Gee, J.T., cars last a lot longer here in Texas because there are no chemicals thrown on the road and the weather is usually great and Texans worship great cars and ...
I'm torn. I like driving, and sometimes I like fixing them. But I don't know a lot about cars, so if it's not something simple I usually can't repair it. On a personal note, I just got my Scout running again! It's been idle for almost two years. Wa-hoo!
i'm with you frosti. problem with the mustang or tempo and they go in for service. yet last fall i did something with the race car i've never done. changed the motor. which is a pretty interesting feat considering that i was not put on this planet to get my hands dirty.
Yep. I finally bit the bullet and took the Scout to the repair station, because my two friends who are gearheads couldn't diagnose the problem any better than I could.
Sweet Volare JT, LOL I laughed when I saw that. It's not as nice as mom's but hers is a wagon. Alot more living space. I am not proud of it but I owned one of those. It actually ran like a champ but man was it ugly. I can't believe that someone put that much work into a Volare. Thanks for the laugh, I needed it today.
Dude... I just happento have fatigue skin disorders headaches muscle pain joint pain neurologic symptoms neuropsychological symptoms symptoms involving the respiratory system sleep disturbances gastrointestinal symptoms cardiovascular symptoms abnormal weight loss andmenstrual disorders...dig? Now send me a check...
Must be rough Fold, We've been going in reverse with the seasons here this week. I imagine you get a good chuckle at native Floridians or those from warm climates who say how cold 35 or even 55 is. I always remembered laughing at my friends in the Corp from the south when it got cold to them It would be around 45 and I'd still have my summer weight BDU's on and these guys would be decked out in full artic regalia and we would look at eachother like HuH ? It was even better when it snowed. Now that was funny.
the closest i ever was to a launch was almost a year ago. i've got some pics of it up on my web site that were taken from the deck of the pool at the hotel i was at. pretty much 40 miles straight east of the cape.
Not exactly a vet issue but in a way I guess it is. The movie "We Were Soilders Once" opens today We talked about it on the old thread I am going to see it tomorrow hopefully. have you ever read the book ? "We were soilders once and young" Great read. Let me know what you think of the movie. Let's hope they don't throw alot of hollywood into it. Here's a story and link from todays press about the movie.
In the new Mel Gibson movie "We Were Soldiers," an American soldier lies dying among the carnage of a terrible battle in Vietnam, gasping his final words: "Tell my wife I love her."
The dying soldier is Sgt. Jack Gell.
The wife was Rebecca Gell, now Rebecca Workentine. She and their children, a son and two daughters, live in Charlotte.
Gibson portrays Hal Moore, the Army lieutenant colonel who co-wrote the book with photojournalist Joe Galloway. In 1965, Moore led 450 men into the battle of Landing Zone X-ray and into an ambush by more than 2,000 North Vietnamese troops.
The battle was the first time the air cavalry, using helicopters instead of horses, was put to a test. In the end, 254 Americans died. Though about 1,800 North Vietnamese lay dead, both sides claimed victory.
I went and saw "We Were Soilders" This weekend with the Wife. An outstanding movie ! The best movie I've seen in a good long while. After reading the book "We were soilders once and young" I was afraid that they would "hollywoodize" or stray from the story that has so much drama in it that they didn't need too. They didn't and although you don't get as much detail with a movie and they have to leave some details out, they stayed with the facts and story. Coincidentally I saw Lt.Colonel Hal Moore U.S Army (Ret) being interviewed about the movie and he and Joe Galloway would not release the screen play unless they had say in the story being told like it was intended. They did,it was excellent. They also give people a good idea what it's like to be the spouse or family of a soilder and what they have to go through as well and made that an integral part of the story, I think it will give some a bigger appreciation not only for the Vietnam Vets but their families that sacrificed as well. My wife usually does not like "War" movies if you will but was enthralled by it. It was hard in a way for me to watch but I can tell you that there wasn't a dry eye in the house. A definate must see. And BTW Gibson does a great job of portraying Moore. Let me know what you think.
Hard to say how the two compare Jethro, I read both and they were both good stories. I also saw both movies. "We were soilders" seems to have stuck alot more with actual history. But both give a good look at the sacrifice and sadness of war. We were soilders is a bit more of a complete story. Both are good examples of if you are going to put troops into harms way, make sure you send enough to do the job with enough support. But both are good reminders to the general public about the sacrifices made by those in uniform that are easy to forget about during times of peace. For my money I'd saw we were soilders was the bettter of the two stories.
Interestingly enough. Those actual battles were swayed in the end despite overwhelming odds by air power as many battles have before and since. Many a vet owes their lives to the sky guys. I am among them no doubt. The vets on the grond and vets who flew above will no doubt enjoy this statement from Dennis Rahnkonen
>Still other terrorists fly F-16's and B-52's.
He apparently forgot F-4's, F-111's, A-10's. A-4's A-6's A1E's, F-14's, F-18's etc. etc. He's said it before and does so again. The veterans, families and active service members who not only flew and fly as well as those saved by them thank people like you Dennis for being so brave.
Once again Fold, you nailed it. I agree 100% Bravo Sir, Bravo. I tip my hat to you sir.
BTW Dennis, the story about agent orange, thanks, too bad I don't think you give a rip about veterans except when it fits into some political agenda you have to show how bad your country is or it effects someone YOU know directly. I could be 100% wrong there, but since you continually lump me and others into one group or call us blind patriots, or jingoistic flag wavers hiding behind old glory, then I guess fair is fair and if that offends you because of something YOU hold dear or sacred then too bad since you seem to care little for others feelings.
I'm amazed that you construed my post as either a personal affront or an attack on veterans.
I'm very sorry for giving that erroneous impression.
I wasn't even addressing you.
Just making a general observation.
As for me stating that F-16 pilots and B-52 crews can be terrorists, I'll not retreat one iota.
It doesn't matter whether we're discussing Israelis or Americans who fly those planes, or whatever their propagandized perception of what they're doing may be...it is the view of the innocents who are often the ones targeted by them, and other aircraft, that's decisive.
In their horrified eyes, they're definitely instruments of abject terror.
Just as we'd correctly think, if someone were bombing us under similar circumstances.
Rob:
My father was an American Legion post commander. An anti-Vietnam war one at that, during that era. He'd make certain that Memorial Day parades didn't go overboard on jingoism, since he didn't want to generate a rah-rah, patriotic fervor that might get other kids to enlist and wind up in the town's cemetery.
At roughly the same time, I was working with the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice, an umbrella group whose prestige element was Vietnam Veterans Against the War, headed by a young ex-Naval officer named John Kerry. Yes, the current Massachusetts senator and likely presidential candidate in 2004. He visited the UWS campus in '71 to tell some shocking truths about our Southeast Asian intervention.
I make no apologies for being a "peacenik" of longstanding, and my association with veterans has been primarily within an antiwar context.
But that doesn't mean my concern doesn't extend to even those conservative veterans who've often attacked me for my various positions over time, such as resisting bringing the mothballed heavy cruiser the USS Des Moines to Duluth-Superior as a tourist trap (a proposal ultimately voted down overwhelmingly in a special referendum).
I don't look upon veterans so much as automatic and universal heroes as victims of humanity's failure to resolve differences by nonviolent means.
In any case, their sacrifice warrants them the greatest and first consideration in health care and other governmental service and protection.
And I'll always struggle to see that they, senior citizens (the chiefly workingclass builders of America's greatness), and children...are prioritized over selfish special-interest desires in federal spending.
it's good to see you feel that way about Vet's But those planes and pilots you detest as terrorists have also saved the lives of many. Including me. It's a long story I do not wish to recount or talk about, but I can tell you that I and 26 other Marines more than likely would be either a former POW's or be dead today if not for those people up in the air. Colateral damage and intentionally bobming civilians are 2 differnt things. I would never support it nor justify it. Sadly many times these people use civilians as shields which is just as egreigious. It's all part of the horrid sickening waste of war. A war that I nor anyone cetainly asked for. I am not going to get into semantics about that, you feel we shouldn't do what we are doing fine. This is not Vietnam as much as you try to equate the two. Vietnam was a horrid despicable waste in which many good people died needlessly in a war run by politicians who didn't care one iota about the boys they sent there to fight with one hand tied behind their back and the wrongness of the airport spitters who like today can't separate the the soilder from the policy.
You said "As for me stating that F-16 pilots and B-52 crews can be terrorists, I'll not retreat one iota." Sure they can be as can any other soilder who is bad that wishes to be. And that's where you are horrificly wrong. And why you owe an apology I feel. You NEVER said "can be" until now. You NEVER made that distinction. You can't separate Pilots from Ground troops. They are all soilders who follow orders. It is an affront to those people and vets as well. It's pathetic you don't see it. There are bad ones in any situation. And the majority don't fit into that category. Never mind Dennis, I neither expect nor want an apology, you obviously don't want too and have said it over and over many times. But remember you said it. I certainly will.
Was it individual, renegade "bad seeds" who perpetrated war crimes in Vietnam?
Or did they result from a combination of orders and an intensely prejudiced, demonization-steeped expectation that even certain atrocious conduct would be accepted?
It's so easy to kill someone who's dehumanized from the start by being termed a "gook".
And what about similar behavior by our troops in other places, at other times?
Such as the burning and bulldozing of the El Chorillo workingclass barrio in Panama during Operation Just Cause.
To those who died cruelly as a result, not just in those two instances but in many others, does such a blurring of "why?" matter?
Obviously not because, for whatever exact reason, they're dead anyway.
But their surviving loved ones probably stew in hatred toward America.
Or had an operation and now instead of being called Juan they want to be called Juanita and work down at the local rapid oil change, did you ever stop to think of that ?
I don't know about you but I am even more worried than ever about the Alquieda and Taliban at "gitmo" I sure hope they eat their culturally sensative meals and and am glad we allow them to wear full turbans since the covers we provided were not good enough. We had about 400 stories about that from the same who were up in arms about the taliban and al quieda's treatment who are Dennis favorites in the British press or Common socialist Dreams dot org about the reports of our soilder who fell from the helicopter when it came under attack and was summarily beaten, probably torured and killed. To bad he wasn't held, given bugers and fries, allowed to pray the rosary and exercize in a tropical climate until he was released or given a trial, he wasn't given that option apparently. No we'll hear little outrage by the same. Those standards only applly to those whose cause you admire, champion or make excuses for terrorists.
Whoa! Nice ride, your's THX? Probably whup that mustang Ares keeps bragging about.
Just something I keep in the shed back behind the trailer park.
well considering ares is too chickensh*t to race his mustang....
Dennis:
I hope your Father has a speedy recovery. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Gee, J.T., cars last a lot longer here in Texas because there are no chemicals thrown on the road and the weather is usually great and Texans worship great cars and ...
bring that sucker down here!
bring that sucker down here!
That ain't my car. I was just joking Just something I found on the net playing around with Luv2Fly.
I'm not into cars really. I hate driving, I hate working on em, and they're expensive.
So ride a bike
So ride a bike
Heck no! I'd rather rollerblade.
I'm not saying I would want to do without my car. I just see it as a tool to get from point A to point B. Not something I do for enjoyment.
I'm torn. I like driving, and sometimes I like fixing them. But I don't know a lot about cars, so if it's not something simple I usually can't repair it.
On a personal note, I just got my Scout running again! It's been idle for almost two years. Wa-hoo!
i'm with you frosti. problem with the mustang or tempo and they go in for service. yet last fall i did something with the race car i've never done. changed the motor. which is a pretty interesting feat considering that i was not put on this planet to get my hands dirty.
Yep. I finally bit the bullet and took the Scout to the repair station, because my two friends who are gearheads couldn't diagnose the problem any better than I could.
Sweet Volare JT, LOL I laughed when I saw that. It's not as nice as mom's but hers is a wagon. Alot more living space. I am not proud of it but I owned one of those. It actually ran like a champ but man was it ugly. I can't believe that someone put that much work into a Volare. Thanks for the laugh, I needed it today.
Note: I'm under complete control, J. I just think the little booger needs to be disciplined when he steps out of line. = )
OOOOOOPS!! Overflow from the old boards!! Hi Bud.
Dude... I just
happen to have fatigue skin disorders headaches muscle pain joint pain neurologic symptoms neuropsychological symptoms symptoms involving the respiratory system sleep disturbances gastrointestinal symptoms cardiovascular symptoms abnormal weight loss
and menstrual disorders...dig? Now send me a check...
Adios...
DUDE
He's not even worth a muscle contraction, eh Bill...
he's absolutely worthless...
It was old news, Bill...
It's been seen before...
and most likely will be seen again...
now that he's come back out of hiding...
ROFLMFAO...
Bill:
Thank you kindly for your helpful advice regarding my father and the vets hospital.
Dad is home now, substantially improved, but a nursing home may be required.
Considering he's 91, I guess that's something to be expected.
Again, thanks.
Glad to hear he's doing better Dennis.
I heard it was cold at Disneyworld this morning.
The local weatherman said it was around 36 degrees.
Mickey must have been nipping out.
Must be rough Fold, We've been going in reverse with the seasons here this week. I imagine you get a good chuckle at native Floridians or those from warm climates who say how cold 35 or even 55 is. I always remembered laughing at my friends in the Corp from the south when it got cold to them It would be around 45 and I'd still have my summer weight BDU's on and these guys would be decked out in full artic regalia and we would look at eachother like HuH ? It was even better when it snowed. Now that was funny.
Fold, I would love to see a launch I am jealous.
BTWThe chief pilot astronaut is one of our own a St.Paul boy nonetheless.
And a big Lift off JOE! TOO
the closest i ever was to a launch was almost a year ago. i've got some pics of it up on my web site that were taken from the deck of the pool at the hotel i was at. pretty much 40 miles straight east of the cape.
Bill Fold,
Not exactly a vet issue but in a way I guess it is. The movie "We Were Soilders Once" opens today We talked about it on the old thread I am going to see it tomorrow hopefully. have you ever read the book ? "We were soilders once and young" Great read. Let me know what you think of the movie. Let's hope they don't throw alot of hollywood into it. Here's a story and link from todays press about the movie.
In the new Mel Gibson movie "We Were Soldiers," an American soldier lies dying among the carnage of a terrible battle in Vietnam, gasping his final words: "Tell my wife I love her."
The dying soldier is Sgt. Jack Gell.
The wife was Rebecca Gell, now Rebecca Workentine. She and their children, a son and two daughters, live in Charlotte.
Gibson portrays Hal Moore, the Army lieutenant colonel who co-wrote the book with photojournalist Joe Galloway. In 1965, Moore led 450 men into the battle of Landing Zone X-ray and into an ambush by more than 2,000 North Vietnamese troops.
The battle was the first time the air cavalry, using helicopters instead of horses, was put to a test. In the end, 254 Americans died. Though about 1,800 North Vietnamese lay dead, both sides claimed victory.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/2768299.htm
most respected climatologists/meteorologists
Is there such a thing?
Jethro, lay off the big ass font, OK?
Good riddance!
Bill Fold,
I went and saw "We Were Soilders" This weekend with the Wife. An outstanding movie ! The best movie I've seen in a good long while. After reading the book "We were soilders once and young" I was afraid that they would "hollywoodize" or stray from the story that has so much drama in it that they didn't need too. They didn't and although you don't get as much detail with a movie and they have to leave some details out, they stayed with the facts and story. Coincidentally I saw Lt.Colonel Hal Moore U.S Army (Ret) being interviewed about the movie and he and Joe Galloway would not release the screen play unless they had say in the story being told like it was intended. They did,it was excellent. They also give people a good idea what it's like to be the spouse or family of a soilder and what they have to go through as well and made that an integral part of the story, I think it will give some a bigger appreciation not only for the Vietnam Vets but their families that sacrificed as well. My wife usually does not like "War" movies if you will but was enthralled by it. It was hard in a way for me to watch but I can tell you that there wasn't a dry eye in the house. A definate must see. And BTW Gibson does a great job of portraying Moore. Let me know what you think.
How does "We Were Soldiers" compare with "Blac Hawk Down?"
Hard to say how the two compare Jethro, I read both and they were both good stories. I also saw both movies. "We were soilders" seems to have stuck alot more with actual history. But both give a good look at the sacrifice and sadness of war. We were soilders is a bit more of a complete story. Both are good examples of if you are going to put troops into harms way, make sure you send enough to do the job with enough support. But both are good reminders to the general public about the sacrifices made by those in uniform that are easy to forget about during times of peace. For my money I'd saw we were soilders was the bettter of the two stories.
How does "We Were Soldiers" compare with "Blac Hawk Down?"
Interestingly enough. Those actual battles were swayed in the end despite overwhelming odds by air power as many battles have before and since.
Many a vet owes their lives to the sky guys. I am among them no doubt. The vets on the grond and vets who flew above will no doubt enjoy this statement from Dennis Rahnkonen
>Still other terrorists fly F-16's and B-52's.
He apparently forgot F-4's, F-111's, A-10's. A-4's A-6's A1E's, F-14's, F-18's etc. etc.
He's said it before and does so again. The veterans, families and active service members who not only flew and fly as well as those saved by them thank people like you Dennis for being so brave.
http://commondreams.org/headlines02/0304-02.htm
VIETNAM VETS SAY AGENT ORANGE VICTIMS SHOULD BE COMPENSATED
Amen Bill Fold, Well said !
Once again Fold, you nailed it. I agree 100%
Bravo Sir, Bravo. I tip my hat to you sir.
BTW Dennis, the story about agent orange, thanks, too bad I don't think you give a rip about veterans except when it fits into some political agenda you have to show how bad your country is or it effects someone YOU know directly. I could be 100% wrong there, but since you continually lump me and others into one group or call us blind patriots, or jingoistic flag wavers hiding behind old glory, then I guess fair is fair and if that offends you because of something YOU hold dear or sacred then too bad since you seem to care little for others feelings.
And liberals accuse ME of being self-righteous!
Yes they certainly do, don't they, fold?
Bill:
I'm amazed that you construed my post as either a personal affront or an attack on veterans.
I'm very sorry for giving that erroneous impression.
I wasn't even addressing you.
Just making a general observation.
As for me stating that F-16 pilots and B-52 crews can be terrorists, I'll not retreat one iota.
It doesn't matter whether we're discussing Israelis or Americans who fly those planes, or whatever their propagandized perception of what they're doing may be...it is the view of the innocents who are often the ones targeted by them, and other aircraft, that's decisive.
In their horrified eyes, they're definitely instruments of abject terror.
Just as we'd correctly think, if someone were bombing us under similar circumstances.
Rob:
My father was an American Legion post commander. An anti-Vietnam war one at that, during that era. He'd make certain that Memorial Day parades didn't go overboard on jingoism, since he didn't want to generate a rah-rah, patriotic fervor that might get other kids to enlist and wind up in the town's cemetery.
At roughly the same time, I was working with the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice, an umbrella group whose prestige element was Vietnam Veterans Against the War, headed by a young ex-Naval officer named John Kerry. Yes, the current Massachusetts senator and likely presidential candidate in 2004. He visited the UWS campus in '71 to tell some shocking truths about our Southeast Asian intervention.
I make no apologies for being a "peacenik" of longstanding, and my association with veterans has been primarily within an antiwar context.
But that doesn't mean my concern doesn't extend to even those conservative veterans who've often attacked me for my various positions over time, such as resisting bringing the mothballed heavy cruiser the USS Des Moines to Duluth-Superior as a tourist trap (a proposal ultimately voted down overwhelmingly in a special referendum).
I don't look upon veterans so much as automatic and universal heroes as victims of humanity's failure to resolve differences by nonviolent means.
In any case, their sacrifice warrants them the greatest and first consideration in health care
and other governmental service and protection.
And I'll always struggle to see that they, senior citizens (the chiefly workingclass builders of America's greatness), and children...are prioritized over selfish special-interest desires
in federal spending.
Dennis,
it's good to see you feel that way about Vet's But those planes and pilots you detest as terrorists have also saved the lives of many. Including me. It's a long story I do not wish to recount or talk about, but I can tell you that I and 26 other Marines more than likely would be either a former POW's or be dead today if not for those people up in the air. Colateral damage and intentionally bobming civilians are 2 differnt things. I would never support it nor justify it. Sadly many times these people use civilians as shields which is just as egreigious. It's all part of the horrid sickening waste of war. A war that I nor anyone cetainly asked for. I am not going to get into semantics about that, you feel we shouldn't do what we are doing fine. This is not Vietnam as much as you try to equate the two. Vietnam was a horrid despicable waste in which many good people died needlessly in a war run by politicians who didn't care one iota about the boys they sent there to fight with one hand tied behind their back and the wrongness of the airport spitters who like today can't separate the the soilder from the policy.
You said "As for me stating that F-16 pilots and B-52 crews can be terrorists, I'll not retreat one iota." Sure they can be as can any other soilder who is bad that wishes to be. And that's where you are horrificly wrong. And why you owe an apology I feel. You NEVER said "can be" until now. You NEVER made that distinction. You can't separate Pilots from Ground troops. They are all soilders who follow orders. It is an affront to those people and vets as well. It's pathetic you don't see it. There are bad ones in any situation. And the majority don't fit into that category.
Never mind Dennis, I neither expect nor want an apology, you obviously don't want too and have said it over and over many times. But remember you said it. I certainly will.
Was it individual, renegade "bad seeds" who perpetrated war crimes in Vietnam?
Or did they result from a combination of orders and an intensely prejudiced, demonization-steeped expectation that even certain atrocious conduct would be accepted?
It's so easy to kill someone who's dehumanized from the start by being termed a "gook".
And what about similar behavior by our troops in other places, at other times?
Such as the burning and bulldozing of the El Chorillo workingclass barrio in Panama during Operation Just Cause.
To those who died cruelly as a result, not just in those two instances but in many others, does such a blurring of "why?" matter?
Obviously not because, for whatever exact reason, they're dead anyway.
But their surviving loved ones probably stew in hatred toward America.
Maybe they've gone on to join al-Qaida.
Or moved to Superior WI ?
Or had an operation and now instead of being called Juan they want to be called Juanita and work down at the local rapid oil change, did you ever stop to think of that ?
I don't know about you but I am even more worried than ever about the Alquieda and Taliban at "gitmo" I sure hope they eat their culturally sensative meals and and am glad we allow them to wear full turbans since the covers we provided were not good enough. We had about 400 stories about that from the same who were up in arms about the taliban and al quieda's treatment who are Dennis favorites in the British press or Common socialist Dreams dot org about the reports of our soilder who fell from the helicopter when it came under attack and was summarily beaten, probably torured and killed. To bad he wasn't held, given bugers and fries, allowed to pray the rosary and exercize in a tropical climate until he was released or given a trial, he wasn't given that option apparently. No we'll hear little outrage by the same. Those standards only applly to those whose cause you admire, champion or make excuses for terrorists.