However, it seems from the wording that the purpose of allowing people to keep and bear Arms is to ensure a well-regulated Militia, not to let some redneck drive around with a gun rack in the back of his pickup truck. What's that got to do with a well-regulated militia?
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citi- zens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are commissioned of- ficers of the National Guard.   (b) The classes of the militia are--     (1) the organized militia, which consists of   the National Guard and the Naval Militia;   and     (2) the unorganized militia, which consists   of the members of the militia who are not   members of the National Guard or the Naval   Militia.
well regulated doesn't necessarily imply that i stand perfectly straight and "sir" every officer that walks by me.
but the key point comes when you break down the sentence. what part of it can stand alone? i'd say, and my english teacher in high school, pain that she was, would be proud of me for, that the standalone part would be "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" (is that comma really in there????) which, notwithstanding the other national security items in the constitution sounds like an absolute. of course that's kind of a moot point when you consider what the stated intent of the second amendment is.
So, under the USC cite, the "militia" is defined as the organized militia (National Guard & Naval Militia) and the unorganized militia (all other members of the militia, i.e. army, marines, air force). Non-military citizens are not members of the militia.
You cannot look at a statute or a constitutional provision on a stand alone basis. That's like saying don't look at all the provisions or qualifications in a rule. You must consider it as a whole.
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citi- zens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are commissioned of- ficers of the National Guard.
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
However, it seems from the wording that the purpose of allowing people to keep and bear Arms is to ensure a                              well-regulated Militia, not to let some redneck drive around with a gun rack in the back of his pickup truck. What's that                              got to do with a well-regulated militia?
I believe that this is actually two statements Dal. The first part regarding a well regulated militia and the second part the right of the people. I believe that the founders were trying to protect us from becoming a police state. Now I may not like leroy the redneck anymore than you but in order to protect my rights I must respect his as well.
THX- sure, I work with an old Wise Man who owns a gun shop in Anoka, he always wants me to come out and go to the range or go hunting with him, but I've never gone. Looks like I might have to go soon! I've never shot a real gun, but would rather start out in a range then in the woods.
If this part is installed in your gun, it can discharge if the gun is dropped or jarred. Obviously this will lead to an unintentional discharge and may cause serious bodily injury to yourself or another.
Artemis,I had never shot a gun until THX took me to the range.All the guys there just think it's pretty cool a woman shows up.:) I have to say that the minute a loaded gun is put into your hands there is a blast of emotions.....fear,power.....more fear! It took me a whole session at the range just to get a whole ten round clip off.I kept limp wristing and the bullet would jam in the chamber.THX tried to teach me several techniques that he hoped would able me to not limp wrist from the recoil of the blast.Finally I just pretended to be Sabrina on Charlies Angels and said "freeze!" and ten shots went off into the range......ah well whatever works......only two out of ten hit anything on the target........now I have to work on aim! I will say that I am glad that I know how to clean,load and shoot our gun since we have it in the house.I would have no problem if my family was in danger to use it.
J.T., THANK YOU for setting this up! And especially for leaving the "alternative" message on the Jesse Ventura board at the new PP venue. I didn't know where to find you guys! Sure, I've got friends at a few Yahoo clubs, but the Cooler Crew are my Homies.
First, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to provide a "well-regulated" militia, which is by definition, not some loner with a gun rack in his truck.
Second, the restriction against infringing the right to bear arms only applies to the federal government, according to the Supremes. States can constitutionally limit the right. When the 2nd Amendment was enacted, the US did not have a standing, federal militia. States were nervous that if we did, it would overpower the states' militias. The amendment ecnompasses both the distrust of standing armies and the goal of protecting state militias from federal encroachment. Of course, history has changed much of this rationale.
Third, the Supremes have sindicated that, considering the purpose of the amendment, it protects only the right to bear arms commonly used in militia-related activies (i.e., war). Thus, you have the right to a sword, but not a shotgun. (I personally find this point ludicrous, but I'm throwin it out there!)
and not only that, dal, but a fully-automatic assault rifle :) now, where's my m-16?
here's the key to what a militia is. you're exactly right. when the amendment was made, a large, standing professional military force was unacceptable. when it comes to the armed forces, you have 2 general classes, the regular, professional military (army, navy, air force, marines, and occasionally the coast guard), and the militia, which is further subdivided into the organised and the unorganised (which is where me, and most of the other guys reading this fall). the unorganised militia is exactly that. a collection of joe rednecks (and a bunch of john q. public's who aren't rednecks) with a gunrack in the back of their pickup truck cabs. unorganised does not necessarily imply not well regulated, as i've got to believe that the ucmj would apply to any unorganised militia member while in performing the actual service and duties of said militia.
while i love the second amendment, and support concealed carry the thing i worry about is that people will go get their licenses to carry concealed, get in a situation where they have to pull that gun, and be afraid to pull the trigger, and let the perpetrator turn that gun on them. could i do that? i dunno. i'd rather not find out either.
the thing i worry about is that people will go get their licenses to carry concealed, get in a situation where they have to pull that gun, and be afraid to pull the trigger, and let the perpetrator turn that gun on them.
So, you're in favor of a constitutional amendment prohibiting cowardice? :)
So, you're in favor of a constitutional amendment prohibiting cowardice?
While we're at it, can we get one against stupidity? That should take care of a lot of frivolous lawsuits and warning labels on products (Hair Dryer: Do not use while in shower)
in the words of jesse, "... means using both hands"
Going to hold my breath and wait right here until Dennis,Robowens,Muskwa,Mr.8 and the others show up!
dammit. now that i've read it, i'm gonna have to do cpr when she passes out.
Ares,Pretend you are Dennis and post a whole bunch of socialist rheoric that I can tear apart piece by peice!LOL!
sorry, scribe. i'd have no idea where to start! lol!
How do you feel about our right to bear arms?
How do you feel about our right to bear arms?
I think bears should have arms. I don't think we have a right to those bears' arms.
Okay I saw that coming......although I suspected it would be Ares!LOL!
Knock,Knock,Knock
BLAM BLAM BLAM!
always remember that the right granted by the second amendment is the one by which the others are retained.
Yup,Yup,Yup!
Even if an innocent pizza guy does take it in the shirt once in a while!LOL!
How 'bout the right to arm bears?
However, it seems from the wording that the purpose of allowing people to keep and bear Arms is to ensure a well-regulated Militia, not to let some redneck drive around with a gun rack in the back of his pickup truck. What's that got to do with a well-regulated militia?
Damn! A point I can argue and I have to go run kids! I'll get to it later Dal!:)
10USC311, dal.
well regulated doesn't necessarily imply that i stand perfectly straight and "sir" every officer that walks by me.
but the key point comes when you break down the sentence. what part of it can stand alone? i'd say, and my english teacher in high school, pain that she was, would be proud of me for, that the standalone part would be "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" (is that comma really in there????) which, notwithstanding the other national security items in the constitution sounds like an absolute. of course that's kind of a moot point when you consider what the stated intent of the second amendment is.
So, under the USC cite, the "militia" is defined as the organized militia (National Guard & Naval Militia) and the unorganized militia (all other members of the militia, i.e. army, marines, air force). Non-military citizens are not members of the militia.
You cannot look at a statute or a constitutional provision on a stand alone basis. That's like saying don't look at all the provisions or qualifications in a rule. You must consider it as a whole.
I don't know about all this but, I love my Glock!
The comma is really in there. That's why it's ill-drafted.
That's just the writing style of the time. Those people loved commas! They also used the letter "f" instead of "s" but we overlook that.
re-read subsection a, dal:
The militia of the United States consists
of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age
and, except as provided in section 313 of title
32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have
made a declaration of intention to become, citi-
zens of the United States and of female citizens
of the United States who are commissioned of-
ficers of the National Guard.
all. not just those in the military.
Does that mean I'm a member of the militia? I never knew!
That's just the writing style of the time.
And times were totally diffent back then.
The "Milita" was made up of average Joe's, not military men.
according to federal law, it still is! though, i'm not sure i'd take just any joe into the militia. i will, however, take this palinajoe.
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
However, it seems from the wording that the purpose of allowing people to keep and bear Arms is to ensure a
                             well-regulated Militia, not to let some redneck drive around with a gun rack in the back of his pickup truck. What's that
                             got to do with a well-regulated militia?
I believe that this is actually two statements Dal. The first part regarding a well regulated militia and the second part the right of the people. I believe that the founders were trying to protect us from becoming a police state.
Now I may not like leroy the redneck anymore than you but in order to protect my rights I must respect his as well.
lance, dal already mentioned that, and i'm inclined to agree with her.
and scribe, that's exactly what the second amendment was for!
10th man *STILL*hunts with suction cups and a wet tongue . . . .
 Â
< knock knock >
 Â
< THWACK >
 Â
< "ouch." >
What was that sound again?
<THWACK>
Artemis and I do not own a gun.
Can some one convince us????
Why we should or shouldnt have one or 20??
Can some one convince us????
Do you want to be convinced, or are you searching for the rationale behind those that do own?
http://www.americanlibertyfoundation.org/second.htm
Marley King, you ever go shooting?
Could I take you to the range sometime?
Check out these three anti-gun-control ads:
Interesting.
Don't know how I feel about the ads. Don't feel like watching them right now but from the looks of it, it appears emotion is their persuasion tool.
It's more like turning the tables on the argument...pointing out that guns can be desirable for safety.
Yeah, they're using emotional feeling of safety of owning a gun, to counter the emotional feeling of how unsafe owning a gun can be.
Like I said, I didn't watch the ads yet so I could be wrong. It's just what I get from reading the web site.
THX- sure, I work with an old Wise Man who owns a gun shop in Anoka, he always wants me to come out and go to the range or go hunting with him, but I've never gone. Looks like I might have to go soon!
I've never shot a real gun, but would rather start out in a range then in the woods.
Marley
After market trigger can cause discharge
If this part is installed in your gun, it can discharge if the gun is dropped or jarred. Obviously this will lead to an unintentional discharge and may cause serious bodily injury to yourself or another.
I work with an old Wise Man who owns a gun shop in Anoka
What shop?.....If you don't mind me asking.
We'll set something up, I'd love to take you.
btw: I don't hunt but love to shoot at the range. I've been thinking of getting a skeet gun for shooting clay.
I believe its called sams not sure I will check on tuesday.
Artemis,I had never shot a gun until THX took me to the range.All the guys there just think it's pretty cool a woman shows up.:)
I have to say that the minute a loaded gun is put into your hands there is a blast of emotions.....fear,power.....more fear!
It took me a whole session at the range just to get a whole ten round clip off.I kept limp wristing and the bullet would jam in the chamber.THX tried to teach me several techniques that he hoped would able me to not limp wrist from the recoil of the blast.Finally I just pretended to be Sabrina on Charlies Angels and said "freeze!" and ten shots went off into the range......ah well whatever works......only two out of ten hit anything on the target........now I have to work on aim!
I will say that I am glad that I know how to clean,load and shoot our gun since we have it in the house.I would have no problem if my family was in danger to use it.
HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J.T., THANK YOU for setting this up! And especially for leaving the "alternative" message on the Jesse Ventura board at the new PP venue. I didn't know where to find you guys! Sure, I've got friends at a few Yahoo clubs, but the Cooler Crew are my Homies.
You're welcome Muskwa, glad to see you here.
Cool! I'm a homie!:)
Hey Scribe, good to see you!
Group hug! Now to get the rest of the group!LOL!
Dennis tell us a gun story!
First, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to provide a "well-regulated" militia, which is by definition, not some loner with a gun rack in his truck.
Second, the restriction against infringing the right to bear arms only applies to the federal government, according to the Supremes. States can constitutionally limit the right. When the 2nd Amendment was enacted, the US did not have a standing, federal militia. States were nervous that if we did, it would overpower the states' militias. The amendment ecnompasses both the distrust of standing armies and the goal of protecting state militias from federal encroachment. Of course, history has changed much of this rationale.
Third, the Supremes have sindicated that, considering the purpose of the amendment, it protects only the right to bear arms commonly used in militia-related activies (i.e., war). Thus, you have the right to a sword, but not a shotgun. (I personally find this point ludicrous, but I'm throwin it out there!)
and not only that, dal, but a fully-automatic assault rifle :) now, where's my m-16?
here's the key to what a militia is. you're exactly right. when the amendment was made, a large, standing professional military force was unacceptable. when it comes to the armed forces, you have 2 general classes, the regular, professional military (army, navy, air force, marines, and occasionally the coast guard), and the militia, which is further subdivided into the organised and the unorganised (which is where me, and most of the other guys reading this fall). the unorganised militia is exactly that. a collection of joe rednecks (and a bunch of john q. public's who aren't rednecks) with a gunrack in the back of their pickup truck cabs. unorganised does not necessarily imply not well regulated, as i've got to believe that the ucmj would apply to any unorganised militia member while in performing the actual service and duties of said militia.
while i love the second amendment, and support concealed carry the thing i worry about is that people will go get their licenses to carry concealed, get in a situation where they have to pull that gun, and be afraid to pull the trigger, and let the perpetrator turn that gun on them. could i do that? i dunno. i'd rather not find out either.
the thing i worry about is that people will go get their licenses to carry concealed, get in a situation where they have to pull that gun, and be afraid to pull the trigger, and let the perpetrator turn that gun on them.
So, you're in favor of a constitutional amendment prohibiting cowardice? :)
So, you're in favor of a constitutional amendment prohibiting cowardice?
While we're at it, can we get one against stupidity? That should take care of a lot of frivolous lawsuits and warning labels on products (Hair Dryer: Do not use while in shower)
So, youre in favor of a constitutional amendment prohibiting cowardice? :)
now that you mention it, that's not a bad idea :) except that i'm one of the biggest wusses you'll find!