2006 Pioneer Press Treasure Hunt

I've been around here for about six years and have rarely if ever chimed in during arguments, I guess I'm the type of person that hopes things will get better with time, unfortunately it seems like that won't be the case with this one.

First off, I don't envy the position JT has been put in, he should be thanked and commended for what he did after the breakup of pioneerplanet and took the job of "administrator" of us over here.

I have no problem with people starting threads for individual pockets of closer friends, with the growth over the past couple years of this place, it's expected that smaller groups will become closer and the CC as a whole is far to big to try and get everyone on the same page. But when that thread is started with the focus (as is my understanding) to bash people behind their back, I think that's wrong. Like Tim said, I think it could have been handled in other ways (e-gram, e-mail, instant messaging, phone, etc.)

As far as the people in that thread and their disapproval of what people do or say, that's their business, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it seems as though that came from a situation (Zephy) that should have brought everyone closer together. It's a shame that it went down the way it did, but I implore your softer sides to try and talk this thing out and reason with each other.

Between the breakfast club thread, coolertimes.com being whittled down to a mere blank page with "Gratefulness" on it, TC leaving the boards, it seems as though the battle lines have been drawn, but what people are forgetting is there are a lot of people left in the middle who want what's best for all parties and hopefully come to some middle ground on the situation.

 

 

[Edited by on Apr 11, 2005 at 06:03pm.]

So, where do you think it's gonna be next year? I think Battle Creek.

V qb gbb xabj erny cbyvpr. V'z sebz Fg. Cnhy naq Pngubyvp. V xabj n guveq bs gur sbepr...va bar jnl be nabgure.

...abg yvxr gung Xvgpu naq Vna.:)

Fpevor ehyrf.

Are we supposed to be able to decipher this, or are you two just throwing random letters out there?

 

They are clues!!!

[Edited by on Apr 11, 2005 at 06:57pm.]

sammy joe

yikes...I can't even get a joe right..

V ubarfgyl guvax V'z fghpx va gur zvqqyr bs nyy guvf...uru...bu jryy...V'z whfg tbvat gb tb jvgu gur sybj...

I know how 2 do that....ha

ttyl ESD.....I know you will leave for a long time...but I think nobody that is addicted like us can leave for good..

I'm expecting others to post the same thing that ESD posted....

the sad part is the people that really don't know what's going on...or feel like they are in the middle....are the one's that are going to disappear...

DWYTD or RTD and othr chppd up sntces jst to mke sum idbtr py a bll tht he dsnt wnt to evn tlk abt....hck mybe psh D 2 his mmmy 4 hlp

[Edited by on Apr 11, 2005 at 08:11pm.]

What's with the jibberish, is there someplace to translate these?

my last post it from years of "bill collector" typing...its what has really screwed me up from my English and Spelling skills.....its why both me and payme type almost the same style....

Can I buy a vowel?

Taking your regular english and squishing it to the smallest amount of letters.....I knew i was going back to school for a reason:)

oh. deer.
Nobody around here dislikes me enough to be mean to me. *sniff*
Pout, whine.
I guess I don't click. Crap, I guess I'll go eat corn.

[Edited by on Apr 11, 2005 at 08:56pm.]

You suck, KT.

feel better? ;)

p.s. I was kidding, in case the winky face didn't make that clear. :)

Here's someone who doesn't care for you KT

 

I LOVE MISFITS!

ding ding...round 4

 

OH...I hate to bring this up...but it kinda erks me.....

how in the world is the "BC" going to toss the word lurker around???

who in the BC is showing their name on the sides?

 

BC- British Columbia? Burping cantaloupe? Blue Canaries?

 

Joe

Anyone that tells me they're not having private conversations is a liar.

well....I got a feeling its going to happen more now then ever...since people will "shy" away from saying things...knowing that somebody is talking about them behind their back and not knowing who to trust....

ME? I don't give a rat's ass what people think...but...I've never had the guts to post my serious life issues....I give those credit that do...all they are looking for is a shoulder to lean or cry on....and for that I give them credit.

I find it amazing that people expect me to explain myself for talking with friends about people and situations in a private place.

I'm not going to do that.

If you have read/have the thread then you already know the whys and the how comes. If you find the need to ask more questions then you obviously haven't been paying attention or are skipping certain parts ;)
(understandable for some).

Speaking to the word Hypocrite -

Considering some of those very same people were the first to jump on me for talking about PRIVATE matters in a public place during the last big blow up here it's kinda neat to see the reversal on that stance. I also find it curious how certain people in this same crowd talking up this private thread found it possible to communicate while they were discussing issues in the past concerning me and all the evil intentions I was having with Coolertimes. God forbid they used PF..... would hate to think that people were using this tool of communication for that purpose. God forbid people be using Egrams to feed other info about things they don't know anything about during PRIVATE matters. For those of you who have had the pleasure of reading "the thread" I'm quite sure you can read the date the thread was started. If you read all the way back to that date then you know all you should need to know. As to making up lies about people? What sense would that make...... It's a private thread... like a private conversation. Lies to friends that go nowhere... that makes no sense. But then if I have to explain it to you then you probably didn't get it in the first place.

-------------------------------------

Coolertimes is down because I refuse to waste anymore time or money on it. Understanding that there is a middle ground in this group made that a hard choice. For them I am sorry... I will have all the pictures stored and be happy to share with those who ask.

For over the past year without complaintand without ever coming in to PF and asking you all directly for money I have paid 40 bucks a month to keep that site up and running. There has been one member of this crew who has contributed to me directly and that was OT at this years Pre Dig. For that I thanked her. But I've never worried or complained about the cost because it was my way of giving to the cause.

Someone found time to question my site. To question me about it's place in the crew.

Lets talk about Judgment-

To address those who have been critics and accused me of using coolertimes for some evil purpose I will say only this - Thats not a Cooler Crew website and it never has been. It's a personal website run by a cooler head about a group of people I came to admire and enjoy talking with last year. It was a place that got you everywhere else you needed to go for hunt and winter carnival related stuff.

It's my money (minus OT's contribution), my time and my resources that went into that site. If you had a problem with it or you didn't like something about it..... it's pretty simple.. Screw you......

If people have some sort of self confidence issue and can't handle the situation I'm not going to apologize for it anymore. You would think someone was trying to topple an fortune 500 company around here with all the BS I was hearing my direction. I'm not exactly sure what those of you who found the need to even discuss the site and it's purpose thought I was getting out of working on that site.

I love to hunt... that would be why you would see me out in the parkyou could find me getting clues and you would run into me out eating and drinking with friends..... Then I would rush back home update info or clues or anything else that people wanted updated.

Trust me... there was never any personal gain. Those of you who think that there was should think about it again.

I'm not going to apologize for talking to my friends who supported me on a personal level in a private place. I'm not going to say I'm sorry for talking about people and situations that every one here has themselves done. You would be amazed at some of the things people would talk about in the coolertimes chat room..... Even more amazed at the
peoplethat were discussed in that chartroom. Or even the conversations that one has when they are a little bit drunk at a place like the rockin lobster about others in this group. I think the rest of you need to consider what you have said and when you said it before you come charging after other people for doing the same thing.

We all know everyone in this group is perfect and never done anything that others would consider bad or morally corrupt.. right?

JT has been more then fair in his dealings with people in the PF. That goes for both here and the political threads. That does not mean that he is obligated to not have a place away with friends to discuss things. He doesn't OWE anyone anything.

If you want hang with me.. great.... If you don't..... Thats your choice. I won't criticize you for it. It's a big world and amazingly enough it's ok not to like everyone as others have pointed out well before any of this stuff happened.

It was a private thread and private things were said. You decided to read them.

[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Apr 12, 2005 at 07:54am.]

I think one of the largest misunderstandings here is that it was not set up specifically to talk about people. It was set up for a way for us to just chat. The majority of posts are part of normal conversation like discussing me going to school, G scanning pictures, whatever. THX is right. People vent their frustrations, not one person here can tell me different. It is by phone, IM, egram, whatever, why is it ok to do that but not use a thread. what is the difference? For the record, and this goes to those in the "clique" as well. I have thanked everyone who has supported me through the whole tc and ares situation. Please do not feel that you have to pick sides. If you are not involved dont be. There are people here I dislike, there are people here I dont know very well. But I would love to be able to see everyone from time and again. I am sorry the things you read offended you, they were personal thoughts and feelings that were not meant for you. Kind of like reading someone’s diary.

I am not part of whatever "clique" and don't know what all the hubub is about.

But I am sad to see that Coolertimes is down. I can't tell you how fun it was to look at all the pics of Zephy being carted around town during the Carnival. We had many laughs over those! And we would not have gotten to know the whole story about Zephy without the Coolertimes. It was also fun to see pictures of Cooler Heads.

I really hope you or someone will bring the Coolertimes back! As far as I'm concerned, the more Cooler stuff out there for those of us who love the hunt and like the hunters, the better.

I'm sure most of this will be taken out of context and slammed in further posts, but since no one's saying it, I will:

 

I for one, take that as an apology from Pay Me and gladly accept for what was said about me personally.

 

Also, I think OTS is directly indicting me when he mentions the earlier thing that he released to the general audience and I dinged him for it.  He's right, I did, and I'll say this, we're both right and both wrong here.

 

I, for one, was VERY ticked when I heard that OTS and Pay Me were holding on to the Iraq booty.  But, both of them have served overseas and I haven't.  both of them have extensive experience sending and recieving things internationally, and I haven't.  And, when I thought about how much was sent, and that I only put a little into the sendin' pot, figured that they'd be spending a bunch to do it on their own, so I really shouldn't tell them how to spend their money.  Furthermore, as I thought more about it, I thought that since the people with experience doing this had a good point about things not getting there in a full fashion all the time, the idea of sending things a few at a time made pretty good sense to me.  And, if I were on the recieving end, wouldn't it be fun to get a new box from my friends every couple of weeks.

Did OTS and Pay Me do a very nice, philanthropic thing, with no real prompting? Yes.

Should they be lauded for it? Yes.

Over and over ad nauseam? no. 

Why? because philanthropy is it's own reward.

Should OTS and Pay Me have made their plan VERY clear earlier? Yes.

Did they? I can't say for sure, other than I didn't know it, and if we're monday morning quarterbacking, the answer would be probably not.

When it became known that things had not been shipped, did we (the overall group) deserve an explanation? Yes.

--just as a note, my understanding here (and my recollection) was a number of corporations were involved in the giving of these items, and people as well, and wanted to know if the stuff that they donated got there.--

Did we recieve a good explanation? Yes.  Also No.

--going ONLY off my memory here, but what I remember by way of explanation was "We want to make sure that the majority of it gets there so we're sending the important stuff first." (truncated, obviously, I'm going for the gist here)

Was it right for OTS and Pay Me to make a value judgement of "important stuff?" No.

Did OTS and Pay Me make a value judgement of "important stuff?"  Only they know for sure, but my opnion is NO.

Was what they really meant "We're sending toiletries and stuff first, and goodies second?"  YES.

Did they choose their words carefully? No.

Did they deserve the reaction they got? No.

Did it snowball from there out of control? Yes.

Should they continue to be villified for their part? No.

Ultimately, if you ask me, OTS and Pay Me did a really nice thing, but had a plan on how to do it that they really didn't make blatantly known until after the fact. (THIS IS NOT A BAD THING, JUST AN ERROR IN JUDGEMENT THAT NO ONECOULD HAVE ANTICIPATED.)  The key word there is blatantly - with a big group like this if only a couple of people know it's not enough.  Then there were a number of miscommunications as to why questions were asked, logistics and hurt feelings involved, and it really wasn't deserved.

OTS and Pay Me need to realize that positions of leadership involve taking hits sometimes, and everyone else needs to realize that they stepped up and you didn't with respect to doing this particular project, and get off their back.

 

Now, as for the differences between coolercrew.com and coolertimes.com, again, lot of hurt feelings and from what I can imagine, a lot of bruised egos.  Personally, I think in concert, the general public had both sides of the circle - together they were (are) really something, separately, they were (are) pretty neat.

1.  There were duplicated efforts and information.

2.  Each place had unique cool things that the other one doesn't (or didn't, as the case may be.)

 

Here's what I think is really important:  Both of these guys did really neat things for the group, and they should be commended for it.  Both of these guys spend a lot of time and a lot of money to keep those things alive and functioning at a high level, and for their efforts, they should be commended.

Are they owed gratitude?  Sure, to a point.  Speaking on behalf of everyone, Thanks guys, for your hard work, dedication to the group and the time and money that you spend to construct a unifying thing for the whole of us.

Are they owed continuing gratitude? No.

See, I'm pretty sure that both of them have what I would deem to be the correct attitude of "Well if you don't like it, what would you do differently?" and are more than willing to listen to constructive ideas.  If I had any, I'd share.

But what the both of them are doing wrong, I think, is being pissy because of the other factors in their involvement in the group make them wonder why they're doing it.  Can they do that? sure.  Should they? I don't think so.  See, again, when you try to put yourself in a position of leadership, you can't expect everyone to constantly genuflect because you have.  Leadership is hard, occasionally you take dings.

 

Is it right to take the other people down, or block them, because of personal issues?  Yes and no.  Certainly the payer has the right to pay for what they want, but don't they have a larger social responsibility to the group?  I think so.  Shouldn't they think of the group first, despite their own financial outlay?

I'm not going to answer that, and I would ask that when this posting of mine gets taken out of context and I get slammed for all of this, defense of both people doesn't get posted ad nauseum, on this subject or any subject. It's a question for two people, and the two know who they are.  Those of you that know too, leave the question as an unanswered one.

See, the problem I see is that if you really do something for the group, great, that makes you a big part of the group.  But if one of the group ticks you off, for whatever reason, don't take your ball and go home.  ALSO, if someone is doing the same kind of thing that you're doing for the group as a whole, and you don't like it, because it interferes with what you've done, maybe working together on 1 great thing instead of two good things is a better idea.  Then it's a group effort.  But don't just complain about it.  Do something. 

If you want to have an ego for something you do then don't offer it in the context of a personal sacrifice that you're making for the group.  Personal sacrifice means you don't get credit for it.  And if you volunteered, and don't like it, then get out of it.  It's why it's called being a volunteer: you don't depend on it for money.

 

Now, with respect to what is now being known as the clique: I think one of the things that Pay Me said in her above post really rings true:  that what was said in that forum really wasn't for public consumption, it was like reading a diary.  I think that's true, and I'll take it as such.  Certainly you (all) are entitled to your opinion, and can and should say whatever you want.  Respectfully I'd say to you is the problem with the written word is that it's always going to be out there, and that's certainly magnified with respect to the Internet. 

  Take me for example.  I wrote something on this site, posted it, thought better of it,  deleted it, and someone who saw it re-posted it for everyone to see.  Should I have written that?  Well, I suppose you can say it's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, and I can share it with whomever I want.  but in retrospect, it was mean on my part and I wanted to take it down, so I did.  Should it have been re-posted?  My opinion is No, absoutely not - but it's my own damn fault for posting it in the first place.

I think to be fair, those *in the know* with respect to what's in the "diary" should take it as such, as a diary amongst friends and realize that while it was mean, it was amongst a group that we are not a part of.   I, for one, took Pay Me's apology at face value and won't think more of it.

 I think to be fair, those who had a hand in writing it, while it's fair to say that it was amongst friends, and was in, a diary, and private, should realize a couple of things:  First, no person is directly at fault for it getting out - it was just a bad bad coincidence that it did.  Second, while the diary analogy is true, I would ask (again, not to be answered here) that you consider not the one thing that was written, not the one post, but the entire volume of things that were written, and imagine what you would feel if you were confronted with that information.  It's not the one entry, in the diary, it's the 30 diaries staring you in the face that gets people bent out of shape.

 

Finally, a few words in defense of my friend, Mystical Musik:  To be fair, she is not wildly intelligent - she would lose horribly if she were on jeapoardy (and yes, I can't spell that word so don't bother making fun of me for it)

  But so what?  I'm no genius (they can spell jeapoardy)  Certainly those that think her posting is stupid or annoying aren't either.  See, the value of this on-line posting forum is that you don't have to read it.  if you don't like it, don't look at it. SKIP IT!  You can even block her postings so you don't have to read it.  But to tell her she's annoying and you don't like reading her stuff just means that you're not proactive in defense of your own little world.  Just. Don't. Do. It.  Personally, I like her, and while I wouldn't take her to a Mensa convention, she has a heart of gold, she is fiercely loyal, and I am glad to call her my friend.  If you don't like her, that's cool - then don't bother yourself with what she has to say.  There are several people I do that with and it works out great.  I use her as an example - this holds true for everyone: you make your own experience here!  If you don't want Tim the hunter to be  a part of your cooler crew experience, block his posts.  If you don't want Kitch to be a part of your cooler crew experience, then don't. Hell, if you don't want me to be a part of it, as I'm sure will be dramatically demonstrated in the coming hours and posts, that's cool too.

 

I've had enough here.  the reasons phones exist is so you when things are misconstrued in writing you can clarify.  These last several months have been one giant misunderstanding after another, and all people involved are largely content to keep down the same path, instead of wondering how we got here in the first place. I'll probably take the same path as ESD and just not bother anymore.  This is my fun, and it's not fun.

 

I imagine people will read this, start cutting and pasting a line or two and write a blistering response.  Go ahead.  but I only ask you read the whole thing and read everything in context.  There's nothing that's been fair to anyone since January.  And I for one have had enough.

 

Stephanie, thanks for your apology.  I apologize for calling you Lady MacBeth.

These are my own words and I sign with my own name.

 

Trygve

 

Otis, Payme, I want to start out by saying that I have nor have I EVER had any beef with the 2 of you. What goes on between you guys, Sue and Jason is between the 4 of you. I've always considered the 2 of you as friends, and as far as I know neither one of you has said anything behind my back. If you have.. oh well what can I do about it. If not, I thank you for it.

2nd, I owe everyone in the crew an apology. I'm not sorry for the way I feel about the current situation, but I'm sorry for the way I acted and what I said. I was angry, I guess I never thought that ppl would talk about me because I never did anything for that to happen.  I guess I just expected a little more maturity for lack of better words.

When I joined the Cooler Crew, I joined because I felt that it was the most welcoming non judgemental group of people I had ever met. Having being judeged my whole entire life for one thing or another it was a breath of fresh air. I no longer feel that way. I do no expect everyone to like me, nor do I try to make everyone like me. I don't ask for anything, noone owes me anything, all I ask is that I be treated respectfully, and not as an outcast.

You cannot blame me for feeling the way I feel, because anyone would feel hurt, and upset knowing that people they considered as friends were talking behind their backs, about stupid stuff and for stupid reasons. I don't want to fight with anyone any more. If you want to judge me and/or dislike me because of some stupid posts then so be it. If you want to take the time and actually get to know the person that I am, more power to you.

For the record Ots, I never put down the coolertimes website. I thought it was a great site and that you put a lot of time and effort into it. I would've contributed, and I still can, just at the time we were having financial difficulties.  Things are going a lot better now which is definately a plus.

It doesn't matter how big the group is, there's no reason why people can't all get along. Noone said that everyone has to be buddy buddy, but there's no excuse to exclude one person or another. Everyone says this is a welcoming group.. so we should all act like one, otherwise ditch that title, because it's wrong.

Tim, THX, I am sorry for the things that I said. I'm willing to step up to the plate and be a better person. I don't expect an apology from either one of you, so don't feel obligated. I can see things from both of your points of view I only hope that you can see things from mine, and maybe we can all get along and put this all behind.

I think Kitch said it well that people expose things from their private lives because they're looking for a friend, someone to listen. That is why I choose to express certain things. If they're annoying to you or stupid that's your choice to think that. I can't make you think otherwise nor would I try. I don't ask for much, only that everyone will be willing to give me the benefit of the doubt, and if you don't know me, at least try and get to know me. THEN pass a judgement. Otherwise, don't judge a book by it's cover.

Again, I'm sorry to everyone for the things that I said. This will be the last that I say about it. I want to move on and get over this issue, and I know there's quite a few others who want to do the same thing. Thank you.

Damn me to hell and back, but I have NO clue what any of this is about,or how/where it began- but curiosity is grabbing my leg and pulling me down. I will therefore skip over all the stuff, and wait until cooler posts show up.
Peace

OMG...why do you guys do this to me...right at 5pm......this is 2 days in a row!!!

bb at 930ish...

Trygve and MM thank you both for saying what you just said.... I'm trying not to rush my responses in order to keep my thoughts clear.....

But I will say that Red Bears effort to look at things from all sides has given me a reason to step up to the table.....

Let me first say... for me personally..... I agree with Red Bear... alot of things got taken out of context from the begining of all of this.

There have been misunderstandings on top of misunderstandings and you can tell that sometimes people just grow tired of trying to explain and explain again.....

I believe this has been the case for many of us.

[Edited by on Apr 12, 2005 at 03:18pm.]

I couldn't agree more. I don't want to fight with anyone any more, but if we can't get along, at least be civil and treat each other with some respect.

well said Tryg MM and OTS

I am in the process of writing yet another long post. It will be a little bit.

I want to say thank you Redbear.  Your apology is also accepted.  I appreciate your breakdown of all angles!

Thank you as well MM.

 

Funnel effect

I was very impressed by Trygve's post so I'll say this...

I think everyone's felt this way for a long time but unfortunately some kicking and screaming had to come out before things calmed down. We all had to throw our own temper tantrums and people do that. Honestly I don't think people really need to apologize because it happens. You say what you need to say and you gotta get the shit out before better stuff can come along, and I believe if you don't get mad, you can't move on. So as much as it sucked for all of those fun loving people like KT, it had to happen. And now that it has, I think we're moving towards being a better group. I don't expect a group hug or anything, but I think now at least we can respect each other's differences a little more. I can't say something like this won't happen again because it may, because as it was said, miscommunication runs rampant around here because of it being in writing and not in voice, but hopefully it'll come to a conclusion faster in the future and hopefully off the boards.

Is it finally group hug time?

Grandpa Dan... we might be on the right track.

[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Apr 12, 2005 at 05:42pm.]

Good. It has already cost us a great website, some good people left here, some couldn't show up to meet Zeph even though they wanted to but were afraid of things getting out of hand, etc. I hope it is finally over before what little that is left finishes self-destructing.

[Edited by on Apr 12, 2005 at 05:58pm.]

Having opportunity, and not taking it, I never read "the diary". It is none of my business, regardless of what may have been said about me or my friends.I agree that it is like a diary, and I want no part of it. On that note, I understand how talking things out can lead to resolution. Maybe this was just one of the first stepping stones. Unfortunately, it appears that that first stone was mountainous...

We had a big group that I hung out with in High School... I detested about 60% of them, but you'd never know it. I never talked behind their backs, never got in their face in public, I never had to. And if they did about me, oh well... they are entitled to their own opinion. I didn't care. With a large group like we have here, you can just not talk to them. There are plenty of people to go around, not everyone is gonna get along, you just realize that and go on with your own life.

As much as I have been told that I am not a part of what has happened, I am not too blind to see that it would not have happened without some generosities being bestowed upon me. I am very appreciative for all that has been done to/for me, and the other troops that I feel that I had represented. I was king of the world for quite awhile. It pains me very much to see what kind of situation unfolded from something so good. I am sorry that it has happened, and that being (yes I am)in the middle of it all somewhere, that I don't have a good solution. It has blown way past me as being the focal point.

All in all, it is like the OJ trial. I did not watch all 360 some odd days of the trial, so I cannot make a fair judgement on him himself. I have not been in the "know" of all that has happened here, so I cannot make a good decision one way or the other on this, nor will I, since I have not ALL of the information. Nor do I really feel that I am intended to be a part of the mess we ended up with.

So, accept my big warm fuzzy hug to any who welcome it. On both sides, since as in any other situation, I am sure that there are wrongs and rights on both sides.

Man, I hate these posts... I just wanted to contribute something, since I feel so much apart of what is going on... and what is not, but should be.

Smile... it is the beginning of happiness...

Amen.

did somebody say group hug??

I'm all for that!!!

Great posts everyone! RedBear and MM, thank you for your well thought out points. They are honest and taken by me respectfully.

I agree with everything said this evening, and that doesn't happen often.:)

I apologize for our bad judgment in putting our conversation on the web. Some things in there I feel justified about but a few things I do not. Personal attacks are always difficult to justify and there is no way I can ,with good conscience, do that. Please know that those things were said honestly in the moment and were said privately to NOT cause harm. It is never good to keep things bottled up and it is normal for close friends to vent with one another, however I am sorry it was made public. Honestly, if I had that big of a problem with any of you I would have said it to you personally. Anyone who has really known me for any length of time knows that. Are there times when people are irritating here? Sure, but I include myself in that as well. I am sure that many things have been said about me over the years...hell, some of them may be true! I really am fine with that, but I realize that I have a tougher skin than most. For those that felt personally attacked by reading that thread, I am very sorry. It was never meant to be public, but I cannot deny what was said. I can, however, point out that it was only situational and has long since passed. As for my debate plotting, yes, I do that and will continue to do so. It is after all what I will do for a living someday and is NEVER personal. I actually appreciate a good argument and respect people that can hold on to a particular side of an issue even if I don't agree. So be warned, I may bait you if I think I can debate with you respectully ( and yes, I will have my thesaurus and try to take you down linguistically:) Overall, I actually think this is a blessing in disguise that this has happened, not for the unintentional hurt feelings it caused, but for a deeper understanding of ourselves as imperfect human beings.

[Edited by on Apr 12, 2005 at 08:24pm.]

well...since we are all saying sorry's....
I'm not going to go into some long post....cuz well..I will even bore myself...

but I gotta admit...I'm a big time passive aggressive person online at times......not a good thing....

sorry

It's cool with me Kitch, That's one of the things I love about you!:)