This is actually a part of my honor's project, so if you could be so kind as to include in your discussion these things:
Did you gow up in Saint Paul?
If so, what neighborhood are you from?
Are you a "transplant" to Saint Paul?
If, so from where, and what brought you here?
Are you from "across the river"?
How did you get involved in the Carnival?
Please describe how you think the Carnival reflects the Saint Paul culture.
How much do you know about the legend of the Carnival and the history of Saint Paul through the Carnival?
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were you cold in Saint Paul or didja get locked in a meat locker?
I was giving you a short answer because I knew you'd bite. :wink:
I have a few that I'll need to work on. I'm sure most of us do. Good idea for a thread.
My thesis is that the uniformed groups only serve as a framework for the Carnival (instead of being the main focus of the event as is reflected in most histories pertaining to the Winter Carnival)
I argue that it is the "other" groups and participants within the Carnival that reflect the culture of Saint Paul through the event's history.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
You got a problem with that?
sure dont' visit all year...then show up....and give us your homework....
heh....its ok
I'm shameless.
I would like to et this paper published with the MHS, so there's a good chance your stories will be archived for posterity.
what high school is that..... :grin: :pbpt: :pbpt: :pbpt: :pbpt: :pbpt: :pbpt: :goofy: :goofy: :goofy: :goofy: :goofy: :goofy: :goofy:
If so, what neighborhood are you from? East Side!!!
Are you a "transplant" to Saint Paul? Nope.
If, so from where, and what brought you here? I said no....damn...
Are you from "across the river"? Only when I go there for concerts, or bars, or sporting events....although that wouldnt make me "from there"....would it? just using their turf for fun activities?
How did you get involved in the Carnival? I was kidnapped by one of those scary sideshow freaky chicks with 3 arms, when I was a wee lil kid....
Oh wait... you mean the winter carnival?..... pffft... I cant even remember.... my mom wasnt really into all the carnival stuff, very much... but I think she's the one that got me interested... she used to take me to the parades, see the vulcans, the car races on Lake Phalen, and all the other odds and ends that show up during carnival time.... back when I was little...like I remember checkin out the Ice Palace on Harriet Island with her, back in 92...stuff like that...
Please describe how you think the Carnival reflects the Saint Paul culture.
Do I get a gold star, or a sucker or something for participating in this?
I think it just shows that rather than go inside and hide from the cold weather and snow, and crap, like people from warm/desert places like Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Iowa think we should do, we stick it to em by sayin "this is who we are, and where we live, and we're gonna have fun no matter what the weathers like"
Plus when you step back and look at it.... MPLS feels like big city, whereas sometimes even though St. Paul is actually a "big city" compared to alotta places, it feels small townish....some events like the WC help bring that out.
How much do you know about the legend of the Carnival and the history of Saint Paul through the Carnival?
Umm....I think I know a lot.... but I learn new stuff every year that I didnt know about beforehand....
I'd think that instruments would freeze up if their exposed to the elements long enough...
huh.... that sounds bad if you read it the wrong way...
tagline!
Ha Ha Ha Ha
I am from the East Side of Saint Paul and have been in to the treasure hunt since I was a kid.
I really started getting nuts about it when I met my wife in 1996 or so that's when I started getting close which added to the insanity. The last time it was hidden in Cherokee park the wife and I were scouting around and I said lets look up on that hill since one of the clues had some thing about higher ground in it, the wife says no itÂ’s got to be by the play ground so we never went to the hill. and wouldn't you know the coin was hidden on the hill. Then there was the 2002 hunt I had taken a week off of work I was going to spend all that time hunting, then I read this clue (Clue 6 Before we ever hid this jewel We devised ways to make it tough So not just any fool Can find this diamond in the rough) and I just knew it was in the out field between the two fields so I quickly drove there and spent most of the night looking till my flashlight went dead. I figured it was only the first thursday so I would come back in the morning. As I drove to the park the next morning I heard on the radio that it had been found in the very spot I had been looking all night, ahhhhhh and I had 6 days left of my vacation to do nothing but fume about the clue writer. The next year I started to hang out with the cooler crew and have not been in the right park since.
nope...GOW?? is that "gods of winter" or "grapes of wrath"?
If so, what neighborhood are you from?
I grew up outside of st. paul in the sticks.
Are you a "transplant" to Saint Paul? Yep
If, so from where, and what brought you here? A fine Institution of higher learning--or otherwise known as COW-U....or was it the beer and parties?? geez...I don't recall for sure..
Are you from "across the river"? Never...barely like do drive over it. Oh wait..I now live in SSP...damn...that sucks.
How did you get involved in the Carnival?
years ago was active in the st. paul Jaycee's...My first year I helped run a "winter-putt putt"
Please describe how you think the Carnival reflects the Saint Paul culture.
Isn't it all we have??
How much do you know about the legend of the Carnival and the history of Saint Paul through the Carnival?
I know enough to get me by...but that what google is for.
Take this oppurtunity to describe your favorite Winter Carnival memories!
I forget the year....
but...I was on a date with a girl at the touchlight parade...it was cold....she was huddling over her candle from Kare11...her hair started on fire.
I put it out by beating on it with my hands...ok "choppers"...she was ticked off at me thinking I went psycho and stormed off....then somebody told her what happend...she came back...but she was still crabby....geez...you'd think I'd get a kiss or something...
hahahahaha.
I met my husband in 2000, and he's been addicted to it as well :smile: Where else but in Minnesota will you find a bunch of crazies having a picnic, in the middle of the winter? Not to mention, digging around in the
snow and God only knows what ever else to look for a medallion? LOL good thing it only lasts a few days... that's for sure.
what??? only a few days??? geez...I thought it was year 'round.
Kitch...only that would happen to you! :cool:
Do you guys think that the Winter Carnival is different from the Aquatennial or other "community" festivals?
If so, what do you think the difference is?
(I'm not challenging you, just want get deeper into your analysis about St. Paulite idenitity)
Hi Scribe,
you are sounding like
mya therapistI will compile something for you soon. When is your project due? Its a fun one, I thought we all talked about favorite times before in PF. could be deja vu.
I'm compiling a social history.
A major part of the reason its cooler is that St. Paul is still holding onto a "small town" attitude....neighbors are friends....people care about the community. St. Paul still doesn't act like a major city.
another major reason WC is better then most towns is that its a longer period of time, more $$, more to do, etc...
but if you look at a small community such as Mora, MN...they have the skirace...an one day event...but for some reason its a blast even if you don't ski...
why?? cuz the community cares about the town......that or you have a really good planning committeee.
I'd say it helps to carry a flask around with you wether you ski or not
I think you need to look at the social history of the community...what was st. paul
but I wonder if the WC had more community involvement and was better during the early years......
Yes
If so, what neighborhood are you from?
Frogtwon
Are you a "transplant" to Saint Paul?
No...though Inks is a transplant
If, so from where, and what brought you here?
Inks is from Pennock, MN - population 247 when we first met. I believe it's now up over 400.
First work brought him here and I kept him here.
Are you from "across the river"?
No...though I was born in a Mpls. hospital
How did you get involved in the Carnival?
My Mom always hunted the medallion and we would noodle clues together. It's one of my fondest childhood memories that I could share this "grown-up" thing with her.
Please describe how you think the Carnival reflects the Saint Paul culture.
The City of St. Paul has always been about neighborhoods - though it used to be more about ethnicity. Germans in one neighborhood, the Italians in another, the Irish, the Swedes, etc. all in different neighborhoods.
I've always thought of the Boreas brothers as representing the neighborhood idea of this little town city all coming together to celebrate.
The fact that the Winter Carnival is a long celebration for the coldest time of the year, and is as successful as it's been for so many years, speaks of the hardiness of the people who settled here. Those that have organized the celebration each year have always provided a variety of things for people to participate in with their families and friends. The attraction to many of these events, in my opinion, is the uniqueness of the events during that time of the year.
How much do you know about the legend of the Carnival and the history of Saint Paul through the Carnival?
Any of the Crew would know about the legend of the Carnival. I have learned about the history of St. Paul in a variety of ways - not necessarily because of the Carnival. Having said that, there have often been references to historic facts in the clues for the medallion hunt.
This paper is extremely complicated! My context covers the social history of the development of St. Paul and I plan to explore changes in the social context through the decades.
Basically my context is what Terry was explaining about ethnicities and neighborhoods (Terry,I think you hit the nail on the head there)
As far as the past being more involved...well there is a story to that: At first the Carnival was planned by the elites of St. Paul both to attract business here and to outshine that place across the river, although the general population did attend the events they did not start to take hold into the general identity until well after WWI and finallly solidified after WWII. The reasons for this were national changes, global awareness (resulting in discrimination among already settled ethnic groups such as germans) and economics. My paper will expalin these in detail.
but the atmosphere is completely 100 percent different than the WC. I don't know if it's just the cold weather that makes it different, or where it's held, but it's definately different.
This atmosphere is what I discuss in the beginning of my paper. A famous anthropologist calls it "liminality" which is a suspension of reality for a time and when a temporary reality takes over. This supension of reality is what scholars differentiate between a carnival and a festival. Although both are community celebrations, a carnival creates a new and shared social order for a period of time in which residents can play out different identities and roles that are outside of their normal lives.
(Although more often I am called "Scribe" all year round...perhaps liminality is permanent?! :smile: )
The City of St. Paul has always been about neighborhoods - though it used to be more about ethnicity. Germans in one neighborhood, the Italians in another, the Irish, the Swedes, etc. all in different neighborhoods.
This is it exactly...perhaps this is highlighted more from those of us from Frogtown :pbpt:
Seriously, though what sparked my interest in telling the history of the carnival in this way was realizing the unique cultural identity of those of us who live in St. Paul.
For instance, if I meet up with someone in another state and find that they are from St. Paul, they or I will immediately ask what neighborhood. This answer will give us a general idea of their social and economic status and relationships. Also, being Catholic, I noticed that after neighborhoods we will discuss parishes and then discover that we know some of the same people.
I followed up on this discovery with a cultural historian and anthropologist that studied Minneapolis and she found that this example was one of the most telling and profound differences in St. Paul's culture.
Kinda like South St. Pual....You have Tangletown, North Side, and South Side.
I'm a Northsider---representin'
Where as like, the State Fair, or the Taste of MN, are just events. The best part of the WC is that it celebrates winter in MN
I 100% disagree!!!! To MANY MANY MANY people the state fair is 100% tradition....ya to a most people its just an advent....but I was very active in 4-H as a kid growning up....and well...the state fair was kinda end to a summer of hard work....this is still a tradition that I'm proud of....I have never missed a statefair one summer I drove over 450 miles to get my butt back home just to make that claim!!!!!
You tell a family that has been in generation and generations of 4-H and FFA events of the fair that is just an event...and you will hear an entire flipside......
I think you would be amazed at the # of people that stay overnight in the dorms in side the barns, 4-H building, St. Paul Campus etc for days at a time just to show an animal or a project/knowledge area.
heck...and this is just the FFA/4-H side of it...
granted ......
we all LOVE the Carnival..but I'm speaking in terms of other things that are doings...
Statefair..has a lot of people that consider it a tradition
WC has a lot of people that will only go to the "touchlight" and do nothing else...
WC has a ton of people that read the clues...never hunt...but its a tradition to them with a family.
I guess I'm babbling but how important is it to 95% of the population....I mean...I get kinda pissed when it seems like political heads of the community only seem to care about parades or events in the community in the election years.....seems like they are missing in non-election years...
this kinda hold true for alot of things......I don't know.....I agree with the fact that WC is magical...but to the average JOE is it??? I guess it really comes down to its what you make it to be...
heck...to many of us..the WC is just something going on and making parking hard downtown at the paper when we have a hunt going on...
kinda like my dad...
he could give a crap less what goes on anyplace, except at home or at work....
you mention to him "the winter carnival is going on" and he's like "oh yeah? they still do that stuff?"
heck...why not have concerts in harriet etc...
-2003???
http://notanotherhollywoodfilm.com/coldfeet/media/pioneer_planet_timeless_2004.html
Anyways if you want one, they should be free in the administration office (the white building near the snelling gate).