my darts are actually 24 gm copper - with purple flights that have little sparklie pink hearts on them (yes really - girlie - keeps boys away from them)
I have however been coveting these, and will be making a purchase shortly John Deere Darts
actually though.... I should never be allowed to use somebodies purchased ones.... I've broken enough of the crappy bar darts in my time, to know better.
A recent query to the American Aviation Historical Society (www.aahs-online.org) asked the question, "What is the origin of the "N" in United States civil aircraft registrations?" How did the U.S. end up with "N" instead of "US," or some other designation, as the prefix on our civilian aircraft? After all, Sweden has "SE", Great Britain uses "G", Germany has "D" (Deutschland), and France is "F". And while we are considering this question, where do the C, L, R, X and S prefix designations (NC12345, NX123B, NS123) as seen on some aircraft come from?
1919 Commission Internationale de Navigation Aerienne
The origins of the N in the U.S. registration can be traced back to the Commission Internationale de Navigation Aerienne (CINA - the Convention for the Regulation of Air Navigation) established as part of the Paris Peace Conference immediately following World War I. A part of this conference was the adoption of the Convention for the Regulation of Air Navigation that laid the foundation of the system of international aircraft identification still in use today. In these proceedings, the first letter(s) of the identification designating national origin are set as in the examples described above. Each major participating country was allowed a single identifying letter and to specify their own designation letter. The U.S. delegation was allocated "N."
"The nationality mark shall be represented by capital letters in Roman characters. The registration mark shall be represented by a group of four capital letters; each group shall contain at least one vowel, and for this purpose the letter Y shall be considered a vowel. The complete group of five letters shall be used as a call sign for the particular aircraft in making or receiving signals by wireless telegraphy or other methods of communication, except when opening up communications by means of visual signals."
The nationality and registration marks are assigned in accordance with Table 1.
       While the exact rationale for selecting the letter "N" has not been preserved, there are a number of stories as to why “N” was chosen. Some might be classified as "wives’ tales," others seem to have a grain of truth to them. Though none have been substantiated, here are a few reasons that have been uncovered.
       As early as 1914, states began to license airplanes based in their states. This was partly motivated by the prospects of increasing the state's coffers through the associated licensing fees with public justification being easy identification of aircraft being operated in a way that put life and property at risk. States pursuing this aircraft licensing direction tended to follow their existing licensing practices for personal watercraft. Maryland was the first state to enact aircraft licensing requirements sometime in late 1914. The first aircraft license issued was MAR-1. Other states soon followed and generally used some sort of shortened alpha character followed by numbers.
      U.S. delegates attending the Paris Conference and working on the Convention for the Regulation of Air Navigation were aware of the individual state's licensing efforts. In an attempt to avoid confusion with the display of a required state identification number, this group appears to have requested the letter N that it deemed would stand for the national number.
       As to issue of avoiding confusion? A quick check of state names shows that states with names beginning in N are among the most prolific. If we assume that these states would use N as part of their state registration identifier, then the selection of N for a national identifier would only add to the confusion. With Utah being the only state beginning with “U,” this would have been a more logical choice based on this rationale. Furthermore, this letter was not assigned at the 1919 conference, so was readily available.
      The delegates, being very patriotic selected the letter “N” in recognition of the thirteen original states that formed the U.S. “N” was selected because it is the thirteenth letter in the alphabet.
       Now one can just imagine a bunch of bureaucrats sitting around a table - probably after having consumed copious amounts of alcohol - coming up with this rationale. The only problem is that the letter “N” is the fourteenth letter in the alphabet. So what letter was excluded? Or, did these individuals just not have a firm grip on the alphabet. This version is probably best categorized as an interesting story but not the real reason “N” was selected.
Why "N" Version 3
      This version is based on current events of the time. The four U.S. Navy Curtiss flying boats (designated NC-1 thru NC-4) set out on May 14, 1919, to begin the first crossing of the Atlantic by an aircraft. As we know, only NC-4 successfully completed this crossing, eventually arriving in Plymouth, England, on May 27, 1919. This first flight (albeit not nonstop) preceded the nonstop flight by Alcock and Brown by almost a month. The flight was still fresh on everyone's mind at the time the first international aviation congress convened and our delegation selected “N” in commemoration of this first flight.
       This story sounds logical, particularly if none of the U.S. delegates were Navy types and were unaware that the “N” designation for the NC-4 really stood for Navy. This story like the others has not been substantiated.
       The letter “N” was selected to stand for North America, with “C” being assigned to Central America and “S” for South America. The U.S. ended up exclusively with “N” because Canada was part of the British Empire in 1919 and the registration convention for such colonies to use the British designation in combination with an assigned letter. Canada's designation was G-Cxxx which was changed later. Along with this story goes the postulation that the letters "US" or "USA" could not be selected because the U.S. was one of the five "super" powers designated to have only a single registration prefix. The letter “U” was unacceptable for unknown reasons, even though it was not assigned to any country during the 1919 convention.
       The problem with this version is that it is rife with inconsistencies. As we can see in Table 1, the list of assigned registration letters to all the 1919 participants, Brazil was given P-Bxxx and Panama S-Pxxx, neither of which is consistent with this theory. In fact, a quick scan will show you other inconsistencies as well. Furthermore, Great Britain was quite content with the single letter “G;” so the U.S. could have just as easily accepted “U.”
       The most probable reason the U.S. was allocated “N” for its national registration mark comes from existing regulations of wireless communications in place in 1919. The International Telecommunications Union (ITU, formed in the late 1800s to provide international standards in telecommunications and still going strong today) held its first International Wireless Telegraph Conference in Berlin in 1906. Here the first Service Regulations were established for governing international radiotelegraphic communications. It was at this conference that S-O-S was adopted as the international radio distress call. By 1912, the proliferation of wireless radio stations, both land and ship based, had created chaos in the airways as each base (or country) was creating their own call-signs for identification leading to the potential for call-sign duplication. In 1912 at the London International Radiotelegraphic Conference, the Service Regulations were expanded to include a protocol for international radio call-signs. In short, the following identifiers where assigned to major countries:
G - Great Britain
              D - Germany
              F - France
              I - Italy
              J - Japan
              N, KDA-KZZ, Wxx - United States
The reason "N" was assigned to the U.S. was in recognition of the industry leading development and deployment of wireless communications by the U.S. Navy that had been using "N" as the prefix to its station call-sign identifiers since 1909.
      Obviously, at this point in history (1912) aircraft were barely capable of carrying a pilot and passenger, much less a bulky wireless set. By 1919, when the CINA met, both aviation and wireless technology had made great advances - in part due to development associated with WWI. Aircraft were now capable of carrying wireless communication gear and the practice of including such gear was increasing. As an international protocol for identifying wireless stations already existed, the CINA simply adopted a subset of the ITU call-sign identifiers for consistency. Support of this can be seen in the CINA specifications quoted above that state aircraft are to use their registration number in wireless communications with base stations. By combining the ITU standards into the registration marks, the CINA was simply assuring clarity in wireless communication on an international basis while avoiding unnecessary redundancy.
       Support for this version is found in Aviation magazine dated June 11, 1923 (page 639) that states:
"Nationality Mark of American Aircraft: Aviation reported some time ago on the strength of a Norwegian government decree published in "Machrichten fur Luftfahrer" (the German air department bulletin) that Norway had adopted the letter "N" as its nationality mark. As this letter had previously been allotted to the United States as its aircraft nationality mark, it was editorially suggested that when this country becomes a party to the International Air Convention, the American representatives should ask to have the letter "W" allotted as our aircraft nationality mark. It was pointed out that as the letter "W" was one of the international call letters allotted the United States - as is "N" - such a choice would be eminently practical as well as an act of homage to the Wright brothers. The National Aeronautic Association of U.S.A. now announces on the authority of the Controller General of Civil Aviation in Canada that at the third session of the International Commission for Air Navigation, the letter "E" was granted to Norway as that country's nationality mark, with the letter "N" as the first letter of the registration mark. The letter "N" therefore remains the nationality mark allotted to United States civil aircraft." [Norway never adopted the E-Nxxx allotted to it, but later standardized on LN-xxxx]
This article tends to support the supposition that the CINA adopted the ITU call-sign identifications as both “N” and “W’ appear to have been allocated to the U.S. The article also implies that we quite easily could have ended up with our aircraft registration numbers beginning with “W”, though not in honor of the Wright brothers.
       Unfortunately, the U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Navigation (responsible of administering wireless radio communications from 1911-1927 didn't get with the program. They continued to require separate radio licenses in planes so equipped. During the 1920s and 1930s, they even issued separate call-sign identifiers to these stations beginning with the letter K. For example, in 1937 Amelia Earhart’s call-sign on her Lockheed 10E, NR16020, was KAHQQ. It was not until the late 1940s that the practice of assigning call-signs was discontinued, though they still required a radio license for both the radio transmitter and the operator.
       So, we can probably thank, indirectly, the U.S. Navy for the "N" in the U.S. aircraft registration, as some have postulated, but it wasn't because of the transatlantic crossing of the Navy-Curtiss flying boats.
If I have an extra hard disk on my old computer (Drive E and win ME) with music files on it, can I just take it out and put in my new computer (WinXP) and still save the files?
Yep, but you might have to change a jumper setting on the drive itself. Unless your new system uses a SATA cable, then you'll need a IDE cable, or just go out and buy an external USB hard drive enclosure and save a couple headaches.
World Series of Poker history when they ended play at 6:44 am: 13 hours and 56 minutes after the final round began. The table was 18 minutes longer than the previous mark, established in 1983.
As you know, I almost never reach out to you personally with a request to get involved in a debate in the U.S. Congress. However, today I feel I must.
Right now, the telephone and cable companies in control of Internet access are trying to use their enormous political muscle to dramatically change the Internet. It might be hard to believe, but lawmakers in Washington are seriously debating whether consumers should be free to use the Internet as they want in the future.
Join me by clicking here -- -- to send a message to your representatives in Congress.
The phone and cable companies now control more than 95% of all Internet access. These large corporations are spending millions of dollars to promote legislation that would allow them to divide the Internet into a two-tiered system.
The top tier would be a "Pay-to-Play" high-speed toll-road restricted to only the largest companies that can afford to pay high fees for preferential access to the Net.
The bottom tier -- the slow lane -- would be what is left for everyone else. If the fast lane is the information "super-highway," the slow lane will operate more like a dirt road.
Today's Internet is an incredible open marketplace for goods, services, information and ideas. We can't give that up. A two-lane system will restrict innovation because start-ups and small companies -- the companies that can't afford the high fees -- will be unable to succeed, and we'll lose out on the jobs, creativity and inspiration that come with them.
The power belongs with Internet users, not the big phone and cable companies. Let's use that power to send as many messages as possible to our elected officials in Washington. Please join me by clicking here right now to send a message to your representatives in Congress before it is too late. You can make the difference.
Thank you for reading this note. I hope you'll make your voice heard today.
edited by kitch---took out the link...looks fishy or PHISHY...
no one has ever stopped me for carrying one, but they have stopped (and taken away) my darts. :frown:
it must be national pick on L4V day today or something.
Who loves ya kid? :wink:
:smile: nah - I can take the ribbing.
I have however been coveting these, and will be making a purchase shortly John Deere Darts
But I prefer poisonous darts..... that way if I'm losing, I can easily kill my opponent, and pick up the win anyways. :cool:
is that an ask kitch question??
I'd say the keymaster...
get in line ------->
take a number
picked it up for 3 bucks...
at least this is what I learned when I worked for a crop dusting company...
its the FAA and they wanted to make is simple because they are a government agancy.....so...
"n" stood for "number"
here
A recent query to the American Aviation Historical Society (www.aahs-online.org) asked the question, "What is the origin of the "N" in United States civil aircraft registrations?" How did the U.S. end up with "N" instead of "US," or some other designation, as the prefix on our civilian aircraft? After all, Sweden has "SE", Great Britain uses "G", Germany has "D" (Deutschland), and France is "F". And while we are considering this question, where do the C, L, R, X and S prefix designations (NC12345, NX123B, NS123) as seen on some aircraft come from?
1919 Commission Internationale de Navigation Aerienne
The origins of the N in the U.S. registration can be traced back to the Commission Internationale de Navigation Aerienne (CINA - the Convention for the Regulation of Air Navigation) established as part of the Paris Peace Conference immediately following World War I. A part of this conference was the adoption of the Convention for the Regulation of Air Navigation that laid the foundation of the system of international aircraft identification still in use today. In these proceedings, the first letter(s) of the identification designating national origin are set as in the examples described above. Each major participating country was allowed a single identifying letter and to specify their own designation letter. The U.S. delegation was allocated "N."
"The nationality mark shall be represented by capital letters in Roman characters. The registration mark shall be represented by a group of four capital letters; each group shall contain at least one vowel, and for this purpose the letter Y shall be considered a vowel. The complete group of five letters shall be used as a call sign for the particular aircraft in making or receiving signals by wireless telegraphy or other methods of communication, except when opening up communications by means of visual signals."
The nationality and registration marks are assigned in accordance with Table 1.
       While the exact rationale for selecting the letter "N" has not been preserved, there are a number of stories as to why “N” was chosen. Some might be classified as "wives’ tales," others seem to have a grain of truth to them. Though none have been substantiated, here are a few reasons that have been uncovered.
       As early as 1914, states began to license airplanes based in their states. This was partly motivated by the prospects of increasing the state's coffers through the associated licensing fees with public justification being easy identification of aircraft being operated in a way that put life and property at risk. States pursuing this aircraft licensing direction tended to follow their existing licensing practices for personal watercraft. Maryland was the first state to enact aircraft licensing requirements sometime in late 1914. The first aircraft license issued was MAR-1. Other states soon followed and generally used some sort of shortened alpha character followed by numbers.
      U.S. delegates attending the Paris Conference and working on the Convention for the Regulation of Air Navigation were aware of the individual state's licensing efforts. In an attempt to avoid confusion with the display of a required state identification number, this group appears to have requested the letter N that it deemed would stand for the national number.
       As to issue of avoiding confusion? A quick check of state names shows that states with names beginning in N are among the most prolific. If we assume that these states would use N as part of their state registration identifier, then the selection of N for a national identifier would only add to the confusion. With Utah being the only state beginning with “U,” this would have been a more logical choice based on this rationale. Furthermore, this letter was not assigned at the 1919 conference, so was readily available.
      The delegates, being very patriotic selected the letter “N” in recognition of the thirteen original states that formed the U.S. “N” was selected because it is the thirteenth letter in the alphabet.
       Now one can just imagine a bunch of bureaucrats sitting around a table - probably after having consumed copious amounts of alcohol - coming up with this rationale. The only problem is that the letter “N” is the fourteenth letter in the alphabet. So what letter was excluded? Or, did these individuals just not have a firm grip on the alphabet. This version is probably best categorized as an interesting story but not the real reason “N” was selected.
Why "N" Version 3
      This version is based on current events of the time. The four U.S. Navy Curtiss flying boats (designated NC-1 thru NC-4) set out on May 14, 1919, to begin the first crossing of the Atlantic by an aircraft. As we know, only NC-4 successfully completed this crossing, eventually arriving in Plymouth, England, on May 27, 1919. This first flight (albeit not nonstop) preceded the nonstop flight by Alcock and Brown by almost a month. The flight was still fresh on everyone's mind at the time the first international aviation congress convened and our delegation selected “N” in commemoration of this first flight.
       This story sounds logical, particularly if none of the U.S. delegates were Navy types and were unaware that the “N” designation for the NC-4 really stood for Navy. This story like the others has not been substantiated.
       The letter “N” was selected to stand for North America, with “C” being assigned to Central America and “S” for South America. The U.S. ended up exclusively with “N” because Canada was part of the British Empire in 1919 and the registration convention for such colonies to use the British designation in combination with an assigned letter. Canada's designation was G-Cxxx which was changed later. Along with this story goes the postulation that the letters "US" or "USA" could not be selected because the U.S. was one of the five "super" powers designated to have only a single registration prefix. The letter “U” was unacceptable for unknown reasons, even though it was not assigned to any country during the 1919 convention.
       The problem with this version is that it is rife with inconsistencies. As we can see in Table 1, the list of assigned registration letters to all the 1919 participants, Brazil was given P-Bxxx and Panama S-Pxxx, neither of which is consistent with this theory. In fact, a quick scan will show you other inconsistencies as well. Furthermore, Great Britain was quite content with the single letter “G;” so the U.S. could have just as easily accepted “U.”
       The most probable reason the U.S. was allocated “N” for its national registration mark comes from existing regulations of wireless communications in place in 1919. The International Telecommunications Union (ITU, formed in the late 1800s to provide international standards in telecommunications and still going strong today) held its first International Wireless Telegraph Conference in Berlin in 1906. Here the first Service Regulations were established for governing international radiotelegraphic communications. It was at this conference that S-O-S was adopted as the international radio distress call. By 1912, the proliferation of wireless radio stations, both land and ship based, had created chaos in the airways as each base (or country) was creating their own call-signs for identification leading to the potential for call-sign duplication. In 1912 at the London International Radiotelegraphic Conference, the Service Regulations were expanded to include a protocol for international radio call-signs. In short, the following identifiers where assigned to major countries:
G - Great Britain
              D - Germany
              F - France
              I - Italy
              J - Japan
              N, KDA-KZZ, Wxx - United States
The reason "N" was assigned to the U.S. was in recognition of the industry leading development and deployment of wireless communications by the U.S. Navy that had been using "N" as the prefix to its station call-sign identifiers since 1909.
      Obviously, at this point in history (1912) aircraft were barely capable of carrying a pilot and passenger, much less a bulky wireless set. By 1919, when the CINA met, both aviation and wireless technology had made great advances - in part due to development associated with WWI. Aircraft were now capable of carrying wireless communication gear and the practice of including such gear was increasing. As an international protocol for identifying wireless stations already existed, the CINA simply adopted a subset of the ITU call-sign identifiers for consistency. Support of this can be seen in the CINA specifications quoted above that state aircraft are to use their registration number in wireless communications with base stations. By combining the ITU standards into the registration marks, the CINA was simply assuring clarity in wireless communication on an international basis while avoiding unnecessary redundancy.
       Support for this version is found in Aviation magazine dated June 11, 1923 (page 639) that states:
"Nationality Mark of American Aircraft: Aviation reported some time ago on the strength of a Norwegian government decree published in "Machrichten fur Luftfahrer" (the German air department bulletin) that Norway had adopted the letter "N" as its nationality mark. As this letter had previously been allotted to the United States as its aircraft nationality mark, it was editorially suggested that when this country becomes a party to the International Air Convention, the American representatives should ask to have the letter "W" allotted as our aircraft nationality mark. It was pointed out that as the letter "W" was one of the international call letters allotted the United States - as is "N" - such a choice would be eminently practical as well as an act of homage to the Wright brothers. The National Aeronautic Association of U.S.A. now announces on the authority of the Controller General of Civil Aviation in Canada that at the third session of the International Commission for Air Navigation, the letter "E" was granted to Norway as that country's nationality mark, with the letter "N" as the first letter of the registration mark. The letter "N" therefore remains the nationality mark allotted to United States civil aircraft." [Norway never adopted the E-Nxxx allotted to it, but later standardized on LN-xxxx]
This article tends to support the supposition that the CINA adopted the ITU call-sign identifications as both “N” and “W’ appear to have been allocated to the U.S. The article also implies that we quite easily could have ended up with our aircraft registration numbers beginning with “W”, though not in honor of the Wright brothers.
       Unfortunately, the U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Navigation (responsible of administering wireless radio communications from 1911-1927 didn't get with the program. They continued to require separate radio licenses in planes so equipped. During the 1920s and 1930s, they even issued separate call-sign identifiers to these stations beginning with the letter K. For example, in 1937 Amelia Earhart’s call-sign on her Lockheed 10E, NR16020, was KAHQQ. It was not until the late 1940s that the practice of assigning call-signs was discontinued, though they still required a radio license for both the radio transmitter and the operator.
       So, we can probably thank, indirectly, the U.S. Navy for the "N" in the U.S. aircraft registration, as some have postulated, but it wasn't because of the transatlantic crossing of the Navy-Curtiss flying boats.
now, why do commercial flights call atc as "airline - flgiht number", while private planes contact atc as "cessna - callsign"?
I'm just wondering why...so I know where to start diggin'...I'm going to get in trouble if I get another complaint call to the FAA
but I'll get to it...sometime...
http://pasadena.wr.usgs.gov/shake/ca/STORE/X40187964/ciim_stats_6
and it started about an hour ago...a week from now...
kitch... how long diod the final table of the 2005 WSOP last?
no internet :frown:
I got this e-mail from ebay today:
As you know, I almost never reach out to you personally with a request to get involved in a debate in the U.S. Congress. However, today I feel I must.
Right now, the telephone and cable companies in control of Internet access are trying to use their enormous political muscle to dramatically change the Internet. It might be hard to believe, but lawmakers in Washington are seriously debating whether consumers should be free to use the Internet as they want in the future.
Join me by clicking here -- -- to send a message to your representatives in Congress.
The phone and cable companies now control more than 95% of all Internet access. These large corporations are spending millions of dollars to promote legislation that would allow them to divide the Internet into a two-tiered system.
The top tier would be a "Pay-to-Play" high-speed toll-road restricted to only the largest companies that can afford to pay high fees for preferential access to the Net.
The bottom tier -- the slow lane -- would be what is left for everyone else. If the fast lane is the information "super-highway," the slow lane will operate more like a dirt road.
Today's Internet is an incredible open marketplace for goods, services, information and ideas. We can't give that up. A two-lane system will restrict innovation because start-ups and small companies -- the companies that can't afford the high fees -- will be unable to succeed, and we'll lose out on the jobs, creativity and inspiration that come with them.
The power belongs with Internet users, not the big phone and cable companies. Let's use that power to send as many messages as possible to our elected officials in Washington. Please join me by clicking here right now to send a message to your representatives in Congress before it is too late. You can make the difference.
Thank you for reading this note. I hope you'll make your voice heard today.
edited by kitch---took out the link...looks fishy or PHISHY...
I do have an external drive that works great, but it's my wifes.