The first Volkswagen Beetle in the U.S. arrived from Germany. The little Volkswagen ("people’s car") was a sturdy vehicle designed by Ferdinand Porsche at the request of Adolf Hitler. The car was meant to be a durable workhorse car for the common German. After the defeat of the Nazi government in Germany, the VW Beetle remained a popular car, and its reputation for affordable reliability made it a profitable export.
This is a rather humorous coincidence. I posted this because of the VW's intro to this country. I never knew that Hitler requested this car...not until I read it five minutes ago.
a real nazi grandpa certainly must be something to be proud of....not.
I wouldn't know seeing as how my grandpa wasn't a Nazi. And even if Grandpa Willem was a real person, he's still be my grandpa regardless of how he led his life, and I would feel no shame.
Which brings up a good point, we can't choose our relatives and we certainly cannot change the past. Nor can we frown on anyone because of what their ancestors did. One of the fascinating things about the people in this country is their lineage. We all can't be related to George Washington or Ben Franklin, some of us are related to 'nobodies', some of us are related to the 'bad guys'. You just never know who might turn up in your family tree.
I've researched some of my background, and because of my love for history I am less inclined to be bothered or upset by what I might find. It's more likely I would be excited to track down information on my past.
well, Volkswagen = peoples car. actually similar to the Volksempfänger which was the planned spread of mass media to better spread ideology.
Thanks for the info, it's the first I've heard about this device.
well, interesting -I was gonna mention that a person this week asked the ramsey county history center about their 2 female relatives that married prominent characters in MN history (this person was from out of state and couldn't come to the history center to research the people herself and thought we could help) BOY COUKD I HELP-and I got to tell them about the men-it was exciting. It turns out one of the men is Goodhue - the first editor of the PIONEER PRESS! and the other was a judge.
I personally found my long lost aunt in August which many of you already know. (my dads sister-he hadn't seen his sisters since the mid 60's) she sent me lots of lineage and we are related to a couple of men that faught in the Civil War and another was a judge in the south.
Has anyone here researched their family history? If so, are you willing to share what you discovered?
Funny how you actually use Ben Franklin in your example as that's who's in my lineage. Well at least according to Ancestry.com anyway. I also had a great great great something or other that invented the cracker oven for the National Biscuit Company (Nabisco). Weird. I never knew that Nabisco stood for anything. Being of Dutch heritage, I wonder if it was a Dutch oven?
And I'm with you on the can't pick your ancestors since my unborn relatives aren't gonna appreciate having me as one of theirs at all. ;-)
My Grandfather worked for Hormel and invented the triangle shaped ham can with the key thing to open it. Hormel promptly ripped it off from him with no credit. My other Grand father invented match light charcoal and had the patent on it 'till about the early 70's. He never marketed it and the patent ran out. Thats why it "suddenly" appeared in the 70's. Also this same Grandfather was asked to go into a 50/50 buisiness with this guy and said He didn't think he would make any money. Turns out that guy was William McKnight from 3M. I guess grandpa wasn't too buisness savy.
Has anyone here researched their family history? If so, are you willing to share what you discovered?
I got home from a party last night sometime after 5am, but I wasn't that tired and you guys got me curious so I ended up doing some research and found out the Allisons actually came to America from Scotland in the 1750's. I never knew I was of Scottish decent or that my family had been around the US for so long. I even discovered we have a tartan!
someone in our family actually wrote a book about our family, they came from petrona in southern italy.The first one to move here to st paul lived on collins street above a grocery store, (which is now railroad island), and then later down into "Swede Hollow"
Some years back, someone in my Dad's family did a family tree sort of thing. Recently there is someone working on updating that family tree and history - mostly to include the female sides. When it was done originally, mostly only the men were followed through the tree.
Not much in the way of interesting history though.
Now my Grandfather on my Mom's side has a bit more history. We know the last name was changed when the ancestors came through Ellis Island. Some great, great grandfather changed it a bit to differentiate all the Swedes with the same last name.
One of my great, great grandfather's was scalped during the Sioux Uprising. His wife - my great, great grandmother took her children and hid in a hay loft until the danger passed. (I actually think it was 5 greats but I don't remember anymore.)
I found some history in St Paul that was to list all the residents in St Paul during approx 1850---- the list contained pages and pages---ALL MEN! wonders if St Paul back then was more like current San Francisco ;0
On January 18, 1778, the English explorer Captain James Cook becomes the first European to site the Hawaiian Islands when he sails past the island of Oahu. Two days later, he landed at Waimea on the island of Kauai and named the island group the Sandwich Islands, in honor of John Montague, who was the earl of Sandwich and one his patrons.
Wow, thanks you guys for sharing some of your family info, some neat stuff was learned. I think it's really awesome to be able to trace your family back through time.
Me2, I've done major research on Saint Paul, I find it fascinating. There is so much history here, and just looking at all the old photos of the city is pretty amazing. I only wish that they had left the buildings and homes in place, it sickens me that they knocked so many down.
If you ever get a chance to look thru the thousands of photos, do so.
someone in our family actually wrote a book about our family, they came from petrona in southern italy.The first one to move here to st paul lived on collins street above a grocery store, (which is now railroad island), and then later down into "Swede Hollow"
Swede Hollow is such an interesting place to read about, it's incredible the way those folks lived. When you look at that area today, and walk thru it, it's so hard to picture the way it was.
I don't know when your relatives lived there, but attached is a pic of one of the grocery stores on Collins, 1933.
I've always found this picture to be an interesting picture in contrast.
This is Swede Hollow circa 1900, where everyone was poor and struggled to survive. Yet their view was of the Theodore Hamm mansion (upper right corner). And Theodore Hamm's view was of the poor in Swede Hollow.
Ironically, Hamm's home caught fire in 1954, two years before they burned down Swede Hollow. The site of his home still remains empty, except for a few markers from the home, and the driveway. You can walk thru the site and look over into Swede Hollow - it's a neat piece of history. Still standing across the street is the former home of William Hamm, this residence is still beautiful even though it was built over 100 years ago.
THX 1138, I have been a medallion hunter in the past. I was led to this site by an acquaintance, and by reading the discussion boards on the TwinCities.com site.
wow tess, Thanks for that pic! I will have to show it to my grandma, she would really love it! if I gave you some other addresses do you think you could find pics of those?
And even if Grandpa Willem was a real person, he's still be my grandpa regardless of how he led his life, and I would feel no shame.
You wouldn’t? Quite a few people feel differently. Usually people who in fact DO have parents who were Nazis or didn’t fight the Nazis. Interesting read that’s available in English would be: Gitta Sereny: “The German Trauma. Experiences and Reflections 1938-2001”; Allen Lane/The Penguin Press, London. She interviewed many people, talks about them in her book. Among them children of important Nazis(and some important Nazis themselves, too. Like Speer(about whom she has written a separate book, too). Children want to respect, adore and love their parents and grandparents. To learn that they supported-actively or passively- anything like the 3rd Reich, seriously troubles a person. Usually, Id think. Blood is thicker than water after all....
Which brings up a good point, we can't choose our relatives and we certainly cannot change the past.
Of course noone can chose who their ancestors were/are. But deal with it, everyone has to. Or has the choice to.
Nor can we frown on anyone because of what their ancestors did.
Who says that should be done? The topic still is there, for the person with family history XYZ to deal with. And someone will be there and frown, too. No matter if the person on the receiving end did anything, could or couldn’t have done anything.
You just never know who might turn up in your family tree.
And Im not even interested in my family tree. Ive seen one from my grandfather on my fathers sides family. Went back to 16something. Big deal;-) never gonna meet those people anyways and no contact to that grandfather either.
I've researched some of my background, and because of my love for history I am less inclined to be bothered or upset by what I might find. It's more likely I would be excited to track down information on my past.
If there is something to be bothered about or not, it usually would be the closer relatives. Like father, mother, grandparents. People one knows or could’ve known.
Thanks for the info, it's the first I've heard about this device. (Volksempfänger)
de nada. Was just something that was part of Hitlers “make everyone feel things are getting better now” policy. While also helping indoctrinate the public. Tess 1/17/04 7:30pm
Has anyone here researched their family history? If so, are you willing to share what you discovered?
Not much to discover there, I guess. But if theres interest.... Both grandfathers come from southwestern Germany. One from upper Neckar/Black Forest region(Tübingen/Oberndorf), one from the Remstal/Ludwigsburg area(north of Stuttgart). Grandfather No.1 joined HJ(Hitlerjugend) like everyone else. He loved music, was a musician and got to play his instruments during HJ-exercises/marches or whatever that was. He loved it all, uniform, group activities and being someone who belonged. On the other hand, he had a hard time because his father one day went to his parents house in another town and was found therem hanging from the ceiling. He obviously couldnt deal with what this world had developed to be.... Well, being the oldest brother, my grandfather No.1 had to leave to the front. He was sent to the eastern front as some sort of telecommunications whatever. Short before reaching Stalingrad he got a “Heimatschuߔ. Means he was shot through his right elbow and could go “home”. After the war(and after moving from east to west because Russian troops were coming)he ended up in a village in Franconia where he met a woman he married(my grandma). The way I knew him, he was a musician who loved making music to which everyone could sing, dance and/or have a party. When he was not making music he tended to either be in a really good mood or rather depressive. Sitting in his corner of the room and smoking(which eventually killed him at 62). My grandmother lived in that very village her entire life. Her father after the war was the mayor there, too. Her mother was killed when an American bomb hit the train she was travelling home in, at the end of the war. This grandmother worked in a textile producing company(hard work that messed up her back). She met my grandfather already being pregnant from someone who had died. He married her, they had two more children. Both did not fight against their regime. They lived under the Nazis, they had hard lives there too and most probably weren’t very much interested in politics before it was too late already. Both said they were glad when American troops arrived and the entire horror was over(thought police; war; etc.). On my fathers side, grandfather No. 2 was an electrician and specialized in navigation tech for marine vessels. He joined the german Navy and spent most of the time in the war either in training or on the Tirpitz. One of the two biggest “boats” the germans had at the time. However, the Tirpitz was pretty much a ruin most of the time he served on it, could only maneuver backwards after they got hit by some torpedo and they then stayed in a norwegian port and just tried to hit planes trying to bomb them. In the end, the Tirpitz sunk when eventually hit. My grandpa No. 2s brother was killed in a submarine hit by a torpedo in the atlantic not far from western France, La Rochelle.
My grandmother No. 2 comes from “East Frisia” in Northwestern Germany, not far from Netherlands. She grew up with her mother, her father was a fisherman and usually out in the northern atlantic. She married my grandfather sometime during the war/nazi era(she showed me all the papers they had to bring authorities to prove they were both “Aryan” and what have you). My father was born shortly after the war.
These two didn’t fight the regime either, as far as is known. As theres no contact between them and my family, Im not likely to find out more about how they experienced that time of their lives to have been.
They all lived in Nazi Germany and aren’t known to have been fighting the system. Even though some of them might have wanted to. Knowing what happened back then means knowing that going against it all would have been hard and risky, but that it was done by people- other than these close relatives. What Id done had I been in their shoes....I don’t know. And it means knowing what was done in their name to millions of others who were mistreated, robbed of freedom, dignity and literally everything.
To look up to grandparents who were part of that, no matter that you love them in a way, is not exactly easy, sometimes not possible at all. Doubts about what they might have been then, what their thoughts could have been back then etc. sometimes arise, too.
And the past they were a part of always is somewhere, haunting children and childrens children too. Not that it shouldn’t. But to be called Nazi and greeted with a Hitler salute when barely 7 years old on a vacation in Spain when you don’t even know what that all was about(and then being told) tends to not be so wonderful.
The past is always there. For those whose ancestors were the victims, and also for those whose ancestors were the perpetrators. In different ways but for both hard to deal with, Id think. So who ancestors were and what they did, does have consequences for the individual(as long as it cares).
Todays Germany also has quite a few features that developed from Nazi-Era/WW2-scars. Some of them not being “logical” conclusions of the lesson that could have been learnt(like saying “no war” instead of “fight dictators everywhere”). This might “soon” be changing, with increasing distance in time to the era in question. And then, maybe a more mature way of dealing with the past may be possible(dealing with anti-Semitism; dealing with military engagement...etc).
Oh, btw, some relatives of ancestors of mine emigrated to the US too. Said that family tree I once looked at.
Kath, that's impressive how much you know about your family, consider yourself fortunate, even if it doesn't interest you.
One additional comment on 'Grandpa Willem'. First of all, I think you and I are looking at this from two perspectives. However, I am more than sure that if I had a relative who worked with Hitler that I would be disturbed. Most of us would be. But I would feel no shame, simply because I couldn't control what he did. And because it is part of history and we have to take what we get, I would not feel shame in letting people know about him. Whatever facts turn up are whatever facts I would accept and share - it's history and I respect that.
wow tess, Thanks for that pic! I will have to show it to my grandma, she would really love it! if I gave you some other addresses do you think you could find pics of those?
Liquor Lady, I do have several other photos of Collins Street but I'm not sure what your grandma would recognize. I'll post them in a bit.
Let me know the other addresses, and I'll see what I can find.
One of the pics is of the Crispus Attucks house, which at one time was a home for the elderly. One is of the school, circa 1900, and one of the businesses in 1962.
This is one of those situations where the street no longer exists, it is now Tedesco. Makes no sense, if you ask me.
A mere three weeks after California passed a law against cyberstalking, Gary Dellapenta is charged with using the Internet to solicit the rape of a woman who had rejected his advances. Dellapenta terrorized a North Hollywood woman by placing ads in her name that claimed she had rape fantasies and provided her address and instructions for disarming her security system. At least six men saw the Internet ads and came to the woman's home. Many more called with obscene messages.
Thanks tess, I'm sure she will recognize them :) The other addresses are 566 Decatur and 744 clark st. I tried to find some pics on the net but no luck here, I do know that the house on clark st is still standing today. (according to the book anyway)
Hi Liquor Lady, I'm looking into those two addresses for you.
Question...what book are you referring to in regards to Clark Street?
I researched that street/address and found that what was once residential is now industrial. There no longer are homes on Clark Street before address 725, and the residence at 725 was built in 1998.
It's called A Caliguire family sampler, It's the one my grandma and aunts wrote for the family. sorry, I just looked back and it was 744 clark, My fault :)
On January 20, 1961, on the newly renovated east front of the United States Capitol, John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th president of the United States. It was a cold and clear day, and the nation's capital was covered with a snowfall from the previous night. The ceremony began with a religious invocation and prayers, and then African-American opera singer Marian Anderson sang "The Star-Spangled Banner," and Robert Frost recited his poem "The Gift Outright." Kennedy was administered the oath of office by Chief Justice Earl Warren. During his famous inauguration address, Kennedy, the youngest candidate ever elected to the presidency and the country's first Catholic president, declared that "the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans" and appealed to Americans to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
Minutes after Ronald Reagan's inauguration as the 40th president of the United States, the 52 U.S. captives held at the U.S. embassy in Teheran, Iran, are released, ending the 444-day Iran Hostage Crisis.
Yasser Arafat is elected president of the Palestinian National Council with 88.1 percent of the popular vote, becoming the first democratically elected leader of the Palestinian people in history.
Wasn't that what the Iran arms for hostages scandal was about? Or was it different hostages? My impression was that some sort of deal had been made whereby the hostages were to be released when Reagan was inaugurated so as to enhance his hero status and make Carter look bad.
January 17, 1949
The first Volkswagen Beetle in the U.S. arrived from Germany. The little Volkswagen ("people’s car") was a sturdy vehicle designed by Ferdinand Porsche at the request of Adolf Hitler. The car was meant to be a durable workhorse car for the common German. After the defeat of the Nazi government in Germany, the VW Beetle remained a popular car, and its reputation for affordable reliability made it a profitable export.
This is a rather humorous coincidence. I posted this because of the VW's intro to this country. I never knew that Hitler requested this car...not until I read it five minutes ago.
Of course he is. You should see the shrine I have in my basement, complete with autographed picture of my grandpa sharing a smoke with him.
Now that's some bold humor.
Tess 1/17/04 9:08am
well, Volkswagen = peoples car. actually similar to the Volksempfänger which was the planned spread of mass media to better spread ideology.
every family was supposed to be able to get one and thus get nazi ideology spoonfed right in their livingrooms.
http://home.t-online.de/home/tuberadio/ve.htm#VE%20301%20bild
pretty primitive, cheap and did the trick, too. was a huge success, apparently.
Tess 1/17/04 8:30am
a real nazi grandpa certainly must be something to be proud of....not.
a real nazi grandpa certainly must be something to be proud of....not.
I wouldn't know seeing as how my grandpa wasn't a Nazi. And even if Grandpa Willem was a real person, he's still be my grandpa regardless of how he led his life, and I would feel no shame.
Which brings up a good point, we can't choose our relatives and we certainly cannot change the past. Nor can we frown on anyone because of what their ancestors did. One of the fascinating things about the people in this country is their lineage. We all can't be related to George Washington or Ben Franklin, some of us are related to 'nobodies', some of us are related to the 'bad guys'. You just never know who might turn up in your family tree.
I've researched some of my background, and because of my love for history I am less inclined to be bothered or upset by what I might find. It's more likely I would be excited to track down information on my past.
well, Volkswagen = peoples car. actually similar to the Volksempfänger which was the planned spread of mass media to better spread ideology.
Thanks for the info, it's the first I've heard about this device.
My last post raises an interesting question.
Has anyone here researched their family history? If so, are you willing to share what you discovered?
well, interesting -I was gonna mention that a person this week asked the ramsey county history center about their 2 female relatives that married prominent characters in MN history (this person was from out of state and couldn't come to the history center to research the people herself and thought we could help) BOY COUKD I HELP-and I got to tell them about the men-it was exciting. It turns out one of the men is Goodhue - the first editor of the PIONEER PRESS! and the other was a judge.
I personally found my long lost aunt in August which many of you already know. (my dads sister-he hadn't seen his sisters since the mid 60's) she sent me lots of lineage and we are related to a couple of men that faught in the Civil War and another was a judge in the south.
me2 "Me2's Trading Post" 8/22/03 5:58am
me2 "Me2's Trading Post" 8/24/03 11:30am
she sent me the only picture she had of my dad -he was 12 and wearing a suit.
The oldest picture we had of my dad was when he got married at age 27.
so there are no known photos of him from 12 - 27
but it was cool seeing him as a child -we have the same eyes :)
Has anyone here researched their family history? If so, are you willing to share what you discovered?
Funny how you actually use Ben Franklin in your example as that's who's in my lineage. Well at least according to Ancestry.com anyway. I also had a great great great something or other that invented the cracker oven for the National Biscuit Company (Nabisco). Weird. I never knew that Nabisco stood for anything. Being of Dutch heritage, I wonder if it was a Dutch oven?
And I'm with you on the can't pick your ancestors since my unborn relatives aren't gonna appreciate having me as one of theirs at all. ;-)
My Grandfather worked for Hormel and invented the triangle shaped ham can with the key thing to open it. Hormel promptly ripped it off from him with no credit. My other Grand father invented match light charcoal and had the patent on it 'till about the early 70's. He never marketed it and the patent ran out. Thats why it "suddenly" appeared in the 70's. Also this same Grandfather was asked to go into a 50/50 buisiness with this guy and said He didn't think he would make any money. Turns out that guy was William McKnight from 3M. I guess grandpa wasn't too buisness savy.
I am soooo sorry to hear that 3M story
the company coulda turned out with a different name - like ...MrMnMikey - "3M's"
my great grandpa invented a type of sewing needle and sold it to Singer way back in the depression time for $100 bucks.
That woulda been cooler!
Has anyone here researched their family history? If so, are you willing to share what you discovered?
I got home from a party last night sometime after 5am, but I wasn't that tired and you guys got me curious so I ended up doing some research and found out the Allisons actually came to America from Scotland in the 1750's. I never knew I was of Scottish decent or that my family had been around the US for so long. I even discovered we have a tartan!
David shows up at the pre-dig in a kilt ;)
When I was a teenager I learned to Scottish dance -the fling and the sword dance :) wasnt that good but it was fun.
competed a couple times.
2...3....4 JOE in a line!
someone in our family actually wrote a book about our family, they came from petrona in southern italy.The first one to move here to st paul lived on collins street above a grocery store, (which is now railroad island), and then later down into "Swede Hollow"
Italian huh? nice!
Some years back, someone in my Dad's family did a family tree sort of thing. Recently there is someone working on updating that family tree and history - mostly to include the female sides. When it was done originally, mostly only the men were followed through the tree.
Not much in the way of interesting history though.
Now my Grandfather on my Mom's side has a bit more history. We know the last name was changed when the ancestors came through Ellis Island. Some great, great grandfather changed it a bit to differentiate all the Swedes with the same last name.
One of my great, great grandfather's was scalped during the Sioux Uprising. His wife - my great, great grandmother took her children and hid in a hay loft until the danger passed. (I actually think it was 5 greats but I don't remember anymore.)
wow- 1862 COOL
I found some history in St Paul that was to list all the residents in St Paul during approx 1850---- the list contained pages and pages---ALL MEN!
wonders if St Paul back then was more like current San Francisco ;0
I'm 1/2 Swede, almost 1/2 Irish, and a "we bit" scottish.
I'm a drunken lover with a kink!
but not that kinky as above!
On January 18, 1778, the English explorer Captain James Cook becomes the first European to site the Hawaiian Islands when he sails past the island of Oahu. Two days later, he landed at Waimea on the island of Kauai and named the island group the Sandwich Islands, in honor of John Montague, who was the earl of Sandwich and one his patrons.
Wow, thanks you guys for sharing some of your family info, some neat stuff was learned. I think it's really awesome to be able to trace your family back through time.
Me2, I've done major research on Saint Paul, I find it fascinating. There is so much history here, and just looking at all the old photos of the city is pretty amazing. I only wish that they had left the buildings and homes in place, it sickens me that they knocked so many down.
If you ever get a chance to look thru the thousands of photos, do so.
someone in our family actually wrote a book about our family, they came from petrona in southern italy.The first one to move here to st paul lived on collins street above a grocery store, (which is now railroad island), and then later down into "Swede Hollow"
Swede Hollow is such an interesting place to read about, it's incredible the way those folks lived. When you look at that area today, and walk thru it, it's so hard to picture the way it was.
I don't know when your relatives lived there, but attached is a pic of one of the grocery stores on Collins, 1933.
Tess, how'd you find your way here? Are you a medallion hunter?
Don't mean to pry. Just curious. It's mostly medallion hunters that show up here.
I've always found this picture to be an interesting picture in contrast.
This is Swede Hollow circa 1900, where everyone was poor and struggled to survive. Yet their view was of the Theodore Hamm mansion (upper right corner). And Theodore Hamm's view was of the poor in Swede Hollow.
Ironically, Hamm's home caught fire in 1954, two years before they burned down Swede Hollow. The site of his home still remains empty, except for a few markers from the home, and the driveway. You can walk thru the site and look over into Swede Hollow - it's a neat piece of history. Still standing across the street is the former home of William Hamm, this residence is still beautiful even though it was built over 100 years ago.
THX 1138, I have been a medallion hunter in the past. I was led to this site by an acquaintance, and by reading the discussion boards on the TwinCities.com site.
Does that answer your question?
Does that answer your question?
Just one more. Would any of us know you from the old PPWC?
Cool pick btw.
One last thing.
With zebras, how can you tell which is white stiped, and which is black?
Just one more. Would any of us know you from the old PPWC?
What is the PPWC?
With zebras, how can you tell which is white stiped, and which is black?
Therein lies the challenge.
What is the PPWC?
Pioneer Press Water Cooler.
The old PPWC used to use this discussion format. That's how we all met. We'd still be there if they hadn't switched the format.
Therein lies the challenge.
I hope it's not that difficult for a zebra.
wow tess, Thanks for that pic! I will have to show it to my grandma, she would really love it! if I gave you some other addresses do you think you could find pics of those?
Tess 1/17/04 7:12pm
You wouldn’t?
Quite a few people feel differently. Usually people who in fact DO have parents who were Nazis or didn’t fight the Nazis. Interesting read that’s available in English would be: Gitta Sereny: “The German Trauma. Experiences and Reflections 1938-2001”; Allen Lane/The Penguin Press, London. She interviewed many people, talks about them in her book. Among them children of important Nazis(and some important Nazis themselves, too. Like Speer(about whom she has written a separate book, too).
Children want to respect, adore and love their parents and grandparents. To learn that they supported-actively or passively- anything like the 3rd Reich, seriously troubles a person. Usually, Id think.
Blood is thicker than water after all....
Of course noone can chose who their ancestors were/are. But deal with it, everyone has to. Or has the choice to.
Who says that should be done? The topic still is there, for the person with family history XYZ to deal with. And someone will be there and frown, too. No matter if the person on the receiving end did anything, could or couldn’t have done anything.
And Im not even interested in my family tree. Ive seen one from my grandfather on my fathers sides family. Went back to 16something. Big deal;-) never gonna meet those people anyways and no contact to that grandfather either.
If there is something to be bothered about or not, it usually would be the closer relatives. Like father, mother, grandparents. People one knows or could’ve known.
de nada. Was just something that was part of Hitlers “make everyone feel things are getting better now” policy. While also helping indoctrinate the public.
Tess 1/17/04 7:30pm
Not much to discover there, I guess. But if theres interest....
Both grandfathers come from southwestern Germany. One from upper Neckar/Black Forest region(Tübingen/Oberndorf), one from the Remstal/Ludwigsburg area(north of Stuttgart).
Grandfather No.1 joined HJ(Hitlerjugend) like everyone else. He loved music, was a musician and got to play his instruments during HJ-exercises/marches or whatever that was. He loved it all, uniform, group activities and being someone who belonged. On the other hand, he had a hard time because his father one day went to his parents house in another town and was found therem hanging from the ceiling. He obviously couldnt deal with what this world had developed to be....
Well, being the oldest brother, my grandfather No.1 had to leave to the front. He was sent to the eastern front as some sort of telecommunications whatever. Short before reaching Stalingrad he got a “Heimatschuߔ. Means he was shot through his right elbow and could go “home”. After the war(and after moving from east to west because Russian troops were coming)he ended up in a village in Franconia where he met a woman he married(my grandma). The way I knew him, he was a musician who loved making music to which everyone could sing, dance and/or have a party. When he was not making music he tended to either be in a really good mood or rather depressive. Sitting in his corner of the room and smoking(which eventually killed him at 62).
My grandmother lived in that very village her entire life. Her father after the war was the mayor there, too. Her mother was killed when an American bomb hit the train she was travelling home in, at the end of the war. This grandmother worked in a textile producing company(hard work that messed up her back). She met my grandfather already being pregnant from someone who had died. He married her, they had two more children.
Both did not fight against their regime. They lived under the Nazis, they had hard lives there too and most probably weren’t very much interested in politics before it was too late already. Both said they were glad when American troops arrived and the entire horror was over(thought police; war; etc.).
On my fathers side, grandfather No. 2 was an electrician and specialized in navigation tech for marine vessels. He joined the german Navy and spent most of the time in the war either in training or on the Tirpitz. One of the two biggest “boats” the germans had at the time. However, the Tirpitz was pretty much a ruin most of the time he served on it, could only maneuver backwards after they got hit by some torpedo and they then stayed in a norwegian port and just tried to hit planes trying to bomb them. In the end, the Tirpitz sunk when eventually hit.
My grandpa No. 2s brother was killed in a submarine hit by a torpedo in the atlantic not far from western France, La Rochelle.
My grandmother No. 2 comes from “East Frisia” in Northwestern Germany, not far from Netherlands. She grew up with her mother, her father was a fisherman and usually out in the northern atlantic. She married my grandfather sometime during the war/nazi era(she showed me all the papers they had to bring authorities to prove they were both “Aryan” and what have you). My father was born shortly after the war.
These two didn’t fight the regime either, as far as is known. As theres no contact between them and my family, Im not likely to find out more about how they experienced that time of their lives to have been.
They all lived in Nazi Germany and aren’t known to have been fighting the system. Even though some of them might have wanted to. Knowing what happened back then means knowing that going against it all would have been hard and risky, but that it was done by people- other than these close relatives. What Id done had I been in their shoes....I don’t know. And it means knowing what was done in their name to millions of others who were mistreated, robbed of freedom, dignity and literally everything.
To look up to grandparents who were part of that, no matter that you love them in a way, is not exactly easy, sometimes not possible at all. Doubts about what they might have been then, what their thoughts could have been back then etc. sometimes arise, too.
And the past they were a part of always is somewhere, haunting children and childrens children too. Not that it shouldn’t. But to be called Nazi and greeted with a Hitler salute when barely 7 years old on a vacation in Spain when you don’t even know what that all was about(and then being told) tends to not be so wonderful.
The past is always there. For those whose ancestors were the victims, and also for those whose ancestors were the perpetrators. In different ways but for both hard to deal with, Id think.
So who ancestors were and what they did, does have consequences for the individual(as long as it cares).
Todays Germany also has quite a few features that developed from Nazi-Era/WW2-scars. Some of them not being “logical” conclusions of the lesson that could have been learnt(like saying “no war” instead of “fight dictators everywhere”). This might “soon” be changing, with increasing distance in time to the era in question. And then, maybe a more mature way of dealing with the past may be possible(dealing with anti-Semitism; dealing with military engagement...etc).
Oh, btw, some relatives of ancestors of mine emigrated to the US too. Said that family tree I once looked at.
Kath, that's impressive how much you know about your family, consider yourself fortunate, even if it doesn't interest you.
One additional comment on 'Grandpa Willem'. First of all, I think you and I are looking at this from two perspectives. However, I am more than sure that if I had a relative who worked with Hitler that I would be disturbed. Most of us would be. But I would feel no shame, simply because I couldn't control what he did. And because it is part of history and we have to take what we get, I would not feel shame in letting people know about him. Whatever facts turn up are whatever facts I would accept and share - it's history and I respect that.
wow tess, Thanks for that pic! I will have to show it to my grandma, she would really love it! if I gave you some other addresses do you think you could find pics of those?
Liquor Lady, I do have several other photos of Collins Street but I'm not sure what your grandma would recognize. I'll post them in a bit.
Let me know the other addresses, and I'll see what I can find.
Tess 1/19/04 7:31am
probably its a language issue.
anyhow. its not a problem to have others know about what some ancestor did or didnt do.
the hard thing is knowing it and dealing with it oneself(when its relatives one knows).
Liquor Lady, I am posting three more pics.
One of the pics is of the Crispus Attucks house, which at one time was a home for the elderly. One is of the school, circa 1900, and one of the businesses in 1962.
This is one of those situations where the street no longer exists, it is now Tedesco. Makes no sense, if you ask me.
1999 Man Charged in California Cyberstalking Case
A mere three weeks after California passed a law against cyberstalking, Gary Dellapenta is charged with using the Internet to solicit the rape of a woman who had rejected his advances. Dellapenta terrorized a North Hollywood woman by placing ads in her name that claimed she had rape fantasies and provided her address and instructions for disarming her security system. At least six men saw the Internet ads and came to the woman's home. Many more called with obscene messages.
Thanks tess, I'm sure she will recognize them :)
The other addresses are 566 Decatur and 744 clark st.
I tried to find some pics on the net but no luck here, I do know that the house on clark st is still standing today. (according to the book anyway)
Hi Liquor Lady, I'm looking into those two addresses for you.
Question...what book are you referring to in regards to Clark Street?
I researched that street/address and found that what was once residential is now industrial. There no longer are homes on Clark Street before address 725, and the residence at 725 was built in 1998.
It's called A Caliguire family sampler, It's the one my grandma and aunts wrote for the family. sorry, I just looked back and it was 744 clark, My fault :)
Crispus Attucks house
funny I just put a MN history magazine on EBay with information on that place.
An Orphan’s Tale –More information on “Crispus Attucks’ “ was located in St Paul, MN – Colored Orphanage and Old Folks Home
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3581473906&category=41895&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1
JOHN F. KENNEDY INAUGURATED:
On January 20, 1961, on the newly renovated east front of the United States Capitol, John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th president of the United States. It was a cold and clear day, and the nation's capital was covered with a snowfall from the previous night. The ceremony began with a religious invocation and prayers, and then African-American opera singer Marian Anderson sang "The Star-Spangled Banner," and Robert Frost recited his poem "The Gift Outright." Kennedy was administered the oath of office by Chief Justice Earl Warren. During his famous inauguration address, Kennedy, the youngest candidate ever elected to the presidency and the country's first Catholic president, declared that "the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans" and appealed to Americans to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
January 20, 1981
Ronald Reagan Inaugurated
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem.
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres61.html
Minutes after Ronald Reagan's inauguration as the 40th president of the United States, the 52 U.S. captives held at the U.S. embassy in Teheran, Iran, are released, ending the 444-day Iran Hostage Crisis.
As if one had anything to do with the other.
On January 20, 1945, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the only president to be elected to three terms in office, is inaugurated to his fourth term.
Yasser Arafat is elected president of the Palestinian National Council with 88.1 percent of the popular vote, becoming the first democratically elected leader of the Palestinian people in history.
Iran may have had concerns that Reagan would play cowboy and ride into Tehran.
As if one had anything to do with the other.
Wasn't that what the Iran arms for hostages scandal was about? Or was it different hostages? My impression was that some sort of deal had been made whereby the hostages were to be released when Reagan was inaugurated so as to enhance his hero status and make Carter look bad.