JEWISH VOICES AGAINST ISRAEL'S OCCUPATION OF PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES
The occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem is killing Palestinians and Israelis alike and destroying Israel from within. There can be no peace or security for either until Israel completely evacuates its settlements in Palestinian territories, ends its military occupation, and returns to its pre- 1967 borders. As Jews, we call upon Israel:
to agree to the immediate establishment of an international peacekeeping force in the occupied territories to protect civilians from violence by the Israeli military and settlers;
to cease building or expanding settlements as a first step toward their complete evacuation.
As Jews and U.S. taxpayers, we call upon the U.S. Government:
to suspend military aid to Israel, which is used to maintain the occupation, until Israel withdraws completely from the occupied territories;
to reduce economic aid to Israel by the amount spent on maintaining the settlements until all are evacuated;
to redirect this reduction of economic aid toward reconstructing the devastated infrastructure of Palestine.
We urge Israel to acknowledge that it bears significant historical responsibility for the dispossession of the Palestinian people, and to work toward a just solution to the plight of Palestinian refugees.
Finally, deeply distressed over the lives lost in desperate attacks by Palestinians, we call upon the Palestinian Authority to make every effort to curtail acts of violence against civilians in Israel.
Israel's security policies harm all the peoples of the Middle East and make Israel less secure, not more.
THE SETTLEMENTS MUST GO.
THE OCCUPATION MUST END.
THERE CAN BE NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE.
This ad, paid for by more than 1045 contributors, is part of an ongoing campaign. Join our efforts. Visit our website www.jvao.org or write us.
This is an abridged version of a more comprehensive statement written by Jewish Voices Against the Occupation (JVAO). The full text and its signers can be seen on www.jvao.org or received from JVAO, P.O. Box 11606, Berkeley, CA 94712.
Editor's Note: We believe that the killing of innocent people is wrong, in all cases. Thus, we cannot condone the use of terrorism by some extreme Palestinian groups, especially prevalent during the 1970s. That being said, however, it is necessary to examine the context in which such incidents occurred.
We hear lots about Palestinian terrorism. How about the Israeli record?
"The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state - indeed, long before - including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970's, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on." Noam Chomsky, "Blaming The Victims," ed. Said and Hitchens.
Terrorism - continued
"However much one laments and even wishes somehow to atone for the loss of life and suffering visited upon innocents because of Palestinian violence, there is still the need, I think, also to say that no national movement has been so unfairly penalized, defamed, and subjected to disproportionate retaliation for its sins as has the Palestinian.
The Israeli policy of punitive counterattacks (or state terrorism) seems to be to try to kill anywhere from 50 to 100 Arabs for every Jewish fatality. The devastation of Lebanese refugee camps, hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, and orphanages; the summary arrests, deportations, house destructions, maimings, and torture of Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza..these, and the number of Palestinian fatalities, the scale of material loss, the physical, political and psychological deprivations, have tremendously exceeded the damage done by Palestinians to Israelis." Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."
The U.S. Government and media bias on terrorism in the Middle East
"It is simply extraordinary and without precedent that Israel's history, its record - from the fact that it..is a state built on conquest, that it has invaded surrounding countries, bombed and destroyed at will, to the fact that it currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law - is simply never cited, never subjected to scrutiny in the U.S. media or in official discourse...never addressed as playing any role at all in provoking 'Islamic terror.'" Edward Said in "The Progressive." May 30, 1996.
We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.
We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.
We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.
We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.
The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.
--Statement signed by 491 IDF reserve officers and enlisted men
Zionism's ultimate, stated, objectively genocidal goal is to make Israel (including the Occupied Territories) an exclusively Jewish land from which Arabs and Palestinians would be driven.
Even though they've ancestrally lived there since ancient times, while most Jews in Israel came from Europe or elsewhere, or are the descendants thereof.
Rob wants us to think that a recent, retaliatory tactic, however unpleasant, employed by a certain faction fighting to avoid the ethnic cleansing of its people...is WORSE than the neo-Hitlerian, supremacist philosophy that -- incredibly -- has hijacked the worthy Jewish religion and cause.
Zionism is a uniquely Jewish variation of traditional colonialism and its typically brutal means of conquest and control.
But it's NOT an integral part of Jewishness, as some critics of the 35-year-old, vicious occupation of Palestinian lands seem to think.
It's a relatively modern imposition, rejected as unworkable, wrong, and cruel by countless Jews within Israel and around the world.
Jews have always been, and remain today, perhaps the single greatest ethnic body infusing progressive, enlightened thought and action in political affairs, everywhere.
The Israeli people are deeply divided today. Opinion polls actually show a majority favoring a free and unitary Palestinian state.
Sharon's policy is untenable, and it will not stand.
Forces for compromise, tolerance, and an ultimate solution to "the Palestinian question" are growing stronger, made so by the bloody unviability of Zionist extremism and the state terrorism it commits Israel and Jewry to.
Which is such an affront to Jewish sensibilities that appreciate that Nazi-emulating policy is an abomination for Jews to follow.
Sharon and his Likud hardliners, however mighty their tanks and Apaches make them seem, are actually rather weak and quite vulnerable.
Despite their internal support, and defacto backing from outside reactionaries, a different reality will eventually emerge inside Israel.
Then, and only then, can Israel and a newly-established Palestine live together in harmony and peace.
It's that positive eventuality that we all sould be striving toward.
Zionism's ultimate, stated, objectively genocidal goal is to make Israel (including the Occupied Territories) an exclusively Jewish land from which Arabs and Palestinians would be driven.
Where's the proof comrade ? I have quotes of Palestinain leaders and prominent figures stating the goal of not wanting Israel to exist. So some links would be great of leaders or people in power who have said so.
Although just yesterday you were posting ad nauseum about Jewish groups calling for an end to Israel's methods. DO YOU HAVE ANY LINKS TO PALESTINIAN SIGHTS CALLING FOR AN END TO SUICIDE BOMBING ? I doubt it. If you do great, I won't hold my breath.
Naeem said
"Israel is itself a fault, it should have not been and now it must n not be!" Â Â
Seems like you have company, Naeem's statement above is just another of his racist anti semitic statements, that and his holocaust commnents are the exact kind of people who are on the Palestinian side. You've alligned yourself with the Palestinian equivalent of the S.S or the KKK. Your silence contiunues to be telling.
1. "The existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight     against Zionism and for Arab unity" - Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and member of the PLO Executive Council (1977)
2. "On no accounts will the Palestinians accept part of Palestine and call it a Palestinian state, while forfeiting the remaining areas which are called the State of     Israel." - Rafiq Najshah, PLO representative in Saudi Arabia (June 9, 1980)
3. "The Struggle with the Zionist enemy is not a struggle about Israel's borders, but about Israel's existence. We will never agree to anything less than the return of     all our land and the establishment of the independent state." - Bassam Abu Sharif, PLO spokesman (May 31, 1986)
You've alligned yourself with the Palestinian equivalent of the S.S or the KKK. Your silence contiunues to be telling---Luv2Fly
While you are talking about to eliminate palestinian from the area you have alligned yourself with Israeli monsters and animals like sheron, Barak e.t.c. your cacophony in favour of Israeli evilness is the proof of this.
You're an ignorant racist pig. Have a nice day--Luv2Fly
and you are an ignorent fanatic moron american pig. have no roots no values and no justification of yourself
"The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand.....the bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos.....Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight...This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more......Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered (in El Salvador and Guatemala, and Algeria, and Sarajevo)...but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport." (Chris Hedges, Gaza Diary, Harper's Mag)
United Nations High Commission for Human Rights (8-16 November 2000):
"..the injuries being sustained, including by young people, could only be consistent with a military response which was both excessive and inappropriate. With only minor regional variations, this pattern was, said the observers, repeated in different locations throughout the affected areas...
A high percentage of the injuries...have been to the upper part of their body, including a large number of eye injuries, some caused by the firing of "rubber" bullets at close range. The result is often the loss of an eye, but can also be severe brain damage or death...
A 15-year-old, now a parapalegic....a 14-year-old wounded in the arm and leg...a classmate had been shot and blinded in both eyes....
During just the 6 week period of the Commission for Human Rights study "...86 Palestinian children had been killed and over 3,000 injured, two to three hundred of whom, it is estimated, will have permanent disabilities."
(During the period of the study...there was AN AVERAGE OF 68 PALESTINIAN CHILDREN KILLED, BLINDED, PERMANENTLY MAMED OR INJURED EVERY DAY, although you won't see that reported in the U.S. media.)
Res 469 (May 20, 80): Strongly deplored Israel's failure to observe the Council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Res 471 (June 5, 80): Expressed deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Res 476 (June 30, 80): Reiterated that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'.
Res 478 (Aug 20, 80): 'Censured in the strongest terms' Israel for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'basic law'.
Res 484 (Dec 19, 80): Declared it imperative Israel re-admit two Palestinian mayors.
Res 487 (June 19, 81): Strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Res 497 (Dec 17, 81): Decided Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demanded that Israel rescind its decision forthwith.
Res 498 (Dec 18, 81): Called on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Res 501 (Feb 25, 82): Called on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Res 508 (June 6, 82): Demanded Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and un-conditionally from Lebanon.
Res 515 (July 29, 82): Demanded Israel lift its seige of Beirut and allow in food.
Res 517 (Aug 4, 82): Censured Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demanded Isreal withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Res 518 (Aug 12, 82): Demanded Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Res 520 (Sep 17, 82): Condemned Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Res 573 (Oct 4, 85): Condemned Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO Headquarters.
Res 587 (Sep 23, 86): Took note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urged all parties to withdraw.
Res 592 (Dec 8, 86): Strongly deplored the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Res 605 (Dec 22, 87): Strongly deplored Israel's policies and practices denying human rights of Palestinians.
Res 607 (Jan 5, 88): Called on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requested it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Res 608 (Jan 14, 88): Deeply regreted that Israel had defied the UN and deported Palestinian civilians.
Res 636 (July 6, 89): Deeply regreted the Israeli deportation of Palestinians.
Res 641 (Aug 30, 89): Deplored Israel's continuous deportation of Palestinians.
Res 672 (Oct 12, 90): Condemned Israel for violence against Palestinians at Jerusalem's Haram Al-Sharif.
Res 673 (Oct 24, 90): Deplored Israel's refusal to cooperate with the UN.
Res 681 (Dec 20, 90): Deplored Israel's resumption of deportation of Palestinians.
Res 694 (May 24, 91): Deplored Israel's deportation of Palestinians and called on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Res 726 (Jan 1, 92): 'Strongly condemned' Israel's decision to resume deportation of Palestinians from 'Palestinian territories... including Jerusalem.'
Res 799 (Dec 19, 92): Deplored Israel's mass deportation of some 400 Palestinians and called for thir immediate return.
(10) Should the U.S. adopt a more "even-handed" approach to Arab and Israeli relations?
The occupation of Palestine continues unabated, where Ariel Sharon appears to be pursuing a policy of destroying everything of value to the people. The relentless assaults, which have included the assassination of Palestinians who are "suspected" of terrorist acts, carried out with F-16s and Apache helicopters, often including demolishing homes that are occupied by family members, have appalled and horrified the civilized world -- yet the Bush administration does next to nothing. Is it any surprise that the Arab world despises our own government?
Dennis's concern for the Palistinians is probably more genuine than most of the Arab world's.
Countries around the region have been herding and shuffling them for years. From what I've heard, they are treated horrendously in Lebanon.
Heaven help them if they are ever driven out of the West Bank and into the hands of their Muslim bretheran who use their supposed concern for them as a way to show their hatred of Israel.
11,500 people marched against the proposed Iraq war in Portland, Oregon, yesterday.
1.5 million took to the streets in Italy.
Australians demonstrated their opposition in large, spirited numbers the day before.
Today will see additional rallies elsewhere, with still more tomorrow.
Letters to newspaper editors and calls to House and Senate offices are running almost exclusively, massively against Bush's stated intention.
Everyone knows there's a double lie driving what would make our country as much of an aggressor as the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor.
It's all about getting at Iraq's oil, and a fabricated fear campaign is being used to hide that reality.
Bush also benefits from war talk pre-empting needed, critical discussion of his failed economic policies, and of the corporate sleaze of Enron-style crony capitalism.
When those in power -- with clear allegiances to the worst special interests -- plod ahead with obviously wrong policies, no matter what...what are the people to do?
We can't let them sacrifice our children (and civilians in several foreign countries) in endless wars undertaken for global dominance.
We can't permit them to pile killing contradiction upon contradiction on our economic future, threatening the complete collapse that's hinted at by a stock market that just can't find a healthy footing.
The only answer is protest, protest, and still more protest: in all forums and venues, and especially in the street.
They've got the military might, but we've got the power of virtually all of humanity saying no to permanent war for imperialistic hegemony and unseemly profit.
Our combined voice is louder than the F-16s and the Apaches.
Another ignorant statement from the resident racist Naeem.
BTW The dry cleaner called, your S.S uniform is ready to be picked up. and they were unable to get the chocolate stains out of your childrens Hitler youth brown shirts.
little boy bush and his gang of incompetent hate(war)mongers loudly thump their chests at the perfidy of so-dumb-insane gassing civilian Kurds. What an diabolical man , they proclaim - so evil we will have to send our 18 and 19 year olds to depose hiam - and help win the elections this year!
Here we have Adolf Sharon and the Israeli mafia killing innocent civilians in Palestine. We suspect Palestinian soldiers have wandered into the midst of civilians and we really think they are terrorists. So we will wipe out all the civilians - say the Naziesque Jews of Israel.
I guess the Israelis will now just sit back and wait for the next suicide bomber from Palestine to vaporize a couple of dozen Jews.
The Arrow missile defence Israel is deploying - paid for with my tax money and the sweat of millions of unemployed, hardworking Americans - how effective is it against the bubonic plague released by a suicide plaguer woth assistance from so-dumb-insane??
BTW The dry cleaner called, your S.S uniform is ready to be picked up. and they were unable to get the chocolate stains out of your childrens Hitler youth brown shirts.---Luv2Fly
You need to join your senate those dumb asses are desperatly waiting for another moron..:-)))
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- Pakistan has successfully test-fired a medium-range nuclear-capable ballistic missile, its second test within five days, defense officials have said.
This is the right way to defend ourselves from bullies of the world like India and Israel and arabs should follow the same path to tackle Israel
Pakistan should stick to fighting the AQ - do the job you are paid for.
What the hell have the Arabs done with the Palestinians anyway. Before Israel came into existence, was there a nation of Palestine ? The Syrians, Jordanians have all screwed the Palestinians for centuries. In fact, if one travels to the prosperous Arab states like UAE , the locals despise the Palestinians as menial workers - the same treatment the Turks receive in Germany.
Israel was right to kick the butt of the Arabs - how many times now? It sure is not scared of the puny Arabs any more. If only Israel would make peace with Palestinians , my tax money can go to bettering Americans who sorely need it these days.
Pakis - back to dying for the US in pursuit of AQ.
"This is the right way to defend ourselves from bullies of the world like India and Israel and arabs should follow the same path to tackle Israel."
What way are you referring to?
What is accomplished by these missle test-firings?
Naradar's right. Most of the Arab world doesn't give a damn about the Palistinians. What steps have they taken to broker peace in Israel and help the Palistinians build a home? Do they do anything besides give weapons and fund suicide bombings and exploit the Palistinians as a way to strike at Israel?
If large numbers of Palistianians became refugees they would stand a better chance being welcomed in the United States than among their own neighbors.
As you belong to a country where your fellow bajrangi moron love to burn alive innocent men, women, children and even unborn babies and consider it as their holy duty by their monkey gods and you are preaching humanity here!!! :-)) LoL
its your country who keep harping and crying to US that we are kicking your butts and have no guts and dare to fight with us despite continious cacophony of war and having an edge on malitry power :-)
you indian keep crying you are born to cry :-))) LoL
You see we are doing what we think right for us we are acquiring WoMD we are arming ourselves b'coz its the only way to defend ourselves from rogue nations like india. and we don't care your Uncle Same who itself have thousands of WoMD and used those weaponse too and wants others not to get these weaponse!!! US has no moral right to ask anyone not to acquire WoMD, first they should destroy their own WoMD and then ask someone else :-)
Pakistan should stick to fighting the AQ - do the job you are paid for.---Naradar
Well! we don't give our air basis and logestic support on charity! offcourse your country can give it on charity to US as they offered after 9/11 without asking by US but your Uncle Sam kicked away your offer :-)) you indian have the eternal habbit of licking the butts of american :-))) LoL
US must pay for all those facilities they are using otherwise these american will be dieing like rats in afganistan as they were in vietnam :-) you know last day afghan tribes killed one more american soldier and injured two....these figures could be 200 and 2000 if we did not help them.
Most of the Arab world doesn't give a damn about the Palistinians. What steps have they taken to broker peace in Israel and help the Palistinians build a home?---Rick.
you are quite right arabs are not doing their job they should provide heavy weaponse like anti aircraft mesiles, tanks, helis, jets e.t.c to palestinian so that palestinian could defend themselves if palestinain would have those weaponse Israel never dare to enter into gaza and west bank and jut shouting and crying with its border.
US is funding and giving heavy weaponse to Israel why not arabs are doing the same for palestinian!!!???
its not the fault of Naradar! its the fault of his origination where people worship monkey and love to convert the people into roast. these kind of ridiculous statements can only be expected from these clue less monkey brained people.
heh, heh - yes we Hindus worship what looks like strange Gods. My favorite is the Elephant God. Strange that this faith seems to glue together millions of impoverished and desperate folks. Something to be said about Marx and his religion is the opiate of the masses quip. And yes , the subcontinent has been ravaged by extremists of all types.
But we in India have a larger Islamic population than Pakistan ( or almost equal) and the Muslims in India do not go flying planes into buildings or asking for the West to be razed into ashes. Reality is that in pockets of India, the Muslims get the crap beaten ot of them .
Islam has been overtaken by extremism and its own clergy and leadersip will have to take their religion back.
The Palestinians however are not waging their war against Israel as a religious war alone - it is a genuine struggle to survive as a people. That is the only aspect I have empathy and sympathy for.
I saw a Hindu temple last week, right in the heart of Chinatown in Kuala Lumpur. The Thaipusam pilgirmage begins from there. I could hear the drumming from the street, but I didn't go in. Now I wish I did. I saw a Hindu service in Singapore. Mystical and a bit disconcerting to a westerner.
"it is a genuine struggle to survive as a people. That is the only aspect I have empathy and sympathy for. "
I think genuine struggles require more than victory. You have to hold on to your humanity. Should the Palistinians prevail, their victory will be hollow.
But we in India have a larger Islamic population than Pakistan--Naradar
Never claim this in front of your bajrangi fellow countrymen they will burn you alive b'coz they show much lesser figure for muslims in india :-))
Is that a missile silo in your pic?? Do you have the GPS coordinates for it?--apple
its not the messile silo its a historical monument of our founding father Mohammad Ali Jinnah who struggled against British colonialism in subcontinent and liberate our beloved country from British slavery.
there is no need of any GPS coordinates its situated in the world's 4rth largest city Karachi :-)
Last week, as I waited for my flight out of Hong Kong, passengers were boarding an aircraft next to our gate bound for Denpasar.
I was tired and I couldn't recall exactly where Denpasar was. I was reminded over the weekend.
I read in the New York Times over the weekend that before the bombing, Bali had a reputation as a place where Hindus and Muslims lived in harmony. It had a thriving tourist industry.
I guess there are groups of people in this world who cannot accept that. Two hundred people are dead and airlines have added flights because people cannot get out fast enough.
Many of the people I saw getting on the plane were probably heading to Denpasar for a weeks vacation.Hope none of them were hurt in the bombing, but it's certainly possible. I hear there's good surfing, so the Australians probably liked it.
I've been reading your posts over the past few days. It's disheartening.
Pakistan is a troubled nation that is torn by violence and a bitter border conflict. It cries out for enlightened leadership among its young men and women in all segments of society to build its future.
Based on what I read that I hope that among those future leaders will not be the name Naeem Siddiqui.
Pakistan is a troubled nation that is torn by violence and a bitter border conflict.---Rick
Pakistan is not a troubled nation internally. people here are living very peacefully and harmoniously despite the American's war against the muslims of Afghanistan and Iraq. offcourse we have very dengerous border conflict with India, but a country can have bitter border conflicts with a villain neighbours like India, Pakistan have very Good relations with all of its neighbours (middle east countries,Iran, China, Afghanistan and central asian countries) except India! it means the problem is India not pakistan b'coz its India who have bad relations with all its neighbours like Pakistan, China, Bangladesh and Srilanka all these countries are fed up of Indians mischievous attitude.
Tell that to families of the Christians who have been slaughtered in the last year in Pakistan.---Rick
These are just crimnal actitvities keep happenning in any country, no country on the earth is 100% pure of crimnals not even US or some very prosperious countries in europ. I have read lots of news about US telling a person enter into market and killed many people, an angry student enters into his school and kill many of his teachers and fellows e.t.c
It's not Switzerland ---Rick
you are right! Pakistan is Pakistan its certainly not Switzerland, we are good in our own and we don't need to compare us with any one else!
Oh my. And the sky is what color --- Luv2Fly
as usual blue, some time there is beautfull coulds with lovely rain! winter is comming so the fun of snow fall is also comming! :-)
The following is about Korea, but the logic can be applied to many other nations....
Unfree and totalitarian regimes like North Korea lie and always will lie, for two simple reasons. One:    Without a free press and a political opposition, they can. And two: They    must, because their system does not work and would collapse were    their people free and able to speak freely. Second, appeasement — in    the past, now, and for all time — only encourages thugs and killers, and    proves far more dangerous and costly in the long run than either    preemption or early resolute opposition (in the manner in which Israel    took out the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981, or we pondered the same in    1994 in North Korea).  Â
Yeah but their not being killed simply because of their religion.---THX 1138
Crime is Crime no matter what would be the reason! whether its religion or any other thing.
The following is about Korea, but the logic can be applied to many other nations....----apple
will it not be batter for american to be within their skin and let these countries and their neighbours alone so that they can resolve their issues by themselves either by war or by peace :-) US does nothing good on international issues BUT to furthur complicate the situations for both the people in the region and itself too!
Crime is Crime no matter what would be the reason! whether its religion or any other thing.
Not quite. Was the Naxi Regime merely committing a crime by killing millions of Jews?
US does nothing good on international issues........
We're a nation made up of people just like any other nation. People do make mistakes but people can also do amazing things. To say the US does nothing good on international isues is ignorant at best, plain stupid at worst.
JEWISH VOICES AGAINST ISRAEL'S OCCUPATION OF PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES
The occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem is killing Palestinians and Israelis alike and destroying Israel from within. There can be no peace or security for either until Israel completely evacuates its settlements in Palestinian territories, ends its military occupation, and returns to its pre- 1967 borders. As Jews, we call upon Israel:
As Jews and U.S. taxpayers, we call upon the U.S. Government:
We urge Israel to acknowledge that it bears significant historical responsibility for the dispossession of the Palestinian people, and to work toward a just solution to the plight of Palestinian refugees.
Finally, deeply distressed over the lives lost in desperate attacks by Palestinians, we call upon the Palestinian Authority to make every effort to curtail acts of violence against civilians in Israel.
Israel's security policies harm all the peoples of the Middle East and make Israel less secure, not more.
THE SETTLEMENTS MUST GO.
THE OCCUPATION MUST END.
THERE CAN BE NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE.
This ad, paid for by more than 1045 contributors, is part of an ongoing campaign. Join our efforts. Visit our website www.jvao.org or write us.
This is an abridged version of a more comprehensive statement written by Jewish Voices Against the Occupation (JVAO). The full text and its signers can be seen on www.jvao.org or received from JVAO, P.O. Box 11606, Berkeley, CA 94712.
Berkeley.......Enough said.
THE HISTORY OF TERRORISM IN THE REGION
Editor's Note: We believe that the killing of innocent people is wrong, in all cases. Thus, we cannot condone the use of terrorism by some extreme Palestinian groups, especially prevalent during the 1970s. That being said, however, it is necessary to examine the context in which such incidents occurred.
We hear lots about Palestinian terrorism. How about the Israeli record?
"The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state - indeed, long before - including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970's, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on." Noam Chomsky, "Blaming The Victims," ed. Said and Hitchens.
Terrorism - continued
"However much one laments and even wishes somehow to atone for the loss of life and suffering visited upon innocents because of Palestinian violence, there is still the need, I think, also to say that no national movement has been so unfairly penalized, defamed, and subjected to disproportionate retaliation for its sins as has the Palestinian.
The Israeli policy of punitive counterattacks (or state terrorism) seems to be to try to kill anywhere from 50 to 100 Arabs for every Jewish fatality. The devastation of Lebanese refugee camps, hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, and orphanages; the summary arrests, deportations, house destructions, maimings, and torture of Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza..these, and the number of Palestinian fatalities, the scale of material loss, the physical, political and psychological deprivations, have tremendously exceeded the damage done by Palestinians to Israelis." Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."
The U.S. Government and media bias on terrorism in the Middle East
"It is simply extraordinary and without precedent that Israel's history, its record - from the fact that it..is a state built on conquest, that it has invaded surrounding countries, bombed and destroyed at will, to the fact that it currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law - is simply never cited, never subjected to scrutiny in the U.S. media or in official discourse...never addressed as playing any role at all in provoking 'Islamic terror.'" Edward Said in "The Progressive." May 30, 1996.
--Jews for Justice in the Middle East
WE REFUSE
We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.
We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.
We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.
We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.
The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.
--Statement signed by 491 IDF reserve officers and enlisted men
It has all been Israel's fault, always--Bill
Israel is itself a fault, it should have not been and now it must not be!
Zionism's ultimate, stated, objectively genocidal goal is to make Israel (including the Occupied Territories) an exclusively Jewish land from which Arabs and Palestinians would be driven.
Even though they've ancestrally lived there since ancient times, while most Jews in Israel came from Europe or elsewhere, or are the descendants thereof.
Rob wants us to think that a recent, retaliatory tactic, however unpleasant, employed by a certain faction fighting to avoid the ethnic cleansing of its people...is WORSE than the neo-Hitlerian, supremacist philosophy that -- incredibly -- has hijacked the worthy Jewish religion and cause.
Zionism is a uniquely Jewish variation of traditional colonialism and its typically brutal means of conquest and control.
But it's NOT an integral part of Jewishness, as some critics of the 35-year-old, vicious occupation of Palestinian lands seem to think.
It's a relatively modern imposition, rejected as unworkable, wrong, and cruel by countless Jews within Israel and around the world.
Jews have always been, and remain today, perhaps the single greatest ethnic body infusing progressive, enlightened thought and action in political affairs, everywhere.
The Israeli people are deeply divided today. Opinion polls actually show a majority favoring a free and unitary Palestinian state.
Sharon's policy is untenable, and it will not stand.
Forces for compromise, tolerance, and an ultimate solution to "the Palestinian question" are growing stronger, made so by the bloody unviability of Zionist extremism and the state terrorism it commits Israel and Jewry to.
Which is such an affront to Jewish sensibilities that appreciate that Nazi-emulating policy is an abomination for Jews to follow.
Sharon and his Likud hardliners, however mighty their tanks and Apaches make them seem, are actually rather weak and quite vulnerable.
Despite their internal support, and defacto backing from outside reactionaries, a different reality will eventually emerge inside Israel.
Then, and only then, can Israel and a newly-established Palestine live together in harmony and peace.
It's that positive eventuality that we all sould be striving toward.
Dennis,
Where's the proof comrade ? I have quotes of Palestinain leaders and prominent figures stating the goal of not wanting Israel to exist.
So some links would be great of leaders or people in power who have said so.
Although just yesterday you were posting ad nauseum about Jewish groups calling for an end to Israel's methods. DO YOU HAVE ANY LINKS TO PALESTINIAN SIGHTS CALLING FOR AN END TO SUICIDE BOMBING ? I doubt it. If you do great, I won't hold my breath.
Naeem said
Seems like you have company, Naeem's statement above is just another of his racist anti semitic statements, that and his holocaust commnents are the exact kind of people who are on the Palestinian side. You've alligned yourself with the Palestinian equivalent of the S.S or the KKK. Your silence contiunues to be telling.
Naeem,
You're an ignorant racist pig. Have a nice day.
1. "The existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight
    against Zionism and for Arab unity" - Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and member of the PLO Executive Council (1977)
2. "On no accounts will the Palestinians accept part of Palestine and call it a Palestinian state, while forfeiting the remaining areas which are called the State of
    Israel." - Rafiq Najshah, PLO representative in Saudi Arabia (June 9, 1980)
3. "The Struggle with the Zionist enemy is not a struggle about Israel's borders, but about Israel's existence. We will never agree to anything less than the return of
    all our land and the establishment of the independent state." - Bassam Abu Sharif, PLO spokesman (May 31, 1986)
http://www.middleeastfacts.com/
You've alligned yourself with the Palestinian equivalent of the S.S or the KKK. Your silence contiunues to be telling---Luv2Fly
While you are talking about to eliminate palestinian from the area you have alligned yourself with Israeli monsters and animals like sheron, Barak e.t.c. your cacophony in favour of Israeli evilness is the proof of this.
You're an ignorant racist pig. Have a nice day--Luv2Fly
and you are an ignorent fanatic moron american pig. have no roots no values and no justification of yourself
TROOPS VS. KIDS
"..the injuries being sustained, including by young people, could only be consistent with a military response which was both excessive and inappropriate. With only minor regional variations, this pattern was, said the observers, repeated in different locations throughout the affected areas...
A high percentage of the injuries...have been to the upper part of their body, including a large number of eye injuries, some caused by the firing of "rubber" bullets at close range. The result is often the loss of an eye, but can also be severe brain damage or death...
A 15-year-old, now a parapalegic....a 14-year-old wounded in the arm and leg...a classmate had been shot and blinded in both eyes....
During just the 6 week period of the Commission for Human Rights study "...86 Palestinian children had been killed and over 3,000 injured, two to three hundred of whom, it is estimated, will have permanent disabilities."
(During the period of the study...there was AN AVERAGE OF 68 PALESTINIAN CHILDREN KILLED, BLINDED, PERMANENTLY MAMED OR INJURED EVERY DAY, although you won't see that reported in the U.S. media.)
UN Security Council Resolutions on Israel since 1948
Res 101 (Nov 24, 53): Expressed 'strongest censure' of Israel for the first time because of its raid on Qibya.
Res 106 (Mar 29, 55): Condemned Israel for Ghazzah raid.
Res 111 (Jan 19, 56): Condemned Israel for raid on Syria that killed 56 people.
Res 127 (Jan 22, 58): Recommended Israel to suspend its no-man's zone in Jerusalem.
Res 162 (Apr 11, 61): Urged Israel to comply with UN decisions.
Res 171 (Apr 9, 62): Determined 'flagrant violation' by Israel in its attack on Syria.
Res 228 (Nov 25, 66): Censured Israel for its attack on Samu in Jordan.
Res 237 (June 14, 67): Urged Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.
Res 248 (Mar 24, 68): Condemned Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.
Res 250 (Apr 27, 68): Called on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.
Res 251 (May 2, 68): Deeply deplored Israel's military parade in Jerusalem and declared invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as its capital.
Res 256 (Aug 16, 68): Condemned Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation'.
Res 259 (Sep 27, 68): Deplored Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.
Res 262 (Dec 31, 68): Condemned Israel's attack on Beirut airport destroying the entire fleet of Middle East Airlines.
Res 265 (Apr 1, 69): Condemned Israel for air attacks on Salt in Jordan.
Res 267 (July 3, 69): Censured Israel for administrative acts to change status of Jerusalem.
Res 270 (Aug. 26, 69): Condemned Israel for air attack on villages in southern Lebanon.
Res 271 (Sep 15, 69): Condemned Israel's failure to comply with UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Res 279 (May 12, 70): Demanded withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Res 280 (May 19, 70): Condemned Israeli attacks against Lebanon.
Res 285 (Sep 5, 70): Demanded immediate Israeli troop withdrawal from Lebanon.
Res 298 (Sep 25, 71): Deplored Israel's change of status of Jerusalem.
Res 313 (Aug 8, 72): Demanded Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Res 316 (June 26, 72): Condemned Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Res 317 (July 21, 72): Deplored Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted from Lebanon.
Res 332 (Apr 21, 73): Condemned Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Res 337 (Aug 15, 73): Condemned Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Res 347 (Apr 24, 74): Condemned Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Res 425 (Mar 19, 78): Called on Israel to withdraw its forces unconditionally from Lebanon.
Res 427 (May 3, 78): Called on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Res 444 (Jan 19, 79): Deplored Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peace forces.
Res 446 (Mar 22, 79): Determined Israeli settlements as a 'serious obstruction' to peace, and called on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions.
Res 450 (June 14, 79): Called on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Res 452 (July 20, 79): Called on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Res 465 (Mar 1, 80): Deplored Israel's settlements and asked all member States not to assist Israel's settlement programme.
Res 467 (Apr 24, 80): Condemned Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Res 468 (May 8, 80): Called on Israel to rescind illegal expulsion of two Palestinian Mayors and a Judge, and to facilitate their return.
Res 469 (May 20, 80): Strongly deplored Israel's failure to observe the Council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Res 471 (June 5, 80): Expressed deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Res 476 (June 30, 80): Reiterated that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'.
Res 478 (Aug 20, 80): 'Censured in the strongest terms' Israel for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'basic law'.
Res 484 (Dec 19, 80): Declared it imperative Israel re-admit two Palestinian mayors.
Res 487 (June 19, 81): Strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Res 497 (Dec 17, 81): Decided Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demanded that Israel rescind its decision forthwith.
Res 498 (Dec 18, 81): Called on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Res 501 (Feb 25, 82): Called on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Res 508 (June 6, 82): Demanded Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and un-conditionally from Lebanon.
Res 515 (July 29, 82): Demanded Israel lift its seige of Beirut and allow in food.
Res 517 (Aug 4, 82): Censured Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demanded Isreal withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Res 518 (Aug 12, 82): Demanded Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Res 520 (Sep 17, 82): Condemned Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Res 573 (Oct 4, 85): Condemned Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO Headquarters.
Res 587 (Sep 23, 86): Took note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urged all parties to withdraw.
Res 592 (Dec 8, 86): Strongly deplored the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Res 605 (Dec 22, 87): Strongly deplored Israel's policies and practices denying human rights of Palestinians.
Res 607 (Jan 5, 88): Called on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requested it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Res 608 (Jan 14, 88): Deeply regreted that Israel had defied the UN and deported Palestinian civilians.
Res 636 (July 6, 89): Deeply regreted the Israeli deportation of Palestinians.
Res 641 (Aug 30, 89): Deplored Israel's continuous deportation of Palestinians.
Res 672 (Oct 12, 90): Condemned Israel for violence against Palestinians at Jerusalem's Haram Al-Sharif.
Res 673 (Oct 24, 90): Deplored Israel's refusal to cooperate with the UN.
Res 681 (Dec 20, 90): Deplored Israel's resumption of deportation of Palestinians.
Res 694 (May 24, 91): Deplored Israel's deportation of Palestinians and called on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Res 726 (Jan 1, 92): 'Strongly condemned' Israel's decision to resume deportation of Palestinians from 'Palestinian territories... including Jerusalem.'
Res 799 (Dec 19, 92): Deplored Israel's mass deportation of some 400 Palestinians and called for thir immediate return.
I could go on, but I haven't got all day.
Israeli policy is THE problem, and the whole world knows it.
(10) Should the U.S. adopt a more "even-handed" approach to Arab and Israeli relations?
The occupation of Palestine continues unabated,
where Ariel Sharon appears to be pursuing a policy of destroying everything of value to the people. The relentless assaults, which have included the assassination of Palestinians who are "suspected" of terrorist acts, carried out with F-16s and Apache helicopters, often including demolishing homes that are occupied by family members, have appalled and horrified the civilized world -- yet the Bush administration does next to nothing. Is it any surprise that the Arab world despises our own government?
--From Jim Fetzer's 20 Questions for Norm Coleman
News flash Dennis, there is no Palestine.
Dennis's concern for the Palistinians is probably more genuine than most of the Arab world's.
Countries around the region have been herding and shuffling them for years. From what I've heard, they are treated horrendously in Lebanon.
Heaven help them if they are ever driven out of the West Bank and into the hands of their Muslim bretheran who use their supposed concern for them as a way to show their hatred of Israel.
THE TIME FOR RESISTANCE IS NOW
11,500 people marched against the proposed Iraq war in Portland, Oregon, yesterday.
1.5 million took to the streets in Italy.
Australians demonstrated their opposition in large, spirited numbers the day before.
Today will see additional rallies elsewhere, with still more tomorrow.
Letters to newspaper editors and calls to House and Senate offices are running almost exclusively, massively against Bush's stated intention.
Everyone knows there's a double lie driving what would make our country as much of an aggressor as the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor.
It's all about getting at Iraq's oil, and a fabricated fear campaign is being used to hide that reality.
Bush also benefits from war talk pre-empting needed, critical discussion of his failed economic policies, and of the corporate sleaze of Enron-style crony capitalism.
When those in power -- with clear allegiances to the worst special interests -- plod ahead with obviously wrong policies, no matter what...what are the people to do?
We can't let them sacrifice our children (and civilians in several foreign countries) in endless wars undertaken for global dominance.
We can't permit them to pile killing contradiction upon contradiction on our economic future, threatening the complete collapse that's hinted at by a stock market that just can't find a healthy footing.
The only answer is protest, protest, and still more protest: in all forums and venues, and especially in the street.
They've got the military might, but we've got the power of virtually all of humanity saying no to permanent war for imperialistic hegemony and unseemly profit.
Our combined voice is louder than the F-16s and the Apaches.
We can MAKE peace.
Leftist, socialist, communists....I guess you are right we are wrong. You deserve your own nation, or at least your own continent.
Perhaps we can give you China, South America, Africa, Cuba and France??? They can teach America much.
Enron,
if only Africa and France were your teachers.
Hey American you have mentaly sick people in your Senate :-)) LoL or you call a mental hospitals in your country a Senate :-))) LoL
Another ignorant statement from the resident racist Naeem.
BTW The dry cleaner called, your S.S uniform is ready to be picked up.
and they were unable to get the chocolate stains out of your childrens Hitler youth brown shirts.
little boy bush and his gang of incompetent hate(war)mongers loudly thump their chests at the perfidy of so-dumb-insane gassing civilian Kurds. What an diabolical man , they proclaim - so evil we will have to send our 18 and 19 year olds to depose hiam - and help win the elections this year!
Here we have Adolf Sharon and the Israeli mafia killing innocent civilians in Palestine. We suspect Palestinian soldiers have wandered into the midst of civilians and we really think they are terrorists. So we will wipe out all the civilians - say the Naziesque Jews of Israel.
I guess the Israelis will now just sit back and wait for the next suicide bomber from Palestine to vaporize a couple of dozen Jews.
The Arrow missile defence Israel is deploying - paid for with my tax money and the sweat of millions of unemployed, hardworking Americans - how effective is it against the bubonic plague released by a suicide plaguer woth assistance from so-dumb-insane??
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ,
BTW The dry cleaner called, your S.S uniform is ready to be picked up. and they were unable to get the chocolate stains out of your childrens Hitler youth brown shirts.---Luv2Fly
You need to join your senate those dumb asses are desperatly waiting for another moron..:-)))
ZZZZZZZ......
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/10/08/pakistan.missile/index.html
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- Pakistan has successfully test-fired a medium-range nuclear-capable ballistic missile, its second test within five days, defense officials have said.
This is the right way to defend ourselves from bullies of the world like India and Israel and arabs should follow the same path to tackle Israel
Naeem Siddiqui 10/7/02 11:58pm
Naeem,
You're full of hate and a sad excuse for a human being. Bye, Bye.
oh puhleez - Naeem Siddiqui 10/8/02 4:29am-
Pakistan should stick to fighting the AQ - do the job you are paid for.
What the hell have the Arabs done with the Palestinians anyway. Before Israel came into existence, was there a nation of Palestine ? The Syrians, Jordanians have all screwed the Palestinians for centuries. In fact, if one travels to the prosperous Arab states like UAE , the locals despise the Palestinians as menial workers - the same treatment the Turks receive in Germany.
Israel was right to kick the butt of the Arabs - how many times now? It sure is not scared of the puny Arabs any more. If only Israel would make peace with Palestinians , my tax money can go to bettering Americans who sorely need it these days.
Pakis - back to dying for the US in pursuit of AQ.
"This is the right way to defend ourselves from bullies of the world like India and Israel and arabs should follow the same path to tackle Israel."
What way are you referring to?
What is accomplished by these missle test-firings?
Naradar's right. Most of the Arab world doesn't give a damn about the Palistinians. What steps have they taken to broker peace in Israel and help the Palistinians build a home? Do they do anything besides give weapons and fund suicide bombings and exploit the Palistinians as a way to strike at Israel?
If large numbers of Palistianians became refugees they would stand a better chance being welcomed in the United States than among their own neighbors.
Naradar & Rick,
Excellent posts !
you are full of hate religious fanatic who hate 1.2bn muslims of the world and shame for humanity..Ta.. Ta
OH! you Bajrangi from monkey land :-)) LoL
As you belong to a country where your fellow bajrangi moron love to burn alive innocent men, women, children and even unborn babies and consider it as their holy duty by their monkey gods and you are preaching humanity here!!! :-)) LoL
its your country who keep harping and crying to US that we are kicking your butts and have no guts and dare to fight with us despite continious cacophony of war and having an edge on malitry power :-)
you indian keep crying you are born to cry :-))) LoL
You see we are doing what we think right for us we are acquiring WoMD we are arming ourselves b'coz its the only way to defend ourselves from rogue nations like india. and we don't care your Uncle Same who itself have thousands of WoMD and used those weaponse too and wants others not to get these weaponse!!! US has no moral right to ask anyone not to acquire WoMD, first they should destroy their own WoMD and then ask someone else :-)
Pakistan should stick to fighting the AQ - do the job you are paid for.---Naradar
Well! we don't give our air basis and logestic support on charity! offcourse your country can give it on charity to US as they offered after 9/11 without asking by US but your Uncle Sam kicked away your offer :-)) you indian have the eternal habbit of licking the butts of american :-))) LoL
US must pay for all those facilities they are using otherwise these american will be dieing like rats in afganistan as they were in vietnam :-) you know last day afghan tribes killed one more american soldier and injured two....these figures could be 200 and 2000 if we did not help them.
Most of the Arab world doesn't give a damn about the Palistinians. What steps have they taken to broker peace in Israel and help the Palistinians build a home?---Rick.
you are quite right arabs are not doing their job they should provide heavy weaponse like anti aircraft mesiles, tanks, helis, jets e.t.c to palestinian so that palestinian could defend themselves if palestinain would have those weaponse Israel never dare to enter into gaza and west bank and jut shouting and crying with its border.
US is funding and giving heavy weaponse to Israel why not arabs are doing the same for palestinian!!!???
its not the fault of Naradar! its the fault of his origination where people worship monkey and love to convert the people into roast. these kind of ridiculous statements can only be expected from these clue less monkey brained people.
Do NOT refer to other people's Gods as "Monkeys"---bill
I am not refering! Indian do worship monkeys, real and alive monkeys:-)
Naeem, consider yourself warned.
Keep away from the personal attacks or you're out of here.
Maybe Naradar is an Anaheim Angels fan and worships the rally monkey?
ThoseMedallingKids 10/9/02 6:44am- am not a big baseball fan but am rooting for the Twins - underdogs though and Game 1 must have been a fluke.
Naeem Siddiqui 10/9/02 2:54am
heh, heh - yes we Hindus worship what looks like strange Gods. My favorite is the Elephant God. Strange that this faith seems to glue together millions of impoverished and desperate folks. Something to be said about Marx and his religion is the opiate of the masses quip.
And yes , the subcontinent has been ravaged by extremists of all types.
But we in India have a larger Islamic population than Pakistan ( or almost equal) and the Muslims in India do not go flying planes into buildings or asking for the West to be razed into ashes. Reality is that in pockets of India, the Muslims get the crap beaten ot of them .
Islam has been overtaken by extremism and its own clergy and leadersip will have to take their religion back.
The Palestinians however are not waging their war against Israel as a religious war alone - it is a genuine struggle to survive as a people. That is the only aspect I have empathy and sympathy for.
"My favorite is the Elephant God."
Gonesh? He's a popular one isn't he?
I saw a Hindu temple last week, right in the heart of Chinatown in Kuala Lumpur. The Thaipusam pilgirmage begins from there. I could hear the drumming from the street, but I didn't go in. Now I wish I did. I saw a Hindu service in Singapore. Mystical and a bit disconcerting to a westerner.
"it is a genuine struggle to survive as a people. That is the only aspect I have empathy and sympathy for. "
I think genuine struggles require more than victory. You have to hold on to your humanity. Should the Palistinians prevail, their victory will be hollow.
Naeem,
No I don't hate all muslims, just the ones who attack other people's religions or beliefs and call for another holocaust.
But we in India have a larger Islamic population than Pakistan--Naradar
Never claim this in front of your bajrangi fellow countrymen they will burn you alive b'coz they show much lesser figure for muslims in india :-))
Is that a missile silo in your pic?? Do you have the GPS coordinates for it?--apple
its not the messile silo its a historical monument of our founding father Mohammad Ali Jinnah who struggled against British colonialism in subcontinent and liberate our beloved country from British slavery.
there is no need of any GPS coordinates its situated in the world's 4rth largest city Karachi :-)
Last week, as I waited for my flight out of Hong Kong, passengers were boarding an aircraft next to our gate bound for Denpasar.
I was tired and I couldn't recall exactly where Denpasar was. I was reminded over the weekend.
I read in the New York Times over the weekend that before the bombing, Bali had a reputation as a place where Hindus and Muslims lived in harmony. It had a thriving tourist industry.
I guess there are groups of people in this world who cannot accept that. Two hundred people are dead and airlines have added flights because people cannot get out fast enough.
Many of the people I saw getting on the plane were probably heading to Denpasar for a weeks vacation.Hope none of them were hurt in the bombing, but it's certainly possible. I hear there's good surfing, so the Australians probably liked it.
All good things must come to an end, Iguess.
Naeem:
I've been reading your posts over the past few days. It's disheartening.
Pakistan is a troubled nation that is torn by violence and a bitter border conflict. It cries out for enlightened leadership among its young men and women in all segments of society to build its future.
Based on what I read that I hope that among those future leaders will not be the name Naeem Siddiqui.
Prove me wrong.
Pakistan is a troubled nation that is torn by violence and a bitter border conflict.---Rick
Pakistan is not a troubled nation internally. people here are living very peacefully and harmoniously despite the American's war against the muslims of Afghanistan and Iraq. offcourse we have very dengerous border conflict with India, but a country can have bitter border conflicts with a villain neighbours like India, Pakistan have very Good relations with all of its neighbours (middle east countries,Iran, China, Afghanistan and central asian countries) except India! it means the problem is India not pakistan b'coz its India who have bad relations with all its neighbours like Pakistan, China, Bangladesh and Srilanka all these countries are fed up of Indians mischievous attitude.
"Pakistan is not a troubled nation internally. people here are living very peacefully and harmoniously "
Tell that to families of the Christians who have been slaughtered in the last year in Pakistan.
It's not Switzerland. It's time you faced that.
Oh my. And the sky is what color ?
Naw no troubles in Pakistan, that must be why people are clamoring to move there,,,,,,,,well Al Quieda anyways.
Tell that to families of the Christians who have been slaughtered in the last year in Pakistan.---Rick
These are just crimnal actitvities keep happenning in any country, no country on the earth is 100% pure of crimnals not even US or some very prosperious countries in europ. I have read lots of news about US telling a person enter into market and killed many people, an angry student enters into his school and kill many of his teachers and fellows e.t.c
It's not Switzerland ---Rick
you are right! Pakistan is Pakistan its certainly not Switzerland, we are good in our own and we don't need to compare us with any one else!
Oh my. And the sky is what color --- Luv2Fly
as usual blue, some time there is beautfull coulds with lovely rain! winter is comming so the fun of snow fall is also comming! :-)
I have read lots of news about US telling a person enter into market and killed many people....
Yeah but their not being killed simply because of their religion.
The following is about Korea, but the logic can be applied to many other nations....
http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson102502.asp
Yeah but their not being killed simply because of their religion.---THX 1138
Crime is Crime no matter what would be the reason! whether its religion or any other thing.
The following is about Korea, but the logic can be applied to many other nations....----apple
will it not be batter for american to be within their skin and let these countries and their neighbours alone so that they can resolve their issues by themselves either by war or by peace :-) US does nothing good on international issues BUT to furthur complicate the situations for both the people in the region and itself too!
Crime is Crime no matter what would be the reason! whether its religion or any other thing.
Not quite. Was the Naxi Regime merely committing a crime by killing millions of Jews?
US does nothing good on international issues........
We're a nation made up of people just like any other nation. People do make mistakes but people can also do amazing things. To say the US does nothing good on international isues is ignorant at best, plain stupid at worst.