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I still don't get why RB wants to move along while Tim wants to address it. I would think that RB would want it addressed more than anything.

No. This apparently happened well after THX jumped ship.

From egrams sent to me by OT...

started with. "Greetings from the wrong side of a hospital bed"

Things that annoy me thread

This whole thing started because someone edited Redbear's post about his mom having cancer. It was deleted. And he felt really bad that no one had mentioned or wished her well. Then he saw that it had been deleted. That's one of the reasons he left here.

Tim likes to stir up crap. Obviously PayMe wants to know and she may be egging Tim not they sysop forward.

Is it me or does anyone else wonder why RB wouldn't have made a huge stink about a deleted post before leaving here? He's not exactly the most reserved person. Did OT say she saw it too? Or was she just relaying what RB told her. Other than ares, who else?

And Redbear's Mom is doing okay and others have spoken with him about his Mom outside these boards. I think for him, he's satisfied that people do care about things that happen to him just as they care about what happens with most of us.

That's good to hear anyway.

Part of his egram to me when he left...

But I've spent the last couple of years trying to beat other people or to be part of a group that doesn't really want me to be a part of it.

I think what you're trying to do with the rules is a good thing - and I think there's an element of people who have nothing to do in their lives but critize it all and those who try to keep everyone happy.

There are so many people with so much free time and such arrogance that they'll always beat down the good people.

And I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

But he's gotten past that...thankfully.

Seems to me we either tell Steph that we can't get the information or we bribe Tim the sysop to find it for us.

I think someone has an idea of the time and date...but that's something I don't have.

RB would need to tell us that info if we're even thinking on moving forward.

Redbear I think at the time was giving up. He didn't go to the PDG, he didn't feel it was worth the money to pay to post here and deal with stuff. Things have changed though, and I think he senses it. To him I think he feels it's changed for the better. I think PayMe is kind of like Tim, where she's hoping that if we find information that it will help deflect criticism from her husband and help him make a little bit better. Or even for his own sake, help him feel a bit better.

and that's ultimately why i told tim that if he was that concerned he ought to go searching himself.

fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me? :smile:

no the thing that caused the issue between me and tim was because of tim's response saying "i see nothing but good news here" when redbear said he wasn't going to pay to post here. starting here: Redbear, "Things You Really Enjoy" #2479, 5 Jan 2006 3:14 pm. that post certainly still exists, as does kitch's post 3 below it stating "some really crappy news in here!!", and tim's "i've seen only good news". it had nothing to do with a missing post from redbear.

well, i for one know i saw it. i didn't respond to it because he told sue and i about it on the phone days before posting it here.

I'm willing to bet its in one of the many MysticalMusic threads that was deleted....but this is just MHO.

its mho as well, kitch.

you're probably right about steph. but i don't recall seeing anyone anywhere implicate dan in the deleted post.

So then, what do we want and what can we do about all this?

And if we decide to ask Tim the sysop about helping, what do we bribe him with?

If we let this stay the way it is, knowing we can't figure it out, what do we say to Steph?

Lots of questions - no answers.

I do however, have some gut reactions to this stuff.

1. This will haunt us - you can count on it.

2. I don't really want to know who deleted the post - but if it was OTS, what then? It makes it worse in the long run.

3. If it was someone else, I don't want to think about it but here goes.

3a. If it was Redbear - it was his post and so be it.

3b. If it was one of us, our number will be down to 4.

3c. If it was OTS, do we make that public knowledge? I would prefer not to do so as it doesn't do anything to promote better times here. But by telling Steph, nothing is gained and why do that to them?

Sorry for all the random thoughts. It must be that kind of day.

My thought is that if he was guilty of one, some people might think him guilty of both.

only if we let it.

my personal opinion, like i've said before is that we ought to lock the thread with a final statement on the matter that says we're not going to be investigating it further and that attempts to bring it up elsewhere will be considered inciteful and consequences will be dealt for it. i would tend to agree that redbear should be the one calling for the investigation in the matter, but he's not, and since he's letting it drop, so should we, by force if absoultely necessary.

of course, and this is something that's irritated me from our days at pf too, i'm of the opinion that within a week of the conclusiton of all festivities surrounding any given hunt, the threads regarding that hunt should be closed. it keeps people from having to chase flags, and it makes an archiver's job easier :smile:

and tmk, thanks for sending that egram to esd. 'twas out of line on his part.

we got lucky that blew over...(esd's graphic)

at least I hope it did.

I'd say it's about dang time something was lucky!

possibly, but the way i look at it is that none of us, ots included, really had any incentive to remove that post. which is why i still hold under suspicion that it was never under the ccrc in the first place.

What all was contained in that post? Just about his Mom or additional things?

And if we decide to ask Tim the sysop about helping, what do we bribe him with?

well, i'd imagine cm's got a lot of leftover schnapps from the short hunt..... :wink:

If we let this stay the way it is, knowing we can't figure it out, what do we say to Steph?

the same thing that i said over in the bear hunt thread. that it can't be done.

1. This will haunt us - you can count on it.

only if we let it.

2. I don't really want to know who deleted the post - but if it was OTS, what then? It makes it worse in the long run.

exactly. nothing good would come from knowing whether or not he deleted it.

3a. If it was Redbear - it was his post and so be it.

and he owes the group a big ass apology for it.

just his mom's breast cancer.

I don't care how long this goes...

I'm amazed that I missed a post like that...I know if I read it I'd remember it...and I'd see it in seconds if it happened when I was at work.

How do I miss posts?? well..only way is this.

1) happened outside of 8-5

2) happened in a thread that I don't have access 2.

3) happened in a thread I have don't subscribe to..which is almost impossible

4) happened in mass "egrams"

5) redbear thought he posted it..(but others claim to have seen it) (RIGHT???)

am I wrong on 5...did somebody say they saw it????

If it did hapeen between 1am and 6am...otis is a prime suspect..but that is because its the only time a post would go unnoticed for a period of time...and he is online...

this is why I think it was outside for the CC threads.

this is why I think it was outside for the CC threads.

you and me both, kitch. bear thought it was here, i tend to disagree on it.

I just noticed i'm locked out of all the MM (posse) threads

2 bad...I could have searched it....

I gotta go for the day...

going caching

ttyl

You're not locked out - they don't exist anymore.

correct.

Unless I'm locked out too...and I don't think that would happen as I haven't had any differences with any of them.

So that post would be either in those MM threads that were deleted or in the irritates you thread here from everything we are hearing and thinking.

nah they're gone.

The person who has the information that could really help us narrow things down is Bear, but he wants to move on and isn't really inclined to give the information as to when and where he thinks the post was. We can't really force him to give up the information, can we? If things were turned around where Bear was calling for information from OTS or Payme, would they be inclined to be forced to give the information if they didn't want to? I'd rather not force someone to give information, because I think that looks bad on our part. We're trying to be stern on things but not totally opressive and controlling.

So we could have Sysop Tim go looking for this, but we have no solid idea of where it was and when it was. I imagine that the logs are huge as far as information that he would have to sort through. He's done a lot for us in the past as it is, and I really don't want to send him on a hunt like this. If anything, can we say that we're not going to investigate it because of the lack of a solid lead and the amount of work it would take to find it, but that if they want to approach Tim about it they can? That's their perogative if they want it found, they can try to persuade Tim. I know when Coco and I went to Tim about the Exodus stuff, we went to him as users, not as a moderator.

I also don't know really what will come of it. The remaining mods don't really have a motive to remove something like that. Redbear may look bad, but I think he already looks bad in the eyes of certain people, and finding proof isn't really going to change things a whole lot. Or we'll find out that OTS did it, and that may just make him look even more bad. I tend to believe that it was in the Paul Gleason thread and that it got deleted along with everything else. We have so many threads here that are our own, and there's been more than one occasion where people have posted in the wrong thread.

I like that idea - let them approach Tim the sysop if they choose to do so. We don't need to be involved.

and then what do we do when tim wakes up this morning and isn't appeased that we've done nothing on the matter?

We have done plenty on this matter, as far as discussing. There's limits to what we can do. He just has to accept that we've done what we can and have made a decision on it. He can pursue things further if he wants. He just have to learn to live with not getting his way at times.

1. Reitterate that fact that we cannot trace deleted posts.

2. Inform that anyone who would like to contact the sysop is welcome to do so.

3. Contact Steph by pm to let her know we are sorry, but we can't trace this and any further help would need to come from the sysop.

4. Tell Tim not the sysop to refer to numbers 1 and 2.

beautiful.

I am no longer alone in the office here so I'll be froing more than toing for awhile.

Should we wait for everyone to check in on this before acting on it? Unless Tim not the sysop speaks up again, there isn't any hurry on it.

sure.

I know if I were Tim V I'd refer whomever contacted me about this matter to the host of the folder in question since they are the ones who ultimately get the support anyway. That would be Kitch. I don't think that Tim V would like to be hit with PM's from our group without one from us mods first explaining why.

good point.

Excellent point, CM.

So do we run this past Tim the sysop before making any statements to anyone else?

I think ultimately, someone will ask him to look into this. If it's not us, then I would assume either Steph or Tim not the sysop would do so.

It's been quiet. I am assuming the two of them are taking a wait and see what happens stance at this point.

then may i suggest that we do the same?

You mean wait to see what happens?

I think, because Kitch was contacted, there needs to be a reply to her.

It could be simply we are unable to determine who deleted the post as those are not tracked at Able Minds as they were at PF.

Leave it at that and follow up further only if she requests more.

I agree.

I also agree to move the access to the 2006 hunt thread to read only. It keeps things more organized. Plus I have 1182 new messages to go through yet.

     :chagrin:

forgot about that. steph ought to get a response,

ESD just posted the avatar of Tim in the Meats, Eggs and whatever thread.

Me thinks that man likes to stir up trouble now and again.

:: shakes head ::

god i'm glad that's going on over there and not here.