While watching most major news networks, I have almost never heard the word "Palestinian" in a sentence without the word "terrorism." After you hear this for a while, the two words seem to naturally fit together, like "chocolate" and "vanilla." People begin to form automatic links in their minds. This is a dangerous association, one that the media seems to never stop whispering to us.
Having just returned from a monthlong trip in the West Bank, I witnessed terrorism of a whole different color -- Israeli state terrorism. The fact that most people aren't familiar with "state terrorism" goes to show that terrorism is defined by those who get away with it. I have seen houses of innocent families demolished by the Israeli army, ambulances shot at, water and electricity lines destroyed, and tanks firing on children.
I've seen Palestinians being randomly detained in the hot sun, threatened and kicked, all in the name of "security." The suicide bombings are not without cause. They don't happen because Palestinians hate all Jews. They are a direct result of 35 years of military rule.
Although I am strongly opposed to them, after witnessing the situation in the West Bank, where 70 percent unemployment is the norm, I can see how these bombers would feel they have nothing more to lose. They have grown up in neighborhoods that have been turned into prisons, where tanks rolling through the streets and the sounds of military loudspeakers blaring orders is as common as a trip to the mall here.
As long as America keeps funding Israel, as long as the occupation continues, there will be no end to suicide bombings. Desperation, in the end, is stronger than any military force.
Stripped to its essence, what is George Bush's war-with-Iraq frenzy all about?
A president who "won" office with more than half a million less votes than Al Gore, and who was AWOL during his own military service (Boston Globe, 5-23-00), is brashly "mandating" sending America's youth to face violent death to implement a "regime change" that would make Iraq a servile supplier of oil, on U.S. energy-interest terms.
It's a smokescreened foreign policy extension of the corruption exemplified by the Enron scandal, having nothing to do with Saddam Hussein's behavior, but everything to do with corporate greed.
And it would all be done via an attack every bit as illegal and immoral as Hitler's invasion of Poland!
If you find this mad travesty appalling -- and of greater ultimate harm to our nation and what it should properly stand for than the Vietnam debacle -- please speak out now.
Forces of reason and peace are quickly coming together to stop the slaughter before it starts. Oct. 26 will see an unprecedented outpouring of antiwar sentiment in Washington, D.C. Although announced just a few days ago, already scores of organizational endorsers have given their firm commitment to be there. Bus reservations are being filled across the country.
Recent opinion polls show a deep slide in backing for Bush's reckless policy.
The time is ripe for a popular reassertion of people's democracy, taking our nation back from the manipulative special interests that have held us all hostage in furtherance of their selfish agenda.
As the first anniversary of 9/11 approaches, we have a right to mourn over a terrible tragedy.
But we also have a sacred duty to thwart those in power who've crassly seized upon our emotions to try to hijack the national purpose for their own narrow gain.
The world is correct in standing aghast over what's being proposed.
It's profoundly WRONG to ship off the highschoolers of a few months ago to engage in fierce house-to-house combat half a world away -- while the Iraqi people suffer mass death from our bombing on a genocidal scale -- just so a handful of sleazy fat cats can superprofiteer even more.
Rob, your relentless justification of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki mass murders of thousands of innocent noncombatants (including FAR more children than both sides have claimed in the Middle East) renders your remarks hypocritical in the extreme.
Is it not "national necessity" that motivates your defense of the greatest war crime in human history?!
Now, I'm not inflexible.
I'll gladly admit that Palestinian suicide bombing is wrong...
If you admit that what we did to Japanese mothers, their playing kids, and old men...was also a crime, only worse, because of the scale involved, and because we really didn't have to do it to assure Japan's defeat.
By the way, if and when we go to war against Saddam Hussein, do you think the whistling shrapnel will slice through HIS hide, or the soft flesh of COUNTLESS Iraqi civilians?
We would be going into fierce combat in MAJOR cities with very large populations.
I have to go to bed.
I suggest you do the same, and think about that prospect in the dark privacy of your room.
Rob, your relentless justification of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki mass murders of thousands of innocent noncombatants (including FAR more children than both sides have claimed in the Middle East) renders your remarks hypocritical in the extreme. Â Â
You have hypocrisy down to an art form. You have constantly apologized for terrorism ad nauseum. Yes it's bad but, yes it's wrong, but, yes but, but but. We've been over Hiroshima/Nagasaki a million times. More people died in other battles that were for that same cause which was worthy in my book. Yet you don't say anything about them. 41 million civilians died in WW2. Because the people in Hiroshima/Nagasaki died all at once makes that worse ? Many more would have died without it and you know it or won't admit it out of blindness. Forget it, I'm done debating the bomb, it was 60 years ago and you weren't a 19 year old kid who would have had to take that piece of coral. You have no idea what it's like. You disagree with it, fine. The situations are quite different in many ways. If you want to debate the bomb take it over to the history board. Until then keep on a posting your own brand of sad hypocrisy. Have a good night.
Mussharraf did not installed himself for life time Emperer b'coz there is no such kind of designation in Pakistan offcourse he is the president of Pakistan for next five years with a fuly functional Parliment and a Prime Minister going to be elected in Oct. 10, 2002. Plus in the whole 55 years history of pakistan not even a single Pres. or PM could stay for his or her life time. :-)
Mushrraf cannot stop Freedom fighter in kashmir b'coz people of Pakistan don't want this and will not allow him. we have no intention what so ever to stop freedom fighters in Indian occupied kashmir. they have legitimate right to free their homeland and do whatever they can do to weaken indian occupation. they have the right to attack on indian malitry installation in Indian Occupied kashmir and kill indian army personnel. we will keep suporting their legitimate cause in diplomatic and political front. no one should have any doubt on this.
If Musharraf were overthrown, Islamic radicals could take over. And that could lead to some bad consequences, like radicals with their hands on Pakistan's nuclear weapons--Rick
you seems to have a very bad desease of nightmare :-))) LoL. I guess you are not alone lots of western adventurists have this desease, I remember I saw lots of hollywood movies much before 9-11 showing terrorist are blowing American skyscraper :-)) I think people like you are the good source of ideas for terrorist. these kind of people are dengerous for their own society and they must consult with doctors. :-)
One last thing for u that If you can't justify the killing of 6 months babies by Israeli animals and american support to all these brutality don't throw stone to others it just shows your weakness on your point of view.
I have never seen in any news channel or news paper not even on baised american media showing palestinian celebrating suicide bombimg offcourse i have seen lots of pic. and movie clips show palestinian are careeing bodies of infants and children murdered by Israeli Evil Forces and protesting on the streets lots of them pledging for revenge under the the deep sorrow and anger.
If a so-called israeli moderate cries after such kind of brutal crime it does not wash the crimes of Israeli evil force. the main task for those so-called moderate and crying Israeli is to stop their Gov. and malitry rather then showing crocodile tears on media :-)
Then you better get consistent and support the Palestinians' struggle for justice.
Because even the "best" Israel has "offered" them (Ehud Barak to Yassir Arafat) was a total sham:
Continued Israeli sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, no mention of a "right of return" for a single refugee, of the settlements built illegally outside east Jerusalem in Israeli hands, of the 10-mile-wide Israeli buffer zone round "Palestine", of scarcely 46 per cent of the 22 percent of Palestine under negotiation to be given to Palestinians.
Under Sharon and Likud, of course, there would NEVER be anything even poorly resembling a genuine, independent Palestinian nation.
Just the perpetual oppression of the weak by the mighty, in accordance with the sick Zionist notion that God wills it so.
Rob, your constant, unswerving devotion to the cruel politics and philosophy of reaction have made me fully appreciate that the only difference between a rightwing Republican and an actual fascist is what he manages to keep hidden and vague...until such time as power relationships decisively shift, and it becomes acceptable and "safe" to openly espouse Gestapo "values".
THX, your Hiroshima/Nagasaki related question is moot, since objective reality would have made a Japanese surrender possible without the terrible atomic attacks.
The real question to ask is this, with an eye toward Bush's bellicose machinations:
"Is it right to sacrifice America's sons, and the civilians of Iraq, to let Enron-style greedheads get their hands on another country's oil?"
The grubby Palestinians and the trigger happy Israelis should keep their murderous hands off Jerusalem.
Jerusalem is an International city - sacred to 3 faiths. Extremists like the Palestinians or the Jews should not have exclusive control of it. They will just end up murdering each other and destroying the place.
Jerusalem should be run by an inter-faith elected council. It should be a city country with no affliation to either Israel or Palestine.
One thorny and contentitious issue removed. Onwards to a resolution.
The IDF commanders and soldiers, who have killed or ordered killing of civilians can also easily be identified. There is plenty of proof. And there is no need for police. Let Israel turn over their criminals Peter Lefterov,
The custodian of Israel will never let it happen :-))) LoL
A desperate Palestinian blow himselfe in anger b'coz he just had to burry his 6 months old son/doughter, sis/bro or nephew who was shot dead by Israeli evil force. He has the right for revenge, his intention is not to kill civilian but to demonistrate his anger he take the step of suicide b'coz he has no choice he is armless he has no anti tank mesile to destroy those Isaeli tanks who come to kill their babies he has no anti aircraft mesiles to shoot down those american given F-16 who come to kill their babies palestinian don't have helis and aircrafts so that they can destroy Israeli malitry instalations in telaviv so what else they can do!!!?? its a human nature to protect them and their children and do whatever they can do even give their lives to protect their children one can not stop them.
"Mushrraf cannot stop Freedom fighter in kashmir b'coz people of Pakistan don't want this and will not allow him. we have no intention what so ever to stop freedom fighters in Indian occupied kashmir. they have legitimate right to free their homeland and do whatever they can do to weaken indian occupation."
What happened to the man who said the people of Kashmir should have the right to determine their direction? It appears you want them to make a particular decision, and you support that decision to be coerced under the threat of terrorism.
"they have the right to attack on indian malitry installation in Indian Occupied kashmir and kill indian army personnel. we will keep suporting their legitimate cause in diplomatic and political front. no one should have any doubt on this. "
You respect the spreading of terrorism and destabilization in the region. Instead of supporting some break in the cycle of war and tension, you only want it to stop when Kashmir is part of Pakistan. So you don't support Kashmiri self determination. For you there is only ONE decision they can make.
"Is it right to sacrifice America's sons, and the civilians of Iraq, to let Enron-style greedheads get their hands on another country's oil?"
George Dumbshit Bush would whore his own mother for more oil profits. Come to think of it, his old man has probably already done that. Maybe that's why everyone says he's the ILLEGITIMATE president. Wouldn't it be funny if Bill Clinton turned out to be his real dad? Someone call Dionne Warwick --- QUICK! Meanwhile, the blowjobs continue in the Oval Office --- but this time it isn't plump little interns in blue dresses, it's overweight oil execs in cum-stained blue flannel pinstripes. The more things "change" the more they stay the same. Had enough? Then quit putting these BIRDS OF A FEATHER who fuck [us] together into public office. Chances are, when Pimp Bush decides to attack Iraq it'll be the exact date he attacked New York and DC last year --- wait and see. Pass out the invites, turn on CNN, and have a Super Bowl-style party for the 2nd Annual George Bush Terror-A-Thon!
there is a consensus among the people of kashmir to get liberate from indian occupation some minor group of them may not wanna be the part of pakistan BUT as far as freedom from indian occupation is concern they all are united in this one point agenda and put all their views aside Pakistan knows this fact and desire of kashmiri people and its kashmiri people and their legitimate right of self determination for which they are fighting and we are supporting and will keep supporting.
There cannot be peace and harmony when people are oppressed and deprived of freedom untill they are freed we don't want peace and harmony on the cost of freedom of kashmiri people b'coz we know it will not work.
There is a ban on Palestinian to acquire heavy weaponse to defend themselves plus UN is considered a hostage by US. US threaten them to stop funds IF UN will take any action against Israeli brutality :-) there have been hundred and thousands of latters written to UN and I beleive all have gone to dustbin :-)
Peter! there is a universal fact..
Power abuse by evils can only be stopped by power
let palestinian get weaponse like tanks, helis and jets even less then Israelis and THEN see how they eliminate this evil from earth forever!
GAZA CITY, Sept 8: The Israeli army staged an incursion into autonomous Palestinian territory in the central Gaza Strip on Sunday, Palestinian security sources said.
Meanwhile, the Israeli army on Sunday arrested 17 Palestinians in the village of Yatta, south of the West Bank city of Al Khalil, Palestinian witnesses said.
IF palestinian whould have tanks too then Israelis never dare to enter into Palestinian territory.
Rob, your constant, unswerving devotion to the cruel politics and philosophy of reaction have made me fully appreciate that the only difference between a rightwing Republican and an actual fascist is what he manages to keep hidden and vague...until such time as power relationships decisively shift, and it becomes acceptable and "safe" to openly espouse Gestapo "values". Â Â
First of all Dennis it's not a policy of reaction. I believe in being proactive. Hey good going Dennis, you're out of material, there's a Hitler reference and facism, originality at it's best. Cool dude. Oh you forgot the whole anti justice, capatalism, corporate, imperialism rant, blah blah blah.
Have you resorted to melding posts and just jumbling paragraphs ? You've got ZERO idea what you're talking about, you don't know me. You'd rather sit there and continually piss and moan about your own nation while doing very little. Air must be thin from your percieved moral high ground becuase not only are you running out of material (of your own) but you're losing it my friend.
THE US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.
Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.
Classified US Defense Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.
The Senate committee's reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis -- the micro-organism that causes anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning.
One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987. Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989; the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers' City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986.
The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US.
The Senate report also makes clear that: 'The United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programs.'
This assistance, according to the report, included 'chemical warfare- agent precursors, chemical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings, chemical warfare filling equipment, biological warfare-related materials, missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment'.
Donald Riegle, then chairman of the committee, said: 'UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs.'
Riegle added that, between January 1985 and August 1990, the 'executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record'.
It is thought the information contained in the Senate committee reports is likely to make up much of the 'evidence of proof' that Bush and Blair will reveal in the coming days to justify the US and Britain going to war with Iraq. It is unlikely, however, that the two leaders will admit it was the Western powers that armed Saddam with these weapons of mass destruction.
However, Bush and Blair will also have to prove that Saddam still has chemical, biological and nuclear capabilities. This looks like a difficult case to clinch in view of the fact that Scott Ritter, the UN's former chief weapons inspector in Iraq, says the United Nations destroyed most of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and doubts that Saddam could have rebuilt his stocks by now.
According to Ritter, between 90% and 95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were destroyed by the UN. He believes the remainder were probably used or destroyed during 'the ravages of the Gulf War'.
Ritter has described himself as a 'card-carrying Republican' who voted for George W Bush. Nevertheless, he has called the president a 'liar' over his claims that Saddam Hussein is a threat to America.
Ritter has also alleged that the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons emits certain gases, which would have been detected by satellite. 'We have seen none of this,' he insists. 'If Iraq was producing weapons today, we would have definitive proof.'
He also dismisses claims that Iraq may have a nuclear weapons capacity or be on the verge of attaining one, saying that gamma-particle atomic radiation from the radioactive materials in the warheads would also have been detected by western surveillance.
The UN's former co-ordinator in Iraq and former UN under-secretary general, Count Hans von Sponeck, has also told the Sunday Herald that he believes the West is lying about Iraq's weapons program.
Von Sponeck visited the Al-Dora and Faluja factories near Baghdad in 1999 after they were 'comprehensively trashed' on the orders of UN inspectors, on the grounds that they were suspected of being chemical weapons plants. He returned to the site late in July this year, with a German TV crew, and said both plants were still wrecked.
'We filmed the evidence of the dishonesty of the claims that they were producing chemical and biological weapons,' von Sponeck has told the Sunday Herald. 'They are indeed in the same destroyed state which we witnessed in 1999. There was no trace of any resumed activity at all.'
Tanks, helis and jets can't be acquired illegaly BUT anti tank and anti aircraft mesiles can be provided to them as afgan were provided anti tank and anti aircraft mesiles by US during afghan war in 80's but this task need support of neighbouring states. neighbouring arab states of palestine are not doing their job. US is openly providing weaponse to Israel which is being used for the killing of innocent palestinian people but neighbouring arab state are not providing them modren weaponse so that they can defend themselves against Israeli brutality. Arab states have the right to do this and they should do it.
I am not in support of counter attack or revenge BUT i am strongly in support of that a nation atleast must have neccessory equipment by which they can effectivily defend themselves and palestinian are deprived of this right and suicide bombing is just a consequence of this deprivation. history proves that imbalance of power always created human catastrophe and provoked war.
UN has lost its credibility it has failed to implement all of its own resolutions on Palestine and Kashmir. UN can only implement those resolution for which US give permission to them. I guess you also aware of that what US has done with internation war crimes courts :-)
Rick - (PFID:f4405cc) - 04:18pm Sep 8, 2002 PST (# 611 of 621)
apple-314159 You have a number in your name. Does that mean you are obsessed with: Rape? The Number 40? or New Mexico?
???? What? Clearly I'm missing something.
The 314159 is (sort of) the Greek number PI. (left out the decimal). I thought it was cute, 'apple-pi ' you know like as American as..... However it seems to have backfired as most believe I'm a rep for Snapple, Fruit of the Loom or the Canadian Cider industry.
When we were at the St Paul Pioneer Press forum, we had an insane person by the username of Cougar that was fixated on the #40, New Mexico, his special Asian girl, Rape, & something about oppression.
Israel's "war on terror" has always been just a propagandized effort to shift blame from its 35-year-long, systematic, massively oppressive, cruelly brutal military occupation... to the desperation tactics of a handful of Palestinian extremists who would almost certainly be civil politicians and parlimentarians if Israel had EVER given the Palestinian cause democratic space and a fair chance -- any chance -- to succeed by peaceful, universally accepted means.
Sharon darkly paints HIS victims as victimizers, while totally smokescreening and whitewashing Israel's prior, longstanding, ongoing crime against a whole people.
I never said jews are evil and eliminate them! I know these will be crazy words and it cannot be possible b'coz jews are not only in Israel I think they are more throughout the world then in Israel and also its imposible to eliminate a particular community from earth :-) I always said its Israel who has became an evil a state of evil by its own acts, its malitry is killing innocent women,children and infants rather fighting with a regular competent malitry force. they have became filthy, cowards and blood thirsty they have became used to of human blood. its the rsponsibility of civilized world either to force them on the path of peace or eliminate this evil forever.
you are right its the power that can only protect the interest of a country not the international organiations we know this natural fact very well, you know no action can be taken by UN that harm the interests of world powers like US, Russia, China, France and Britian whether its right or wrong otherwise there will be a WW3 :-)). as far as UN role on preventing war is concern UN completely failed to accomplish this goal there were about 200 smaller and larger scale war throughout the world since 1945 and on most of them a smaller or weaker country was beaten by those five wolrd powers directly or indirectly to protect their interests :-)
Peter! US is asking for exception for its malitry personnel on International war crimes courts means US soldiers and malitry officials cannot be prosecuted on these courts whether they are guilty or not Otherwise as all of us know there will be WW3 :-)) LoL
Indian consilder 'Ram' as their god, Ram is the god of majority of hindus espacialy the upper cast Birahmins, some lower cast Dillits and Shoders also consider monkey, rats, sexual organs and imaginary monsters as their god.
now, now Sid the kid - Naeem Siddiqui 9/12/02 11:06pm- no need to denigrate Hindus to make your point - whatever it is. Remember OBL is venerated by numerous Muslims - surely a monkey is nobler than that cretin!!
little boy bush goes to the UN and tells the world that so-dumb-insane of eye-rack has weapons of mass destruction and that he brazenly violates security council resolutions. So he wants to go wack off so-dumb and pulverize the eye-rackis.
Hmmm - Israel also has WMD's and Israel is one of the most blatant ignorers of UN resolutions. We should take a crack at Adolf Sharon on our way to/back from eye-rack.
I am not denigrating Hindus I am just telling facts Hindus do worship monkeys, rat and even sexual organs of human.
Israel also has WMD's and Israel is one of the most blatant ignorers of UN resolutions. We should take a crack at Adolf Sharon on our way to/back from eye-rack.---Naradar
India is also a blatant ignorers of UN resolutions and developing WMD's, never allowed international monitors and inspectors to visit India's neuclear installations. it also have bad relation with all of its immidiate neighbours (Pakistan, China, Bangladesh, Srilanka)
Hussein's Iraq has refused to fully comply with Security Council resolutions, but it is hardly alone in this. It is not a secret that Israel stands in violation of Security Council resolutions, among them SCR 242 calling for withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza. Thirty-five years later, the United States' response to that violation remains massive economic and military aid that allows Israel to remain defiant...
The question has never been whether Saddam is a nice guy, but rather how to deal with his regime. The U.S. strategy to date -- under Bush I, Clinton and Bush II -- has been to offer disincentives rather than incentives.
Beginning under the first President Bush and continuing in the Clinton years, U.S. demanded Iraqi compliance with weapons inspections but also said that even if inspections certified that Iraq to be clean of weapons of mass destruction, the economic sanctions might well stay in place "in perpetuity." In other words, the message to Hussein was: Comply with the rules, but your punishment will never end.
Finally, after manipulating the inspections process to provoke a confrontation by demanding the right to inspect sensitive sites, inspectors were pulled out on U.S. orders -- not evicted by Iraq -- in December 1998 right before the United States launched cruise missile strikes on Iraq. Not surprisingly, Iraq has not been eager to allow inspectors to return, especially after it was revealed that what Iraq had long contended was true -- the United States had used inspectors to spy on the Iraqi regime.
Bush I and Clinton had always talked "regime change," but after 9/11/01 Bush II upped the ante by stating openly that such change likely would come through a U.S. war. The United States continued to demand inspections while at the same time saying that even a completely clean inspections report would not deter the United States from direct intervention to topple Hussein. In other words: Comply with the rules, but we will bomb you anyway.
--Robert Jensen and Rahul Mahjan, Common Dreams
Bush reiterated the US claim that Saddam Hussein is a modern-day Hitler, declaring the UN was founded so that the “peace of the world” would never again be “destroyed by the will and wickedness of any man.” The Iraqi regime was, he said, “exactly the kind of aggressive threat the United Nations was born to confront.”
It does not take an abundance of critical judgment to perceive the outlandishness of such assertions. Iraq is an impoverished former colony, defeated in war and devastated by more than a decade of sanctions. Its defenses have been decimated since the Gulf War of 1991. The United States has waged non-stop war-diplomatic, economic and military-against the virtually defenseless country. It continues to bomb military and civilian targets in the north and south of Iraq on a nearly daily basis.
Bush speaks for the most powerful imperialist country in the world, armed to the teeth with the most advanced and deadly weapons of mass destruction. It has used its unchallenged military might to devastate far weaker and smaller countries, laying waste to Vietnam in the 1960s and 1970s, and attacking in the space of two decades a host of other states: Lebanon, Grenada, Libya, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan.
It presently has military forces deployed in dozens of locations around the world, and has spent the past year pounding Afghanistan-killing thousands of civilians and massacring hundreds of captured Taliban and Al Qaeda soldiers.
One of the defining features of the German Nazi regime was its virulent militarism and contempt for international law and world opinion. It is the Bush administration, in its use of military force as the basic component of foreign policy, that resembles, more than any other present-day government, the Hitler regime. Bush’s performance at the UN epitomized his government’s belligerence and disdain for international law.
The late Pakistani scholar Eqbal Ahmad, in his final book, "Terrorism: Theirs and Ours," points out that the Reagan administration mobilized the Muslim world to fight the "evil empire," as the Soviet Union was called:
"I've seen planeloads of them arriving from Algeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, even from Palestine where at that time Israel was supporting Hamas against Alshata(sp), Yassar Arafat's faction of the PLO. These people were brought in, given an ideology and told that armed struggle is virtuous, when the whole notion of Jihad as an international Pan-Islamic terrorist movement was born. The U.S. has spent billions in producing the Bin Ladens of our time. In 1986 I visited the camp they hit in Zahowar, Afghanistan. It was a CIA-sponsored camp."
Bush is going to keep moving ahead, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's preparing for war. It may all be for show.
It's getting more complicated with this move by Iraq to allow inspections. I don't know, and you don't know if that's "very reasonable" or not. It may be a deception to buy more time.
There is a lot of politics and behind-the-scenes strategy taking place, now. It's a chess game of moves and counter moves.
Saddam is the master at delaying and stalling. He will do anything to stay in power. You nor I do not know what the outcome will be. Sometimes a dogs bark can be just as effective as the bite.
What's amusing and sad is that people let their hatred of the United States blind them into either giving legitimacy or sympathy to a man who A) Killed and kills his own people. B)Uses chemicals to do so. C) Lets his people starve by using oil money for his regime instead of food and medicine, the money is there, he doesn't give it to his people. D) He is a dictator and kills and or imprisions anyone who opposes his policy or criticizes him. E) Is on record as wanting to be one of the only rulers in the mid east with nukes. F) Has attacked other nations in the past and wouldn't hesitate to do so and use those weapons if he had to to stay in power. G) Has failed meiserbly to live up to U.N proposisitions and essentially thumbed their nose at them for years, and we wonder why the U.N is obsolete, they're nuetered.
And yet there are those that still would give him sympathy or empathy. Says alot about their charachter and what they care about and whom they'll support.
See the time line posted below of his inspections game.
Notice the actions from feb of 98' to Oct of 98' Hmmm, anyone see a pattern ?. Nah Hussein's a great guy.
--Feb. 24, 1991: Gulf War ends; Kuwait is liberated Feb. 27.
--April 6, 1991: Iraq accepts U.N. resolution requiring it to end its weapons of mass destruction programs and allow for ongoing monitoring and verification of compliance.
--Oct. 29, 1997: Iraq demands that Americans on the U.N. Special Commission inspection team leave; the Americans leave temporarily but return Nov. 20.
--Jan. 13, 1998: Iraq temporarily withdraws cooperation, claiming that the inspection team had too many U.S. and British inspectors.
--Jan. 22, 1998: Iraq refuses inspection of presidential sites.
--Feb. 20-23, 1998: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan secures Iraq's cooperation and unrestricted access to inspectors.
--Oct. 31, 1998: Iraq ends all forms of cooperation with UNSCOM. UNSCOM withdraws.
--Nov. 14, 1998: Iraq allows inspections to resume.
--Dec. 16, 1998: UNSCOM removes all staff from Iraq after inspectors conclude Iraq is not fully cooperating. Four days of U.S. and British airstrikes follow.
--June 30, 1999: Richard Butler completes his two-year term as executive chairman of UNSCOM.
--Dec. 17, 1999: U.N. replaces UNSCOM with UNMOVIC, the U.N. Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission. Iraq rejects the resolution.
--March 1, 2000: Hans Blix assumes post of executive chairman of UNMOVIC.
--November 2000: Iraq rejects new weapons inspections proposals.
--July 5, 2002: In talks with Annan, Iraq rejects weapons inspections proposals.
--Aug. 1: In a letter to Annan, Iraq invites Blix to Iraq for technical discussions on remaining disarmament issues.
--Aug. 6: Annan writes to Iraqis pointing out that what they are proposing is at odds with U.N. resolutions and asks that Iraq accept inspections.
--Sept. 12: President Bush tells the United Nations it must rid the world of Saddam's biological, chemical and nuclear arsenals, or stand aside as the United States acts.
--Sept. 16: Iraq unconditionally accepts the return of U.N. weapons inspectors.
--Feb. 24, 1991: Gulf War ends; Kuwait is liberated Feb. 27.
--April 6, 1991: Iraq accepts U.N. resolution requiring it to end its weapons of mass destruction programs and allow for ongoing monitoring and verification of compliance.
--Oct. 29, 1997: Iraq demands that Americans on the U.N. Special Commission inspection team leave; the Americans leave temporarily but return Nov. 20.
--Jan. 13, 1998: Iraq temporarily withdraws cooperation, claiming that the inspection team had too many U.S. and British inspectors.
--Jan. 22, 1998: Iraq refuses inspection of presidential sites.
--Feb. 20-23, 1998: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan secures Iraq's cooperation and unrestricted access to inspectors.
--Oct. 31, 1998: Iraq ends all forms of cooperation with UNSCOM. UNSCOM withdraws.
--Nov. 14, 1998: Iraq allows inspections to resume.
--Dec. 16, 1998: UNSCOM removes all staff from Iraq after inspectors conclude Iraq is not fully cooperating. Four days of U.S. and British airstrikes follow.
--June 30, 1999: Richard Butler completes his two-year term as executive chairman of UNSCOM.
--Dec. 17, 1999: U.N. replaces UNSCOM with UNMOVIC, the U.N. Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission. Iraq rejects the resolution.
--March 1, 2000: Hans Blix assumes post of executive chairman of UNMOVIC.
--November 2000: Iraq rejects new weapons inspections proposals.
--July 5, 2002: In talks with Annan, Iraq rejects weapons inspections proposals.
--Aug. 1: In a letter to Annan, Iraq invites Blix to Iraq for technical discussions on remaining disarmament issues.
--Aug. 6: Annan writes to Iraqis pointing out that what they are proposing is at odds with U.N. resolutions and asks that Iraq accept inspections.
--Sept. 12: President Bush tells the United Nations it must rid the world of Saddam's biological, chemical and nuclear arsenals, or stand aside as the United States acts.
--Sept. 16: Iraq unconditionally accepts the return of U.N. weapons inspectors.
Yea for this week. Then he can get back to work on the bomb and killing Kurds.
Peter is needlessly argumentative. He makes up his opinions as he goes along. Instead of taking stand, he wheedles his way around an argument.
I'm through with him. Weenies like that make me tired.
Get some facts, get some discipline and take an honest stand, computer-boy.
College twerps....
ISRAEL TERRORIZES PALESTINIANS, TOO
While watching most major news networks, I have almost never heard the word "Palestinian" in a sentence without the word "terrorism." After you hear this for a while, the two words seem to naturally fit together, like "chocolate" and "vanilla." People begin to form automatic links in their minds. This is a dangerous association, one that the media seems to never stop whispering to us.
Having just returned from a monthlong trip in the West Bank, I witnessed terrorism of a whole different color -- Israeli state terrorism. The fact that most people aren't familiar with "state terrorism" goes to show that terrorism is defined by those who get away with it. I have seen houses of innocent families demolished by the Israeli army, ambulances shot at, water and electricity lines destroyed, and tanks firing on children.
I've seen Palestinians being randomly detained in the hot sun, threatened and kicked, all in the name of "security." The suicide bombings are not without cause. They don't happen because Palestinians hate all Jews. They are a direct result of 35 years of military rule.
Although I am strongly opposed to them, after witnessing the situation in the West Bank, where 70 percent unemployment is the norm, I can see how these bombers would feel they have nothing more to lose. They have grown up in neighborhoods that have been turned into prisons, where tanks rolling through the streets and the sounds of military loudspeakers blaring orders is as common as a trip to the mall here.
As long as America keeps funding Israel, as long as the occupation continues, there will be no end to suicide bombings. Desperation, in the end, is stronger than any military force.
--BROOKS ANDERSON, DULUTH
Stripped to its essence, what is George Bush's war-with-Iraq frenzy all about?
A president who "won" office with more than half a million less votes than Al Gore, and who was AWOL during his own military service (Boston Globe, 5-23-00), is brashly "mandating" sending America's youth to face violent death to implement a "regime change" that would make Iraq a servile supplier of oil, on U.S. energy-interest terms.
It's a smokescreened foreign policy extension of the corruption exemplified by the Enron scandal, having nothing to do with Saddam Hussein's behavior, but everything to do with
corporate greed.
And it would all be done via an attack every bit as illegal and immoral as Hitler's invasion of Poland!
If you find this mad travesty appalling -- and of greater ultimate harm to our nation and what it should properly stand for than the Vietnam debacle -- please speak out now.
Forces of reason and peace are quickly coming together to stop the slaughter before it starts. Oct. 26 will see an unprecedented outpouring of antiwar sentiment in Washington, D.C. Although announced just a few days ago, already scores of organizational endorsers have given their firm commitment to be there. Bus reservations are being filled across the country.
Recent opinion polls show a deep slide in backing for Bush's reckless policy.
The time is ripe for a popular reassertion of people's democracy, taking our nation back from the manipulative special interests that have held us all hostage in furtherance of their
selfish agenda.
As the first anniversary of 9/11 approaches, we have a right to mourn over a terrible tragedy.
But we also have a sacred duty to thwart those in power who've crassly seized upon our emotions to try to hijack the national purpose for their own narrow gain.
The world is correct in standing aghast over what's being proposed.
It's profoundly WRONG to ship off the highschoolers of a few months ago to engage in fierce house-to-house combat half a world away -- while the Iraqi people suffer mass death from our bombing on a genocidal scale -- just so a handful of sleazy fat cats
can superprofiteer even more.
Dubya, not with OUR kids you don't!!!
Simple solution to that, quit intentionally murdering people in cold blood and they'll stop calling it as it should be. If the shoe fits........
(ask Richard Ried, the shoeicide bomber)
"quit intentionally murdering people in cold blood and they'll stop calling it as it should be."
If not for their potential victims, at the very least for themselves.
There's no joy in watching a people go through a cultural meltdown.
Suffering doesn't make it right or justified. It's just base.
Rob, your relentless justification of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki mass murders of thousands of innocent noncombatants (including FAR more
children than both sides have claimed in the Middle East) renders your
remarks hypocritical in the extreme.
Is it not "national necessity" that motivates your defense of the greatest war crime in human history?!
Now, I'm not inflexible.
I'll gladly admit that Palestinian suicide bombing is wrong...
If you admit that what we did to Japanese mothers, their playing kids,
and old men...was also a crime, only worse, because of the scale involved, and because we really didn't have to do it to assure Japan's
defeat.
By the way, if and when we go to war against Saddam Hussein, do you think the whistling shrapnel will slice through HIS hide, or the soft flesh of COUNTLESS Iraqi civilians?
We would be going into fierce combat in MAJOR cities with very large populations.
I have to go to bed.
I suggest you do the same, and think about that prospect in the dark privacy of your room.
Good night.
Dennis,
You have hypocrisy down to an art form. You have constantly apologized for terrorism ad nauseum. Yes it's bad but, yes it's wrong, but, yes but, but but. We've been over Hiroshima/Nagasaki a million times. More people died in other battles that were for that same cause which was worthy in my book. Yet you don't say anything about them. 41 million civilians died in WW2. Because the people in Hiroshima/Nagasaki died all at once makes that worse ? Many more would have died without it and you know it or won't admit it out of blindness. Forget it, I'm done debating the bomb, it was 60 years ago and you weren't a 19 year old kid who would have had to take that piece of coral. You have no idea what it's like. You disagree with it, fine. The situations are quite different in many ways. If you want to debate the bomb take it over to the history board. Until then keep on a posting your own brand of sad hypocrisy. Have a good night.
Good God Dennis, you'd rather have 10,000 US soldiers die than than 100,000 Japanese civilians?
Mussharraf did not installed himself for life time Emperer b'coz there is no such kind of designation in Pakistan offcourse he is the president of Pakistan for next five years with a fuly functional Parliment and a Prime Minister going to be elected in Oct. 10, 2002.
Plus in the whole 55 years history of pakistan not even a single Pres. or PM could stay for his or her life time. :-)
Mushrraf cannot stop Freedom fighter in kashmir b'coz people of Pakistan don't want this and will not allow him. we have no intention what so ever to stop freedom fighters in Indian occupied kashmir. they have legitimate right to free their homeland and do whatever they can do to weaken indian occupation. they have the right to attack on indian malitry installation in Indian Occupied kashmir and kill indian army personnel. we will keep suporting their legitimate cause in diplomatic and political front. no one should have any doubt on this.
If Musharraf were overthrown, Islamic radicals could take over. And that could lead to some bad consequences, like radicals with their hands on Pakistan's nuclear weapons--Rick
you seems to have a very bad desease of nightmare :-))) LoL. I guess you are not alone lots of western adventurists have this desease, I remember I saw lots of hollywood movies much before 9-11 showing terrorist are blowing American skyscraper :-)) I think people like you are the good source of ideas for terrorist. these kind of people are dengerous for their own society and they must consult with doctors. :-)
One last thing for u that If you can't justify the killing of 6 months babies by Israeli animals and american support to all these brutality don't throw stone to others it just shows your weakness on your point of view.
I have never seen in any news channel or news paper not even on baised american media showing palestinian celebrating suicide bombimg offcourse i have seen lots of pic. and movie clips show palestinian are careeing bodies of infants and children murdered by Israeli Evil Forces and protesting on the streets lots of them pledging for revenge under the the deep sorrow and anger.
If a so-called israeli moderate cries after such kind of brutal crime it does not wash the crimes of Israeli evil force. the main task for those so-called moderate and crying Israeli is to stop their Gov. and malitry rather then showing crocodile tears on media :-)
Two simple questions:
Is or isn't the Israeli occupation a monstrous, evil imposition on
the Palestinians' right to self determination?
Is or isn't the unrelenting, Israeli refusal to grant Palestine freedom the root cause of virtually all "unpleasantries" in the
region?
Do you love freedom?
And liberty?
Then you better get consistent and support the Palestinians' struggle for justice.
Because even the "best" Israel has "offered" them (Ehud Barak to Yassir Arafat) was a total sham:
Continued Israeli sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, no mention of a "right of return" for a single refugee, of the settlements built illegally outside east Jerusalem in Israeli hands, of the 10-mile-wide Israeli buffer zone round "Palestine", of scarcely 46 per cent of the 22 percent of Palestine under negotiation to be given to Palestinians.
Under Sharon and Likud, of course, there would NEVER be anything even poorly resembling a genuine, independent Palestinian nation.
Just the perpetual oppression of the weak by the mighty, in accordance with the sick Zionist notion that God wills it so.
Rob, your constant, unswerving devotion to the cruel politics and philosophy of reaction have made me fully appreciate that the only difference between a rightwing Republican and an actual fascist
is what he manages to keep hidden and vague...until such time as
power relationships decisively shift, and it becomes acceptable and "safe" to openly espouse Gestapo "values".
THX, your Hiroshima/Nagasaki related question is moot, since objective reality would have made a Japanese surrender possible without the terrible atomic attacks.
The real question to ask is this, with an eye toward Bush's bellicose machinations:
"Is it right to sacrifice America's sons, and the civilians of Iraq,
to let Enron-style greedheads get their hands on another country's
oil?"
The grubby Palestinians and the trigger happy Israelis should keep their murderous hands off Jerusalem.
Jerusalem is an International city - sacred to 3 faiths. Extremists like the Palestinians or the Jews should not have exclusive control of it. They will just end up murdering each other and destroying the place.
Jerusalem should be run by an inter-faith elected council. It should be a city country with no affliation to either Israel or Palestine.
One thorny and contentitious issue removed. Onwards to a resolution.
THX, your Hiroshima/Nagasaki related question is moot....
It's not moot because you're answer would certianly tell us all a lot about you, your loyalties and your priorities.
....since objective reality would have made a Japanese surrender possible without the terrible atomic attacks.
Ask those that were serving in the Pacific what object reality was. I'm sure it's quite different than yours.
The IDF commanders and soldiers, who have killed or ordered killing of civilians can also easily be identified. There is plenty of proof. And there is no need for police. Let Israel turn over their criminals Peter Lefterov,
The custodian of Israel will never let it happen :-))) LoL
A desperate Palestinian blow himselfe in anger b'coz he just had to burry his 6 months old son/doughter, sis/bro or nephew who was shot dead by Israeli evil force. He has the right for revenge, his intention is not to kill civilian but to demonistrate his anger he take the step of suicide b'coz he has no choice he is armless he has no anti tank mesile to destroy those Isaeli tanks who come to kill their babies he has no anti aircraft mesiles to shoot down those american given F-16 who come to kill their babies palestinian don't have helis and aircrafts so that they can destroy Israeli malitry instalations in telaviv so what else they can do!!!?? its a human nature to protect them and their children and do whatever they can do even give their lives to protect their children one can not stop them.
"Mushrraf cannot stop Freedom fighter in kashmir b'coz people of Pakistan don't want this and will not allow him. we have no intention what so ever to stop freedom fighters in Indian occupied kashmir. they have legitimate right to free their homeland and do whatever they can do to weaken indian occupation."
What happened to the man who said the people of Kashmir should have the right to determine their direction? It appears you want them to make a particular decision, and you support that decision to be coerced under the threat of terrorism.
"they have the right to attack on indian malitry installation in Indian Occupied kashmir and kill indian army personnel. we will keep suporting their legitimate cause in diplomatic and political front. no one should have any doubt on this. "
You respect the spreading of terrorism and destabilization in the region. Instead of supporting some break in the cycle of war and tension, you only want it to stop when Kashmir is part of Pakistan. So you don't support Kashmiri self determination. For you there is only ONE decision they can make.
http://www.americaheldhostile.com/ed090702.shtml
This poem originally appeared on this board...
George Dumbshit Bush would whore his own mother for more oil profits. Come to think of it, his old man has probably already done that. Maybe that's why everyone says he's the ILLEGITIMATE president. Wouldn't it be funny if Bill Clinton turned out to be his real dad? Someone call Dionne Warwick --- QUICK! Meanwhile, the blowjobs continue in the Oval Office --- but this time it isn't plump little interns in blue dresses, it's overweight oil execs in cum-stained blue flannel pinstripes. The more things "change" the more they stay the same. Had enough? Then quit putting these BIRDS OF A FEATHER who fuck [us] together into public office. Chances are, when Pimp Bush decides to attack Iraq it'll be the exact date he attacked New York and DC last year --- wait and see. Pass out the invites, turn on CNN, and have a Super Bowl-style party for the 2nd Annual George Bush Terror-A-Thon!
This is DuaneBarry --- over and out.
Maybe that's why everyone says he's the ILLEGITIMATE president.
Only bitter Liberals say that.
Anyway, who loves ya Duane?
I'm new to this thread. What is a PPwc refugee?
PPWC = Pioneer Press Water Cooler.
It was a forum run by the St Paul Pioneer Press.
When they switched formats from WebX, we moved over here.
And we have difficulty believing anyone who says they're new.
Past experience shows that the same people return often with different names.
And anyone who is truly new can't stand to be around us for very long.
apple-314159
You have a number in your name.
Does that mean you are obsessed with:
Rape?
The Number 40? or
New Mexico?
LOL!
Apple isn't Cougar.
Apple is legit. I've seen the username in other threads for quite a while.
apple:
Have you ever dated a Miss America candidate?
there is a consensus among the people of kashmir to get liberate from indian occupation some minor group of them may not wanna be the part of pakistan BUT as far as freedom from indian occupation is concern they all are united in this one point agenda and put all their views aside Pakistan knows this fact and desire of kashmiri people and its kashmiri people and their legitimate right of self determination for which they are fighting and we are supporting and will keep supporting.
There cannot be peace and harmony when people are oppressed and deprived of freedom untill they are freed we don't want peace and harmony on the cost of freedom of kashmiri people b'coz we know it will not work.
There is a ban on Palestinian to acquire heavy weaponse to defend themselves plus UN is considered a hostage by US. US threaten them to stop funds IF UN will take any action against Israeli brutality :-) there have been hundred and thousands of latters written to UN and I beleive all have gone to dustbin :-)
Peter! there is a universal fact..
Power abuse by evils can only be stopped by power
let palestinian get weaponse like tanks, helis and jets even less then Israelis and THEN see how they eliminate this evil from earth forever!
http://www.dawn.com/2002/09/09/top17.htm
GAZA CITY, Sept 8: The Israeli army staged an incursion into autonomous Palestinian territory in the central Gaza Strip on Sunday, Palestinian security sources said.
Meanwhile, the Israeli army on Sunday arrested 17 Palestinians in the village of Yatta, south of the West Bank city of Al Khalil, Palestinian witnesses said.
IF palestinian whould have tanks too then Israelis never dare to enter into Palestinian territory.
Dennis,
First of all Dennis it's not a policy of reaction. I believe in being proactive. Hey good going Dennis, you're out of material, there's a Hitler reference and facism, originality at it's best. Cool dude. Oh you forgot the whole anti justice, capatalism, corporate, imperialism rant, blah blah blah.
Have you resorted to melding posts and just jumbling paragraphs ? You've got ZERO idea what you're talking about, you don't know me. You'd rather sit there and continually piss and moan about your own nation while doing very little. Air must be thin from your percieved moral high ground becuase not only are you running out of material (of your own) but you're losing it my friend.
HOW DID IRAQ GET ITS WEAPONS? WE SOLD THEM
By Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot
THE US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.
Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.
Classified US Defense Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.
The Senate committee's reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis -- the micro-organism that causes anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning.
One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987. Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989; the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers' City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986.
The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US.
The Senate report also makes clear that: 'The United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programs.'
This assistance, according to the report, included 'chemical warfare- agent precursors, chemical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings, chemical warfare filling equipment, biological warfare-related materials, missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment'.
Donald Riegle, then chairman of the committee, said: 'UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs.'
Riegle added that, between January 1985 and August 1990, the 'executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record'.
It is thought the information contained in the Senate committee reports is likely to make up much of the 'evidence of proof' that Bush and Blair will reveal in the coming days to justify the US and Britain going to war with Iraq. It is unlikely, however, that the two leaders will admit it was the Western powers that armed Saddam with these weapons of mass destruction.
However, Bush and Blair will also have to prove that Saddam still has chemical, biological and nuclear capabilities. This looks like a difficult case to clinch in view of the fact that Scott Ritter, the UN's former chief weapons inspector in Iraq, says the United Nations destroyed most of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and doubts that Saddam could have rebuilt his stocks by now.
According to Ritter, between 90% and 95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were destroyed by the UN. He believes the remainder were probably used or destroyed during 'the ravages of the Gulf War'.
Ritter has described himself as a 'card-carrying Republican' who voted for George W Bush. Nevertheless, he has called the president a 'liar' over his claims that Saddam Hussein is a threat to America.
Ritter has also alleged that the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons emits certain gases, which would have been detected by satellite. 'We have seen none of this,' he insists. 'If Iraq was producing weapons today, we would have definitive proof.'
He also dismisses claims that Iraq may have a nuclear weapons capacity or be on the verge of attaining one, saying that gamma-particle atomic radiation from the radioactive materials in the warheads would also have been detected by western surveillance.
The UN's former co-ordinator in Iraq and former UN under-secretary general, Count Hans von Sponeck, has also told the Sunday Herald that he believes the West is lying about Iraq's weapons program.
Von Sponeck visited the Al-Dora and Faluja factories near Baghdad in 1999 after they were 'comprehensively trashed' on the orders of UN inspectors, on the grounds that they were suspected of being chemical weapons plants. He returned to the site late in July this year, with a German TV crew, and said both plants were still wrecked.
'We filmed the evidence of the dishonesty of the claims that they were producing chemical and biological weapons,' von Sponeck has told the Sunday Herald. 'They are indeed in the same destroyed state which we witnessed in 1999. There was no trace of any resumed activity at all.'
--(Scottish) Herald, 9/8/02
Tanks, helis and jets can't be acquired illegaly BUT anti tank and anti aircraft mesiles can be provided to them as afgan were provided anti tank and anti aircraft mesiles by US during afghan war in 80's but this task need support of neighbouring states. neighbouring arab states of palestine are not doing their job. US is openly providing weaponse to Israel which is being used for the killing of innocent palestinian people but neighbouring arab state are not providing them modren weaponse so that they can defend themselves against Israeli brutality. Arab states have the right to do this and they should do it.
I am not in support of counter attack or revenge BUT i am strongly in support of that a nation atleast must have neccessory equipment by which they can effectivily defend themselves and palestinian are deprived of this right and suicide bombing is just a consequence of this deprivation. history proves that imbalance of power always created human catastrophe and provoked war.
UN has lost its credibility it has failed to implement all of its own resolutions on Palestine and Kashmir. UN can only implement those resolution for which US give permission to them. I guess you also aware of that what US has done with internation war crimes courts :-)
Rick - (PFID:f4405cc) - 04:18pm Sep 8, 2002 PST (# 611 of 621)
???? What? Clearly I'm missing something.
The 314159 is (sort of) the Greek number PI. (left out the decimal). I thought it was cute, 'apple-pi ' you know like as American as.....
However it seems to have backfired as most believe I'm a rep for Snapple, Fruit of the Loom or the Canadian Cider industry.
What? Clearly I'm missing something.
When we were at the St Paul Pioneer Press forum, we had an insane person by the username of Cougar that was fixated on the #40, New Mexico, his special Asian girl, Rape, & something about oppression.
Rick's just joking around with you.
Israel's "war on terror" has always been just a propagandized effort to shift blame from its 35-year-long, systematic, massively oppressive, cruelly brutal military occupation...
to the desperation tactics of a handful of Palestinian extremists who would almost certainly be civil politicians and parlimentarians if Israel had EVER given the Palestinian cause democratic space and a fair chance -- any chance -- to succeed by peaceful, universally accepted means.
Sharon darkly paints HIS victims as victimizers, while totally smokescreening and whitewashing Israel's prior, longstanding, ongoing crime against a whole people.
I never said jews are evil and eliminate them! I know these will be crazy words and it cannot be possible b'coz jews are not only in Israel I think they are more throughout the world then in Israel and also its imposible to eliminate a particular community from earth :-) I always said its Israel who has became an evil a state of evil by its own acts, its malitry is killing innocent women,children and infants rather fighting with a regular competent malitry force. they have became filthy, cowards and blood thirsty they have became used to of human blood. its the rsponsibility of civilized world either to
force them on the path of peace or eliminate this evil forever.
you are right its the power that can only protect the interest of a country not the international organiations we know this natural fact very well, you know no action can be taken by UN that harm the interests of world powers like US, Russia, China, France and Britian whether its right or wrong otherwise there will be a WW3 :-)). as far as UN role on preventing war is concern UN completely failed to accomplish this goal there were about 200 smaller and larger scale war throughout the world since 1945 and on most of them a smaller or weaker country was beaten by those five wolrd powers directly or indirectly to protect their interests :-)
Peter! US is asking for exception for its malitry personnel on International war crimes courts means US soldiers and malitry officials cannot be prosecuted on these courts whether they are guilty or not Otherwise as all of us know there will be WW3 :-)) LoL
Indian consilder 'Ram' as their god, Ram is the god of majority of hindus espacialy the upper cast Birahmins, some lower cast Dillits and Shoders also consider monkey, rats, sexual organs and imaginary monsters as their god.
LOL!
now, now Sid the kid - Naeem Siddiqui 9/12/02 11:06pm-
no need to denigrate Hindus to make your point - whatever it is. Remember OBL is venerated by numerous Muslims - surely a monkey is nobler than that cretin!!
little boy bush goes to the UN and tells the world that so-dumb-insane of eye-rack has weapons of mass destruction and that he brazenly violates security council resolutions. So he wants to go wack off so-dumb and pulverize the eye-rackis.
Hmmm - Israel also has WMD's and Israel is one of the most blatant ignorers of UN resolutions. We should take a crack at Adolf Sharon on our way to/back from eye-rack.
Hmmm -
My sex organs are...gourdlike.
I am not denigrating Hindus I am just telling facts Hindus do worship monkeys, rat and even sexual organs of human.
Israel also has WMD's and Israel is one of the most blatant ignorers of UN resolutions. We should take a crack at Adolf Sharon on our way to/back from eye-rack.---Naradar
India is also a blatant ignorers of UN resolutions and developing WMD's, never allowed international monitors and inspectors to visit India's neuclear installations. it also have bad relation with all of its immidiate neighbours (Pakistan, China, Bangladesh, Srilanka)
:-)
BUSH'S UN TRAVESTY
Hussein's Iraq has refused to fully comply with Security Council resolutions, but it is hardly alone in this. It is not a secret that Israel stands in violation of Security Council resolutions, among them SCR 242 calling for withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza. Thirty-five years later, the United States' response to that violation remains massive economic and military aid that allows Israel to remain defiant...
The question has never been whether Saddam is a nice guy, but rather how to deal with his regime. The U.S. strategy to date -- under Bush I, Clinton and Bush II -- has been to offer disincentives rather than incentives.
Beginning under the first President Bush and continuing in the Clinton years, U.S. demanded Iraqi compliance with weapons inspections but also said that even if inspections certified that Iraq to be clean of weapons of mass destruction, the economic sanctions might well stay in place "in perpetuity." In other words, the message to Hussein was: Comply with the rules, but your punishment will never end.
Finally, after manipulating the inspections process to provoke a confrontation by demanding the right to inspect sensitive sites, inspectors were pulled out on U.S. orders -- not evicted by Iraq -- in December 1998 right before the United States launched cruise missile strikes on Iraq. Not surprisingly, Iraq has not been eager to allow inspectors to return, especially after it was revealed that what Iraq had long contended was true -- the United States had used inspectors to spy on the Iraqi regime.
Bush I and Clinton had always talked "regime change," but after 9/11/01 Bush II upped the ante by stating openly that such change likely would come through a U.S. war. The United States continued to demand inspections while at the same time saying that even a completely clean inspections report would not deter the United States from direct intervention to topple Hussein. In other words: Comply with the rules, but we will bomb you anyway.
--Robert Jensen and Rahul Mahjan, Common Dreams
Bush reiterated the US claim that Saddam Hussein is a modern-day Hitler, declaring the UN was founded so that the “peace of the world” would never again be “destroyed by the will and wickedness of any man.” The Iraqi regime was, he said, “exactly the kind of aggressive threat the United Nations was born to confront.”
It does not take an abundance of critical judgment to perceive the outlandishness of such assertions. Iraq is an impoverished former colony, defeated in war and devastated by more than a decade of sanctions. Its defenses have been decimated since the Gulf War of 1991. The United States has waged non-stop war-diplomatic, economic and military-against the virtually defenseless country. It continues to bomb military and civilian targets in the north and south of Iraq on a nearly daily basis.
Bush speaks for the most powerful imperialist country in the world, armed to the teeth with the most advanced and deadly weapons of mass destruction. It has used its unchallenged military might to devastate far weaker and smaller countries, laying waste to Vietnam in the 1960s and 1970s, and attacking in the space of two decades a host of other states: Lebanon, Grenada, Libya, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan.
It presently has military forces deployed in dozens of locations around the world, and has spent the past year pounding Afghanistan-killing thousands of civilians and massacring hundreds of captured Taliban and Al Qaeda soldiers.
One of the defining features of the German Nazi regime was its virulent militarism and contempt for international law and world opinion. It is the Bush administration, in its use of military force as the basic component of foreign policy, that resembles, more than any other present-day government, the Hitler regime. Bush’s performance at the UN epitomized his government’s belligerence and disdain for international law.
--Editorial Board, World Socialist Website
Iraq is poor because Hussein keeps all the money for himself.
There were NOT "thousands" of civilians killed in Afghanistan.
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<groan and deep exhalation>>>>>>>>
OK, now I understand.
The late Pakistani scholar Eqbal Ahmad,
in his final book, "Terrorism: Theirs and Ours," points out
that the Reagan administration mobilized the Muslim world to fight the "evil empire," as the Soviet Union was called:
"I've seen planeloads of them arriving from Algeria, Sudan,
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, even from Palestine where at
that time Israel was supporting Hamas against Alshata(sp),
Yassar Arafat's faction of the PLO. These people were
brought in, given an ideology and told that armed struggle
is virtuous, when the whole notion of Jihad as an
international Pan-Islamic terrorist movement was born. The
U.S. has spent billions in producing the Bin Ladens of our
time. In 1986 I visited the camp they hit in Zahowar,
Afghanistan. It was a CIA-sponsored camp."
Peter:
Bush is going to keep moving ahead, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's preparing for war. It may all be for show.
It's getting more complicated with this move by Iraq to allow inspections. I don't know, and you don't know if that's "very reasonable" or not. It may be a deception to buy more time.
There is a lot of politics and behind-the-scenes strategy taking place, now. It's a chess game of moves and counter moves.
There is a lot of politics and behind-the-scenes strategy taking place....
Yeah, you think they're going to tell us what's going on?
Not the interesting stuff.
Peter,
Saddam is the master at delaying and stalling. He will do anything to stay in power. You nor I do not know what the outcome will be. Sometimes a dogs bark can be just as effective as the bite.
What's amusing and sad is that people let their hatred of the United States blind them into either giving legitimacy or sympathy to a man who A) Killed and kills his own people. B)Uses chemicals to do so. C) Lets his people starve by using oil money for his regime instead of food and medicine, the money is there, he doesn't give it to his people. D) He is a dictator and kills and or imprisions anyone who opposes his policy or criticizes him. E) Is on record as wanting to be one of the only rulers in the mid east with nukes. F) Has attacked other nations in the past and wouldn't hesitate to do so and use those weapons if he had to to stay in power. G) Has failed meiserbly to live up to U.N proposisitions and essentially thumbed their nose at them for years, and we wonder why the U.N is obsolete, they're nuetered.
And yet there are those that still would give him sympathy or empathy. Says alot about their charachter and what they care about and whom they'll support.
See the time line posted below of his inspections game.
Inspections timeline.
Notice the actions from feb of 98' to Oct of 98' Hmmm, anyone see a pattern ?. Nah Hussein's a great guy.
--Feb. 24, 1991: Gulf War ends; Kuwait is liberated Feb. 27.
--April 6, 1991: Iraq accepts U.N. resolution requiring it to end its weapons of mass destruction programs and allow for ongoing monitoring and verification of compliance.
--Oct. 29, 1997: Iraq demands that Americans on the U.N. Special Commission inspection team leave; the Americans leave temporarily but return Nov. 20.
--Jan. 13, 1998: Iraq temporarily withdraws cooperation, claiming that the inspection team had too many U.S. and British inspectors.
--Jan. 22, 1998: Iraq refuses inspection of presidential sites.
--Feb. 20-23, 1998: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan secures Iraq's cooperation and unrestricted access to inspectors.
--Oct. 31, 1998: Iraq ends all forms of cooperation with UNSCOM. UNSCOM withdraws.
--Nov. 14, 1998: Iraq allows inspections to resume.
--Dec. 16, 1998: UNSCOM removes all staff from Iraq after inspectors conclude Iraq is not fully cooperating. Four days of U.S. and British airstrikes follow.
--June 30, 1999: Richard Butler completes his two-year term as executive chairman of UNSCOM.
--Dec. 17, 1999: U.N. replaces UNSCOM with UNMOVIC, the U.N. Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission. Iraq rejects the resolution.
--March 1, 2000: Hans Blix assumes post of executive chairman of UNMOVIC.
--November 2000: Iraq rejects new weapons inspections proposals.
--July 5, 2002: In talks with Annan, Iraq rejects weapons inspections proposals.
--Aug. 1: In a letter to Annan, Iraq invites Blix to Iraq for technical discussions on remaining disarmament issues.
--Aug. 6: Annan writes to Iraqis pointing out that what they are proposing is at odds with U.N. resolutions and asks that Iraq accept inspections.
--Sept. 12: President Bush tells the United Nations it must rid the world of Saddam's biological, chemical and nuclear arsenals, or stand aside as the United States acts.
--Sept. 16: Iraq unconditionally accepts the return of U.N. weapons inspectors.
--Feb. 24, 1991: Gulf War ends; Kuwait is liberated Feb. 27.
--April 6, 1991: Iraq accepts U.N. resolution requiring it to end its weapons of mass destruction programs and allow for ongoing monitoring and verification of compliance.
--Oct. 29, 1997: Iraq demands that Americans on the U.N. Special Commission inspection team leave; the Americans leave temporarily but return Nov. 20.
--Jan. 13, 1998: Iraq temporarily withdraws cooperation, claiming that the inspection team had too many U.S. and British inspectors.
--Jan. 22, 1998: Iraq refuses inspection of presidential sites.
--Feb. 20-23, 1998: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan secures Iraq's cooperation and unrestricted access to inspectors.
--Oct. 31, 1998: Iraq ends all forms of cooperation with UNSCOM. UNSCOM withdraws.
--Nov. 14, 1998: Iraq allows inspections to resume.
--Dec. 16, 1998: UNSCOM removes all staff from Iraq after inspectors conclude Iraq is not fully cooperating. Four days of U.S. and British airstrikes follow.
--June 30, 1999: Richard Butler completes his two-year term as executive chairman of UNSCOM.
--Dec. 17, 1999: U.N. replaces UNSCOM with UNMOVIC, the U.N. Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission. Iraq rejects the resolution.
--March 1, 2000: Hans Blix assumes post of executive chairman of UNMOVIC.
--November 2000: Iraq rejects new weapons inspections proposals.
--July 5, 2002: In talks with Annan, Iraq rejects weapons inspections proposals.
--Aug. 1: In a letter to Annan, Iraq invites Blix to Iraq for technical discussions on remaining disarmament issues.
--Aug. 6: Annan writes to Iraqis pointing out that what they are proposing is at odds with U.N. resolutions and asks that Iraq accept inspections.
--Sept. 12: President Bush tells the United Nations it must rid the world of Saddam's biological, chemical and nuclear arsenals, or stand aside as the United States acts.
--Sept. 16: Iraq unconditionally accepts the return of U.N. weapons inspectors.
Yea for this week. Then he can get back to work on the bomb and killing Kurds.
Where have we seen this movie before ?