick provided.
PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON'S FIRST THANKSGIVING PROCLAMATION:
FROM THE MASSACHUSETTS CENTINEL, WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 14, 1789:
General Thanksgiving
By the PRESIDENT of the United States Of America
A PROCLAMATION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"
NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.
And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;-- to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.
The ACLU, the editorial boards and the rest of the left would be appoplectic if that were written today by a President. They're screaming theocracy now, I can't imagine what they'd say to George Washington.
Maybe they should have done the same thing back then.
Did George Washington always say or do the right thing?
It's not heavy handed. It's silly.
The trouble is, the Left thinks people can and should somehow turn off their religious beliefs outside of Church.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385474989/qid=1104349721/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-2777586-5326532?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0385474989/ref=sib_fs_top/102-2777586-5326532?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00Q&checkSum=Et%2Baj%2FS30H6iX%2FNORXl2x2mQ4fMD%2BGitfZ%2Bc11wKO8Q%3D#reader-page
[Edited by on Dec 29, 2004 at 11:55am.]
Set me straight then. Give me your take.
Uhm, Rick. You're the one making accusations.
Like I said, this was a non-issue in October.
[Edited by on Dec 29, 2004 at 11:53am.]
It was an issue then, and it's an issue now.
You didn't see documentaries made about how wonderful and religious John Kerry was, and have them released a week before the election.
Instead we saw the Swift Boat Veterans for Personal destruction of John Kerry.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 12:00pm.]
Did George Washington always say or do the right thing?
You didn't see documentaries made about how wonderful and religious John Kerry was, and have them released a week before the election.
No but you did see Kerry campaigning at churches. And headlines like these.
Faith Increasingly Part of Kerry's Campaign
From the pulpit to the pastures, Kerry is increasingly spreading a more spiritual message and visiting local churches, as he did the past two days in Ohio, to expound on the political lessons of the Bible's James and Saint Paul.
"Through many dangers, toils and snares I have already come," Kerry intoned Sunday morning at Mt. Olivet Baptist Church. " 'Tis grace that brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home." He told the crowd of 1,500 he wasn't there to preach but went on to, well, preach about the Good Samaritan, the emptiness of a faith devoid of deeds and God's high calling to love one another -- before criticizing from the pulpit President Bush over Social Security and jobs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40595-2004Oct17.html
</NITF>
</NITF>
NewsMax gleefully reports Catholic rage against Kerry
It was an issue then, and it's an issue now.
I don't recall you or the other Lefty's mentioning it.
You didn't see documentaries made about how wonderful and religious John Kerry was, and have them released a week before the election.
Instead we saw the Swift Boat Veterans for Personal destruction of John Kerry.
What does this have to do with the conversation?
NewsMax gleefully reports Catholic rage against Kerry
Sorry, but Kerry's politics don't mesh with his religion.
Once again, you think they should somehow be separated.
Well as a church that's their perogative. I'm not Catholic but I know they are vehemently opposed to abortion and view a politician who would support them as being against their beliefs and in violation of church law. It's their perogative to decide whom or whom not to recieve communion and whose ideas represents them better. Again, any thought from a religious group is discounted unless they agree.
SBC/ Family Research council says Bush their blushing bride
"Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said in a written release that it was clear “values voters have ushered President George W. Bush down the aisle for a second term. What does this mean? It means that if the president stays true to his word, the next four years will be defining ones for family issues, including marriage, life and taxes.”'
[Edited by on Dec 29, 2004 at 12:24pm.]
Do you think that statement is untrue?
Do you consider that "Heavy Handed"?
I'd think the outcome of all the gay marriage votes would tell you something.
This is the third opportunity I'm giving you to set me straight, JT.
I've reeled out examples. I'm backing up what I say.
You have the floor. And the last word.
[Edited 5 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 12:54pm.]
I don't consider that heavy handed.
Nor do I.
You might disagree with it Rick, but disagreeing with something or someone does not a heavy handed tactic make.
What would either of you see wrong with a heavy-handed attempt? What difference does it make whether it's heavy handed or subtle?
Don't you want Christianity to be the dominant religion of the culture? That would mean power and influence.
Quit being weenies. Power you TAKE.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 01:30pm.]
What would either of you see wrong with a heavy-handed attempt? What difference does it make whether it's heavy handed or subtle?
You're the one who said that those attempts were heavy handed. It does make a difference. You're the one who made the accusation. You posted examples of what you thought were heavyhanded I disagree that any of them were.
Don't you want Christianity to be the dominant religion of the culture? That would mean power and influence.
Well it always has been if another religion emerges as the majority religion so be it.
Quit being such weenies. Power you TAKE.
I"t does make a difference. "
Why?
Because the left is hysterical that simply because people of faith used it to guide them in their life and their decision making process that we're suddenly a theocracy.
It's nonsense. The quote from George Washington I posted would be met with vitriol on the left and the Michael Nuedow's of the world would be freaking out. If anything our country has gotten more and more secular. Has it helped? I don't think so but that's the direction we've taken. The second anyone speaks their mind based on their ideology they are dismissed by the left instantly simply because it comes from a religious point of view, again unless they agree.
There's nothing heavyhanded about it, these people are doing what they think is best and are guided by their faith and for that are castigasted.
"If anything our country has gotten more and more secular. Has it helped? I don't think so but that's the direction we've taken. "
If it's as critical as you say it is, those characters on the left have gotta go.
By any means necessary.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Dec 29, 2004 at 01:48pm.]